The Black Gate: Like a Bullet from a Gun

Summary

Summary of NPR's Embedded Episode: "The Black Gate: Like a Bullet from a Gun"

Introduction

In the poignant second installment of "The Black Gate", NPR's Embedded delves deeper into the harrowing story of the Kuchar family, who became victims of the Chinese government's extensive crackdown on Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities in Xinjiang. This episode, reported by NPR correspondent Abdul Latif Kuchar, sheds light on the personal struggles, relentless pursuit for reunion, and the enduring trauma faced by the family members separated by oppressive policies.

Separation and Detention

The episode begins with Abdul Latif Kuchar recounting the forced deportation from Xinjiang, which resulted in the separation of his wife, Maryam, and their two young children, A.E. Sumutvala and Maryam. Abdul was left stranded in Turkey, unable to communicate with his family due to oppressive restrictions imposed by Chinese authorities.

Abdul Latif Kuchar [02:34]: "When we last left off, Abdul Latif Kuchar, a husband and father, had been deported from China's Xinjiang region. He's had to leave behind his two young children, A.E. Sumutvala and his wife Maryam."

Efforts to Reunite

Desperate to reunite with his family, Abdul Latif embarks on a relentless campaign, lobbying Turkish ministers and seeking international assistance. His wife, Maryam, also plays a pivotal role, tirelessly advocating for their children's return by meeting with local officials and presenting compelling evidence of their plight.

Maryam Kuchar [04:36]: "I couldn't sleep. Every day I had tears in my eyes. I nearly lost my voice because I was lobbying parliamentarians, ministers, mayors."

Discovery of the Children

Amidst these efforts, Abdul Latif and other parents in similar predicaments turn to social media in hopes of finding their lost children. It is through a TikTok video that Kalbinor, another affected parent, spotlights a significant breakthrough.

Nurman Kuchar [06:13]: "It was a random video, and when it began to play, of course I recognized her immediately. It was my daughter Aisha."

Abdul Latif's Return to China

Two years of public advocacy lead to an unexpected response from the Chinese government. Abdul Latif receives a message urging him to apply for a visa to return to China under stringent conditions, raising fears of a possible trap.

Abdul Latif Kuchar [07:47]: "He got a message from the Turkish Foreign Affairs Ministry. They told him, we have received information about your bid to get your children back. You and your family are smearing the government."

Despite the inherent risks, Abdul Latif accepts the conditions and returns to Xinjiang, where he is immediately met with heightened security and restricted freedom.

Reunion with the Children

Upon reuniting, Abdul Latif experiences a mixture of relief and distress as he observes his children, Lutfula and Aisoo, who have been subjected to intensive indoctrination and cultural erasure in state-run boarding schools.

Maryam Kuchar [11:36]: "They ran to me just like a bullet from a gun. It was the hardest moment in my life."

However, a significant language barrier surfaces, as the children predominantly speak Chinese, indicating a loss of their Uyghur heritage.

Maryam Kuchar [12:27]: "They spoke Chinese to me, and when they spoke to each other, they used Chinese 100% of the time."

Maryam's Imprisonment

The reunion is short-lived as Abdul Latif faces another ordeal—locating Maryam, who has been sentenced to 20 years in a Xinjiang women's prison under dubious charges of collusion with terrorist organizations. The inhumane conditions of her imprisonment, including reports of malnutrition and abuse, cast a long shadow over the family's hope.

Maryam Kuchar [16:10]: "I grabbed my wife's hand. There was no flesh at all. And I saw the shadow of handcuffs on her hand."

Children's Trauma and Recovery

Back in Istanbul, the children exhibit severe psychological trauma from their experiences. Through art therapy and Uyghur language classes, they begin the slow process of healing, though the scars of their past linger.

Nurman Kuchar [18:44]: "They were like a living corpse, in total shock. They didn't even know how to talk and what to say or where they had come from."

Interviews with the children reveal disturbing accounts of physical punishment and relentless indoctrination during their time in boarding schools.

Abdoulaye Ayup [23:05]: "Oisu is saying here the big sisters at the school, school beat us. They would not let us cry."

