202. Long John Silver: The Truth Behind Treasure Island

Summary

Episode Summary: Empire - Episode 202: Long John Silver: The Truth Behind Treasure Island

In Episode 202 of Empire, hosted by Anita Anand and William Durimpel from Goalhanger, the hosts delve deep into the storied history and enduring legacy of one of literature’s most iconic fictional pirates—Long John Silver—from Robert Louis Stevenson’s Treasure Island. Released on November 12, 2024, this episode explores the intricate connections between real-life piracy, literary creation, and cultural mythology.

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Introduction to Fictional Pirates

Anita Anand and William Durimpel kick off the episode with enthusiasm for the subject of pirates, acknowledging the popularity and romanticism that surrounds these seafaring outlaws. They humorously reference their engagements with real pirates from history, including figures like Blackbeard, William Kidd, and Henry Avery, setting the stage for a discussion on how these historical personalities have been transformed into the pirates of fiction and popular culture.

Anita Anand [02:04]: "Today we're going to be discussing probably the pirates that you know better, but the ones that were not real. Or were they the fictional pirates..."

William Durimpel’s Childhood Connection to Treasure Island

William shares a personal anecdote about growing up in North Berwick, Scotland, where tales of Robert Louis Stevenson and the inspiration behind Treasure Island were prevalent. He recalls his grandmother pointing out Stevenson’s childhood home in Edinburgh and the local lore that the nearby Bass Rock and Fidra Island inspired the setting of the novel.

William Durimpel [03:56]: "Long John Silver is something that is deep in my childhood... treasure hunts, which again were inspired by Treasure Island."

Robert Louis Stevenson: From Troubled Youth to Literary Genius

The conversation shifts to Robert Louis Stevenson’s biography, focusing on his rebellious youth, unconventional lifestyle, and his eventual creation of Treasure Island. They discuss Stevenson’s troubled academic career, his bohemian lifestyle in the French Riviera, and his struggles with health and personal relationships, painting a picture of the man behind the legendary novel.

Anita Anand [18:29]: "He goes through that same sort of rebellion and starts becoming known for his outrageous dress and behavior."

The Birth of Treasure Island

Anita details the creative process Stevenson underwent while crafting Treasure Island, inspired by his interactions with Fanny Vandergrift Osborne and his stepson. The pivotal moment came when a 13-year-old boy created a treasure map, igniting Stevenson’s imagination and leading to the development of the novel’s plot and characters.

Anita Anand [25:24]: "He starts turning the rooms into a picture gallery just to keep himself occupied... the idea of Treasure Island haunts him..."

Historical Influences on Treasure Island's Characters

Delving into the historical underpinnings of Treasure Island, the hosts explore how real pirates influenced Stevenson's fictional creations. They highlight the inspirations behind characters like Long John Silver, drawing parallels to actual pirates such as Captain Edward England and the notorious La Bousse. The discussion underscores how Stevenson blended historical facts with fiction to create a compelling and believable pirate narrative.

William Durimpel [36:02]: "They have links that you can trace back... Captain Edward England and the parrot."

The Pirate Code and Its Mythologization

Anita and William examine the concept of the "pirate code" as popularized by Daniel Defoe and immortalized in Treasure Island. They argue that while the pirate code is a romanticized notion of equality and honor among pirates, historical realities were far more brutal and hierarchical.

William Durimpel [13:41]: "This is this fantasy, really... all these guys have much darker and much more hierarchical horror stories attached to them."

Cultural Legacy and Stereotypes of Pirates

The episode also touches on the lasting cultural impact of Treasure Island, particularly how it shaped the stereotypical image of pirates with Cornish accents, parrots, and wooden legs. They attribute the popularization of these traits to early cinematic portrayals, notably by actor John Newton, whose West Country accent became the definitive pirate voice.

Anita Anand [39:38]: "The accent is thanks to John Newton who played both Blackbeard and Long John Silver on screen..."

Connections to Other Literary Works and Historians

Anita shares an intriguing connection between Stevenson and Philip Gosse, a historian whose pirate collection was influenced by Stevenson's bedtime stories. This connection illustrates the ripple effect of Treasure Island on subsequent historical and literary works about piracy.

Anita Anand [34:37]: "Philip Gosse becomes obsessed with pirates because Stevenson infects him with his passion..."

Conclusion: Enduring Fascination with Pirates

Wrapping up, Anita and William reflect on the enduring fascination with pirates, both real and fictional. They emphasize how Treasure Island serves as a bridge between historical piracy and its romanticized portrayal in literature and popular culture. The hosts encourage listeners to engage with pirate lore through festivals and local traditions, highlighting the continued relevance of these tales in contemporary society.

William Durimpel [40:32]: "If you go to North Berwick in June you can join the North Berwick Robert Louis Stevenson Festival and go and take your children to dig up treasure at North Berwick beach..."

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Notable Quotes

• William Durimpel [05:59]: "He's stranded and he's sitting, doing sort of skinning goat skins..."

• Anita Anand [13:14]: "Captain Johnson's General History of Pirates, P Y R A T E S which we have concluded is pretty much, pretty much made up..."

• William Durimpel [36:37]: "These are historical stories which are actually established and drawing on that gives the starting point for this book."

• Anita Anand [26:47]: "Jim consciously turning rooms into picture galleries... the imagination of a 13-year-old that the idea of Treasure island haunts him..."

