Empire Podcast Episode 290: "Medieval India’s Alexander The Great: The Cholas (Part 2)"

Date: September 15, 2025
Hosts: William Dalrymple, Anita Anand
Guest: Aniruddh Kanesetti (historian, author of Lords of Earth and Sea)

Overview

This episode takes listeners deep into the zenith and eventual decline of the Chola Empire—one of South Asia's most powerful dynasties. Building on the groundwork of its iconic queen Sembian Mahadevi and the branding of a dynasty around piety and power, the conversation centers on the lives, accomplishments, and contradictions of Raja Raja Chola and Rajendra Chola. Through expert insight and lively banter, the hosts and guest re-evaluate the legacy of this "medieval India's Alexander the Great," address modern nationalist myths, explore the interconnected world of the Cholas, and reflect on how empire shapes and is shaped by both violence and innovation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sembian Mahadevi: Chola Queen and Architect of Dynasty Branding

[02:39–04:36]

• Sembian Mahadevi, an extraordinary queen, pioneers an early form of “media strategy” by building 12 distinct temples—well-situated for maximum visibility.
  • Aniruddh Kanesetti: "It's a media campaign." [04:36]
• She rebrands Nataraja (Shiva, Lord of Dance) as the dynasty’s exclusive deity, making Chola religious patronage a form of family propaganda.
• These temples help position the Cholas as Shiva’s foremost devotees, intertwining secular authority with spiritual legitimacy.
  • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “To oppose the cholas is to oppose the God himself.” [04:07–04:09]
• Sembian’s work lays the economic and cultural infrastructure upon which her successors would build a more martial empire.

2. Raja Raja Chola: Conquest, Propaganda, and the Machinery of Empire

[04:37–13:09]

• “India’s Alexander the Great”
  • Raja Raja Chola is framed as a bold, ambitious ruler who merges inherited piety and new aggression.
    • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “I think it's an accurate description of him because he comes to the throne in a time of political turmoil… he's a man of endless determination and tenacity for conquest.” [07:20–07:44]
  • He mobilizes a new warrior elite (not mere accountants and gentry) to expand the empire.
  • Success is rooted in a combination of military innovation, PR savvy, and expanded extraction of wealth—from both peasants and newly-won merchant support.
• The burning of merchant ships in Kerala is compared to preemptive strikes in modern warfare; a calculated act to impress and attract the powerful "500" merchant guild.
  • William Dalrymple: “Rather like the merchants of Venice, I suppose. In the Fourth Crusade.” [11:38–11:48]

3. Conquest, Violence, and the Merchants' Crucial Role

[08:58–15:50]

• The Cholas’ empire-building is enabled by merchant collaboration—local merchant guilds fund and supply military campaigns, especially in Sri Lanka.
  • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “There's a very clear indication from the Chulavamsa...Rajaraja knew what the right time to invade the island was because a horse trader told him.” [09:09]
• The myth of a vast state-run Chola navy is debunked; instead, shipping was outsourced to merchant fleets.
  • Aniruddh Kanesetti: "There's no sign of them [navy] in the Chola inscriptions...there's nobody who seems to bear the title of a member of a standing Chola navy." [11:26–11:38]
• The violence of conquest is foregrounded, challenging later myths of a pacific, golden Hindu past.
  • Temples sacked and loot (including pearls) funneled home. Civilians reportedly massacred and women captured.
  • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “The Cholas are absolutely unapologetic about conquest...In fact, the Cholas considered themselves descendants of the sun.” [13:09–13:32]
  • William Dalrymple: “We have Chalukya inscriptions...specifically accusing them of raping Brahmin women. So that is the evidence.” [13:57–14:06]
• Modern Indian nationalist discomfort with this violence is discussed; Kanesetti asserts the value of honest historical engagement.

4. The Tanjore Temple: Monumental Architecture and Imperial Branding

[18:14–22:09]

• Raja Raja Chola’s temple at Tanjore is a core symbol of both religious and imperial might.
  • 216ft tall, 130,000 tons of granite, “second only to Egypt’s pyramids in height at this time.” [18:14–18:36]
  • Staffed with people from across the empire and built with looted wealth, it represents the entwining of cosmic kingship, economic redistribution, and public spectacle.
    • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “So rice from particular regions, pearls from particular regions, but all the capital that's concentrated in the temple is also very interestingly redirected and reinvested...” [20:01]
  • The impressive engineering involved cranes (not massive ramps) and creative construction methods.
    • William Dalrymple: "You say that's total myth, it's cranes." [21:47]

5. Rajendra Chola and Further Expansion: Ganges, Bengal, and Southeast Asia

[22:09–32:10]

• Rajendra, son of Raja Raja, oversees campaigns north to the Ganges and east to Southeast Asia.
  • The role of merchant guilds in provisioning and enabling these distant conquests is emphasized—the Cholas practice an early form of outsourced imperialism.
    • Aniruddh Kanesetti: "The Chola connection to the 500 merchant corporation gives their forces a speed and a range that their rivals simply could not comprehend." [26:25–26:59]
  • The famous Tanjore temple inscription claims conquest of ports in Malaysia, Sumatra, and beyond, but these should be read as political branding, not literal rule.
    • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “Branding doesn't always have to be based on truth, if you ask me.” [30:55]
  • Archaeology shows Tamil merchant colonies with deep linguistic and cultural penetration in Sumatra, more so than actual imperial governance.

