We Keep Us Safe: This Ain’t Coachella

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

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Embedded (NPR)

Episode: We Keep Us Safe: This Ain’t Coachella
Date: June 25, 2026
Hosts: Will James, Sydney Brownstone
Summary prepared by: [Your Name]

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Episode Overview

This episode of Embedded plunges listeners into the heart of the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest—CHOP or CHAZ—in Seattle during the summer of 2020, intertwining a narrative about the death of Antonio Mays Jr. with a close examination of how the utopian aspirations of CHOP unraveled. The episode investigates how the experimental protest encampment shifted from an exuberant festival atmosphere to an environment of fear, paranoia, and violence—raising urgent questions about communal safety and distrust, and exploring what “We Keep Us Safe” truly meant when the police left and volunteers took security into their own hands.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Setting the Scene: Utopia & Underlying Fear

• CHOP began as an “exhale” from police confrontation, transforming a city park into a liberated, police-free zone. Protests, murals, mutual aid, and an outpouring of community support characterized the early days.
• Quote (Will James, 04:20): “I really want to stress that for a moment there, it was utopia...I think we showed the world what it could be, and that's worth remembering. But...there was already something more ominous growing beneath the surface.”

2. Paranoia and Escalation: The Proud Boys Ruse

• Early on, as police left the precinct, fears of far-right attacks (especially by the Proud Boys) swept through CHOP, amplified by misleading police radio chatter.
• Quote (Sydney Brownstone, 08:05): “That night, protesters listening in on scanners heard police say armed Proud Boys might be on their way.”
• Investigative reporting revealed that Seattle police fabricated these threats as a diversion; their “ruse” drove paranoia and hardened CHOP’s security posture.
• Quote (Sydney Brownstone, 13:28): “…the agency concluded that police officers made it all up.”
• Quote (CHOP Member, 13:37): “This lie right here, this literally was a lie that went around the world.”

3. Security, Guns, and Utopian Ideals Collide

• In response, groups of volunteer “security” emerged, armed and self-identified, some donning military gear and openly carrying rifles.
• CHOP’s signature phrase, “We Keep Us Safe,” shifted from a movement ideal to a practical, sometimes militarized approach.
• The “Sentinels”—largely white and self-styled security—emerged as border guards. James Madison, a high-profile member, became a national symbol.
• Quote (James Madison, 20:20): “A lot of people out here think this is awesome. It's a nice little, like summer street fair kind of thing...But it is a powder keg...the enemies of this group of people. It is the racists. It is the fascists...”

4. Transformation: From Festival to Chaos Magnet

• CHOP began to resemble a festival, even drawing comparisons to Coachella and Burning Man. But the influx of the region’s large unsheltered population, the proliferation of drugs, and opportunistic crime transformed the dynamic—especially at night.
• Quote (Reshyla Levitt, 23:57): “Do not walk around by yourselves. Do not walk around in the dark. It is unsafe. Very, very unsafe.”
• Quote (CHOP Protester, 22:09): “Seattle, how does it feel to party in a free state? It's like a block party, similar to something like Coachella.”

5. Pivotal Violence: The Juneteenth Shooting (June 19, 2020)

• A shooting on Juneteenth left 19-year-old Lorenzo Anderson Jr. dead, marking a watershed moment. The episode contrasts the initial slow, communal police-free response with the harsh reality of emergency services refusing to enter CHOP without police escort.
• Quote (Reshyla Levitt, 28:07): “I actually watched Lorenzo Anderson bleed out while we had to knowingly witness an ambulance sitting right around the corner, waiting...So they threw him on the back of a truck, tried to rush him over to the hospital.”
• Reactions ranged from renewed resolve to deepening fear and the exodus of more moderate activists.
• Quote (CHOP Protester, 30:45): “Yo, come on, man...take that party and shit to the party. This ain't the party, bro. This ain't Coachella.”

6. Fallout and Fracture: The Aftermath

• After the shooting, CHOP’s population dwindled. Experienced volunteers left; the remaining groups became more inwardly mistrustful and militant.
• Activists like Reshyla Levitt, who continued working for de-escalation, became targets of suspicion by more radical factions.
• Quote (Reshyla, 33:04): “I had personally started to hear people calling me a rat and saying that I was a police sympathizer.”
• Her commitment: “I mostly just, you know, help keep that area safe.” (33:30)
• Emphasis on the challenges of volunteer security—struggles with conflict resolution, burn-out, and the dilemma between idealism and violence.