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Key Takeaways

• Treasure Island is deeply rooted in both Robert Louis Stevenson’s personal experiences and the historical accounts of real pirates.

• The fictionalization of pirates, particularly through characters like Long John Silver, has significantly influenced public perception and cultural depictions of piracy.

• Historical inaccuracies and romanticized elements in pirate lore, such as the pirate code, contrast sharply with the brutal realities of actual piracy.

• The legacy of Treasure Island extends beyond literature, affecting other historical works, cultural festivals, and even international celebrations like Talk Like a Pirate Day.

This episode of Empire offers a comprehensive exploration of how Treasure Island bridges the gap between historical piracy and its fictional portrayal, highlighting the novel’s lasting impact on both literature and popular culture.

Transcript

[William Durimpel]

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[Anita Arnand]

Hello and welcome to Empire with me, Anita Arnand and me, William Durimpel. We're just all giddy because we like this subject, pirates. And thank you for liking it too. We've had so many nice things said about it. We have been looking at real life pirates as you know, if you've been following the series. Blackbeard, William Kidd, Henry Avery. Boo. Hiss. Terrible Henry Avery.

[William Durimpel]

He's my favorite.

[Anita Arnand]

I mean he's your favorite not in.

[William Durimpel]

Real life, but he's the best story. It was extraordinary story.

[Anita Arnand]

I mean he's an appalling human being.

[William Durimpel]

Appalling, appalling human being. But what a tale.

[Anita Arnand]

It's a good story but I mean, you know, still I'm sort of team William Kidd. William Kidd with free William Kidd. Gonna get T shirts every bit as.

[William Durimpel]

Bad as the rest of them, I'm quite sure.

[Anita Arnand]

Not on the Henry Avery scale of shit. But anyway, look, today we're going to be discussing. Probably the pirates that you know better, but the ones that were not real. Or were they the fictional pirates, the ones that, you know, you've watched on screen or you've read in children's books, or, you know, you've seen pictures of on pantos through Disney and Panto. Oh, yes, you have. You know you have.

[William Durimpel]

Oh, no, you haven't.

[Anita Arnand]

Your timing is, I mean, exquisite.

[William Durimpel]

But it's extraordinary how this subject, of all subjects, should become the stuff of panthers, because it's, as we saw last time with Henry Avery, these are very gruesome stories. These are not sort of happy children's stories. These are stories of rape, pillage, looting and robbery. And yet we've managed somehow to, as we'll hear today, wave a magic wand over them and turn them into things that every kid wants to hear.

[Anita Arnand]

Oh, now, honestly, hand on heart, I did tee you up to tell everyone who we're talking about, since you haven't. We are, by the way, with our exquisite comedic timing, available for panto in 2025. Let me just tell you, I mean, I really like Captain Hook. Out of all of the characters in Peter Pan, I think there's more Hook in me than anyone else. So Captain Hook is one we're going to address. And JM Barrie. And how did he get his inspiration? But you're starting us off with arguably the most famous fictional pirate of all.

[William Durimpel]

Time, Long John Silver.

[Anita Arnand]

Step, clunk, step, clunk, step. The man with the wooden leg. It is Long John Silver. So tell me, first of all, why did you choose Long John Silver? Why does he appeal?

[William Durimpel]

Well, Long John Silver is something that is deep in my childhood. I was lucky enough to grow up in a tiny Scottish seaside town called North Berwick. And from my earliest childhood, I remember my grandmother pointing out to me the house where Robbie Lewis Stevenson used to come on his holidays. I think he was in Edinburgh. And in fact, I remember the house in Edinburgh because I think I even went to children's parties in that house where Robbie Louis Stevenson grew up. So he was very much around long before I really knew who he was. He was someone that was very much talked about in the place that I grew up. And the story always was, and there were different versions of the story. I always heard first of all that it was the Bass Rock that was the basis of Treasure Island. Looking now online and going down lots of rabbit holes, it seems it was two islands along the island of Fidra, which is off a lovely beach called Yellow Craig. And if anyone is anywhere near the east Lothian coast anytime soon. Go and walk along Yellow Craig, which is happy memories for a lot of my childhood treasure hunts, which again were inspired by Treasure Island. And this still goes on. We have in North Berwick still every summer, a Robbie Lewis Stevenson Festival. And there's treasure hunts, inevitably in maps.

[Anita Arnand]

And does everyone dress as a pirate?

[William Durimpel]

And all the kids are dressed as pirates. And I never quite believed it, to be honest, because North Berwick is as sort of clean and un piratey as anyone has ever been. It's a lovely place. It's one of the most gorgeous, gorgeous of all Scots seaside times. Recently voted by the Sunday Times the prettiest town in Britain and the best place to live in Britain. And nothing could be less threatening than North Berwick with its sort of pubs and chippies and seaside mission and all this sort of stuff going on on the beach. But allegedly this is where the idea percolated in Robbie Louis Stevenson's childhood. Going on canoe trips along the coast, going crabaneering, looking for crabs on North Berwick beach. And having the same childhood as I had, which is a lovely and strange thought. But I wish I'd come up with the idea for the Treasure island, something as lucrative as that.

[Anita Arnand]

I mean, look at the briar side glass half. This pod would never have happened if you were rich enough not to care.

[William Durimpel]

Quite true, quite true.

