Podcast Summary:

Emerging Litigation Podcast
Episode: Authentic Business Development for Litigators: Stop Chasing Cases and Start Building Clients with John Reed
Host: Tom Hagy
Guest: John Reed, Founder & Chief Relationship Officer, Rain BDM
Date: October 10, 2025

Overview

This episode dives into the challenges and opportunities for litigators looking to build authentic, sustainable business relationships rather than simply reacting to litigation as it arises. Tom Hagy and John Reed discuss how personality—introvert vs. extrovert—impacts legal business development, the evolving generational workplace, and concrete approaches for growing a litigation practice in a way that’s both genuine and effective.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Litigator Mindset: From Reactive to Proactive

Timestamp: 04:51–05:49

• Traditional Approach: Litigators are often trained to be reactive—responding to being sued rather than seeking out proactive opportunities.
• John Reed:

  “The thing I hear most about business development from litigators is, ‘I don’t know when somebody’s going to get sued…’ That ship has sailed.”
  (05:00)

• Reed argues that waiting for disputes prevents lawyers from forming deeper, ongoing relationships with clients.
• Instead: Seek to understand clients’ businesses and become a partner who engages before anything "hits the fan."

2. Personality Types & Business Development

Timestamp: 07:56–13:51

• Research Basis: John references the Myers-Briggs legal personality survey by Larry Richards, highlighting that only about 20% of lawyers fit the classic “extroverted, hard-charging” mold, but introverts are also common and can thrive.
  • Myers-Briggs: Litigators often EN types (Extroverted, Intuitive), but introverts are a significant portion too.
  • John Reed:

    “I am, believe it or not, an introvert. What I’m technically called, or clinically called, is an ambivert…”
    (09:10)

• Effective Strategies for Introverts:
  • Leverage strengths such as writing blogs, one-on-one outreach, and thoughtful content, rather than forced large-scale networking.
  • Collaborate on content with desired clients—such as articles or webinars—to develop organic, mutual relationships.
  • Tom Hagy:

    “Inviting somebody, a potential client…to co-author…that is a very organic way to develop that relationship…”
    (14:41)

3. Early Career & Remote Lawyering

Timestamp: 16:45–24:21

• Challenges: New lawyers rarely receive sufficient on-the-job business development training, especially working remotely.
  • Partner-associate time is diminished, and hierarchies can complicate relationship-building.
  • John Reed:

    “…you have to get guidance, you have to seek guidance, you have to be a sponge.”
    (19:41)

• Generation Gaps: Young attorneys may default to less-personal means (text, email), influenced by a culture of digital communication.
• Mentorship Needed: Both associates and partners must work at mentoring, especially as in-office spontaneous feedback lessens.

4. Building an Authentic Litigator Brand

Timestamp: 26:16–31:32

• Defining "Brand":
  • Not just logos or taglines; a brand is a promise—how you consistently show up for the client.
  • Four key aspects: role, skill, context, and style—with style (your personal approach) as the differentiator.
• John Reed:

  “The differentiator is the style…how you do what you do could be the thing that sets you apart.”
  (29:22)

• Authenticity: Young lawyers should find and amplify their own approach rather than imitate senior attorneys.
  • “Figure out your style…you’re gonna, it’s gonna be more authentic.” – Tom Hagy
    (30:04)

5. Earning a Reputation Beyond "Doing a Good Job"

Timestamp: 31:33–35:26

• Doing quality work is just table stakes; it doesn’t guarantee growth.
  • “Doing a good job is…not a growth move.” – John Reed (31:58)
• Key to Referral and Retention:
  • Demonstrate what it’s like to work with you. Talk about clients’ lives, not just cases.
    • Develop trusted advisor status—where clients seek personal recommendations, not just legal advice.

6. Deepening Client Relationships

Timestamp: 35:26–37:32

• Go Beyond the Office:
  • Visit clients’ workplaces, learn about their operations, meet their team—“learn by walking around.”
  • Reed:

    “If you go to meet with the CFO…walk past the HR director’s office…expand your relationship that way.”
    (36:25)

• Expand the Network:
  • Ask clients who else they rely on (CPAs, advisors) and seek introductions—build a network around your clients.

7. Practical Tips for Daily/Weekly Business Development

Timestamp: 37:32–39:30

1. Expand the Orbit:
   • Meet your client’s other trusted professionals. Leverage mutual relationships for both better service and referral growth.
2. Action-Oriented Follow-Up:
   • After every meeting, ask: “What did I learn that I can act on?” (not just “when should I call?”)
     • Send recommendations, referrals, or thoughtful personal gestures based on what you learned.
   • “The action is, I’m going to make that recommendation…I’m going to send them that book…” – John Reed
     (39:18)

8. Relationship-Building Stories

Timestamp: 41:20–44:56

• The Whiskey Bottle Story:
  • An attorney learns a client collects antique bottles; sends a relevant gift after a meeting, rekindling the relationship.

  “She couldn’t call fast enough to say thank you. I can’t believe you picked up on that…”
  (42:30)

• The "Mayor of the Rink" Story:
  • An introverted lawyer is coached to socialize with other parents at his kids’ hockey games, leading to an opportunity to ride with a new CEO and build a valuable new client relationship.

  “Oh, you’re the mayor of the rink. You know everybody!”
  (43:31)

9. Giving Back: Leader Dogs for the Blind

Timestamp: 40:03–41:12

• John Reed chairs Leader Dogs for the Blind, which offers independence to people with vision loss via dog partnerships and mobility training—exemplifying all-around client care and empathy.

Notable Quotes

• “You have to look beyond the dispute, and not wait for the dispute…look for other ways to build that relationship.”
  – John Reed (05:31)
• “I think what I’m technically called, or clinically called, is an ambivert.”
  – John Reed (09:10)
• “It opens the door: you’ve got instant credibility when people are looking for people to comment or speak or write.”
  – John Reed (16:18)
• “Always, always, always find ways to demonstrate what it’s like to work with you.”
  – John Reed (33:04)
• “If you want to really go into the economics of it, when you get to the trusted advisor level, you’re rate-increase proof…That lawyer’s sticky.”
  – John Reed (34:39)
• “Always be curious…and to a lesser extent, always be conversing, because that’s how you learn.”
  – John Reed (26:01)

Memorable Moments

• Tom and John’s mutual confessions of introversion, and strategies for making networking less painful (07:56–13:51)
• Discussion of “mayor of the rink” as a metaphor for non-traditional networking—turning everyday situations into opportunities
• Reed’s argument that business development and brand for lawyers is not about self-promotion, but about matching promise, delivery, and authentic style

Actionable Takeaways

• Stop waiting for cases—begin building relationships and understanding your clients’ business proactively.
• Embrace your personality type—introverts excel at content, one-on-one meetings, and thoughtful outreach.
• Define your authentic brand: role, skills, context, and personal style.
• Instead of just “doing a good job,” work towards trusted advisor status by showing care, curiosity, and broader interest in your clients’ worlds.
• Take practical steps after every meeting to deepen relationships—referrals, thoughtful notes, or personal gestures based on what you’ve learned.

For more information on John Reed or to discuss business development strategies for litigators, visit RainBDM.com. For more about Leader Dogs for the Blind, see leaderdog.org.