Empire Podcast #289: Medieval India’s Game of Thrones (Part 1)

Host: William Dalrymple & Anita Anand
Guest: Anirudh Kanisetti (author, historian)
Date: September 10, 2025

Overview

In this special "palate cleanser" episode between their Middle Eastern history series, William Dalrymple and Anita Anand are joined by historian Anirudh Kanisetti to explore the dramatic rise of the Chola Empire in medieval South India. Styled as India’s own "Game of Thrones," the episode delves into the region's dynamic power structures, the expansionist ambitions of the Cholas, their economic and cultural legacies, and features the saga of the formidable queen, Sembiyan Mahadevi, whose artistic patronage gave rise to one of India’s most iconic religious images: Shiva as Nataraja, Lord of the Dance.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Setting the Scene: From Suez to South India

• The hosts briefly reflect on their last Middle Eastern series, segueing into this "sorbet" episode on India before returning to the history of Gaza.
  [03:34] William Dalrymple: "Before we do that, we're going to give you a little palate cleanser... we're going to take you back into medieval Indian history. And a piece of Indian history that has always fascinated me—in many ways it's India's own Game of Thrones."

The Central Icon: Nataraja – Shiva as Lord of the Dance

• The episode opens with a poetic invocation of Shiva as Nataraja, highlighting its unique place in Indian and even global culture.
• Anita Anand draws a fascinating connection to the Christian hymn "Lord of the Dance," noting its inspiration from the Nataraja icon.
  [06:46] Anita Anand: "Well, the one that we call the Nataraja. Lord of the Dance."
• Dalrymple explains the image’s spread and influence, noting, for instance, its monumental display in Cern’s Hadron Collider.
  [25:21] William Dalrymple: "When you walk into Cern, there is a giant Chola Nataraja sitting in the main entrance hall."

Who Were the Cholas?

Geography and Origins

• Anirudh Kanisetti frames the Cholas in the context of early medieval Eurasia and India, pointing out their base in Tamil Nadu on the Coromandel Coast, a name possibly derived from "Chola Mandalam."
  • [09:03] Kanisetti: "The Cholas are based in the deep south of India, present day state of Tamil Nadu on the Coromandel coast... the English word cash, according to one of three possible etymologies, might be derived from kasu, which is a Tamil word which refers to a coin."

Historical Importance

• Cholas contrasted with familiar European kingdoms of the time—their realm boasted the tallest temple buildings in the world for centuries and projected power well beyond their borders.
• Cholas were compared to the Mongols in terms of influence on the Indian Ocean world and the spread of Hinduism in its most recognized form.
  • [10:14] Kanisetti: "Think of the Cholas as essentially the Mongols of the medieval Indian Ocean world. It's... the result of Chola conquests that you see new forms of economies, more interlinked regional circuits..."

Modern Resonance

• Their history is invoked in today’s Indian political discourse to underscore India’s historical might and expansionism.
  • [11:08] Kanisetti: "The Cholas speak to a contemporary Indian anxiety about our influence in the world... In the Cholas, it seems that we found a Hindu dynasty that does exactly that, even though to the Cholas it was more of a commercial enterprise..."

The Chola "Game of Thrones": Power and Commerce

Power Dynamics and Expansionism

• The Cholas, almost uniquely for a South Indian dynasty, conquered northwards up to the Ganges and undertook naval raids across Southeast Asia, extending influence to Thailand, Malaysia, Laos, and the Maldives.
  [12:25] Anita Anand: "Even as far as the Maldives. I mean, you know, this is huge."
• Discussion of the "500," an enigmatic Tamil merchant guild with their own armies and influence—a proto–East India Company. [14:09] Dalrymple: "I came across your 500, this extraordinary guild... recording what sounds a bit like a sort of proto East India Company..."
• South India at this time was not just a "land of kings and peasants," but one of assemblies, collective rule, and dynamic exchanges between merchants, landholders, and warriors. [13:31] Kanisetti: "The reality of medieval South India... is that it's a land of assemblies, a land of collective rule, where villages are handling their own affairs."

Society and Wealth

• Chola society was marked by fluidity; merchants could be warriors and landholders.
• The image of wealth—gold, jewels, and temple art—largely derives from Chola bronzes, noted for their sensuous forms and minimal clothing due to the climate and cultural conventions.

The Rise of the Cholas

Political Turbulence and Opportunity

• The landscape featured competing dynasties: Pallavas to the north, Pandyas to the south, and powerful Deccan empires like the Rashtrakutas curtailing direct rule.
  [20:15] Dalrymple: "The Cholas, in a sense, rise to power over the Pallavas, don't they?"
• The Cholas leveraged a "political vacuum" and local independence to rise, especially after the death of the last Pallava king.
• Key moment: Cholas defeat a combined Pandya-Sri Lankan force and achieve unprecedented projection of power over the sea—invading Sri Lanka and beyond. [21:37] Dalrymple: "The Cholas are the first Indian power to project their armies over the sea to Sri Lanka..."

Social Mobility and Temple Culture

• Chola campaign loot translated to temple building and social prestige through female patronage.

Sembiyan Mahadevi: The Chola Queen as Patron and Icon

Biography and Social Context

• Sembiyan Mahadevi arrived as a lower-ranking royal wife, yet distinguished herself through intellect, strategy, and art patronage. [26:03] Kanisetti: "She enters the Chola family as one of the lower ranking daughters in law... These are intelligent, educated women who are talking to each other..."
• She initiated her role with modest temple donations (famously, 90 sheep) but rose to power after a series of family crises and succession upheavals. [27:23] Kanisetti: "She tells us all she's got to give are sheep."
• On her re-emergence from the historical record, Mahadevi embarked on a vast temple-building program, tying her family’s fortunes to religious and social legitimacy.