7. A Human Moment: A Missed Connection

• The episode closes on a poignant exchange between Reshyla and a teenage protester (Antonio Mays Jr.)—a gesture of de-escalation, solidarity, and compassion, unaware that within hours he would become the next casualty.
• Quote (Reshyla, 35:18): “If it doesn't matter here [hand on his chest]...should it matter here?”

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

| Timestamp | Speaker | Notable Quote / Moment | | --- | --- | --- | | 04:20 | Will James | “I really want to stress that for a moment there, it was utopia...” | | 08:05 | Sydney Brownstone | “That night, protesters listening in on scanners heard police say armed Proud Boys might be on their way.” | | 13:28 | Sydney Brownstone | “…the agency concluded that police officers made it all up.” | | 13:37 | CHOP Protester | “This lie right here, this literally was a lie that went around the world.” | | 20:20 | James Madison | “A lot of people out here think this is awesome...But it is a powder keg...” | | 22:09 | CHOP Protester | “Seattle, how does it feel to party in a free state? It's like a block party...” | | 23:57 | Reshyla Levitt | “Do not walk around by yourselves. Do not walk around in the dark. It is unsafe...” | | 28:07 | Reshyla Levitt | “I actually watched Lorenzo Anderson bleed out...” | | 30:45 | CHOP Protester | “Yo, come on, man...This ain't Coachella.” | | 33:04 | Reshyla Levitt | “I had personally started to hear people calling me a rat...” | | 35:18 | Reshyla Levitt | “If it doesn't matter here, [touching his chest], should it matter here?” |

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [00:15–04:20] – The initial creation and utopian spirit of CHOP.
• [07:47–13:41] – The “Proud Boys” police ruse, its exposure, and fallout.
• [15:39–21:07] – CHOP security structures and the rise of the Sentinels/James Madison.
• [22:00–24:09] – The transformation into a festival/chaos magnet, emerging dangers.
• [25:39–32:13] – The Juneteenth shooting of Lorenzo Anderson Jr., the collapse of safety, shift in atmosphere.
• [32:13–35:42] – The fracturing of trust, struggles with de-escalation, the fateful encounter with Antonio Mays Jr.

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Tone & Language

The episode is empathic and reflective, yet unflinching—recounting both the hope and horror of CHOP in 2020. The hosts maintain a narrative, documentary-style tone, centering both collective dynamics and individual voices. Many segments retain the direct, raw language of CHOP’s participants.

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Conclusion

“We Keep Us Safe: This Ain’t Coachella” interrogates the fragile boundaries between community defense and vigilantism, utopian idealism and dangerous reality. By tracing CHOP’s descent from festive experiment to tragedy-laden cautionary tale, the episode underscores the complexities—and perils—of self-policing, trust, and safety under extraordinary circumstances. The episode closes with a cliffhanger, hinting at the next chapter in Antonio Mays Jr.'s story.

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Transcript

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[Will James]

Heads up. This episode contains explicit language and the sound of gun violence. You'll also hear intense audio of confrontations between protesters and police, including the sound of flashbangs and other loud booming noises. Previously on We Keep us safe.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Antonio Jr. Left his home for Seattle on June 23, 2020, without telling his dad. He was shot and killed at the Seattle protest less than a week later.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

You see a shadow outside the passenger door of the white Jeep. Unless you see any shells on the ground, pick those up, pocket them, take them home.

[Sydney Brownstone]

At that time, protests were happening across the country.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Say his name. Dwight.

[Will James]

But Seattle was different.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

God damn it. They got me, you motherfuckers.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Police stop protesters. Worst fears materialized. There was a car that started to accelerate.

[Will James]

The violence protesters faced actually galvanized the movement.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

The police are now moving out. The street is going to open up.

[Reshyla Levitt]

That kind of sparked this idea of we should stay.

[Will James]

At the very beginning of Chop, it felt like a giant exhale. The standoff was over. The tear gas was gone. This spot that for the past week had been a showdown between police and protesters was now a police free zone. At the heart of Chop was a big, green city park. At night, you could see dozens of tents for people who were staying there. And during the day, thousands of people converged on this space. Protesters painted murals in the streets and set up a stage for speeches and protest songs.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Yo, yo, It's a beautiful thing to be alone.

[Sydney Brownstone]

My dad in the Philadelphia suburbs is watching the news and is afraid that Seattle has been taken over by radical anarchists. And he calls me all freaked out, and I'm like, dad, dad, it's okay. Let me FaceTime with you right now. And I walked him through chop. People had dangled extension cords from windows so protesters living in the park could charge their phones. There were all these tables and tents stacked with donations and bottled water.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

When we sing we want our world to change we have to sing it like we want our world to change Right here in three. Seattle, look. I want my world to change I want my world to change.

