Elon Musk Briefings with fire command team for the Palisades fire.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Elon Musk Thinking – Episode: Elon Musk Briefings with Fire Command Team for the Palisades Fire

Release Date: January 13, 2025

Host: Astronaut Man
Guests:

• Christian Litz (B): Section Chief, LA County Fire
• C and D: Members of the Fire Command Team

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Elon Musk Thinking, host Astronaut Man delves into a critical and timely subject: firefighting efforts during the devastating Palisades fire. While the podcast traditionally focuses on the life and endeavors of Elon Musk, this episode takes a unique turn by providing an in-depth briefing from the frontlines of one of California's most severe fires. Astronaut Man engages with Christian Litz and his team to uncover the intricacies of managing such a large-scale emergency.

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Overview of the Palisades Fire

The episode opens with Astronaut Man introducing the context of the briefing:

Astronaut Man (A) [00:00]: "Fire command team at the Palisades fire. Hey, guys. ... they're going to provide a briefing of the Palisades fire."

Christian Litz (B) provides an initial update:

B [00:28]: "We've been here since the beginning of the fire on Tuesday. We were looking at extreme damaging winds, erratic fire behavior..."

The Palisades fire, characterized by record-breaking winds, posed significant challenges, enabling the fire to spread rapidly from inland areas all the way to the coastline.

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Fire Behavior and Challenges

Christian Litz elaborates on the unpredictable nature of the fire:

B [01:07]: "Honestly, we don't know yet. It's still under investigation. We don't know how it started."

The relentless winds not only fueled the fire but also outpaced the firefighting resources, making containment efforts exceptionally difficult.

B [01:26]: "Because of the wind... it allowed it to outpace anything possible. The winds are so strong. Air resources... ineffective."

The team faced multiple wind shifts, which caused the fire to grow and shift direction unpredictably, complicating containment strategies.

B [02:44]: "The activity is way down. ... with these winds over the next couple days... any new fire, it's going to do the same thing."

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Fire Control Efforts and Strategies

Despite the challenges, the fire command team employed several strategies to manage and contain the blaze:

1. Defensible Space Creation: Creating fire breaks by clearing vegetation to reduce fuel available for the fire.

   B [04:00]: "Along the perimeter we cut... taking everything out down to bare minimum soil."

2. Use of Water Tenders: Deploying large tank water trucks to supplement existing water resources.

   B [11:33]: "We have to bring in water tenders... mobile hydrants."

3. Securing Structures: Emphasizing the importance of protecting homes and infrastructure through:

   • Defensible Space: A clear zone around properties to prevent fire spread.
   • Hardening Homes: Using non-flammable materials and securing potential entry points for embers.

   B [06:04]: "Defensible space... clear brush as low as possible to about 100ft."

The team worked tirelessly, often operating 36 to 48 hours with minimal rest, highlighting the immense dedication required in such crises.

B [02:14]: "We've just been working as hard as we can from beginning to now without any stop, any rest."

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Impact of Historical Fires and Regulatory Responses

D references past fires to underline the importance of updated building codes:

D [09:51]: "1962, we had a fire, it was called the Bel Air fire... after that fire, they outlawed wood-shaped roofs."

Christian Litz discusses the evolution of fire prevention standards:

B [07:50]: "Defensible space, building material... newer things... fire retardant materials... concrete buildings don't burn."

The conversation underscores the necessity of regulatory reforms and updated building materials to enhance fire resistance and protect communities.

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Future Prevention and Community Guidance

The team provides actionable advice for homeowners to minimize fire risks:

1. Establish Defensible Space: Maintaining a 100-foot buffer around properties by removing flammable vegetation.

   B [06:23]: "Building that 100 foot buffer of fuel break around your home."

2. Home Hardening: Utilizing fire-resistant materials and ensuring proper screening to prevent ember intrusion.

   B [07:08]: "Screens around every opening... very small screens."

3. Adoption of Fire-Resistant Materials: Encouraging the use of steel, concrete, and other non-flammable materials in construction.

   D [10:10]: "Update the building standards, the fire code standards..."

The discussion reflects a forward-looking approach to fire safety, emphasizing community resilience and proactive measures.

