Empire Podcast Episode 274: Pirates of Panama: Francis Drake Strikes Spain's Empire (Part 2)

Release Date: July 21, 2025
Hosts: Anita Anand and William Dalrymple
Guest: Mark Horton, Archaeologist

Introduction to Pirates and Historical Context (00:00 - 03:00)

Anita Anand and William Dalrymple kick off the episode by revisiting their previous discussions on pirates, specifically referencing their earlier series on pirates that garnered significant listener interest. They introduce their special guest, Mark Horton, a respected archaeologist, hinting at intriguing revelations about Horton’s personal connection to Sir Francis Drake.

Notable Quote:

• Anita Anand [00:19]: "If you want access to bonus episodes, reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat community..."

Mark Horton’s Connection to Sir Francis Drake (03:00 - 05:00)

Mark Horton reveals a fascinating personal detail: he resides in a house that once belonged to Sir Francis Drake. The hosts jest about Drake’s ghost haunting the house, with Horton playfully affirming supernatural occurrences tied to Drake’s history.

Notable Quotes:

• William Dalrymple [03:03]: "Mark, whose house are you living in?"
• Mark Horton [03:03]: "Sir Francis Drake."
• Anita Anand [03:09]: "Do you actually...?"

Francis Drake’s Piracy and Early Expeditions (05:00 - 09:00)

The discussion shifts to Francis Drake's early life and expeditions. Mark Horton provides a critical perspective, highlighting Drake not just as the Elizabethan hero but also as a pioneer of the English slave trade alongside John Hawkins. They delve into Drake's 1572 expedition to Panama, where despite having only 73 men and two small ships, Drake aimed to intercept Spanish silver transports.

Notable Quotes:

• Anita Anand [06:52]: "Francis Drake's first independent privateering... is now being remembered these days as the first English slaver..."
• Mark Horton [09:05]: "We have to start in 1572. Drake has a couple of ships..."

The 1572 Panama Expedition: Successes and Setbacks (09:00 - 17:00)

Mark Horton narrates Drake’s bold attack on the Spanish heart of Panama. Despite initial setbacks, including being wounded by a cannonball ([11:41]), Drake successfully captures a silver train, amassing 20 tons of gold and silver. However, the haul was too substantial for his small crew, leading to some of the treasure being buried—a legendary treasure hunt element remains to this day.

They discuss Drake’s return to Plymouth, his uneasy welcome due to shifting political treaties, and his subsequent disappearance for 18 months, possibly hiding in the house Horton inhabits.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Horton [12:20]: "He then takes what he can... and instead decides to bury some of it..."
• William Dalrymple [12:34]: "Why are you not digging there, Mark?"

Drake’s Later Expeditions and the Counter Armada (17:00 - 21:00)

In 1585-1586, Drake leads a major expedition against the Spanish, capturing key locations like Santo Domingo and Cartagena. Despite initial successes, the ultimate Counter Armada in 1588 was a disaster for the English, leading to Drake's temporary disgrace.

Notable Quotes:

• Anita Anand [07:31]: "Spanish dollars become the main international currency..."
• Mark Horton [20:30]: "Naval historians have rather bigged up Drake's role..."

Rehabilitation of Drake’s Reputation (21:00 - 26:00)

Despite his earlier failures, Drake's reputation was rehabilitated during the Cromwellian period, cemented by historians like Sir Julian Corbett in the 19th century. This era depicted Drake as a quintessential naval hero, distancing his legacy from the darker aspects of his piracy and slaving activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Anita Anand [25:07]: "Now, we all remember Drake as this great hero..."
• Mark Horton [26:24]: "Cromwell himself sends out expeditions to the Grand Design..."

Transition to Henry Morgan and the Age of Buccaneers (32:00 - 38:00)

The podcast transitions to focus on Henry Morgan, another central figure in Caribbean piracy. Mark Horton describes Morgan’s rise from a minor Welshman to a feared buccaneer operating out of Port Royal, Jamaica. Morgan's brutal tactics during the 1668 siege of Portobello exemplify the ruthless nature of buccaneering during this period.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Horton [32:17]: "So the Spanish get wind... Morgan was elected, with a group of other ships..."
• Anita Anand [34:05]: "Port Royal was the site. Actually, not much of it survives..."

Morgan’s Siege of Portobello (34:00 - 43:00)

Mark Horton provides a detailed account of Morgan’s 1668 siege of Portobello, highlighting his strategic demands for ransom and the subsequent destruction when demands weren’t met. Morgan’s success at Portobello solidified his wealth and reputation, enabling him to become the governor of Jamaica.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Horton [34:13]: "He managed to lay siege to these impregnable fortresses..."
• Anita Anand [37:21]: "So, Mark, poor old Drake has got dysentery..."

The Great South Sea Expedition and William Dampier’s Adventures (43:00 - 47:30)

The conversation moves to the Great South Sea Expedition of 1680, led by William Dampier. This massive pirate fleet attempted to attack Panama but faced fierce resistance. Dampier’s subsequent explorations contributed to the early European understanding of Australia, predating Captain Cook.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Horton [42:32]: "They suddenly realize the wealth of Spain and Panama..."
• William Dalrymple [45:03]: "But no, no. No, no."

Legacy of Piracy and Transition to the Panama Canal (47:30 - 50:00)

In the closing segments, Mark Horton touches on the continued attacks on Spanish holdings by English and French pirates, leading up to the eventual decline of such activities. The episode sets the stage for the next discussion on the transformative Panama Canal, teasing its significance in global history.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Horton [48:45]: "So this is the route. So it shifts slightly to the west..."
• William Dalrymple [50:00]: "William, are you doing some such a good job of stumbling around..."

Key Insights and Discussions

• Dual Legacies of Pirate Figures: The podcast critically examines historical figures like Francis Drake and Henry Morgan, juxtaposing their celebrated naval achievements with their roles in piracy and the slave trade.

• Impact on Spanish Empire: The relentless attacks by English and French pirates significantly disrupted the Spanish silver flow from Panama, contributing to broader economic and political shifts in Europe.

• Reputation Rehabilitation: The discussion highlights how historical narratives are shaped by subsequent political and cultural needs, leading to the glorification of figures who had morally ambiguous roles.

• Archaeological Connections: Mark Horton’s personal connection to Drake’s former residence underscores the tangible links between present-day archaeology and historical narratives.

• Transition to Global Infrastructure: The episode effectively bridges the era of piracy with the impending construction of the Panama Canal, hinting at the long-term geopolitical and economic ramifications.

Conclusion

Episode 274 of the "Empire" podcast offers a rich, nuanced exploration of piracy's role in shaping global history, particularly focusing on Francis Drake and Henry Morgan's campaigns against the Spanish Empire. Through engaging dialogue and expert insights from Mark Horton, the episode sheds light on the complexities of historical legacies and sets the stage for further discussions on pivotal events like the Panama Canal's construction.

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