Ferris Simon (4:53)

Right. And so, I mean, just talking about you growing up. What were the Cadillac then versus now in your mind?

Kevin Mock (5:00)

Well, they were much lower quality, that's for sure. They were bigger cattle. They were dang sure cheaper than what they are now. I think my first show steer I bought when I was in fifth grade was 800 bucks. So, you know, I think we're tacking a couple zeros onto those now. At least one, if not two zeros to some of those. You know, AI and art, AI and ET probably wasn't as prevalent then, but they were taller cattle. They were later maturing cattle. We expected them to finish at, you know, 12 or 1250. We're now, we're into well into the mid 14s on that. They dang sure didn't have hair. And then, you know, just in terms of presentation, that did not have the grooming products or the tools or any of that stuff that we. We currently have by any means.

Ferris Simon (5:49)

Right. And so, I mean, just talking about that, I'd like to know, being from California, what does it take to make a good show steer? And, you know, what's the market in California specifically right now?

Kevin Mock (6:02)

I think it's a good show steers. A good show steer probably anywhere. I think the fundamentals are the same here as they are in Texas, as they are in Iowa, which is, to me, it's something that's got a blend of muscle and body and boxy build and sound structured. And then, of course, they're show cattle, so we want to be good looking too. They should be an acceptable market weight and they should be fat. You know, out here, the market's different because then it is a lot of places we have a lot of county fairs. So in a lot of our county fairs are terminal. I know they're in Texas that you guys have like, premium sales and whatnot. And I know in, like, different places, Iowa and the Midwest, they have these like, showdowns. And. But our county fairs are terminal. So if there's 50 steers and they're all deemed market ready by the judge, then then all of those steers get sold in a sale and they get harvested. And the people that buy them will take those cattle normally and put the meat in their freezer, give it out to somebody or whatnot. So that's probably like the key component that's different. The county fair market in California is very, very strong. I would say, though, that the demand for that really, really top tier is probably definitely less than it is in other states. So, like, for our business, if it wasn't for, like, the advent of online sales. I question if we could have the scale that we do now because, you know, 50 to 60% of the cattle we sell, they go somewhere else. They don't stay in California because it's super easy to put them on a bus and send them to Texas or Iowa or Ohio or wherever. And people are really, it's really easy for them to buy something on the Internet now too, where it wasn't maybe 10 years ago. Easy to find.

Ferris Simon (7:45)

And just talking about you shipping steers out of state into different regions, I'd like to know how you built your name to be able to sell those show steers to different states and cooperate with different breeders and be able to collaborate with them.

Kevin Mock (8:00)

So it's rather, I think it was rather simple. We have a policy here of if you called me about a calf, I'm going to tell you everything about the calf, good and bad. Even though the things that aren't good about the calf, let's say he's, you know, his feet aren't great or maybe he's a pinch straight or whatever. Or if you say, hey, I'm trying to win such and such state fair, I think I've been known to straight up just say like, that calf's not good enough to do that. I don't think you should buy him. That's gotten me more business and more longevity in this business. And anything because you're trusting me with now is considerable amount of money. And normally people bid to whatever their budget is, right? So if your budget's $7,500 or $3,000 or $75,000, you as a sight unseen buyer, trusting me with what you're considering as much as you can spend oftentimes, right? Like whatever that boundary is, normally these customers are saying like that's, that's when I'm tapped out. So if you're putting that kind of trust in me, then the way I look at it is when that calf hops off the bus in Texas, he needs to be better than what I told you he was, otherwise you're not going to come back. And this whole thing doesn't work just based on our geographic location. There has to be a certain level of trust there of I'm telling you what it is. Now granted, after a 24 hour truck ride, they look pretty tough. You can ask anyone, they look tired after that ride. So I like to say let them fill back up for a couple of weeks before you really judge. Nonetheless, it's this whole business to me is based on trust and honesty. And telling the customer exactly what you think of the cattle, whether it is in your financial best interest or isn't. And that's kind of how we've gotten to where we are.

Ferris Simon (10:16)

Right. And just talking about you being honest with the customer. How important is it to be as blunt, honest as you can when it comes to selling these things online?

Kevin Mock (10:26)

It's the most important thing. I mean, it has to be. Has to be. Yeah. I have to tell you the truth. Otherwise, it doesn't work.

Ferris Simon (10:37)

And so when we come to, you know, selling these things and they're at a young age, how would you tell someone to evaluate these show steers at the time to sell? Especially that they're maturing so much faster with the genetics that we've built.

Kevin Mock (10:52)

It. Definitely. I think you still have to stick to the basics. Okay. I think you still have to read. Get comfortable reading structure. You know, everyone. It's a cliche. You hear all the judges say, like, we start the cattle at the ground. But it's true. I mean, they have to be durable, especially in your part of the world where their show days are really long. Like, I always think about how long of a show day a calf would have at Fort Worth and how durable they have to be. Right. Like, they have to stand for a couple, you know, an hour and a half while they get washed and dressed, and then they stand in that breezeway for an hour, and then they walk to the next holding area and stand, and then they walk the Lord knows how many miles they're in the coliseum. And then if they just. It's like, boy, that calf really needs to be durable, and they have to survive that long day. So my point is, is I think the fundamentals still say the same. The big. The best advice I can give to anyone is I think you. You just need to feed the ones you like. I think if you're happy and you're pumped up to get up every day, and it goes the same with raising them. Like, if you're pumped up every day to go out there and haul a feed bucket, that calf, I'm pretty sure they're gonna end up looking better at the end than if one. You went out there and, like, I hate that calf. Like, I tried to buy that calf for this judge, and I hate him. I just don't think it's going to be as good. I just don't ever think if you're not motivated that you're going to have the results that you want to have. You're just not going to be Pleased with your finished artwork, I guess.