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Lessons Learned and Concluding Insights

The episode concludes with reflections on the ongoing fire management efforts and the resilience of the firefighting teams:

B [03:20]: "But there is lying around almost all of it. ... almost all of it. ... 10% of the fire where the flames are there, but 90% of the work is done after those flames are gone."

Key takeaways include the importance of preparedness, adaptive strategies in the face of unpredictable fire behavior, and the continuous improvement of fire prevention measures.

Astronaut Man wraps up the episode by acknowledging the dedication of the fire command team and emphasizing the importance of community awareness and proactive measures in preventing future disasters.

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Notable Quotes

• B [01:26]: "The winds are so strong. Air resources... ineffective."
• B [06:04]: "Defensible space... clear brush as low as possible to about 100ft."
• D [10:14]: "That may happen... safer fire zone... safer type of structures."
• B [03:20]: "10% of the fire where the flames are there, but 90% of the work is done after those flames are gone."

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Conclusion

This episode of Elon Musk Thinking offers a rare and insightful glimpse into the challenges and strategies involved in managing large-scale wildfires. Through the expertise of Christian Litz and his team, listeners gain a deeper understanding of fire behavior, the critical importance of defensible space, and the evolving landscape of fire prevention and building standards. The discussion not only highlights the immediate efforts to control the Palisades fire but also emphasizes the long-term measures necessary to enhance community resilience against future wildfires.

For those unfamiliar with firefighting operations, this episode serves as an educational resource, shedding light on the complexities of wildfire management and the unwavering commitment of those who battle these natural disasters.

Transcript

[A]

Fire command team at the Palisades fire. Hey, guys. And let's see. So this is. I was asked if we could bring some more Starlinks here. So we've brought some more Stallings here. And I'm just here with the, the team and they're going to provide a briefing of the Palisades fire. So please go ahead. All right.

[B]

Hello, good evening. My name is Christian Litz. I'm with LA County Fire, cooperating with the partnership with cal Fire Team 2. And I'm operating section chief on this Palisades fire. So Palisades fire. I'll just go. We've been here since the beginning of the fire on Tuesday. We were looking at extreme damaging winds, erratic fire behavior coming through and blowing in from about midway on this map and blowing all the way down to the coastline there.

[A]

When did that. So when does that start? Just to frame the thing for people, like I said, I can assume people like, it's like great to get a story from like, basically like a straight shooter.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And like, you know, and so like, how did it start? And you know, and then maybe after. How did it start then? Like, what are some of the things that can be done to prevent it in the future? But how did it start out? Like, what's the story?

[B]

Honestly, we don't know yet. It's still under investigation. We don't know how it started.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But because of the wind, honestly, it just allowed it to outpace anything possible. The winds are so strong. Air resources, which we use to keep it small, ineffective.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So it blew at record break. It grew at a record breaking pace. Resources put themselves probably in a bigger danger that they've ever done.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Saves as many structures. But you can see it started about here with the wind and pushed it straight through the Palisades. And it allowed it to grow lottery. As the wind slowed down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It allowed it to grow back, go back the other way. But now the wind came back out of the north and blew down again. So we have several wind shifts. Resources are all around trying to both structure the fence, which is down along the coast where the structure is more heavy. We do have communities all along the top.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That we have. We've just been working as hard as we can from beginning to now without any stop, any rest. Resources working 36, 48 hours at times just because of the need of the, of what we had to do. Right now the fire is, is looking good. We still have heat all around the perimeter. We still have resources all over and try to secure those Edges make sure that there is limited the potential for any kind of growth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're still out there, but the activity is way down. And then with these winds over the next couple days, honestly, this fire, we have to watch it, but it's going to blow down, at least most of it into its own self. But any new fire, it's going to do the same thing. We have the winds that's going to push it. It's not as strong as it was on Tuesday, but there is still going to be movement. So we're keeping all the resources available and we're ready to actually not only respond to where the fire is now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Any new fires that start, we're able to respond and help.

[A]

Okay, so. So fires are currently under control.