Final Reflections and Ongoing Struggles

The episode concludes by highlighting the unresolved anguish that permeates the community of Uyghurs affected by the Chinese government's policies. Abdul Latif's personal battle with cancer further amplifies the urgency and fragility of the family's situation, underscoring a broader narrative of loss, resilience, and the quest for justice.

Maryam Kuchar [31:11]: "But at the park I'd see other kids playing, and that reminded me of my own kids. I would ask myself, what was their crime?"

Conclusion

"The Black Gate: Like a Bullet from a Gun" is a heartrending exploration of a family's struggle against systemic oppression and the enduring human spirit in the face of unimaginable adversity. Through Abdul Latif Kuchar's unwavering determination and the Kuchar family's resilience, NPR Embedded brings to light the untold stories of those caught in the crossfire of geopolitical conflicts and human rights violations.

Transcript

[Kelly McEvers]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta Stone, an expert in language learning for 30 years. Right now, NPR listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different languages for 50% off. Learn [e-mail] NPR Hey, I'm Kelly McEvers.

[Emily Fang]

And this is embedded from NPR. And we are back with the second part of the Black Gate. It's a three part series from NPR correspondent Emily the Chinese government's detainment of Uyghurs and other Muslim groups. These detentions have been described by the UN as possibly constituting crimes against humanity. The Kuchar family is one family that was separated because of China's crackdown. If you haven't listened to the first part in the series, we recommend starting there. After the break, Emily will continue the story of a man who is desperate to find and bring his wife and children home. We'll be right back.

[Jake Kalik]

This message comes from BetterHelp. This Mental Health Awareness Month, Better Help is encouraging everyone to take care of their well being and break the stigma associated with mental health. BetterHelp works to make people healthy and happy because when people are taken care of, everyone benefits, including families, colleagues and communities. Visit betterhelp.com NPR to get 10% off your first month support for this podcast and the following message come from Made in Cookware President and Co founder Jake Kalik shares a tool that's useful for both master and newbie griller.

[Kelly McEvers]

The craftsmanship of the carbon steel griddle enhances your grilling experience because it allows you a totally different type of grill surface that opens up the amounts of food you're able to cook. So the griddle is the perfect accessory to add to your grill and kind of widen your your grilling game.

[Jake Kalik]

Learn more about Made in Cookware at M A D e I n cookware.com.

[Kelly McEvers]

This message comes from Bluehost. Bluehost can make building a great website easy and offers a 30 day money back guarantee. Customize and launch your site in minutes with AI, then optimize with built in search engine tools. Get your great [e-mail] this message comes.

[Jake Kalik]

From Warby Parker Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95 including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

When we last left off, Abdul Latif Kuchar, a husband and father, had been deported from China's Xinjiang region. He's had to leave behind his two young children, A.E. sumutvala and his wife Maryam. They hoped Chinese authorities would eventually give them back their passports so they could reunite. But in the meantime, they stayed connected by video chatting.

[Maryam Kuchar]

We would just talk about our daily lives, like what we had for breakfast and such. But later, even these calls were banned by community officials. They set specific times for when we were allowed to call each other, but we were told that they could see and listen to what we were talking about. So Maryam and I talked less and less.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Then, late one night in 2017, one of their nightly chats gets interrupted when Chinese authorities break into the Kuchar's apartment and arrest Miriam. Three months later, the family members taking care of the Kuchar children are arrested too, Abdulatif says, and the kids disappear. They aren't the only ones in this situation in Xinjiang. So many adults are taken away during this period that many children have no one left to care for them. The Chinese government acknowledges a boom in boarding schools in Xinjiang. And my own reporting suggests that many children whose parents were detained were sent to these schools. As for Abdul Latif, he can only watch this nightmare unfold from afar. He's stuck in Turkey and has no idea what's happened to Aisu and Lup. Fla. Friends and relatives in Xinjiang won't pick up the phone, or they tell him, don't call us ever again. Everyone is terrified. Abdul Latif's wife, Maryam, is a Chinese national, but his children, they are Turkish citizens. So he does the only thing he can from Turkey. He starts lobbying Turkish ministers, demanding they help him get his kids back.

