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A
If you want access to bonus episodes, reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat community discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast ad, free listening and a weekly newsletter, sign up to empire club@www.empirepoduk.com. welcome to Narayada Island. We're back on the Narayada Island Confessions Show. Benny is about to tell us how he found two loves. Go ahead.
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B
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A
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B
I've got a lot of grandbabies. Like, a lot, a lot. And when it comes to finding a gift for each of them, you know.
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A
It could add up.
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B
But this year, while I was making my way through Walmart, I realized I don't have to spend a lot to get the gifts.
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A
They'll love an OPI Mini Mani set. I'm gonna do so much nail art.
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B
Oh, yeah, A Lego set. My own Awala water bottle.
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A
Ooh.
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B
And that's just half of them.
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Shop great gifts they're sure to love for $25 and under at Walmart.
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B
Hello and welcome to Empire with me, Anita Arn.
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A
And me, William Durimpel.
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B
Now, now, now, now. The story that we're going to concentrate on is going to involve a name that is going to be familiar to anyone from India and Pakistan. Acutely familiar, because we are brought up on childhood stories of the court of Akbar, Akbar the Great. And particularly I was brought up with stories of Akbar and his wise man, Birbal. And I'll share some of those with you because they are like Aesop's fables. But Akbar's life itself itself is a Little bit like a fairy tale, I should say. True or not true, it really, really is.
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A
And I have to say this is one of my all time favorite moments in history because Akbar is not only an improbable story in itself, it also sort of defies every stereotype that we have of medieval Muslim rulers. This is the man that is the epitome of pluralism and tolerance and open mindedness in a part of the world and representing a religion which is not usually thought of as either.
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B
I mean, he's unusual among Muslim Mughal leaders, it should be said.
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A
Oh, I mean, unique. Yeah, he is extraordinary.
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B
I mean, I think sometimes the criticism of things like the jizzy attacks which was brought in are true and evident and the lack of tolerance, you know, among some of the later Mughal rulers absolutely were a thing. But this is a man who bucks that trend. Anyway, look, let's give you dates to this and just give you a tiny little insight of why I think this sort of almost reads like a fairy tale story. If it wasn't true and you sort of presented it to a fiction editor, they'd go, is it a children's story? Because it does seem so fantastical. So we're talking about the date 1542 and to be specific, 15 October 1542. And do you remember the last time we spoke about the Mughals? We were talking about Humayun who had fallen to his death from the steps of his library and had left a note for his little son Akbar saying, you know what, I'm feeling poorly but don't worry about me. He was more worried about Akbar being sad about the fact that he, he'd fallen and sort of almost promising, I'll be back, I don't want you to worry, but this terrible thing has happened and I've hit my head. Anyway, he had reason to worry because Humayu dies as a result of this. And so Akbar, who's born in 1542, just remember her. Mayu was a fugitive at this time. And his 15 year old wife, the love that he finds in the middle of the desert when he's sort of wandering around the deserts of Sindh in Umarkort, they are like beggars, they're eating horses because they have nothing boiled in.
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A
The helmets of their last bodyguards. Lovely detail.
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B
What a fabulous detail that is. But this prince is born, the prince who is of nothing and of nowhere. He's been driven from his home in Delhi. The family is fleeing westward through the wastes of Rajasthan, trying to get to Persia, trying to get somewhere where at least they can eat and be safe. And yet this child, this child of the desert, born into nothing, born into fear and fleeing, will be one of the greatest emperors the world has ever known. So just pick up the story there about that.
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A
Yeah. What's strange is that his horoscope when he's born is incredibly optimistic. And they log this at the time. Everything's gone, everything is lost. But the Brahmins who cast his horoscope in the desert say it's auspicious in every detail, and rightly so, because it turns out this is the man who will build the largest empire in India before the British. And this is known, I mean, today. You began your introduction, Nita, very rightly saying that everyone in India and Pakistan will know this, but not many people outside India. Pakistan will. But what's interesting is that as long ago as Milton's England, Akbar was a name to conjure with. And in paradise loss. Milton has God reveal to Adam the wonders of God's creation. And where does he take him? If you're doing it today, you'd probably go to, you know, Manhattan or Shanghai or whatever the big buzzy place is of the moment. And Milton has God take Adam to Mughal Lahore and Mughal Agra during the period of Akbar. And this is because the Mughals at This point rule 100 million subjects, five times the number ruled by the Ottomans and many times that ruled by the Safavids and Isfahan, who their two big rivals. And to a man of Milton's generation, this was literally no understatement. Lahore dwarfed any city in the West. The city is second to none in Asia or in Europe, thought another European who happened to get there, who was a Portuguese priest called Father Antonio Montserrat, who we hear a lot of in this episode. He says, with regards to either size or population or wealth, it's crowded with merchants who forgather there from across Asia. There is no art or craft useful to human life which is not practiced there. The citadel alone has a circumference of 3 miles.