Ferris Simon (12:29)

Right. And you mentioned, you know, talking about these calves walking miles inside the coliseum or wherever the ring is set up. I'd like to know your opinion on the trends today, what scares you and what enlightens you. Because I mean, obviously cattle have changed throughout the past 10 years, especially in the haired and slick world. I'd like to know where your thoughts lay in that.

Kevin Mock (12:55)

There, there's a lot of different things. You know, there's we, we talked about price. I brought cost and value these cattle up earlier. I think that's exciting and it's scary. You know, it's scary because the value. I'm afraid that there could be a little bit of sticker shock on what these things cost and can cost. And hey, I like to sell one high is as good as the next guy. Like the input cost is another part of that trend and they keep going up every year. So you kind of need to sell some high to make it all work financially. I get concerned and I can see it. And some of the people that do visit me from out here is, you know, you start selling cattle of a certain price point or they see them cost a certain number and they just kind of throw their hands up and they say, hey, I can't do this right. I can't compete with that. Which I don't necessarily think is true because there's stories of cattle that bring more moderate amounts that go on to do a lot of good with that. On the flip side of that same coin is, and this is something that a gentleman in Indiana named Isaiah Bridwell brought up to me in a text exchange last year. We're talking about the price these catt. Look at how much outside capital from other, other businesses is coming into this business. Because these cattle are bringing a lot of money, right? Like, you know, maybe it's, it's something from the farming sector or commercial real estate sector or health care, wherever these folks are making their money that they want to spend on their kids project or within their herd. So that, that's a, that's a good thing. Something else that gets me excited, I think is the talent level of some of these young kids that are clipping and fitting. I was up in the Midwest the past couple weeks for some of these state fairs and I was specifically it's junior fit there and watching how talented some of these 14, 15 year old, 16 year old kids are at fit in the leg and doing all that kind of stuff makes me excited for the industry. They're quite a Bit better than than I am currently, which is kind of scary how good that, you know, maybe their ceiling is. And just seeing the passion for some of those that some of those kids have for what they're doing is pretty exciting. I like that we are getting the finished weight of these cattle, it seems is trending heavier, which is more towards real world kind of finish weights and carcass weights. So that kind of excites me to see that alignment. But with that you're going to see some extra maturity and you kind of touched on that earlier. It seems like we're making these cattle older and older to compete, and I don't know if I like that or don't like that. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. There's probably a line in there somewhere where they start to look a little bit too old and they're not fresh. But as long as we still want them bigger and heavier, you know, one way to do it is to make them older, you know, especially if we're not improving their feed conversion and the way they gain. So I guess that's a tbd. What about, what about you? Do you have some trends or anything that you've been thinking about that excites you, concern you or want more input on?

Ferris Simon (16:10)

Man, you put me on the spot with that one. I guess a trend that I like in the show ring right now is being able to watch these champions and how diverse the judges opinions are. Because you have some that like a type and kind that are super stout and powerful but maybe can't move quite as good. And then you have some judges that like them extremely sound, but will take away some of that muscle to be able to be that sound. But my favorite thing is right now we're having some judges that like a complete market steer and are able to bring both sides of the of the spectrum together. And I think that we're able to start making cattle that can do both just as good and make that complete champion. And I think that's something that is needed, especially with the genetics that we're all able to buy into and make today. That's a trend that I really like a lot that I think anybody would, I mean, hopefully like to see happen in the industry. But another thing is like, like you talked about these kids clipping and fitting. I'm gonna be completely honest, I'm not all too good with a set of blades, but I'm in a dorm room with two guys who are incredibly good with a set of blades and they come from the boonies of Louisiana, Mr. Luke Domain and Lane Gilbo. They're actually sitting in here with me trying to get all the info and info and knowledge that they can soak up. But with all that said, being able to watch the youth trying to improve, to make the next generation better is just something that is really awesome for me. And I think that maybe I wish I could have had that same passion at that young of an age. And maybe it's not for everybody at that age, but when you're offered that opportunity, take it, because there's some people that aren't. But even talking about just the clipping side of things, I mean, you do a lot of clipping. Not only did you clip the reserve champions, Fort Worth steer who did make history as the American steer, but what are some tips that you can give to the people about clipping and what do you recommend to become the best fitter?

Kevin Mock (18:28)

