Once Is Luck, Twice Is Skill... The Post Game Sort Ft. Mark Hoge

Summary

EmpowerU Podcast Summary: "Once Is Luck, Twice Is Skill... The Post Game Sort Ft. Mark Hoge"

Introduction

In the February 22, 2025 episode of EmpowerU, hosts Weston Hendrix, Augustus Sexton, and Quinn Hartley engage in an in-depth post-game interview with Dr. Mark Hogue, a renowned livestock evaluator. This episode delves into Dr. Hogue’s experiences and insights from the Fort Worth Stock Show, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and triumphs involved in high-stakes livestock judging.

Pre-Show Feelings and Preparation

Dr. Hogue begins by reflecting on his emotional state before entering the Fort Worth Stock Show arena. Having judged the competition twice, he acknowledges the transition from initial nervousness to seasoned confidence.

Dr. Mark Hogue [01:16]: "The first year, I was very nervous and unsure if I could do it. But this year, inspired by positive feedback, I felt prepared to demonstrate that my initial success was not a fluke."

He emphasizes the mantra, “Once is luck, twice is skill,” highlighting how his second experience solidified his judging prowess amidst varying environmental factors like increased heat.

Judging the Angus Breed

The discussion shifts to Dr. Hogue’s approach to judging the Angus breed, where he details his strategies for evaluating cattle quality and consistency.

Dr. Mark Hogue [04:06]: "I wear my echoes this year to ensure every step I take in the Angus ring is purposeful. Last year, I walked 30,000 steps in just Class 1 Angus, and this year, the top contenders immediately gave me confidence."

He explains his method of categorizing based on quality breaks, focusing on the top 40% and further refining selections to maintain high standards.

Herefords and Shorthorns: Balancing Bulk and Athleticism

Dr. Hogue shares his observations on Herefords and Shorthorns, praising the muscularity and handling of Herefords while also noting the athleticism required in Shorthorn steers.

Dr. Mark Hogue [14:49]: "The Herefords were well-fed and athletic, maintaining the right balance of muscle and shape without becoming overfat. Similarly, the Shorthorns displayed exceptional front leg power and body shape, making them memorable."

He discusses the depth of competition within these breeds, highlighting the difficulty in distinguishing top contenders due to the high quality of entries.

Challenges with Disqualifications and Emotional Toll

A poignant moment arises when Dr. Hogue recounts the disqualification of a champion steer, an experience that deeply affected him emotionally.

Dr. Mark Hogue [37:47]: "Seeing a steer that I admired so much being disqualified was like having a corner piece removed from my puzzle. It was heartbreaking and a significant mental hurdle to overcome."

He underscores the importance of maintaining focus and not allowing setbacks to diminish his judging confidence.

American and European Crosses: Navigating Breed Characteristics

The conversation progresses to the complexities of judging American and European cross breeds. Dr. Hogue elaborates on his strategy to assess quality while respecting breed standards and industry trends.

Dr. Mark Hogue [21:34]: "In the American crosses, I focus on minimizing Brahmin influence while maintaining quality. It’s crucial to respect industry weight parameters and ensure the cattle align with current market trends."

He discusses the subjective nature of breed influences and the necessity of adapting his judging criteria to accommodate diverse cattle characteristics.

Handling Pressure and Maintaining Integrity

Throughout the episode, Dr. Hogue emphasizes the significance of passion and integrity in his role as a judge. He reflects on advice from his father, advocating for wholehearted dedication to each show without the pressure of future opportunities.

Dr. Mark Hogue [75:18]: "It takes passion and integrity to function at a high level. When you judge with these principles, good fortune follows."

This philosophy underpins his ability to navigate the emotional and technical demands of livestock judging effectively.

Grand Drive and Final Reflections

As the session nears its conclusion, Dr. Hogue shares his experiences during the Grand Drive, recounting memorable moments and the emotional weight of final decisions.

Dr. Mark Hogue [83:25]: "Grand Drive was one of the most memorable experiences of my two-year tenure. Recognizing the efforts of the syndicate and handling emotional moments with grace was pivotal."

He acknowledges the collective effort behind successful shows and the lessons learned from handling high-pressure situations.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Dr. Hogue offering invaluable advice to upcoming judges and livestock enthusiasts. He reiterates the importance of passion and integrity, encouraging others to stay true to themselves and their craft.

Dr. Mark Hogue [87:38]: "Keep your passion and integrity as your barometer. Make decisions true to yourself, and success will follow."

The hosts commend Dr. Hogue for his candidness and expertise, highlighting the episode as a powerful resource for anyone involved in livestock judging or the livestock industry at large.

Key Takeaways

• Experience Builds Skill: Transitioning from initial nervousness to confident expertise through repeated exposure and positive reinforcement.
• Strategic Judging: Employing specific criteria and methods to evaluate cattle quality across different breeds.
• Emotional Resilience: Maintaining focus and confidence despite setbacks and disqualifications.
• Integrity and Passion: Upholding personal principles to achieve sustained success and fulfillment in judging roles.
• Industry Awareness: Adapting to industry trends and breed standards to ensure relevant and fair evaluations.

This comprehensive interview with Dr. Mark Hogue offers a rare glimpse into the nuanced world of livestock judging, emphasizing the blend of technical skill, emotional intelligence, and unwavering integrity required to excel in the field.

Transcript

[Host]

Oh, okay. We're live.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Whoa.

[Host]

Y'all seriously thought that we were gonna do a pre game of the most legendary competitive show in the nation and not do a postgame? Well, I'm here to tell you, this is the most official post game interview that the empower your podcast could possibly bring to you. I am forever thrilled to have this opportunity to have Dr. Mark Hogue on twice now, but to be able to go over this show in its entire with him and my team is just phenomenal. And Mr. Hogue needs no introduction. He's been on, and because of y'all, he is now the most listened episode on the platform. I could not be happier with how that performed and how well y'all reacted to it and all the content that was shared on social media. Y'all have asked for him to come back to do a post game. I'm bringing it. And it's here. He's here. He needs no introduction. We're gonna just roll into it. We're gonna talk about the Fort Worth. So with that said, I'd like you to start out just talking about how you felt before going in, what your thoughts were, how you were feeling, and we'll start rolling from there.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Well, thank you for the introduction and again, thank you for the invitation back for a post game interview. We'll start with how did I feel the very first year, the first year that I was judging Fort Worth, I left the hotel, I walked across the street, I hit the Fort Worth stock show grounds. I got very nervous and called dad again. I'm like, man, I'm not sure I can do this. He goes, oh, you just go do it. Be yourself. Be true to yourself and your family, and you'll be fine. This year. I walked across the street and I reflected to all the positive comments that I had gotten from last year's show at Fort Worth. Not about, oh, man, the visionary judge got every class right, but it was more how I approached the classes and the positivity and the energy. And then all of a sudden, I walked across the street this year, and it struck me that in a two year stint, if the first time something goes, well, once is luck, twice is skill. And so all of a sudden, it really settled in as I walked across the street, hey, I probably have to tune out of my mind what happened last year, because it's a different population of cattle, it's a different year, different. Different environmental factors. It was even hotter this year than it was last year, you know, and so there'll be a different set of challenges to negotiate through. But when the dust settles at the end of day two, will I be able to drive back to the state of Illinois knowing that once his luck, twice his skill. And so that's probably the thing that resonated as I started. I wanted to make sure that last year I tried to prove myself as a multi species evaluator once again. And I wanted to make sure that this year that I worked as hard or harder to make sure that people realized that it wasn't just a fluke the first time. So that was my intention and obviously have a great time. It is the, it is the pinnacle of everything as livestock evaluators that we strive for. And so that was exciting.

[Host]

Yes, sir, most definitely. And so where I kind of want to start with is, I mean, obviously you were like, all right, we're back, I'm anxious, not anxious, I don't know. And you're walking in there. What it, I mean, we obviously talked about what you were expecting. Obviously quality, obviously the most competitive show stock in the country. But then we start at 8am Thursday morning and you're in the Angus. Let's walk through the Angus real quick. And what were you feeling start first class?

