C (3:36)

Yeah, like Weston said, I'm. My name is Kegan Jeffrey. I'm, I'm from Sweetwater originally. Me and Wesson kind of come back from the same hometown roots a little bit. You know, he. He may not have been bleeding the red, but he, he acted like he wanted to be a part of it. So we, we don't, we don't knock him for that. But now, like you said, I live up in, around Dallas, Fort Worth area, just south of Fort Worth in Alvarado. Just moved up here this last November, so going on a year here and I just, you know, just kind of staying in the show world of doing what I do here and, and traveling and all the things, you know, I mean, just. It's kind of, kind of a little, little eye opening and things kind of jumping out and doing stuff on your own, you know. And ever since I've done it, I've, I've thoroughly enjoyed it and being able to work on my own time and do my own things and still have a life is dang nice. You know, I'm, I grew up showing cattle from a very young age there in Sweetwater. It's kind of, kind of crazy. The Bull Nanza collection facility was my old show barn. And that thing is Colton has done an awesome job of flipping that thing and doesn't look like A show barn anymore. It looks like a bull facility, that's for sure. So it's pretty cool seeing that change and the things. But you know, really it's kind of as far as everything like that, it's, it's pretty much been the same ever since I started just stay in the show world and doing everything that I can to stay afloat.

B (5:23)

Awesome. Awesome.

D (5:26)

So now to kind of, I guess kind of take it back from the beginning and start it up kind of what got you started? Why'd you got started? Kind of what's some passions, kind of maybe you started some mentors.

C (5:36)

So both of my parents growing up or both of my parents not growing up still my parents, they grew up showing. My mom had a little success here and there, but my stepdad growing up, he won a few majors to end out his career and, and, and everything like that. So really what kind of got me started and into it was both of my parents growing up and doing it. My uncles did it. It's been a family thing. And ever since I can, I can remember and hearing people talk, as long as it's gone on, it's been a family affair. So it was kind of bred into me. Kind of really didn't have a choice but to do was that and play football and we focused heavy on the show world and everything like that. And so from all that it's. I've had uncles, aunts, I mean everybody's been, been in it and been showing. So like I've, I've pretty much not really had a choice but not to do it. Just from far as my background and everybody that's in my family. So I mean I mentors, you know, the people that have helped me along the way, you know, still to the day. I mean like growing up I had very good ag teachers. Corey Raines, Kenneth Dudenstein were very good and helped on a lot of things that we needed help. After high school, I worked for Patchke, Brandon Patchke at Patchke Landing Cattle for five to six years. And that guy taught me a lot. I was in and out of a lot of things. The cows, the show barn. Helped out with a little bit of the farming. Not really my forte on that deal. But from there it's just kind of transpired into different, different people and things from there, you know, I got hooked up with Adam Shirley while I was there and Matt Shirley, Georgia boys. And them two are as good as gold. And if you ever have a second or some time and you're going through the barn and watching them or looking for somebody to watch and you see them, dang, sure, take the time and watch. And those guys teach you a lot. I've learned a lot from them past that. You know, my Uncle James, I worked for him for four or five years, and probably where it all honed in on me and made a lot of sense and everything became more of a second nature was when I was there, I was all hands on, did the show calves, calved out, all the cows bred the cows, got more in depth with the cows, and then along with that, as I was there and transpired and like today and everything, Tony Jeff's has been another one that's been there pretty much through thick and thin with me and has helped me in more ways than. Than I. I could ask for help and, you know, and not batted an eye and. And just been there when you need it. That guy's. I've learned a lot from that guy and how to. As far as doing different things at shows, going at it a different way, and kind of a. More of a, I guess you could say, maybe healthier way of doing it. That guy there has taught me a lot and I've. I've retained and learned a lot from. From them and their operation there in Stephenville.

B (9:11)

Awesome. Awesome. And so, you know, naming all these people and learning as much as you have through all these big names, you've had to have learned by now what finding a good calf looks like. And maybe I'd want you to explain the separation between good and great and what those traits look like on these cattle nowadays with the development that we've had in the show steer world so.

C (9:39)

Far, I mean, this is as well as y'. All. Y' all know as well as I do. I mean, like, it's hard to make a great one. There's. There's always one that you can pick on, you know, nitpick things here and there. So, like, getting close to a great one is very hard. But, I mean, you'll come across one, you know, a dime a dozen. You know, there's two or three every year that you're just like, holy shit. Like, how. How can we get our program to promote those type of things and have those type of things, but as far as, you know, like, looking at them and picking them out and. And all the things, you know, like, it's. The basics are all there. You know, they got to be good on their feet and legs and have big feet and legs with that carries up into, you know, stout, stout. When you get behind them, you Know, they're spread open over their back and got good rib shape and can carry that with an elegant, awesome look with them, you know, and still having all that stoutness and look, you still got to be able to be. Sound like them legs might. Might look good standing there, but if you start moving them and they just kind of. You kind of just turn your nose and that's probably one that you're not going to be just honed in on as much. For me, like, when I start looking at them, I always got to see if one can move. That's the first thing that I look at. If one can move, then I study them from there and then, you know, just everybody's got their priorities and priorities are different for everybody. You know, I keep mine to pretty basic, you know, which one's the coolest, looking the stoutest, got all the good parts and pieces and still moves. Moves very well with all. All the extra added bells and whistles that the cast got. It's definitely changed from when I grew up showing, you know, 10 years ago to now. Like, you know, a lot of people wouldn't think that it would change that much dramatically. I mean, but it has. I mean, even year after year, everybody's breeding different, better things. Everything is getting better and better. And I think a lot of people are starting to. To figure out, you know, what bulls work on, what cows and. And as far as that aspect. But I remember, you know, growing up, like, I mean, heck, we. We didn't spend over. When I was showing, 7,500 to $10,000 was. Was a lot of money for a calf. And nowadays, you know, that's. That's fairly cheap compared to what, you know, some of these things are bringing, you know, and if you can come across one that, that is 7,500 or 10 grand, you know, a lot of people may think that it's not very good due to the fact that of that price that you may have on them or, you know, whatever. But if people, real cattle people, and if they're. They're in the show world and they can read them, they'll think that they hit a home run if they can find one like that. But I can remember, Heck, I mean, we. We did all the right things and worked our ass off to get where we needed to be. I mean, the very first calf that I bought, I bought from the cell barn for 300 bucks. And I go win Odessa with it. Just, I'm not saying trying to toot my own horn or anything like that, but just, I Mean, just all of our ducks were in a row. We did the right things at the right time to help get everything out of that animal. And nowadays you're still wanting to help the animal all the way and doing all the things that you can't, you need to do. But you know, a lot of times and they're making them nowadays that you know that that feed bucket will do everything that you need to do. If you, if you're good with the feed bucket, those things will come come together for a guy. But I mean it has changed more ways than you know, I can really sit here and just go on and on about, but I know that the biggest thing of what's changed is a couple things is price. For damn sure, the price has gone sky high, just about like everything else. And just the way that these cattle are made nowadays, phenotypically and genetically, you know, put together, it's a complete different world from what they were 10 years ago till today. And looking back at some of the things and pictures that I've got of mine, I'll look back and I'm like, how the hell did I get along so good with this calf? Like, you know, and just then, now looking back, I mean you're, you're forever grateful, but you still have that. You're like if you compare them to, you know, a calf that wins Fort Worth a year or two ago to, you know, back in 2013, 14, you're like, how in the hell did that, did I get ahead of that or did I that I come out of that one? But it's all changed. I mean, and it's, it's dang sure change for the better. All of it is, is on the come up and it's going to continue to change and be good for, for years to come.