So I think it depends on where, where on the spectrum you are in terms of your experience and talent level. If you're so. And let me reframe. You know, in the, in the intro you talked about clipping. My clipping talent or prowess, I like to say, like, on the spectrum, I'm probably in the category of like, I can hold my own and not mess one up. I don't feel like I'm one of them, like legendary guys that are just, you know, the ones that, where the hair looks different when it comes off their blade. Like I'm, I'm a, hey, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna ruin a good one. And I think that was the case on that one of caps that you're referencing. That American, like, I didn't ruin what was an awesome calf. I don't know that I made them a whole lot better because that calf was really, really good to begin with. And they did an awesome job getting his skin and hair right where some hammerhead like me didn't mess it up. Going back to answering your question is if you have like very, very little experience, I would suggest going to one of them clinics. There's a lot of us of my vintage and a little older and a little younger that went to Kirk Stewart clinic. I think Kirk still does those clinics. Kirk has a very unique and like God given ability, I think, to communicate different. What should be complex techniques or things that are hard to explain in a very easy to explain way to someone that may not have any context. Like if you don't know anything about clipping and fitting and you go and you spend a couple Days with Kirk. He has like this fascinating and unique way to like, in a very gentle way to explain what you're supposed to be doing. And the last, you know, I've had a couple kids that buy calves from us that have gone to some of those in the last couple years. And it sounds like that technique is still alive and well with Kirk. And he goes around the countryside. If you don't know much or even if you know something, I'd definitely recommend one of those. Them stock show you clinics are pretty good too. But if you've got some ability and some talent and like I said, I have felt like I wasn't like a high ability person when I started. It's just mostly been a lot of reps. So if you can get on a. If you can have the humility to go and get on a crew where everyone on the crew is very, very good, and you can have the humility to go and fit an offside front leg 200 times before they call you up to do the show side front leg. Because fitting on a calf is really a hierarchy of talent in a sense, right? The guy that's the. The guy or g gal that is the most. Normally the most talented with a can of glue and a clippers is on the show side back leg. And then maybe they do the flank and then like, the next best person's probably doing the offside and then, then the show side front, and then, you know, maybe the least. The most beginner, least talented persons on the offside front. That's kind of the general hierarchy on fit in the calf. If you have the humility of being to say, like, I might have been the best fitter in my hometown of, you know, wherever you're from, but I'm now going to school in Brenham, Texas or Stillwater. And I may not be the best guy, but I want to be the best. And you go get on so and so's crew and you're like, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna perfect this offside front leg until they call me up one slot. And I'm gonna do that and spend several years doing it. That's how you get good, is by being around guys that are willing to tell you or girls that are willing to tell you, like, that looks like trash. You need to step your game up and do it in a constructive criticism way. But if you're always like, to me, even if you have talent and you're off just like fitting by yourself and you're never testing your skills against, like, In a competitive nature with people that are better than you, or seeing how people that are better than you are doing it, you're probably not going to improve that much. So like a lot of reps on a lot of different hair types, a lot of different, like, animal qualities, good hair, bad hair, well cared for cattle, poorly cared for cattle. I think reps is really, really important. Cattle that stand still, cattle that dance around, you know, cattle that kick at you. I mean, just a little bit of everything. Lots of reps. And eventually over a long period of time or a longer period of time, you can get better. And just to kind of like a little anecdote, we got this neighbor kid here. I say he's a kid, he's probably older than you. He's probably 25. His name's Cody Sullivan and he grew up in our barn and when we first gave him set of clippers, he was like scary, scary, scary bad. And we didn't think he, we didn't think he had it. But after two years of messing around, he finally got it. And he's been our, our show side front leg specialist now for like the last two years. And I'd put him up against about anyone fitting a show side front leg. Like, I'll, I'd turn him loose on anything. So it's just, it's just a way of saying being around folks that are willing to give you good feedback and doing the work, doing the reps, trying it over and over and perfecting it, that's, that's probably the best advice I can give you.

Augustus Sexton (24:09)

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Ferris Simon (24:35)

And that's awesome. Well, and just talking about how you mentored Cody and able to build him up, I'd like to know what were some of your mentors growing up that made you become so successful? And what do you think makes a good mentor?

Kevin Mock (24:54)

Oh, you surprised me with this one.

Ferris Simon (24:58)

I did. I wanted the blunt, honest truth.

Kevin Mock (25:01)

You know, the, the, that's asking the question from left field, something I used to do when I had a bunch of interviews. So kudos to you. That's a good technique. I'll answer the second part of the question first, I think a good mentor is someone that's willing to give information and expect nothing in return. Right. You're giving just because it's the right thing to do and it is good for the benefit of, you know, in this instance, it'd be the show cattle community. I'm obviously a beneficiary of that because it's not like I'm a second or third or fourth generation livestock producer. So everything, all the information I've acquired is first hand knowledge and acquired from somebody else or other people. So in a simplistic form, someone that's generous with their time, generous with their information, that's patient and just willing to. Just willing to give with no ulterior motive is probably the best definition of a mentor that I can think of. For me, that person has been Colby Collins from Frederick, Oklahoma, or I guess the ranch is in Chattanooga. Longtime friend. Met Colby when I was 16. Started buying cash from around that time. 15. I was either 15 or 16 when we bought our first calf from him. We were actually introduced to him by that James Bright that I referenced earlier in my story. Bought several calves from Colby. Guy taught me a lot about fitting and clipping. Lived out there summer. Learned a lot about working and ranching, breeding cows and just kind of how to operate a ranch, like what you're supposed to be doing, what you're not supposed to be doing. And still probably talk to Colby once a week or twice a month probably, and still learn a lot from them all the time on all sorts of things. Now, you know, now sometimes the conversations. He, He's a father of three daughters. I just had my first daughter, she turned 10 months old the other day. So, you know, he's.

Ferris Simon (27:16)

Congrats.

Kevin Mock (27:17)

Yeah, thank you. He's got girls ranging from, I think like 16 to 7, I think. So I'm. I'm going to be asking them probably more questions about being a girl dad and fatherhood than. And then cattle stuff probably. And that's kind of how it's been going lately. But to me, that's probably someone that was very, very impactful on my life. That gave me a lot of information, a lot of time when he didn't really have to, you know, and that's kind of the definition of that. And another person, and I get a little bit emotional talking about this because he's no longer with us. But Rick Fry, he passed away a couple years ago. Another really good friend and same kind of thing. Learned a lot about mating cows, learned a lot about Learned a lot from Rick about how to sell cattle and what ways to sell cattle. It's ironic because the way we conduct our sales now and the way we do things is stuff that he advised us to do. Before he passed, he never. He used to be my rep at SEO, so he didn't ever really get to see what we're doing now, which is kind of a. Makes me feel a little bit sad when I think about it. But I think he'd be pleased with what we've accomplished since then and just always gave really, really good, unfiltered advice. That's probably the other thing I forgot to mention earlier. Like, a good mentor will be comfortable telling you when you're completely out to lunch or if it's a bad idea, they'll just. They'll tell you direct, like, don't do that. That's a bad idea. You would be better off doing this over here, you know, in a. In a humble way. In a humble way. So. Yeah.

