B (2:13)

Well, I appreciate that. To get started, what I'd like to know is where did you originate from? What allowed you to begin your journey in the industry and what came after that?

C (2:27)

You bet.

D (2:29)

I guess my Starting point in, in our industry was one that is maybe a little different than some.

C (2:36)

I was a product of the four H&FFA programs in the fact that my family had nothing to do with agriculture at all. My dad was a general contractor, my mom helped him in the business and uh, actually both of them had kind of their hobbies kind of more included sports.

D (2:53)

My dad was a really good basketball player growing up and. And so obviously when I was at.

C (2:58)

A younger age that was probably the crowd that I was introduced to originally. Uh, unfortunately for myself within my family I was not the one that was blessed with the most athletic ability. My. I have two brothers that were really athletic and.

D (3:12)

And so I guess a lot of.

C (3:16)

Your God given abilities dictate where you go in life and that wasn't my direction and it was pretty random. But my aunt and uncle, I had an older cousin that was a year older than me that started showing animals and they were in a 4H club and the leaders and everyone quit. My aunt and uncle who had nothing to do with ag at any form either just took on the responsibility of the general leaders there. To make a long story short, we.

D (3:44)

Ended up joining their, their club just for fun.

C (3:47)

And I showed a lamb the first year which wasn't maybe my favorite thing I ever did and it, it led into showing some pigs and really that.

D (3:57)

Kind of just sparked an interest for me in livestock and in general and it was something that I really enjoyed.

C (4:03)

And so it kind of just took off from there. But all of my, all the influences that I had at an early age were all stemmed from just a very basic level of, of getting involved in a 4H club locally. So.

B (4:17)

Awesome. So what led after that college wise and did you go to. I mean I don't know your background very well. So did you go to college and if so where? And then how did that help you set up for success for the future?

D (4:32)

You bet. Probably just a little bit more on that back side of the story leads into that our local area where I grew up, I grew up in California and, and locally it was a really strong agricultural area and a really good program there in the 4H and FFA levels kind of all in that surrounding counties there by Paso Robles. I grew up in Atascadero so there.

C (4:58)

Was a, they started a 4H judging program there and I just kind of stumbled across it. It just so happened that Clint Cummings had just gotten done with college at OSU after a real successful judging career. I know a lot of you probably are familiar with Clint from him judging a lot of sheep shows and stuff. And Clint started this program. I happened to go in the very first year and just judge kind of locally there in that. And we qualified for the team, and he was the coach.

D (5:28)

And it stemmed on into we.

C (5:31)

We ended up winning the state there.

D (5:32)

And went to nationals.

C (5:34)

And it kind of grew a passion for livestock judging. Um, then I was in FFA right about that time in high school. And my ag teacher, Al Durose, happened to be one of the more successful.

D (5:48)

Judging coaches probably in the country. He coached several national champion teams.

C (5:53)

They had a really strong program there. And so we. I was on that team, and we.

D (5:59)

Ended up winning the national contest that those coming years.

C (6:04)

And so livestock judging kind of really formed probably my first identity within this business and opened a lot of doors in networking on some of those traveling trips. Obviously, from what I alluded earlier, I had a very. I mean, nothing but an uphill climb in terms of my learning curve, because I really didn't know much about anything. And I just kind of was one of those people that got addicted to.

D (6:29)

It and fed off of it. And kind of anywhere I went, tried.

C (6:33)

To meet new people, and doors just kind of kept opening where I was just introduced to. To a lot of neat people in this industry that welcomed the fact that there was a young, hungry kid that.

D (6:44)

Wanted to learn something. And instead of not taking my phone.

C (6:47)

Calls and answered questions, and I kind of got involved at that point, maybe into the cattle side more. We showed pigs quite a bit. And then for some reason, somewhere along the lines, I. I got into the cattle side of things and really like the fitting. My parents at that time in my life were probably in their construction business.

D (7:09)

Things were a little tough around there, and they didn't have a lot of resources to provide everything for me. They were always very supportive in anything.

C (7:18)

I wanted to do, but financially and time, they were pretty committed to that.