[Anita Arnand]

A grateful nation says. Cute. So, are you starting with Robert Lucy, or do you want to tell us a little bit about the other man who is also a great pirate producer?

[William Durimpel]

Let's start with Daniel Defoe. Exactly.

[Anita Arnand]

I think Daniel Defoe is the daddy of all pirate stories, one might say, and he sort of predates Everybody. Born in 1660, an English writer, not Scottish. One of the few Scottish people, actually. We've discovered this in our romp around the high seas with pirates. Is that many of them, if not most of the ones we've talked about, have some Scottish connection. But Defoe, very much an English writer because his was the seminal work Robinson Crusoe, which sets the archetype for so much pirate fiction in the future. You know the story of Robinson Crusoe, I'm sure, but it is a man who has been stranded on an island. He is left entirely on his own and he's sort of to stop himself going mad and waiting year upon year with his eyes upon the horizon, waiting for somebody to rescue him. He learns to, and with terrible false starts, build homes for himself, build huts for himself, make clothes for himself, survive on this island, transforming coconuts into all manners of things. And if You've seen Castaway with Tom Hanks very much in the spirit of Robinson Crusoe. Again, a man playing the survival game to try to stop himself going mad. And Robinson Crusoe was such a seminal work. But William Darrenpool did you know, all great fiction is based, as we are finding, on real life. And so there was a real castaway that grabbed the world's attention.

[William Durimpel]

And we mentioned him last week, Alexander Selkirk.

[Anita Arnand]

Yeah, I think we need to talk a little bit more about him rather than just mention him. So just remind us how he came up last week. He came up last week in the Henry Avery episode and just remind us why he came up in the Henry Avery episode.

[William Durimpel]

Because there is a story which is not verified, that Alexander Selkirk, the castaway who was the inspiration for Robinson Crusoe, was a ship member under the captain. Henry Avery on the fancy one is.

[Anita Arnand]

Very masculinely named the Fancy. Yes, that's.

[William Durimpel]

I think you aren't realizing the full resonance of the word fancy, which has a romantic sort of.

[Anita Arnand]

I swear on all that is holy, all I can think of is him on a fondant fancy, that there's this pink iced cake in the water which is blasting enemies.

[William Durimpel]

Well, as we know, Henry Avery was not one. Pink fondant had rather harsher edge to his steel than that. And apparently, anyway, according to some historians, Alexander Selkirk, the castaway, who was a real character, did spend time on Henry Avery's ship until he left it.

[Anita Arnand]

Okay, all right. Beautifully summed up. Exceptional stuff. Hugely accurate. Can I tell you a bit more about Alexander Selkirk, though, because he's really interesting. He's one of those same people who starts off as a Royal Navy officer and then becomes a Scottish privateer. And it is, you know, that transition between being legit and non legit on the high seas is a very easy.

[William Durimpel]

One to make, which is so flexible, as we've found.

[Anita Arnand]

Yeah, very, very flexible, particularly if your crew doesn't like you. And so Selkirk finds himself in this position. He is a man who's on a ship during the War of Spanish Succession. And the Cinque Port is the name of the ship. It's captained by a man called Thomas Stranding. And he is telling, Selkirk keeps telling Stranding, there's something wrong with the boat. There's something. This boat is not seaworthy. We really, honestly, I'm telling you, there's something very wrong with the boat. And he keeps saying this until the captain has had enough of this man's carp and he decides, I can do without Him. And so he just strands him in a place. It's off the coast of Colombia. It's near Malpello Island. So we're talking about 400 km from the coast of what is now Colombia. And he's just dumped there. He gives him a knife and the clothes he's wearing and pretty much. And a musket. That's very important than a musket. So Selkirk finds himself there, and he, like Robinson Crusoe, is staring constantly on the horizon. He is Fife, born and brought up.

[William Durimpel]

Like everybody we're going to see on this story.

[Anita Arnand]

According to reports, he was a quarrelsome man with an unruly disposition and had been in court before being a privateer and then stranded for indecent conduct in church. And I really wanted to go see what conducted. What did he do that's in the record in Lower Lago? What did he do in church? But he's on this island, and lucky for him, he has grown up in the house of his father, who is a shoemaker and a tanner in Lower Lago. So he's sort of, you know, imbibed through this. And it's probably that experience that saves his life, to be honest, because through what he has seen and what he decided not to be his career, very soon it becomes clear to this poor man who is. How long is he stranded? I think he's stranded for about three years on this island.

[William Durimpel]

And we haven't said that the ship he gets dumped from immediately sinks.

[Anita Arnand]

Oh, sinks. He was right. He was absolutely right about this ship not being seaworthy. It was creaking and groaning. They dump him and they go off, and the ship then promptly sinks. So, you know, if only he had the pleasure of saying, told you so. But he doesn't even know this because he's so stranded.

[William Durimpel]

He's stranded and he's sitting, doing sort of skinning goat skins is.

[Anita Arnand]

Well, that's what he does. So his clothes fray to pieces. And so then he does with his musket, he hunts animals. And he has a very finite amount of bullets, but he manages to get, in the early days, shoot for food and then skins them and then puts them to one side, thinking this will come in handy at some point. And then he learns to stitch these clothes, and he also learns to stitch coconut shells into shoes to fashion them into sandals. And in the end, when they fall apart, he doesn't need them anymore because his feet are so calloused that, you know, he feels nothing. But it is, thanks to that sort of tannery background. And that shoemaking background that he's able to stitch together, shelters to hide him away from the elements. And it is the thing that allows him to survive. He is eventually rescued, we should say.