Ferris Simon (28:59)

Yes, sir. And just talking about your mentors and then teaching you how to build relationship relationships and such, I would like to know, when it comes to you collaborating with these other breeders, whether they're in Texas or the Midwest or. Or wherever, what do you think makes the best relationship? To be able to say, hey, I'm going to send you my best, and I want you to give him to a family that'll make him the most successful that he can. How did you build those relationships? Like, for instance, Brent Cromwell, Willie Weiss, all these people. What allowed you to do that and what's your perspective on that?

Kevin Mock (29:43)

I think it all goes back to trust. So I met both those guys through intermediaries. I met Willie through our mutual friend, one, my best friend, John De Clerk. And then I met Brent because, you know, his wife's from California, and he just randomly called one day and he was visiting his wife's family, Michaela's family out here. She grew up about an hour and a half from me, wanted to look at calves, and we drove around and actually shot a bunch of wild hogs. So, you know, Brent and Hudson also likes to kill wild hogs. We actually killed more wild hogs than we did looking at cattle that day. And it was a lot of fun. And that's kind of the first time we had really spent together, even though we had a little bit of crossover there when I was at A. M. And he was at Blynn. Not. Not much because we had. We had a little bit of age gap. So I don't. I don't really remember crossing paths with them too much. So that's probably why I let him on the ranch in the first place, because I didn't have too bad of a taste in my mouth when he was in college. But in all seriousness, trust is probably the most important thing in. Alignment of interests is right in there with that. And what I mean by that is alignment of interest and alignment of goals and understanding what, like me understanding what they're trying to do with their program in general and what their needs are for a calf, and then them understanding what my expectations and what my goals are. I think recently my goals have gotten a little bit simpler in the sense, you know, my goals are I want to try to raise them as good as possible. And I think everything else takes care of itself. So, like, you mentioned something about, like, me trying to get them to place them in, like, a good home or something like that. I don't care about that as much anymore. Not that I don't care if they end up in a good home. My current philosophy is if the calf is good, a good home will find them. If they don't, then they must just need to be better. Because I don't believe there's any secrets out there anymore. I mean, if you go on your. I don't have Snapchat, but if you go on your. You have Snapchat?

Ferris Simon (32:01)

Yes, sir. Yeah.

Kevin Mock (32:02)

Okay. You open up Snapchat. How many videos of calves are probably on your storyline right now? A lot.

Ferris Simon (32:08)

And your. Your Snapchat. Just off topic, I saw a Snapchat on your story and it said something about, if you've got bad comments, leave them to yourself or I'm blocking you.

Kevin Mock (32:19)

So. So context here. I. I don't run our Snapchat account. My wife does. I gave up Snapchat 3 Octobers ago because I felt like I was wasting too much time focusing on what other people were doing and not what I was doing. So I gave it up. And it might have been September, which shows you how serious I was. Because we were in prime selling season. I deleted it. So for those of you that have snapped me in the last three years, I'm not ignoring you. I just don't have Snapchat. But my wife started one for the company. And to give context to what that was is, you know, our Snapchat. As you're aware, there's a blend of, like, ranching activities. And then I cook a lot, so she'll put, like, whatever I make for dinner on there a lot of times.

Ferris Simon (33:01)

Paris is a professional Cook so well.

Kevin Mock (33:05)

If professional would indicate that I get paid to do it, which I don't. So I've just. I don't know what you would call it anyway, I guess somebody and I don't know who it was. It's not important. It wasn't anyone I knew. Somebody slid up on the snap and not only talked trash on the meal, which I was pretty proud of the meal, it was a crab pasta that I made the stock from scratch with the crab shells. Not only did they talk trash on the meal, but then went to like talk trash on the cattle that we raise, which that's. No, no for my wife, that really rubbed her the wrong way. So yeah, that's what that was all about. That's only happened one time thus far. So. But going back to the no secrets, I really think though, because everyone has a cell phone, everyone has videos. Everyone, even if you're having a bit off, you're posting these videos on Steer Better SC online sales or one of these other platforms. I really believe if they are good people will find them. They will figure out where they are and they'll find them. So it's kind of like let God do his work and just focus on what you can control. Or hopefully control, which is try to make them good.

Ferris Simon (34:31)

Quote that I was always told by the 1k figgy, control what you can control. Leave the rest of the one up above.

Kevin Mock (34:38)

That's right.

Ferris Simon (34:39)

So let's hop on the topic of. Obviously you have your own podcast called Shoe side. It's become extremely successful. What I would like to know is what started Shootside, why did you start it and what makes it successful in its own right.

