Weston Hendricks (7:37)

Yes, sir. Sounds like they keep you real, real busy at the younger age, for sure.

Chris Mullinax (7:42)

Oh, yeah.

Augustus Sexton (7:44)

And so can you talk to us a little bit about, you know, growing up in Maryland with your brother Randy and how y'all got started in the show cattle industry and kind of what ignited your passion through that?

Chris Mullinax (7:57)

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, first, I got to give, you know, my family credit even. I, I actually have, there's a total of, of six of us siblings. I have three older siblings that are substantially older. My, my sister being the youngest, who's nine years older than I am. And you know, so as we were getting of age, you know, to start showing, you know, the, the county fair, that was, that was hallowed ground. I mean, that, that week was, that was pretty special in our family. And my, my mom and dad met at our county fair. My dad was president of the county fair when we were young kids. And, you know, so it was like any county fair. It was, it was pretty special to us, to our family, to our community. And as I started to get to the age of still, when we can start at 8 in Maryland, my sister was kind of finishing up, you know, her 4H career. And she had dabbled a little bit with some Hereford cattle, you know, toward the end of her show career and probably introduced us, Randy and I. Randy's just two years younger, but introduced us to that. And it was a breed that had meant a lot to our family. My grandfather never had a breeding herd of his own, but in. In the era that he did a lot feeding cattle, it was popular to exhibit carloads of fat cattle, carloads of fat steers. And my grandfather and really enjoyed showing carloads of fat steers in particular at the Eastern National Livestock show was the big event in that era. And he. He loved feeding Hereford cattle. And that's kind of where the passion for the breed, I think, started. Really. It was my sister that kind of dabbled with it to begin with. And then Randy and I kind of took off and it was. I remember as a young kid, those first couple of years as we got started, and you know, in particular, I remember 1986 was a big, big year for us. We had a heifer that we had raised that ended up being the supreme champion female at our Maryland State Fair, you know, went on, did really well at our, you know, Eastern national show. And, and I, I remember that time frame just because it. It was. It was so exciting for Randy and I just getting started, and we didn't know what we were doing. We didn't know what we had, you know, and we for. Certainly were a bit barn blind eventually to. To where our cattle were, you know, from a, you know, a competitiveness standpoint, but we loved it. And I think that was the most important thing. Doesn't really matter how good your livestock are if you don't have a passion for it. And that's what I look back and, man, I. I don't know why my dad allowed us to do it, but I remember at age 10, 11, 12 years old, making bull decisions, you know, now we didn't pay for nothing. They. They handled the bill. But, you know, buying semen and breeding cows and, and letting us as kids make those choices, and, you know, it. We made mistakes in that process, no doubt about it, but we also took a really, really vested interest in what we were doing. And, you know, that that's. I. I'm so thankful that our parents had the foresight to let us do those things and make those kind of mistakes, because ultimately it made us fall in love with it more, you know, and, and, you know, we. When I was 12, I guess I was off by maybe a year there on that first call, but 12 or 13, Randy and I went to our first Junior National. It was the National Junior Polled Hereford show in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. And we took three head, of course we were, we knew we were just ready to compete at a national level because, boy, we, we were winning everything there was to win in Maryland. Right? Well, that doesn't necessarily mean you're ready for the national level. And boy, did we find out fast. And, and we took three head. We had a, we're in the first class of the entire show. A steer, I'm showing a steer in the first class. And my dad is videoing up in the stands and fired up and I get pulled out first and he's hooping and hollering and we started from the bottom up. I was last. That judge was pulling from the bottom up. My dad was pretty excited for me to stand last. But you know, we, we took those three head and, and it was eye opening. The other two didn't do much better. But you know, we got to, we got to see the best of the best. It was so mind blowing to us what this level that was out there that we had never seen. I mean, we'd never been outside of the state of Maryland essentially to show anything at that point in our life. And, and it was really important, you know, we, we needed, you know, to get our butts kicked in order to come home. And because we were invested in it, we said, you know what? And because we were, I told people this a lot. I did a podcast a little while ago and I said one thing I'd tell you about my parents and the genetics behind the Mullinix family is I'm double bred, competitive. My dad, my mom, both, they don't do anything without, you know, without the plan to win, you know, without the hopes of winning. And, and, and boy, we, we maybe come home from Murfreesboro with our, you know, tail tucked between our legs, but we were ready to get after it. And, and we didn't go back for several years, but we went back when we were ready to go back and it was, it was really an important time. So, you know, I guess back long, you know, kind of story to your question. That's kind of how it started especially for Randy and I, you know, at a young age and you know, just the chance to sit and listen and learn from else. We were lucky. We had a phenomenal county agent in our home county and he, he didn't settle for just. And he brought in great local judges also because we had some great livestock mines in the area, but he brought them from all over to judge at our county fair, at our state fair, you know, so I feel pretty fortunate that I got to sit and Listen to people like that and, and just grow. And, and we had a, we had a good 4H judging program that got us interested in that as well. You know, and I tell people a lot, not so much that it taught me everything I needed to know to compete at a collegiate level. But it just built on that fire that we had and that interest we had to learn. So you know, that that's kind of where it began. And boy did I don't know that we knew what we were in for eventually. And I look back here, you know, 35 years later and it's pretty amazing where that overgrown 4H Hereford project took us.

Augustus Sexton (15:49)

Oh absolutely. That absolutely answers my question so much more.

Weston Hendricks (15:56)

And with, even with that said, I'm kind of intrigued. So I found out you were from Maryland right before the episode. But a question that I got now is, hey, has Maryland grown in tremendous ways since you showed there? And I mean, I don't know because I don't really study Maryland or the cattle there. But are they fairly competitive nowadays as well?

Chris Mullinax (16:20)

