Latest: Elon Musk Leaves Audience Speechless.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Elon Musk Thinking

Episode: "Elon Musk Leaves Audience Speechless"

Host: Astronaut Man
Guest: Elon Musk
Release Date: April 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this captivating interview, Elon Musk sits down for a wide-ranging conversation exploring some of the most pressing topics shaping the future of humanity—demographic decline, immigration, environmentalism, artificial intelligence, civilization, free speech, and the purpose behind his companies. Musk candidly discusses his warnings about population collapse, his pragmatic but optimistic outlook on climate change, his concerns about the "woke mind virus," and the existential risks and potential gifts of advanced AI. He also offers powerful reflections on why being a multi-planetary species matters, why free speech is foundational for democracy, and why money matters little compared to civilization itself.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Demographic Crisis & Birth Rates

Timestamps: 01:13 – 04:00, 19:54 – 22:12

• Elon Musk emphasizes the critical importance of population growth and warns of the dangers of declining birth rates.
• "If people do not have children, there is no new generation…in three generations, maybe four generations, the population will be roughly 1/10 of its current size." (Elon Musk, 02:33)
• He urges leaders to create incentives that make it easier for people to start families, underlining the existential risk to civilization if the trend continues.
• Musk directly connects workforce shortages to future economic prospects, highlighting how even countries with rich cultures and economic opportunities, like Italy, may struggle.
  • "If a company is to invest in Italy, they’re like, well, you have to say, will there be enough people to work there?" (Elon Musk, 21:11)

2. Immigration, Cultural Identity & Policy

Timestamps: 04:00 – 06:36, 17:02 – 19:18

• Musk recognizes immigration's benefits but argues it is not a long-term solution to low birth rates, especially for large populations like China.
• He advocates for preserving cultural identities and warns that without people, countries as cultural entities cease to exist.
• On policy, he is "very much in favor of legal immigration"—but also stresses the need for simple, integrity- and contribution-based filters:
  • "If somebody is going to add to a country, just really hard working and high integrity, let them in. I think that's great." (Elon Musk, 17:22)
  • However, he warns bluntly: "If there’s no people, there’s no people to work." (Elon Musk, 21:12)

3. The Environment: Pragmatism versus Alarmism

Timestamps: 06:36 – 10:57
Notable Moment: The "Cows Are Fine" Joke, 07:54

• Musk positions himself as a leading environmentalist by action, not just rhetoric.
• He criticizes aspects of environmentalism that see humanity as a plague and warns of overreach:
  • "There is an aspect of the environmental movement that I think has gone too far...you start to look at humanity as a bad thing." (Elon Musk, 06:46)
• He downplays the impact of farming and livestock, cracks a joke: "Don't worry about the cows. The cows are fine. Cows are not going to destroy the environment." (Elon Musk, 07:54)
• Focuses concern on carbon emissions from burning fossil fuels, but believes short-term alarmism is exaggerated:
  • "I think the climate change alarm is somewhat overblown in the short term. It's still a concern in the long term, but I think it's exaggerated in the short term." (Elon Musk, 08:24)
• Stresses a steady transition to sustainable energy while maintaining hope and excitement for the future.

4. The “Woke Mind Virus”

Timestamps: 12:31 – 16:32, 34:47 – 38:49

• Musk defines the "woke mind virus" as ideologies that foster identity division, amplify racism and sexism, and undermine meritocracy and joy.
  • "Woke mind virus and fun are incompatible. There’s no fun in that. No joy." (Elon Musk, 13:30)
• He warns that it spreads quickly and is detrimental to societal cohesion:
  • "At its heart, my concern is that the woke mind virus is anti-civilizational. End of civilization. Anti civilization." (Elon Musk, 38:38)
• Criticizes large corporations and organizations (e.g., Disney, European Commission) for adopting these ideas:
  • "Disney is deeply infected with the woke mind virus." (Elon Musk, 34:50)
• Urges Europe not to "import this strange thing from America."

