Embedded: A Good Guy – Under Oath

Podcast Information

• Title: Embedded
• Host/Author: NPR
• Episode: A Good Guy: Under Oath
• Release Date: October 31, 2024
• Description: NPR's home for audio documentaries brings untold stories to light through deeply reported narrative series. Embedded explores hidden corners of the headlines to uncover what’s been sealed off, undisclosed, or overlooked—and the people at the heart of those stories.

Overview

“A Good Guy: Under Oath” delves into the complex and contentious process of evaluating the military service of Sergeant Joshua Abate, a Marine involved in the January 6th Capitol attack. This episode explores the administrative discharge proceedings within the United States Marine Corps, the broader issue of extremism in the military ranks, and the political and personal ramifications of these evaluations.

1. The Case of Sergeant Joshua Abate

The episode opens with the background of Sergeant Joshua Abate, a third-generation Marine whose actions on January 6, 2021, led to his appearance in federal court. Instead of receiving a prison sentence, Abate was granted community service after expressing remorse. The focus of this episode shifts to the Marine Corps' determination of whether Abate remains a Marine.

Notable Quote:

• Sergeant Abate: “I have about two, two and a half weeks left in the Marine Corps, and I could have easily told my command, no, I ain’t coming up here. But my goal before I get out is to make sure I'm leaving the Marine Corps in good hands here.” [23:54]

2. Marine Corps’ Administrative Discharge Board

Abate's fate lies in the hands of an administrative discharge board at Quantico Marine Base. Unlike a court-martial, this board is tasked with an impartial hearing to decide whether Abate should continue his service or be discharged.

Process Details:

• The board consists of three Marines: two officers and a sergeant, chosen randomly.
• They review evidence, hear testimonies, and deliberate to make a decision based on the Marine Corps' strict standards.
• The prosecution argued that Abate’s actions on January 6th violated his oath to protect the Constitution and engaged in extremist activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Prosecutor: “He was chanting, carrying a flag, standing firm in the crowd as police tried to push everyone out.” [02:45]
• Marine Panelist Master Gunnery Sergeant Stephen Glue: “I have about two, two and a half weeks left in the Marine Corps, and I could have easily told my command, no, I ain't coming up here.” [23:54]

3. Defining Extremism Within the Military

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the efforts to define extremism within the military ranks. Bishop Garrison, the Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Defense for Human Capital and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI), was tasked with creating a clear definition to identify and counteract extremist behavior among service members.

Challenges Highlighted:

• Ambiguity in Definition: Extremism is subjective, making it difficult to establish a universal standard.
• Political Backlash: Garrison faced severe attacks from right-wing media and politicians, branding him an extremist and accusing him of purging patriots from the military.
• Personal Consequences: Garrison received threats and experienced personal fear for his family's safety due to his role.

Notable Quotes:

• Bishop Garrison: “[Extremism] almost has to be like a rubric. You can't make for every instance of what may or may not be extremism. It really depends on the situation and the individual.” [11:19]
• Prosecutor: “Extremist activity, active participation. Two things go together.” [12:15]

4. Political Interference and Its Impact

Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, President Kamala Harris, and other officials attempted to navigate the politicized landscape surrounding extremism in the military. Congressman Matt Gaetz aggressively questioned Austin about hiring Garrison, accusing the Pentagon of embracing critical race theory.

Key Events:

• Congressional Hearing: Austin defended Garrison’s role amidst accusations from Gaetz, highlighting the challenges in addressing extremism without infringing on constitutional rights.
• Media Attacks: Garrison was labeled a critical race theorist and a threat to the Marine Corps' integrity, complicating the implementation of his recommendations.

Notable Quotes:

• Congressman Matt Gaetz: “I am particularly concerned that you have hired a critical race theorist to give you advice on personnel matters.” [15:09]
• Secretary Austin: “We're not here to be thought police in any way, shape or form.” [12:15]

5. The Retention Hearing: Character Witnesses and Evidence

During Abate's retention hearing, character witnesses from the Marine Corps testified to his exemplary service and dedication. These testimonies aimed to present Abate as a valued Marine beyond his actions on January 6th.