You know, you would be absolutely amazed, guys, as I start to throw out some names of people that have made a crazy mark in the beef cattle industry and the Hereford breed that now have come from Maryland and, and there were plenty of them, you know, before, you know, our family. But one of the things that, you know, years ago as, as part of my time at Butler, one of the things that I did in, in the summers, because I was on a nine month contract, I actually still went back to Maryland for a good portion of the summer and, and I worked with four H programs back there. But I also, you know, in the summer I would take my sophomores at Butler. The, the will be sophomores. So this is the summer before their sophomore year. And we would, we'd make a trip together in June and we went back to Maryland and we made several stops along the way, saw livestock, we did it. I wanted it to be a relaxed kind of just learn trip, not boy, we're preparing for the American Royal, the pressure's on or Louisville or whatever it is. I, I just wanted to see livestock and you know, maybe learn when they didn't even think they were learning so to speak. But you know, we went back and we would put on a clinic in Maryland at my parents farm judging clinic. And then the next day we put on a contest and we did that for 15 years. And it was nothing short of amazing how many spectacular young people were part of that from that Mid Atlantic region. Not just Maryland, but Pennsylvania, Virginia. We got Teams from Ohio, North Carolina, you know, we start getting teams from even further out than that. But part of my goal was to, you know, to give that Murfreesboro, Tennessee experience to all the kids back there, so to speak. You know, bring my team and let them see what opportunities are out there, you know, what things could you do with livestock judging if it's something you really have a passion for, you know, and I, I haven't listened to the whole episode, but Joellen is a great example. Right. You know, Joelle and I was first exposed to her through programs there, you know, and lo and behold, you know, look at what she has done for herself in her career. And, you know, that's what I wanted out of that was to expose young people to opportunity. And it was really, really cool. And I think of other people that I had a chance to coach either at Butler, you know, or at, or at K State. And you know, I think of some other young people that you would know that are doing things today, you know, in the beef cattle side of things in particular, you know, there in your guys state. I know you crossed paths with Drew Schmidt and, and Drew grew up, you know, in Maryland, and we sold him one of his very first show heifers and you know, his experiences through 4H took him to Butler to judge for me. And then he's made a career of things in Texas now. And I think a Morgan Meisenheimer who is, you know, arguably as good a livestock photographer as there is in the country at this point in time. And I started coaching Morgan when she was 8, 9 years old through 4H in Maryland and again, you know, got her exposed to some of this stuff. And you know, so it's, it's people like that, you know, that. And now you think of other where is extended to. And just yesterday, you know, we pictured bulls for K State here for our bull sale coming up the first of March. And Mullet Grimmel Sharkey, she grew up 30, 40 minutes from me in Maryland and has shown national champion Hereford cattle. You know, it's, it's just, it's been pretty cool. And you look through the, you know, the history of, of, you know, Augustus, you appreciate in the Hereford breed how many people, you know that have been on maybe the National Junior Board or won the national showmanship contest. I mean, I know at one point, from the time, time I did Randy did Melissa did a young man named Bradley Cease from Maryland won the national Showmanship contest. I mean it was, it's really cool that, you know, that little speck on the map has some pretty talented people just like anywhere else. And you give them the right resources and opportunity and they'll run with it. And, you know, so it's, it's been a lot of fun over the years to, you know, to, to help, you know, at least introduce, you know, some of those young people. And some of them made choices to go other places to school. And that was the purpose of it too. It wasn't just, hey, come and judge at Butler or come and judge it, you know, and at K State, but, you know, instead it's, you know, here's what's out there. Take advantage of it. You love this. Let me show you how to, you know, let it work for you.

Weston Hendricks (21:57)

The fact that they had that opportunity was, is phenomenal. And I mean, obviously it's shown and grown.

Chris Mullinax (22:06)

Yeah, it's been pretty cool. It's pretty cool.

Augustus Sexton (22:09)

That's a very impressive list of people that you named off, Chris. And I'm sure you could keep on going of other very influential people as well. But you hinted growing up that you had a very impactful county agent and that how, how big was judging in Maryland and kind of what was the pull to go from east coast to the center of the United States for your college education?

Chris Mullinax (22:37)

Hey, what a great question. And yep, my, my, my county agent unfortunately passed away here not too terribly long ago. But his name was Martin Hamilton and he, he was a pretty special man. And in fact, his daughter is. His daughter Rebecca went to school at A and M. I coached her, you know, all through 4H, and she competed on the team there at A and M and still is working for the university. She worked for Dr. Skaggs for a long time, and now I think she is the number one, number one go to person in the president's office for the university. So her dad was a pretty awesome, awesome county agent. And, you know, probably the most important thing that Martin did for me, though, on when I started, I think, you know, a lot, a lot of young people, depends what part of the country you're in. But, you know, those of us that get a chance to start judging when we're 9 years old, like I did, you know, to. I don't know that there's very many that start out and say, my goodness, I love this. You know, it, it's foreign to all of us a little bit. And in particular, you know, no one begins their judging experience with a perfect comfort zone for standing in front of somebody and giving raises, you know, and what Martin was great with, especially with the young people in our program was helping us to find fun in doing it. We looked forward to going to judging practice because he made it fun, you know, and I think that's something we lose track of a little bit in, in anything we do. If you don't fall in love with it first, you'll never be as good at it as your talent may allow you to be. And, and you know, so that, that's what I look back at it in my experience in Maryland, I had a, you know, another great mentor, you know, pair of mentors, you know, obviously my parents, but, you know, Mr. Frank and Ms. Julie Feeser were. That's where we bought our. All of our hogs from growing up. And Frank had had national exposure on the swine industry and he was really, really a key piece to my childhood in helping me, you know, to learn and more about other species too. But, you know, it was. We basically went to two contests. You know, we had one at our county fair and we had one at the state fair. You know, that, that was judging to us. But it was again, back to the competitive side of things. You know, we were amongst our peers and we, we got after it and we really enjoyed it and we had a lot of, you know, we had a lot of great people in our lives. You know, I, again, I think of other people that you guys are going to be familiar with a little bit. I don't know, the Clark boys that are selling some really, really good Angus cattle out of Virginia. Well, their dad grew up four miles down the road from Randy and I and still in the same county. And we grew up as best of friends and fierce competitors. But it was people like that that, you know, we, we enjoyed showing and, or judging with and against and, and became pretty important to us. Just loving it and you know, but to tell you, I went to K State or looked at college thinking about judging. To be truthful, as much as it's meant in my life, I can't honestly tell you that that is what drove my decision. I knew that you could judge in college, but that's about all I knew. I didn't know what collegiate judging really was. So I had been on a C4.8 team. When I was 15 years old, we went to Louisville and along the way we competed at some smaller contests also that had a collegiate division. So I knew it was there, you know, and I, and, and it intrigued me, but I didn't, you know, growing up where we did, you. You're not exposed to that, you know, and see it the way that, that you see it in Texas or, you know, Kansas or even Illinois, some of those states that have great junior college and you know, senior college programs. So I went to K State because when I visited all the places that I did, it had the feel that was right for me. You know, it had a very family atmosphere, it had a tremendous hands on learning component. You know, the school farms are right on campus. You know, things that intrigued me because I knew, man, I'm a visual learner and the more you can show it to me, the better off I'm going to be, you know, and that, that was really, really intriguing to me. And, and you know, we could tell a lot of stories, but also the history of the Hereford breed at Kansas State University is pretty incredible. And a gentleman by the name of Dr. Don Good, who has been incredibly influential, you know, to, you know, to the livestock industry, first judge to ever use a crossbred animal to win a major stock show was Dr. Don Good. You know, he, he was someone that my dad really, really looked highly to. You know, in, in my dad's lifetime as somebody that, you know, was not only seen as a pioneer in the industry, but maybe more importantly, a person of incredible character. And that was a little bit of a tie that our family had. And knowing him a little bit, that drew us to K State to go visit and, and it was a fit. It was just the perfect fit. And you know, I got lucky in a lot of ways. You know, it. No one can ever tell me that the good Lord is, is not looking out for all of us. And when I was in 4H and on a state 4H team and at our state fair, I got the chance to meet a gentleman by the name of Dr. Scott Shockey. And I guess at the time he wasn't Dr. Shockey yet. He was still working on a PhD at the University of Kentucky. And Dr. Shockey had teams at a few of these contests that I competed in when I was on the state team. And you know, it was again, I didn't get to know him, but they did well and it was intriguing to me. And then when he judged our state fair course, you know, my brothers and I had probably the best string of cattle, you know, we ever showed as kids that year. You know, that was an incredible year for us. But, but we won the state fair steer show that year. And then, and it obviously, when you do well, it's memorable, but I could have told you we could have stood third in our class all the, all day long. And I would have been mesmerized by the way he approached evaluation and working a fill ring, you know, and dealing with young people. All of it just, you know, hit home and it, it actually drew me in interest of the University of Kentucky a little bit too. But I had been to visit K State and I just knew I was in love with that place. And crazy things happen, man. It's. I made the decision, I got accepted to K State, made a decision to go there and started in 1992. And Dr. Shockey's first team at Kansas State University was 1992. You know, we basically started on campus at the same time they hired him and, and you know, I, I got to have the coach that I, you know, would have picked also. So that's, that's kind of neat that things come together sometimes like that. And that's why I say there's, there's certainly a higher being at work that, that is putting this puzzle together day by day for us.