[Maryam Kuchar]

I couldn't sleep. Every day I had tears in my eyes. I nearly lost my voice because I was lobbying parliamentarians, ministers, mayors. All the time. I kept searching for officials to meet, and whenever I met them, I would give them all the documents I had about my family.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

As NPR's China correspondent, I started hearing more and more reports of Uyghur parents who had managed to leave China when the detentions began, but lost their children. One of these parents is Kalbinor. Kalbinor says she left her children behind in Xinjiang in 2016 and went to Turkey to give birth to her seventh child because authorities were cracking down on women violating China's birth restrictions. And while she was away, one by one, the adults in her family in China were detained, and then her children disappeared, too.

[Nurman Kuchar]

My sister was able to tell me that my husband had been sentenced to at least 10 years in prison. I have not been able to talk to my family since. After that conversation with my sister, they won't answer the phone.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

They won't answer the phone, she thinks, either because they could get arrested for talking to people abroad, or they're already in prison, too. So Kalpanor and other Uyghur parents in Turkey started forming Facebook and WhatsApp groups to communicate. And together they desperately scoured Chinese social media, hoping they might catch glimpses of their loved ones in state propaganda videos. In late December 2018, Calbonor sees a TikTok video they found.

[Nurman Kuchar]

It was a random video, and when it began to play, of course I recognized her immediately. It was my daughter Aisha. The video shows a lot of children in uniforms, girls wearing one color, boys in another. They're sitting around a table with drinking cups, and they're learning Chinese. They're learning Chinese words for ears and eyes and so on. In the background, I can see a room with beds, so it's like a dormitory.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Kalbennor sees her little girl, Aisha, with her head shaved. She's dressed in a uniform, so it looks like she's in Chinese school with other Uyghur children. It's a terrifying hint of what their children might be going through. For Abd Latif Kuchar, this kind of scenario is his worst nightmare. The idea that his children, Lutfula and Isu, might be in state schools without family and love a place where they might be trained to reject their Uyghur identity. And here's where Abdul Latif's story diverges from that of Kalbanur's and so many others that I've heard since starting to report on Xinjiang some six years ago. After nearly two years pleading publicly for the return of his family, he actually hears back from the Chinese government. Abdul Atif's brother, Abdul Chief, remembers this moment.

[Abdul Chief]

He got a message from the Turkish Foreign Affairs Ministry. They told him, we have received information about your bid to get your children back. You and your family are smearing the government. But if you want your kids back, apply for a visa to return to China.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdul Atif was scared after this phone call. For two years since he was deported, China had forbidden him to return. Now they are telling him to come back. Was it a trap? It was impossible to know. Abdul Atief says the Chinese government also had very specific conditions under which he could return.

[Maryam Kuchar]

The Turkish government met with the Chinese embassy to negotiate and help me get a few. The Turkish diplomat said that after you go to China, you have to follow China's plans. You can't live in your own house because they will arrange accommodation for you. And you have to report back to the Chinese Embassy once you've returned to Turkey.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Of course, Abdul Latif cannot guarantee his own safety if he returns to Xinjiang. And of course he says, yes, I'll go, and anything for his family. So in November 2019, two years after his wife Maryam was arrested, Abdul Atieff gets on a plane and flies to China. The following is Abdulatif's account of how events unfolded. We confirmed dates of travel, but the rest is from his memory. Abdulatif lands in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang, and is home with Maryam for more than two decades. He immediately feels something is wrong. First, there's the security presence. He's not allowed to live in his own apartment, which has been empty since Maryam's arrest. Instead, he's driven by police straight from the airport to a special hotel.

[Maryam Kuchar]

The police reserved three rooms in the hotel. Their doors were all kept open, and my room was in between their rooms. When I went out, five or six police followed me in two patrol cars.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdul Chip would later tell me that his brother was especially shaken by the behavior of those he'd been close to.

[Abdul Chief]

Even in Urumqi, when he tried to call some of his friends, the ones who did pick up would say they'd call him back, but then never picked up their phones again. When he saw people he knew, they turned their backs and went another way. Everyone was afraid.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

So day after day, Abdul Latif waits in a local community office where Uyghurs come in and out, registering their identity papers. He keeps asking, when do I get to see my children? And he starts to panic. Maybe they've tricked him into coming to China.