D (14:47)

Oh yeah, no doubt. So now in your opinion, now that you've, I mean, growing up and everything fed a ton and even bought and sold and helped families and I've helped a bunch of families, I'm sure, push a bajillion calves. Now in your opinion, is it better to maybe grab an earlier maturing one and kind of hold on to it and kind of hold that calf or find a later maturing one that you can kind of push and really not really have to hold on and just go guns a blazing at it?

C (15:10)

Man, it all, it depends a lot how I base all mine as far as if I'm going to put a calf in a family's hands, I look to see after, you know, I'll Watch a family for a year or two and see how they feed. Every family feeds different. Everybody has a different approach about how they want to get there until the end. There's some guys, I've got some families that I've. I've sent them, you know, a holdover, an early mature in one. And I'm, you know, I tell them, like, hey, you don't have to feed this thing. Just coast him along, do the things. And, you know, I'm not trying to dog them, but they'll. They'll go the opposite direction on you, you know, and it's just. It's just the. A family, you got to figure out what each family can do, what each family is their best at. You know, you got some families that can take a real really good built, skinny one, just pour the coals to them. They like to feed them, you know, and then you got some of them guys that, that, you know, only want to show maybe two or three and go to, you know, Fort Worth and San Antonio, and if it works out, they go down later. But it just all depends on the family and, you know, and if they've got somebody working in their barn and if they'll, you know, kind of work with you and not against you on all the, you know, feeding critiques and everything that you need, you know. But coming down to that, as far as placing them and buying them and selling them, a lot of it depends on the families just due to the fact that everybody does something different. You know, if you listen to one guy, you're going to get an outcome. But, you know, listening to and getting input from a few different people and looking at it a different way will really kind of open your eyes about it and help you learn more as well into the cattle world. But like, you know, just said, like, it all depends on families. You know, what, what they can do, how. How they feed and everything like that. You know, I've got a lot of them that, that like the skinnier ones, you know, I don't have. I've got a few that, that like the holdover ones and a few that can feed the holdover ones. But most of them, they. They'll take a real skinny one and just feed the shit out of him and, and he'll grow and do all the things and, you know, they'll think, you know, like I hear them saying all the time, like, man, I never thought this calf would come be this, you know, would. Would be this way or, you know, get this stout or yada, yada, you know, And a lot of that just comes with the, the time and effort that they put in and keeping a good consistency of doing the things and the right things. You know, if you, if you can do that, the cattle will come, come around for you. Some are just, you know, a little, little further behind than others, but, you know, that's just kind of part of it. They all take, it takes all different types, kinds and sizes and shapes to, to do good in this world nowadays, you know, and it might completely change, you know, this next year we might go back to 1990s type cattle or something, you know, I mean, just hopefully not. I hope, I hope not either for what we've got out there. But you know, I mean, it's just one of those things that's just kind of always changing and, and keeping up with, within it in itself and knowing the families and what, what they can bring to the table to help. Help you help them in an aspect.

B (18:36)

Right? Yeah. Well, you're talking about families and such, Kagan and some stories that I've heard before and that you've told me as well. I would like the audience to listen to because it's impactful, honestly. But I'd like to know, you know, what got you started with Patchke and, and Shirley, maybe Horn, even Tony Jeffs. Now, how did you manage making and maintaining those connections? Maybe what's a favorite memory you were a part of with those people individually? And how did those memories or even connections motivate you?

C (19:10)