[Reshyla Levitt]

It evolved into this community, the community of people that were coming together to serve the area that we were occupying better than the city was doing in our eyes.

[Sydney Brownstone]

This is Reshyla Levitt, one of Chop's emerging leaders, who we met in the Last episode, she says CHOP was a place where protesters poured their energy into supporting each other and the homeless population staying in the park.

[Reshyla Levitt]

We had soup kitchens. We started a community garden.

[Will James]

There's lettuces over there.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Those look like chives, maybe.

[Reshyla Levitt]

We were feeding everybody.

[Will James]

Local restaurants were donating food, lots of food and snacks.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Again, this is all free.

[Will James]

And protesters kept up their demands. They kept pushing for city leaders to cut the police budget by at least half and invest in social services.

[Sydney Brownstone]

And so the demand that I put on the list is that we take some of the $400 million that we give to the Seattle Police Department every year, and instead we put the money into community services that know how to help people in crisis without utilizing things.

[Will James]

I really want to stress that for a moment there, it was utopia. This guy Atrus volunteered as a medic during the standoff, and then he stuck around to see what this new thing would be like. We're using his codename. A lot of people went by code names at CHOP because he's worried about the professional consequences of using his real name. I sent my wife and son up during the day to check it out because it was. Yeah, it was a place of beauty at first. Yeah, I think we showed the world what it could be, and that's worth remembering. But amid all of these sunny feelings, there was already something more ominous growing beneath the surface.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Protesters felt this fragile new thing they were building could come under attack at any moment from right wing extremists or even the police. Some of them decided they needed guns to protect the camp.

[Will James]

CHOP existed for three weeks. During that time, a conflict played out between these two aspects of it. The gentler utopian side and the more extreme and dangerous one. By the time Antonio Mays Jr. Arrived in Chop's final week, the utopia had faded and the more dangerous side had prevailed. From NPR's embedded with KUOW and the Seattle Times, this is we keep us safe. Hi, I'm Will James.

[Sydney Brownstone]

And I'm Sydney Brownstone. This is episode three.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Support for NPR comes from IBM on Smart Talks with IBM. Host Malcolm Gladwell speaks with leaders who are pushing the boundaries of AI and technology in partnership with IBM.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Hello. Hello.

[Will James]

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I sat down with Alon Cohen, who leads research and development at ufc, to discuss the complexity of using technology to analyze fight data.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

With kick to the head, it makes contact with the outside of my arm,

[Will James]

which I brought up.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

In our world, that's a blocked strike. Yeah, but teaching a computer what exactly that means and when and how. Like when my arm is up, that's a block. When my arm is down and hits my shoulder, that's not. It's those nuances that proved incredibly difficult for machines to be able to handle for a very, very long time.

[Will James]

That is, until IBM entered the octagon.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Listen to Smart Talks with IBM wherever you get your podcasts.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

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[Will James]

There's a very clear moment that led to a lot of the fear and paranoia that would eventually take over chopped and it started on the night the police left the precinct and the occupation began.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

It looks like a few of them might be open carrying, but right now they seem pretty peaceful.

[Sydney Brownstone]

That night, protesters listening in on scanners heard police say armed Proud Boys might be on their way. We actually got a hold of these recordings through a records request.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Seems like they're kind of starting to muster up, maybe thinking about marching around. Just be advised the group very boisterous tonight.

[Will James]

This confirms a fear that protesters were going to be attacked and this fear spread through the occupation. They just lived through an incident in which a car had driven toward a crowd of protesters and the driver had shot one of them. And that was fresh on their minds as some protesters listened to the scanner that night.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Taking my group down around City hall to monitor the group of the Proud Boys

[Will James]

later that night, one protester seems ready to help defend the occupation. This moment was caught on video.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Somebody over the age of 18 know how to use a gun? Hey, I got you. Just don't say any names.

[Will James]

Raz Simone is a local hip hop artist and one of the most recognizable protesters. He was even involved in talks with City Hall. In the video you can see Raz popping the trunk of his white Tesla, taking out a rifle and passing it to someone.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Take the clip out and put it back in.

[Will James]

You can hear someone off screen giving this guy tips on how to handle the gun.

