← Elon Musk Thinking
Elon Musk Thinking
Mindset of Elon Musk, 2013 Interview!!!
00:53:12
Mindset of Elon Musk, 2013 Interview!!! #ElonMusk Elon Musk is the CEO of the company X, Tesla, Neuralink, SpaceX and the Boring Company. Follow me on X https://x.com/Astronautman627?t=RFQEunSF2NwRkCOBc6PkkQ&s=09
Loading summary
Transcript117 lines
- [00:01]
Interviewer
Yes you can. A five minute quick and easy calorie burning workout. Give it a try. Come join our sweatsesh on TikTok.
- [00:16]
Elon Musk
Want to be a star? No problem. Anyone can shine on TikTok. Post your first video today. Real life, real story, real you. Download TikTok and get started.
- [00:31]
Interviewer
Thank you and good afternoon. So we have a lot to cover. Elon does a lot of things. There is at the moment one of his spaceships docked to the space station, the Dragon spaceship. This is the third time that it's been docked. Second commercial one was launched last week. Many of you may have followed the launch, but there was drama. There were solar panels and all this kind of stuff. We could follow it on your Twitter feed. Yeah, what's it. Can you just tell us what it's like to be Elon Musk in the control room during a launch when something happens, when there's an issue?
- [01:06]
Elon Musk
Well, it's extremely nerve wracking. I mean the thing about rocket launch is that all of your work is distilled into these few minutes, particularly the first several seconds around the liftoff. Because the worst thing that can happen with a rocket touchword is if you have an engine failure or some huge failure right above the launch pad and the whole thing can come down with about a million pounds of TNT equivalent and destroy the whole launch pad. That would be. That's what's going through my mind, in case you're wondering. That's actually what I'm thinking about. So when it clears the lightning towers and, and it's gotten further enough away from not actually destroying the launch pad, then that's one sort of go down a notch on fear and anxiety. And then after first stage separation, that's another one when the second stage lights up. So it's sort of going down in intensity as the rocket is going up. And the, the thing is that the first three rocket launches that we had failed. Okay. And the first one failed quite close to the launch pad, almost destroyed the launch pad. In fact, I spent that day picking up rocket pieces off the reef, which is, which sucks. So I think like there's a pretty powerfully ingrained fear response as a result of that because three in a row just, you know, and the image of those rocket failures kind of going through my mind as I'm seeing the rocket launch. So that's what's going on.
- [02:51]
Interviewer
And then in this case you made it through the stage separation, but then there was an issue with the solar cells. Tell me a little bit how you sort of spotted the Problem diagnosed it. What does the team do? I mean, you got there in the end, but how does it work?
- [03:03]
Elon Musk
Yeah, so the solar panels are actually okay, but. And the rocket launch went really well, so that was not a problem. Where things kind of went awry was after spacecraft separation. We tried to initialize the four thruster pods. So there's four thruster pods with a combined total of 18 engines. And the system is designed with a huge amount of redundancy. So it can take all sorts of failures and still complete its mission. That's, that's the whole way it's been made. In fact, it can work with. Even if it has only two of the four thruster plugs working, it can still do a mission. So three weren't working, Which was a huge puzzle. Like why are three not working? Because these things are cross strapped. So you'd kind of think that either maybe one wouldn't work or a cross draft pair wouldn't work, but not three. It was really, really strange. So we had the spacecraft just going through kind of free drift in space. Like they're just tumbling, which makes it also difficult to communicate with because the antennas are like pointing every which way you can imagine. So all we had was a very slight 2 kilobit occasional 2 kilobit link that would go in and out. And that was an omnidirectional signal beaming off the NASA TDRS satellite system. So in order to actually improve the. We first had to improve the bandwidth. So we actually asked the Air Force if we could have some of their long range telemetry scanners, would they give us access? And we have this communication system that we call the megaproxy. So we had to recode the megaproxy to go through the Air Force long range dishes to blast the spacecraft with enough intensity to be able to upload new code to try to fix the problem. And so we wrote some new software to essentially pressure slam the three oxidizer tanks that were refusing to pressurize. It turned out, I think we've figured out the problem, which is that there was a slight change made to a check valve that was in three of the tanks and not in the other. And we were able to replicate that problem on the ground later and were able to basically have the system build up pressure upstream, then release that pressure and slam the valve. So we're trying to give it the sort of the spacecraft equivalent of the Heimlich maneuver, basically. And then we got one of the pods that looked like it was making progress and we didn't Want to unfurl the solar panels until we had at least two pods active. So we could. We could go from sort of drifting to an active hold. But then the temperatures of the solar panels, which are in these protective covers, was dropping. And it can drop to almost absolute zero if it's pointing at dark space. So it was dropping, dropping, dropping. And we're like, okay, shit, we better release the solar panels, otherwise they could literally freeze in place. And so we ran a simulation to see what would happen, and it was actually slightly beneficial. And it's kind of like when a skater, you know, when a skater puts their arms out, it slows down, pull them in, it speeds up. So actually when the arms went out, when the solar panel arrays went out, it slowed down the rate of rotation actually slightly helped us with maintaining communication with the spacecraft. And so then we're able to, with that pressure slam thing, get a pod active, then a third one, and then a fourth one. Then we've got all four working, and we're able to continue the mission dock with the space station. In fact, Dragon is currently docked with the space station right now, and if all goes well, we'll return to Earth in about a week or two.