Right, so I. The Patchky deal. So back up a little bit. Right before I went to Patchke's, I went and worked for Horn for a summer and helped in the show barn and everything there. And then Patchke had called me and wanted me to come up there. And what got me kind of going that direction was I was gonna go to school up there at South Plains and work for Patchke part time. School didn't end up working out for me, so I just stayed on full time there for Patchke and Patchke and his family and my mom's side of the family all grew up from post and they were all they showed together and all the things. So we've always had the kind of the family connection there. And Patchke at the time, you know, I don't know if he still does. At the time, he thought I kind of hung the world for being a young kid and jumping out and wanting to do it as much as I, I wanted. But from there, like Patchke's man, they made me feel like I was at home. Like it was a family deal. Like, you know, everybody was a part of it, and everybody worked together, you know, go to the shows together. I mean, eat, go out and eat. You know, just not even at shows, just a random Wednesday night. You know, we'd all go out to eat. And it's just one of those deals that being being away from home for the first year or two and finding something like that to kind of help build the relationship and make you more comfortable, that was a big thing for me, just being treated like I was one of them, not an outcast. The kids, I loved every single one of the kids still do. They're all great. Some of the best times in winning what I've had was with them. I remember there was. It was. I can't remember the exact year, but Patchke. We had reserved the middleweight division of the crosses at Fort Worth. And then we won Class 10. And we thought we were about to hit a home run humding it, you know, just. That was when class 10 was still the class to be in. 11 and 12 were a shot big. And then we get out there, and that's the first year they go to class 11. That's the year Horn, I believe Avon wants with a gray one. So that was the first year they went to 11. And that right there, that us not getting a piece of that and kind of having a kick in the balls, that really motivated me and wanted me to. Made me want to do better, put more into it, get more out of it type deals. And I mean. And while I was at Paschke's, how I got hooked up with Adam Shirley. Brandon bought calves from Adam Shirley still does to the day. But I spent a lot of time with Adam clipping and doing things at the barn and being at shows and seeing how he does things. And from there, it just kind of grew. Like, we just stayed friends. When we see each other nowadays, we'll sit there and talk and 30, 45 minutes, have a couple beers, just like two buddies. That's one thing that I liked with Adam was he didn't really have the family aspect or give you the family kind of niche about it, but the guy was a friend, you know, and if you wanted needed something, he was there. And that just kind of transpired from going from there and helping other guys, you know, Like I said, I went back to my original family and helped them. And along the way, Tony Jeffs has been there all the time pretty much ever since I kind of about. I guess since I graduated. So for about 10 years me and Tony have stayed. Stayed tight and stayed together. And he, like I said, he's helped me in more ways than I could count, but that was another one that's just. Man, he just treats you like a homie. And that, that's big, big for me nowadays because a relationship in this world means a lot to a lot of people. And if you can have a good relationship and continue to keep that afloat, man, I really do think, like, it'll be just. It doesn't happen automatically, but good things will come. Come out of it, you know, the longer the run, just, you know, about like anything. But I mean, as far as memories and all that, I mean, like, I've. I've had a bunch. I mean, there's, there's a lot. I mean, shows helping Tony at national shows and winning national shows and, and, you know, Patchke doing, doing the things he did. I mean, just I've been very lucky and very fortunate to be where I've been, who I've helped and had very, very good success. It's kind of unbelievable for me to think about that because growing up from what I did, I got along at a couple shows and won a couple, but didn't have the success and the lifelong friendships that I've built ever since I started at Patchke's and just progressed and, and work forward to, you know, till today.

D (24:30)

Yeah. So now working with all these people and going out and looking at a ton of calves, what's maybe some genetics that intrigue you the most kind of nowadays, or maybe even the diversity in the American breeds and exotics British, maybe some trends that are kind of changing in them, man.

C (24:46)

I'll start with exotics since I'm most familiar with it. I mean, in God We Trust, you know, he's. Even though he died, he's still, still bangs them out. Like, I mean, that guy, just that. That one does a very good job for a lot of different cows. You can go a lot of different ways with that one. Very versatile, you know. And then like I've been around a lot of how great past couple years, you know, like those things are really turning the corner and you probably got to be maybe just a little more selective of how you're going to breed them or what you're going to breed them to. But if you can find one that, that clicks, I dang sure wouldn't steer away from it. And like the British and the American deal, the Americans ones that I can think of off the top of my head for sure all come from thigpen you know, the Nelson bull, he's you know, now deceased, but we were able to have. Have some out of him. We had success with a couple that we've had out. You know, I've been able to work on a few of them that have had very good success. Weston and them had had one at Fort Worth this last year that was second in the lightweight Americans. That was a killer. And I do believe if that calf would have been a middle to a heavyweight, he would have gave the one that won the show. He'd have gave him a run for his money. That calf was. He was dang good. He was just small, but he was damn good. And really on the American that if people ask me what. What to go to, that's my first. First thing is Nelson like I've. They're. They're the closest thing to a crossbred with a pecker and ears as you can get in my opinion. You know, that they. That. That guy. That guy just knocks it out of the park. And then we. We also had one year a. You can tell me if I'm wrong lesson. Was it 5319? Was that the cow?

B (26:44)

So you turn around.

C (26:46)

Was that a rip? Yeah. Was that a red raider?

B (26:48)

5319 as a red raider. 5319.

C (26:51)

That. That mating there I thought was. Was damn good for. For that time. And it's calf was phenomenal that he. For a red American. I mean he, he was. I mean that one. That one always is in the back of my mind as well. And I, I seen, I've seen that calf and then I've seen his full brother that Thigpen has as a bull now what's, what's his name? Mind blank here.

B (27:25)

Rainbow Steve. No. Is that right?

C (27:27)

No, no. Solid red. He's solid red. Gosh dang.

B (27:36)

I should know this, but I don't. I don't know.

C (27:38)

Remember I got. I can see him standing there in the pen when I seen him. And that thing was un. Un freaking real. I can't remember his name. But anyways, that, that one, that one let. Let a fire in my ass about if somebody's going to want to breed some. Some American things to get slick shearing Americans. That, that one was. Was very good British. British cattle. Like I've. I've always. I'll talk. Talk down and talk shit about Herefords, but I've got a soft spot in my heart for. I'll be the first to tell you for, for a good Hereford, you know, working At Patchke's, when I was there, he. He had some Highway 30 threes that were really good. That's kind of. Kind of on the back burner now. That one. You had to be very selective of what you were breeding to. Yeah, Bradley Hales had some. Some easy jets, some right on times, you know, some things for his Hereford wise, you know. And then, like the shorthorns, I've been. I've liked a lot of those perfections. I think that you kind of got to be maybe a little selective of how you breed him as well. But as far as a short horn or having something colored up or, you know, one that can still give you some. Some versatility of breeding crossbred or, you know, back on your short horns, that one does a lot of good things and puts a lot of good pieces together in the end when it all comes together. But I mean, really, you know, I don't. I don't have just a favorite. I mean, I mean, I guess you could say crossbreds, because. Grew up, grew up showing crossbreds. You know, crossbreds are pretty cool. But for me, man, is. Is. It don't matter what color, breed, whatever. If they're good, I'm in kind of about like anybody. Like, it's just. It's hard to find a good one of every breed that represents that breed very well. And if. If you can do that and once you find the one, it's. It's hard to turn away and, And. And not. Not think about that one. Remember, Remember them? And so like me, I just. I like just good, good cattle. It don't matter. Shape, sizes, or whatever. People always. I'm not scared to sell a little bitty one. People always be like, man, that thing's going to be little. And I tell them, I'm like, yeah, well, that's why they got, you know, lightweight classes. You know, they got. They got division ones at Fort Worth. I mean, I mean, but I mean, it. Me, I just like good cattle. Good sound, functional, good cattle that, that have all the parts and pieces that a guy wants and that'll just feed and put them together, you know, and that's hard, hard to find and hard to do, but once you do it and then you've. You've got a few that you. You really like it, then it just makes your job so much funner of being able to do it.