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Augustus Sexton (32:12)

That's certainly neat how shock you was able to get there right as you were. And you said earlier how you competed on several different teams at K State and obviously the, the judging team was the most notable but you were a high, you were the high individual at Louisville. Was that 94, 95, 1995?

Chris Mullinax (32:34)

Yep. I was on the team in 95 and I was. It was a pretty memorable day, you know, one that I certainly won't ever forget. But you know I think about the process and more importantly than my success on that day, we were a national champion team also and it was pretty cool. That was in a run that will probably never be duplicated where K State won five consecutive national championships. And you know I was, I was fortunately part of the second one. My brother Randy was on the fourth one and pretty cool that you know two kids from Maryland were, were part of that string and you know, and there's a lot of pieces to the puzzle as to where the, you know, where the Purple Rain name came from, but that's a little of it. And, and that's that, that it drew him here too. And it was pretty cool to be part of that stretch. But yeah, 95, it was, it was pretty, pretty awesome, you know, and we, we didn't win every contest we went to. And I certainly didn't know, like I told you, I, I was, I was a four year student. I had been part of a dairy judging team before I judged livestock. I did some wool judging at K State as well. But obviously the, the pinnacle the, the team, you know, that I had always, you know, been excited to be part of was livestock. And, and I had spectacular teammates. They were awesome. And we just continued to grow and get better and better and better as the year progressed. And I've always said I really felt like at the end I had my day, I was, I, I, you know, I was on the right side, you know, you know, judging can be, you know, sometimes you're on, on the lucky side of things and you got to put yourself in a position to be lucky. And I did. And, and I, I always took a lot of pride and reasons and, and Dr. Shockey gave me the, the freedom to be creative and, and that was, it was a pretty special day and reasons that day too. And so it was a great way to end a collegiate career.

Weston Hendricks (34:59)

Well, hey, that ties in right to my next question. Chris, and kudos to you for such a successful career in college. But what I'd like to know is what was the reasons reply, the reasons room like then versus now and maybe some of your advice of how kids now in college could be more effective. But it's a two part question as well. How have we as livestock evaluators evolved over the years?

Chris Mullinax (35:27)

Yeah. Oh, that is awesome question. We could do a whole nother podcast on it. So if I get long winded, then just stop me. But no question the game has changed. There, there is no doubt about that. But it should, it should consistently evolve, you know, and you know, I think in that time frame one of the things that, that I was in the early stages of from Reasons was the incorporation of performance data and scenarios that was new, you know, not brand brand new, but relatively new. And our breed associations were starting to do more and more with data collection, you know, and it gave us opportunity to blend some predictions, you know, to blend some understanding of industry into a set of reasons. And I Loved that. I still love that. I think that's something, you know, that if a young person wants to separate themselves and reasons at the highest of levels, if you can prove to me and in that two minutes that you not only understand those four animals that are standing there in front of me, but you can also give a little reflection of where they stand, you know, relative to an industry and maybe how they can be utilized in a specific, you know, scenario that may be given to you. I think that's something that. That is a gift and, you know, can be trained and can be worked on, but when it's done right, is an opportunity to really, you know, separate yourself and reasons. And, you know, you ask about the what's the same and what's different. I think the biggest difference today is that we work so hard at it that I used to tell my teams all the time, by the time we got to the national contest at Louisville, or even in junior college, by the time we were getting to the national contests, everybody sounds good. They do. Everybody sounds good. Everybody has good terminology. Where do you put it? How do you put it together? And how do I separate myself from somebody else? You know? And that's where understanding a little deeper, you know, the industry is something that we can continue, I think, to build on. You know, the other thing that I would tell you, a lot of my students have heard this in recent years. And I will tell you probably one other thing that may be different today. And I'm not told I know why it happens in some ways, but it's something that I hope our officials in contests can continue to evolve with reasons. Because today kids sound so incredibly good. They are so well trained that the first set of reasons you hear in a contest is usually pretty good. And yet I don't know that you know for sure what's yet to come. And one of the things that I would tell you, you know, about reasons in 1995, compared to the average contest, you know, in what will be 20, 25, is the spread that officials were willing to give in reasons years ago was unbelievably big, you know. And you guys, you know, can. I'm sure, can appreciate this in. In my last, you know, eight or 10 years of coaching especially, some of my transfer students would get back in the van, you know, and they'd start talking about their reason scores at the first contest, you know, and, you know, they'd say, well, would you talk on the stairs? I got a six. Yeah, I talked to five. I talked an eight. And I'd turn around, I say, you talked a what? And they say, oh, I talked an 8. An 8? How did you get an 8? I've never heard of anybody getting an 8. And I knew what they were talking about. I knew exactly what they meant by it. But when and where did we get to the point in judging that it was a foregone conclusion that you would get a 40 something, right? You know, yeah. And that, that's something that, you know, is different today, man. Honestly, when we were judging, it was, you know, man, you need to get in the 40s most all the time, okay? But it was not uncommon for officials to give out 35s and 36s and 38s and, you know, 28s if they were deserving. And you know, again, I fall back to. The first thing I said is, I know that we are clearly more polished today than we were at that point in time. I get it, okay? But it tells me that we better start falling back and saying, if I'm going to give you a 48, it's going to be because you were so flipping accurate that you deserved it, not just because you sounded good, you know, and, and I see that. I hope that turn is coming back again, you know, and, and all of a sudden I think maybe we'll see. You know, the other thing that has probably changed is in the first half, two thirds of my coaching career, on a very regular basis, a team would win a contest in reasons, you know, they'd be 15, 20, 30. Heck, I can go back to contests that, that I had teams at where we were 50 or 60 points behind other teams before reasons, and we caught and passed. And I think it was because of a willingness to spread reason scores. Whereas today, man, if you're not off the floor pretty clean and maybe not in first or within three or four points of first, it's, huh, it's really tough. And it is in part because everybody is so good. But I, I hope we're, you know, I hope we continue to move down that road where we say accuracy and the ability to break them apart. And that's probably the one thing that I would say also maybe, you know, has changed a little bit as I've taken reasons in some contests now, you know, where I really, over the years pushed students to break things down, to not be afraid to make calls, you know, and the problem with making a call is you're putting your, putting your head out there to be chopped off if you call it wrong, you know, and. But it's part of becoming A great evaluator. And I think if is also something. One of the things I take pride in looking. You know, we can talk about contest wins or whatever, but what's really, really cool is to watch your former students get to judge tons and tons of national shows. And, you know, and I think part of that is because we were never afraid. I hope they feel like we were never afraid to challenge them, to dig deep and to make the hard calls, you know, and learn how to see the things that everybody doesn't see, you know, and, you know, so reasons evolve. And, you know, there are some things that amaze me today, but there's probably also some things that we can still continue to achieve, to be better at, so that we're not only preparing to score points in the reasons room, but more importantly, we're preparing somebody to. To get out there and judge a class of 60 and do it efficiently, and then get on a microphone and describe it in a fashion that everybody understands exactly why you did it.