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B
And let's talk about the citadel. So the citadel from where Akbar will rule this immense kingdom and these millions and millions of people is in Lahore Fort, which you can still visit today. It is just an exceptionally impressive building. And it's not just India and Pakistan, these great swathes of land. Most of India, most of Pakistan, and much of Afghanistan. Yep, and Bangladesh, because let's not forget, you know, Afghanistan is a fairly recently realized phenomenon. But this was a sort of a contiguous, which is very hard back in the day because we talked about in some of the other episodes how sort of different clans, tribal, you know, they have their different tranches of land and often fight with each other. Even families fight with each other. But this is kind of a unification of an idea of India that happens under Akbar.
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A
And this is the period that the word mogul enters the English language as a synonym for luxury and might. So when the Daily Mail talks about someone being a Hollywood mogul or Trump being this real estate mogul or whatever it is, that is a reference to the impression that the moguls made at this time on the English. And it enters the English language in this way. But what is so fascinating is that, you know, history is full of rulers who are powerful and conquer and do terrible massacres and so on. But what's extraordinary about Akbar is he's one of those extraordinary rulers who conciliate and having performed some pretty nasty massacres in his teens, he then hands over his army to his enemies, the Rajputs. And in the second half of this episode when we get there, we'll meet this extraordinary figure of his friend, Raja Man Singh, who is brought up in the court with Akbar and who goes on to become his main general. It's an extraordinary story.
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B
Don't leave.
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A
Don't leave. I would ask you to do this.
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B
No, you are. You're hopping around in your chair like a man who's about to burst forth. But look, there's a lot to say about Akbar. He's a really fascinating character. So we're going to do a couple, three, I think maybe episodes on Akbar. So if you want to listen to all of our episodes on Akbar and you don't want to wait, you know, you can join our club. I should say this because it's a lovely place to be with some brilliant people. You get all sorts of things if you join the club. You don't have to wait.
- [09:13]
A
And lots of people have been joining our club with the Barber episodes. It's very nice to see.
- [09:17]
B
It is very gratifying, but it's also nice for you because, you know, look, you can listen to sort of miniseries together, say, oh well, would be a miniseries. You get early access, you get ad free listening and you get our weekly newsletter, which is a fabulous resource. So things that we talk about, follow ups, recommendations of books, places to go and see. It's a really neat piece of supportive writing. So just if you want to join our club, head to empirepoduk.com that's EmpirePod UK. Anywho, okay. Look, let's talk about dates and things. I think it's nice to anchor this in the world as well. So the reign of Aqba coincides with the reign of Elizabeth the First, the Virgin Queen, and King Philip II of Spain. So it sort of gives you an idea of context of the world where we are. And I want to go back to something that you said, which I was just so fascinated with, that I just want to know what the supportive evidence of this is that Akbar was not likely to be this man who's sort of associated with wisdom and art because he was dyslexic. So tell me how we know that he's dyslexic.
- [10:22]
A
Well, we know it from the beginning because when you remember, Humayun was in exile in Persia, and then he takes Kabul and he meets for the first time in two years his little son Akbar. And there's a great sort of fanfare as Akbar begins his education. And Akbar does not progress in his education. His father is incredibly bookish. Can you remember Humayun had his library camels that were always running off with.
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B
His books, although his father never was impressed by his writing. Babur was a horrible dad who just said, your writing is terrible.
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A
So Babur was unimpressed by Humayun's writing, and Humayun was unimpressed by Akbar's lack.
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B
Of ability to read.
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A
Well, yeah. And what they first do, of course, is they sack the teacher and they think it's his fault. Then they sack a second teacher, and then they realize that actually this guy just can't do it. And he prefers hunting and shooting and all that sort of stuff. But strangely, despite that, or maybe not strangely, but maybe as a result of that, yeah, he has this extraordinary memory, and he becomes one of the towering figures of his age. And despite his literacy, he's known in all the chronicles and all the memoirs of the time as incredibly intelligent, with this extraordinary gift for memory, but also this reputation. And this, I think, is important to remember. He, unlike Babu, who used to sort of, you know, get down with his troops and go, you know, in one of those parties, he says how half of them are taking opium and the other half are drinking. And. And like Humayun, who's always sort of, you know, going off and studying his horoscope with all his mates and all that.
- [11:51]
B
Oh, yes. At the horoscope tent, which I think is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. But, yes, hanging out with people.
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A
His twister carpet. His horoscope. Twister carpet. But Akbar is quite imperious, incredibly disciplined, an extraordinary capacity for hard work. He doesn't eat much. He is remarkable for not drinking at a time when rulers drink a lot. He doesn't even sleep much because he's up working. And he enforces his discipline in his court, which as a result, sounds rather less fun than the court of Umayyad and Babur. And while he marries, for diplomatic reasons, 300 wives, which sounds like sort of debauchery incarnate, he actually talks a great deal about sexual restraint. And to this Portuguese Jesuit, Father Montserrat.