B (30:39)

Yeah. Hey, we're dumb because his name's Red 5319.

C (30:46)

I can't believe close with the 5319.

B (30:50)

We were close. And yes, that bull is very, very good. And he's knocking some awesome. Actually, I was at James Friday and I saw a red 5319, one American steer on the ground. He looked away.

C (31:05)

Heck yeah. I forgot. I forgot. We put. We did that. We. He flushed that Hell's Bells cow to that, right?

B (31:12)

Yeah, Hell's bills.

C (31:14)

Yeah, yeah. That tiger strap brindle kill. Yeah.

B (31:18)

Yep.

C (31:18)

Yeah.

B (31:20)

So good stuff.

C (31:21)

Yeah.

A (31:21)

Well, okay, so a hot topic that.

B (31:24)

I want to talk about first. There's two different ones that I think are important that we need to discuss, but one of them being trimming feet. And that's something you've evolved in here recently and got fairly very good at. There's kind of four parts to it, and you can answer them how you want, but we can start the first one. How important is it trimming feet? How often do we need to trim the feet?

C (31:51)

It. I mean, it's very important on. Especially as the way these things are getting bred nowadays. We're breeding them so. So jaked up to try to get a great one. And. And with that all being said, all the genetic, you know, things that they have that still goes down into their feet, you know, a lot of them, when I flip them over, they got, you know, they'll roll underneath their feet. They got bubbles. You know, they've got things that are making them stand uncomfortably not square, hitting the ground square. And all that is just due to the fact of how we're breeding them, you know, and what. What genetics they've got in them. But it's very important to get them on a good flat surface that they're very comfortable on, that you take all the. All the nicks and crevices and all that out of them. You know how I explained to a lot of people, you. You grab four or five rocks, throw them in your shoe and go walk a mile. And you tell me, yeah, you tell me how. How far you're gonna get. I mean, hell, you may not get down the driveway. Yep. You know, and so you gotta. Once I tell people that and, you know, kind of explain to them and show them, they understand more of like how critical it is to get their feet done. And it's not just a. You know, the ones that got the. Got problems you're gonna have to do. Just depends. I tell everybody six to eight weeks if they want to stay on a good schedule, you know, but like, there's. There's some that might need it every four weeks. You know, you're not. You're not Changing anything as far as toe shape or toe length or anything, but you're just flattening them back out to keep them on a square, good sound surface for them to keep them comfortable. Because, I mean, if you don't and their feet start hurting about like anybody, they get tired, they get cranky, you know, they're just not going to do for you. And if you can keep them comfortable at the ground and keep everything mobile and doing, doing the right things and going the right direction, that eliminates a lot of the. Of the structural issues that people have later on down the road. You know, I get to shows in the end and, you know, you can definitely tell which ones have had their feet done all year or which ones have just had it done once or twice. And the ones that just had it done once or twice are usually the ones that got fouled up. Long, curly toes or, you know, don't get around the ring comfortable. You know, they just kind of look like they hurt when they move around. And a lot of that comes down to, you know, starting at the ground. How I, like I said earlier, you know, when I pick cattle out, I look at their feet and look at the ground first, and I work from the ground up. Because for me, like, in the way I tell people, like, it all starts at the ground. I mean, you can have the best, best one looking standing there, but if he can't move or if he's uncomfortable at the ground, then you can just go ahead and count yourself, you know, six, seventh, eighth down the line. But it's, It's a lot of people, Some people want to do it all the time, you know, and I'm the first one to tell people if they don't need it done, there's no need to grind on feet and get them sore for just, no, no reason, you know, And I'm. I'm not gonna. I'm not out just to go collect a paycheck. Every time I do it, yes, I want the money, but at the same time, like, my job is to. To help the cattle and get them to where they can do everything that the, the breeder needs them to do, the feeder needs them to do. And then for me, like, I take good pride in trimming their feet and making sure that I'm getting them as close to perfect every time that I'm doing it as I can get. And that, that helps, you know, tremendously of keeping business and treating people the right way.

D (35:51)

Right? So now the ones like you'd mentioned that might, that might have their Problems where they curl in or got the bubbles or even I know someone get kind of their toes are uneven. How do you go about kind of fixing those problems and kind of getting them back as close to normal and comfortable as you can and kind of staying on top of that too.

C (36:06)