[Maryam Kuchar]

They lied to me. Every day they kept telling me, not today, tomorrow. But then 10 days had gone by and they still hadn't let me see the children. I couldn't take it anymore. So I told them directly, if you don't let me meet them, I'm going back to Turkey.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdulatif continues to go to the community center day after day. Then, one cold and snowy December morning, he's told the reunification is finally happening.

[Maryam Kuchar]

Officials tell me that the kids are on their way now. I go outside to wait for the car. Then a police car drives into the yard.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdul Atif hears knocking at the car window.

[Maryam Kuchar]

I heard shouting from the car. Then I saw them.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

There in the police car are his children, Lutvela and Aisoo.

[Maryam Kuchar]

They ran to me just like a bullet from a gun. It was the hardest moment in my life. I can hardly Describe it. I can only remember that I held them. Then I lost consciousness. I don't know what happened to me. It was like my heart just stopped beating.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

He actually faints from emotion. And when he comes to, I found.

[Maryam Kuchar]

Myself on the muddy ground. There was someone feeling my forehead. The kids were on top of me. Then someone pulled me up and took our picture.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdul Latif realizes there's a state photographer following them who is furiously snapping away. So Chinese propagandists can use this moment later in state media. He also starts to notice Aisu and Lutfula don't seem to understand the Uyghur he's speaking to them.

[Maryam Kuchar]

They spoke Chinese to me, and when they spoke to each other, they used Chinese 100% of the time. I couldn't understand at all. I told them to speak Uyghur to me.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

They can't. They seem to have forgotten their native language, especially Lutfula.

[Maryam Kuchar]

He spoke Chinese just like a bird singing.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

So Abdul Latif uses a kind of pidgin Chinese, the few phrases he knows mixed with Uyghur words, to talk to his kids.

[Maryam Kuchar]

I didn't think of it as a language barrier. We could understand each other simply by looking at each other. They looked at me with smiles. I smiled at them, kissed them, held them. I could not find the words to describe how happy I was.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdulatif's Chinese handlers tell him he can bring the kids back to Turkey. They're foreign citizens and China doesn't want them. This is the reason Abdul Latif's story is different from most Uyghurs. The reason he could get his kids back. But there's one last thing to do, and that's to find Maryam. He's told she's being kept in a women's prison in the city of Kucha. So he flies to Kucha with the kids under heavy surveillance. Abd Latif says his hotel was surrounded by about 100 soldiers and 50 or 60 police officers.

[Maryam Kuchar]

They started ordering me to take out all my documents, checking my suitcase, my passport and marriage certificate. I asked them, who are you and why are you treating me like this? They said, shut up and don't ask anything. A Han Chinese person told me to get in his car and said to me, I am the one who will take you around, but you can't ask my name and you can't ask me who I work for. In fact, you can't ask any questions. And that's how I traveled.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

The officers tell Abdul Latif that he and the kids have gotten some special permission to visit Maryam and Kucha's central hospital. Abdulatif says he was told she'd be moved there from the women's prison as a concession to Turkish diplomats who'd negotiated the visit. I should mention that we reached out to the Turkish Foreign Ministry, but they declined to be interviewed for this story. China's Foreign Ministry and the Xinjiang government didn't respond to multiple requests for comment. To get into the hospital, AI Su Lutvala and Abdul Latif undergo a thorough security check and are told how to behave.

[Maryam Kuchar]

Our minders gave us 30 minutes of instruction, and the inspection was very strict. Even the children's hair was checked, and.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

They'Re told, do not hug Maryam too tightly or cry when you see her.

[Maryam Kuchar]

When we got into the room, the kids ran into their mother's arms. She was sitting on the bed, but she could not get down. She must have wanted to run to us and hold us, but no, she could only just sit on the bed.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdulatif is shocked at her physical state. She's lost so much weight, she doesn't seem to be able to stand.

[Maryam Kuchar]

I told my wife to be hopeful. God will help us. But she held my hand and said, don't say God in front of me.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Miriam also seems to have lost all her hair. She tries to comfort Ae Soo and Lutvala, telling them she's just receiving medical treatment. And despite the explicit instructions he's been given, Abdul Ateef starts to cry.