[Sydney Brownstone]

They want to know why the gun's tonight.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Just the energy that's out right now. There's possible threats to be nervous. It Might be misinformation, it might be lies. So we're just, just being ready.

[Will James]

This video goes viral. There are pundits calling Raz a warlord. And it becomes a defining moment at chop. Pete Hegseth and Tucker Carlson, both Fox News hosts at the time, comment on it. This is a guy handing out assault

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

rifles inside an autonomous zone taking over

[Will James]

as a quasi police who thinks he's the leader. Raz Simone was an up and coming rapper.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Now he's a monarch.

[Will James]

But the proud boys never showed up that night. And then the sun rises on this new occupation.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Everybody knows we're on the free.

[Will James]

That first day, a couple of police officers venture into this new zone to try to figure out what's going on.

[Sydney Brownstone]

What they find is a bunch of makeshift barricades around what seems to be a border of chopper. These rows of metal fences, they look sort of like bike racks. Are blocking off one of the main roads in the neighborhood. The two officers walk past the barricades and start chatting with the protesters. At first it's pretty friendly.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

I thought, I thought I recognized you. It's nice to see you again. I'm Jeff. I'm Jeff.

[Will James]

A group of people wearing kind of unusual outfits approaches. One is wearing paws and a tail.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

That is quite an outfit.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Thank you.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Yeah, a lot of work on that tail. I'm like self appointed safety committee, community watch. Just fucking, just sure. I've been since 5pm walking around.

[Sydney Brownstone]

These people describe themselves as a kind of neighborhood watch for the protest. One guy comes up and gives a cop a fist bump and then another person shows up.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

All you pigs, get the fuck out. This is an autonomous zone and you just. No, no, no, no. I am sorry. We were just having a nice conversation. We're just talking about. You can go and ask the mayor to come down here and talk to us. That's who we want to talk.

[Will James]

The person saying this seems to be a white man. He's wearing all black, black pants, black leather jacket and he's armed. You can see a gun strapped around his right thigh.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Why don't you just talk?

[Will James]

Why don't we talk up there?

[Sydney Brownstone]

One of the other protesters tries to calm things down.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Let me, let me try to de escalate. We can escort you out of this facility right here. This is an autonomous zone and you are welcome to leave it right now. I mean, I want to talk just like you guys. I mean, you want to talk, let's just talk. Let's talk up there on the other side of that barricade. Let's go. Happy to walk up there. Let's go. Could you tell me who I'm talking to so at least you're talking to a Seattle citizen, a resident. De escalation. De escalation. De escalation.

[Sydney Brownstone]

The two officers walked away. But this moment helped determine the relationship police would have with CHOP going forward. The Seattle police decided to take a hands off approach and would only enter the zone for the most serious emergencies

[Will James]

in the days ahead. Guns and barricades would become an even bigger part of chop. When we ask protesters today why they were so focused on securing the zone, the most common answer we get is that it's because of those proud boys they heard about over the scanner. Omari Salisbury, the journalist who livestreamed the protests that summer, never forgot about that chatter. He was still thinking about it a few months after CHOP ended.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

If an officer witnessed 30 Proud Boys, you know what I'm saying? Or 30 unidentifiable people with firearms going through downtown Seattle, I said I want to see the body camera footage that aligns with this radio call right here.

[Will James]

Omari filed a public records request, and it turned out there wasn't any body camera footage of the proud boys.

[Sydney Brownstone]

This triggered an investigation by Seattle's Office of Police Accountability, and the agency concluded that police officers made it all up.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

This lie right here, this literally was a lie that went around the world.

[Will James]

Police told investigators they were just messing around on the radio trying to make protesters think they were still using one channel, when really they'd move their communications to a different one. And they filled that fake channel with random conversation to keep it active so that protesters wouldn't get suspicious.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

We were just kind of feeding information, more mundane, routine kind of information over the radio. One echo is upset because he lost his vegetarian meal. Check for disturbance for a male throwing live chickens into the roadway. Units on TAC 3, be advised, the cookies are not nut free.

[Will James]

On that first night of chop, in addition to the random chatter, some officers started talking about the Proud boys.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Do you feel the goal was to

[Will James]

create fear in the protesters who were monitoring the radio?

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

No, I think the majority of the fear was on our side at that time because we'd been overrun on multiple occasions. I've never been attacked by the proud boys. I have been at protest by antifa. So I think that focusing on the proud boys is not the right thing here.