So as far as like going on the bubbles, a lot of them are on the inside bottom of their foot. And so what it. What it's doing is while they're starting to roll is the inside heel has got a bubble on it and it's pushing them and rolling them outside. That'd be how I explain that again, would be put a rock on the inside of your shoe and stand on it. And if you where you're gonna hit that rock, you're gonna want to naturally roll your foot off of that rock when you're walking. Same same thing on them bubbles. So when I start and I flip them over and the generic rule of trimming feet and that way you know you're not gonna foul anything up is. And the way I do it is inside toe, outside heel. I'd always get the inside toe and outside heel to give them that flat, good surface. And then from there I take that the bubble down and line it in with our whole foot. You know, I don't try to completely grind all that off and make it uneven on the bottom side for them. You still want a good flat heel on them, but you want to take that from the backside of their heel to their toe. You basically want that as flat as you can get it. Now, all to keep. To keep them sound and everything going right. Doing that, you're never going to mess one up. Now all of them are different. Now. Some you might have to take a little more toe off to match their heel, or just a nickel more heel to match their toe. But that just comes along with some of that genetic stuff and the way it's all coming breeding into them. But for the most part, if you can stay tried and true, inside toe, outside heel, you're going to keep them sound, they're going to stay square and be able to utilize, and everything's going to be comfortable for them. The more you're starting to try to take off more toe or leave more heel or change one here and there, that's when issues are going to start evolving and coming to the surface due to the fact that that calf's not. Not used to that. And when you start taking them out of their comfort zone at the ground, everything about that animal from then on will change the way they Handle their feed the way they, you know, they move around, just the way they stand there. Like, if you can keep that down and in good as far as not too much. But there's a. There's a. Is a fine line between too much and not enough. If you can find that. That fine line and stay right there and not try to dramatically change one the very first time you. You trim them, you're gonna stay ahead. Now, over time, if one's got a problem, like if one toes out or, or one, you know, wants to stay a little rolly on the back, back side of their heels, you know, you'll. You'll continue to. You may have to do them a little bit more. But like, on their turning out, like, if you. If you try to completely change, get one turned around the very first time they got their feet done and it's just. It's out of whack. They're out of whack. They're not comfortable with it. But if you can progressively get them every time you trim their feet, not just a little more often, a little more off by the time they get to their show. And then cattle, you won't ever even tell that you've been trying to change that thing about, you know, to change one there or do anything about that. You know, I feel like some guys that if they're just kind of starting out and doing it, they want to. They want to get them perfect the. The very first time. And yeah, that. That's good. And you know, love the enthusiasm of trying to get them perfect and be perfect, but at the same time, like, that can come back and haunt you and bite you in the ass and not. Not be what you thought it was gonna be. So like, they're, like I said, there is a fine line of happy medium and knowing. Knowing when you. When you need to stop and when you need to keep going, that just comes along with flipping a bunch over and doing a bunch and about like anything, just getting comfortable and know it. Knowing. Knowing how to handle each and every one of them, because every time you flip one over, they're all different. But like I said, if you can stay tried and true to that inside toe, outside heel, you're going to stay ahead of the game and keep everything go in the right direction of what they need to be, right?

B (40:33)

Yes, sir. Well, one thing now that I want to talk to you about, now that we've kind of gone over the surface of trimming feet, I get a lot of questions of how often should we bring these prospect steers out to shows over the summer and does that quote, unquote, impact their growth? Obviously, if you're taking them out as the prospect steer, they're probably going to grow a little bit. Bit naturally. But I want to know your opinion on how often should we take these steers out and when should we stop taking these steers out to get prepared for the Texas major season.

C (41:08)

So I, I think, you know, like, when it's dang sure, it's, it's. It's very good to get them out and get. They got to get used to the things they, they got to see new sites. Like they. A lot of them, they get. They get barn sour. They're just used to everything right there in their own barn, you know, like, and, and then when they go to. They go to say you don't take them to any. Any jackpot shows or anything, and you take them to the major. Well, for one, if they've never left your house, that trailer ride alone is gonna set them back so much. They're not gonna feed, they're not gonna eat or drink, you know, and they're just. You're gonna be fighting the entire time you're at the show. So I think it's very beneficial and very crucial to get them out as an early age and get them get. Get 3, 4, 5 shows underneath their belt. You know, whether it be every two weeks or you've got, you know, a couple one month, a couple the next. But keeping them in tune of, of, of in the show. Show setting, because it is completely different than your barn setting. But like, we, we like to try and when I was, you know, dealing with a bunch and taking care of families, I would try to. To get them out at least. Man, I'd say, you know, anywhere from five to seven times in the summer, you know, and I tried to do a lot of it before it got too hot. About once you hit July, you know, it's hot everywhere. And cattle are just going to kind of want to go off feed just a little bit and not do what you want. Look the best, look the part all the time. And so I think getting them out, getting them acquainted, all that early on is going to be beneficial later on now. You know, like, there's a lot of people want to go and blow every weekend. And that's great, you know, that, that's. That's cool, you know, more power to them. But in the same sense, a lot of those ones that. That go and blow all the time throughout the summer, in the end, they're just, they're not, they're not primed up in tune the way they should be because you've hauled them so much and just kind of beat them down a little bit. Like I'm very big on. Yes, these are show cattle and we're trying to make them bodybuilders in the, you know, as close as we can with all the, all the things. But at the same time, these things are still cows. They still, they're still bovine. Like they still need to be a cow. And it's just kind of how I explain it to people is like you got a cow that say you got a cow that you're putting in a lot and you're feeding her and you know, she's, she's in just a, you know, 100 by hundred lot or whatever. Yeah, you. And you got grass and stuff. Yeah, it's, that's good for the cow and everything, but like you've got that cow on one side of the fence and then you've got 20 others out here that got 150 acres and that are out just being cows, doing what they want to do when they want to do it. And yada, yada, how much better those cows in that 150 acre pasture are gonna look than them ones that are just standing up there in the lot even though you're feeding them and doing all the things for them. But that just puts added stress on them. And so I think that if you can let, if you can teach them to be a show steer and once, you know, you've got them to be a show steer and they're doing the things for you, they eat and drink when you want them to and they show good and they look good all the time when you're going to them shows, that's great. But at the same sense you got to bring them home and you got to let them be cows because that's when they're going to really do all the things that you want them to do quicker than what they would be doing if you're hauling them and putting stress on them every week or, you know, every two weeks or whatever. So I think a big thing about it is getting them out early, hitting them hard pretty early, putting them up, letting them be cows. And then after that, you know, when you kind of go down into fair season and right before getting into majors, kind of the end of the year, I would always pinpoint just a few shows and really try to max them cattle out for them few shows. And then past that they were they were getting to be cows again. And then, you know, that. That time of the year when it's time to start cranking on them and doing all the things and pushing them, then from then on, it's game on. But I think up until that point, in order for them to do what you want them to, in the end, some things got to be cows at some point in their life. You just kind of got to pump the brakes and just let them be cows, let them do their thing, and they're going to stay fresher. They're not going to get stale and sour with you, and they're going to do more of the things you want them to and work with you and help you than work against you. And a deal like where you're fighting them all year long.