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B
Sorry, I find that a little ripe, if you don't mind me saying.
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A
No, no, no. He tells Father Montserrat that he has a hatred of debauchery and adultery. And he's very uxurious to his main wife and the others he regards merely as diplomatic treaties. Necessities. Yeah, they're treaties.
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B
Treaty wives. Okay. Poor women anyway.
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A
Yeah, poor women. It's not great for them.
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B
There are some insights into young Akbar as well, sort of after the death of Hermayu, where he's launched into this position as a very young. I mean, how old is he? Just remind us, when Humayu dies, he's still.
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A
Is he 12 or 13, that sort of thing?
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B
He's a teenager about that. But he is the strictness. I think there are some examples which are really interesting. So, you know, as you say, Baba caroused with his troops and got drunken high with them, you know, and watched them and enjoyed all their partying, but Akbar doesn't. He has this sort of formal and distance relationship. And he wants respect. He wants to build a hierarchy. And there is a story about, you know, one of his Mongol nobles salutes him from horseback. He doesn't get off his horse and salutes him. And Akbar, to serve as an example for others, has him arrested because that is not respectful and that is not the hierarchy. And so he gets discipline in the troops. And I mean, 10 or 12 years later. So, you know, assume this is when he's in his 20s or 30s. There's another Mongol noble who arrives drunk in his court and he has him removed from the court, tied to a horse's tail just to humiliate him, because you do not turn up drunk if you are a courtier and if you are in the presence of the emperor and then has him imprisoned. So immediately and very graphically he says, this is a different reign. I am not my father and I'm definitely not my grandfather. And you will get into line.
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A
And what we See, at this period is the Mughal court changed from a place where Humayun or Barbour are down there with their nobles having a nice time carousing, to what the Mughal court remains right up until the end, which is incredibly hierarchical with all these different layers of hierarchy. And also it's a place where a lot of hard work goes on and the Jesuits are very strapped by this. Akbar's preoccupation, writes one Jesuit, Father Francis Enriquez. He says ameni and very weighty, since almost everything must be rooted through him, which is a lot. And this is done with great calmness and tranquility and without any sign of disquiet. He was very hardworking and to this end is never idle. And then there's this other guy, Nicola Manucci, who's one of my favorite characters, who's this sort of Italian con artist who turns up tending to be a doctor and writes this fabulous memoir. And he's rude about almost everyone except Akbar. Akbar is someone he really admires. He says, there is no doubt that this king was the first who brought Hindustan into subjection and was the most successful in war. If any of the Mughal kings inherited the valor and judgment of Timur, it was without contradiction, Akbar.
- [15:47]
B
So look, just again, I looked it up while you were talking. He was 13 when he became the emperor. And actually the death of his father was withheld from everyone until Akbar could be in the right position to be crowned as emperor or anointed as emperor, because emperors were not crowned in those days. That's a very Western thing. But he's already married, so, you know, he's 13. This is like just the accelerated lives of people back then because at the age of nine, he marries now. This is extraordinary. So Hindel, the treacherous shitty brother of Hamayu, who just lets him down at.
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A
Every turn, Hindel was the slightly less treacherous of all the shitty brothers.
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B
Yeah, but pretty shitty.
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A
They're the only kind of crappy one, rather than outright charlatan.
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B
That's awful. So he marries his. So he marries his cousin at the age of nine, which was a common practice to marry at that age. So he's got a wife, he's got a title, but he's also got a real mess in front of him because in 1556, the Mughals lose Delhi, and that is a major loss for them. A large army, 300 elephants, and, you know, he loses that. He loses again.
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A
He loses it to this character called Hemu.
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B
Yeah, tell us about Hemu. Tell us who he is.
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A
Hemu is I think a Hindu who is a general in Shershah's army. Shershah, remember we called him the Lion King, the descendant of the Afghan kings of Bihar and Bengal. And Hemu pops up as soon as Humayun dies. And despite him not having any royal heritage himself, he invades Delhi in October 1556 with a large army, 300 elephants, and it's all looking pretty shaky, just.
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B
Like his father went through Himari, losing territory, handover first.
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A
And the person who comes to the rescue is this character, Bayram Khan, who was very important during the reign of Akbar, very loyal and he's the father of another key figure that we'll come across later called Kanikanan. And Bayram Khan is the first sort of general to stand by Akbar. There is another battle of Panipat which nearly goes wrong. Remember that it was at Panipat that Babur defeats the Lodis. This fated battleground continues to be the place where the fate of India is decided. And just as the battle is looking quite bleak for the Mughals, Hemu is hit in the eye by an arrow. Like Harold Hastings.
- [18:11]
B
Harold Godwinson, very Battle of Hastings. And actually, you know, it's significant because the numbers are not in their favor, even with Byron by his side and forces are enormously outnumbered. So was this man not hit in the eye by an arrow? They could have and probably would have been wiped out and that would have been the end of the Akbar story.