[Maryam Kuchar]

I grabbed my wife's hand. There was no flesh at all. And I saw the shadow of handcuffs on her hand. When we had to leave, I hugged my wife. I lifted her directly off the bed. When I put her down, her legs were so weak that she could not stand. I didn't want to let her go, but the staff started yelling at me, what are you doing? Why don't you obey us? That's when I said to myself, what's the point of living like this? But my children grabbed my hand. I looked at them and I thought, I have to raise these two children. I have to live for the children.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

In total, they get about 15 minutes with Maryam and then they're ushered out. That's when Abdulatif says he's told he can't take her back to Turkey. She's been sentenced to 20 years in prison for colluding with terrorist organizations. The alleged proof was that Maryam had taken a picture with Turkish President Recep Erdogan some years earlier during one of his state visits to China. Turkey has complicated relations with China, and the picture was used as evidence Maryam had suspicious ties to communities of separatist Uyghurs abroad. What haunts Abd Latif to this day is how Mer Yem must be suffering in Xinjiang. From what the family knows, she is still in a Xinjiang women's prison where malnutrition, overcrowding and sexual abuse have been reported.

[Maryam Kuchar]

I've experienced unbelievably difficult days. I do not know whether it's a test from God or what.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

After their visit with Maryam, Abdulatif and the children leave China for good. They return to Istanbul in 2021. I was able to interview the family in their Istanbul home. Abdulatif, Isu and Lutvala lived there with Abdulatis second wife, Nuraman. It's unusual, but not unheard of in Uyghur culture to have more than one wife. And when we met them, it had been more than two years since the kids got out of Xinjiang. In some ways, the kids seem like themselves again. They're quiet and polite, and they love playing chess with their father. Nurman says they have come a long way since first arriving in Turkey.

[Nurman Kuchar]

They were like a living corpse, in total shock. They didn't even know how to talk and what to say or where they had come from. Somehow we felt like we were in a dream. I didn't know what to say. My children were just looking around in shock.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdul Atief immediately brought Lutfula and Naisu to a doctor to check for signs of physical or sexual abuse.

[Maryam Kuchar]

The doctor was very careful, checking everything from the hair to their toenails. He was worried the children's internal organs had been poisoned, about whether they had taken any medicine, and so on.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Nurman, their stepmother, says they were found to be very malnourished. She started filling them up on Uyghur dishes.

[Nurman Kuchar]

Both of them are particularly weak in the body and lack nutrition.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Normans really stepped in as their surrogate mother, and throughout her interview with her, she kept calling Eisu and Lutfala her children. Over time, Abd Latif has been able to piece together what happened to Eisu and Lutfula while they'd been separated. He learned through conversations with his children that in February 2018, a few months after Meryem's arrest, authorities took Aisu, who was six at the time, and Muth Volat, who was four, and put them in separate boarding schools specifically for Uyghur children without parents. These schools are among at least 1300 boarding schools set up across the Xinjiang region. According to Education Ministry documents, Xinjiang local governments have been scrubbing their websites of all references to the boarding schools. But an official education report from 2019, 2017, which is the year before the Kuchar children were sent to the schools, says nearly half a million children had already been enrolled by the start of that year. And until Aisoo and Lutfala, no one I'd ever met had been able to get their children out. Abdul Latif had done the nearly impossible. He'd found his children and brought them back home. We'll be right back.

[Jake Kalik]

This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. This message comes from NPR sponsor Dana Farber Cancer Institute. It's called protein degradation and if you're a bad protein in a cancer cell, you'd better get your affairs in order because now, thanks to Dana Farber's foundational work, protein degradation can target cancer causing proteins and destroy them right inside the cell. This approach is making a difference in multiple myeloma and other blood cancers and is how Dana Farber is working to treat previously untreatable cancers. [e-mail] Everywhere this message comes from Progressive Insurance and the name your price tool. It helps you find car insurance options in your budget. Try it [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

I first heard about the Couchars through Abdoulaye Ayup, the language teacher who'd been arrested for starting a Uyghur kindergarten. After spending 15 months in prison, Abu Abdoulaye was eventually released. He now lives in Norway with his family and he served as my translator. When I spoke to the Kutar family.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