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Well, it always starts with the national anthem because that's a point of clarity that I listen to and I clear my mind. And it's time to get everything, every issue at home, at the farm, what's going on, what classes, what students need. When you judge a livestock show, that all that has to flush. Because from 8am till the time I'm done, I can do nothing about any of that. So I need to laser focus on the duty at hand. I did wear different shoes last year. I wore boots. This year, I wore my echoes. Last year, the first day my wife said I on my phone, I had over 32,000, 33,000 steps. So I knew this year I wasn't going to try to intentionally conserve, conserve steps. But at the same token, I needed to make if I was going to go to from one end of the class to the other, it better have an intention, it better have a purpose. First class. Last year in the Angus, I think I walked 30,000 steps just in Class 1 Angus. Because they're so nervous. Okay, I was still very nervous, but I knew how things went would work in the ring. And I worked with the gentlemen in the green jackets and the beef superintendents. Last year we knew each other and so that was a very, very comfortable feel. I reflected briefly on last year's breed champions. I was pumped up the Steers start coming around the blue tarp, and I don't care what breed they were, they better have the right shape, the right look, the right athleticism and the right build. And so you start to pull. I never let numbers in the middle worry me. I might pull five in a row. I might go 15 and not pull one. But let's say there was 15 in the middle of the ring in the last 10 steers I thought were quality. I would pull all 10 without hesitation. And it was always kind of fun for me to turn around to the middle and see how close, you know, to 10 was. I. I was never very close, but that just speaks for the volume and the depth of the show. As we went through the Angus breed, and I. And this is the population of cattle I would say, that were at Fort Worth this year, the top six or seven in every single class. I got instantly the warm and fuzzies. I like where I'm at. There was traditionally a break about six or seven. The elite ones were top six for me. Then the next challenge was six or seventh through the 14th steer. Okay, so basically what I did in these classes, as I reflected back, I took the first pole and cut them in half. You know, basically, you know, kept the top 40% of the population. And that's where the natural break in quality was. Okay. Not saying the cattle are on the outside of the ring. Didn't have pieces that were good. Big muscle, not sound enough. Okay, really sound and pretty little flat. Those extremes stayed against the rail. I would say, on average, the upper 40% was my first poll. Then I took that first pole and broke it in half again. It was really interesting in terms of population genetics, how to me, that quality break, it basically came in percentages of 50%. So let's add 15 pulled in the middle of the ring. Those top seven were salty. But what was really challenging is trying to place eight through 13. And that was the same challenge as last year was this year, my champion Angus steer came in and I thought, okay, this guy. I never say wins for fun because that would be discrediting the reserve Angus or the rest of the Angus breed. But I thought those Angus cattle came in athletic. I thought their frame size was where I wanted them. I thought their body shape was right. I thought their handle was high cut ability. And I thought that in terms of those extra gorilla power and feature, the champion Angus hit me. Well, once you get through the first breed, as I talked on the show, that's the first piece of the puzzle. Now it's My job to put the rest of the pieces of the puzzle over the next two days together to emulate that style of cattle that I started with in a very high quality Angus champion.

[Host]

Yes, sir. I was watching the Angus drive, but I reflected back to the first class. You had said the first and second you'll always remember. Is that correct?

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah. What was that? What was so special about those two?

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Well, it. This is. The judges can approach it so many different ways. And I was really thinking about this this evening before I got online here. I just judged the Iowa Beef Expo Market cattle show, and I judged up San Angelo Barris. Okay, well, if you have disgruntled people that, oh, I didn't like this one, or I didn't. Didn't like that one, I really focus on type and kind. And what's interesting to me is when the dust settles, if something is memorable to me as an animal or a creature, they will be uniquely different. Okay? They will be distinctively different. Now, it may be a captivating look of essence that I'm like, wow. Or it may be an extra wide, powerful view that still moves incredibly well. That's. I like things that are hard to do. Okay? And so if I say, in a class, this deer is the most memorable, or I will remember these types of cattle, that means that, hey, they might have had an issue that might bother one of you three a little more than it did me. But where they're good, they're extraordinary. And so I want my champions to be extraordinary. Not nothing wrong with basic. If I had to have a hundred thousand on head and. And 10,000 cows and managing all that, hey, give me good, basic middle of the road kind of stuff. People don't go to the Fort Worth Stock show to be in the middle of the road, you know, and so, excuse me when I say that that first class, and I personally thought that each of the class winners in each of the top three had distinctively interesting views that I would just, you know, that I would remember. Now we'll tell you. I don't. Not saying weight plays a big factor, but I want these cattle big and ready to rumble. That. That class went in heavyweight. That was a good set. But that class went in heavyweight. When that steer comes in, I'm like, oh, yeah, we have our first breed put together. Let's rock and roll.

[Co-Host]

So you just hit on that weight. Doesn't really matter to you. That is one question I wanted to ask you. The Angus was the only breed that you used a middleweight. You never used a lightweight. So kind of how does that play into your mind when you're in the breed drive?

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

No, I want the best. You know what I mean? I want, I want the best cattle that I possibly can get, regardless of weight. But I consider Fort Worth a 12 o'clock end point. Gotta be there. I'll reflect back to last year's show. The D1 champion crossbred at last year's Fort Worth I thought was insane. I asked that young lady three times, what is your calf weigh? And she said 1,000 pounds. I just judged the Iowa Beef Expo Prospect show and my champions were 1050-1100, you know. And so the Fort Worth Stock show is a market cattle show and we need to have those market weight parameters ready to roll. What is the lower end? You know, I'll be honest with you, they could be the, the, the most mystical unicorn walking on water that weighs 1080. And I don't know as I'd want to step out there and use it. A thousand eighty pound steer at Fort Worth when the average market cattle right now going to market, they're trying to push 1600 pound live weights, you know. So I do think it, we need to be respectful of what industry trends are. And so I don't mind the middle. What I like about champions, champions in a breed need to be the right piece of the puzzle. For the puzzle reserves, you could be a little creative in my opinion. You know, use a different weight one, use a different style one and say, hey guys, I know this maybe doesn't fit everybody, but this one is extra special and I want to make them a reserve within a breed. Now let's talk about the herfs, okay? You want to talk about two champions that came out of each one of those breeds. In terms of toned, when I say toned, I want a middle linebacker. An athlete that's been, been working hard and I mean those were toned. Tremendous handling Herefords, it really both pulled and horn. I want to compliment the showman in the feeders and the breeders of those Polden horn Herefords because every breed has their essences. The shore horns that put more muscle in their steers. The Angus steers that were shown to me had more foot and feature than the typical Angus would. The Herefords had the right kind of body shape and the right kind of body cover because it's easy to get a fat Hereford, okay, You study the Herefords, not just the grand and reserves, you study down the line. Those cattle were so well fed, they weren't over fed, they weren't over fat, they Were fresh, great handling, great shaped athletes. And to me, each one that won their respective breed, horned and pulled, they were the ests. Of that top pair, they were the most unique in terms of combining the extra muscle with the extra foot and the extra look. Okay. And so of a great set of cattle, I really was complimentary of the composition. I found this year more cattle deeper into the Herefords and poles that I could grab their loin and roll down their body wall and be like, this is a high cut ability red meat machine, you know, then just step back, let build sort of. What's the first thing going to go in a Hereford chest, you know, chest, flank. If their lines set in them, they were top five.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Co-Host]

And so you, the champion Hereford. I mean, I thought that calf was, you talked about earlier, just an absolute beast, super, super bulky in his build. And then the pulled, I thought that calf was an absolute athlete. And the way that he could get out and flex and use his lower joints was just about unlike anything I'd ever seen before.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

And I'll tell you, there was, there was one Hereford, I want to say I put him forth in a class. Biggest bone sound unique, like, wow, like took a double take. Like, hey, this thing's pretty good. Here's the problem with me as a judge. Things have to make sense. He was lean, he had shape, but he was extra tall. And relative to his linear height and that ring, he looked a little leggy. And so what I like about the Herefords that were winning their classes, their frame school, you talk about one was a little more stoutness. One breed champion was a little more athletic, which I totally agree. But what I liked about that pair of cattle, they were very similar in their frame size relative to their body mass. We had some really jazzy Herefords that, I mean, big hair, beautiful looking profile cattle, but they were a little tall and flat. Okay. And those cattle were high, high quality. But the depth of the Herefords this year was so good, they ended up third or fourth in class, you know, because that frame didn't match the bulk. Just a little, little too. Looked a little more like a wide receiver when I wanted a middle linebacker.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Co-Host]

Understandable.