Weston Hendricks (43:44)

Yes, sir.

Augustus Sexton (43:46)

And you talk about how kids nowadays are. They're so accurate and they're so polished in that, but making sure, first of all that you are accurate, that you're not lying, just saying random stuff. And you talk about how kids are so competitive, that, man, if you're scoring a 41, 42, 43, that is a very low score in today's time frame. Kids are trying to be. Have a 45, 46 be their low set. What is your opinion on giving out 50s in the reasons room?

Chris Mullinax (44:23)

Yeah. So first, I would tell you two things, and I try to explain this. And as. As a competitor, it took me a long time to understand this, but Weston and Gus, I hope you guys can get this. I think we get too focused on the number. I don't care what the number is. You know, like many, many times over the years, I would have students, you know, again, jump back in the van, look through their scores, and say, I thought I talked better than that on. On the market hogs. And I. And that was my low set of the day. I said, well, slow down. What'd you get? I got a 44. Okay, look through the rest of the scores. What was the high score of the day? They go through it. They go through it. They go through it. 45. If that person had decided to scale it up and give that 45 a 50 and give you a 49, all of a sudden, you'd think you'd given a better set. Had you. You know, it's the. The. The. The number is not what matters. It is where does it sit amongst your contemporaries, you know, and that, that's something that, it's tough because the numbers in black and white in front of you, you know, But I think a great reasons taker is one that is willing to spread their scores out. And let's say that first person that comes in and gives me reasons does a bet, does a dang good job, and I say, man, that was accurate. That was what I was looking for. I maybe would have liked to have heard this, that, whatever, but that was incredibly good. And I say, I'm going to start my day at a 45. That's a 45 right? Now, why would I do that? Because what if somebody whooped him later on? I got to have room, right? I got to have room. But what if at the end of the day, that first set was still my best one? I can't go back and change his score or her school. Right. You know, don't, don't get consumed with the number. You know, to me that, that's, that, that to me is, is what way too many contestants do is, is immediately look and see what, what is my lowest number. That was my worst set. No, not necessarily. You know, I, I, we went to a contest one time where a judge gave out like 16 or 1850s and, you know, 40 49s. You know what? We might as well have only given seven sets of reasons because that set of reasons determine nothing in the outcome of the contest. Right. You know, so it's back to your second part of the question about my personal view on giving a 50. You know, we go back through everything we've already talked about and my background, you know, in my collegiate career, in my judging career, really, everything I did always led up to the last one, and that was Louisville and senior college. And in coping, even at a junior college level, when I was taking reasons from my students, I scored every single set of reasons they ever gave to me. I kept it in a spreadsheet. Every card they marked, every set of reasons they gave, I scored it. And I always looked at it that way. If you give me this set at the national contest or in junior college, I would kind of say at Kansas City, Louisville, whatever. You gave this set of reasons to me at a national contest. How would I score it? And that means they gave a lot of 20s and 30s when they were freshmen. Giving their first set of reasons didn't mean they didn't have incredible potential, but they weren't ready for, you know, so I am probably a little Tougher from a scoring perspective. But if. If you're. If. If you get, you know, 549 at the first contest, you ever go to where you got to go from there, you know, there has to be, you know, there's no way that there isn't still improvement to be had. And I think a 50 represents perfection. Right. You know, and I think it's a little different to every person. And I don't have a problem with giving a 50. You know, I probably had a problem with giving 14 of them, you know, but it's. To me, it's. You better have said everything I was wanting to hear. I mean, everything I was wanting to hear. It. It doesn't have to come off perfectly clean, but obviously it's got to come off clean. And then on top of it, what makes a 50 different from one person to the next? I think is a little bit about probably a little personal preference. Did even put it together the way I would have put it together, so to speak, you know, because if it sounds perfect in your mind, in some ways, it's because you approached it a little bit like I would have, if that makes sense, you know, but it's. I've had students talk 50s over the years, and. And I. I had the good fortune to, you know, to talk a 50 at my first collegiate at Denver, you know, and I also talked to some 38, but, you know, it. It. It was pretty cool. And. But again, it's. Don't get hung up in the number. You know, if. If you told me I could talk a 50 and the official would also give, you know, 1849, or I could talk a 49, and the next high set would be a 44. I'll take the 49. Right. Because that's five. Five points I'm gaining on the next highest competitor, you know, and. And that's it. It is. It is way more about where you stack up, you know, relative to, you know, to your contemporaries, than what the digit is itself, so to speak. So, you know, great question. I love the question, but again, I hope there's some perspective in the scoring of reasons from contestants to just say, hey, before I say, this is my bad set, let's look and see what the other scores were. Maybe that's just a recent staker that scored a little bit lower.

Weston Hendricks (51:10)

Yes, sir.

Augustus Sexton (51:12)

I certainly agree how you keep it relative to all your contemporaries around you and not just everyone stacked way up in the upper 40s. But look and see, okay, where does everyone rank? And the reason I asked is Because I've heard some conscious officials who say, oh, well, the highest set, the highest I'll score someone is a 48. Like, I will never give a 49, I'll never give a 50. Or others say, I'll maybe give a 49. And I've seen some guys who have marked a 50. And I asked them like, okay, what was that? And the next set was a couple points lower. And they said, man, that kid just took the words right out of my mouth, presented it perfectly. And that was absolutely what I was looking for. There was nothing else I could give him but a 50.

Chris Mullinax (51:59)

Yeah, and I do like the point you just made. Took the words right out of my mouth. And that's back to what I was saying, you know, what is a 50? In some ways, it's exactly what I wanted to hear, exactly the way I would have put it together. And, and you emphasized the things I would have emphasized. And you know, it, it's, to me, that's, that's where 50, you know, that's where 50 can come from, you know, and again, I, I, I, exactly what you said is dead on. I, you know, I'm talking about, you know, I, as we continue talking, people that you know from, you guys are familiar with. But I'll never forget years ago I, when I had a young Kyle Perez on one of my judging teams. You guys got this. I know, you know, Kyle and Drew both and, but had the good fortune to coach both of those guys. But I remember clear as day, we were finishing a contest and I had a, I had a reasons taker, you know, talk to me just a little bit. And he pointed back to Kyle and he said, you know, that kid is, I said, I do. He said, he's on our team. And he said, oh my goodness. No one in this contest saw the Bulls like that young man did. He absolutely nailed it. And he said, by far and away the best set I heard today. And he talked, I said, he got a 49. And that epistle also gave like 1148, you know, and again it was back to my point of darn it, you're going to sit here and say that he far and away was the best thing you heard today, but you maybe didn't give him the spread that he earned. And that's where I say, as a reasons taker, I hope we can continue to grow and see, you know, and understand when that's the case. And I'm not saying that happens all the time. Lots of times there are four or five people that in Their own way were right on the money. But each one of them missed this, so they end up with the same score. I get that. But man, if you're going to sit there and tell me that that someone was way better than anybody else you heard today, but you scored him one point better than the next 11 people, you know, then I feel bad for the kid that maybe earned that, you know, three or four point spread that could have been.