[Will James]

Seattle's Office of Police accountability ended up calling this an improper ruse that violated department policy. Investigators blamed two officers for overseeing it, though they both left the department before any disciplinary Action was taken. We still don't know all the officers who participated or why. We asked Seattle police about this, but they declined to talk with us.

[Sydney Brownstone]

If the ruse was intended to scare protesters away, it backfired pretty dramatically. Afterwards, CHOP security expanded and chop's borders hardened. Throughout chop's existence, there were different factions calling themselves Security. They were protesters volunteering to keep CHOP safe. Some carried guns, some didn't.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

I think CHOP was a chaos magnet that just attracted people, some with good, some with bad intentions.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Greg Scruggs is a reporter at the Seattle Times. He sits maybe 15ft away from me and I'm pretty loud on some of my phone calls. And he overheard me talking about chop, came up to my desk and told me, hey, I wrote a freelance piece about CHOP security.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

I think it was for the Washington Post that I ended up embedding with the CHOP security and writing about that experience.

[Sydney Brownstone]

He said, yeah, I'll give you all my tape.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

What's your name? My name is Josh. Josh, do you mind sharing your last name? I'd rather not, given the nature of the situation. I'll give you my face.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Greg was reporting on CHOP Security in its earliest days. We're talking about the first week. So Greg saw the idealism, the free food and the mutual aid. And then he noticed that there were people walking around looking like they were dressed for war.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Can you tell me specifically, I'm not very familiar with firearms. AR15, that's an AR15. AR15. If they were carrying a gun openly, that was usually an indication that they were a self styled security person. Tactical gear. Like I might have seen some bulletproof vests. Okay. Would bulletproof be an accurate term to use? Yes, it would. Okay. And it just covers the vitals, the lungs and the heart. Right.

[Will James]

When Greg approached them, they seemed eager to talk about what they were doing to show off their gear. Washington's an open carry state, so it's legal here to walk around with guns in public.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

What's that? This? This is concussive BB grenade. It's non lethal. It just stinks. Uh huh. I used to play with them as kids. Actually kind of a rowdy kid.

[Will James]

It was like they wanted to be secretive but also wanted to be seen.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

How would you approach a violent crime situation? Like somebody, you know, an active shooter or kind of like the most extreme? If it was an active shooter, I would try and find someone who could eliminate the situation. What does eliminate the situation mean? Stop them. And options for stopping could include what? Armed response.

[Sydney Brownstone]

There is a saying at chop, we keep US safe. This phrase started years earlier with black activists. It was a vision for preventing violence that didn't involve police or prisons. And it's been adopted by many different movements since then.

[Will James]

But at chop, we keep us safe seem to take on a specific meaning, like we're going to take security into our own hands.

[Sydney Brownstone]

There was one security group in particular that took this mantra to heart, and it was mostly white. They called themselves the Sentinels.

[Will James]

This group popped up in the first few days of the occupation and took on the role of guarding chop's barricades. They handed out radios, organized communications, and coordinated who was stationed at the borders of this roughly 8 block zone.

[Sydney Brownstone]

During chop, most people were introduced to the Sentinels through its most famous member, a figure who went by the code name James Madison.

[Will James]

James Madison has transitioned since 2020, so you'll hear us using she her pronouns. We reached out to interview her, but she declined to talk with us. Protesters back then probably remember someone who seemed to be a confident, almost brash young man who had one of the most iconic looks.

[Sydney Brownstone]

At chop, she typically wore a face mask, oftentimes tan pants, a bulletproof vest, and usually carried around an AR15 style rifle.

[Will James]

All you ever really saw of James Madison's face was this little sliver of skin around her eyes, like she was part soldier, part ninja. And just a few days into this occupation, this face would come to define chop. Nationally.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Fox News published an image of James Madison in full gear for Photoshopped in front of a totally different image of smashed windows in downtown Seattle. It fed into this narrative that CHOP was a violent takeover of the city.

[Will James]

Fox News ended up apologizing for putting out this deceptive picture. But James Madison didn't shy away from the attention. She kind of reveled in it. At the height of chop, she talked for more than an hour with a podcast called yeah, but still, I'm sure

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

you've seen the photo of me running around the news. The Photoshop job. That's me.

[Sydney Brownstone]

In these interviews, Madison brags about having this really hardcore military experience.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

I did door kicker things. I did the stuff that our government doesn't speak of.

[Sydney Brownstone]

James Madison says this type of experience is necessary to defend the protesters at chop.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

A lot of people out here think this is awesome. It's a nice little, like summer street fair kind of thing. That's the vibes we get here during the day and stuff. But it is a powder keg. But not even a powder keg because of the people here, the enemies of this group of people. It is the racists. It is the fascists that still live in this country.