- [07:27]
Interviewer
That sounds terrifying.
- [07:31]
Grainger Advertiser 1
Wow,
- [07:35]
Elon Musk
That was hardcore. I don't want to go through that again.
- [07:42]
Interviewer
Okay, you are not just here in Austin for South by Southwest, but also to meet with the Texas legislature to talk about possibly a launch base here in Texas. Tell us more about that.
- [07:55]
Elon Musk
Yeah, so right now we've got two main launch locations. One is Cape Canaveral in Florida, and the other is Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. And so they. Cape Canaveral is good for kind of eastward launches, Vandenberg for southerly launches. And we figure we need a third launch site that's kind of a commercial launch site. You know, it's not because Cape Navel and Vanderbilt got Air Force bases, which is cool. And it's. Obviously there's an important need for Air Force space launch bases, as there is for Air Force airports. But then there's also a need for commercial airports. And just like you wouldn't expect commercial airliners to land at an Air Force base, in a normal course of events, it makes sense to have a commercial spaceport. And we need to be able to launch eastward, and we want to be close to the equator. So that basically means the potential states are Virginia through Texas, going south, Hawaii and Puerto Rico. Because the other thing is we need to stay on US Territory because rocket technology like we're doing is considered an Advanced weapons technology. So it's very difficult to export that, if you will, to other countries. And anyway, so those are our options right now. Texas is arguably the leading candidate, but we need certain legislation passed that's supportive of space launch. I don't think it's particularly controversial, but one of the things we need, for example, is we need to be able to close the beach when we're doing a launch. And Texas has the Open Beaches Act. It's like, okay, you know, we can't launch if there's someone right next to the rocket, you know, on the beach. So that's. I don't, like I said, I don't think it's a particularly controversial thing. It's pretty straightforward. And then we kind of need a little bit of protection for kind of the 1 in 10,000 person case who complains about thing. Like we had this dude who filed a lawsuit against us for our rocket development site in Central Texas near Waco. He's like not even in the same county, he's in a neighboring county. And he also thinks like the CA is listening to his brainwaves. So we need like just a little bit of protection for people like that. So we're not like spending a ton of time in court. So that's basically what we're asking for. It's nothing major and I think it's likely to move forward. So I think, you know, if things go as expected, it's likely that we'll have a launch site in Texas, which
- [10:39]
Interviewer
I think would be really cool around when.
- [10:46]
Elon Musk
So it depends on how the environmental approvals go and all that. But I think if things go well, I mean, not all of it's in our hands, so. But assuming that things go as expected, you know, there'd be a decision this year and then we'd start construction next year and then probably the first launches would take place from there in two to three years.
- [11:08]
Interviewer
Terrific.
- [11:08]
Elon Musk
Yeah.
- [11:10]
Interviewer
So Falcon 9 or the rocket that launched Dragon is a traditional rocket, which is to say it's disposable bits. But you're essentially, you're ultimately focused on reusable rocket.
- [11:20]
Elon Musk
Yes, absolutely.
- [11:21]
Interviewer
And Grasshopper is the name of that. Can you talk a little bit about why reusable? What's different about reusable? And I think you probably have some things to show as well.
- [11:30]
Elon Musk
Yeah, absolutely. So reusability is extremely important. If you think it's important that humanity extend beyond Earth and become multi planet species and all that, I mean, it's super important. I think it's also incredibly obvious Common sense like you can imagine watching like Star Trek and then they got a new starship after every trip. That would be pretty silly. And every mode of transport that we're used to, like cars, planes, trains, automobiles, horses, bikes, they're all reusable. But not rockets. And if we can't make rockets reusable, the cost is just prohibitive. The cost of the fuel and oxygen on a Falcon 9 is 0.3% of the cost of the rocket.
- [12:20]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [12:20]
Elon Musk
So it's basically, it's a very tiny number, it's very similar to an airplane. So it's how much does it cost to fuel up an airplane and how much does it cost to buy an airplane? They're very different things. So if humanity is ever to expand beyond Earth and establish a self sustaining base on another planet, it's critical that we survive this problem. Whether it's SpaceX or someone else, someone has to solve the problem and we can have a hundred fold reduction in the cost of spaceflight. So that's what SpaceX has been trying to do and really that's been the goal since the beginning of the company. So so far I've not been very successful in that regard. But I think we kind of have a handle on it. I think we've got to, we've got a design that in the simulations and in CAD and so forth, it closes like it should work. If we can build that thing, it should work. And in fact it may be worth just rolling the reusability video so people have a sense of what I'm talking about. I don't know where that plays, but behind us, in front of us, Can people in the audience see that? Ah, there we go. All right, so what you're seeing here is that the first stage, after stage separation, the first stage turns around, boosts back to the launch pad, and then lands propulsively with landing gear. It's kind of how rocket should land. That's the upper stage. This is the, this is the quick version of the video, obviously. And then you're seeing dragon version 2. So dragon version 2 will land on thrusters with landing gear with the as accurately as a helicopter. So it can land anywhere on earth with the accuracy of a helicopter.