5. The Role of the Internet, Artificial Intelligence & Existential Risk

Timestamps: 22:12 – 29:22

• Musk discusses the Internet as the "nervous system of humanity" and describes artificial intelligence as a major inflection point in intelligence.
  • "Artificial intelligence is...a new species." (Elon Musk, 22:44)
• AI is described as a "double-edged sword" and likened to a magic genie that can fulfill almost any wish, warning that in fairy tales, "it doesn’t turn out so well."
• Explores the mystery of consciousness, philosophically referring to humans as "hydrogen talking to itself" (25:14).
• Advocates for regulatory oversight of AI to ensure safety and maximize benefits, estimating that "80% probable that AI is beneficial, 20% harmful." (Elon Musk, 30:03)

6. Regulation, Democracy, and Civilizational Stagnation

Timestamps: 29:47 – 33:47

• Musk is wary of regulatory overreach, warning that accumulating laws can eventually paralyze a nation.
  • "Laws, they are immortal, they never die. But people die...if all we do is add, eventually we will be able to do nothing." (Elon Musk, 31:50)

7. Social Media, Free Speech, and X (formerly Twitter)

Timestamps: 33:47 – 42:03

• Defends his acquisition of Twitter/X for reasons of free speech and protecting civilization, not profit.
  • "Democracy, the foundation of democracy is freedom of speech…free speech is only meaningful if you allow people you don’t like to say things you don’t like." (Elon Musk, 39:09, 39:56)
• Criticizes advertisers' sensitivity to “brand risk” but predicts they will return.
• Reiterates that the economic value of his companies is less meaningful to him than their impact on civilization:
  • "From 0 to 10, money for me…1 or 2." (Elon Musk, 42:17)

8. Companies, Mars, and Humanity’s Future

Timestamps: 42:24 – 45:50

• Describes the purpose behind SpaceX (multi-planetary life), Tesla (sustainable energy), and other ventures.
• Elon details the Starship launch as groundbreaking—creating a rocket capable of building human bases on the Moon and Mars.
  • "Starship…it’s the first rocket that is capable of building a base on Mars and a base on the moon." (Elon Musk, 43:49)
• Shares his admiration for Enrico Fermi and references the Fermi Paradox, emphasizing how rare consciousness may be:
  • "Human consciousness is really like a tiny candle in a vast darkness. We must do everything we can to ensure that the candle does not go out." (Elon Musk, 45:35)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Demography:
  "In three generations, the population will be roughly 1/10 of its current size." (Elon Musk, 02:33)
• On Environmentalism:
  "Cows are fine. Cows are not going to destroy the environment." (Elon Musk, 07:54)
• On Wokeness:
  "Woke mind virus and fun are incompatible. There’s no fun in that." (Elon Musk, 13:30)
  "Disney is deeply infected with the wok mind virus … I think [Walt Disney] is turning in his grave." (Elon Musk, 34:50)
• On AI:
  "Artificial intelligence will be essentially a new species" (Elon Musk, 22:44)
  "If you leave hydrogen out in the sun long enough, it starts talking to itself. Here we are, hydrogen talking to itself." (Elon Musk, 25:14-25:22)
• On Free Speech:
  "Free speech is only meaningful if you allow people you don’t like to say things you don’t like." (Elon Musk, 39:56)
• On Wealth:
  "From 0 to 10, how important is money for you?... One or two." (Elon Musk, 42:17)
• On Humanity’s Place in the Universe:
  "Human consciousness is really like a tiny candle in a vast darkness. We must do everything we can to ensure the candle does not go out." (Elon Musk, 45:35)

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Recommended Segments (with Timestamps)

• Demographic Decline & Birth Rate Crisis: 01:13 – 04:00; 19:54 – 22:12
• Immigration Policy & Cultural Identity: 04:00 – 06:36; 17:02 – 19:18
• Environmentalism & Cows: 06:36 – 10:57 (esp. 07:54 joke)
• On the Woke Mind Virus: 12:31 – 16:32; 34:47 – 38:49
• Exploring AI and Consciousness: 22:12 – 29:22
• Free Speech & X (Twitter): 33:47 – 42:03
• Mars, Fermi Paradox, Human Future: 42:24 – 45:50

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is informal yet philosophical, alternately earnest, humorous (notably on cows), and provocative in social and political critique.
• Musk is contemplative about existential threats, energetic about space exploration, and candidly critical of cultural trends he believes threaten human flourishing.

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This episode provides a comprehensive window into Musk’s worldview—uniting concern for civilization’s continuity, a pragmatic view of global challenges, passionate advocacy for scientific progress, and an urgent call to safeguard hope, excitement, and freedom of thought for future generations.

Transcript

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[Elon Musk]

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Latest interview of Elon Musk how long

[Interviewer]

is the trip from host into here by plate?