[William Durimpel]

This is the basis for Desert Island Discs, isn't it? Because he also has a Bible.

[Anita Arnand]

He has a Bible, yes, that's right.

[William Durimpel]

He has a Bible. This. This is what you're allowed. Doesn't have the complete works of Shakespeare at this point, but.

[Anita Arnand]

Yes, but he has to wait until 1709 when a ship called the Duke notices him. The captain of the Duke takes him aboard, and he immediately becomes this overnight sensation and sort of pretty much dines off the story for the rest of his life.

[William Durimpel]

Some lovely bits of stories. He lives off feral goats and wild turnips. It's the nicest. Not a bad diet. He personally domesticates the cats of the island and gets them to catch the rats so he doesn't get overrun by rats.

[Anita Arnand]

It is an amazing story. You know, if you read Devoe's Robinson Crusoe, because he would have been like everybody else, bombarded with the story of Selkirk and how extraordinary this man was, and he sort of reproduces it.

[William Durimpel]

Nice detail for you. If you're so keen on these very feminine ships, you'll be glad to hear that the ship that picks him up is called the Duchess, which would go nicely in a fleet with the fancy.

[Anita Arnand]

That's hilarious, because I read it was the Duke. Oh, how interesting. It is the Duchess. I literally wrote down his ship was.

[William Durimpel]

The Duke captained by no less than William Dampier.

[Anita Arnand]

Right. That's so funny. I wrote down the Duke so my brain wouldn't take that on. But Defoe does more than just kind of plagiarize the life of Selkirk and reproduce it, because he does produce this thing called the pirate code. Now, tell us. I mean, this is the first time this idea of a pirate code comes into the public consciousness. Remind us, what is the pirate code, William?

[William Durimpel]

So, yes, we've talked about the pirate code before. It's this idea, this sort of. This fantasy, really. And this is one of the basis for this fantasy that all pirates are equal. That whether you're black or a slave or wherever you're from, once you're in the Jolly Roger, you are all pirates together. But we know it not to be true at all, don't we? And, in fact, all these guys have much darker and much more hierarchical horror stories attached to them. And slaves remain. Slaves, in fact, are often turned into slaves by these pirates. And Dafoe is creating the beginning of this myth. It's an attractive that generations love.

[Anita Arnand]

So the romance is there. Yes. Free men in an unfree world. You know that there is some honor among thieves. It is an honor code among these thieves. But Defoe is the seminal influence on your man, Robert Louis Stevenson, because Stevenson is beguiled by the Defoe stories, isn't he?

[William Durimpel]

So, as I say, yes, Robbie Louis Stevenson's childhood is in Edinburgh, and his parents take holidays sometimes in Fife, near Lower Lago, where Alexander Selkirk is from, and where he first hears these stor. And then partly in East Lothian, on the North Berwick coast, where he sees these islands and dreams up the idea of Treasure island and a treasure map. And that's the starting point for this novel, which becomes the single thing above all else, Treasure island, which romanticizes and, if you like, humanizes the whole story of the pirates.

[Anita Arnand]

But let's put some dates on him. So he was born in 1850. He's the only child of Thomas Stevenson and Margaret Balthus, and by all accounts was a very weak and sickly child. He had weak lungs because his mother had had weak lungs before. And so he inherits this congenital weakness. He's unusually thin. He's sort of wiry, with a narrow vulpine face like a wolf.

[William Durimpel]

He's rather handsome in middle age, and he has a kind of rather sort of dashing long hair that he wears over a velvet jacket and a kind of rather dashing mustache. But his family are famous, and my friend Bella Bathgate wrote a whole book about the Stevensons before Robbie Louis Stevenson, because they are the makers of the Scottish lighthouses. And so he grows up with lots of sea stories about, you know, all his family taking boats and going off to islands and building lighthouses on them. And, as you can imagine, lots of stories of storms and lifeboats and sailors washed ashore. And this is absolutely the milk that he drinks as a child. This is the stories which he hears at the table.

[Anita Arnand]

Robert Louis Stevenson, because I don't know him as well as William, who keeps calling him Robbie, as if he's always Robbie.

[William Durimpel]

Robbie Louis Stevenson. Definitely Robbie. Robert Louis Stevenson, once from Essex, always from Essex.

[Anita Arnand]

Prodigious talent, this man, from a very clever family that make these lighthouses. But at the age of 16, he publishes his first work of fiction, and it recounts an unsuccessful rebellion against the crown by Scottish Presbyterians known as the Covenanters, in 1666. His dad is so quarrelling with pride over his son's achievement that he publishes this pamphlet at his own Expense. I mean, talk about Nepo baby. He goes or gets him published. And this pamphlet is delivered far and wide. So Stevenson starts getting a very good reputation.

[William Durimpel]

So Covenanters are kind of. I mean, frankly, they're kind of Scottish Taliban. And I'm ashamed to say that my ancestors were among them. And they were extremist Protestants who went so far as to take inspiration for the Gospels and to refuse to meet in churches because of the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus is sitting chatting to his disciples just on a mountainside. So this is what they did in Scotland, which is the most unsuitable place to have open air because it's usually raining.

[Anita Arnand]

Can you hear? I mean, I've just come back from Dundee.