[Host]

Yes, sir. Yeah. And so you got shorties next. Personally, I love looking at shorties. Never shown one. But I think they're unique creatures. And honestly, they're starting to develop so much differences and starting to accelerate at a high level. But so now we're in the shorties. And what are your mind, what's your mindset now that you're done with.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Well, do what? Started strong, okay? Started strong, man. Those classes fit together. The classes fit together. And all of a sudden this is. And keep in mind, this is the fourth breed of the day. The heat had really started to affect some of these cattle. I mean, I was having cattle with tongues out. There was a couple cattle coughing and that deep kind of cough like the keep was getting to him. But I will tell you, I thought the champion shorthorn was incredibly wide, right in his shoulder design. His body shape was wild, his muscularity was wild. Wasn't the hairiest one we'd seen all day, but I thought to myself, at the end of the shorthorns, that grand and reserve champion shorthorn steer, I told myself, hey, I don't know what else is coming in the. In the American crosses and the exotic and the Europeans, but who knows? 20, 25 might be the year of the shorthorn. Okay? Yeah, I like the Angus and I really like the Hereford pole Hereford, but those shorthorns hit me hard. There was a roan steer that was third or fourth in that power class that I thought was tremendous. I thought last year shorthorns were high end. I thought the depth of this year show within the shorthorn breed was tremendous. Okay. I thought the grand and reserve suited me well. I thought that pair was close. And then I got on both views and I studied for me what I wanted in terms of genuine form and front leg power. I'm like, man, that champion shorthorns hard to. That's hard to replicate. Okay. And so I thought the shorthorns, you know, kind and consistency. I was finding cattle that I was drawn to initially off the pole when they come around the blue carpet or the blue tarp. And then when I got my hands on them and I got to study them closer, I was much more impressed even. Okay, one about place in the top four. I didn't really have to grind on that top four because I was finding livestock that I really liked. Toughest thing for me to do is judge a class where I can't find a class winner. But in every one of them, I'm like, boom. Warm and fuzzies on the class winner. Two's close. Two fits good. Three, four, five, fit. Now let's go earn our keep on six through 10. And I'll tell you the depth of the shorthorns. It got tough. Who was 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. You know, that's where the depth of the show really kicked in.

[Host]

Right? Right.

[Co-Host]

So with that, there was a lot of shorthorns that Were getting classed out. How does that affect your mindset when you maybe see one that you really like and then you go looking for him later and he's not out there.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

You know, of all the things. And I told the folks at San Angelo, we were talking over lunch at a pig. At the pig show I was doing. So there's a lot of shows and things that I would always say yes to and do. I don't know as I would ever. I know I wouldn't ever accept a classification job because I don't study. That I don't study, you know, in the state of Texas, what are the classifications for each breed? Okay. I never have. I'm not going to be concerned about it. It's somebody else's job to do. I know one thing, if I look over my shoulder at every calf, I like to make sure they get through classification. We would still be in Fort Worth judging. So I learned the first year, never look over your shoulder. Because if you do, you've got to mentally be prepared for that calf not being there and watching him walk out. Well, all of a sudden, you don't want the morning to see that happen and lose your mojo. We lost a couple good shorthorns, we lost a couple good Herefords. Okay? But the challenge is, that's not my responsibility. I'm going to focus on the ones in the middle. And if you worry about the one that gets away because you watched him walk out the ring, I think that would destroy your confidence. And the last thing you can do is lose confidence at the Fort Worth Stock Show.

[Host]

Yes, sir. So now at this point, we talked Angus, Herfs, shorties. It's American time. All right, so first class of Americans thought process everything all the way to middle, and then your stud of an American.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

And, well, you know, here's the challenge I keep telling myself. Don't reflect on last year. Don't reflect on last year. Don't reflect on last year. That's like telling yourself not to look at a car wreck and then you drive by the accident and what's the first thing you do is you look okay. So I was trying to get last year out of my mind because don't try to be like last year. Try to be new and fresh and let the cattle sort to you. Well, I would get done with each breed, and I couldn't help it. But as I walked over to get another drink of coffee, I would reflect back to, okay, it's really important to me that when you bring the news media from Dallas, Fort Worth and You bring the syndicate, and you bring all of the powers that be that help put on the Fort Worth stock show. We're talking the big dogs in the ring. I want things to make sense to them. I want things to make sense to the cattle feeders, the cattle breeders, the parents, and all of the exhibitors, okay? That's a pretty wide cross section to pacify. So I think, in my opinion, it's important that every single breed you make, you bring things that make sense and don't bring problems, okay? So to this point, I'm like, dude, this is fitting together smooth as silk. My feet feel good. I'm not gassed. We still got a big day to go through. I had a little bit of a brisket sandwich. I'm feeling my mojo. I'm in. I'm in a good, happy spot. Okay, well, all of a sudden, here comes Americans. And you know what the very first thing I thought to myself was, oh, God, I hope I can do this, because last year, I went out on a limb and used an American for reserve. And what's the worst thing that can happen? These are the lightweight Americans are coming in. I'm like, what if there's none here? What if there's not one here that, you know, I need to. I need to make sure these things look good, so I better work harder than I have all day long. Okay? Like it. That's. That's how you keep focused in a show of that magnitude and size. Because anything that you guys go and do, if it goes well, you ever think to yourself, man, that was awesome. I'm kind of a bad cat. I just smashed that. You know, whatever. It could be mowing the yard, and you're sitting there looking at your yard like, man, I did a good job. Well, if you work at the golf course, if you step back and say, man, I did a good job on that quiz, or I did a good job cooking that meal, and you reflect, if in a show, there's so many more things coming that you'll lose your mojo, okay? And so I had to flush. Hey, I've got my breeds. I've got my pieces of the puzzle. The puzzle is fitting together like a masterpiece. Could not envision a greater masterpiece in my mind. So let's put the next big piece together. And so this is what's interesting about Americans. And, you know, obviously, the San Antonio Steer show is going on. I've. I've loved judging the San Antonio Steer Show. I've loved my time at Houston and these slick shorns. Well, Fort Worth is different because this is American cross. When you go to those other Texas majors, they have an American day.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Ramen simbras, you know, beef bass, I mean, they'll have a host. And so then breed classification can get really, really meticulous. It didn't take me very long to figure out that the higher percentage of American in those cattle, if you got over 50%, we did have a Brahmin, a gray Brahmin in the. In the. Was a high quality steer at Fort Worth. High quality. I complimented the showman. But in that population, you had to be at that, you know, less than a quarter. It's the nature of the beast, you know, it's the texture. It's things of that nature. So when the lights start coming in, if I didn't want 30 in the middle of the ring, which I had about 28, and the. On the lightweight Brahmins or the lightweight Americans, I kept a bunch.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Because I didn't want to discard one that I knew was quality that had maybe a little more sheath and had a couple more wrinkles. Okay. They had a little higher percentage of American in them. I didn't want to discredit them. I wanted to bring the population in from the least Brahmin influence to the most American influence and then navigate within that population of quality. And I think when you do that in a lightweight American cross division at Fort Worth, it then sets the tone for the next classes. And so, yes, sir, the lightweight American crosses, I kept a few more. And I did. I sent cattle of quality to the reclassification committee, and I wanted them to determine, not me. I wanted them to determine what met their standards for the Fort Worth stock show. And then I would sort the population. Okay. One thing I learned a long time ago, you as a judge can't get mad at the classifiers, because if you get mad at the classifiers, you start sending them things that you know aren't right. Yeah. I'm going to prove them wrong. No. And it's no proven anybody's wrong. It's working within the environment that you're dealt. Okay.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Would have loved to have taken 25 degrees environmental temperature out of Fort Worth that week. Now, I'm not saying that we need to have slick shorts and blankets at San Antonio this week. I don't want that cold. But I would love that environment to be at 50 degrees, because I think temperature was probably the biggest factor that affected some cattle at Fort Worth this year.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Anyway, I got through my lights. I was rocking and rolling, rocking and rolling. I get to the bigs, okay, and this is what I loved. And I took a little time on this. And I'm like, man, this one, he's the bees knees. But I don't want to go, because here's the problem. Let's say I go to the microphone and I go biblical. This is the big dog of the big dogs. While all of a sudden people are thinking, God, he used one reserve last year. I didn't know what was coming in the continentals or Europeans. Excuse me, I didn't know what was coming in the European cattle. So I. You gotta watch as a judge because I've been a show dad. When somebody says, hey, this is the best breed. This is the hardest class of the day. And we went, or maybe my kid's second. So I'm like, dude, hardest class a day took the most time. We're gonna be granted reserve. And at the end, hey, you're standing there with your pump sprayer, your, your comb in your hand thinking, well, that got weird. You know, how did we go from the toughest pair that we've seen all day long to getting left out of the top five? You're at a show, you see what I mean? So I get excited and sometimes I did tell you the shorthorn was the baddest cat of a shorthorn I'd seen in a hot minute. And he is a major player and he was. And I'll get to. I'm going to tell you at the end how those cattle come in the final drive. So I don't want to tell you that yet, but this is what I found interesting. I took a little time in the heavyweight Americans. Hey, that gray one, that was reserve American. That's a bad cat. And guess what had a little more American look to him. A little more American hair texture than even the champion. Okay, so I admired. And that little guy, I think is a little boy that had him a hammer of a showman.