- [14:26]
Interviewer
One last question about space before we turn to cars.
- [14:30]
Grainger Advertiser 1
When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [15:00]
Grainger Advertiser 2
If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H VAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the the win. Call 1-800-granger. Visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [15:31]
Interviewer
You've talked before about how you decide to get into this. You were, you founded, you know, co founded PayPal. You don't really, I mean you have a physics degree, you know something about, about, you know, the underlying mechanics. But you didn't have any space experience, right? You decided I think on a train to go to Mars and decided that you could out compete NASA or that you could get to Mars, you could get to space faster, cheaper, better than one of the largest, the largest space agency in the world. How did you get that confidence so?
- [16:07]
Elon Musk
Well, I think first of all I should say maybe give some of a preface to what happened before starting SpaceX. In fact, the way I sort of got into space was. I was really disappointed that we had not sent anyone to Mars, that we had not progressed beyond Apollo. And I kept waiting for when we would and it just didn't happen year after year. And so a friend of mine asked me about what I wanted to do after PayPal and I thought, well, you know, I was always curious about space, but I didn't think about that there was anything I could do in space. And I went to the NASA website to just see when are we going to Mars? And I couldn't find that out. I thought maybe it was there but well hidden or something. So then I thought, well, perhaps this is a question of will. Is there sufficient will to do this? And the first idea I came up with was actually to do a philanthropic mission to send a small greenhouse to the surface of Mars with seeds and dehydrated gel that would hydrate upon landing. And you'd have this cool greenhouse with green plants on a red background. That would be the money shot. And then people like precedents and superlatives. So it would be the first life on another planet furthest that life's ever traveled. And that would get people excited. And you also learn A lot about what it took to support Earth plants in a greenhouse on Mars. The whole purpose of that was to get people excited about sending people to Mars and increase NASA's budget. So that was my whole goal. I was going to basically torch. Yeah, It had nothing to do with competing with NASA. In fact, my goal was to increase their budget. And I should say that today NASA is our biggest customer. We've got almost 50 launches, and about a quarter of those are for NASA, but 3/4 commercial. But 1/4 NASA. And NASA's been incredibly supportive and helpful. And we wouldn't be where we are today without the help of NASA. So it's really got nothing to do with competing with NASA. It's really just about what do we need to do to have an exciting, inspiring future in space. That's what I think really matters.
- [18:44]
Interviewer
But at the end of the day, you didn't end up raising the money to pay NASA to do the mission. You ended up doing it building your own company and ideally to do it cheaper than governments could.
- [18:55]
Elon Musk
Yeah. So I was able to figure out how to get the cost of the spacecraft and the greenhouse and the communication system way less than it normally would cost for such a thing. I got stuck on the rocket and I went to Russia three times to try to buy a couple of their biggest ICBMs. This is about. This is in 2001, late 2001 and 2002. It was definitely an interesting experience. And I sort of got the feeling I could have bought the nuke too, but didn't want to go there. And then when I got back from the third trip to Russia, that's when I thought, okay, look, even if we do, even if we buy these ICBMs from Russia, I thought my initial supposition was wrong. And so what I thought really was that we'd lost the world to explore, that we'd lost the world to push the boundary. And in retrospect, that was actually a very foolish error because the United States is a nation of explorers. United States is a distillation of the human spirit of exploration. It's ludicrous to actually, in retrospect, to have made such an assumption. But people need to believe that it's possible and that it's not going to bankrupt them. It's not. They're not going to have to give up something important like health care. You know, it's going to be a cost that isn't going to meaningfully affect their standard of living. And I think the United States would absolutely be super, super excited about sending people to Mars, and I think a lot of people really wish that that would occur. Anyway, so that was what I came to the conclusion of. And I thought, well, if we don't make a difference in the cost of the rocket or the transport system, it's all. It doesn't matter. It's not. Like I said, it's not a question of will, it's a question of way. And so that's when I came back and started SpaceX. But when I started SpaceX, it wasn't with the perspective of, like, we'll just, you know, take over the world with awesome rockets. I don't know what the fuck I was doing. I was, like, clueless. I thought the most likely outcome was that we would fail, and the first three rockets did fail, so.
- [21:34]
Interviewer
And you put all your money into
- [21:35]
Elon Musk
it between Tesla, SpaceX and SolarCity all in. Yeah, that wasn't the plan at the beginning, by the way.