[William Durimpel]

It's very windy, very windy and very wet. But anyway, these guys burned down churches and they not only take issue with images and the usual sort of stuff that the early Protestant reformers take issue with in the Catholic Church, such as stained glass windows and illustrations of saints lives and so on, they also take issue with the churches themselves and burn them down. So all over Dumfries and the west coast, which is where the Covenanters are from, these guys systematically destroy the churches of the region. But they were also greatly romanticized in some parts of Scottish history. They're seen as these very romantic vagabonds who broke free from convention and were not part of the establishment. And I think this is what appeals to Robbie Dewey Stevenson, and he sees them as romantic figures.

[Anita Arnand]

Well, okay, so his father is proud of him for writing this Covenanter's story. He prints out his work, he gives it to all of his friends and says, show your friends. This is my boy. My boy Robbie. This is my boy. However, this sort of pride in his boy doesn't last very long because Robert Louis Stevenson or Robbie, is not great at university. He's at the University of Edinburgh and he is not doing so well. I mean, he enters very young. Is it normal for a child to enter at 16?

[William Durimpel]

I think it was at that age, absolutely. Yeah.

[Anita Arnand]

Okay. So he certainly goes to the University of edin Edinburgh at 16. But perhaps it's because the subject that is dead like an Indian dad says you're going to follow in the family footsteps, you're going to be a lighthouse engineer like me. But Robbie's wired differently. And, you know, had he gone into lighthouse engineering, the lighthouses might have been wired differently because it's not his thing at all. So instead of applying, you know, himself to his studies, he starts becoming a bit of a rebel. Now uni, I can't imagine you rebelled at uni because you rebelled all your life and you continue to do so. But I did sort of go through a slight goth phase until I realized my skin was far too dark.

[William Durimpel]

There are photographs on the Internet. I would love to see the goth and etiquette.

[Anita Arnand]

I was a wannabe. Wannabe goth for about a month, and then I just realized I just couldn't care. I wasn't pale and interesting enough. But he goes through that same sort of rebellion and starts becoming known for his outrageous dress and behavior. So he grows this cavalier mustache and twiddles it and, you know, he's got this bob haircut that he keeps throughout his life. Yeah, it's just, you know, he turns and he gets himself.

[William Durimpel]

And a wide brimmed hat.

[Anita Arnand]

Yes. And what else?

[William Durimpel]

But he also smokes hash that I can't imagine was easily available in 19th century Edinburgh and visited brothels, which probably was more available in 19th century India.

[Anita Arnand]

Well, that was probably what the extracurricular activity that most were involved in. But he wears this sort of very distinct velveteen coat and his nickname becomes Velvet Jacket at uni. And his dad is beside himself. Like, what is going to become of my boy Robbie? He started with such promise, and now he's turning into a bloody idiot.

[William Durimpel]

And he is absolutely obsessed with Daniel Defoe. And he's sitting there when he should be at college studying engineering and trying to become an engineer like his dad and uncles. He is imitating Daniel Dafoe's style and also traveling a lot. He soon gets out of Scotland, as all Scots do, and goes off to the French Riviera to recover from his ill health. And of course, once out in France, he begins to have love affairs. Falls in love with a woman called Fanny Vandergrift Osborne, which sounds like it's not going to end well.

[Anita Arnand]

Because a.

[William Durimpel]

Married but separated American woman.

[Anita Arnand]

Oh, yes, that's right.

[William Durimpel]

Eleven years his senior.

[Anita Arnand]

Right. Okay.

[William Durimpel]

Not just that she's a relation, not just the name. No.

[Anita Arnand]

Okay.

[William Durimpel]

And she's living in an artist colony. So he's quite a dashing and sort of bohemian character. He goes off to America to pursue. Pursue her there. But again, his health is too delicate. It takes a turn for the worse as he's crossing the American plains, tracking down this woman. So he ends up poor, sick and starving in Monterey in California, which is where Steinbeck also ends up. And Steinbeck finds in the low life of Monterey all the inspiration for his characters in Canary Row and Of Mice and Men.

[Anita Arnand]

Okay. And Stevenson does the same, doesn't he? And he also ends up in San Francisco. So looking out at the water and nearly dying and seeing the low life by the quays was entirely influential on him. So there he is. He's poor, he's bedraggled, he's, you know, his heart is broken, he's sick, he's looking out at the waters around San Francisco. But life is about to change. Join us after the break and find out how.

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[William Durimpel]

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[William Durimpel]

Call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Welcome back. So we left poor old Robbie Lewis Stevenson far from Scotland in Monterey, heartbroken, impoverished and sick. But things take a turn for the better quite soon after that. And he hears that Fanny has indeed obtained a divorce from her husband and on May 19, 1880, she and Stevenson were married and a year later he returns to Scotland. Now, even in the Scotland of my childhood, there was a lot of raised eyebrows about divorced women. So I can imagine that when he settles in Braemar, it's because his family want nothing to do. It would be very scandalous in the 1880s to marry a foreign woman who'd been divorced.

[Anita Arnand]

They think he's gone quite Mad with his mustache and his velvet jacket. So this is all now part of his brand, Robbie now. So yes, he sort of stays far, far away. But does Fanny have a son already when he marries? She already has a child that he kind of takes on, doesn't he? Which adds to the scandal of all of this.