[Co-Host]

Hammer Kennedy long kid has a bright future ahead of him.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I tell you what, I love good stock. I love good stock shown by great kids, even better. And that was a good team. And hey, the champion. Exhibitor of the champion Brahmin or American influence. She was lights out too. We had two great showmen. But I have really complimented in my mind and hopefully on the microphone that I thought the reserve American cross steer, it wasn't. The champion was just distantly the best. And the reserve was a afterthought because the reserve, in my opinion, I don't know what percentages they were. But he really had some strong American characteristics that still had immense quality of bone and feature and presence and look and anything. So obviously, I love the Americans. Once again this year, I was pumped up and, you know, at that time, I think I maybe ran to the restroom real quick before we started the, like, divisions of. Of Europeans. And I thought to myself in the restroom, two things. Dude, I'm killing it, Okay? I got to keep my focus. But I am right now feeling like a bad cat. And the only thing I didn't like is that my wife didn't come with me this year, and I wanted to go out to eat with her. And she was in Illinois, and I was in Fort Worth, and I saw. I was a little bummed. I'm like, hey, we got four wicked little sets of four little cross classes. We're going to rock and roll. Drop the hammer, and I will be going, eating at the rodeo goat. Before you know it, at the best hamburger I've ever had in my whole life. It's going to be a good night. So I go back, tell the boys in the green coats, let's rock and roll. Let's have some. Some Continentals. So.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Did you have any other questions on the Americans? I probably jumped a little fast.

[Host]

No, you described them amazing. And I love. I love the way that you said, like, let's get the population of all types and kinds of American. And then once they're classified and once they're back in, that's where we need to start. The deciding factor.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Well, because it like San Antonio in Houston, when you slick everything, the cat, the breeds that. When you slick your cattle, the breeds that change the least are the Americans. Yeah, you know, you just like an American stare and still be like, yep, he looked just like he did yesterday. You select some of these British and Continental cattle, you're like, oh, God, that did not end up the way I thought it would. Okay. But I like how in. In those shows, they break them up. I'm not saying it's better than Fort Worth, but it's different. They break them up in their specific breeds. You don't have to worry about the variants of American influence. It's already classified for. You know, they. They are sim rods, they are ramens. You know, they are beef master. They. They break them up so good that you just sort on quality at Fort Worth with the American influenced or cross. That is a. There's a lot of subjectivity and interpretation to what percentage of American do you want in your cattle? So I bring more into the middle because I told you last year, and I'll tell you this year, and it has not changed. I would tell any judge that ever wants any advice from me going to Fort Worth, which they probably won't, but that double set of white gates that open up when those cattle goes down that tunnel and they leave, it's over. I pulled a girl and the light crosses, she was through the tunnel and I felt bad that the, the, the cattle were making the lap on the outside. And she's about, oh, she's in the first third. And I almost pulled her and I had 25. I'm like, oh, get her back, get her back. And those boys in the green jackets, they ran, got her back in. Because once they go through those double white gates, there is no replay. There is no instant replay. We don't get to go to the camera and we don't get to redo it. It is a one food shot. So.

[Host]

So you've got your four breeds done or five. Five breeds done now or close, whatever. It's the end of the night or end of the first day. You're now with the Europeans. There's four classes. And I think my, the Americans were my favorite part of the show that first day. But I felt most exhilarated, anxious and excited when the Europeans start because the cattle, compared to last year, in my opinion, just looked a whole lot more full, a whole lot more fresh, a whole lot more show ready. I think people had learned from the year past on getting that prepared and just making the cattle look the best that they could, 100% well.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

And I'll be honest with you, the first year, it's such a learning curve. And when they said initially it's a two year contract, I'm like, man, I don't know. A lot of people think one year of me enough is probably enough. What I like about the second year is you learn so much the first year to go back and do it again. That last year we went through D1 of Europeans. And I'm like, man, these are prospects. They were, they were like cattle. These are cattle that we would show at the Illinois Beef Expo to go to the Illinois State Fair in August. And they were such high quality. I'm like, why are these guys not going to take them later? Well, then I realized what the cattle bring in the sale, you know, in the premium sales. Staggering. So this year I thought classes one, two and three fit together good. They were cattle with good shape. They, like you said their body shape was right. I Thought build and athleticism and structure in the first three classes were spot on. We get to class four, and these. These guys, you folks that show the cattle at that upper end, you know, the weight breaks, you know, where you got to be. And so I thought the first three classes fit me real good. Fitting together. Here we go. My feet are. I don't hurt as bad. My body. I think I could walk to the hotel, not crawl the hotel. This year, I'm like, this is. This is really going well. We get to class four, telling you the top eight. There was eight of them little D1 devils in that class. Now, keep in mind, there was about 15. Okay. And I'll. I'll tell you what. We talk about the lights. You know, it got real tough in them first three classes, 6 through 13, 6 through 14. I worked harder on 6 through 14 than I did 1 through 5 in the first three. I thought 15 were good. What's crazy about class four, that natural break was at night. I pulled nine of them things so fast back in and reworked them again. I'm like, hey, this is what I want. These. These cattle right here in this class are going to set the tone for what I had prayed for coming the next day. And so I pulled them in. Looked awesome. I mean, I was pumped. I was pumped, you know, in class four. So, like, I love class one, two, and three, but we're talking class four. If you watched it, it took me about 0.2 seconds to pull eight or nine of them in fast. That's how deep class was.

[Host]

Yeah. So one thing that I'd like to bring up about Class 4 and to talk about is the steer that had won the class and then being disqualified. Yes, it's. It's hard to talk about. It's very frowned upon in a lot of ways, but this was a calf that you said just hit you like a freight train. And then. So I want to know your mindset, what happened when it happened, and just. It sucked. And I think a lot of people just felt that. That sadness when it happened. I mean, it's just. I mean, it's blowing up here in Texas. It's blowing. It's all over the place.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

And here's the problem. And I distinctly remember what I said when I used Gav. He's probably the widest skeleton animal with the biggest tiny that I have ever judged. And we're talking multi species.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Handled it so well. It blew my mind. And I'll be honest with you, he hit me like a mini version of last Year's champion at Fort Worth. Okay. Not just because they're both snow white, but they both had giant feet. They both had whiskey barrel ribs, and I mean, a back. You could lay in a plan down, plane on. And they moved with such elegance. And that's hard to do. The good Lord, when he created the beat the beef cows, I don't think he intended them to look like that, but they do look like that, okay? And that guy has to sit upstairs and be like, job well done. That's a nice cat. Here's the problem. The black one, the second hammer, third, fourth, fifth, sixth hammer. I'm in the ring. Those cattle, there's a natural rhythm that I know. The heavyweight class, they got to go do their thing in the back. They got away. I don't know what they do. They got to. They got to go through the process. And each time, it takes a very, very short five minutes. Guys in the green coats and I, we sit out there, shoot the breeze, just talk there. Those guys. Folks don't realize that the ring can be a very, very lonely place. The, The. The cattle superintendents in the ring do such a good job of making you feel comfortable that when there's dead time or. Or downtime, it doesn't feel like it. I got real nervous, and I told the guy that probably I spoke to the most in the ring over the two days. I'm like, hey, we have a problem. And they're like, what do you mean? I said, this rhythm is taking longer than it should, and I don't like it. Okay. Something is wrong. And instantly you get that feeling in your gut that it's just not. It's not going to end well. And the problem for me was, to that point, point I had been. Dude, I thought I was kind of like Michael Jordan in his prime. I was dropping 45 just for fun, you know, and I felt like, MJ, man, I'm going for, you know, title number six. You know, I am literally 10 minutes away from an incredible hamburger, you know, in a beverage, go to bed and get ready to drop the hammer again tomorrow. And that situation, I don't know. Not my, not my deal. What, what the show staff do and what the classifiers do. I think it's important that when you're a judge, you go do your job. You don't try to do anybody else's job. At no point was I did I try to be a ringman. At no point did I try to classify, and at no. No point did I try to run the Fort Worth Stock show. I was simply there to serve as a judge and do the best I could do at my responsibility without question. You know, I was told, hey, that class is not, you know, there was a problem. I didn't ask what the problem was. Okay. Because I don't care what the problem was. For me at that moment, anything but that calf in the ring was a major issue for me mentally moving forward. So what happened that night? And I mentioned about putting the pieces of the puzzle together. There was a major piece of the puzzle that I couldn't put on the board. Does that make sense?