Weston Hendricks (54:40)

Yes, sir. And one thing I want to ask is like I want to go in depth about. In the reasons room. I've heard of two minute sets getting a 48. I've heard of nothing more than a minute 10 getting a 49. The length of a set. Do you think it's the person giving the set effective and how that correlates?

Chris Mullinax (55:03)

Sure, every set's different is the one thing I would start with. And I think the class dictates length. Where you need to have discussion dictates length. And then you as a competitor have to learn to know what your strengths are also, and I have coach some spectacular evaluators, that one of the things I had to help them learn was how to effectively shorten a set because they maybe weren't just gifted the silver tongue, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, you know, that doesn't mean you can't win judging contests and win reasons, you know, but you have to know what your strengths are and what your limitations are. And the one thing about giving a two minute set of reasons is it also opens the door for 30 seconds more, 40 seconds more possibility of saying something you shouldn't have said or stumbling over something. Right. And I've told students a lot, you know, those that really wanted to say everything I said, what do you think's easier to spit out a minute and 15 seconds or two minutes? It's pretty simple, right? You know, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean that there aren't certain sets that need to be a little longer, you know. And you know, I think we've fallen to that spot where I think a lot of people just say, oh, short as they can be, short as they can be. So, you know what, short in the right places is what's important to me, you know, and maybe there's a pair that needs to be short so that another pair can get more in depth. And that's why I say every class creates its own situation and no two sets of reasons should be the same during a contest. You know, every one of them should take on their own identity and I learned a lot of that from my 4H dairy judging coach. He was spectacular with reasons. I was, you know, it was something that I dabbled in, you know, after I was on a state 4H livestock team. And he was amazing, and he really challenged me to be creative and do things. And, you know, I, I remember sets of reasons. We were preparing for the national contest and he used to audio record every set we gave. And I had given a set and he just raved and raved and raved about it. After I was done the next morning, he said, chris, I listened to that a couple more times and it was, I really, it was, that was something else. He said, but after I've listened to it a little bit, 2 minutes and 45 seconds is probably a little longer than we need to do. So it's pretty long set, you know, but, you know, but at the time, it was probably good for me to learn how to work through a set and do those things and still be able to spit it out and, you know, it again when I pair it paired. Learned how to parrot back properly. It, it was all the difference in the world, you know, but it, it's, it's funny you go through those things because in senior college, I talk about reasons. At Louisville, I never wore a watch. I've never worn a watch in my life. But before the contest, now, Dr. Shockey said, you know, they time you in the room. He said, I think we've been pretty good, but be aware of it. Don't be nervous about it, but they will stop you at two minutes. And so I. One of our alternates that day, great friend of mine, he's on faculty at Butler now. His name's Joe Lybrandt. He was an incredible evaluator himself. And that morning I asked Joe if I could borrow his watch. And we had a set of performance. Dorset Rams ended up the national champion and reserve national champion Ram were in our class. We had a killer scenario. I never looked forward to talking Dorset Rams so much in all my life. Getting that set ready. So I'm getting it ready, and I got some things I really want to tie to in the scenario. I get it all ready. I time it for the first time on Bill's watch, thank God. And it's like 2:15. Like, oh, my goodness, am I glad I had this watch today. And I pair it back, I get it back down to a minute and 45, you know, but again, not that a minute 45. That might be too long on some sets, but I felt like I Had to be at a minute 45 on that set to accomplish what I thought I, I could. And you know, it. You know, again, glad I had a teammate there to bail me out in the moment a little bit by letting me borrow it that day and get under two minutes. But it, yeah, so, but again, I think time, again, every set's different. Don't be, don't lock yourself into thinking a certain time is the right amount. I think you gotta, you gotta make every set be what it needs to be. And I be honest, I've heard sets under a minute that I scored incredibly high. If it's right, it's right.

Augustus Sexton (60:25)

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Chris Mullinax (61:34)

What a killer question. That is awesome. And you know, the first thing I would tell you is that in the moment, as a team, that national championship was always our goal, you know, and it first tells you, don't be afraid to set lofty goals. That's important in life. And sometimes you're going to hit that goal and other times you're not. And you know, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't still strive, you know, to go after it, to set those kind kind of goals for yourself, you know, and you put yourself in the right environment and good things will happen. But I will tell you, as from a coaching perspective, as I move forward, you know, that end result, I learned more and more about what the journey, how important the journey was to get to that end result, you know, and I, I've said this many times. I felt like our team at K State when we got to Louisville, Dr. Shockey could have put you know the seven names that traveled to Louisville. He could have put him in a hat and drawn out five and we were going to win that contest. You know, it's, we had made each other that much better. And. But it was, it was a journey, you know, and to go all the way back, I was the four year student and, you know, while I couldn't be any prouder of the day I happened to have at Louisville, it also started with a terrible day at Denver, you know, and it, it, it allowed me to learn a lot. I had, I had, you know, I already mentioned that I, you know, on the feedlot steers, I talked very well, but, you know, I had a ton of peaks and valleys in that day. And it maybe showed me, hey, I'm capable, I think I can do this, but that I have a lot to learn. And, you know, what it taught me from a coaching perspective is that it is a journey and that at no moment in time will I ever count an individual on my team out because they busted a class or because they talked a bad set or because they had a bad day at a contest. And I wish I can say that I, that I haven't ever seen that because I've seen that. I've seen coaches get so frustrated with a young person just because they had one bad day started. If, you know, if the good Lord, you know, condemned us for one bad day, we'd all be in trouble. Right? You know, and that, that's, that's one thing that it taught me as a coach and now it teaches me as a parent. You gotta let them learn. You gotta let them learn sometimes the hard way, you know, that if you want them to be able to stand on their own two feet like I did in November of 1995 in Louisville, then I needed to have those mistakes in Denver and Fort Worth and Houston and everywhere else along the way in order to continue learning and make myself better. I had teammates that, you know, that made me better in that process too, and, and thankfully never looked down on me because I made a mistake early in my, you know, my judging career. They continued to push me and continued to, you know, be the kind of teammate that I needed in that moment. And I've told people a lot when I was the green one that hadn't gone to junior college, I leaned a lot on those guys to make me better. And, you know, by the time the fall rolled around, I'm excited to say I was pushing them, you know, at a level that they needed to get better to. And, you know, so it's, it's, it's the journey, you know, that the end goal and setting those goals is important, but as a coach and as a, as a parent, you know, you don't give up on somebody just because they're making mistakes. You know, I had a young man years ago at Butler that in one of the early years of the All American program, he ended up being an All American his sophomore year and amongst whatever, 11, 12, you know, on that team in freshman contests. The year before, he was dead last on points and it was not close. And yet he made the floor at every national contest, at a sophomore, as a sophomore, and ended up being an All American.

Augustus Sexton (66:42)

So impressive.