[Will James]

This image of CHOP security that James Madison puts out there appeals to a lot of people. At its peak, the Sentinels had dozens of volunteers.

[Sydney Brownstone]

But while volunteer security focused on the borders, CHOP medics were watching something else change from the inside.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

They needed as many people with actual medical skill as they could get.

[Will James]

Aaron was a medic at chop. We're using his middle name because he fears the repercussions of what speaking out publicly would do, both for his career and his personal safety.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

So I popped down there and was wandering around, and I found a little medic tent, and there a bunch of untrained civilians doing really, really basic festival care. Band aids, broken fingers, that kind of thing. I was like, hey, I'm fully trained. You guys need some help? And they're like, yeah.

[Sydney Brownstone]

What Aaron calls festival care, these are the injuries people sustain. Generally when they're having fun, they're throwing around a frisbee and they sprain a wrist. They take some ecstasy and forget to drink water.

[Will James]

These kinds of injuries may have started happening more at CHOP because as time went on, it started to feel less like a protest and more like a festival.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Seattle, how does it feel to party in a free state? It's like a block party, similar to something like Coachella.

[Will James]

Thousands of people had converged on the protest zone.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

It's kind of like Burning Man. It's freaking chill and awesome.

[Will James]

There were live streamers everywhere.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

What's up, everybody? But there was also, as time went on, they started inviting the houseless population in.

[Will James]

There was this facet of CHOP that overlapped very heavily with Seattle's street population. So unsheltered people, marginal people, very poor people. Seattle at the time had the third largest homeless population in the country, and

[Sydney Brownstone]

more of those people were out on the streets because of the pandemic. Shelters had quarantined or had shut their doors completely. And then CHOP appeared, and it had all this infrastructure, like tents and food and medical care. So people in need started going there.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

And that population requires a ton of medical intervention and resources.

[Will James]

In many cases, used really dangerous street drugs, synthetic drugs, and or had serious mental illnesses that caused psychosis.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

We started having to worry about overdoses, and then the overdoses evolved into assaults,

[Will James]

and along with drug use comes crime. A Seattle police intelligence report said gang members were flooding into Chop, dealing drugs, carrying guns, running into rivals, taking advantage of the absence of police. For protesters heading into their second week of occupation, this meant that as safe as CHOP might have felt, during the day it was a very different place at night.

[Reshyla Levitt]

Do not walk around by yourselves. Do not walk around in the dark. It is unsafe. Very, very unsafe.

[Will James]

That's after the break.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

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[Will James]

NPR this is Eric Glass on this American Life. One thing we like is a good mystery sometimes about really big things.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

But most times the little mysteries are the best. Our lost and found is currently filled with pants. I don't know.

[Will James]

I've never seen this happen.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Wait, this is true. This is true.

[Will James]

Mysteries of every size each week.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

This American Life. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sydney Brownstone]

On June 19, 2020, Antonio Mays Jr. Was still three or four days away from leaving home. So he wasn't there when the vibe changed. At chop. We've talked to dozens of protesters and many of them say this day was a big turning point in the story of the occupation. June 19th or Juneteenth was a big party. This is a holiday that commemorates the end of slavery. And we're at an occupied Black Lives Matter protest. So lots of people wanted to celebrate

[Will James]

that night. Sometime after 2am Two teenagers in the area who had a hit history ran into each other at chop. One of them pulled out a gun and fired, and the other teen was hit. His name was Horace Lorenzo Anderson Jr. A lot of people knew him as Lorenzo. He was 19 years old.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Come on. Come on, man.

[Reshyla Levitt]

Let him through.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Let him through.

[Will James]

As Lorenzo lies there wounded, the scene around him grows unruly. Dozens of people gather around to see what's going on. Some of them pull out their phones and start calling 911.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

911, what is your emergency? I'm looking at a man bleeding out on the street right now.

[Will James]

Meanwhile, others are trying to control the crowd and keep people back. Mark Anthony, part of Chop's circle of leaders, was there that night and says

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

the whole time we had medics. They pulled him over to the medic area. They tried to resuscitate him.

[Will James]

Chop's volunteer medics are working desperately on Lorenzo, trying to keep him alive.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

I have a gunshot, lose the left thigh and a severe head injury.