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A
The whole Mughal story. We'd never heard them again. Yep. But instead, Hammu is knocked unconscious by this terrible arrow in the eye and Akbar, aged now for only 14, reaches the unconscious. Hemu decapitates him personally and the head gets sent off to Kabul, the body to Delhi to warn other pretenders on the throne. This is one of two occasions when Akbar behaves very gruesomely and builds, I think, a tower of skulls on the battlefield, like the Mongol forebear.
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B
Can I just say, which is appalling because I've seen some people sort of pop up on various social media going, you know, hang on, how are you not criticizing this? No, no, it's horrific. It is absolutely horrific. You know, mountain of skulls. Nobody is saying this is part of the glorious bits of his story.
- [19:12]
A
And there's going to be one other occasion when Akbar also behaves in an incredibly violent and bloodthirsty manner, and we'll come to that quite soon. But having got his throne thanks to the generalship of Bayram Khan, quite soon, Bayram Khan is sent off to Mecca in 1560. So, you know, quite early on, Akbar doesn't want the old guard around. And initially he leans on the two brothers of his wetness, who's this woman called Mahamanga. And his wet nurse has these sons, of which the most important is Adam Khan. And so as a balance against Bayram, he initially lands on Adam Khan. Bayram Khan is sent off to Mecca. There's a rebellion, but he's defeated. And then two years later, Adam Khan overplays his hand and assassinates Akbar's minister in court. And this is the moment of crisis. Akbar is now 16. It's the second one of his associates who's become over mighty. And this guy who he's brought up with, Adam Khan, has killed someone in court. And he has to make a decision. What does he do? He orders Adam, who he's known since he was a child, who is one of the closest associates in court, to be thrown.
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B
Who is this boob twin? You know, if it's a wet nurse, it's a boob twin. And we've talked about this before, you know, sort of wet nurses who will look after and feed their own children when they're pregnant. And also if they're producing milk, they will be given another child, a royal child, to feed.
- [20:53]
A
And he is, on Akbar's orders, thrown out of a first full window. And they then look down and see this poor guy twitching. And Akbar, allegedly, personally goes down, puts him over his shoulder, push him up the stairs and throws him out a second time. And that's it. And that Adam Khan's tomb is just next to my house in Delhi and I pass it many days. Yep.
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B
What does it look like?
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A
Well, it's very big and grand. It's like the old Lodi royal tombs, which are in the Lodi Gardens, but bigger.
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B
Who would have made that? I mean, would that have been Akbar himself?
- [21:26]
A
That is Akbar himself. I mean, these guys were his wet nurse brothers.
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B
Yeah. So he throws them off a balcony twice, but then feels bad about it.
- [21:34]
A
He throws one of them off the balcony and the other brother also ends up having a tomb built for himself. And these two gorgeous tombs which lie either side of me, Rawly bus station today, next to my house are beautiful places. The Adam Khan's tomb is called the Bulbuliya, the maze Bulbulaya. Ah.
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B
That's like a labyrinth. It's the name for that labyrinth. A labyrinth, yeah.
- [21:55]
A
And it's a place associated with jinns and lots of folklore. It's a beautiful tomb. It's an absolutely wonderful place. And then there's the other brother who's just over the other side of the Kut of Bena. And so Akbar, recognizing in a sense his responsibility to these two does build them both big tombs. But he is not going to let any sympathy or any over show of kindness. The thing that he recognized finished his father over and over again, forgiving his enemies. And Abbas gonna have none of it. So he starts off right at the beginning, doing exactly what his father did not do. He shows he will not forgive disloyalty. That disloyalty and treachery will result in death. Orexa. And so first Bayram Khan is sent off, then Adam Khan is thrown out. Mahamanga, the wet nurse, dies of sadness. And this results in Akbar, at the age now of whatever he is, 16 or 17, very much in control, showing that he is someone, however young he is, he's not to be messed with. And it's at this point that we see this very, very important decision that he takes. To find allies with the most improbable people of all. The Rajputs, who've traditionally been the enemies of his family, who fought Babur when he came to power. And after the break, we will hear the story of Man Singh, which is a story which completely changes not only Akbar's own life, but will alter forever the nature of Mughal rule. If your business needs a new application, then developers will have to write code. A lot of code. If an application needs to be modernized, then you'll need time, resources, and caffeine. If this sounds daunting, then use Watson X Code assistant. Built with IBM's granite code model. It's AI designed to multiply developer productivity so you can generate code quickly. Learn more@IBM.com CodeAssistant IBM, let's create. Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay, where I.
- [24:03]
B
Go for all kinds of things I love.
- [24:05]
A
And there it was. That hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? EBay has. Has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
- [24:25]
B
Whatever you love, find it on eBay.