Artistic and Religious Innovation

• She chose Nataraja—the wild dancing Shiva of Chidambaram—as the Chola dynastic deity, elevating a regional form to global prominence. [37:36] Kanisetti: "But what Sembian does differently is... she picks up the wild dancing God of the swamp at Chidambaram and she puts him prominently on her temple."
• Her aesthetic patronage is likened to the Medici and Mughal taste-shapers, and she was instrumental in the creation of the legendary Chola bronzes.

Notable Quote:

"She is one of the greatest patrons of medieval Indian art... rivaling the greatest patrons of global art, the Mughals of North India and the Medicis of Tuscany."
—[37:39] William Dalrymple

The Sembiyan Mahadevi Bronze

• Discussion of an enigmatic bronze said to be a portrait of the queen herself—not the typical hyper-idealized Chola form, but conveying strength, athleticism, and individual realism. [29:47] Dalrymple: "This figure is not that ideal. It's a very particular portrait sculpture of someone that actually looks like a real person... She's dignified, regally, poised..."
• Its fate and exportation—controversial acquisition in Western museums, especially the Freer Collection in Washington, D.C.
• Attributes:
  • Narrow hips, athletic build—possibly symbolizing she would bear no more children.
  • Elongated earlobes, denoting spirituality.
  • Artistic charisma and individuality. [30:47] Dalrymple: "She is her own individual, strong self and she's also, I mean, it's just one of the great masterpieces of Indian art..."

Debate Over Identification

• While hard evidence for the statue's specific subject is lacking, scholarly consensus (notably Vidya Dehejia) supports the identification as Sembiyan Mahadevi.

Chola Religious Sensuality and Living Gods

• Chola bronzes aren’t only art—they are devotional, "living" gods; the podcast recounts details of how cast bronzes were processed and venerated, and the sensual intimacy depicted between Shiva and Parvati. [41:25] Anita Anand: “At night they take out the nose jewel from Parvati’s nose so that when they do make love it won’t scratch... these are envisaged as living gods.”

Notable Passage (from Dalrymple’s "Nine Lives"):

"...these Chola bronze deities are some of the greatest works of art ever created in India... few sculptors, other than perhaps Donatello or Rodin, have achieved the pure essence of sensuality so spectacularly evoked."

Ending & Next Episode Tease

• The episode concludes with Sembiyan Mahadevi’s consolidation of Chola religious and artistic supremacy, setting the scene for the further expansion and golden age of the Chola Empire—promising more drama, power, and cultural achievement in Part 2.
  [42:33] Anita Anand: “Let’s find out what the Cholas do next, with the power that is growing and the loyalty of the people that is growing around them.”

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• "If you were to imagine Europe at the turn of the first millennium CE... Raja Raja Chola... was preparing to build the most stupendous monument that had been seen in centuries." — Anirudh Kanisetti [08:13]
• "Think of the Cholas as essentially the Mongols of the medieval Indian Ocean world..." — Anirudh Kanisetti [10:14]
• "The reality of medieval South India... is that it's a land of assemblies, it's a land of collective rule, where villages are handling their own affairs." — Anirudh Kanisetti [13:31]
• "Sembiyan picks up a form of Shiva who's not from the Cagiri. She picks up the wild dancing God of the swamp at Chidambaram and she puts him prominently on her temple." — Anirudh Kanisetti [37:39]
• "She is her own individual, strong self and she's also... one of the great masterpieces of Indian art." — William Dalrymple [30:47]
• "She is one of the greatest patrons of medieval Indian art... rivaling the greatest patrons of global art, the Mughals... and the Medicis." — William Dalrymple [37:39]

Structurally Important Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------|------------| | Introduction & Transition from Suez series | 01:44–04:20| | Nataraja Statue & Western Hymn Connection | 04:18–07:23| | Who Were the Cholas? | 07:29–11:46| | Chola Expansion and the "500" Merchant Guild | 11:46–15:32| | Power Dynamics & Chola Society | 15:32–19:52| | The Chola Rise: Political Circumstances | 19:53–22:54| | Sembiyan Mahadevi’s Role & Artistic Influence | 24:56–32:55| | The Chola Bronzes & Artistic Ideals | 32:11–41:11| | Chola Sensuality and Devotional Practice | 41:11–42:33| | Conclusion & Tease for Part 2 | 42:33–43:04|

Tone & Narrative

The hosts balance scholarly insight with an accessible, engaging style. Anita Anand’s enthusiasm for powerful historical women is palpable, while William Dalrymple brings poetic language and firsthand research. Anirudh Kanisetti combines academic authority with vivid storytelling, making medieval Indian history immediate and relevant.

For Listeners New to the Topic

This episode offers a richly human and multidimensional perspective on empire:

• The Cholas, far from being obscure, were one of the world’s great medieval powers, whose legacy endures in both art and global commerce.
• The figure of Sembiyan Mahadevi and the Nataraja statue embodies the intersection of religious devotion, political strategy, and artistic innovation.
• The conversation busts myths of static, hierarchical, or solely king-driven “Orientalist” India—highlighting dynamic, participatory societies driven by collective action, commerce, and female agency.

Stay tuned for Part 2, where the saga of the Cholas—India’s real-life Game of Thrones—unfolds further!