For this story, it's really heartbreaking because of my niece is in Chinese boarding school is in Urimqi. Yeah like it's personal for me because those kids are just like my.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Abdoulaye went to visit the Kuchars in Istanbul and translated when I spoke to them. During one conversation, Abdoulaye and Abdul Latif together asked Ae Soo about the physical punishment she faced. This is the first time a Uyghur child who went through one of these Chinese state schools is sharing their account publicly.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

Oisu is Saying here the big sisters at the school, school beat us. They would not let us cry. The teachers wouldn't punish us. But when we went back to our dormitory, the big sisters would physically punish us there behind closed door, there was nothing we could say.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

The big sisters and big brothers, older Uyghur students tasked with monitoring the younger students. Both Aisu and Lutfula remember one punishment in particular. They call it the motorcycle. When Abdoulaye asks them to show him, both Aisu and Mutfila squat and hold their arms straight out. Holding the motorcycle position for long periods of time is exhausting and painful. Abdoulaye says he had to do the same punishment when he was in prison like that.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

Lutfullah. He told me that they punished him like that motorcycle. That way I hold him and I cried because of. I had experienced that when I was in detention. And he told me that they asked him to stand against the wall like hands up, your hands like this. And it also the common practice in jail. And another third one, he told me that they asked you to stand one feet like this. It's also common practice in the jail. Like I had never imagined. Those kids punished like adults. Yeah, because they are kids. How could that be possible?

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

While in the boarding school, Aisoo told her father she eventually lost all her hair. Both kids had their heads shaved when Abdul Ateef picked them up.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

ISU says the dormitory monitors would beat her and pull her hair enough so that all her hair fell out each day.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

In the boarding school, the kids say their routine was the get up, make their bed military style, eat together, then take Chinese class after classes.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

ISU says after class she would go back to the dormitory, watch some television, then do homework. They weren't allowed to talk while doing homework, which they had to finish before watching television. I asked her what she did after she was done with all that. She said she just would stare at the ceiling in a daze if she couldn't sleep.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

They were also punished if they spoke Uyghur to each other. Only Chinese was allowed. And each day they went to class where they learned patriotic Chinese songs. Here's Abdul Latif remembering one song his children kept singing when they first arrived in Turkey. Songs praising grandfather Xi Jinping and father Wang Jun. The latter is the former security chief of Xing Jong, who has been sanctioned by numerous governments, including the US Government for human rights abuses. Aisu and Lutfula refuse to sing this song now. After the kids are settled in Istanbul, Abdulatif enrolls them in school. It is A tough transition. Remember, they'd forgotten both their native Turkish and Uyghur languages. Abdoulaye and I had the chance to speak to one of Lutfula's teachers. He didn't want to be named in the interview because discussing China's actions in Xinjiang is sensitive. Even in Turkey.

[Unnamed Teacher]

When I compare with other children, Lapfula is very calm, but he cannot speak, he cannot express himself. I did not have this problem with other children. They too were Uyghurs children from Xinjiang. They had no such problem in their ability to understand and express their.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

And the teacher notices that Lutfula is extremely fearful. He asks for permission to do everything.

[Unnamed Teacher]

When Lutfula needs to go to the toilet. We let him go himself whenever he wants, because the toilet is quite low. But Lafula does not go himself. I think he is unable to ask me for permission. His stepmother came to school and told us, teacher, can you ask him if he needs to go to the bathroom? He can't tell you himself.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

When he visited the Kuchars, Abdoulaye also had a hard time getting Lutfula to express himself.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

He always have a feeling of negotiating between himself. Is it right or wrong? Is it right or wrong? I have this feeling too. I still have this feeling. I always in hesitation, I always negotiate myself. I should do it or not? I should do it or not. I should do it. Because of its. If you frequently punished and you have this feeling, you are not decisive.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Months after returning to Turkey, the kids both continued to bear the mental scars of that experience.