[B]

This fire, we're not calling it controlled.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But there is lying around almost all of it. Okay, Very much. Almost all of it. But resources, we're still working. So about the excitement is about 10% of the fire where the flames are there, but 90% of the work is done after those flames are gone. And we have to secure those edges. Did you ever watch a campfire where the wind comes in and it's out?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Then the wind comes and it blows embers.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Same thing can happen.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

You have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing deeper and deeper and stay around all these homes and Mondanito Fernwood all the way up.

[A]

When you, when you, when you vote, like pull the barrier to self, the fire going is you just. You clear the brush and, and the trees and like, like what, what actions do you take around the perimeter that.

[B]

So along the perimeter we cut. We call it cutting line. We use bulldoze. But really what we're doing is taking everything out down to bare minimum soil. So there will be a path of dirt from where the fire break. Exactly. We're building a fire break along the edge of the black.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

So there's nothing left to burn. So the only danger at that point was if the wind blows an ember over that line.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So we have to build it appropriately big enough to secure that, to stop that from happening, and then push into the black to take all the heat away. So it gives us a bigger buffer as much as possible.

[A]

How, how big is a fire brake need to be?

[B]

It depends on the size of fuel. If you look at textbook size of fuel, it's anything that we see and, and it's different for terrain, size of fuel, everything like that. Usually it's a couple times, 1/2 times the size of the fuel.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But we have fuel in the Topanga Canyon area, the Palisades area. There hasn't been fire there in 60 years. So you're looking really. Wow, 15.

[A]

This is very, quite a rare fire.

[B]

Correct?

[A]

Like it's a half century fire in something.

[B]

Absolutely. The last major fires I have really pushed through Topanga is 93, 96.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But there is, there is part of these hillsides that there hasn't been recorded fire in 60 years.

[C]

Okay, wow.

[A]

All right. And are there things that like, would be like, like. I think what a lot of people are curious about is like what things could be done in the future to ensure that houses are less susceptible to burning down. I mean it's like, like, like as we rebuild for the future because it's like there's one thing about like past recriminations and all that, but like we can't go, we can't rewind the clock. But what we can do is say like in the future, what, what, what should we do to minimize the probability that, you know, people's homes and businesses will burn down?

[B]

Yeah, great question. And that's, that's really what we want. So throughout history, as fire, as fire prevention gets better, we, we do better at safety structures. So when you look at the LA county website, LA City has references out there as well. We call it. You always hear the term defensible space.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is the biggest thing to safe structures.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So and hardening your home. So defensible space. We'll start there, that is basically clear. And brush as low as possible to about 100ft is what our minimum standard, say 100ft away. You can, you start at 10ft, but you limit it out. About 100ft is the best.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So then when it hits there, you're basically building that 100 foot buffer of fuel break around your home.

[A]

So like no, no kindling for 100ft, basically.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, that sounds, that sounds pretty sensible.

[B]

It is. And then you harden your home. We call harness.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Is don't stack firewood right against the wall Really a big part of. Once we lose structures on a typical, maybe not 100 mile winds, but on typical is there's something by the house.

[A]

Flammable fire. Yep.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Wood furniture, something like that. And it could burn up and gets into the attic and then we lose the house.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Or it gets in the porch system. Right. You might have a wood deck and it comes up and just allows the flame to go into the house. So.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

A lot of times we talk about or ember cast that gets in the embers. So you, you put screens around every opening. So you have vents on your house. Put screens, very small screens so the air can get through there. But embers, good sized embers that will actually catch house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get in there.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So there's stuff like that move everything away from your house. Everything safe. And the vegetation in this area is. Is astonishingly beautiful. And we understand that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

Things you have to do for.

[A]

I mean I have heard like some things like some of the, the issues with firebreaks where like there's like some endangered like plant or something and then we can't do a fire break or that's an issue. Like, like, like is there stuff that would be helpful from a regulatory reform standpoint that would help with fire prevention in the future?

[B]

Well, L.A. county, I mean we do have standards. We go in certain areas. We actually have these lists of residences. Like this is what we have to do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think it's just an awareness so, so when people good and bad about the bad thing is this happened the good thing, maybe it'll bring a greater awareness that there is a way to help defend your homes. There is a way to help this from stop happening in the future. And that defensible space, building that and building those. That's the way to do it as far as.

