Empire Podcast: Churchill's Photographer—From Escaping Genocide to MLK
Episode 317 | December 18, 2025
Hosts: William Dalrymple & Anita Anand
Overview
This episode journeys through the extraordinary life and global legacy of Armenian-Canadian photographer Yousuf Karsh—best known for his iconic “Roaring Lion” portrait of Winston Churchill but whose lens captured countless defining figures of the twentieth century, from FDR and Hemingway to Nehru and Einstein. The hosts trace Karsh’s harrowing childhood escape from the Armenian genocide, his arrival and rise in Canada, and the enduring impact of his images on visual history and collective memory.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Karsh’s Ubiquitous Legacy: More Than Churchill ([03:13]–[05:19])
- Karsh is presented as the “goodie” in contrast the previous episode’s photographer, Heinrich Hoffmann.
- His famous Churchill image became a national symbol of defiance during WWII and is featured on Britain’s £5 note.
- Dalrymple notes the surprising breadth of Karsh’s subjects, including Audrey Hepburn, Salvador Dalí, Albert Einstein, Edmund Hillary, Ernest Hemingway, Che Guevara, Oppenheimer, Khrushchev, and more.
- Anand: “If you live in Great Britain, just take out a five pound note and look at the picture on that note, because it is that roaring lion picture of Karsh’s, of Winston Churchill.” ([03:31])
2. Early Life in Ottoman Mardin: Beauty and Horror ([05:44]–[13:21])
- Karsh was born in 1908 into an Armenian Christian family in Mardin, now Turkey.
- William draws on personal research and testimony from survivors: “It was a terrible, terrible tale because many, many were carried off and done to death in death marches to the Syrian desert. Others went into hiding.” ([06:15])
- Karsh’s memories blend childhood beauty—his mother teaching him to savor “sugar from green leaves”—with the encroaching horrors of genocide.
- Age eight was the turning point: his family endured direct persecution; two uncles were killed after false accusations, Karsh himself delivered food to them in prison.
Notable Quote:
“I saw with my own eyes a dead baby hanging on a butcher’s hook, which was used to suspend a sheep after slaughter. Cruelty for its own sake was everywhere.”
—Yousuf Karsh, quoted by Anand ([12:17])
3. Exodus: Flight from Genocide ([13:21]–[21:07])
- Increasing starvation and violence forced the family to flee; Karsh lost his little sister to typhoid exacerbated by famine.
- Their perilous journey to Syria: bribes, threats, and the omnipresent risk of death. Karsh nearly caused catastrophe by sketching a river littered with bodies, being accused of “spying” by Turkish guards.
- Dalrymple contextualizes the 1922 second wave of expulsions, the long columns of refugees starving across the desert, and the eventual safety found in Aleppo under French rule.
Notable Moment:
“It takes 29 days to complete this journey that should have just taken less than two days by train, but of course, they have to do it by foot. And they are robbed and stripped… every penny, every coin, every piece of jewelry along the way.”
—Anand ([17:51])
4. New Life in Canada: Apprenticeship & Artistic Breakthrough ([24:44]–[27:54])
- After Aleppo, the family saves to send Karsh alone to Ottawa, where his uncle Nakash had built a modest life as a photographer after losing his entire family to the genocide.
- Karsh is an eager pupil, obsessed with lighting and composition, striving to make his subjects look like paintings—a hallmark of his style.
- Uncle Nakash, recognizing Karsh’s prodigious talent (and after Karsh wins a photo prize), sends him to Boston to study under the renowned Armenian photographer John H. Garo.
Notable Quote:
“One of Garo's great gifts was his ability to fascinate, to enchant the subject to such an extent that the latter was really unaware of the act of photography… It was like cooking certain dishes slowly. Perfection in cooking is not always achieved with a high burner.”
—Dalrymple quoting Karsh’s memoir ([29:10])
5. From Small-Town Studio to Political Circles ([27:54]–[34:13])
- Immigration restrictions soon push Karsh back to Ottawa; he resumes work with his uncle but now seeks out opportunity by volunteering for political conferences.
- His big break: photographing high-profile guests at the 1932 Imperial Economic Conference, capturing dignitaries like Neville Chamberlain and Sean O’Casey.
- Karsh’s relationship with actress Solange Gaultier helps him enter the theater world, enriching his artistic and technical repertoire.
6. Becoming “Karsh”: The Making of a Global Name ([34:13]–[35:44])
- Karsh’s talents impress John Buchan (Lord Tweedsmuir), Canadian Governor General and author, who commissions an iconic portrait that becomes a favorite of Queen Elizabeth.
- This assignment opens doors to international statesmen and artists.