Kevin Mock (34:59)

So I originally started it in an effort to share and document information that I had about coming up in this business that I felt could be useful to other people. Now I started it, dude, it was like six or seven years ago, I think so. Back at that time. Yeah, a long time ago. Back at that time there was really only two of them. There was stock talk which launched maybe a few months before Shootside did. And then there was Shootside and then there was a few other ones that kind of came, came along. We went two or three seasons and the whole. The whole premise was to interview, not unlike what you're doing, interview notable people in the business and try to get them to share information that would be beneficial and add value to the audience so that they could go and implement those things in the program and their own individual programs. I did go on hiatus for three years. It's Been three years that I took off and I stopped doing it. We actually just relaunched yesterday, which seems like people are happy about it. And the current iteration is a little bit different than it was. I'm not doing near as many interviews as you know, because you're in the thick of it. Doing these interviews is a lot of work. And if anyone, if you haven't shared that with your audience, I'm going to tell your audience because they should be extremely grateful for the amount of time and effort that I know you're putting in to do this. Between putting the questions together, scheduling the guests, figuring out who the guests are going to be, what are we talking about, when can we do it? Then you got all the editing, you got all the other stuff, the post production, the social media management, all that stuff takes a considerable amount of time. And because you're interviewing notable people, and I'm not saying that because I'm on here, you've definitely reached the bottom of the barrel with me. But I've seen some of the people that you've had on, they're really, really cool people to have. You know, their schedules are busy too, and it's very challenging to execute what you're doing. And the audience, if they're not already grateful for it, should be grateful for it. That burned. That part of it burned me out. So the current edition of this is just me sharing what I know about whatever we're doing and whatever is going on at the ranch at that time. It could be a multitude of things. For example, yesterday I recorded. I record. Most of them are solo stuff, so I recorded one about just what our ET conception rates. And I named off three or four or five things that I thought we did different in the last year or two that helped improve that conception rate and how you could implement them in your own program if you choose to. And we're at the front end of it, so I don't know. It seems like it's being well received. We will see. I don't know. I was a little nervous about releasing this kind of stuff because it's completely different than what the original concept was. But I think, and this is probably why you're successful with your platform too, is if you are willing to be honest and direct with your audience and truly provide them value. Right? Like if you're really. And maybe this goes back into like this mentorship question and premise that you asked earlier of, like, if you're willing to truly give and not. And do it with joy and not expect anything. People appreciate that and like that. And for. From what I can tell from you. And I know for me, like, there's not really a big alternate. You know, there's not like this ulterior motive, just trying to document stuff. And I kind of like talking about it. So it's not a conversation I wouldn't have with a buddy of like, hey, I put out these tubs, and I think it helped me. You know what I mean? I put this protein tub out and I thought it bumped our rates. You know, that's kind of. That's kind of really. It a simple.

Augustus Sexton (39:28)

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Ferris Simon (39:51)

I mean, even with that said, I mean, the whole reason I started was because I wanted to learn as much as I could and consume as much knowledge as I could, just because of the fact that there's so much to know and we learn every day. But I feel like maybe we needed a platform where we needed to bring in the big dogs and ask them those questions to build up success for other people, including myself and my co hosts and everyone involved. But one question with that is it's kind of off topic, but it's a topic that I think me and you need to talk about.

Kevin Mock (40:30)

Okay.

Ferris Simon (40:32)

Is what's your opinion on show politics and how can we fix it? It is a topic that has become extremely talked about in small circles, and I feel like maybe you will bring a good discussion to the table with it. The last episode was Braden House, and he went into depth about it as well. But I'd also like to know your opinion about it being from California, especially with all the county fairs that are in the state.

Kevin Mock (41:07)

Yeah. I think it obviously exists. Right. Like, we're lying. We're lying if we say it doesn't exist. We know there. There's an element of politics. I do think, though, there is a. A higher perception of politics than probably what actually occurs. Right. And I think it's actually improved from what it was when I was a kid. And the reason why is the same reason that it's easier to find a good show steer is because what happens at every major show after a champion gets picked, it goes up on the pulse, it goes up on social media, it goes up on Snapchat. The one that's third can go up there. Too, you know what I'm saying? And I, I think like the whole blatant, like, holy smokes, that was a complete donkey and he beat a really good one. Politics is probably over. You know, there's enough guys out there candidly that claim that they got stroke and well, you know, if you've ever met those types of people that tell you they're going to win every show and I don't know if they win any more than the next guy. I think it's a perception issue. And let me, I'll give you an example because I thought about this a little bit here recently too and there's things that like you asked, how do we, how do we make it better? I almost think it's almost. How do we make the perception of it better? When an exhibitor or a family sees a judge in a show ring on their phone in between classes, I don't know what they're, they might be texting their wife or husband or whatever, partner, ranch hand, whatever. I love you. Hey, don't forget they treat that cow with foot rot. I mean, I don't know what they're texting, but it looks terrible. I'm just gonna say in case anyone didn't know, it looks pretty bad when they're out there in the classes like coming in. And I think naturally people will think that there's something going on there. It probably isn't. Who knows? I don't know. We can't. I'm not going to pull their phone records. But I'm saying that it, those types of things look bad, right? The way different things get handled like that. So, you know, if you just kept your phone in your pocket or leave it at the announcer stand, I think that would help a lot of this perception. With politics again, it happens. I don't think it's as bad as what people make it to be. And I think sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes it can be an emotional cop out on why you got beat. Like if you don't zoom out. So let me give you an example. Like this is a hypothetical example. These calves cost a lot of money. Really. Any of this show stop livestock costs a tremendous amount of money. A most these kids have done and families have done a wild amount of work, a crazy amount of work getting them teed up, ready for the show. You got a lot riding on it, both emotionally, sweat equity and real equity into this deal. And it's the most heart wrenching thing ever to get beat at a show where you think you can win it's tough because those special ones don't come around that often. However. And even if you don't have the one, however, I think sometimes it's e. We all know somebody in this business. I mean, I think like 90. I'm out here in California, like 90% of the shows that I. I go to with a calf. Like, I probably know the judge, at least in like a. If I saw him not in the show ring, I would say hi to him. Right. I'm not saying we're friends. I'm not saying we have a their phone number, but like, we would probably say hi and maybe have a little conversation. That could be perceived as politics by anybody. Right? It's not. Right, but it could be. What I'm saying is sometimes I think when we claim all I was politics, like, we can also zoom out and just say, like, was that other calf high quality? Well, presented this, that and the other. Did we do everything we could have? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. That other calf looked pretty good too. And just chalk it up to that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I genuinely don't believe it's as bad as is what some people think it is. It's there. I just don't. I don't think it's an epidemic.