[Elon Musk]

I I think it's about eight, eight or nine hours.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so you're fresh like him in the first morning.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer]

So first question is about demography and I spoke with you in the past about that and I think it's very important for you and you pointed on that a lot of your discussion and your purpose is. It's.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, I think I really want to emphasize that it's important to have children and to create the new generation. And as simple as it sounds, if people do not have children there is no new generation. So I very much strongly recommend that know I'm very much in favor of humanity expanding and creating a bright and exciting future for the world. And but, but, but fundamental to the furtherance of human civilization is having humans as, as simple and basic as that sounds. And you know every year I look at the, the birth rates and I like it's, it's kind of a bit depressing because birth rates seem to decline every year. And I think you know that perhaps my, my biggest advice to leaders, to government leaders and to the people in general would, would be to make sure to have children to create the new generation. And I think any, any incentives that can be done to incent the new generation to make it easier for women to have children and to support the children I think would be very wise. This is so fundamental and I really can't emphasize that enough. If you don't have a new generation, there is no new generation or with current birth rates, I think it may be the generations are birth rate is maybe half, half of the replacement rate. And what that means is in three generations the population will be one, roughly roughly 1/10 of its current size. In three generations, maybe four generations, the you'll, the population will be one tenth of its current size. So I always want to emphasize this point because it is so basic and fundamental that if there's not at least a birth rate which is keeping population constant, then a people will disappear.

[Interviewer]

Disappear, Mr. Mas. Disappear.

[Elon Musk]

Disappear.

[Interviewer]

We have a lot of immigration. Somebody says that immigration is important for that reason. What's your point on that? Immigration is coming in Europe and is coming in America from the south of America and then Europe from the south of Mediterranean Sea. What do you think about that?

[Elon Musk]

Well, I think one can't depend on other countries for immigration. And in fact, if you look at say, the population worldwide, and this is almost everywhere in the world and it seems to be a function of how once a country industrializes, once a country urbanizes, the population immediately starts to decline. So one could say, for example, like, like China could not possibly solve its population with immigration because if you, you know, China is currently tracking to be, maybe lose 40% of its population every generation, you know, that would be 700 million, 800 million people or roughly 6,700 million people. It's a lot. Basically you'd have to have the entire United States immigrate there twice every generation to simply maintain numbers just for China. So immigration, there simply aren't enough numbers in immigration. And I think there is value to a culture and we don't want cultures. We don't want Japan to disappear. We don't want Italy as a culture to disappear. We don't want France as a culture to disappear. I think we have to have the, maintain the sort of reasonable cultural identity of the various countries or they simply will not be those countries. You know, Italy is, Italy is the people of Italy. The buildings are there. But, but really what is Italy? Italy is the people of Italy. So I mean, I just think it's, and I speak as someone who is very much, very much an environmentalist and I believe in having, you know, building a sustainable future for the world. I think there are very few people who, as an individual who have done more than I have to help the environment with electric cars and solar and batteries to create a sustainable energy future, because we absolutely need a sustainable energy future.

[Interviewer]

But.

[Elon Musk]

There is an aspect of the environmental movement that I think has gone too far.

[Interviewer]

Really said from you?

[Elon Musk]

Yes, so said from me. You know, I think I am objectively one of the World's leading environmentalists in terms of doing things. Like, I'm an environmentalist who does things of action, not talk, I act. So, So I feel I can say as, as an environmentalist that the environmentalist movement has gone too far. And in that, in the natural extension of the environmentalist movement, if you go too far, you start to look at humanity as a bad thing. You start to look at humanity as though we are a plague on the surface of the Earth, as though humanity is a bad thing. And in fact, there are some people who think and say explicitly that in fact, on the front page of the New York Times, there was a guy who said, there are 8 billion people on Earth, it would be better if there were none. Which is crazy.

[Interviewer]

Definitely. So you told me a joke about that. You told me once a joke about the cows and the problem with the cows. You remember that?

[Elon Musk]

Oh, yeah. Don't worry about the cows. The cows are fine. Cows are not going to destroy the environment. Cows are fine.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Elon Musk]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know, we have a lot of, a lot of laws, European laws, again, against all the people who work with them. You know, a big issue for us because it seems green issue, but it's a very industrial issue for us.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah. I think farming and cows are not, do not have a, any meaningful effect on the environment.

[Interviewer]

Yes, underline, please.