[Maryam Kuchar]

They would talk in their sleep and gnash their teeth. My daughter would jump around while sleeping, just like a cat. She would keep saying no, no in her sleep. My son also could not sleep well. So I would sit all night by his side, watching him. It took about three to four months before they stopped talking in their sleep.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Aisu and Lutfula later tell their father they were sometimes kept in solitary confinement in the dark. Even now they're afraid of sleeping without the lights on. Abdoulaye was shaken when he heard this. He was also punished in this way and experiences the same fear at night.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

I'm afraid of voiceless, I'm afraid of living alone. And he is the same. He cannot even go from one room to another room alone if he is alone at home. Like those trauma reminded me that like I saw from his eyes, different version of me.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

When I interviewed them, both ISU and Lutfula were in the middle of a long recovery process. They were physically healthy, fluent in Turkish and they said they'd find forgotten all their Chinese. They were going to art therapy, and after school they attended Uyghur language classes. Abd Latif would like to see them go to university someday. That was his and Maryam's dream for them, an opportunity he was denied growing up in China. Au has already said she wants to become a doctor. But in 2020, Abdul Latif was diagnosed with cancer, and he worries he is running out of time with his children.

[Maryam Kuchar]

The illness is bothering me, but the hope is supporting me too. I am praying for Allah. I am taking every measure. If my illness gets better, I am not going to stop. If Maryam is alive, I am going to keep up my activism. If I never see Maryam again, I will become a different Abdulatif.

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

Just before police broke into Maryam's apartment, she sent Abdul Latif a video. She was going to the market with Lutzila. You can hear him chattering excitedly.

[Maryam Kuchar]

I cried every time I watched the video, but I couldn't allow my so I cried behind closed doors. Or I'd walk to a park near our house. But at the park I'd see other kids playing, and that reminded me of my own kids. I would ask myself, what was their crime?

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

That question hangs in the air for anyone who has studied or reported on Xinjiang. It floats unsaid among Uyghurs looking for their lost families. And in the minds of people who have seen loved ones imprisoned or hurt, what exactly was their crime? And there's another group of people who often find themselves confronted with that question, the Uyghurs who have become complicit in the Chinese state's oppression and persecution of other Uyghurs. In our final episode of the Black Gate, we'll hear from some of them, including the man who tried to dissuade the Kuchars from talking to me. He sees himself as a freedom fighter, while others suspect him of being a spy.

[Abdoulaye Ayup]

People suspect that. Are you working with Chinese government? Are you working for Chinese government?

[Abdul Latif Kuchar]

If you want to hear the final episode right now and before everyone else, go sign up for Embedded Plus. Embedded is the home for ambitious storytelling at npr, and subscribing to Embedded plus is a great way to support that work. Embedded plus listeners will get to easily hear each episode of the Black Gay early, and they'll get to listen sponsor free as well. Go to plus.NPR.org embedded or find the Embedded channel in Apple to find out more. And a big thanks to everyone who has already signed up.

[Emily Fang]

The song you're hearing is My Dear Son, When Will youl Return. It's by Uyghur singer and activist Rahima Mahmoud. The Black Gate is a collaboration with NPR's International Desk. It was reported by Emily Fang. Phoebe Wang produced the episode with help from Adelina Lancianniese. It was edited by Jenny Schmidt. Katie Simon is our supervising editor. Our supervising producer is Liana Simstrom. Our Executive Executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Dee Dee Skanke and Vincent Nee of NPR's International Desk. Fact checking by Naomi Sharp with help from William Chase Mastering by Robert Rodriguez with help from Gilly Moon. Abdoulaye Ayut provided help with translation and interpretation. Additional translation by Qasem Abdurrahim, Kashgar, Mametjan Jumeh Mukedes, Lee Hail, Sabina Gusbeth and Qasem Abdurahm. Kashgar did our voiceovers. Music by Ramtin Arablouei. Thanks also to Shirley Henry, Ariana Garibli, Gregory Warner, Dori Busgarin, Vanessa Castillo and the Kuchar family for sharing their story. Thanks for listening.

[Kelly McEvers]

Support for the following message comes from Paint Care making it easy to recycle leftover paint with convenient locations like your local paint store. Find a paint drop off site near [e-mail] support for this podcast and the following message come from E Trade from Morgan Stanley With E Trade you can dive into the market with easy to use tools, $0 commissions and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. Get access to industry leading research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Get started [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing Involves Risks Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.

[Jake Kalik]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Viori featuring the performance jogger. Visit viori.com NPR for 20% off your first purchase on any US orders over $75 and free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.