- [24:27]
A
EBay things people love. Tis the season to share the joy with the Instax Mini 40 instant camera. With a classic design, you can capture each and every festive moment and print them out on the spot. Make this holiday season unforgettable and gift, the Instax Mini 40 instant camera. Don't just take, give. Visit instax.com to shop.
- [25:01]
B
Welcome back. So, just before the break, we were talking about how Akbar is trying really very hard, or whether he's trying or not. He is defining what it is to be an emperor. And it is in exact opposition to what his father was, which was sort of this rather forgiving dope who, you know, kept taking back the most treacherous snakes who were around him, and it resulted in him being reduced to begging in a desert for allies and cooking horses in helmets. One thing we didn't mention, part of this sort of redefinition, and it's partly strategic because it is a more secure place, and it's partly because he is a different type of emperor, but he moves the court from Delhi to Agra. Now, for most of you, Agra will be synonymous with the Taj Mahal. The Taj Mahal doesn't exist at this time. The Taj Mahal will be created by someone who comes later. But it is a very big deal to move at court. I mean, some people have tried it, or we talked about the tuk looks trying to move their courts with disastrous consequences. It's a big deal, it's a big gamble, but it pays off, doesn't it, William? Because apart from, you know, you're redefining, I am not like the ones who came before me, you're building something new and strong and in your own image in a way.
- [26:13]
A
Correct. And it's at this point too that we get this extraordinary alliance formed between Akbar's Moguls, based now in Agra, and in a sense, their next big power. Who are the Rajput clan? Raja Barmal, who lives in Amer, which is just under Amber Fort, which is now on the outskirts of Jaipur. Jaipur, again, like the Taj Mahal is something that comes later.
- [26:43]
B
Yeah. We ought to actually explain who the Rajputs were, first of all. So the Rajputs, historically enemies of the Mughals, a very sort of proud Hindu martial people. They are, you know, they pride themselves on being great fighters. They also have great swathes of land. They also have a great deal of pride in being Rajput. It's a really defined, regal thing to be. To be a Rajput. And the Rajputs have also defined themselves on fighting with the Mughals. So to have any kind of allegiance between these two houses is an extraordinary thing. And let's talk about Man Singh a little bit more. I mean, you say Amr is where he is. Also describe what it would have been like then, because Amur Fort. You know, there are great forts and Amer Fort and these places in the desert. If you've ever done any kind of traveling to India and you're not from India, the golden triangle. This is part of the golden triangle that you'll be taken on to see these huge soaring edifices on great high ground which look down into ravines. I mean, strategically, very, very protected, but also imposing architecture that shows this is great might here. So strategically important, but also is propaganda. Very, very important. And this is the flex of strength that the Rajputs project. Tell us about Man Singh. I mean, who was he? What was he like? Tell me who he was.
- [28:03]
A
So what's important to realize is that Man Singh, when he's born, is not one of the great nobles of India today. When you go to Amer Fort, it is, as you say, one of the main tourist sites of India because it's absolutely enormous. But that fort that we all go and visit on elephants and, you know, it's one of the classic things tourists do and it's one of the classic views of India. That fort was won and built with the loot that Man Singh gathers as Akbar's general. And if you go down the steps, I can tell the story very clearly because I was actually at a wedding in Jaipur this weekend and in preparation for this pod, I went wandering around Amer with my son Sam, who's become obsessed with this story too and has just put a sub stack up all about all the temples built under the Mughals by particularly this family.
- [28:57]
B
Oh, look at you. Proud dad.
- [28:59]
A
I'm proud, dad. Travels of Sam Wide substack. Help my boy. Anyway, Sam actually led me, he was my tour guide this weekend and we went round all the temples of which there are 360 in Amer underneath the fort. The important point that he showed me on this trip was that it was a very minor Rajput house. They were effectively squires rather than than great maharajas at this point. And their original palace where Man Singh was brought up is still there today. It's actually a temple. It's been converted into a temple where the coronations, the Abhisheka ceremony of the new maharajas still goes on, but it's quite modest. It's like, you know, I mean, it's a big, lovely courtyard house that you and I would be very happy to live in. But it's not, you know, Amer Fort, which is one of the great amazing palaces of the world. And there's three generations of rulers who make this transition into Mughal service. And the first.
- [30:03]
B
It's Mansing's father, isn't it?
- [30:04]
A
Well, I think it's actually a grandfather is the first one. So the grandfather and the father, who are the princes of this Kachawa dynasty, join Mughal service. And they very quickly rise in the ranks and their success and the freedom with which they are allowed to operate, you know, swings the balance. All the other Rajputs are watching to see how it goes. And one after another, they join the Mughals and come over to this increasingly powerful juggernaut.
- [30:37]
B
Yeah.