[Sydney Brownstone]

And people getting increasingly distressed and anguished as they realize the ambulance is not coming to get him.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

911, is this your emergency? Hi, I'm not a cop caller, but somebody's dying here. They're fucking bleeding out. Hello? Hello, Seattle? Can you hear me, man? We need a fucking ambulance, man. If you see the any new information, just give us a.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Ambulances won't enter the area of a recent shooting without a police escort, and police haven't arrived.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Sir, screaming into the phone's not gonna help. Oh, my God. You're not fucking worth it. If anything changes or you think it's

[Reshyla Levitt]

suspect,

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

I actually watched Lorenzo Anderson bleed out while we had to knowingly witness an ambulance sitting right around the corner waiting until they just realized, we got to get this man to a hospital or he's going to die. So they threw him on the back of a truck, tried to rush him over to the hospital.

[Sydney Brownstone]

By the time police in riot gear marched into Chop, protesters had already driven Lorenzo away themselves. He was pronounced dead at a hospital. Years later, his dad would win a $500,000 settlement from the city after suing over the city's handling of Chop and his son's shooting. We asked Seattle police to explain their response to the Juneteenth shooting. They declined. To this day, a lot of people in Seattle mix up. Lorenzo and Antonio Mays Jr. They were both black teens. They were both killed at CHOP only nine days apart. But there are major differences between what happened to Lorenzo and what happened to Antonio. Lorenzo's killer has been caught and pleaded guilty, and we know that he was motivated by a personal dispute, whereas so much of Antonio's death remains a mystery.

[Will James]

After Lorenzo was shot, protesters gather on the playfield right across the street from where he had just lay dying. It's the middle of the night, and stadium lights shine down on the field. Reshyla Levitt, one of the people who's risen up as one of the leaders of this movement, takes a megaphone. And at first, her message to the crowd is, this tragedy will not derail Chop.

[Reshyla Levitt]

Attention to the negativity over there. We're going to come back to the circle, and we're going to continue the dialogue. We're going to continue to lift up the black voices that are hurting right now. We're going to continue to have a dialogue of what is happening.

[Sydney Brownstone]

But then the stadium lights cut out and the tone shifts. The reality of what just happened seems to sink in.

[Reshyla Levitt]

This is a safety precaution. Now that the lights are off, it is imperative that if you do leave this area, you travel in a pair. Do not walk around by yourselves. When we're done here, I advise you to go to your tents where you sleep in and to stay there. Do not walk around in the dark. It is unsafe.

[Will James]

The megaphone gets passed around to other protesters, and it's clear some resentment is brewing. One of the protesters blames this violence on the people who've shown up to party.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Yo, come on, man. Shit. I've been telling tell you guys, day after day after day after day, take that party and shit to the party. This ain't the party, bro. This ain't Coachella.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Before Lorenzo's death, it had still been possible to ignore the signs that Chop was spiraling out of control. But now that someone had died, no one could deny that Chop had changed.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

The whole space felt darker and angrier. A lot more just, hey, this guy tried to stab me and I've got this bad cut. Or, hey, I just got beaten, or, hey, I'm just scared. Can you help me?

[Will James]

A lot of people, like Aaron, the medic we heard from earlier, remember Juneteenth as the moment many of the more casual protesters finally bailed from Chop. It was also when a lot of the more experienced security and medical volunteers decided it was time to leave.

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

A lot of the warm and fuzzy groups that were peaceful quickly departed. And it was a lot more militant.

[Will James]

The Chop that saw thousands of people streaming in during the day, that was over. But there were still dozens of people staying at night. Some of them had nowhere to go. For others, maybe they wanted to take advantage of the chaos. And maybe some just couldn't let this experiment fail.

[Sydney Brownstone]

About a week after Lorenzo died, Reshyla was still there.

[Reshyla Levitt]

I slept there, I ate there, showered when I could.

[Sydney Brownstone]

But her relationship with the movement had changed. Early in the protests, she'd been willing to call out violence and property damage. She'd talked to the media. She'd sat across from the mayor in negotiations.

[Will James]

And this came at a cost. More radical protesters came to see Reshaila as not hardcore enough, even kind of suspicious. And this was happening all over chop. Protesters turning on each other, accusing each other of being ops of working for the police or the city government.

[Reshyla Levitt]

I had personally started to hear people calling me a rat and saying that I was a police sympathizer.

[Will James]

And some of them gave Rashaila the nickname boots.

[Reshyla Levitt]

And at first I thought it was just because I was always wearing my boots. I have combat boots that I wear every. Every day. Somebody had let me know that they were calling me that because they were calling me bootlicker. And I'm sitting here like, bro.