D (45:59)

Absolutely. So now to jump back or I guess jump to another topic and talk about your other expertise. I want to talk about, like, the clipping and fitting world kind of, when did you get started in that kind of. Where did, like, what age find your passion? Who maybe kind of taught you in the beginning, helped you kind of get started with it?

C (46:18)

Growing up, like, I was always. Always wanted to and like, where I learned a lot as far as the way the hair needed to be pulled, the direction how it needed to look was when I would break cattle down at a show at a young age, I would act like I was fitting them.

B (46:35)

Yeah.

C (46:37)

And that helped me a lot with, like I said, getting the hair, knowing where the hair needed to be, what direction, how it needed to be pulled, and then from there, you know, it just kind of worked up. And, you know, finally I got to start putting glue in them and then clipping them. And I always remember I worked on front legs all on my catalog. I fit on every calf that I showed until I got, you know, into high school and stuff. I was always on the offside show, offside, front. And it just. I mean, it's kind of a thing. You. You've got a. How would you say this? It's a. It's kind of a. It's a ladder. Like, you kind of got to work down there at the. You got to be the. On the leg nobody cares about. And then you just kind of work your way around and stuff. But, man, just like anything, I mean, hell, the more you do it, the more it just kind of comes natural to you. So as a young kid, I was always. I was fortunate enough to be able to fit on a lot of my own and some of the customers that we sold to and then really kind of started clipping once I got older, junior, senior year, kind of got more affiliated with the actual clipping part. And then when I went to Patchky's, well, I'll say, when I was at Horns, basically all he did was he just locked me in the clipping room and he told me, figure it out. And so I was like. I said, yeah. I was like, all right. I said, don't. Don't be mad if they come out looking, like I said. But I said, I'll figure it out. And then there. Patchkey, He. He did the same thing. Patchy did a little bit more help. He. He would. He would knock a line off over there over their hips and over their shoulders. And then he would be like, okay, figure it out. So, I mean, he at least gave me a start or a point that I needed to get to. And as you know, you can. I mean, anybody can knock hair off of one. And so like that. That while I was there starting there, like, I was getting real acquainted, more of knocking hair off of them and getting the right type of lines that a guy needed to get once I got a lot better at getting that, that's where Adam Shirley come into play and watching him clip and clipping with him. And that guy honed me in on a lot of things and taught me a lot of odds and ins and outs of how, you know, where to take care off to make this look better. Or this needs to be tighter here to pop this out, or this needs to be a little higher here to blend in with the shoulder and the neck and everything like that. And so I give a lot of credit to that guy as far as giving me. Honing me in on making one look complete when you're done with it. And this kind of along with that, I mean, I'd go to shows and help people fit and do all the things and just. I mean, I felt like each time that I did a leg, I just, you know, kind of got a little better and better and finally got where now, like, I'm. I'm very comfortable with it. You know, I'm. It doesn't matter the type and kind of hair. Like, if working on. I've worked on all different types and kinds of hairs, and so I think that that is beneficial of being able to work on less hair. Ones that don't have a lot of hair, you think you're going to. It is a lot easier to foul one up that way. But if you. If you can get where you can make one that doesn't Have a lot of hair. Look like it's got a lot of hair than them ones that got a lot of hair. Man, that, that's damn near kind of a, I don't want to say a cakewalk, but it is. You're like holy, this is so nice. Like yeah, them soft haired ones, you're like man, why can't they all be like this?

B (50:23)

Oh yeah.

C (50:24)

And then I mean like, you know, and then helping Tony where I guess I've, I've really kind of fine tuned and got in and, and been able to kind of home in on my craft has been with Tony because we're, you know, he, he sells a lot of them and a lot of them ones he sells are big time haired, yak haired. And so like you, you, you can see one change with each, each swap that you're taking off or what you're doing and it, as far as getting, getting more comfortable and doing a lot more and kind of homing in on it. Like ever since I've been with Tony I've, I've given a lot of credit to him for, for letting me, you know, build on my craft and kind of get it, get it to where I think it, it needs to be or where, where it should be, you know, but you know, like a clipping, clipping all of them. I mean you can't, can't just go down and clip every single one of them the same way. They're all different about like trimming feet. If you clip them all the same, I mean it's gonna hurt them. So like you gotta, before you clip one, you. I take a lot of pride and you know, I like to see them wet. I like to see where they're, where their strong points are, where a guy needs to really focus on to try to help build one in a certain part of them. But I think you know, just as far as clipping them and doing the things like once you finally clip a bunch of them and go through it a lot, you're not going to have to study them as much. But I think if you, if you can study them beforehand and before you clip them, that's only going to help, help you help the animal. You know. Like it's, I've been fortunate enough to, to help a lot of big time guys and work on a lot of them and, and do all those things and travel around the country and, and work on different, different types and kinds of animals. I think just being, being in it a long time and learning from the good the guys that are Good. And the people that they know that are good and they know, they see you around them and working with them, that only helps you and gives you a little more confidence of like, hey man, I, I can do this. Like I'm not just, just you know, throwing glue and just here to be here. You know, like these guys think, think something of you and they want you here working on their cattle and, and that, that, that means a lot to me and stuff. And so like it's just, it's a, I don't, I, I mean it's a. I really don't know how to say it. Kind of, I mean damn near dog eat dog world. Like, I mean you're what you put in, you're going to get out and if you can, you can put in the time and effort and take the, take the time and effort to learn how to do can be very rewarding. And it's, it's an awesome feeling to, to see one change after you're done with it. And then what you can make them look like it's, it's pretty unreal.

D (53:28)

Oh, absolutely. So now maybe kind of quickly go over like maybe kind of what's your process if you're working on one like by yourself? Because I know, I know I've done a bunch, I know a bunch will do a lot kind of on their own just clipping on one. So it's maybe a process of kind of jumping in and, and one has, hadn't been clipped yet, kind of going through it and just kind of getting it done.