- [30:37]
A
And the one family that doesn't is the family that will become the Maharanas of Udaipur in later generations, the Sisodias of Chitor. And a division takes place in the heart of Rajasthan between those clans, such as initially the Kachawas of Amer, and then the family that will become the Maharajas of Jodhpur join Mughal service. And for a long time the Sodhiyas stand out against it and refuse to bow in front of the foreign arrivals.
- [31:05]
B
Yeah, so this is really, really important because there has always been this feeling that the Mughals are the enemy of the Rajput. So for Rajputs to enter imperial service and for Rajputs to rise in the ranks, because there's also a supposition that the Mughals only promote their own, that they look upon the Hindus as infidels, that they don't treat them as equals. And yet you see these Rajput families who have come under the Mughal umbrella rising to very dizzying heights. So, you know, the grandfather, the father, and then Mansing himself, Man Singh himself. So he enters imperial service, he enters the military at the age of 12. Again, at the age of 12, he's.
- [31:42]
A
Sent off to grow up in the court with Akbar as Akbar's effectively sort of protege.
- [31:47]
B
Yes. To have that position near the feet of the Emperor is a massive, massive deal. And he rises through the ranks and he becomes a military general in no time at all. And he will go on to become the highest ranking military general in the Mughal army by 1605. So this is a Hindu rising in a Muslim court, which completely must be befuddling to the Rajputs to say, hang on a minute, we've always been fighting these people. They've always treated us, you know, like the enemy. And how is it that, you know, you've got people like Man Singh able to build these grand edifices and houses and suddenly have retinues and servants. They're doing all right under the Mughals. They're doing better than all Right.
- [32:26]
A
And they even go as far as marrying Man Singh's sister to akbar. And in 1562, the woman who will become known as Maria Muzamani, who later becomes the mother of Jahangir, the next emperor from the same family, marries Akbar and moves to Agra with her brother. So you've got these Rajputs with increasing number now arriving, doing diplomatic marriages with Akbar. And almost immediately you see land grants being given by Akbar. Two Hindu temples near Agra in the land of Krishna, the land of Braj. The first one is the father of Man Singh, who's called Bhagwant Das, who builds this extraordinary Mughal style Sati temple in vrindavan. And in 1598, Akbar orders four Brahmins to determine the grants given to the different temples in Braj. Very quickly you have this burst of.
- [33:26]
B
Temple building, Hindu temple building, and also no presence of the Jizya tax, which is, you know, a tax that often sort of Mughal leaders impose on the local populace. If you're not a Muslim, you pay a tax for doing your own thing in your own temples. You can go and, you know, be a Hindu if you like, but you will be punished for it from your pocket. And that is not the case.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah, it's not just that. There's also no pilgrimage taxes. A whole range of different things that irritate the Hindus are banned. So you can't kill peacocks, you can't kill cows. These are now all protected animals for the benefit of the Hindus to create this cohesion within this what historians sometimes call a Mughal Rajput state.
- [34:04]
B
Yeah, well, I was going to say scholars are arguing that it's not right to call it the Mughal state at this point. It's the Mughal Rajput state because the Rajputs, the Hindus are so high up that you can't just say it's a Mughal state anymore, because Rajputs are controlling things and he trusts them to control things and they trust him to have this allegiance and fly against everything that they've ever been taught.
- [34:25]
A
So more temples are built under Akbar than at any time since the establishment of the Delhi sultanate in the 13th century. And they're bigger than anything that North Indians had built at that point. And it's Mansingh himself who builds the largest of all, which is the Govinda Devi Temple, which is the size of a cathedral. It's a wonderful looking building in Vrindavan, built very much in the kind of imperial Mogul style of Akbar's reign, which we'll hear more about later with this mix of sort of, you know, Central Asian Mughal architecture and local Hindu architecture of this region and of Gujarat. But it's enormous. It's an enormous, cracking, great temple.
- [35:06]
B
I mean, it's so huge and imposing. Just to give you an idea, I mean, it looks like a fort. It looks like one of those great Rajput forts. It's soaring up redstone. That redstone. That's very correct. Distinctive in Rajasthan. It's got great pillars, this huge gateway to come in. It's unlike any of the temples, I think, that have ever come before it in North India.
- [35:28]
A
Correct. I think you have to go back to the 10th century to a king called Raja Bhoj who builds this extraordinary temple outside Bhopal. It's the largest since then. In other words, for 500 years there's been nothing like this built in North India. So it's a major turning point in North Indian architecture. And. And the thing which I always love, the story I love, which indicates the ambiguous but incredibly important position that Man Singh has at court is when a little later, he's appointed as the governor in Bengal and Bihar, he renovates this fort called Rotas, doubles the size. It's another whopping great fort like the one he'll build in Amer. And he puts up on the doorway two inscriptions. The first inscription is in Persian and it goes on and on about Akbar. He's called all his official titles Sultan Jalaluddin, Muhammad Akbar, Badshah, Ghazi. And there's a tiny little reference at the end of this Persian inscription to Man Singh. And then there's a second inscription in Sanskrit which Man Singh clearly thinks the Mughals can't read.