[Elon Musk]

I, I, yes, objectively, this is true. So, so the, if you say, like there's, there's really only one thing that matters from an environmental standpoint for carbon, which is that we are taking billions, eventually trillions of tons of carbon from buried deep with it under the earth and putting, transferring it to the atmosphere and oceans. That's the, that's actually really all that matters is taking vast amounts of carbon from underground where it's buried and moving it into the atmosphere by burning it. And if you do that for long enough, eventually you will get climate change. Now, I think the climate change alarm is somewhat overblown in the short term. It's still a concern in the long term, but I think it's exaggerated in the short term.

[Interviewer]

Great.

[Elon Musk]

I'm trying to thread the needle here between what, you know, like, what is pragmatic and what is sensible. What really matters and what doesn't matter. What really matters is that over the long term, over the course of the next several decades, that we gradually reduce how, how many millions and billions of tons of, of carbon that we move from underground and to the atmosphere. Because we're running sort of a climate experiment that is dangerous. But, but I also don't think that. I think of it as a fundamental civilizational risk. It is. It's not going to destroy life on Earth, it's not going to destroy humanity, but it will create hardship if you change the climate over many decades. So I think my message is I think much more pragmatic and I think correct and sensible. And I don't think we should demonize oil and gas. I think we should say look, that is obviously necessary in the short term and the medium term too. And it'll take several decades to become sustainable. So I think if we just, without getting too worried about it, seek to have a sustainable energy future gradually, then that's what will happen. And so I think that some of the environmentalist movement has is part of what is causing people to lose hope in the future. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should have hope in the future. We should be excited about the future and we should build the future we want.

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[Interviewer]

What about Elon? You call it the walk mind? Yes, sure is the name you gave to that.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Walk mind illness. What's that? Virus?

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, so.

[Interviewer]

So it's coming to Europe. I have to advise you, huh?

[Elon Musk]

Yes. Well, this is not something you should import from America. Please don't import the Woke mind virus is bad. So the, the, I mean essentially that to summarize maybe the work mind virus it consists of creating very, very divisive identity politics. So it actually amplifies woke virus. Mind virus in my view amplifies racism, amplifies frankly sexism and all the isms. And while claiming to do the opposite, it actually divides people and makes them sort of hate each other and it makes people hate themselves. And it's also anti meritocratic. It's not like, you know, it's not merit based. So you want, you want to have people succeed based on how hard they work and the talents, not who they are. Whether they're man, woman, what, what, what race or you know, gender, what. None. That stuff is all creating. It's an artificial, you know, mental civil war that is created and it's not. And, and let me say it's no fun, okay? It is like, it is like woke mind virus and fun are incompatible. There's no fun in that. No joy. It's, it's. Woke mind virus is all about condemning people instead of celebrating people, you know, like when in the world it just doesn't celebrate. It's all about condemning and being divisive and, and being just. I think it's just evil frankly.

[Interviewer]

Really.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah, it's bad.

[Interviewer]

So bad.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But have you get a lot of problems saying so on, on your social in Excel have this point of view. You are good friend of administration and now they don't really like you so much for this kind of speech you do in public or not.

[Elon Musk]

I don't know. I mean I just, I'm very, very pro human. I'm very pro civilization. I'm in favor of humanity and our collective consciousness expanding on Earth and going beyond Earth. Being a multi planet species, a space faring civilization and being out there among the stars and finding out the nature of the universe. Like all the things that you know, it's. That seems like to me, you know, exciting thing, something you can get really excited about is, is you're going to get excited. Like we want to have ideas that make you look forward to waking up in the morning, look forward to the day, look forward to the future. And you know, so you have to say what, what excites you about the future? What moves your heart about the future? What makes you say like yes, I'm glad about what will happen in the future. That's what we must, you know, focus on. And that's, that's why we have to have a new generation. We've Got to build and we got to grow and like I said, understand the nature of this beautiful universe that we find ourselves in and the meaning of life or even what questions to ask about, you know, the meaning of life. Let us explore this wondrous creation and have a good time doing it. Yeah, that's my philosophy.

[Interviewer]

Let me go back for a little bit because I want to ask you about your perception of Europe as a building, not as people. Because Europe do a lot of flow, a lot of integration of cultures, different cultures and has different approach to the immigration. We heard Meloni did a lot on that with Premier Ramai in the first line of Albania. What do you think about the. This approach of Europe approach as building? I would say as an established building?