[A]

Well, I guess people like obviously we definitely want to give people a sense of hope for the future and if things get rebuilt that their house is not going to burn down again. It's like a reasonable thing. So it's like, like if there are things that we should push for from a regulatory reform standpoint, this would be good to. To know, you know. And yeah.

[B]

Clearance space.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Building. Building material. Right. We could, we can. Now these are newer things. So now the, the standards of building construction codes have been brought and have changed over the years. So maybe when their house was built they weren't there.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Now we have new. The new codes. There's going to be certain fire retardant materials. There's going to be certain things that they can do. If you look a lot concrete buildings don't burn.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So there's some of these people that have built their concrete in the middle and it's right on the middle of the black all around and nothing was done. But they didn't burn because of the building material.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't, you can't burn concrete.

[B]

Correct. So yeah. And materials.

[A]

Steel and concrete is going to be okay.

[B]

Yes. The great things. They have other materials out there now that will definitely help.

[A]

Like what? I think people are just like, I'm like hopeful that this video can be like helpful to people, you know, like what, what should people do differently? Like if it's not steel and concrete, you say there's some new materials, like, like, like synthetic materials or, or what is it?

[B]

There's stuff that they put into to the materials to be able to do it.

[D]

Help my partner out.

[C]

So we're here. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know.

[D]

Anyways, I just wanted to kind of point something out back.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

1962, we had a fire, it was called the Bel Air fire that burned from this area into kind of the same burn pattern.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

And then after that fire, that's when.

[B]

They basically, in the city of Los.

[D]

Angeles, they outlawed wood shaped roofs. So wood people roots were outlawed?

[A]

Yeah, I mean that's a, I mean that's a nightmare. Yeah, sure. My partner is saying there's a roof made of kindling. Right.

[D]

So we update the building standards, the fire code standards, the fire prevention standards.

[A]

Sure.

[D]

And then that's up to you and the people out there that are a little more into the actual architecture and to find some, something that actually could be potentially more fire safe.

[A]

Sure.

[D]

You know, and maybe the silver line around the gray cloud is that that may happen. Maybe we'll live in a safer fire zone or an area where there's prone to fires, safer type of structures. That's kind of what we're hoping to come out of this, you know, as maybe one of the very small but good things.

[A]

All right, sounds good. Well, I mean, do you have any guidance for people? Like if there's like. Obviously steel and concrete are not going to burn, but like other new synthetics that you think would be better than like or, or besides steel, concrete, Is there anything else?

[D]

I, I.

[B]

No, I really am not an expert.

[A]

Or stones actually. Like. Okay. It's pretty hard to burn stone, steel and concrete.

[D]

There's some stuff out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Worried about putting it out.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

But yeah, I think that there are some, some people will come together and find something. But yeah, there's certainly some stuff out there.

[A]

We just. All right, sounds good. All right. Hey everyone. So. All right. What about, what about water availability? Was water availability. I understand that was like not, not an issue in, in Malibu. Is that correct?

[B]

Was it water? Yeah, so there was water. We have several reservoirs that encinos we use a lot. Now just an example, if we have one building burning, we could flow a thousand gallons a minute on that one building with the hose lays that we put in the. Stop it. You can imagine 1000 gallons per house we couldn't do. Right. So the amount of water we're flowing, there really is no water system that's going to keep that pace. So we have to bring in water tenders, which are these big tank water tanks that, you know, 25003000 gallon trucks, and they'll come in. That's what we have to do to overcomp to compensate. So they park out there, do it. DWTP did a great job. They brought in big water trucks for us, and we use them as basically mobile hydrants.

[A]

All right, Right.

[B]

And then we have our own agency as well that has water tenders.

[A]

Okay, I'm understanding. Is that like along the. Maybe, correct me if I'm wrong, along in Malibu, along the coast, there was no shortage of water in the Palisades, there was a shortage of water at a certain point, or is that not.

[B]

Well, we were just. We were flowing just an amount of. Amount of water that the system couldn't bury just because of how much water these firefighters were utilizing.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

All right, sounds good. All right, thanks, guys.