- [21:47]
Interviewer
And Peter Thiel says we don't think big anymore. You must have interesting conversations with him about that.
- [21:53]
Elon Musk
Well, you know, Peter's been a big supporter, actually, so he's. He invested in SpaceX at a very important time in 2008, before we reached orbit, after our third failure, but before our first success. So, you know, big credit to Peter and Luke Nosek and the other guys at Founders Fund, basically. My buddies from PayPal. My buddies from PayPal saved my butt, you know. It was really, really good.
- [22:26]
Interviewer
So let's talk about cars. Many, many in the audience may recollect the notorious New York Times review of the Model S. Yes, exactly. Of the Model S earlier this year, and your reaction to that review and the Times reaction to your reaction and the effect on your share price and on orders and all that. And without rehashing the review or the facts, I'd like you to just to post mortem the entire experience.
- [22:57]
Elon Musk
Wait, how do I not. How do I do a postmortem without any facts or anything?
- [23:04]
Interviewer
Postmortem, your reaction to the review and what, you know, put you on the couch and what would you do differently today, having seen the way it all played out?
- [23:18]
Elon Musk
Well, I think. I think there's one thing I didn't do, and maybe still should, which is to post the rebuttal to the rebuttal, because I withheld that and waited for the public editor. I sent that information to the public public editor, waited for her to do her sort of thing, and she came down kind of on the side of Tesla with respect to the fact that the article was an Error. But disagreed on the motive.
- [23:53]
Interviewer
On the ethics.
- [23:54]
Elon Musk
Yes.
- [23:58]
Interviewer
Because you impugned both facts and ethics.
- [24:01]
Elon Musk
I did, yes. And I think it was. I think it was. I would call it a low grade ethics violation. Not like a big one. I don't think he thought he was doing anything particularly terrible. But I would call it a low grade violation. Not of the Jason Blair crazy fabrication variety, but I would call it a low grade. It was not in good faith. That's an important point. And I probably should have posted that rebuttal to make that clear. But I didn't do it. That's what I regret.
- [24:39]
Interviewer
So the only change you would make is that the very last bit, the rebuttal that you wrote but has not been published. You would get out there.
- [24:46]
Elon Musk
Maybe I should. You would get out there, yeah.
- [24:49]
Interviewer
So you would continue to use the same language in the same way.
- [24:52]
Elon Musk
I don't think the language was inaccurate. I really don't.
- [24:59]
Interviewer
You've often, You've often said that one of your management techniques, one of the secrets of your success is that you listen to negative feedback.
- [25:10]
Elon Musk
Yes.
- [25:12]
Interviewer
Was it Times review? Not didn't fall into the category of negative feedback.
- [25:16]
Elon Musk
I have no problem with negative feedback. I have a problem with. Nor do I have a problem with critical reviews. If I had a problem with critical reviews, I would spend all my time battling critical reviews. There have been hundreds of negative articles. Hundreds. And yet I've only spoken out a few times. I don't have a problem with critical reviews. I have a problem with false reviews.
- [25:39]
Interviewer
All right.
- [25:41]
Grainger Advertiser 1
When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in and fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [26:11]
Grainger Advertiser 2
This is the story of the 1. As a maintenance tech at a university, he knows ordering from multiple suppliers takes time away from keeping their arena up and running. That's why he counts on Granger to get everything he needs, from lighting and H vac parts to plumbing supplies all in one place. And with fast, dependable delivery, he's stocked and ready for the next tip off. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [26:42]
Interviewer
One of the technologies that you had to, you know, basically develop to near perfection or at least work on. Hardest was lithium batteries. For the electric cars run on lithium batteries. Safety has always been an issue, accidents, et cetera. Recently Boeing had fires with their lithium batteries and the Dreamliners now out of service because of that. You volunteered to help the Boeing executives, I guess, diagnose and redesign. Can you talk a little bit about what they did wrong, what you would have done differently? And what do you think, think that the future of Boeing and others airline batteries are going to be?