- [36:45]
B
I understand. And especially not Akbar, who really can't read. What does it say? Does it flip the bias a little bit?
- [36:50]
A
It flips the bias completely in this one. It's all about him. And he says in sad screen that he is Sri Maharaj Adhiraj Maharaja, King of Kings, overlord, the big swinging guy. You know all this.
- [37:04]
B
And also Akbar was here.
- [37:06]
A
No, Akbar doesn't mention at all.
- [37:08]
B
Not at all. Nothing at all. See, that's properly gutsy. Just hope they don't translate it.
- [37:14]
A
And the same thing is true of slightly later in his reign when he takes over great chunks of Bengal and he officially names the place that he turns into his capital city there, where he governs from Akbar Nagar. But no one calls it that in reality.
- [37:33]
B
What do they call it in real life after him?
- [37:35]
A
They call it Rajmahal, which is what it's called to this day.
- [37:38]
B
So look We've been concentrating on Man Singh. We should get back to Akbar because, you know, he's growing, he's building allegiances, he's reforming what it looks like to rule in a largely Hindu population by getting it sort of to be a partnership. But things are going to go awry in about 1564 because there is an assassination attempt on Akbar and an arrow is shot, it pierces his right shoulder. He's coming back from a visit to a shrine, a Sufi shrine, a dargah.
- [38:06]
A
Nizamuddin.
- [38:07]
B
Yeah, Nizamuddin, near Delhi, a very famous dargah. And Akbar orders the assassin to be arrested and it turns out to be a slave of a noble in Akbar's court again. So, you know, he's getting people that he trusts around him, but they're not all to be trusted, put it that way, because it is still a very dangerous, dangerous business to be an emperor at this time. Tell us about 1568. This is another very significant time, the siege of Chitor. First of all, where is Chittor and why is it significant?
- [38:39]
A
So Chittor is again, one of the kind of the great sites of India. If you do do your kind of golden triangle tour of India, you'll almost certainly visit Udaipur. And it is the old capital of the Maharanas of Udaipur, and it's a place associated partly because of what happens with Akbar. It's associated with Rajput chivalry because the clan that lived there, the Sisodias, refused to bow the knee to Akbar. The family that will become the Maharajas of Jaipur, the family of Man Singh, have gone over. The Rators, who will become the maharajas of Jodhpur, have gone over. But the Sasonyas, who will become the Maharanas of Udaipur, refuse to do so. So there is this terrible, terrible siege of Chitto and the defenders enact the practice of Johar. Do you want to talk about that? This tradition of the mass killing of women and girls to avoid capture, enslavement, and the men ride out in saffron and go to their death.
- [39:46]
B
I think you're sort of telling the story perfectly well, that, yes, it's a miserable pattern which is repeated at the time of partition, where families would rather have their women killed, their daughters, their mothers, their sisters, rather than fall into the hands of the enemy, lest they should be raped and dishonored, which was deemed to be a fate worse than death. Even so, it is the mass slaughter, just the mass slaughter of the women that you love. Just imagine that blood running through, you know, and women, again, like at the time of Partition, there are horrific stories of women volunteering to have their throats cut by their fathers because they bought into this, that if you are taken you will be raped. And that is the greatest dishonor of all. I mean, apart from anything else, with some Hindu families they believe it takes you out of caste and therefore you will not be allowed into their cycle of reincarnation. It's an existential threat, but it is awful. Just imagine that. Imagine that. And 30,000 fort defenders end up being killed by Akbar's forces. We don't have the number for the girls, as usual, we don't have the numbers for the girls, I mean, do we? We don't know how many women and girls were killed.
- [40:54]
A
What we do know is that in addition to those who take their own lives in the joha, the Akbar orders all the defenders to be killed. And this is something that again sort of clouds his life.
- [41:06]
B
It's awful because they were right. He wasn't going to show mercy, he wasn't going to treat them decently. So as appalling as this sort of act of, of self mutilation is for families, they had a point because Akbar is not showing any mercy. He's nothing like this ruler whose image now is one of sort of tolerance and we all hold hands together and wisdom. He's just, he's a shit. I mean it's awful. It's horrific. Does he regret it? Does he ever write about it? Or does anyone say he regrets what he did at this time?
- [41:35]
A
So what we do see is that he never does it again. There are many other occasions when he faces resistance and he'll never again order a massacre like he does this. And this seems to be a turning point in earlier period in Indian history. And again there are those who dispute this, but with the Emperor Ashoka it's always said to be this great massacres and enslavement. When he conquers Orissa, that changes his heart and turns him in towards non violence into Buddhism. And Buddhism that sometimes is disputed, but that's certainly the version that Ashoka puts out publicly. And the same is true with Akbar. After the massacre at Chitta, we never see him again behave with this gruesome slaughter. And as we'll see in future episodes, he becomes a very different man after this.