Ferris Simon (46:03)

Well, talking about just the perspective of things. Keep it simple. It's the judge's opinion and that's all that matters. He's the judge. Let him pick his favorite regardless if it's the best one or not at political or not. It's not up to the people to make that decision for the judge.

Kevin Mock (46:23)

On another note, on these bigger shows, and I love like the Denver panel, I love that where they post the scores, like those types of transparency things. I love. I wish they did that at every northern major. Obviously the Texas majors are way too big and would take. It would take two weeks to get one of those sorted in that fashion. I love that kind of transparency. Anything that they could do to have, excuse me, more transparency, I think, I think would be beneficial to quote, unquote, you know, eradicating it or limiting it. Any sorts of panels. I think those things are all helpful. I just, again, I don't know. I mean, here's an example of how I think. Another example. I just thought about this one at Fort Worth. They have like that big tarp or whatever when they come in the gate, right? If you think about the amount of planning that would have to go in to wire one in at one that deal, right? Because there's no tail in the men, the kids out there on island. I don't know, maybe we do all that. Who knows?

Ferris Simon (47:39)

Well, with all that said, I love your perspective on it. I respect your opinion on it, not only because you're a face of the industry, but also because you're extremely knowledgeable in what you do. So I can ask my next question.

Kevin Mock (47:52)

Real quick though, is that if. Have you asked that question to other people?

Ferris Simon (47:58)

Not necessarily.

Kevin Mock (48:00)

I just curious. I just wanted to see what everyone else said.

Ferris Simon (48:04)

I've asked Braden and we all know Braden is very opinionated and that's why I like him on.

Kevin Mock (48:10)

Yeah.

Ferris Simon (48:10)

Or had him on. Yeah. And he gave it straight, blunt and forward, and I liked that. And it. And it brought in a lot of attention and I feel like a lot of people brought or found value in it. But because you're in the region that you are, I felt like maybe it was pretty prominent with all the county fairs around there because, like, as Brandon said, I mean, politics are going to be more in your county fairs than they are major shows. And that's just common in his perspective. And it's not that I disagree, but I wanted your opinion on it as well. But I guess the next question that I'd have for you, Ferris, is what it to kind of wrap it up, what is one of your favorite quotes or Bible verse that gets you going or gives you inspiration or motivation?

Kevin Mock (48:57)

That's a good one. Lately, I think maybe the most. And I don't know because it's like a really the whole chapter or whatever. But First Peter 5, where it talks about being a shepherd, right? Being a shepherd for your flock, defending your flock. That's been speaking to me lately.

Ferris Simon (49:22)

Right?

Kevin Mock (49:23)

Yes, sir, that would probably be my go to that one. And Romans 12 would probably be my go to's for the last 6 to 12 months. Probably 12 months I've been hitting those ones up. What about you, man?

Ferris Simon (49:44)

It's on my belt and it's been on my belt since I was 13 years old. Proverbs 3:5 through 6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him. He will lead your path straight. I've gone by that since the day I was introduced to it. Theoretically, since I was born, it's been my life verse. But it's kind of got me through some of the hard times. And like, for example, the majority of us with the live audience behind me have just gone through hell week here at Blinn College. And that was some of the hardest moments and times that I think a majority of us have ever been through.

Kevin Mock (50:22)

What does hell week entail?

Ferris Simon (50:23)

Oh, 25 hour days and very little sleep. I think out of 108 hours that we judged, we got about 35 hours of sleep just nonstop trying to improve our evaluation of livestock, building confidence in the room and accuracy in the room. And with all that said, it's just finding your voice, your confidence, your flow and all that entails inside the reasons room, but also being able to within the four animals that you evaluate. Going through the priorities of what separates each one and why you place them this way you do just all accuracy and I guess in a way weaning out the week and who's there legit legitimately and who can take the pressure.

Kevin Mock (51:18)

Who's the coach there now?

Ferris Simon (51:20)

Quest Newberry and Adrian Austin. And they do a phenomenal job. Not only have I been able to take my judging skills to a whole nother level while here before I go on, I didn't necessarily have a coach growing up or been able to have a, an accurate judging practice throughout high school or a consistent one at that. So I had to reach out to multiple people to try to be better. And I feel like having all these mixed opinions kind of brainwashed me in a way trying to incorporate all of them. And so being to go or being able to go into a college with a coach and a consistent practice and a consistent list of reasoning of why we do the things we do has changed my mindset completely. And I don't know, just being able to improve in ways that I didn't think I could have and I didn't realize this, but you know, we're in before this high school judging. There is such a big difference between 4h judging in the reasons room and the collegiate judging level. And I don't think a lot of people realize that. Like it is so crazy how different it is between your 4H layout and your collegiate layout and how accurate you have to go into these reasons rooms on top of going into depth of why you say the way the way you say and why you think the way you think and why you place the way you place. You know what I mean? So it's just one of those deals. Like hell week is super beneficial to a lot of people, but it's only for the people who are strong willed and strong minded, if you know what I mean.