Chris Mullinax (66:44)

You don't, you don't start, you know, counting them out while they're learning, you know.

Weston Hendricks (66:52)

And I agree there's, that just makes me want to persevere more and try even harder. So with that said, I kind of want to transition into something that a lot of people have asked me and, and me and those people have discussed about to ask you. Let's go back to 2019 and 2020, your two year, 10 year at Fort Worth.

Chris Mullinax (67:20)

Absolutely.

Weston Hendricks (67:22)

Arguably one of the greatest exotics to walk planet Earth. And, and then the next year you had two Herefords go grand and reserve overall. And then you go back to this previous year and you have a significant breed here in Texas start to evolve in an incredible way, end up reserving two Texas majors. Yeah, I'd like to know your opinion from. I guess I'd say it started back 2019, 2020, those other breeds evolving and starting to compete at a way high level in the livestock industry as a whole. And your opinion on that, how you see that?

Chris Mullinax (68:01)

Yeah, well, first of all, what an honor. You know, anytime you get to do a show of those magnitudes, you know, just, it is, it is such a pleasure, you know, but it's also.

Weston Hendricks (68:21)

You.

Chris Mullinax (68:21)

Know, it's a, it's obviously challenging, but you have a very, very important job out there, you know, and, and it is no secret to you guys how hard every one of those families works to get that opportunity to maybe be out in the ring for a matter of minutes, you know, to take the lap in many cases with an animal that would win many county fairs, state fairs across the country. That's how deep, that's how good those shows are. It's just, you know, I, I take a lot of pride when I go out there and have had that opportunity because I know how much it means to you guys and I hope that reflects in the way that I try to, you know, treat young people in the ring and, and talk about the livestock, you know, but back to the thought of the competition of those breed cattle, you know, back in these market shows. First of all, I think it's a product of incredible breeders. That's where it starts. Right. You know, I. I didn't just go select those cattle because I thought they were nice representatives of their breed. I have said this many times, and I hope people understand this. I think judging a heifer show and judging a market show are two different things. When I judge a heifer show or a breeding ant show, I'm a very big believer that we have reeds in this country for. In the world for different purposes. Right. That a Brahmin should not look like a herd. Right. And I shouldn't, you know, I shouldn't compare them apples to apples. Right. Because each one of our breeds, and I know this is probably of mine, that in livestock, in the livestock show arena, we continue to have that argument of, well, should they really represent the industry or is it just showcase? You know, and I'm going to continue to do it the way I see it, that I think these should represent the best of the best that should work in the real world also, you know, should a show animal look a little different than a commercial animal?

Weston Hendricks (70:57)

Yeah.

Chris Mullinax (70:58)

But underneath of the bells and whistles, they ought to have all the pieces that should work in the commercial sector as well. That's what I believe, and that's what I'm going to continue to do. And carcass merit is always going to be important to me, you know, along with all the other things that, you know, that we like to see in the show ring. So, you know, again, back to, you know, the part of those breeds, what I think has been awesome is how these breeders have worked so hard within their own breeds to make them that competitive, to make them that good, you know. And, you know, through those years, I would agree in 2019 that to this day, I would put that steer amongst the greatest pieces of livestock that I've ever had the good fortune to judge. And then in 2020, I want everybody to understand, I didn't select those two Hereford steers because they were two Hereford steers.

Weston Hendricks (72:05)

Right.

Chris Mullinax (72:05)

In fact, right after that, you know, a couple days later, somebody asked me, now, Chris, if those two steers had been in that real tough crossbred class, where would they have stood? And I just kind of laughed. I said first and second. And they were like, really? I said, yeah. And this takes me Back to what I think is different in a market animal show. Regardless of what breed they are, regardless of what color they are, regardless of everything else, my personal thought is that they should be a market animal first. When the hide comes off, every one of them are the same, right? You know, they're. They're all an end product. And that's where my discussion begins, you know, and doesn't mean I go into a show trying to guess which one's going to have, you know, the single best carcass. That's what carcass shows are for. There's a lot of things that go into my decision from a visual perspective, but, you know, I didn't select those two because, you know, I thought they were good for their breed. I thought they were the two best market steers at the show, period. You know, and I will always say that. And the same thing that bring us steer is, you know, again, relative to his breed, if you want to talk that way, that guy was a man shot. He was unbelievable. But when we got into that grand drive, I didn't look at him Rangus compared to, you know, Maine, compared to Char compared to semi, compared. I said, which is the best two steers out here? And the semitol was just better than him. And, you know, but he was that good that he was the second best one on that day. So, you know, it's, you know, again, I. Part of judging is, part of what is great about what we do, guys, is there is a level of subjectivity to this that we can all sit around and argue whether I was right or wrong on that day. You know, I love that, you know, it's not black and white, right? There's always going to be variation in opinion, you know, as to whether, you know, a judge, you know, should have used this one instead of that one. You know, what I want to do is finish an event like that, lay down that night and say nothing clouded my judgment. And I told him exactly what I thought. And my champion was absolutely, no doubt about it. My favorite animal in that show and my reserve was the second, you know, and. And that's. That's the fun part about it. In that kind of venue and that kind of depth of quality, you get 10 judges, you'll get 10 different answers. That's okay. That's how good it is. But those, Those are animals, I will tell you that stick in my mind, first of all, because of the. The depth and quality of those events. But secondly, because in each case, they were all pretty darn special critters. So, yeah, it's, it was fun and, and Even back to 2020, you kind of piece that together. And that's the first year I, I was, I guess the last person in 2019 to judge in the old arena, you know, and the first person in 2020 to come over and judge in the new arena. And that place, it was electric, man. And sure, if something happened that hadn't happened for a while, I get it, that probably added to it. But man, it was, it was pretty awesome that, that day. So times I will never forget and Houston for that matter too. That's the, you know, on the, the floor during the rodeo. I mean there's, there is very, very few feelings quite like that.

Weston Hendricks (76:08)

Yes, sir. I've been fortunate to be on the rodeo floor once and I think it was the year before you judged it. It's pretty phenomenal feeling even just like being a showman in class at Fort Worth in the big arena nowadays is just crazy. But now I, I want to ask you a question for the future. You got the National Brahmin show coming up here shortly. I believe it's in March, correct? Yeah, it is. I want to know your thoughts and opinions on what's to be expected, what you're excited for and just what enlightens you, what are you prepared for.

Chris Mullinax (76:46)

Yeah.

Weston Hendricks (76:46)

And maybe how that breeds come along.

