Empire: Ottoman Gaza—Gunpowder Conquests & Rising Nationalism (Part 6)

Podcast: Empire
Hosts: William Dalrymple, Anita Anand
Guest: Eugene Rogan (Professor of Modern Middle Eastern History, Oxford)
Episode: 296
Date: October 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode chronicles the turbulent transition of Gaza from Mamluk to Ottoman rule, focusing on the pivotal military confrontations, the socio-political transformation under the Ottomans, the evolving nature of Palestinian identity, and the combustible emergence of political nationalism—including early Zionism and local reactions—up to the eve of World War I. Through vivid storytelling and expert insights, Dalrymple, Anand, and Rogan weave together the fate of Gaza with greater shifts across imperial worlds, setting the stage for developments that continue to echo in the present.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Fall of the Mamluks and the Ottoman Conquest (01:29–09:33)

• Backdrop of Mamluk Rule:
  • Mamluks ruled an empire centered in Cairo, controlling Egypt, Syria, and Arabia.
  • By the early 1500s, Gaza thrived as a trade crossroads but was vulnerable due to its strategic position.
• Selim I “the Grim” and Gunpowder Warfare:
  • Ottomans, led by Selim I, pivoted from attacking Persia to confronting the Mamluks, fearing an alliance between their enemies.
  • “His methods of conquest were those that relied on great violence to stun his enemies into submission and hence the sobriquet the Grim.” — Eugene Rogan (04:30)
  • Mamluks fought honorably but were outmatched by Ottoman gunpowder tactics, reminiscent of Alexander the Great’s strategic thinking (05:47).
• Decisive Battle and Aftermath:
  • The defeat at Marj Dabiq (1516) signaled the end of the Mamluks, with Sultan Al-Ashraf Kansuh Al-Ghawri dying dramatically during the retreat (08:54).
  • “With the Ottomans, not just outgunned the Mamluks, but they have a very different philosophy of fighting… down, dirty, quick defeat.” — Anita Anand (06:28)

2. Ottoman Suppression and Administration in Gaza (09:33–14:40)

• Gaza’s Uprising and Devastation:
  • Rumors of Ottoman defeat sparked Gaza’s insurrection, met with brutal Ottoman retaliation.
  • “They level the town and reduced the population to about one sixth its size.” — Eugene Rogan (11:20)
  • Ottoman conquest often involved massacres and scorched earth tactics against rebellious cities.
• Administrative Changes:
  • Under Ottoman rule, there was no province of “Palestine”—the region was folded into provincial structures (e.g., part of Syria).
  • Gaza became part of a broader administrative logic, with autonomy diluted and importance recalibrated (12:23–13:31).

3. Social Fabric and Religious Communities (13:31–18:44)

• Demographics and Cohabitation:
  • Early Ottoman Gaza and surroundings were Muslim-majority with sizeable Jewish and Christian minorities, the latter governed by their own laws and duties.
  • “Christians and Jews of the Ottoman Empire… had an integral part in society and economy. They were protected. You could not take arbitrary action against minorities. But they were distinctly second class citizens.” — Eugene Rogan (15:08)
• Centralization vs. Local Power:
  • Rule largely centralized from Istanbul, but local notables retained real influence through a “politics of notables,” balancing Ottoman and local interests.
• Cosmopolitanism, Not Nationalism—Yet:
  • No significant ethnic or linguistic discrimination among Muslims; religious identity superseded national consciousness.
  • Ottoman ruling elites themselves were often recruited from diverse backgrounds, reflecting a pluralistic imperial ethos.

4. Economic Surge and Political Decentralization (20:08–26:00)

• Economic “White Gold”: The Cotton Boom
  • Local powers like Zahra Al Omar leveraged the booming cotton trade of Galilee and Acre to gain wealth and semi-autonomy, marking the rise of a more distinct Palestinian entity.
  • “The first person to really harness this power is a local tax farmer… Zahra Al Omar… through his access to the cotton of the Galilee, to amass tremendous wealth.” — Eugene Rogan (21:18)
• A Nascent Capitalist Society:
  • While travelers often reported decline and decay, regional elites were amassing wealth via cotton (and later, Jaffa oranges), even as the Ottoman center weakened and regions gained autonomy.

5. Entry of Europe and Rising External Influence (26:00–31:24)

• 19th-Century Upheavals:
  • With the advent of steam shipping and industrial expansion, European intervention grew—diplomatically, religiously (pilgrims, missionaries), and commercially.
  • “Countries only send diplomats to places where they have interests… the Eastern Mediterranean is right there.” — Eugene Rogan (28:52)
• Cartographic and Conceptual Identity:
  • “Palestine” featured on European and regional maps as a Roman toponym, reabsorbed into both European and local Arabic usage (30:34).

