Empire Podcast Summary: Episode 237 - The Great Famine: The Irish Exodus to America (Ep 2)

Hosts: Anita Ar and William Duranpool
Guest: Colm Tobin, Irish Novelist, Playwright, and Journalist
Release Date: March 13, 2025
Duration: Approximately 44 minutes

I. Introduction

In Episode 237 of Empire, hosts Anita Ar and William Duranpool delve deep into the catastrophic period of the Great Irish Famine and its ensuing exodus to America. Joined by esteemed Irish writer Colm Tobin, the discussion navigates through the harrowing events of the mid-19th century, analyzing the roles of key figures, governmental policies, and the profound socio-economic impacts that reshaped Ireland and influenced the Irish diaspora in America.

II. Historical Background of the Great Famine

The episode opens with Colm Tobin setting the stage for the Great Irish Famine, which began in the mid-1840s and extended into the 1850s. Unlike a single-year catastrophe, the famine spanned over a decade, leaving lasting repercussions on Ireland's population and landscape.

William Duranpool (00:49): "Over the past several days, three females have been found dead."

III. British Government Response and Policies

A central theme of the discussion is the British government's inadequate and often detrimental response to the famine. Charles Trevelyan, depicted as the primary antagonist, embodied the ruthless implementation of laissez-faire policies that exacerbated the famine's effects.

Colm Tobin (03:30): "By August 1847, say, 3 million people are being fed every day by the state."

Tobin elaborates on Trevelyan's decisions, such as halting soup kitchen operations despite the escalating crisis, demonstrating a blatant disregard for the suffering of the Irish populace.

IV. Personal Accounts and Descriptions of Suffering

The podcast features poignant excerpts from William Forster, a Quaker minister, whose letters vividly portray the dire conditions in Ireland. These accounts underscore the extreme malnutrition, disease outbreaks, and the pervasive despair that engulfed the nation.

Colm Tobin (04:51): "The people were like walking skeletons. The men stamped with the livid mark of hunger, the children crying with pain..."

V. Role of Workhouses

Workhouses emerged as grim refuges for those unable to sustain themselves amidst the famine. However, they were rife with disease and high mortality rates, failing to provide lasting relief.

Anita Ar (14:16): "A workhouse was the last resort. It was simply that you could arrive there with your family... They were hotbeds of disease and despair."

Statistics highlight the catastrophic loss of life within these institutions, particularly among children.

Anita Ar (15:58): "In 1850, the workhouses were caring for 119,000 children who knew neither their surname nor whether their parents were alive."

VI. Demographic and Socioeconomic Impacts

The famine resulted in the eradication of the cottier class—small landholders who owned five acres or less. Population density plummeted, landholdings were consolidated, and a new class structure emerged, often dominated by Catholic Irish middlemen serving English landlords.

Colm Tobin (16:12): "Between 1845 and 1855, this cottier class had more or less disappeared."

VII. Catalyzing Irish Nationalism

The famine intensified Irish nationalist sentiments, embedding a deep-seated grievance against British rule. This period laid the groundwork for future movements advocating for Irish independence.

Amanda Seyfried (19:19): "The famine becomes the grievance, not the wiping out of the Irish language... It began with the potato blight."

VIII. Irish Emigration to America and its Consequences

A significant outcome of the famine was the mass emigration of 1.5 to 2 million Irish to America. These immigrants predominantly settled in urban centers like Boston, New York, and Philadelphia, where they established a powerful Irish-American community that became a pivotal political force within the Democratic Party.

Colm Tobin (28:54): "80% of those who emigrated to America and survived were of rural origin... they created the Irish America as a political force."

The contrast between the successful integration of Irish in America and their struggles in England is highlighted, with references to influential figures and cultural phenomena like the Beatles.

Anita Ar (31:09): "Just a moment when you could have been sisters in England, but the Irish spread out. It didn't happen in England in the same way because the Irish spread out."

IX. Representation in Literature and Historical Silence

Despite its magnitude, the famine is notably underrepresented in Irish literature. Writers like Yeats and Joyce largely eschewed direct references, favoring myth and legend over the grim realities of the famine.

Colm Tobin (38:00): "It's more or less right that it doesn't appear in Yeats's poems... in general, it isn't at the very centre of the literature of the 20th century."

Tobin references Terry Eagleton's assertion that the famine strained the limits of articulation, leading to a collective societal silence reminiscent of traumatic events' impacts on national consciousness.

Colm Tobin (40:32): "The catastrophe was so large that just trying to deal with it, it was much easier to become silent about it."

X. British Land Reforms and Legacy

Half a century after the famine, the British government initiated comprehensive land reforms through the Wyndham Land Acts of the 1890s. This move was partly influenced by a collective sense of guilt and the imperative to prevent such a catastrophe from reoccurring.

Colm Tobin (35:11): "The British Land Acts... completely transformed land in Ireland."

These reforms dismantled the exploitative landholding systems, transitioning the majority of Irish tenants into homeowners, thereby altering the socio-economic landscape and easing tensions that had fueled nationalist movements.

XI. Modern Reflections and Apologies

The episode touches upon contemporary British acknowledgments of the famine's atrocities, including Tony Blair's apology in 1997 and Queen Victoria's later nuanced statements. However, these apologies are critiqued for their perceived insincerity and lack of depth.

Colm Tobin (44:08): "Tony Blair's apology seemed to be a particular sort of empty moment... She [Queen Victoria] merely said it would be better if some things had happened differently or not at all."

XII. Conclusion

Episode 237 of Empire offers a comprehensive exploration of the Great Irish Famine, highlighting its devastating impact, the failures of British policy, and the resulting Irish diaspora's significant role in shaping American politics. Through expert analysis and heartfelt narratives, the podcast underscores the famine's enduring legacy and its pivotal role in Ireland's quest for identity and independence.

Notable Quotes

• William Duranpool (03:30): "By August 1847, say, 3 million people are being fed every day by the state."

• Colm Tobin (04:51): "The people were like walking skeletons. The men stamped with the livid mark of hunger, the children crying with pain..."

• Anita Ar (14:16): "A workhouse was the last resort... They were hotbeds of disease and despair."

• Colm Tobin (16:12): "Between 1845 and 1855, this cottier class had more or less disappeared."

• Amanda Seyfried (19:19): "The famine becomes the grievance... It began with the potato blight."

• Colm Tobin (28:54): "They created the Irish America as a political force."

• Colm Tobin (35:11): "The British Land Acts... completely transformed land in Ireland."

• Colm Tobin (44:08): "Tony Blair's apology seemed to be a particular sort of empty moment..."

Key Takeaways

• British Policy Failure: The laissez-faire approach under leaders like Charles Trevelyan significantly worsened the famine's impact.

• Human Suffering: Vivid firsthand accounts reveal the extreme conditions and widespread mortality during the famine.

• Socioeconomic Transformation: The crisis led to the obliteration of the cottier class and massive land redistribution.

• Rise of Irish Nationalism: The famine fueled nationalist movements, embedding a lasting grievance against British rule.

• Diaspora Influence: The Irish exodus to America established a potent Irish-American political constituency.

• Literary Silence: The famine's traumatic legacy led to its underrepresentation in Irish literary canon.

• Long-term Reforms: British land reforms in the late 19th century were, in part, a response to the famine's atrocities.

• Modern Reflections: Contemporary apologies by British figures are viewed with skepticism regarding their sincerity and depth.

This episode serves as a profound reminder of the Great Irish Famine's enduring legacy, shaping not only Ireland's socio-political landscape but also influencing global diasporic communities and international relations.