[Elon Musk]

Well, I should say, like to be clear on immigration overall, I'm very much in favor of legal immigration. I think that generally I think one should welcome to a country anyone who is willing to work hard and is honest, has high integrity and will add to any given country. If somebody is an asset to the country, why not have, have them join? That's obviously a great thing to do. So I think it's good actually to have an increase in legal immigration and, and a simple legal, with paper with yeah, just some, some approval process with a simple requirement that look, if somebody is going to add to a country like just really hard working and high, high integrity, let them in. I think that's great. But if there's, if it's illegal immigration and there's no filter, well, how do you know who's coming in? You don't know. So you have to have some, you know, basis for saying somebody should come in or not come in. And my argument is like it should be a very simple basis. Will they, will they add to the country, will they be a productive part of the economy and do they admire the culture? Do they want to join because of the culture, then that's great. But if, you know, if there's no process for that, then you don't know. I think at least some number of the people that come in will not be necessarily. And I want to be careful because my words will be misconstrued. I'm not saying all illegal immigrants are bad. I think probably, perhaps most of them are good. But there will be some. If there's no process for reviewing, not at all, then how can you say that everyone who is an illegal immigrant is going to be honest and hard working? You can't say that because you simply don't know. So I want to be clear Top line, pro immigration. But. But let's increase legal immigration. But, but we should stop illegal immigration. I think this is just logical.

[Interviewer]

You have a lot of company, so. That's right, you can drink. Because I want to do the list of the companies. You have five, seven minutes to do that. I mean, I'm joking with SpaceX, X, Neuralink.

[Elon Musk]

So many X's.

[Interviewer]

All the X's.

[Elon Musk]

Guess what my favorite letter is.

[Interviewer]

Okay. X. I guess it's a good place to invest. Italy. It's a good place, place to invest some of, I mean, not your money, but some investment from your company of the American companies, of the, I would say competitive companies in this place. What's your opinion?

[Elon Musk]

No, I mean, I think Italy is an incredible country, incredible culture. I love, I love visiting. I love the Italian people. I think you guys are amazing. Like, so, So I want, you know, personally, I want the, actually, I want the prosperity of Leah and I want the prosperity of every country. I want the prosperity of humanity as a whole. And like I said, I want us to have an exciting future where we're fired up about what's going to happen and really excited. So, you know, and I, I think, you know, Italy is a great place to invest. It's a great, you know, great country. And, but, but I do want to emphasize that, that I do worry that about the, the low birth rate and, you know, if a, if a company is to invest in Italy, they're like, well, you have to say, like, will there be enough people to work there? You know, it's simple question, you know, if, if, if the workforce is declining, then, if the workforce is declining, then, then, then who will work at the company?

[Interviewer]

It's a simple.

[Elon Musk]

If there's no people, there's no people to work.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but I mean, in 50 years,

[Elon Musk]

I think it's even sooner than that, though. You know, if you're so worried about

[Interviewer]

that is the problem.

[Elon Musk]

I, I feel like a total Cassandra here because, like, I seem to be worried about it much more than other people. But, you know, there just needs to be people. If you don't make a new generation of people, there is no new generation of people. So that's it. I know I'm being, you know, I'm being repetitive here, but I'm just, I'm just trying to state, state facts, you know, so. And yeah, so it's a good place to invest. I know, I agree. It's a good place to invest and, and a wonderful country. So please make more Italians is what I'm saying.

[Interviewer]

You Said once that the Internet is the, is the system is the. Now I write down that your word. The nervous system of humanity. What's it? Yes, you said once to me. Yeah, intelligence for you. Sorry, the intelli.

[Elon Musk]

Artificial artificial intelligence.

[Interviewer]

If that is the nervous system, interfacial intelligence. What's. I mean, use another metaphor.

[Elon Musk]

You asked me what do I think of artificial intelligence?

[Interviewer]

Obviously.

[Elon Musk]

Well, you can think of artificial intelligence as. This is perhaps the, the biggest inflection point in intelligence since Homo sapiens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Artificial intelligence is, will be essentially a sort of a, a new species or is a new species. So I think one of the biggest challenges if, if I look at say civilizational risk, you know, the, the risk to the future of humanity, you know, birth rate is one of them. If we just don't have kids and dwindle away. That's one which I've talked a lot about. The other is, you know, there's always like potentially nuclear war, of course, that kind of thing. Then AI is also an existential risk and we need to be, I think we need to be careful with the advent of AI but it is very much, it's very much a double edged sword. You can think of AI as kind of like the magic genie, you know that like digital super intelligence will be capable of doing anything. Anything, pretty much anything.