Kevin Mock (53:05)

Yeah, it sounds like they're sorting out. Let me ask you this, this is a question I get sometimes and I don't know how to answer it. So maybe you would know. I get questions sometimes from kids that are buying calves that are younger, you know, like in high school still, that maybe don't have someone around them to help them, Whether it's good advice or bad advice, but they're wanting to learn how to read livestock better. I mean, what do you have any thoughts there on. On where to point folks like that on how to be better? I mean, online resources or. Or just ways to learn what they are and aren't supposed to look like because it's a vast sea out there.

Ferris Simon (53:46)

Yeah. What I did and what helped me the most in high school was go to these judging camps that are offered to you, but really, truly finding those schools that have the most success, and take those three to four days that you can and soak up as much as you can. Go through three stenos, Go with two hours of sleep every night because you want to stay up and talk more sets than everyone else because you want to be better. Those camps are what made me realize the big things in high school. But on top of that, having a close relationship with those coaches, for instance, I can easily say that me and skyler scott and get along very well, and we have a lot of time where I've called him and text him and talked about questions that I've had. But on top of that, being able to have a relationship with quest newberry. Going out of my junior year at state 4H contest, he had saw me on the sidewalk, and we had known each other previously Because I went to a camp my sophomore year, he'd reached out to me and told me, hey, I want you to come back to camp, but also I want you to set up a tour to come potentially be a teammate. And that just kind of hit me hard. Like, building these relationships with the people who are in the actual collegiate industry makes a difference. But on top of that, if you have a mentor that is in the judging realm and being able to have a very good relationship with them, like, for me, colton thigpen was mine, and he judges a lot of shows here in texas. But he's incredibly good with the way he uses his words and being able to listen to him a few times and go to some prospect shows with him and judge them, that changed my mindset as well. So if you have those opportunities, take them as well. But just being able to take in as much as you can is probably my biggest thing. But find the people that are having success and don't be scared to reach out to them because they're more than generous to give you their knowledge and share their success and how they got there.

Kevin Mock (55:53)

Very, very well spoken question. Another question, though. If you. If you and Skyler are homies, does that mean are you going to announce you're going to Texas Tech on this pod or.

Ferris Simon (56:03)

If I announced I went to Texas Tech on the spot, I think Brent Cromwell would come and kill me and so would Colton. It's happened once, and it was a very brief but concise discussion.

Kevin Mock (56:19)

Hey, I'll put it on record here. We should be more concerned about what Colton thinks and less about what thinks.

Ferris Simon (56:26)

Okay. So from the live audience, we have a question from Mr. Lane Gilbo. He's been listening this entire episode, and so he wants to ask you a question real quick.

Kevin Mock (56:36)

Sure.

Luke Domain (56:38)

So we had another topic about young guys getting into the industry, especially clipping and fitting. I just want to ask on how important you think it is for some of the older school guys to accept these younger guys coming into their program and not only teach them the tried and true ways, but also adapt them into the newer ways and trends within the industry.

Kevin Mock (57:00)

I think it's. It's paramount. Right. I mean, here's the thing that none of us want to admit. I think none of us want to admit is that clipping and fitting is a young man's game. Right. It's. It's taxing on the body. I don't like to get down and throw glue at legs near as much as I did when I was 17, 16, 18, 22, whatever. It hurts. I'm getting old, slow. And I think that for this industry to continue to thrive, you gotta have that transfer of knowledge. And that goes for all different things, whether it's clipping and fitting, like the question that you asked, or if it's how to raise them, how to be a better steward of the land, better steward of the livestock. Without that knowledge transfer, you know, it's just stagnant, I think. And it. That. That comes with an abundance mindset, too. I think sometimes in the livestock industry, we want to be, like, really secretive, you know, and, like, not tell, like, that's my secret sauce or whatever. I mean, in all reality, I. I don't know that there's that many true, quote, unquote secrets out there. And I think there's enough to go around. So that's a long way to answer your question. I think it's super important that we share, you know, those that have been around, share. And I think most. Most of them do.

Ferris Simon (58:24)

Right. Well. And I mean, but we just like all three of us in my dorm room, been discussing about your episode, like all hyped up. Oh, we're having Ferris Simon on. You're talking about you being at the bottom of the barrel. This is Ferris Simon, y'all. He is elite at what he does. Whether regard regarding whether he's in Texas or California or the Midwest. It's Ferris Simon.

Kevin Mock (58:43)

So you guys are making me blush, but thank you. Thank you.

Weston Hendricks (58:48)

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Weston Hendricks (59:17)

For any questions that you may have, contact the office at 325-235-2855 or check out their website expresslives.genomics.com to ask one last question.

Kevin Mock (59:29)

Sure.

Ferris Simon (59:29)

Before we have any more. Maybe we do. Do we have any more questions for Mr. Ferris? He said in a sec.

Kevin Mock (59:36)

Okay.

Ferris Simon (59:37)

I'd like to know, Ferris, what empowers you as a person, caretaker, operator, customer, to be better than who you were before?

Kevin Mock (59:49)

I don't. I mean, I think it's just a desire to want to be better, Right. To try to be the best version of yourself. I don't know. That's a hard question to answer, I guess. Man, you coming out left field with some of these. Not left field. But I would say if you're not going to work on yourself and try to be better, like, what are you doing? You know, I guess that's the best way for me to answer it. I don't know what else I would be doing. If you're not trying to improve your program or improve yourself, you know, whether that's a livestock operator, a husband, a father, a member of the community, I think we should always just push ourselves to be better and try to be optimal if we can, you know, in all those different facets.

Ferris Simon (60:42)

Yes, sir. Well, we do have another question and I hope you don't mind.