Chris Mullinax (76:49)

Yeah, I, I, guys, I can't wait, you know, the International Brahmin show, you know, is I, to be truthful, I've never been there during the International Brahmin show to start with. I've never, you know, coaching, judging teams, you know, that happens in the lead up, you know, to the Houston contest. So we're not on the grounds. We're, you know, we're off, you know, training a team, getting ready for the next week. And you know, so I've never been there to actually during the International Brahmin show, so I can't wait to see it firsthand. That, that is, that is something, you know, I guess if you have bucket list items, I put it on the bucket list. And I'm, I'm excited and can't wait to get out there. What do I expect? Incredible quality at, you know, showcased in a fashion that Houston does everything, you know, that that's what I expect, you know, that that's going to be so cool. And I, and I know, you know, the international audience that is part of that event is something that makes that breed pretty special compared to, you know, some of the other breeds that you'll see. You know, the international contingency and the importance of American Brahman genetics and what those breeders are doing across the world, you know, is probably, you know, as dominant in that breed as it is any breed that we raise here in the United States. So I think that's something that is really unique and really cool about the opportunity I'm going to have. Obviously I grew up in Maryland, didn't see a lot of Brahmin cattle. Yeah, and that's another thing that I love that breed, guys. That breed honestly, has been as enjoyable for me to help teach kids about cattle as any other breed. You know, I think back over the years, you know, here in Kansas we are lucky to have the premier Galvi operation in the history of the breed at the Judd Ranch. And, and you know, I, I have taken teams there multiple times a year for the last, you know, 30 years, 25 odd years. And I've never been exposed to Gelby cattle in my life. And for, you know, much like Brahmins, they have a little different look compared to maybe the standard show animal. And you know, it gave me an opportunity to help young people focus on the things that I think are most important. I know that humps there, I know that skin's there. I know their hip looks different, I know that she, their navel looks different. Look at their feet, look at their structure, look at their body shape. You know, look, look at, go to the things that aren't different. Don't get worried about what is different. You know, and I think there is a, whatever you want to call it, a majestic nature to great Brahmin cattle. You know, that, that, and I've been very fortunate over the years to be able to, to go and see some of the, the best Brahmin cattle in the history of the breed in coaching, judging teams and going to different, different ranches and, and a chance to judge a number of their other shows and, and it's. I, I can't wait. I, I am expecting absolute greatness, you know, nothing less.

Augustus Sexton (80:34)

And going from that, I gotta ask, what was running through your mind the first time you ever saw American influenced cattle in person or Brahmin specifically?

Chris Mullinax (80:44)

So again, I use my experience to help teach other students, you know, and when we went, you know, when we went south for the first time on the judging team in 1995, was the first time I had ever, I had seen Brahman cattle, but it was the first time I had ever had four of them in front of me and been asked to actually evaluate them, you know, and yeah, it Was, you know, it was, it was eye opening, but it, and it took a while. Anybody be lying to say they, you know, unless they grew up with. Around them their whole life, you know, when you haven't and you see them for the first time. Yeah, it's an adjustment. Absolutely. It's an adjustment. Heck, when you judge steers with hair your entire life and you have to judge a slickstarm steer for the first time, is it an adjustment? Of course, you know, but, but again, I, I had a great teacher, first of all, and he helped me to look past those things and, and it, but it was, it was like looking at a foreign creature. You know, it is like nothing I had seen before until I learned to look past the things that made them different. So.

Weston Hendricks (82:02)

Absolutely. Yes sir. So now what I'd like to ask you is just overall of the, I guess per se show cattle industry, what's your opinion on the trends today and what scares you but also what enlightens you?

Chris Mullinax (82:23)

I think we alluded to it a little bit. You know, again, when we say trends, to be honest with you, I hate that word. You know, and I used to tell this, I years ago I had, you know, some students that tried to incorporate the word trend into reasons and I wouldn't let them do it because by definition, what's the word trend mean? Here today, gone tomorrow. Right? Yeah, that's a trend. Right. And I don't know that a trend is healthy long term for anything. Right. You know, it. So again, and it's not that change isn't healthy. I hope that when we talk and use the word trend, I'd rather look and say, hey, what are we doing that are making livestock better? You know, if it's just a trend, I don't want to hear about it. But if it's truly making them better, then I'm all for it, you know, and that, that's something that I think you gotta weigh out just a little bit, you know. And I guess to me, as, as I think about the challenges that I see and I see it with young people getting involved in showing and judging also. You guys are familiar with this. When I was a student, a very high percentage of my teammates had grown up in production agriculture had grown up raising commercial livestock in many cases and showing today that's flipped and that is no one's fault. That's, you know, that's just the evolution of, you know, small family farm, you know, changes, urban sprawl, whatever, you know, and most students today that are getting involved in judging and Showing are doing it because their parents did it and they know the importance of it. They appreciate it. They come in and they're competitive, but they are immersed in the show world and probably not much more. And that's probably the biggest challenge that I see today is what I alluded to earlier is where is that proper blend? Because I think we can do it still. You know, I, I talk about and mentioned Don Good earlier and how Don Good used the first crossbred steer to win a major livestock show in Chicago in 1969. Conoco was an F1 Charlay Angus Cross steer. And I'll get it pretty close, but he was like 15 and a half months old, weighed just around 1300 pounds. He had an 18 inch ribeye. He graded average choice, and he was a yield grade one in 1969. You know, and for him to have the foresight to use a steer like that, because that is what the industry needed, why can't we still do that a little bit in the show ring? And that, that's, that's my challenge. And, and that doesn't mean I'm against the cool pieces. I like, you know, a stout hind leg and a cool front end and, you know, and, you know, hair in the yacht and a neat fit job. I love all those things. I, I, it blows my mind how amazing people are at preparing show animals today, but I want those to be the bonus pieces and I, I hope that's where we can keep it in perspective. And, you know, that that's the thing that, you know, is challenging and exciting maybe all at the same time. How do we teach, continue to teach kids, teach the next generation that it's not just a dog and pony show, you know, that these are animals that hopefully can work and, you know, work in the real world, but have a look of eliteness in the show ring at the same time. So, you know, I guess my answer is both things. I, I'm enlightened, I'm excited that that can still be something that, that I try to teach students that, you know, that maybe some of my former students are doing as coaches in a lot of places today. You know, that we can have that, you know, balancing act, you know, of it being an animal that has true industry value and can look like a lot of those ones we just talked about.

Weston Hendricks (87:21)

Absolutely. Yes, sir.

Augustus Sexton (87:24)

Well, as we start to wrap this up, one thing I want to ask you is, do you have a favorite quote or Bible verse that you like to go by?

Chris Mullinax (87:37)

Yeah, in fact, maybe one of each works for us. I Want one that sticks with me. And I believe it's attributed to Henry Ford. And it's pretty simple, pretty short, but I think it says a lot. Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right. Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right. I, I've always thought, how. How cool is that? And it's 100% about just attitude. Right. You know, have the right approach, you know, and, and go for it, you know, and then, you know, just from, I guess a Bible verse standpoint. And, you know, I, I'm probably going to paraphrase because I'm not 100% sure I'll have every word right. I wish I could say I, I am a memorizer of verse, you know, but again, I think maybe the one that popped to me when you said something that, that maybe is fitting to the things that we talked about, and it's, I believe, First Corinthians. But in general, it basically says, you know, run your spiritual race with the goal of winning.

Weston Hendricks (89:14)

Be competitive.

Chris Mullinax (89:16)

Yeah. But to do so, you know, in a way that, you know, will earn you a lasting crown from Christ. Right. Also win. Go to win. That's cool that, that you should. There's nothing wrong with that. But do it in a fashion, you know, that that makes you proud to have accomplished it the way you did, but also that the Lord looks upon you favorably for doing it that way. And I, you know, those are, you know, those are slightly different, you know, quotes, I guess, slash verse. But I think in the. Amongst the people that are your audience, I think probably can resonate.