Hearings Highlights:

• Character Assessments: Former and current Marines provided strong endorsements of Abate’s character, leadership, and commitment to the Corps.
• Prosecutorial Rebuttals: The prosecution reiterated the severity of Abate’s actions, emphasizing their violation of Marine Corps' values and the Constitution.

Notable Quotes:

• Colonel Todd Phoenix: “I signed off and approved a Navy Commendation Medal form. That's a pretty high bar for me to make.” [22:11]
• Prosecutor: “Have you seen security camera footage from January 6th of Sergeant Abate? No, sir.” [22:28]

6. Panel Deliberation and Decision

After extensive testimonies and evidence presentation, the Marine panel deliberated and ultimately recommended retaining Abate in the Marine Corps by a majority vote, despite acknowledging his misconduct.

Decision Details:

• The board recognized Abate’s responsibility for his actions but weighed it against his overall service record.
• The decision sparked controversy, raising questions about accountability and the influence of character witnesses in mitigating disciplinary actions.

Notable Quotes:

• Board Decision: “The preponderance of the evidence proves all acts or omissions alleged in the notification.” [25:45]
• Recommendation: “By majority vote, the board recommends retention in the Marine Corps.” [26:00]

7. Broader Implications on Extremism in the Military

The retention of Joshua Abate, along with similar decisions for other Marines involved in the Capitol attack, highlighted the ongoing struggle within the military to address extremism without compromising its values and standards.

Key Points:

• Contrast in Outcomes: While Abate was retained, another Marine, Micah Coomer, was eventually separated due to his actions.
• Ongoing Concerns: Military leaders continue to grapple with defining and countering extremism, fearing that without clear definitions and strict enforcement, future incidents may occur.

Notable Quotes:

• General Eric Smith: “What I don't want to do is hit a fly with a sledgehammer and accuse all Marines of doing something untoward, because that's just not the case.” [33:09]
• Bishop Garrison: “My biggest fear is that it's going to take some type of major, massive incident in which people get hurt, if not worse, for the department to actually stop and take action on this.” [32:07]

8. Reflections and Future Outlook

As the episode concludes, it reflects on the lingering questions surrounding the Marine Corps’ handling of extremism and the balance between upholding standards and recognizing individual character. The case of Sergeant Abate remains unresolved, pending the decision of Navy Secretary Carlos Del Toro.

Final Thoughts:

• The episode underscores the complexity of maintaining an elite military force while addressing internal threats of extremism.
• It calls into question whether the lessons from January 6th have been adequately integrated into military policies and culture.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Hodges: “Almost four years after January 6, there are still some unanswered questions, like did the military miss a chance to hold some of its own people accountable for what happened that day?” [34:27]
• Tom Bowman: “If you ask the judge who sentenced Josh, the Marines who spoke up for him, even the officers who decided to keep him in the Corps, they'd say he learned his lesson. But has he?” [34:15]

Conclusion

“A Good Guy: Under Oath” provides a nuanced examination of Sergeant Joshua Abate’s case within the broader context of extremism in the military. Through detailed reporting and firsthand accounts, the episode highlights the challenges faced by the Marine Corps in enforcing its values while addressing internal threats. The outcome of Abate’s case remains a pivotal point in understanding how the military reconciles individual actions with institutional integrity.

Credits

• Reported by Tom Bowman and Lauren Hodges.
• Edited by Luis Trayes and Andrew Sussman.
• Produced by Adelina Lanciannis.
• Additional reporting by Steve Walsh, Raina Cohen, and Rachel Faulkner.
• Music by Ramtin Arablouei.
• Special thanks to NPR’s Embedded team and sponsors.

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