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Somebody took my corner piece that really meant a lot to the puzzle. They took my corner piece and they said I couldn't use it. And that's okay. On this podcast, I dang sure do not want to take any disrespect away from the champion and Reserve Champion D1.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Those were good, good cattle. They were the upper end of class of Fort Worth. But for. For reasons that are beyond my control. That steer, he's the kind of steer when I saw him. And you are all livestock evaluators, you're all livestock fans, you're all breeders. You think about it all the time. He's the kind of steer that when you seen. You want to buy the cow, wherever the cow is. I want to buy the cow. Yeah. I love the steer. Where is that cow? I want a mass. I want to take that cow and take her to Transova or an embryo center that you use. And she never leaves. Okay.

[Host]

Y.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

That some. The bottom side of the pedigree that made that thing hats off. And whatever that mating was, I don't know to this day what that mating was, but I would do it again and again and again. And so unfortunate for the young man family don't just. It was an unfortunate situation for everybody involved, you know?

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

So obviously, you know, that steer and the steer that's second in that class, you know, they're. They're solid, you know. You know, I'll be honest with you. I don't know what the steer weighed. I would say. And class four, he probably weighed 1100, maybe 1150 something somewhere in that realm.

[Host]

I don't give the. I don't know the exact ways, but what I will say is kudos to you for handling the situation so well. That's why they hired you. That's why you're one of the most. Or that's why you are some one of the best livestock evaluators and why you're asked to judge so many big shows that many eyes are on.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Yeah, well, from a breeder standpoint, it's, it's, it's a rare time to have something that looks like that from a show debt, from a show dad standpoint. And those things don't come around very often.

[Host]

No.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

You know, and that, that's the difficulty. And I feel so, I feel, I feel for the young man and his family. It was just an unfortunate situation. But here's the key. Me, I felt like as a pro quarterback, feel like I threw an interception. Mojo. Hey, Mojo went off a little bit there. That means that I had to start the next morning stronger, bigger, and bolder then, you know, this, this game was not going to be easy to put together tomorrow. So it was tough.

[Host]

All right, guys, we're going to take just a minute to recognize the businesses and operations that have powered this episode. And if it wasn't for them, this wouldn't be possible. So I'm going to start with Hydrostat and livestock exhibitors. You need to listen up. After months of development and real world testing in both the barns and the show ring, we're excited to introduce to you the HydroSTAT plus colostrum formula.

[Advertiser]

HydroSTAT plus is your go to solution for keeping your animals in peak condition, whether you plan to use it as a top dress or drench. This formula is designed for all species of livestock and works best when started, seven days before the showdown.

[Host]

And you might ask, what makes Hydrostat Plus a game changer? While it enhances muscle health and development, it supports joint mobility and reduces inflammation, promotes a healthy gut and boosts immune function and even hydrates muscle and skin cells for that smooth, fresh show day look without any added sugar or salts.

[Advertiser]

And these results undoubtedly speak for themselves. Steers on Hydrostat plus have taken grand champion banners at Cattlemen's Congress, National Western, the Fort Worth Stock show and Rodeo, and San Angelo.

[Host]

So, you ready to take your livestock to the backdrop? Order now at hydrostat-hydrate.com and bring your best to the ring.

[Advertiser]

Now, I personally don't own any bulls, but this is for the people that do. How eager are you to reach your bull's full potential?

[Host]

Well, there's a proven operation that serves the industry at the highest degree. Bullnanza Stud Services is a full service custom semen collection facility that's centrally located in the United States. It's owned and operated by cattlemen that are dedicated to making your dreams a reality. When you bring a stud to bonanza, you can guarantee the highest quality care and services for your livestock when they arrive at their facilities.

[Advertiser]

These facilities are located in Sweetwater, Texas, which is about 40 miles west of Abilene and Stillwater, O, Oklahoma, roughly 60 miles west of Tulsa.

[Host]

Services include semen collection and processing, semen evaluations, sex semen storage and shipping, and even boarding or one day collections.

[Advertiser]

Call their offices today at 405-377-8037.

[Host]

And if you want more information, check out their website at www.bullnanza.now.

[Advertiser]

Weston, would you like to hear just an absurd fact?

[Host]

What's that?

[Advertiser]

Every grand champion steer at Fort Worth since show Biotics started selling yeti sauce on the open market has been on that distinguished product.

[Host]

Well, I'll tell you another fact. There's countless champions from coast to coast, across every species and even Canada that use yeti stuff exhaust to give them the edge they need to get to the backdrop.

[Advertiser]

But there's also products that have been used inside and outside of the show ring, which include unwind, Jump start and show Glide.

[Host]

So don't be left standing and make your own history with show bionics. There's no fluff and no filler. Just check them [e-mail] we're done with the division. One of the European crosses.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Yep.

[Host]

Did you get your burger? Was it good?

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Oh, it was. It was the first one. It's got a fried egg on it. Avocado. Like a Mexican whisk. Yeah, like insane. And. And I did, I did get to dine with my wife because she was on the phone and we talked and nor Grace and Nolan, they were home. So I did get to visit with them while I ate my burger. So we did actually get to go out to eat together. It was just on the phone.

[Host]

Hey, at least you got to talk to them and, and have you see and hear the family's voices before the next big day.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

100. It's important to judge unplugs. It's easy for me to unplug from social media because I don't have it. We do have a. We do have a livestock page. Facebook page. But my wife, I don't even. I'm not even sure how to find it. She does an excellent job on her Facebook page. That's right.

[Co-Host]

She does a fantastic job running it.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

But. But it is important to me that, hey, I'm going to talk to my family. And outside of that, that will be it until the end of the show. So, yeah, had a good meal, went to bed. Let's start. Let's start that middle division we have. We had what, eight classes to go through. Yep. On the next day. And so I, from last year, I felt comfortable in the time. I love Fort Worth. They don't say that you have to be done at a certain time. It's not like you have to be done by this time because we gotta go, we gotta be to the rodeo arena by this time. It's whenever we're done. We're gonna have a champion drive. Okay. So I like that relaxed nature. I wanted to enjoy my day because you realize, you know, my time, I, I saw the short runs coming when the first year at Fort Worth, day one was awesome, day two was awesome. But as long as you didn't majorly mess up, it was a two year gig. Well, it doesn't take a mathematician to realize, hey, this is my final day of my two year responsibility to the greatest steer show on earth. So what is happening is I'm starting to realize that Santa Claus might not be real. You know, because as soon as it's over, I'm going right back to really aging, tall, marginal looking Marco. And that, yeah, reality doesn't, doesn't look so fun. And so I want to make sure and tell myself to enjoy it. Okay, have fun, enjoy it. Be interactive. Use cattle you like. Because I knew decisions would be close. Okay. We rolled through the middles. I thought the champ in middle, pretty solid. Pretty solid fit. I mean, fit the mold of what I'm doing. I did probably reflect too much through the middles on the night before on D1, because big on consistency. I want my champions to be mirror images of each other, whether it's in a division, whether it's overall. I want, I want to set a grand of reserves that even the most critical people of Mark Hogue have to admit. Hey, that ain't bad. Okay, so I was thinking D1, but I'm like, man, I did like my D1. He's good. Oh, gosh. I got, I got more cattle coming in. Some thinking I'm putting them together. I thought each class fit together. Well. What I liked about the middles is I thought those cattle's frame size were real sensible for their weight. And so what I was able to do is pack a bunch of just horsepower on those cattle. And it didn't look gobby. It still looked poetic. It still looked, you know, like a show calf, but there was a lot of genuine horsepower there. Okay. I thought decisions once again. Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I'm telling you the toughest thing about the Fort Worth Stock show is 7 through 13. Okay? I took a little time on them, and I rewalked. I probably rewalk more cattle this year on day two than I did last year. Last year, I'd walk the top five or six. Year I was walking 15.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah, I noticed that you were making sure he got those sorted out, right?