Kevin Mock (60:47)

No, keep them coming.

Ferris Simon (60:48)

Mr. Luke Domain is another gentleman in the live audience. I'm just going to attack on real quick. We've never had a live audience on Empower you. There's always a time for firsts. But does have a question asked?

Kevin Mock (61:02)

The question, did you show a Calf that come for me one time.

Luke Domain (61:05)

I sure did. Yes sir.

Kevin Mock (61:07)

It was like reserved at the Louisiana State Fair, right?

Luke Domain (61:09)

Yes, sir. He was reserved. And then I got another one. I had a. A black baldy calf had showed. Ended up he was third our state fair and then brought him to Louisville and he was third in class over there. So I was extremely pumped with that one.

Kevin Mock (61:21)

Yeah, like Lance help you on those ones a little bit or not? Sure, absolutely.

Luke Domain (61:26)

He's definitely been a huge person in my life. We hey, we work at his house back in Louisiana. So he's out of huge. Huge impact on me.

Kevin Mock (61:33)

Didn't Colton beat you though? He judged. Didn't the year yet him at. At Louisiana.

Ferris Simon (61:39)

Right.

Kevin Mock (61:39)

And he was reserved.

Luke Domain (61:40)

Sure did.

Kevin Mock (61:41)

Yep. Yeah. Dang it.

Ferris Simon (61:42)

He.

Kevin Mock (61:42)

He flipped that pair. I didn't even see the other one. We just know he got that one wrong.

Luke Domain (61:48)

Oh yeah. But so just like also being from Louisiana and having that extreme heat, just not having the same environment and feed rations compared to like a lot of states in the Midwest just aren't. We aren't just able to get them full and fresh enough or even hairy enough, honestly, even with a cooler and fans and washing, it just. It's not the same. So just kind of wondering like, what are some ways to keep the kids motivated and keep them trying and keeping that work ethic just to do their best with the limited resources.

Kevin Mock (62:14)

Are you talking like when it's time to go up north and compete against the guys with the cold weather and whatnot?

Luke Domain (62:21)

Yes, sir. Like to keep the mentality of being able to work hard and trying to get there, even knowing it's way tougher for us compared to a lot of other people from up north in the Midwest and stuff.

Kevin Mock (62:30)

Yeah, that is tough. We fight that a little bit out here just mostly because of our proximity to the Midwest and we have a crappy weather pattern now. I would probably say our weather's probably better than it is in Louisiana because we don't have humidity. I do think your guys food's quite a bit better than ours is out here, even though we do have some really high quality culinary outlets. But I did go to Louisiana one time and I thought your guys food was amazing down there. So I would say the best thing, especially we can go fight them off up north is you got to just pick your spots. And that spot for you guys is probably, you know, Denver maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's a breed heifer or something like that. But I have seen some Louisianans come up to Denver and while they may not be as hairy as the northern cattle. They did not look out of place. And I don't know, sometimes I think about this more and more. Sometimes as I get older, it's like maybe, maybe the. There's a reason that the good Lord is making you go through that trial and tribulation down there in Louisiana trying to figure out how to get one hairy. And you probably just don't know why that is yet. And it's hard to understand in the moment when you're out there brushing and it's 95 degrees, it's humid, and you're probably seeing a Snapchat from someone up north and it's cold and they got the hair dripping off of them and they're not trying or not trying as hard. Shouldn't say no one's not trying. But maybe that there's probably a reason for that and you just don't know it yet. So stick to the grind and you'll never, ever regret giving it your all, you know, even if you show up, like if you go to Louisville or Kansas City and you only have half as much hair. But if you look back at the time and you said, I left everything on the field and I did everything I could, I don't think you'll regret that. And I know that's a moral victory to me. That still means something, you know, you'll just have. Just knowing that you did everything you could I think means something.

Luke Domain (64:44)

I completely agree. I agree with you on that one.

Kevin Mock (64:47)

So.

Ferris Simon (64:48)

All right. Well, that come from the live audience of the Bloon Park Apartments here in Brynham, Texas. First time for everything.

Kevin Mock (64:58)

Yeah.

Ferris Simon (64:58)

So to wrap up this episode, not only do we do verses, but it's something that just means it to me. And being able to share, you know, the gospel and what the Lord provides for us to be able to have the right mentality. But today's verse comes from Matthew 6:33, and it says, but to seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. And that really kind of goes along with what Luke has said and you have said in Yalls discussion of just having the right morals and mentality to keep pushing and to have the right mindset. And if you do the things right in his way, in his mind, the good things will come to you when it's his time.

Kevin Mock (65:37)

Love it.

Ferris Simon (65:39)

Well, Ferris, we do appreciate you coming on the pod. We know that you're a very busy individual and we know we had to push back the schedule a little bit because you're still taking care of the good calves and the cows out in the back pasture. So I do appreciate you coming on and taking your time and just keep grinding, dude. You're doing an awesome job and I cannot wait for shootside to kick back up. Not only did it inspire me to start my podcast, but Ferris does a phenomenal job when it comes to sharing knowledge and giving great information to improve your herd. So.

Kevin Mock (66:13)

Well, I appreciate the kind words and you should be proud of what you built here. Your reputation precedes you and I really feel honored that you asked me to come on.

Ferris Simon (66:24)

Yes, sir, of course. Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is empowering you with Ferris Simon. Thank you for tuning in.

Weston Hendricks (66:31)

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Augustus Sexton (66:53)

Make sure that you follow empower you on Facebook and Instagram so that you can stay up to date on new episodes that are coming out. Merch drops and Merch Giveaways. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate all the support.