[William Durimpel]

He's a well grown young man. He's 13 years old and he's come with them and they're sitting in a cottage in Braemar. So it's not as if when he begins writing Treasure island that he's at all an established writer or a successful figure or the romantic sort of dashing figure that, you know, has children's festivals named after him all over Scotland.

[Anita Arnand]

No, he's a rejected Nepo baby who has one pamphlet to his name and now his dad, who got it out there, is not talking to him. So. Yes, quite.

[William Durimpel]

Yeah. So it's a bit of a mess. But drawing on Daniel Defoe and drawing on his East Lothian childhood holidays and drawing on this story that's there in that original book on the pirates, the nonfiction book that both Blackbeard and Labour, the French pirate at the buzzard leave treasure maps. These are historical stories which are actually established and drawing on that gives the starting point for this book. Treasure island, when a treasure map is found.

[Anita Arnand]

It's even more charming than that. It starts with a home project. So Fanny's 13 year old son is busying himself around this Braemar cottage. You know, he's not got any of his friends left, he's not with his dad, you know, so he starts amusing himself.

[William Durimpel]

They're short of cash too.

[Anita Arnand]

Yeah, he does paintings using watercolors and he wants to turn this sort of drab cottage into something more beautiful. This 13 year old, you can totally see this in your mind's eye. So he starts turning the rooms into a picture gallery just to keep himself occupied. Stevenson is charmed by this and sometimes joins in. And it is on one of those occasions that he makes this map of a fictional island which he calls Treasure Island. And that is this image in the cottage on the wall in this picture gallery that is the imagination of a 13 year old that the idea of Treasure island haunts him and keeps coming back to him. This map that he's drawn just to, you know, entertain his stepson and the.

[William Durimpel]

Scottish law, which may or may not be true, is that the shape of the Treasure island which is drawn is this island of Fidra between Gillen and North Berwick in East Lothian. And it's Turned upside down. And that's the shape of the island.

[Anita Arnand]

That is so interesting. He actually talks about this map and how this sort of image keeps haunting his brain. He says, as I paused upon my map of Treasure island, the future characters of the book began to appear then visibly among imaginary woods, and their brown faces and their bright weapons peeped out at me from unexpected quarters, fighting and hunting treasure on these few square inches of a flat projection. And the next thing I knew, says Robert Louis Stevenson, I had some papers before me and was writing out a list of characters. Isn't that great?

[William Durimpel]

That's brilliant. It starts with those characters and a list of chapters. He also says that he makes at.

[Anita Arnand]

This beginning, so, you know, it's haunted by this picture and this idea that's struggling to come off the page. He decides very early on, I suppose, like Defoe as well, that this will mean more if it has some historical grit in it. So he writes to the London booksellers, very famous booksellers called Nut and Bane, and he says, can you send me all historical information about pirates in brackets, not buccaneers, but pirates like Blackbeard, because he wants facts to underpin his story, like Defoe had done with Selkirk. And he had in his mind that the prospective readership is very much going to be boys like Fanny's son. I suppose you write for who you see and who you care for. And so this sort of steady stream of books comes to him, some of which are really Dodge, by the way. You know, as we found out, a lot of the pirate factual books that were written at the time were based on nonsense, our fiction. But, you know, that's what he has, and he has a good heart in him, but he comes up with these characters. So he finds that the main character in his book is going to be Jim Hawkins, a young lad who finds a treasure map in an old sea chest belonging to a deceased sailor called Billy Bones at his family inn.

[William Durimpel]

You can't get a better name than Billy Bones. Canoe. Fantastic.

[Anita Arnand]

Yeah, exactly that. And then the voyage begins with Jim alongside a man called Dr. Livesey and someone called Squire Trelawney, who set out to try and find treasure, hiring a ship, the Hispaniola. And unknowingly, they bring aboard a man and a crew. And the man who leads this crew. Go on, you take it away. I know you want to.

[William Durimpel]

Long John Silver, no less.

[Anita Arnand]

Okay, so then what happens in the story?

[William Durimpel]

Well, of course, there's a mutiny mid voyage. Jymn overhears Long John Silver and the crew plotting mutiny, realizing Their intent, to seize the treasure for themselves. And then they go off onto the island and Jim and his allies battle Silver's pirates in a series of skirmishes while racing to find the buried treasure. And then they return, defeating the mutineers, securing the treasure. And Jymn and the remaining loyal crew return to England. But Long John Silver, who's not a sort of total villain, is he?

[Anita Arnand]

He's not a pure evil. No, he's really sympathetic, actually. He's scared of being hanged and he wants to make a bit of money and have a life, doesn't he, really?

[William Durimpel]

And he does escape with a portion of the loot. So Long John Silver is not the kind of demon that Captain Hook and some of the other sort of more dodgy fictional pirates.

[Anita Arnand]

I'll make an impassioned claim for Captain Hook in our next episode of Fictional Pirates, but let's put him to one side. But Long John Silver, I mean, you know, you will remember him, he has a parrot on his shoulder and a wooden leg. So that step thunk, step thunk when you know he's coming. So let's find out, actually, if there are, you know, real historical precedents for what is in the book. So, I mean, we know that things that have become very popular with pirates are actual things. Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight is what? His pirate.

[William Durimpel]

His pirate. His parrot.

[Anita Arnand]

Parrot. His pirate. Parrot. His parrot. His parrot keeps saying. And those are actual coins that are minted in the Americas from the late 15th century throughout to the 19th century.