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Yeah, but that's the depth, man. That's. That's the depth of quad I'm talking about. Here's. Here's what happens when you have such good cattle and they're so deep. I'm a little worried as I reflect. Did I hyper fixate on an issue on a calf too much? That's what you have to hyper fixate to sort the good ones, you know? Well, I could fund the Class 1 Man, if I liked him, boom. No brainer for me. Let's rock and roll. Let's rock and roll. Let's rock and roll in the middles. Like you like you like it. Well, I get to seven. I'm like, he needs more here, but God, he's good here. Am I fixating too much on his lower stifle? Those kind of negotiations? When you really want to do a good job, the mental grind is substantial. It will take a while to recoup from that little. That little venture. Okay? It does. Anybody that's ever judged for worst years, if it didn't take them a couple days to. To just rejuvenate, I'd be surprised. Okay, so I thought the middles were good. I thought they're real, real solid cattle. I thought the grain reserve fit my, my mantra pretty well for what I was trying to do. Okay, so that would be the middles. What is that, four through eight?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Okay, so any questions on the middles? I felt good. That was a solid, dang solid, good set.

[Host]

Absolutely. And at this point, I'm still watching, and I had seen everything but the Herefords just because I was getting some Americans ready. But at this point, just seeing the pulse, seeing how you were doing with Americans and then afterwards with the Europeans, consistency is in your favor and the type and kind of cattle were in your face. Same thing as last year. It's what I also want to hit on real quick is in our last episode that we had discussed is people were saying, Marco doesn't like black hided cattle. The population of black eyed cattle this year were tremendous, and black added cattle were up in the drive. And so that, I mean, to me is amazing.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

But I'll tell You what, though? That, that did play a mind game with me. It did. You know. You know what? I love when people say I don't care. Yeah, they do. I don't care what people think. Yes, they do. Anytime somebody tells me I don't give a. I don't give a hooey, I'm gonna be blah, blah. Yeah, you do. Okay, if you say you don't care, you probably care a little more than you do. And so here's my problem. I spent the last year thinking, God, I do like black cattle. You know, we showed. Well, they're black. I mean, I don't have any issue with any color. All right? And so I probably studied, you know, hey, I'd look at that calf. Look good, look good. Oh, God, he's black. Where do I put him now? Who cares? So come. And so I talked to myself. It'd be interesting. And I don't want this, but if you could ever mic up a judge for the conversations they have with themselves in a two day span at Fort Worth, I'm guessing your jaws would be on the floor because I. Oh, I'd love it. Oh my. I was in my own head so much talking to myself. It's our. It's hard telling what I, what I did, but I was pleased. The number of black cattle that came, the number of colored cat, it was, it was a good distribution. What I think is most interesting is the kettle feature. Size wise and body shape wise fit the mold. The, the exhibitors did a good job of bringing me cattle that I liked. What they thought they might have. I liked. They brought me cattle that I felt comfortable with in that ring. Cattle look different in that ring. I think the Fort Worth steer show years ago, was it in the other ring with the white walls kind of thrown in a. Yeah, yeah. You're down in the arena in a pit. I judged beat masters there last year. A steer in that ring would look totally different. Do you realize in that big ring I was handling 1300 pound steers that looked like babies? Yeah, that ring is immense. And it takes a big cattle to look intimidating in that ring, you know? And so, so I knew, I knew the ring and the environment a little better. I thought the middles fit good. I liked them. I thought the champion middle suited me very, very well. I thought he was a handle. Excuse me, within that division. And you could have went a couple different ways, but I, I really did like how I settled there. So obviously, go get me a little drink of coffee. I turn around and say, hey, we're about to step into the nascar. You know, we've been running pretty good in nascar. We're about to go to Daytown. All right. It is the NASCAR Cup Finals. We're gonna start with 9, 10, 11, 12. And this show is the only show that I've ever judged where I remember class numbers, because Everybody talks about 11. Okay? So I knew we rock and roll through nine. Boom. Set the tone for the heavies real good. We get into 10, and I'm like, doesn't take. Doesn't take genius to realize my grand reserve crosses came out of 10 last year. So I like the size. I like the kind of cattle that fit in class 10. I don't know. I think I pulled 29 or 30. It was a lot. And they were good. And I'm telling you, that eventual champion cross was in there. I got to that top eight, and I don't want to bum anybody out, but I'm a top down placer. And I told you when I find what I like, I can build around it pretty good. There was three, and that gray steer that was third had the fattest front leg and the most radar ears and the cockiest head. And I just wish he had more. Stifle steer came around the blue tarp. The third place steer took four steps in the ring and got loose. Okay.

[Host]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I'm like, oh, boy, this isn't gonna be good. That's a good cap. Well, anyway, we got him back in line. Hey, 4 through 8, 4 through 10, 4 through 12. I like it. I took just a little time on them because I had to decide my second place black steer in that glass. When you handle him in his rib shape and his chest floor was up any. It was wide and it was groovy. And that girl did a masterful job of showing him. And he had a giant hind leg and he's built like a sheep. And I have cow guys are gonna be like, oh, dang. We got a calf judge that wants built like a sheep. The sheep guys have worked on rib design for a long time. Body shape. They always talk about rib shape. That steer's body shape was insane. His back was huge. His pin set was very natural and good, and I liked him a good deal. I had to decide was he a shot racy from his loin to his flank. And then you had this giant bare front leg of a steer in third that ended up third that I got in that rear three quarter view in his blade and arm up front was wider than a stifle. He Wedged a little in the wrong way. Close call. Okay, I'll be honest with you. At no point was I not going to start with the class one. That one hit me hard initially, I will tell you. No, no. Class 10 was the gold calf.

[Host]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

No wins across.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Big legs.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

That, that was the largest hind leg in an animal I've ever judged of any species. That would sound. Okay. Now here we go. I'm like last year, class 11 juju. I'll be honest with you. I just, I had to work hard and I love that, that red steer that won last year. That one very good haired one. Class 11, good wicked cat. Gold calf. Yeah. Last year the gold calf.

[Co-Host]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Like, okay, I like that calf. But this year I got a good feeling, man. I've been going to church. I've been trying to live better. Here we go, 11, 11. This little mystical unicorn on a plate. And everybody's gonna cheer and everybody's gonna agree that this is the best bovine that has ever been on mother earth. Right?

[Host]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

So I get into him. I liked it. That chocolate white one, I'm telling you, he was one hot, hot booger.

[Host]

He was hot all right.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

And I'm like, I loved him. The yellow steering second. That ended up legs. But his, his rear feet wouldn't work. But I. But he's my kind. He's my warm and fuzzies. And then there was. Oh, God. Who was third?

[Co-Host]

I think four is a black and white calf.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Yeah. Okay. Third place, boy hatting black and white.

[Host]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Real, real fundamental. Nothing wrong with this calf. But I kept looking at him, looking at the steer in the eye. I'm like, man, I don't know if you really blow my skirt up much or not. You're so nice. But are you uniquely memorable enough for me? And I'm not criticizing the cap. That's a, that's a great solid cap. And I was telling myself, come on, Oak, he's the safe one. Then I'm asking myself when I've ever been safe. Then there's a black steering force standing neck straight up in the air. I mean, jazzy looking as can be. I walk him again, shoulder steep, too stabby behind him like, oh, a gray one in five. I'm like, here's your meat, potatoes. Big old rib cage. Big old practical looking calf. A little soft, a little pudgy. To me, man, I don't, I don't. I want athletes. I want, I want toned creatures. So what I did is I stepped back and I hope the families that are Listening on these cattle, I'm very complimentary. You love your calf and I loved your calf too. But what happened again this year is I got a love hate relationship with each one of them because the one that wins, if that calf's head's in the air and he's not 150 degrees hot, that's a bad cat. The one that, the one that wins classes the most, my speed for what I've done last year. This year, class two is what I want. The second place is what I want to love, but I can't. I don't like his rear feet and he's making me mad. Class three, I'm just like, come on, give me one little warm and fuzzy tingle. Just one, because you can win Class 4. Man, I get in the view, the shoulders a little steep that, that, the hind legs Jack. I'm like class, class. The fifth place, I just, just, just two. So here we go. I pull them, they walked up and at the very end, this class winner walks down. You know how you they want. They're going out the exit gate. This steer comes up and raises his head and shoulder above, you know, his head, neck come out of the top of his shoulder once and I'm like, boom, nailed it. Not everybody has to like that calf the best in Class 11, but he is the steer that best fits Mark Hogue at that moment. So that was 11. Hey, 12. Couple black steers, real good calf. That was a little rough hided but a nice cap. You know 12, they're good kinds of cattle. They didn't handle quite as fresh to me. One of the steer, he had a little rough spot there in his room and he just, you know, that they just didn't hit me with the touch and tone in 12. Quality, quality. But here's the problem with 12. I'm still in my mind rejudging 10 and 11. So I keep, I said, hey, I've got my top five out there. I finally told myself, Jesus, forget about 10. 11 or 9 and 10 or 10 11, let's get 12 right. So I did they come back. This is my thought. Goldilocks is going to win. Because I'm telling you, and I'll come back to this if anybody listens. The biggest determining factor this year at Fort Worth in 2025 was the heat. Class 11, tongue hanging out, kind of heaving.