- [27:19]
Elon Musk
Sure. Well, first of all, on the Boeing front, I mean, Obviously even though SpaceX and Boeing compete on the space side, we have no competition on the commercial airliner side. And some of the comments that I made about Boeing have somehow been perverted as an attack on Boeing when it is in fact not an attack on Boeing. The only reason I actually, I mean the main reason I should say I offered help was that there's a friend of mine, Richard Branson, whose airline is suffering as a result of this lithium ion fire and he was mentioning that he's losing hundreds of millions or his airline is as a result of this problem. I said, well, I think we could probably help. So he said, oh great, well let me connect you with the chief engineer of the 787. I said, cool, we're happy to help. So I provided some advice and hopefully that'll be helpful. And I said we're also happy to actually do the solution if you want and haven't taken us up on that offer. But we're happy to help either in an advisory capacity or to do the solution. Whatever would result in the787 getting back to flight sooner. We're just trying to be productive and helpful. So I mean, I think in the case of the battery, Boeing doesn't have a ton of in house battery expertise, so they outsourced the battery and then you had a whole bunch of kind of nested outsourcing where they outsourced the battery system and then that got outsourced to another company, then to another company and then to a whole bunch of other companies. And you were like four layers deep before you actually got to any hardware. And so that resulted in I think kind of a breakdown of communication. I mean, from an architectural standpoint, the fundamental issue is that the, is that I think is that the cells are too big, the battery cells are too big and the gaps between the battery cells are not big enough. And the problem with a big battery cell is that the thermal pathway is in a worst case scenario. Is very long. So you have to say, well, if there's a hot spot in the battery, can it get its heat out? And if it's deep in a cell, it can't do that. And it's also hard to thermally condition the cells. The life of the pack will be dependent upon on the temperature. Not the average temperature, but the worst temperature at any point. Point in any cell. So you want to really even that temperature out. That's why Tesla is a fan of having lots of small cells and then actively cooling each cell to keep the temperature even and make sure that if hotspot does develop, it's a very short pathway to the cooling system and it can, you know, take care of it. And you also want to make sure that it's. I'm getting quite technical here, sorry. It's. It's passive propagation proof. So even if your active cooling system fails and you get thermal runaway in a cell, that thermal runaway event can't cascade into a neighboring cell and you get the thermal domino effect. Right. I mean, it's not super complicated. So. It just. If, if you have big cells, you want big gaps, and ideally you don't want big cells, but if you do, you want big gaps, small cells, small gaps.
- [30:54]
Interviewer
I mean, so, I mean, this is really important because the whole thing about this new generation of airplanes is that they're light, they use composites, they use electronics rather than mechanical systems, and so electricity drives the whole thing. So basically my understanding is that you need lithium batteries in the sky. It just doesn't work any other way. And your point is it can be done?
- [31:13]
Elon Musk
Oh, totally can be done, yeah. Like, lithium's getting a bit of a bad name here. Lithium is obviously the way to go. I mean, people have lithium ion batteries in their cell phones and their laptops. I mean, I don't think anyone's panicking here with the fact that they got a lithium ion battery, you know, next to a sensitive region probably of their body, you know.
- [31:34]
Interviewer
Got it. Well, so just staying on power for one last set of questions before we. Before I return to your life, which seems insane.
- [31:44]
Elon Musk
It is insane.
- [31:46]
Interviewer
You're also chairman of SolarCity, which I believe is America's largest solar installer. You know, so space transportation, energy, ticking off the big ones there now. You know, solar got a bad name over the last few years because of the. The cylinder meltdown, et cetera. But, you know, my sense that people different are not differentiating between the making of solar cells and the using of solar cells and, and the Chinese competition and the glutting of the market on the supply side is what Solyndra what got Solyndra in trouble. They couldn't compete with the falling prices. But you're a consumer of solar cells, right? So how do you see, you know, Chinese, Chinese competition and sort of the glut of solar, of solar cells on the market, what does that do to you?
- [32:29]
Elon Musk
I mean, I think what China's doing in the solar panel arena is awesome because they're lowering the cost of solar power for the world and they have these huge gigafactories that they created out in the Chinese desert with a ton of funding from the Chinese government. So it's like a giant donation from the tiny Chinese government. Like, thanks, that's awesome. And people sort of complain about. But I mean, obviously anyone who's been involved in the venture world knows that you don't bet a thousand. There's some companies that die. The only reason we know about Solyndra is because it became a political football. Right? And I mean, there are other sort of panel manufacturers that are still doing reasonably well. But it is tough when you're competing. I mean, I think a good rule of thumb is don't compete with China with a commodity product. You're really asking for travel in that scenario. And it's really super Easy to make 15% efficient or standard efficiency solar panels. It's super easy. It's easier than making freaking drywall at this point. So it's like, does anybody think we should be competing with China in drywall manufacturing? Okay, probably not. So that's the thing. The hard part of solar power is not the panel. It's actually the whole system. It's basically designing something that's going to fit on a particular rooftop. Because you have all these heterogeneous rooftops, then you've got to mount the system, you've got to wire it up, you've got to connect it. The inverter is connected to the grid. You've got to do all the permitting. I mean, it's a bunch of like thorny, unglamorous, stupid problems. But if somebody doesn't optimize them, they're still going to cost a ton of money. And a lot of them are really not. They're not fun problems. They're not, you know, exciting problems to optimize, but they are the problems that actually matter in the cost of solar power.
- [34:30]
Interviewer
So it's really more like a roofing contractor than it is semiconductor complement.
- [34:37]
Elon Musk
What you're doing is you're putting a second roof on A building?