[William Durimpel]

I had never worked that out. All my childhood I used to read about pieces and even played that game. Buccaneer. Played Buccaneer when you were a child.

[Anita Arnand]

What's Buccaneer?

[William Durimpel]

Buccaneer was a sort of Monopoly style board game that was sort of all about pirates. And you had diamonds and pieces of eight and treasure chests and maps and great game.

[Anita Arnand]

I played a game called Buckaroo, which is the donkey we hang.

[William Durimpel]

I was very bad at Buckaroo.

[Anita Arnand]

Not Buccaneer. Yeah, yeah, Buckaroo I liked. So that is true. We know that he would have come across stories like that of William Kidd, who had buried treasure. So, you know, there is a precedent for buried treasure and everyone is kind of a little bit obsessed with this.

[William Durimpel]

And if you remember in the story of William Kidd, we should just remind those who may not have heard that episode that William Kidd on the scaffold, tries to make a deal with the Admiralty that he will give over his treasure map if he can be taken on the trip to dig up the Treasure. And the Admiralty rather unimaginatively says no and just hangs him. So leaving that hanging, where is the treasure?

[Anita Arnand]

Literally leaving it hanging. And people are still looking for the treasure. We did tell you about some arrests that have been made in Asia. People in Vietnam, I think, people who sort of come illegally to try and dig for treasure. Anyway, look, I was looking at some of the books that he might have got from Nut and Bain, you know, this stream of books and how they might have inspired him. There is a book that was published in 1682, which was a hugely successful book, which must have been one of this stream of things that he got, which is a first, first person accounting of life as a buccaneer in the Americas by a man called Alexander Excelman. I think I'm saying it's E X Q U E M E L I N. Exquelmelin. Exquelmelin. Let's go. I think that's the Excel name. It is a real name 1682 book and it is a primary source on Caribbean raiders throughout the 1660s. So people sort of come to this man and he writes, this guy Alexander, a lot like Jim Hawkins voice. So he presents himself, he's on these voyages, but he's very much like Jim Hawkins is an innocent among thieves, you know, that he just happens to be on these voyages. So that voice. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that this is very influential on him. And it's a first person account and he describes the pirates much in the way Jim Hawkins describes the crew. There is also that very suspicious that we've talked about before. Captain Johnson's General History of Pirates, P Y R A T E S which we have concluded is pretty much, pretty.

[William Durimpel]

Much made up, but full of good stories that kicks off this whole bandwagon.

[Anita Arnand]

But it has the names, even some of the names of the pirates that end up in Stevenson's book. You can find them. So you know, Harold Davis, Edward England, Bartholomew Roberts. There's a fictionalized Israel Hands in the Stevenson's book. You know, you've got real pirates in his book, like Blackbeard, Edward Teacher, you know, makes a supporting role in there.

[William Durimpel]

And the geography, isn't it? The geography is not just the Caribbean, but it's also Madagascar, which kept coming into all our stories. Every one of our pirates that we talked about at some point goes to this famous pirate colony in Madagascar. Both William Kidd and Avery and Blackbeard. And then there's also this interesting thing which I'm longing to know more about and we haven't dealt with enough, I think this whole thing of the Malabar pirates, the pirates off the coast of Kerala, and there's a whole world of pirates that hunt down the spice ships and the had ships which are crossing the Indian coast. And we dealt with Avery in the Red Sea, capturing that incredible fleet of hadges from Aurangzeb's court. But I love all these stories of all these guys operating out of the creeks of Malabar and Goa.

[Anita Arnand]

We might come back to that. I mean, the thing is, you know, the more you do this series, people sometimes ask me, are you ever worried that you're going to run out of material? No, because we are the land of the rabbit hole and we have to like, force ourselves not to go through every rabbit hole we come across. Can I tell you a nice little nugget I found about Stevenson? Again? I'm really interested in how the formation of these works of art that then become legendary. And so I love that story of the painting of the map on the wall with Fanny's 13 year old son. But there's also another lovely story. Stevenson is friends with the parents of a guy called Philip Go Goss, and he will become the author of the 1932 History of Piracy. And the reason that Gosse becomes obsessed with pirates is because Stevenson infects him with his passion, because he tells him and his siblings pirate themed stories at bedtime. You know, so he's often over for dinner and they say, uncle Robbie, Uncle Robbie, will you tell us a story about pirates? And it infects Goss to such an extent, he builds up the most important collection of piracy books in this country. And he uses it to write a book in 1924 called the Pirates who's who, the History of Piracy. And it's the first attempt to be sort of academic about this issue of.

[William Durimpel]

Piracy and to try and work out what's true and what's not.

[Anita Arnand]

Although he didn't do a very good job. But it has to be said, because he does take on face value some of those old books that we now know to be a little bit full of nonsense. But Gosse's book collection is so extensive and so well thought of. Do you know where it is right now?

[William Durimpel]

Where is it?

[Anita Arnand]

The Royal Maritime Museum in Greenwich. So there's a direct line through Bedtime Stories and the man of Treasure island and an actual collection in an actual museum. Isn't that great?

[William Durimpel]

It would be lovely to spend time putting this all into a book, wouldn't it? It'd be great to write a pirate book. I love all that.