C (53:45)

So like when I, I mean I always start, I start at their tail. I shave, you know, shave their tail and their tail and their ass. And then from there, depending on, you know, their hip, if they've got a nice good square hip in them and back leg in them. You know, sometimes I'll, I'll start and mow their hip down and then I'll, I'll carve, carve their hip into them and then I'll go down and hit their leg and then carve their leg and their ass in and make all that kind of flow together and make it all look like it's nothing's out of whack or place. And then after you get their hip and kind of all for me, after I get their hip and ass in kind of done, then I'll go up and I'll start on the top side of their shoulders on their blades and kind of work up to their neck, top side of their neck and blend that in. And then from There you've got your two highest points down already or your three highest points down already, top side of their neck, over their shoulders and then over their hip. And then from then all you're doing is blending it, making it as level and big as you can from there where a lot of guys, you know, they, they kind of want to, you see them messed up or whatever, though they might start directly in the center part of their back and, and if you take the center part of their back too tight to begin with, then the two ends of your highest points, it's just, it's hard to make all that blend and look right and flow together the way it needs to be. And you know, I know like, you know, some they, some you don't burn their back. If they've got a little sway in their back, you'll kind of clip them more like a heifer, you know, you'll burn their high points down but leave their back a little fuzzier just to make them look, take out that dip or whatever they got, you know, and then like working up towards their, their neck and everything and, and all that. When I start on their neck, I start at the point of their shoulder. I take the point of their shoulder down and I. And then I take the point of their chest down the two highest points of their front end, their point of their shoulder and their chest, take those down and then from there you're just blending all that in with, with the point of their chest and you don't want to, you don't want to burn, burn in between their chest and their point of their shoulder because then when you get back at that three quarter angle or kind of get off of them, it's just going to look like a big wave ran through there. You want all that smooth and nice neat and tidy. So when, once you get that, got that down, if they've got, you know, like a dewlap or a little throat, I'll take that down tight first and get that as tight as I can without changing the color or anything like that. Try to. And then from there you're just blending all that in and trying to tight kneady that up and try to make, you're taking out all their big points and trying to make those nice and tight and neat. But if you've got one that's a razor fronted and ain't got no, no chest, no, no throat or dlap or anything. And I try to, I try to bring out that attribute to them. Like if they've got something really, really Good. I try to help that and bring that out as much as possible because that's what's going to get an animal known coming back, you know, that's just going to set them apart. And so it's. It's different. Every single one of them's clipping them is different. Yeah, but, you know, like, the main gist of it, getting your high points and keeping everything blended up there through their front end and their front one third is very crucial just to make it all look like one piece, you know, like, you'll get into some of these shows and, you know, some of these judges comments will be, you know, this calf just looks a little piecey here and there. And if you've got one that's got good hair, you can hide and make all them pieces flow together and make one look like it's just smooth from head to tail. And if you can do that, I mean, you've got. You've got good things coming with you. I guess, you know, your chances of doing a little better, having success, are just kind of upped a little bit, you know, but as far as clipping on the, you know, and home in one end, it's, you know, like, the feet, they're all different. You got to clip one completely different, you know, like, if you've got one big sappy belly, well, you can burn that belly because you don't want to burn. You don't want to make them look sappy out in the ring. If you've got one that's a little tighter gutted, you just kind of tip the long hair and give them just a good shape and rib shape and go on with it. I mean, and you might. One might come in there, it might take you an hour and a half. One might take you three days. You know, it's just kind of one of them deals. But I'll damn sure say this. It's a lot of trial and error. I mean, lot of trial and error. I mean, I've. I've damn sure screwed more up than I've probably got right. But it's. It is a trial and error deal. And it's just one of those things people always, you know, they sit there and watch and they're like, man, I can't believe you can do this. And you know, yada, yada, it's cool watching, like, I mean, yeah, it's just like anything, if you want to be good at something, I mean, you got to do it a lot. And I've been fortunate enough to be able to clip on a lot and go around and, and. And get my craft honed in to. To being where it's. It's. I feel like pushing more of getting on that competitive, elite side of things. I still got a lot to learn and everything, but I feel like I'm starting to kind of bite it. Bite at their shoelaces a little bit. Like I'm. They know I'm sitting there biting at them, but I'm ready for a big bite. But it's, it's. It's. It's a cool deal. Like I, for me, one of the things I enjoy the most is clipping one and watching one change and, and trying to make one better. It's just, it's a cool feeling, I think, especially if you're. If you've been in it and you really like it and you've got a passion for. At watching one change and doing the things to help one. It's. It's pretty cool. Like I couldn't think of for me honestly, a cooler thing to do than to watch one. Watch one change. And then, you know, you, you follow it into the ring and does well and you know, it not necessarily gives you a chip on your shoulder, but you're just kind of like man, like that. That looks, you know, look good. Like I'm, I'm happy that, that everything worked out like the clip job. You know, everything just everything come together the way it needed to. That's a, That's a good feeling. Feels like that you've done your job and then people that you help, you know, they, they appreciate you more. You know, that that's what brings. Brings people back into. To wanting to. To deal with you more and as far as those things go.

D (60:26)

So whenever we start to round out this episode, I mean you do a lot. You stay busy. What kind of keeps you going every day, keeps you motivated? Maybe some favorite quotes or Bible verses or even some. Some favorite songs or something. Keep you dialed in in the clipping room or something. Because I know it can be. Get to be some long days.

C (60:42)