6. Society, Slavery, and Social Change

[23:13–25:20]

• The Chola conquests resulted in the enslavement of large numbers of women, who performed court labor (and were also subject to sexual violence).
  • Anita Anand: "So you're talking about slavery. Let's just call it what it is." [23:39]
  • Aniruddh Kanesetti: "It is slavery. And these women are forced to do what slaves all over the world have been doing." [23:43]
• These women did sometimes accumulate wealth and could become patrons of temples, complicating our notion of their status.

7. Decline and Fall: Social Shifts and Tax Strategies

[32:40–35:03]

• The Chola decline was driven less by military defeat than by fiscal overreach and internal shifts.
  • Heavy taxation to fund wars, reliance on mercenary soldiers, and tax evasion (villages transferring land to tax-exempt temples) undermined state control.
    • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “...they raise taxes on the villages, which drives villages into bankruptcy. And the only people who have money left...are the hunter gatherers from the hills...they gift all the lands that they've bought to temples.” [34:15–35:03]
  • Social and religious changes followed in the empire’s wake—most major temple complexes in South India result not from Chola rise but from imaginative reinvention after collapse.
    • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “All the great complex that you see in south India today with the multiple courtyards, these are all products of the fall of the Chola empire, not of the rise.” [34:06]

8. Legacy: From India to China and the World

[35:09–36:44]

• The Chola’s cosmopolitan legacy is reflected in a Tamil temple built in Guangzhou (China) by merchant groups under Mongol permission—evidence of medieval globalization, hybrid art, and enduring cultural networks.
  • Aniruddh Kanesetti: “...all the artisans were Chinese and so they depict the gods with Chinese faces. You see the famous story of Vishnu rescuing the elephant from the crocodile, but the crocodile is standing in a pool that's depicted with these swirling daoist style clouds.” [36:09–36:37]
• The Chola brand, Kanesetti notes, persists in memory, architecture, and continued debates about identity and history.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “To oppose the cholas is to oppose the God himself.”
  – Aniruddh Kanesetti [04:07]

• "It's a media campaign. It's a total media campaign."
  – Anita Anand [04:34]

• "He’s a boy’s boy."
  – William Dalrymple on Raja Raja Chola [05:36]

• "Raja Raja recruited guys with a different kind of talent, the guys who had a talent for organized violence."
  – Aniruddh Kanesetti [05:01]

• “The Cholas are absolutely, absolutely unapologetic about conquest…and I don’t mean to pass a moral judgment on this. This was the way that medieval polities worked."
  – Aniruddh Kanesetti [13:09]

• "We have Chalukya inscriptions… specifically accusing them of raping Brahmin women. So that is the evidence."
  – William Dalrymple [13:57]

• “Branding doesn’t always have to be based on truth, if you ask me.”
  – Aniruddh Kanesetti [30:55]

• “All the great complex that you see in south India today with the multiple courtyards, these are all products of the fall of the Chola empire, not of the rise.”
  – Aniruddh Kanesetti [34:06]

• “And it's this extraordinary relic of medieval globalization and the tremendous forces that Chola's unleashed.”
  – Aniruddh Kanesetti [36:38]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:39 — Sembian Mahadevi and the Chola media strategy
• 04:37 — Raja Raja Chola’s rise and approach to power
• 07:13 — “India’s Alexander the Great” and military expansion
• 09:09 — Merchants and the trigger for the invasion of Sri Lanka
• 13:09 — Acknowledging Chola violence: sacking, slaughter, slavery
• 18:14 — Building the great Tanjore temple
• 22:09 — Rajendra Chola's personality, court, and campaigns
• 26:25 — Southeast Asian campaigns: myth vs. archaeology
• 32:40 — The fall of the Cholas and the tax avoidance twist
• 35:09 — Chola temples in China and the age of medieval globalization

Conclusion

This rich conversation busts nationalist myths, emphasizes the complexities of medieval power, and connects the rise and fall of the Cholas to broader dynamics of religion, trade, social change, and global history. Dalrymple, Anand, and Kanesetti make the case for a nuanced, evidence-based approach—one that finds value in exploring not just the glory, but also the contradictions, brutality, ingenuity, and far-reaching impact of an empire whose stories still resonate today.