- [34:39]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [34:40]
Elon Musk
Okay. So. And you got to do it at scale and then you got to manage all these systems because there's still some. I mean, even though the after sales service is small, when you've got like hundreds of thousands of systems, that's still a lot to manage. And so what SolarCity really is, is a giant distributed utility, and it's working in partnership with the house and business and in competition with the big sort of monopoly utility. I mean, I think it's like literally power to the people. Okay. It's like literally. So I think it's really awesome because utilities just never had any competition before, and now they're like, they have to actually think about the cost of power and figure out better ways to do it and that kind of thing. I think it's really great. And the credit there is really due to Lennon and Peter Rive, co founders. I mean, I throw in a few ideas every now and then, but mostly it's just about showing up at the board meeting to hear the good news. Those guys are just doing such an awesome job.
- [35:46]
Interviewer
So you are CEO and CTO of SpaceX. So not just running the company, but you're actually chief Technology officer as well. You are CEO and chief product designer for Tesla. So not just running the company, but designing the cars.
- [36:00]
Elon Musk
Yeah.
- [36:01]
Interviewer
And you're chairman of SolarCity.
- [36:03]
Elon Musk
Right.
- [36:04]
Interviewer
What is your life like?
- [36:07]
Elon Musk
It's. It's very busy and I'd actually like to take it down just a scooch, honestly, because they're. They're all these. I mean, these things that. The last few years have been really, really great. But then there were a number of years that sucked horribly, and I'd like to just not have it be so extreme. And like, last year was a year of great achievement, but honestly, I didn't have that much fun. It sucked. I didn't have that much fun. My New Year's resolution was to have a little bit more fun this year. So, hey, I'm at South by Southwest.
- [36:53]
Interviewer
And you have five children do.
- [36:55]
Elon Musk
They're awesome. Kids are awesome, by the way. You guys should all have kids. Kids are great.
- [37:02]
Interviewer
How much do you see them?
- [37:04]
Elon Musk
I don't see them enough, actually. But what I find is that I'm able to be with them and still be on email because they don't need, like, constant interaction, except when we're talking directly. So I find I can be with them and still be, you know, working at the same time. But wait, wait, are you saying you
- [37:23]
Interviewer
can do email while you're with your Children.
- [37:25]
Elon Musk
Yeah, absolutely. Sure. Wow. I mean, not all the time, but a lot of the time. That's why it's handy to have a phone. You can see sort of do email in interstitial moments. In the absence of that, I would not be able to get my job done.
- [37:46]
Interviewer
Wow, that's impressive. We are, I have five children. I can't do email while I'm with my children. It's not good for the children and it's really not good for the email.
- [37:57]
Elon Musk
Well, I do have to have a nanny there, otherwise they'll kill each other. So if you. Yeah.
- [38:04]
Interviewer
We are going to turn to audience questions at this point. Just a reminder that if you tweet your questions, hashtag ask Musk, there's a team in the back that will be selecting the ones that we haven't already covered and seem interesting. And I get them in front, maybe you can see them as well. So I'll ask the first one from David Solis. He asks, when it comes to researching, analyzing entrepreneurial opportunity, how do you go about qualifying or legitimizing presumably the idea?
- [38:32]
Elon Musk
Sure. Well, I'm not sure I'm the best guide here because things that I've chosen have not been. I've not been trying to optimize on a risk adjusted return basis. So there are like. I would not say that I went to the rocket business, the car business or the solar business thinking that it's a great opportunity. I just thought that something needed to be done in these industries in order to make a difference and that's why I did it. But in general, I do think it's worth thinking about whether what you're doing is going to result in disruptive change or not. If it's just incremental, it's unlikely to be something major. It's got to be something that's substantially better than what's gone on before.
- [39:35]
Interviewer
That cues up our next question. Really. Well, this is from Craig Legrese. Space, automotive, finance, energy, disrupted major industries. What would you do if you had a free reign over education?
- [39:49]
Elon Musk
Well, I think that the way that we currently do education is wrong. And when you see something like the Khan Academy and so forth, I think that's probably going in the right direction. Generally, you want education to be like as close to a video game as possible, like a good video game. You do not need to tell your kid to play video games. They will play video games on autopilot all day. So if you can make it interactive and engaging, then you can make education far more compelling and far Easier to do. So I think that's how it should be. And it shouldn't be that you've got like these grades where people move in lockstep and so everyone goes through, you know, goes like normally we'll go through English, math, Science and so forth from like fifth grade to sixth grade to seventh grade. Like it's an assembly line. But people are not objects on an assembly line. That's a ridiculous notion. People learn and are interested in different things at different paces. So you really want to disconnect the whole grade level thing from the subjects, allow people to progress at the fastest pace, can or are interested in, in each subject. It seems like a really obvious thing. I mean, I think like most teaching today is a lot like vaudeville where and as a result just not that compelling. It's like somebody standing up there and lecturing to you and they've done the same lecture several years in a row. They're not necessarily all that engaged in doing it. And you compare that to say Batman the Dark Knight. Okay. And then you've got like the world's best special effects, you've got the world's best director, screenwriter, multiple cuts, amazing editing, and that's amazing. But imagine if instead you had the local town aspiring actor do a one person play play version of that. That would not be compelling.