[Interviewer]

But he doesn't have any consciousness. I'm wondering about that.

[Elon Musk]

I mean there is a whole question of like what is consciousness in fact. So here's like I was, I thought a lot about what is consciousness and where does consciousness arise? You know, to say like, because I think in terms of physics, you know, and at least if physics is true, then we go from a start of the universe where things are almost entirely hydrogen. And then if you leave the hydrogen out long enough, eventually it coalesces into stars and then those stars explode and then they recondense, you know. And so like most of the mass in your body is, was once at the center of a star, which is kind of wild, billions of years ago. And so where along the lines of hydrogen to human does consciousness arise?

[Interviewer]

You get very serious when you speak about that.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, it's a real question. If you leave hydrogen out in the sun long enough, it starts talking to itself. Here we are, hydrogen talking to itself.

[Interviewer]

How to deal with that? So if it is so important how to deal, I mean lows personal behavior, how to deal with that artificial intelligence? This is a process.

[Elon Musk]

I mean, I think we need to keep a close eye on artificial intelligence. I mean I'm in favor of some regulatory insight just so that there's someone can at least be a referee. Like if you think of any game, like there's always a referee for a game. For, for industries that affect the good of the people. There's our. There are regulatory agencies that oversee those industries. Anything that's dangerous is overseen by some kind of referee or regulator. I think we should have the same thing for AI just to help ensure that it is beneficial. The good part of AI is that we are headed for a future of abundance. So AI and robotics will mean that there are no shortage of goods and services. There will be goods and services. If you can think of it, you can have it basically. So this is a quite profound. Like I said, it's the magic genie. AI and robotics will get you anything you want. Now usually in these sort of fairy tales about magic genies, it doesn't turn out so well. You have to be careful what you wish for, even if what you wish for are wishes. So,

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[Elon Musk]

It's just something we should be cautious about.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Elon Musk]

On the plus side, it will bring many benefits. Like I said, it will usher in an age of abundance. So the positive scenario of AI is that there's an age of abundance and there are no shortage of goods and services. That any scarcity that is that exists will be only because we define it to be scarce. So, and it just seems to be somewhat of an inevitable thing. AI so you Know, there's that supposedly that. That Chinese saying about may you live in interesting times. Well, I think we currently live in the most interesting of times in all of history right now. So anyway, so my recommendation on AI is I think we want some kind of regulatory oversight just to make sure that it's beneficial. AI Great.

[Interviewer]

We hope so. And what about the governments like, I mean they are elected by people like Meloni and this government and the other government, they have any risks or what do you think about these challenge for the, for the executive of the nations about all these new process.

[Elon Musk]

So I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Interviewer]

What's the risk for the government of these artificial intelligence? Are there any risks? I mean, that democracy is finished?

[Elon Musk]

Well, I, I think there's certainly risk of artificial intelligence affecting voting opinion, I. I suppose and manipulating public opinion. So I think there's, there's some risk of. Yeah, a. AI manipulating the public. I think that's part. That's how much of that. So. Yeah, okay. You know, but I think probably like, like I said, 80 probable that AI is beneficial, 20 harmful. Okay. Something like that.

[Interviewer]

I, I'm. I'm always worried because, you know, we have a new government these two years, this government almost two years and we have a Europe. For us it's our artificial intelligence. It seems like artificial intelligence, but it's not very intelligent sometimes. Europe. And so I'm wondering what do you think about the government and about Europe for us is so important the relation. I understand artificial intelligence in the future, but in the present we have laws, you know, constraints that comes from Europe. What do you think about that? If you have any opinion on that. What do you think about Italian government which is trying to have a position? I would say a position. Meloni, I don't know if there's more than a position. You want me to be more tough than a position? It's okay. What do you think it's good to have a position in Europe to be, I mean, I would say different from main course of European politics.

[Elon Musk]

Do you mean like country decisions versus

[Interviewer]

EU decisions or decision about green, about the politics, immigration.