[Host]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I don't want to bring problems to a champion overall drive that the citizens of Denver and Fort Worth, the syndicate, the people watching on the news media will see an animal that doesn't look comfortable. That. That's an image I don't want to share. They did the best they could of humanely taking care of that animal. Yes, sir, that animal. It didn't take an animal science background to realize that that calf was struggling with the heat. Okay. And so at that particular point, I'm like, man, this is crazy, but I've got two steers, well driven, well shown, good looking, good shaped, fresh bodied, one red, one black, class ten grand reserve. Those are all the things that went through that mind. And maybe I'm sharing too much. I. I really don't have any. Anybody can ask me at any point. I'll give you my honest opinion.

[Host]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I don't like to hide things. As a show, dad, I'd want to know. Okay.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Because once again, man, you in class 11. What the. What? What gives, man? Why did I not win Fort Worth? Everybody wins Class 11. And I don't want to be different. And I don't want to. I don't want to punish class 11. I'm just telling you. That's exactly that went through my mind in class 11. I love 95% of each one of the top five. But there was 5% that I had to decide what I didn't want to like. Gold steer. There was 3% that I change on him. And it's when you got right in front of him, I'd spread his lower rib cage just a little. That's the champion gold steer. When I got in front of him, he had a fat front leg. But I wanted just a little more cage roundness to lower cage. The reserve black steer, I like that calf a bunch. I didn't trust. He might look a little leggy. I don't like deep body. I don't like deep flight cattle. It's not, you know, that all ends on the kill floor anyway. But that loin to flank, I wanted that to be a little more symmetrical. That was three for me, okay?

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Those two cattle, I changed 3% on class 11. I changed 5%. And I. And I didn't know what that chocolate class 11 winner would do. Come. And you know, and so I love the division.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

But I love the divisions. I wanted all them cattle to come back. And when I got a rear three quarter view of the 2 and 10 and the 2 and 11, there were fewer major glaring issues with 10 than 11. 10's grand reserve for me personally in the heavy division.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Co-Host]

And one thing I want to hit on. When you were Talking the Class 10, you had said that, you know, this is my last time to judge Fort Worth. And you are someone who's been evaluating livestock for all your life and been judging competitive shows for several, several years now. Can you talk to us a little bit about what judging the Fort Worth stock show meant to you and your career?

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I've, I've tried to approach judging livestock shows in many different directions and what I've found and I learned this from my father. Some great advice that I got from him because I was struggling at a, as a 25 year old judge. I'll be honest with you, I thought I 25, I could judge any major, of any species hands down. You know, I was a very competitive, motivated person. Dad said you need to judge shows like you're never going to judge another one. Because if you judge a show trying to impress somebody to get another show, it's going to eat you up. You stand out there, you judge like you're never going to judge another show. Give it all you got every time. And if you can do that, more shows will come your way because you're not trying to get another show. You see what I mean? The harder you try to get another show it seems the tougher it is to get. So when you do get an opportunity, treat it like it's your last one. And then there will be more invitations when I settle. And I drove home that evening. It's a 12 hour drive and I drove home because I had a basketball game and a volleyball tournament the next couple days. I wanted to see my family. It's a, it's a humbling experience, you know. And I realize that this, the stock show fans that are happy and the stock show fans that are disgruntled don't understand the emotion that goes into those decisions.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

So you can be critical of a judge after I have been over the years. But when they work hard and they bust their hump and they try to do the best they can and it makes sense on the microphone. You don't agree with their priorities but what they say is there, that's an emotional drain. Do I, will I continue if given an opportunity, judge livestock shows? Absolutely. Because what I've found, everybody wants to find their place of peace. Where are you most peaceful? For some guys it's an attractor in 160 acre field doing field work. For some it's fishing. For some it might be hunt, you know, tied to a deer stand at 4:30 in the morning getting ready to shoot a monster buck.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Outside of family and my little Five acre farm and my little barn outside. I'm at peace there. Outside of that, probably the most peaceful place for me is in a show ring where livestock and junior exhibitors are close to me and the white noise of people, hopefully are on the outside of the fence. And that's a comfortable space for me to be in. So. Yes, sir, you know, what is Fort Worth, That's Pinnacle. Now that doesn't mean that I'm not motivated anymore to get a show, to get another shot at another major or state fair or national show, you know, because I truly appreciate livestock.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Steers, heifers, pigs, go sheep, doesn't matter. I, I appreciate what livestock breeders do. Putting together great livestock.

[Host]

Yes, sir. Before we move on to the Grand Drive and everything that had happened in there, you had brought up your division, your, your Class 4 winner in Class 11, I believe. Why is that? And I'm asking this because I'm curious. And if you don't, you don't have to.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Oh, yeah, really easy. We are taught when you're in a livestock judging team, you got. We all, we all were taught this. And I teach our students this all the time. I do not like making relative comparisons. I don't want to say that you are better than another guy at judging. You are you. If you're on a judging team at wiu, you are your own person. My job is to maximize your talent. Yeah, you. By maximizing your talent, you might be better than your teammate. But I'm not worried about the relative comparison. I don't like making relative comparisons of livestock. Who is bigger, who is thicker, who is sound. Hey, that's a sound devil. That's a thick devil. And that one's not very good. I look at them individually. My problem is in a show of that magnitude, you can't help yourself. But put together the show in your mind. Made no decisions before the cattle. I learned a long time ago it's a sheep show. And I'm not going to mention where it was a long time ago. I had no gray hair. I made that. I thought this thing was going to be the bee's knees and win the fair. Okay. And this is a big jackpot sheep show in the Midwest. When I came back and I did not study him close enough. He was the second best one there. I used it for champion because I married him in class and I forgot to step back and look at this other sheep. That came later. And I. Nobody told me I messed it up, but I knew I did. On the drive home from Ohio To Illinois, because I thought the other one was too big, too, too heavy, too early. I've never done it again, so I don't make decisions until I see him again. But to that point in my mind, I'm thinking, man, 11's over. 12's gonna be good. Maybe my champion is in 12, maybe. But after I got through 12, I'm realizing, hey, be a real interesting lineup where that D1 calf would have fit. I'll be honest with you, and I'll be honest with anybody. And maybe transparent or too transparent. That steer would not have been heavy enough to win.

[Host]

Right.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I did tell people I would. I've told you earlier in this podcast. Reserves can be used for a lot of expression. You can express yourself a lot of different ways in a reserve. Champions need to toe the mark. Reserved, you can do a little self expression. Been fun to see. I can't say to been reserved. I'm not going to do that because I love my reserve, and I think that would discredit the reserve.

[Host]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

But it would have been fun to see him in that lineup where. Yeah, that's. That's a. That's the reality of the situation. We can hypothesize all we want, but I tell people all the time, I told him at San Angelo, you can have the champion bear at home. I'd hate to guess how many champions I had on the grass in Good Hope, Illinois. But the reality is the show happens in the ring, and things got to work right in the ring.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

You know, and that's where luck comes in. Winning a stock show. Yeah, you got to have quality. You got to have. But you got to have luck. You got to have everything fall your way, right? Weight, burn, calf's got to eat caps, got to drink. He can't catch a stone. He can't get too stiff on the concrete over the week. All of these things go into it. You got a fitting, not up too early. Don't get him up too late. His hair's got to pop that morning. Your fitter crew, they can't take too much off their line. All those little things go into a champion, and that's a lot of luck involved, you know? So I thought for what was out there, I was proud of my three divisions of the Continental cattle or European cross. I kept calling them exotic crosses, and the first night my dad called me, goes, dude, you gotta stop that. That's terrible. My dad was giving me advice, so I think, I believe the term is European cross. And yes, sir, no, I was proud of him. That was a tough situation to have that boy. But I thought the rest of them. And keep in mind there's a lot of them kids that were 11, 12th and 13th that didn't make it. That's tough, you know. And I hope I didn't discourage them. I hope, I hope they don't leave the ring and say, well that guy's a yo yo. I'm never doing this again. I hope they say I'm motivated to come back stronger next year to make it.