Yeah, clipping, I mean like is clipping. I mean I, I like to have music going. I mean if I. If there's music, not if there's not music going and there's a good, good crowd around you, I mean, that's just as good. Keeping, I think keeping the tension in the mood light is going to help help you stay comfortable. It does me anyways, you know, and then for like keep going every day. I mean I. My stepdad growing up instilled in me, work equals win. You know, the harder you work, the more you're going to win. The more you put into something, the more you're going to get out. And I've transitioned that not into just show world or trimming feet, but that's. To me, that's just life. Like, I mean, the more you put into something, the more you're going to get out of it, and the more you're something passionate about, and the more drive and effort and time and everything that you put in, you're going to get more out. It's going to repay you back. And for me to keep me going, like, I'm not at the top. I'm nowhere near close to top. I'm slowly struggling to get there, but I'm coming, I feel like. But just things that keep me motivated or. Or, you know, dealing with awesome people, having a good support group behind you and people that do good, you know, the families that love it and that want to keep going and they want to win just as bad as you do. And having the right connections and the right things to ask and people to ask those what help keep me going, you know, And I'm big on music, so I always got music going that. That keeps my mood light and keeps me going. But I'm very big on the work equals win. And, like, if I'm judging a show or anything, like, I'm not big on speeches, but the one thing that I leave everybody with is work equals win. The more you put in, the more time and effort you put into something, the more it's gonna repay you. And growing up like, it. It didn't really register at first when he started telling me that. And then after I won Odessa with that calf I bought from the cell barn, and I. I sat back and it took. It took me a couple years, but I sat back and remembered all of those things that we did with that calf. You know, I got up before school and washed him. I washed him after or rinsed him after school, brushed comb blue, did all the things, and, you know, practice showmanship all the time. Like that there showed me at a real young age that the more you do put into something, the more you're going to get out. And that had been instilled with me since I was 10 or 11 years old. And that's the one thing that I've carried on and continue and will forever, forever preach and tell people, you know, if they. They want to know something or what, what, like, y' all just kind of what keeps me going that's the first thing I say. And I feel like you, that's something you can't go wrong with because that's, that's something very true all within itself. Doesn't matter what you're doing, what, what you're going out doing. I mean, hell, if you, if you want to flip burgers at Burger King, more power to you. But, like, you can't just show up one day and start flipping them damn things. Like, you know, like, it takes some time and effort, and once you put time and effort into it, you might go from the cook to run in the damn place. So it's just one of those things that time and effort and consistency keep, keep a guy going and keep making. Make you feel like that you're, you're doing all the right things and you've got good things coming for you, right?

B (64:32)

Yes, sir. Well, so I did some reflecting. We did one of these episodes like 2023, 2024, and it was just. The whole thing was a mess. Like, like my end of stuff, like it hadn't figured out the podcasting thing yet or anything like that. And I, I simplicitly made the, the last question a little more easier and it just cooled. I was thinking back how it changed so much since then. But Kagan, what empowers you to be better than who you were before?

C (65:08)

And just for me, treating people right and doing the right things and staying on top of the things that, what are going to, what are going to help you in your business? Whatever you're doing, staying on top of the things and being truthful and staying true to people, giving them your word. And for me, that, that goes a long ways. Like, you know, if, if I tell you I'm gonna be there at 8:30, I'm probably gonna be there at 8:15 and just treating people right, keep keeping, keeping all the relationships very good and not having no hostility within them. For me, that, that's, that's helped. Helped my business tremendously. Is, is being straight up truth, Truthful, honest to people? I mean, yeah, I don't beat around the bush and I don't, I don't powder no one's puss. I'm gonna tell you straight up what I think. If you don't want to know my opinion, don't ask. And, but I think that does a lot for people and keeping people in good with people is being straight up honest, truthful, not, not giving them no run around, just being and being there for them when they need it. Like, if you, if you can Be truthful and you can be there when them people need it. And you're a helping hand and you're not bringing a bad attitude when then people want your help or ask for it. That, that just, that shows a lot about you and how you go about things. And then that's just easier for them to stay on board with you, to stay wanting to, to, to, to do business with you and for everything to all, all the, all the lines and everything. Nothing's ever crossed, you know. And I think another thing is what's big for me and what's helped my business and getting people in different families and yada, yada, is I love kids. Like, I, I'll help any kid that wants help do anything. Like, you know, and it's not just, just sitting there working on their cattle, you know, like, I'll go back and I'll play football with them. I'll, you know, like, if there's girls color in hell, I'll sit there and color with them, you know, just doing all the things, you know, and people, I didn't notice that at first, but like the parents and people, even surrounding people, they, they sit there and they, they watch and they pay attention more than people think. And then, you know, like, they, it'll come back and they'll be like, man, like, I want, I want that guy to help my kids. Like, I want him, you know, I want those people to help my kids. Those, those type of things that they do, I want them to bring to my people. And like, not only for one, that only helps you and your business, but then two, that that's going to help somebody else and you know, some other family or what they got going. But I think just staying tried and true, being straight up truthful, not giving anybody the run around and being there when you're gonna be there saying you're gonna be, you know, doing the things you say you're gonna do and staying truthful to your word, that goes a long ways. And that people always remember that that's gonna be one thing, that that's gonna stick with them. And that not only helps your business and everything, but that just shows exactly kind of what person you are and what you can bring to the table to help help them or guide them in any kind of direction that they want to go in.

B (68:39)

Absolutely. Yes, sir. Well, we usually end episode with a Bible verse. And today's scripture comes from John 11:25. It says, Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life and the one who believes in me even if he dies, will live. I guess something that I get out of that is as long as we have faith like you were talking about, and we stay true to who we are while representing him. Well, I think life's going to be pretty good, but you got to maintain that as well. You can't do it and then not abide by it.

C (69:16)

So with all this, be consistent about it. You got to be consistent about it. That's kind of anything. I mean, anything anybody's going to do if you're going to be good at it, you got to put the time and effort in, but got to be consistent.

B (69:27)

Absolutely. We truly appreciate having you on Kagan. No, it's the off season and such, but, God, something that I think me and Luke kind of strive to do is keep our episodes rolling out even if we're not in the season. And this really stays.

C (69:43)

There you go. There you go.

B (69:45)

So with all that said, we appreciate you.

C (69:48)

Yeah, I appreciate y'. All. Thank you all for. For getting me on and. And talking with me and everything like that. I really appreciate it.

B (69:55)

Yes, sir. Of course. With all this said, everyone, I don't.

C (69:59)

Know when the next one's gonna come.

B (70:00)

Out, but we'll keep you in tune. And if there is one welded, you'll see it on the top of your phone. So all I said, this is empowering you with Kegan, Jeffrey. We'll see you all next time.

C (70:11)

Make sure to check out our new.

A (70:12)

And improved website@empoweryou podcast.org where you'll find the team's background, our sponsor stories and merchandise. But also check out our social media on Facebook and Instagram @empowerupod, where you'll find sneak peeks of episodes and their release dates, as well as sponsor recognition and much more. We are proud to have you as a listener on and hope you enjoyed. Make sure to give us a five star rating and have a blessed day.