- [42:00]
Interviewer
Do you agree with Peter Thiel about the unnecessariness of university higher education?
- [42:08]
Elon Musk
I do agree with Peter's point that a university education is often unnecessary. That's not to say it's unnecessary for all people, but I think you probably learn about as much the vast majority of what you're going to learn there in the first two years. And most of it is from your classmates because you can always buy the textbooks and just read them like nobody's stopping you from doing that.
- [42:34]
Interviewer
Or go online.
- [42:35]
Elon Musk
Or go online. So now for a lot of companies, they do want to see the completion of the degree because they're looking for someone who's going to persevere and see it through to the end. And that's actually what's important to them. So it really depends on what somebody's goal is. If the goal is to start a company, I would say no point in finishing college. In my case. I had to, otherwise I'd get kicked out of the country. So that was important.
- [43:09]
Interviewer
Although you went on and got a master's degree as well, right?
- [43:13]
Elon Musk
I came out to Silicon Valley to do a PhD at Stanford in applied physics and material science to work on ultra capacitors for use in electric cars. And that's what I was going to do. And then I started to put that on hold to start a company. But since I already had my undergrad I could then get an H1B visa and that kind of thing. So the H1B visa requires a degree, but other than that I would have, if that wasn't the case, I probably would have just stopped education sooner.
- [43:39]
Interviewer
Did you not go to Wharton for.
- [43:40]
Elon Musk
Yeah, yeah, they did dual undergrad in physics and business at Wharton. I see, yeah, but it was undergrad, not masters.
- [43:46]
Interviewer
Understood. Another question from the audience from Dan Griffiths. Fill in the blank. You will be disappointed if blank does not happen in your lifetime.
- [44:01]
Elon Musk
Well, probably the most thing I've just pointed out is if, if humanity doesn't land on Mars in my lifetime, I'd be really disappointed. That would be, you know, that would probably be my biggest disappointment. And yeah, I think that's the thing I'm most concerned about because we're at this, Obviously that's what SpaceX is working on. So I'm not trying to be self serving here, but it's just, I kind of worry that we've hit this. I don't know whether our technology level will keep going or subside. And for the first time in four and a half billion years, the technology level is at the point where we can extend life to another planet, make life multi planetary. And I think it's too easy to take for granted that it's going to stay above that level. And if it doesn't and it falls below that, will it return? Who knows? The sun is gradually expanding and in about roughly 500 million years, maybe a billion years, the outside the oceans will boil and there will be no meaningful life on Earth. I mean it might be like some chemotrophs or ultra high temperature bacteria or something, but nothing that can make a spaceship. And that's like, if you think of like Maybe it's a 500 million year time frame, that's only a 10% increase in the lifespan of Earth. So if humanity had taken an extra 10% longer to get here, it wouldn't have gotten here at all. Yeah, and so far we haven't seen any signs of life from other worlds that we have. We haven't detected anything. Hopefully we do and hopefully it's not a warship coming towards us. But I just think that's the thing that really concerns me. We need to get this done and then that is the best thing we can do to ensure the continuity continued existence of humanity. So that's Why? I would say that's the most important thing.
- [46:20]
Interviewer
Do you personally, Do you personally want to step foot on Mars?
- [46:29]
Elon Musk
I do personally want to step foot on Mars, but honestly, I would be doing this even if I knew there was no chance of me going to Mars, because I think, like I said, I think it's just important that we are on a path to getting there. So I would like to go at some point. I'll go if I'm certain that SpaceX will be fine without me and that path will continue. Because you may have heard me, some of you all may have heard the joke I've made before, which is like, you know, I would like to die on Mars, just not on impact.
- [47:10]
Interviewer
Another question from the audience, we just lost that one. I don't remember who had asked this question, but the question was, which do you think is going to have more impact on the world, SpaceX or Tesla?
- [47:27]
Elon Musk
Well, I think if we look back or if historians, if I were to look back on the impact of Tesla many years from now, I think it would be that Tesla, hopefully that Tesla advanced the advent of sustainable transport by something like a decade, maybe, maybe two decades. But I do think electric cars are inevitable. In fact, I think all modes of transport will go fully electric, with the ironic exception of rockets. So that's, that's what I think. And then for SolarCity, perhaps something similar on the energy production side, sustainable energy production, then for SpaceX, hopefully SpaceX develops the technology necessary to transport large numbers of, of people and cargo to Mars. And I think that's a bigger impact, but rather what SolarCity and Tesla are about are solving what I think is the most pressing terrestrial concern, which is the sustainable production and consumption of energy, or helping solve it. I mean, there are many people solving it. And then what SpaceX is about is helping solve the biggest non terrestrial problem, which is the extension of life beyond Earth. So those are how I see it.