6. The Rise of Palestinian Identity and Early Nationalism (31:24–33:09)

• Proto-National Self-Identification:
  • Before the 19th century, identities were civic (town, tribe, religion)—not “Palestinian.”
  • By late 1800s, “Palestinian” as identity marker emerges, especially amid encounter with European nationalism and local changes.
  • “By the time you get to the end of the 19th century... they will begin using the word philistine Palestinian." — Eugene Rogan (31:43)

7. Jewish Communities before and during the Rise of Zionism (34:06–36:54)

• Indigenous Jewish Presence:
  • “It’s really important to remember that there was an indigenous Jewish community in Palestine before Zionism... concentrated in the cities of rabbinic learning such as Safa, Tiberias, Jerusalem, Hebron.” — Eugene Rogan (34:06)
• Push and Pull Factors:
  • Increasing Jewish immigration, especially from Russia after pogroms, reinforced by philanthropy and religious aspirations.
  • “With the turn of antisemitism in the Russian Empire, it drove a larger and larger number of Russian Jews to make the move.” — Eugene Rogan (35:37)

8. The Birth and Ideology of Political Zionism (36:54–45:56)

• Influence of European Nationalism and Antisemitism:
  • Zionism as a response both to religious longing and exclusion/violence in Europe; spurred by the Dreyfus Affair and thinkers like Herzl.
  • “Herzl is in a sense the first intellectual to harness… a distinct political agenda to create a Jewish land in Palestine.” — Eugene Rogan (40:01)
• Early Tensions and Plans:
  • Herzl’s private diary (44:12) outlines the idea of “gently” expropriating land and encouraging local Arabs to move, reflecting the duality of public narrative vs. private strategy.

9. The Founding of Tel Aviv, Rising Conflict, and Palestinian Press (45:56–51:32)

• Tel Aviv’s Symbolism:
  • Founded in 1904—“the first genuinely Jewish city… a distinctly Jewish articulation of urban space.” (46:29–47:25)
• Growing Tensions and Violence:
  • Jaffa riots (1908, 1911) marked growing Arab concerns and resistance to Zionist immigration and land acquisition.
  • Palestinian-Jewish relations became increasingly strained both within and between the communities.
• Local Palestinian Voice:
  • The foundation in 1911 of Philistine newspaper in Jaffa signaled proto-national sentiment and a broader regional readership (50:03).

10. Emergent Palestinian Nationalism and Final Pre-War Tensions (51:32–54:25)

• Quote from Philistine (1914):
  • “In 1914… the Jews were living as Ottoman brothers, loved by all the Ottoman races… The Zionists put an end to all that and prevented any intermingling…” (51:32)
• Stakes on the Eve of WWI:
  • Palestinian nationalism at this point is nascent and repressed under Ottoman rule, while Zionism is a fully articulated and externally supported ideology.
  • “All I would say is at this point, you’re still dealing with a Jewish community in Palestine that is absolutely tiny... But it is the political agenda and the increasing power of land purchase that they were mobilizing that is going to go a long way to creating tensions between the communities of Palestine.” — Eugene Rogan (53:09)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The Ottomans stand to gain far more out of conquering the elderly, mature Mamluk empire before trying to take on the still virile and dangerous Safavids.”
  — Eugene Rogan (05:57)
• “These, we should perhaps remind people, were the only people I think ever to defeat the Mongols, weren’t they? The Mamluks famously see off the Mongols in a way that no other army does at that period.”
  — William Dalrymple (07:45)
• “It was that ethos which undermined their position in battle.”
  — Eugene Rogan, on the Mamluk code of chivalry (08:28)
• “The Ottomans saw their empire as a very cosmopolitan one… Many of the ruling elites… were actually recruited from Balkan Christian communities, brought to Istanbul, converted to Islam.”
  — Eugene Rogan (17:35)
• “Cotton is grown in northeastern Palestine… in the area around Tiberius and the Galilee… the kind of white gold of the 18th century.”
  — Eugene Rogan (21:18)
• “There is a tendency to talk about Ottoman decline… the dynamism of the history of these regions is in defiance of all claims of decline.”
  — Eugene Rogan (24:27)
• On the spread of nationalism:
  “By the time you get to the end of the 19th century… they will begin using the word philistine Palestinian.”
  — Eugene Rogan (31:43)
• On Herzl’s private vision (diary entry, 12 June 1895):
  “We must expropriate gently the private property… try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries while denying it employment in our own country…”
  — read by William Dalrymple (44:12)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Mamluk-Ottoman Clash and Marj Dabiq: 01:29–09:33
• Ottoman Takeover and Repression of Gaza: 09:33–14:40
• Social Fabric & Religious Minorities: 13:31–18:44
• Economic Shifts & Provincial Leaders: 20:08–26:00
• European Involvement & Mapping Palestine: 26:00–31:24
• Emergence of Palestinian Identity: 31:24–33:09
• Jewish Communities & Early Zionism: 34:06–36:54
• Herzl, Zionist Congress, and Land Policy: 40:01–45:56
• Founding of Tel Aviv & Rising Tensions: 45:56–51:32
• Palestinian Press and Proto-Nationalism: 50:03–51:32
• Final Tensions on Eve of WWI: 51:32–54:25

Tone and Style

The episode maintains Empire’s trademark style: vivid, colorful, and accessible history, grounded in scholarly rigor but infused with wry observations and sharp comparisons to contemporary and Western contexts. Rogan’s contributions are consistently clear, measured, and sympathetic to the complexities of identity, community, and imperial transformation, while Anand and Dalrymple probe and steer the conversation with curiosity and directness.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode delivers a rich, interconnected account of how Gaza and its region were shaped by the military, political, and cultural shifts of empires. It helps listeners grasp not only the bloody power struggles which redefined Gaza in the 16th century, but also the profound transformations in economy, social structure, intercommunal relations, and identity which would lay the groundwork for 20th-century conflict. The hosts and guest guide listeners through nuanced narratives—demolishing clichés of decline, highlighting local agency, and tracing the roots of both Palestinian and Zionist national movements—right up to the precipice of World War I, when the simmering local tensions would soon boil over.