[Host]

I had three favorite moments. Day two. One was seeing your champion European cross, the fat legged one for the first time come across a blue tarp. I was sitting by my dad on the second level. We looked at each other and we said oh my, oh my. My second favorite moment is you pick in the 10th place, class 12. And hearing the mama yell her guts out and she went berserk. Turns out that's probably the highest that that lot has ever sold. There's 151, 000. Insane, insane. Oh, she was happy. And then seeing my partial breed when the whole show. We're getting there now we can talk about it. And hey, before you get started, I was talking to Colter before the grand drive and I said this is going to get really interesting because I mean we had an idea but I didn't know. But just the nerves. I mean I don't even want to imagine what you felt like but the minute the words came out of your mouth, excuse me for the language. We are all American badasses. I got very, very, very excited and the crowd erupted.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Yes. And here's the problem. The local news channels there and I should not, you know, I do, I do cuss too much. You can ask my 9 year old little girl. She, she's working with me to cut to not she's like daddy, you cuss too much. And I do. That's one of my many shortcomings that I'm still working on. I'm not giving up, stopping it. But you have to know that before those cattle came in, I was very much at peace. I was as comfortable as I'd been in two days because my job was nearly complete. And I had faith that any breed champion. The Angus was a bad cat. The horn was a bad cat. The pulled was a bad cat. The American was a bad cat. You know, the, the shorties, I had so many options. Yeah, my pair of, of Europeans, I just used their clones. You know, they're same size, same look, same shape. Really for me in my own Mind, I was as comfortable and at peace with what I'd done because anywhere I went, it wasn't going to be bad. So here's the kicker that I will tell you. I told myself, I don't know, man. I was probably off the reservation last year using the American reserve. But there are two cattle that better come in, and it will take me three seconds to decide how this deal is going down.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

And I thought and I had envisioned in my mind that the American and the European would be very similar kinds of cattle. Extreme in their bone, extreme in their comfort, extreme in their look and pray presence. Here's the kicker was the American. I knew he would be the burly one because he outweighed our reserve by 100 pounds. Dude, the champion American weighed 1460.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

That calf, size wise, was built for Fort Worth Ring. You see, he filled the ring. It takes big. It takes a big steer to look strong in the Fort Worth ring because it's so big and we had to full tail tape, you know, it's Beauty and the beast. My European was, I mean, GQ cover of Vogue magazine, sexy. Okay, so did he have enough beast? Did old American Tango have enough beauties? I had no idea. They both walked in, I got a rear three quarter view and said, okay, this is about to happen. How in the world am I going to convince the audience at the four horse dog show that this is okay?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

It took me longer to figure out how I was going to do that. The decision was made almost instantaneously. I watched those cattle come in. I'll be honest with you. The Herfords came in good. One of them was a little sore. Vegas came in good. Just a tick stale. I thought the shorty would be a little stronger contender and he just. Just a little, just a little, not quite there. Look good, but just not the beast. The. The American cross. And I keep looking this way because I was standing at their rear three quarter view. The American cross pulls in. The European pulls in hip, hind leg, posture, spine look and neck. And where their neck come out of their shoulder was clones. They look like flushmates, minus a little bit extra skin. Problem is that at 13:30, the European fit inside the American. And that took three seconds.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

So at that point, what do you do? As I look back in my champion drive, what I'm the most thankful for that I did is recognize the syndicate years that I was amazing. I heard this year, you know, everybody loves Fort Worth. Everybody loves Fort Worth. Oh, my gosh. It's the best stock show in the country you do you. You clearly understand why it's the strongest deer show in the world. The sale. Premium sale. 10 million.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

It's insane. Million. Now, that's pig, sheep and goats. But they don't sell many pig, sheep and goats. Just a grand reserve championship. You see what I mean? Breed.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

So that. I think the pigs. I think the chin pig brought a reserve 150 or something.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

These folks in the syndicate raised $10 million in one year for the youth of Texas. That is the craziest thing. You think me using Americans crazy. That is small potatoes compared to what those folks do.

[Host]

Yeah. And I've always seen judges recognize final drive, whatever. Recognizing the board, the people behind the show and the ring help. What I thought was most unique is you dragging them out there and having the crowd clap for them.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I. I did ask them because these are prominent businessmen that don't need to be told what to do.

[Host]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

A lot of respect for them. I did ask. I said, are you folks with the syndicate mayor? Some of the members. I said, would you mind if I asked you to do a very small task? And they were very accommodating, you know, and so I wanted to make sure and ask them because the last thing I wanted to do was offend anybody, you know, by doing that and putting them on parade or on show. But I thought that was critically important. I thought recognizing the folks in the green coats, that's a tough job, man. And they do it well, and they do it to their best of their ability. And whether. Whether things are right or wrong, they do the best they can. I should have specifically brought Stefan out. That guy cares so much about that stock show. He passionate and he is passionate and thinks about decisions that will influence that stock show not only this year, but in three to five years to come. You know, Yes, I dropped the ball there just a little bit. But, you know, I. I thought. I don't know where my statement come from. I. I should apologize for cussing. I don't know what happened. Amnesia. My wife says, I need to think about more what comes out of my mouth before I say it. That's a classic case. But emotion, you know, emotion took over. Somebody asked me, a mom, mom asked me. She goes, I thought you were getting a little emotional. And she goes, I was surprised that no tears came out. And I said, I learned a long time ago my. My father's a really good grand drive presenter, and he handled emotion well. He did tell me once, gave me a little advice. He goes, mark, he said, you do A good job. But he said, sometimes you get pretty emotional. He said, I would encourage you to stop your grand drive speeches before you cry, because I'm not a good crier. I'm not. Just a little tear come down the line. I'm. I like ball. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

And so it was emotional for me, and so many different levels, and the old voice was getting a little creaky. I'm like, yep, it's about time to wrap this up, because I don't want to be the guy weeping, you know, in such an exciting moment. And so, you know, so grand Drive was good. The show was excellent. And without a doubt, it'll be, you know, one of those most memorable experiences for two years that, you know, that. That I've ever had to judge for. Sure.

[Host]

Well, boys, do y'all have anything else to tack on or add to before we do this closing of the episode?

[Co-Host]

I think we're good. This was a very powerful episode. Went a lot longer than I was expecting, and I'm very happy for it.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I just looked at it. Boys, it's 904. I thought we'd wrap this up in 30 minutes. It's been an hour and a half.

[Host]

It has been.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I'm so sorry. I talked to.

[Host]

No, no, hey, don't be sorry. Because I was expecting two hours.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Yes.

[Host]

And I got ready. I got my snacks over here and my drinks, and I'm ready to rock and roll. And I thought it was gonna be longer, but I cannot say how appreciative I am of your honesty. What? And I'll say it this way. I was mentored at the show, watching you handle all those types of situations and how you did it. So thank you to me for teaching me and showing me how to handle situations and being a blessing to us coming on this podcast, helping us grow. And I started this to learn well, from the first episode to now.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

But this is. This is, in my opinion, it takes two things, and it could be judging a stock show. It could be in business. It could be in your academic undergraduate pursuit. It takes two things, in my opinion, to function. And it rang at a high level. It takes passion, and it takes integrity. And if you keep those two things as your barometer that you are passionate about what you're doing, and you are going to make your decisions that are true to you, yourself, and no one else. Things good fortune will come with passion and integrity.

[Host]

Yes, sir. I agree. I've seen many of people have those two things and be have uber to success and the Only other thing you can, you can do is know who the good Lord is and know that he leads your path and not you.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

Absolutely. Well stated.

[Host]

So Mark, I appreciate everything that you did on this, on this episode and coming back on for a second time. It's been phenomenal and I think, I think we went into detail in so many different ways that people have clarification in everything that we talked about. It's just is awesome.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

So thank you.

[Host]

With all this said, this is not the season. This is not start to a season. It's his own episode. And honestly, we're probably gonna have a few more post game interview type stuff. But that's for the future and to see what holds, I would encourage you to do it.

[Dr. Mark Hogue]

I've really enjoyed it. Like, like it's, it's great to get a judge's reflection. Yeah, I think it's really cool.

[Host]

I'm gonna try. We're gonna, we're gonna see what we can do. Especially for the major rest of the SO show season. So perfect. We will definitely see what we can do. But with all this said, this is empowering you. Once again with Dr. Mark Hogue. We will see y'all next time.

[Advertiser]

Make sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram @empowerupod for episode sneak peeks and merchandise updates.

[Co-Host]

But also go take a look at our new website, empowerupod.com where you'll find our team's story, sponsor updates and much more. Once again, we just want to thank you all for tuning in and please follow us on Spotify or Apple podcast and leave a five star rating. If you like what you hear, have a blessed day.