Weston Hendricks (90:01)

Absolutely. Yes, sir. And so with that said, we always have our. Our main question. I don't think it's going anywhere because just being honest, everyone's opinion and perspective on it is, Is quite amazing. And so what I'd like to ask you is what empowers you as a person, caretaker, operator, or even a customer to be better than who you were before?

Chris Mullinax (90:30)

What empowers me? Yeah. That's awesome. And I, and my goodness, how many different ways you could take that answer? Actually, it's pretty easy for me, though. My students have always empowered me. That, that's. That that answer is. Is easy to me. And, And. And I'm going to take it a little step further because my favorite students today are my three kids, so I'm going to group them into that, you know, to that grouping. But my students have. Have always been what has empowered me. And in particular, when you get to the point, I am in my career. Not. Not that I feel like I'm done, but I started coaching judging teams when I. Collegiate judging teams when I was 21 years old. And so I've had, you know, 27 years of some of the greatest young people in the country that today are doing some of the most amazing things. You know, I think about, you know, former students, like a Shane Bedwell, you know, who, you know, never showed an animal is in his life, you know, and had done very minimal judging, you know, before he came to Butler. And, you know, some of the most enjoyable things, you know, one that you're very familiar with. Adrian Austin Kane, her brother, hell, the. The Scott and boys, I think you had Skyler on, you know, Brady Jensen. I. I could come up with a list, you know, a mile long, you know, of students that have just done, you know, absolutely amazing things after they left our program. And they were things they were destined to do. But I do think the people we surrounded them during those years helped them to make even bigger strides when they went back to whatever their calling was. And so today, they continue to empower me. They make me better. Somebody asked me the other day about judges that I like to listen to. My favorite people to watch. Those are my favorite former students. And it's for two reasons. Number one, it's not that their upbringing, their families have meant way more to who they are than the. The couple years they spent with me, but it is a little bit of a dad moment, if that makes sense.

Weston Hendricks (93:07)

Yes.

Chris Mullinax (93:07)

You know, it's to watch them. There is a little bit of pride that you take in that. But the most enjoyable thing that I like to do when I watch and listen to them at a show is I. I like to see those moments when I disagree and then listen to what they say and then be able to look back and. And be proud of the fact we're not creating cookie cutters in this business. We're creating people to think for themselves. And the fact that I would have done it different than them is incredibly healthy. It's awesome. And, you know, if. If they. If they justify it and they, you know, are. Are ultimately satisfied in their decision, that's why they were hired. And I tell my students all the time over the years, I said, when they ask you to come judge a show, they ask you for your opinion. Not for mine, not for the person judging ring A. When you're judging ring B, you know, it's your opportunity. Take pride in it and do it your way. And that's empowering. And to me, that is really, really fun. And a great, great part of being an educator is getting to see your students mature into their careers and the things they get to do and, and, and give back. And when you see them doing it the way they're doing it, it, it makes me walk back into a classroom as excited as the first time I walked in a classroom. And that's, I think that's the definition of empowerment, isn't it?

Weston Hendricks (94:52)

Yes, sir, it most definitely is. Ranch House Designs is America's rural marketing hub. They're a proud sponsor of EmpowerU's new and improved website. We couldn't be more grateful for their efforts in helping us build a brand. But with that said, they can do the same for you. Creating and backing some of the biggest brands and websites in the industry. Trust the process and Visit them@ranchhousedesigns.com.

Augustus Sexton (95:18)

That'S really neat how you say that. You know, when you disagree and they're stepping out there and saying their opinion and how you tie that back to when you're coaching those kids as judgers to go and place them, how you think they need to be placed, talk them how you see them, and don't, don't let anybody tell you any different because it's your opinion and you're going out there and laying yourself on the line.

Chris Mullinax (95:49)

Yeah, what a great point. It's. Again, we all have pet peeves, and maybe it got me in trouble as a coach at times. And I'm not saying everyone has to coach the way they see fit, but I will tell you, one of my biggest pet peeves over the years is when I'd have students ask me, well, what's the good contest card? Yeah, like what? Yeah, what? I said, no, it's just what's right. And you know, it's also funny, over the years, I, you know, took while for kids to get used to it, but when we would talk classes, I'd go through everything, we'd talk about it, you know, and, you know, there's lots of times where you say, guys, you have to have this one last. If you're reading these right, this one's got to be last and that one has to be third. If everything we've said here makes sense, this is not an opinion thing. This is, this is a must. And now you're left with these two, and we've talked about them. Here are the differences. Do what you want to do. And notoriously, in the first few days of practice, I'll immediately have a kid. Well, Chris, how did you Place them. I like them both. Yeah, but. Yeah, but how'd you place them again? You're worried about the number, aren't you? Yeah. Worried about whether you got a 50 or you got a 48, when in the big scheme of things, doesn't matter, you know? Do I have an opinion? Of course I have an opinion. Right. But I want you to have an opinion also. That's healthy. Do it the way that you want to do it, you know, And I think long term, you know, being able to make those decisions for yourself and feel comfortable with it is way bigger than any judging contest will ever enter, so.

Weston Hendricks (97:32)

Absolutely. I love that. I love that viewpoint. I do. I appreciate your honesty for it.

Chris Mullinax (97:39)

Well, guys, what you're doing is so cool. Keep it up. It's going to continue to, you know, it's going to continue to give you opportunities to. To learn, too. That's the thing that I like is, you know, even the people, although they do different things, the people that you've had as part of this up to this point, in their own way, they're all incredible teachers. Right. And you guys, through this opportunity and through this podcast, you're growing a network and you are. You're learning from some of the best people in the business. So keep it up and. And look forward to seeing you guys down the road somewhere.

Weston Hendricks (98:19)

Absolutely.

Augustus Sexton (98:19)

Yes, sir. Before we finish up, we like to have a scripture reading. This episode's verse is Daniel 12, verse 3 says, those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. And I think that ties to this episode very well. How you talk about being wise and learning from great industry leaders, but also you have now been able to impact so many people who are leaving a very large impact on the livestock industry. I think that verse ties to this episode in amazing ways. And one thing I will say, there's been so many Bible verses that tie to the episode so well, and we do not plan that at all. That's just God working the way that the episodes go and that. And like I said, so many verses tied together. And we have the verses picked out when we're putting the questions together. And how our guest answer the questions is the way that the episode goes. We don't determine that at all.

Chris Mullinax (99:35)

That's awesome. That's really cool, guys.

Weston Hendricks (99:37)

Yes, sir. We appreciate you spending the time that you did on here. It means a lot. We give you the condolences and blessings to you and your family and the future to come. And we just hope that everything goes well and we appreciate you being on here. It does does mean a lot. And so with that said, this is going to be episode nine with Mr. Chris Mullinax, and we'll be tuning in here shortly with our next episode. Thank you all for tuning in. This is empowering. You See y'all next time.

Quinn Hartley (100:14)

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Augustus Sexton (100:24)

But also go take a look at our new website, empowerupod.com where you find our team's story, sponsor updates and much more. Once again, we just want to thank you all for tuning in. And please follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcast and leave a five star rating. If you like what you hear, have a blessed day.