[Elon Musk]

I mean there's a separate question of like, I think regulations in Europe. There are too many regulations in general. Not. I'm not speaking about specific case of AI I think one could look at this as overall a fundamental function of, of a stable civilization. The longer that any given civilization is stable and does not have a big war, the more rules and regulations will accumulate over time. So rules, regulations, laws, they are immortal, they never die. But people die. So if every year more and more rules, regulations and laws are added, you will eventually make everything illegal. And you can think of it sort of like Gulliver's Travels, where Gulliver, if, if the nation is Gulliver, it's being tied down by one little regulatory string at a time and eventually you have millions of strings and then the giant can't move. And so I think there needs to be something where we delete rules, regulations and laws. Because if we keep, if we simply, if all we do is add them, eventually we will be able to do nothing.

[Interviewer]

Okay, shall I do some question about your companies? Because here there are all the young people, not only the young people from important, important Italian party and they, most of them use the social network, they use X. And I, I, I saw in the past days that the CEO of Disney said I don't want to invest any advertising on X. And he's investing, for example in the meta in Instagram and he said that there are problems of, I don't know which kind of problem they find on it. Yeah, I want you.

[Elon Musk]

Child exploitation.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. What, what's, what's going on? Why, why an important investor like Disney said something so tough on X? What's going on there?

[Elon Musk]

Well, I think first of all, I think X will be, will be fine. And we are actually already seeing advertisers return to okay to X. So I guess they were, I don't know, upset with something I said or something, I don't know. But they, you know, advertisers, I think are the brand. Advertisers are a little, they're always worried about their brand. And you know, maybe, I think maybe a bit more than they should be, but I think it's a short term issue. Like I said, the advertisers, they sometimes get upset but then they usually calm down and they return to advertising.

[Interviewer]

So come on, you know that there is the woke virus over there.

[Elon Musk]

Well, yes.

[Interviewer]

I don't want to answer for you.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, yeah, no, you're right, you're right. If we're going to fight the work mind virus, then the wok mind virus will fight back. And unfortunately, Disney is deeply infected with the work mind virus. In fact, if you ask an AI what is the most work company on earth? It's Disney, you know, but, and you have to say, what would I mean, I think they should be asking ourselves, what would Walt Disney think of Disney today? I think he's turning in his grave. I think he's not happy. Sure, sure. You know, if the namesake of the company is not happy. That's probably a bad sign, you know, because Walt Disney, what did he care about? He cared about bringing joy to people's lives. He, you know, making wonderful things that children and families could enjoy. And you know, he was, it created some of the coolest, you know, art in the world and stuff that even 100 years after it's created, we still remember it and still, it's still a major thing. But you have to say, how great was Walt Disney? Was amazing. But now Disney, at least for now, is deeply infected with the Woke Mind virus. I think that will, you know, that will change.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Oh, I hope so. You arrive at the European Commission, they are not investing on X. You know, that maybe they're a little.

[Elon Musk]

They got the Woke My virus too. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You don't care.

[Elon Musk]

I think so. You know, and, and it's like, why are they importing this, this crazy thing from America? You know, it's like, it's, it's just some thing that was created basically by sort of far left crazy people in U.S. colleges. And now it's spreading all over the world. And it's, it's like, you know, like the thing is the work mind virus, it's, it's not a message of joy, it's a, it's a message of division.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Elon Musk]

It's not a message of love, it's a message of hate. And I was like, and so I'm like, I'm like, like, you know, let's, I don't know, I'm in favor of like, let's have a future that's got more love, more like, more. And let us build a fun, exciting future and, and, and the work. Biden Rice is all about condemning one group and condemning this, condemning that. It's like, and, and, and, and it's also like just being like, it just wants to scold you all the time and, and treat you like a, you know, I don't know. Who wants to be scolded? You know, it's. So anyway, I think we want to,

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Elon Musk]

have a like so I, I guess at its heart my concern is that the work mind virus is anti civilizational end of civilization. Anti civilization.

[Interviewer]

I think civilization, sure. But if it represents a cost for your company, what's you know, you have a trade off because between the cost of your position and the cost for the company, what's your choice? And how much is important in your behavior? The free speech standing. That's the question.

[Elon Musk]

I do think free speech is incredibly important because if people cannot speak their minds, then we won't have a democracy. Democracy, the foundation of democracy is freedom of speech,

[Interviewer]

but also saying something. So Andrea, Andrea Stropa is laughing at that because he knows that it's so important for you. But tell me more about the free speech because here is very important person here couldn't speech for a lot of people because they were considered mavericks. Worse than that. Free speech for everybody is important, not just for the person who say the right things.