- [48:57]
Interviewer
We have two related questions, one that's no longer on the screen and another one that is the first was what was the best advice you ever got? And the second, and maybe you can join them in your answer, is you mentioned working with your friends Peter Thiel and Richard Branson, who influences and inspires you.
- [49:15]
Elon Musk
Sure. Well, I'm inspired by a lot of historical figures. Like one of my favorite guys is Ben Franklin. I just think he's a really good guy. I mean, he was a scientist and he also, I mean, worked in obviously publishing and the political sphere. But he kind of like, he just thought about, like, what are the problems that need to get solved and worked on those. He was just seemed like a good guy all around. So I like him and I like just the historical figures like in science and literature and I mean, huge fan of Churchill and obviously like Tesla. We named Tesla after Nikola Tesla, better than Musk Motors. And actually I haven't named any product or company after myself. But that maybe gives a sense of like, I think like Tesla is someone who deserves a lot of recognition and. Sorry, what was the.
- [50:18]
Interviewer
Well, they're all dead. Any living figures?
- [50:22]
Elon Musk
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a friend of mine, Larry Page. I think what Larry's doing and Sergey at Google. I'm really admire what they've done. I think Osley's recently dead. But Steve Jobs, who doesn't admire Steve Jobs? I think Jeff Bezos is doing some
- [50:43]
Interviewer
great things, among others, competing with you.
- [50:47]
Elon Musk
Yes, but that's a good thing. In fact, every time I see Jeff Bezos, I say, why aren't you doing more in space?
- [50:56]
Interviewer
The other half of the question was the best advice you ever got.
- [50:58]
Elon Musk
Best advice I ever got. Well, I think the, you know, the physics training is a very good training where it's a good framework for reasoning, where you're trained to think about first principles and reason from there. And that means boiling things down to the most fundamental truths and then connecting those truths in a way to try to understand how reality is. Because, you know, physics has this problem where they're trying to figure out things that are totally counterintuitive. And so they had to have a framework for getting there. Like quantum mechanics is incredibly counterintuitive, but it's true. And so you had. So physics developed a framework for figuring out things that aren't obvious. And that's why I think it's. It's a lot of advice, but it's the right framework. And then just in general, critical thinking is good. Examining whether you have the correct axioms are the most applicable axioms. Does the logic necessarily connect? And then what are the range of probable outcomes? Outcomes are usually not deterministic. They're. They're a range. And so you want to figure out what those probabilities are and make sure, ideally, that you're the house. You know, it's fine to take. It's fine to gamble as long as you're the house. And a subset of that is to listen to critical feedback, which you alluded to earlier. Always solicit critical feedback, particularly from friends, because generally they will be thinking it, but they won't tell you Yeah.
- [52:50]
Interviewer
A question here from any news or development on your hyperloop idea, and you might explain what your hyperloop idea is. Haha.
- [53:00]
Elon Musk
Well, what I've said is that I'm putting the hyperloop stuff on hold until I get Tesla to profitability. Because I think if I was an investor in Tesla and they heard me sort of spouting off about the hyperloop before I got the company profitable, they were like, hey, you know, go do your job. So that's what I'm doing. I think once Tesla is in, it has been profitable maybe for at least for a quarter, maybe two quarters. Then I'll talk about the hyperloop. But I think it could be an interesting way to. It would be an interesting way to travel really quickly from one city to the next.
- [53:38]
Interviewer
Quickly. Explain just in one sense what a hyperloop is.
- [53:41]
Elon Musk
Well, it would be something that would be say, twice as fast as a plane, at least in terms of total transit time, maybe a little faster. It would be immune to weather, incapable of crashing, pretty much, unless there's like a terrorist attack. And the ticket price would be like, let's say, half that of a plane. So it'd be better in every way.
- [54:10]
Interviewer
Train of some sort, though it's kind
- [54:13]
Elon Musk
of not exactly a train. It would be a new mode of transportation that doesn't currently exist.
- [54:20]
Interviewer
Terrestrial.
- [54:21]
Elon Musk
Terrestrial, yeah.
- [54:23]
Interviewer
Okay. Underground, above ground, could go either. A kind of subway, perhaps.
- [54:31]
Elon Musk
I think the capital cost would be less if it's mostly above ground. But you can go underground too.
- [54:37]
Interviewer
All right, maybe. Last question. What's the biggest mistake you've ever made? And this is from Lexi Hill. What's the biggest mistake you've ever made? And how did you move forward? Looking back, was it really that big a deal?
- [54:52]
Elon Musk
Biggest mistake? I've made lots of mistakes. Some of them. Some are pretty big. I mean, it's hard to say because things have worked out pretty well in the end. So how big of a mistake could it have been? As the question is really, really asking. You know, I did lots of dumb things at my first company and at PayPal. And. You know, I think sometimes, yeah, I don't know, there's so many, like, I'm hard pressed to say this is. This is the biggest.
- [55:39]
Grainger Advertiser 2
Thanks for listening.
- [55:40]
Elon Musk
See you in the next episode.