7. The Churchill “Roaring Lion” Portrait: An Accidental Masterpiece ([38:33]–[43:16])
- December 1941, Churchill visits Ottawa days after Pearl Harbor to secure American-Canadian wartime unity.
- Thanks to his Ottawa network, Karsh is able to photograph Churchill, but the prime minister is caught off guard and irate at being shanghaied into a sitting.
Iconic Moment:
“He walks up to [Churchill] very swiftly and pulls a cigar out of his mouth. And then he says, forgive me, and then he takes that photo. And the photo you see on your five-pound notes, glowering, Churchill, what the hell happened to my cigar? It’s basically the photo.”
—Anand ([42:22])
- The resulting glower becomes the enduring image of British wartime determination. Churchill, ultimately amused, allows a second (smiling) portrait, but the world prefers the “roaring lion.”
Notable Quote:
“You can make even a roaring lion stand still to be photographed.”
—Churchill to Karsh ([43:04])
8. The Karsh Method: Vignettes and Encounters with Icons ([43:16]–[45:03])
- Karsh connects deeply with subjects, from a young Elizabeth Taylor to Albert Einstein (discussing religion and science during their session).
- He is professional even with subjects he dislikes—famously detested George Bernard Shaw, who made callous jokes about the Armenian genocide.
- Dalrymple marvels at the technical mastery of Karsh’s lighting and composition, calling every photo “absolutely perfect.”
9. Final Years and Legacy ([45:57]–[47:15])
- Karsh died in Boston in 2002, widely eulogized as the “greatest portrait photographer in the monumental manner.”
- The new Armenian republic, grateful to both Karsh and Canada, donated a statue of him to stand in front of Ottawa’s Château Laurier.
- Dalrymple shares that Karsh’s Armenian heritage and survival were long overlooked: “[He] didn’t talk about it. He wrote about it very briefly in his memoirs. And you have to do a lot of digging around to find out what happened to his family.” ([47:15])
10. Hope and Survival: The Armenian Community Today ([48:03]–[49:05])
- Despite historical suffering, Dalrymple relates a recent, optimistic visit to Diabuka: the Armenian church restored, the community reviving, selling its own wine.
- “It’s not a complete story of destruction and despair. The Armenian community have survived in that area.” ([49:05])
Most Memorable Quotes by Timestamp
- [12:17] “I saw with my own eyes a dead baby hanging on a butcher's hook, which was used to suspend a sheep after slaughter. Cruelty for its own sake was everywhere.” —Yousuf Karsh, as read by Anita Anand
- [29:10] “Perfection in cooking is not always achieved with a high burner.” —Karsh (quoting Garo), read by Dalrymple
- [42:22] “He walks up to him very swiftly and pulls a cigar out of his mouth. And then he says, forgive me, and then he takes that photo.” —Anita Anand
- [43:04] “You can make even a roaring lion stand still to be photographed.” —Winston Churchill, as described by Karsh
- [47:15] “Not a man who asks for any self pity about it. And probably the reason you didn't know is he didn't talk about it.” —Anita Anand
- [49:05] “It's not a complete story of destruction and despair. The Armenian community have survived in that area.” —William Dalrymple
Episode Flow & Timeline
- [03:13] — Karsh’s celebrity and most iconic images discussed.
- [05:44] — Karsh’s childhood in Mardin; background of Armenian genocide.
- [13:21] — Specific family trauma, journey to Syria.
- [24:44] — Arrival in Canada; uncle’s mentorship; Karsh’s early artistic pursuits.
- [27:54] — Apprenticeship in Boston with John H. Garo.
- [32:04] — Karsh’s entry into political and artistic circles.
- [34:13] — The Governor General John Buchan portrait.
- [38:33] — The Churchill portrait; the story and legacy.
- [43:16] — Encounters with Einstein, Elizabeth Taylor, and others.
- [45:57] — Karsh’s death, memorials in Canada and Armenia.
- [48:03] — Modern survival and revival of the Armenian community.
Tone & Style
- The episode mixes personal recollection, admiration, and sometimes somber reflection, blending narrative history with anecdotes and wry asides (“Have you seen the pictures of trees? I mean, they’re trees.” —Anand [27:06]).
- Both hosts are respectful of the material’s gravity, especially regarding genocide, and celebrate Karsh’s resilience and artistry without sentimentality.
In Summary
Karsh’s journey—surviving the Armenian genocide, reinventing himself in Canada, and ultimately immortalizing some of modernity’s most influential figures—embodies both the trauma and transcendent hope of the twentieth century. His artistry, resilience, and singular vision left not just a photographic archive, but a testament to survival, creativity, and humanity itself.