[Anita Arnand]

Yeah. Also, just one other little nugget, since I'm getting overexcited about these things. Ben Gunn on Treasure island, you know, this character who is also stranded. So that's very much Alexander Selkirk, who's sort of on his island as well. This stranded idea of a man like Daniel Defoe's Robinson Crusoe is a real thing. But do you remember what Ben Gunn was desperate for on the island?

[William Durimpel]

What did he want?

[Anita Arnand]

Geez, all he wants is cheese.

[William Durimpel]

I remember on my first trip to India when I was 18 years old, I remember I used to fantasize about Stilton. The one thing that I really, really longed for was a piece of Stilton.

[Anita Arnand]

How interesting. How interesting.

[William Durimpel]

Realize this is a long tradition, but, Anita, tell me about who the historical characters are based in Treasure island, because each of them, or the main characters do all have historical precedents, don't they?

[Anita Arnand]

They have links that you can trace back. So Captain Edward England and the parrot.

[William Durimpel]

So there's a real parrot behind Long John Silver's parrot?

[Anita Arnand]

There is a real parrot behind the parrot, yes. So Silver says he sailed with this man, Captain Edward England. It turns out he was real and he was one of those pirates who visited Madagascar, Malabar.

[William Durimpel]

It's the same three places, isn't it? It's that sort of pirate triangle.

[Anita Arnand]

Yes, the triumvirate of pirates. And he captured a 700 ton Portuguese galleon, allegedly laden with the wealth of the entire Viceroyalty of Goa in 1721.

[William Durimpel]

So this is the same story as La Bousse. Can you remember? I told the story of how I'd gone to the grave of La Busse and found all the rum and the.

[Anita Arnand]

Oh, yes, yes.

[William Durimpel]

So these two together, Labouse, who's French, the buzzard, and Edward England and his parrots. So a very sort of avian crew together land on the ship coming out of Goa, and it in fact is bringing the Viceroy back with all his winnings from all his time in the Indies. And I think after the attack on Aurangzeb's flagship, this is the second biggest hall that any pirate ever captures. And they split it between Edward England and La Busse. When Labuse is at the scaffold, he takes his treasure map. This is the famous image which again percolates into so much pirate literature. And he tears up the pieces of the map and throws it into the crowd. And so no one has the whole map. And everyone's trying to work out where Labusse's treasure is buried and it's never been found. And again, people continue to look for it and continue to offer offerings at Labouse's grave.

[Anita Arnand]

Yeah, you said you sort of. Did you find sort of rum.

[William Durimpel]

Rum, cigarettes and pasties.

[Anita Arnand]

Besties as well. Nice. So he real. Peter Scudamore. Peter Scudamore? Scudamore, the surgeon who amputates Long John Silver's leg. In the book, he is a real person. There was a real pirate called Peter Scudamore who was taken prisoner after the defeat and death of Captain Bartholomew Roberts. Roberts dies from a grape shot which struck him directly on the throat. And Scudamore tries to incite his fellow prisoners and also sort of Angolan slaves which are below deck, retake the ship, saying it is better venturing to do this than to proceed to Cape Corso and be hanged like a dog.

[William Durimpel]

And sun dried.

[Anita Arnand]

And sun dried, he says. But it doesn't really work because he is indeed hanged and sun dried. So, you know, there are the names which are direct links, so you can just see that Stevenson's, you know, sort of parade of books from Nut and Bane. You find them nestled in the work, if you dig.

[William Durimpel]

I'm also intrigued because in all fiction, all pirates seem to have Cornish accents. They all talk over. And here we are in this. Hanging like a dog in the sun dried. We went straight into it without thinking.

[Anita Arnand]

Well, shall I tell you what it is? My Simon sent me a note on it. I'm trying to find it. So the reason that all pirates have west country accents is because the actor who played Long John Silver and Blackbeard was a West country man. His name was John Newton and he's the first person who puts these characters on screen. And he does it with the west country accent because he grew up in Cornwall near Land's End, and he exaggerated the west country accent to make it sort of sound more interesting and different to the toffs. And so after that, you know, Newton is known as the patron saint of international talk like a Pirate Day. And that's why we all. There is an international talk like a Pirate Day.

[William Durimpel]

But again, there is a basis for this, isn't there? Trelawney in Trelawney is definitely a Cornish name. In Treasure Island, Rob Lustenson makes one of the key characters a Cornishman. And if you ever go to Cornwall, all those places like St Moore's and Hoves and Bays are full of pirate stories and smugglers.

[Anita Arnand]

Smugglers in Paris, smugglers in Paris and, you know, sort of thinking Moonfleet and all of that. But the accent is thanks to John Newton who played both Blackbeard and Long John Silver on screen and was a Cornishman and that is why we all revert to that. I Sun dried in the Sun Scurvy Dog Anyway, we talked so long about this we were going to do Peter Pan in this episode as well, JM Barrie and his island of Pirates and Peter Pan who is the scourge of the pirate Captain Hook. But we've just talked so much about this and we'll do it in the next episode. Thank you so much for listening. Do you have anything to add before we leave these fine people?

[William Durimpel]

Just that if you go to North Berwick in June you can join the North Berwick Robbie Louis Stevenson Festival and go and take your children to dig up treasure at North Berg beach which is a thing I did all my childhood and strongly recommend it.

[Anita Arnand]

Take your kids go nuts till the next time we meet. Then it's goodbye from me, Anita Arnand.

[William Durimpel]

And goodbye from me the Scurvy dog William Durham Pool.