- [42:22]
B
Okay, so I mean this is coming to a point. After this gruesome massacre, it doesn't make the waters still for him because even after this there are still rebellions against Akbar, particularly to the east in Bihar and in Bengal and in Kabul, there are uprisings against Akbar's rule. People who are not happy to be part of this massive state. And it is Maan Singh, Man Singh of this self advertising, who puts these things down. There is also a brother. We haven't talked about Hakim at all. So Hakim. Well, tell us about him. First of all, what's the age difference? Do you know what the age difference is between Akbar and Hakim? Hakim is Akbar's brother.
- [43:00]
A
I don't know the age difference. But Hakim, I think, is up in Kabul, isn't he? And he revolts in. In 1580.
- [43:08]
B
Yes. I mean, he tries to steal his brother's throne. That's what he wants. He sees all of this and he wants it. And there is this tradition of sort of fratricide in the Mughal dynasty which we've talked about before. How does Akbar take it? And what does he do to Hakim for doing this in Kabul?
- [43:22]
A
So Hakim is defeated, driven into Central Asia, and he allegedly dies of alcohol poisoning when he's on the run from Akbar's troops. But again then, Akbar has learned the lesson from his father, Humayun, and he does not forgive the sons. The sons are expelled from India and are told they are not welcome. So that, for this generation, ends all competition from brothers and half brothers. Akbar is blessed in this. He doesn't have a whole load of competing brothers like Humayun did, nor has he vowed to his father that he won't.
- [43:57]
B
He's not stymied by not killing, killing the treacherous snakes who rise against him. He just deals with them. And when he defeats Hakim and sort of Hakim withdraws to lick his wounds and his sons are expelled and dies at the bottom of a bottle. What Akbar does at this time is, I think, pretty amazing. He puts his sister in charge. He's got rid of his treacherous brother, but he trusts his sister, Bachtunisa Begum. And he says, right, you know what? This is a strategic province. I trust you. You must be wise and you are trustworthy. So you will be the governor of Kabul. And it is. I mean, Kabul. We've talked about how important Kabul is to the Mughals. It's not just a strategic importance, it's also.
- [44:40]
A
It's always going into rebellion.
- [44:42]
B
Up to now, yeah, it's always going wrong. You know, it's very difficult to stay in control. But he trusts it to a woman to do that. And I think that's. I just thought I wanted to bang that drum For a little bit, anyway. Okay, so he had has annexed Kabul from his treacherous snake of a brother, put his sister in charge. But actually to hold on to the northwest, it does make you vulnerable because you're always having to send troops to Quell. As modern history tells us, you don't go into Afghanistan and take something and sleep at night with both eyes closed because it isn't that kind of place.
- [45:16]
A
That's right. And so for the final stage of his reign, he rules from Lahore and from that base. He keeps a very firm hand on Afghanistan. He conquers Kashmir, which is currently being ruled by a Shia king, and he annexes sin. So these are all major conquests. We look at them as small campaigns, but we're rapidly seeing this Mughal empire spread in all directions. And he's captured Rajasthan and Sindh and Gujarat.
- [45:47]
B
So, I mean, just shorthand, the entire Indo Gangetic plain is basically in his control. The north, the east, what is now eastern Pakistan, southern Nepal and most of Bangladesh, plus Kashmir plus Afghanistan. So this new style of, I suppose people must have thought initially was kind of uptight Akbar, who takes a man who doesn't salute him on a horse and has him sort of flogged and arrested. This is paying off because he's got order and discipline where his forebears did not. They made some tragic decisions or they were drunk and high, but this is not him. And it is beginning to pay off. So do a little teaser for where we're going next week because we're gonna have to end it here. I'll tell you one thing I am going to do, because this is about the same sort of time that Birbal, if you are Indian or Pakistani, you'll know the stories about Birbal, but they become a thing at this time in sort of around about 1580. And so I can't wait to tell you about that at the beginning of the next episode. The great Aesop fables of the east that we have throughout Akbar Bearborg.
- [46:46]
A
But the two other stories we're going to tell next time are the way that Akbar cements these new conquests all across North India, all the way from Bengal to Gujarat, all the way from Kashmir and Afghanistan down to the Deccan. We're gonna find the way that he manages to stabilize this into a empire that will last for 300 years. And there are two main things that he does. One is to establish an incredibly sleek and well run administration. But the second is to operate a religious policy that means that the Hindus will never regard him as an outsider. And will look on him as one of their own.
- [47:33]
B
And if you want to hear episode two and you can't wait, I don't blame it's very exciting and we can't hold ourselves back. Sign up to Empire Club to get early access ad free listening and you get our brilliant weekly newsletter, which is a thing of beauty. Just head to empirepoduk.com that's empirepoduk.com till the next time we meet, it's goodbye.
- [47:54]
A
From me, Anita Arnen and goodbye from me, William Durimpool.