[Sydney Brownstone]

What Reshaila's response was to focus on protecting chop, to keep trying to make this experiment work after so many others had bailed.

[Reshyla Levitt]

I mostly just, you know, help keep that area safe.

[Sydney Brownstone]

She started working with CHOP security on the de escalation team.

[Reshyla Levitt]

If we're going to have security, then we need to have people out there that are good with people that can talk to people, that can talk somebody down from a frustrating situation that can de escalate the situation.

[Will James]

Nine days after Lorenzo's death, Reshyla says she was making the rounds with her de escalation partner, and they came across two teenagers getting into a fight on the playfield. They moved in to break it up. Reshyla's partner took one teenager aside, and Rashaila took the other.

[Reshyla Levitt]

I talked to him like I talked to my nephews, to be honest with you. I was like, how could you have handled that situation differently? You know, what triggered you to react the way that you did?

[Will James]

Rashaila didn't remember what this kid was upset about, but she says he was worked up. He was angry.

[Reshyla Levitt]

He's like, I get frustrated sometimes. And he's like, I'm not really sure how to, like, handle it. I remember him saying something about, like, his friends and not wanting to seem like a pussy or whatever, something like that. And I told him, I was like, you have to not give a fuck about what other people think about you.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Reshyla had just lived through something like that herself. Fellow protesters accusing her of being a rat. She knew firsthand how much other people's opinions can destabilize you.

[Reshyla Levitt]

We talked about different ways that he could channel his own inner peace and try to find that quiet space within himself when he does get frustrated. I had, like, grabbed his hands when I said that. I was like, if it doesn't matter here, and I touched his chest right here. And I was. Then I reached on and I grabbed his hand. I was like, should it matter here,

[Will James]

she was saying, if it really doesn't matter in your heart, it shouldn't affect how you act. Reshyla encouraged the boys to shake hands and they walked away.

[Reshyla Levitt]

And that was it.

[Will James]

Rashaila had no idea that the boy she'd just talked to, Antonio Mays Jr. Would be shot dead just a few hours later.

[Sydney Brownstone]

So what happened when Antonio got to Chop? How did this teenager who left home to fight for the cause end up fighting with other people? That's on the next episode of We Keep Us Safe.

[Will James]

We've got some new evidence on our website this week. Check out a map of CHOP and listen to a recording of Seattle Police Radio CHOP chatter. You can find that on npr.org chop

[Sydney Brownstone]

we keep us safe from NPR's embedded is a collaboration with the Seattle Times and KUOW. The series is reported and written by me, Sydney Brownstone, David Gutman and Will James.

[Will James]

This episode was edited by Luis Treas and Laura Grenius with support from Katie Simon.

[Sydney Brownstone]

It was produced by by Abby Wendle, Sarah Wyman and Dan Girma. Our senior producer is Adelina Lanciannis.

[Will James]

Additional reporting by Greg Scruggs and Omari Salisbury who contributed recordings to this project and livestreamer Joey Weiser. Research and fact checking by Danya Solomon and Miyoko Wolf.

[Sydney Brownstone]

Robert Rodriguez mastered the episode.

[Will James]

Music by AudioSocket Connor Moore from Seymour Sound, Ramtin Arablouei, Susie Analog, Tom Pyle and Running Dog Music and Universal Music production.

[Sydney Brownstone]

And a big thanks to our NPR supporters. Embedded is where we do ambitious long form journalism at NPR and NPR helps keep that work going. Supporters also get to listen to every Embedded episode early. Find out more at.

[Reshyla Levitt]

Plus

[Sydney Brownstone]

if you'd like to email the show, you can reach [e-mail] I'm Sydney Brownstone. This is embedded from NPR. Thanks for listening.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

This message comes from Prolon. Want to look and feel your best this spring? Prolon's five Day Fasting Mimicking Diet is a clinically developed nutrition program with the goal of promoting fat loss while protecting lean body mass. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, it aims to assist the body in entering a fasting like state that helps reset metabolism, target visceral fat and support healthy metabolic markers. Get 20% off plus a bonus gift when you [e-mail] NPR

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Every episode of It's Been a Minute. NPR's what's Happening in Culture podcast starts by asking three questions.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Who? How?

[CHOP Protester / Security Member]

Why now? If the culture's asking it, we're talking about it at NPR. We stand for your right to be curious and indulge your cultural curiosity. Follow It's Been a Minute wherever you get your podcasts and we'll break down the zeitgeisty topics that are filling your feedback.