[Elon Musk]

Exactly. No, exactly. Free speech means that free speech is only relevant. Free speech is only meaningful if you allow people you don't like to say things you don't like. So that's how you know it's working. That's how you know it's working. Because once you start to censor people you don't like saying things you don't like. It's only a matter of time before that censorship turns on you. Eventually, you know, live by the sword, die by the sword, live by censorship, die by censorship.

[Interviewer]

Why you spoke about free speech. You bought Twitter for the free speech. Just for the free speech, not for the business inside you both.

[Elon Musk]

Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, here's the thing. So you know, I think you have to say like if civilization is not strong, if civilization doesn't grow, then nothing else matters. You know, profits don't matter. If civilization collapses, there there's no profits, there's no, you know, we are not we. We cannot exist absent civilization. So sometimes maybe people may say like, well, is this an altruistic thing? I mean, I Think it's for me it feels altruistic. But even if it's, even if one is not altruistic, even if one is very self centered, you have to say if you simply think long term, you have to be pro civilization because you cannot exist without civilization.

[Interviewer]

Okay, how, how important from 0 to 10 in the scale from 0 to 10 money. You are the richest person in the world. How is important money for you? From 0 to 100 is the less important and 10 is the good one.

[Elon Musk]

I don't know, I don't want to 1 or 2 or something.

[Interviewer]

No, come on.

[Elon Musk]

No, I mean 1 or 2.

[Interviewer]

Just, just 1 or 2.

[Elon Musk]

Well, if you say like, I mean the reason I guess I have what so called wealth or it's really just shares in the company is that I've created these companies, you know, in these companies like SpaceX and Tesla. Tesla is 140,000 jobs direct worldwide and five times that number. Maybe, maybe almost a million jobs. When you look at the whole supply chain is what Tesla's created and then Space X is, is about 15,000 people and also you know like maybe for total supply chain, 50,000 people. So you know, I mean I basically with the help of many talented people built these companies and then the so called, these wealth statistics simply, they simply add up what the ownership is in the companies and say okay, this is a certain amount of money but I don't actually have that in money, I have it in stock. I just, it's just, it's just that the companies have succeeded.

[Interviewer]

But how was the last, the last launch of the SpaceX? Tell me something that's question please. Germany, the last launch? I see Mauro there sitting on the floor. Why are you sitting on the floor? Are you worried about the highness?

[Elon Musk]

Seymour,

[Interviewer]

how was the last launch? Was you were optimist about your SpaceX? The big, big.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, so. Well, Starship. So the exciting thing about Starship is that it's the first rocket design that could make life multi planetary, that could enable a self sustaining base on the moon and a city on Mars. So because it is not just a very large vehicle but it is designed for full and rapid reusability. So. So that would lower the cost of access to space by I don't know, maybe 100 or more and so. And basically it's the first rocket that is capable of building a base on Mars and a base on the moon. Yes, that's, that's, that's. Yeah. So you know, you know there's the great Italian physicist Enrico Fermi. I'M a big admirer of Fermi and he had, he was very good at asking profound questions. And one of his questions, which is called the Fermi paradox, is where are the aliens? And one of the explanations is that, and perhaps I think the one that I think is most appears to be most accurate is that consciousness is extremely rare. That it's, you know, we, people often ask me, have I, do I know about aliens or something like that? You know, ask that a lot. And the crazy thing is that I've seen no evidence of aliens whatsoever. This, this means that I think most likely, at least in this part of the galaxy, we are the only consciousness that exists. And so you can think of human consciousness really as like a tiny candle in a vast darkness. And we must do everything we can to ensure that the candle does not go out.

[Interviewer]

Great, we can finish with that. We can finish with that. Okay, we can finish with this.

[Elon Musk]

Oh, and so it's worth reading about the Fermi paradox and because people have thought very hard about this because there are these, because one of the things is like, well, maybe there are these great filters and these civilizations don't pass these filters. One of the filters is do we become a multi planet species or not? If we do not become a multi planet species, then eventually at some point something will happen to the planet. Either it will be man made or it will be something natural like a meteor, like whatever killed the dinosaurs, for example. And then eventually the sun will actually expand and will destroy all life on Earth. So if one cares about life on Earth at all, we should care about becoming a multi planet species and eventually going out there and becoming a multi stellar species and having many star systems. You know, we want the exciting parts of science fiction to not be fiction forever. We want to make them real. And yeah, great.

[Commercial Narrator]

Thanks for listening. See you in the next episode.

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