D (7:23)

And trying to keep that business rolling. And so I ended up kind of going to jackpot shows with buddies and. And doing some of that instead of actually showing my own stuff and learned how to fit because that was the.

C (7:35)

Way I could go with them. And it kind of took off from there. I went to Steer Walt's clipping clinic, and he was awesome to me. Kind of made somebody that really wasn't very good at what they. I was doing at the time feel like I. I was good at it. I'll never forget.

D (7:53)

I probably think he probably tells every kid that goes through his clinics this at one point, but we were clipping.

C (7:59)

And he came over and he said.

D (8:01)

Something along the lines of your one.

C (8:02)

Mean underlying clipper, and I wish you lived a little closer so I could take you to the shows. And I'll never forget that moment. Like, it almost felt like, you know, he was a legend at the time and still is, obviously. But at that point, it, like, really just resonated with me, and it gave.

D (8:17)

Me some inspiration to keep doing it. And for whatever reason Kirk was always good at, I'd call him and he'd answer his calls and talk to me about stuff, and he kind of opened some doors for me to start fitting places. And really, that's kind of where it all took off from at that point. And in high school, right around that.

C (8:36)

Time, I was interested in all that stuff, and my grandfather gave me a loan for $7,500 to go buy some cows. And Clint Cummings was friends with Christy Collins at the time. And this was all right before they. The Northern Exposure or whatever that was.

D (8:53)

And she had a line on, like, 10 or 15 Meyer, 734 daughters. And I gave 7, 500 for him.

C (9:00)

And that kind of started my cow herd, which you can imagine how cheap that sounds at the time. It was kind of right before Meyer kind of got right, kind of got picked off. So I guess I'm rambling on a.

D (9:12)

Little bit, but that's the back side of my story, how it all started. And then obviously, you asked about college.

C (9:17)

And I probably liked livestock way more than I liked school, which kind of happened to be a problem at some times.

B (9:25)

Right.

C (9:26)

And so really, the thing that kept me going to college and really wanting to go on and pursue that was the opportunity to go judge livestock. And so I went to Modesto Junior College and was on a really competitive.

D (9:41)

Team for the west coast at the time. We had some really. Couple of the kids that were on my 4H judging team went there, and then Matt Leo also joined on that team, and we all had a pretty good run there.

C (9:57)

And then I went from there to Cal Poly. Clint Cummings ended up being the judging coach there. And at the last second, I decided to stay and go to school there, since he was the coach and he'd kind of invested in me at a young age. And so I went and judged there. So I guess that was the biggest. The biggest driving factor in going in college.

D (10:16)

And I think it really opened a lot of doors as we traveled and networked and.

C (10:22)

And got to know more people and other kids across the country that had, like, interest, because unlike, you Know, a lot of kids, I was on the west coast and it was pretty limited to the access she had to. To meeting people until I started getting into judging because we didn't show nationally or anything along those lines still.

B (10:42)

And so we're done with college or getting done with college. And you mentioned you had bought into those Myers cattle. And I would naturally assume that was kind of the foundation that started Rogers Livestock. What proceeded after that in terms of foundation donors and genetics that you were seeking after to build up your cow base?

C (11:05)

Yeah, I, um, I continued to just kind of try a few things here and there.

D (11:11)

A lot of it was more failure than it was success.

C (11:15)

Early on, um, I had one. Out of all those cows that I.

D (11:19)

Bought, there was one called her 104.

C (11:22)

And she was kind of the one that we identified in the group that was a generator and we flushed her and made some daughters and that.

D (11:31)

That was.

C (11:31)

It was good early on. Um, and she, she raised. That was back in the days with full flesh and things like that. And we, we raised some steers that.

D (11:41)

Went out of her and I kept several daughters and those kind of started the program. It was probably a little bit more entry level than what I was hoping for.

C (11:53)

So we kind of started sprinkling in some other cows here and there. I bought just like in all this prior, early on, until you really kind.

D (12:03)

Of establish some direction that you want.

C (12:04)

To go in and people that you work with. I just kind of.

D (12:08)

I was really into looking, so I'd look around a lot and I found a. A cow that was a. We called her 79G.

C (12:15)

She was a. She happened to be a Meyer 734 Cunha also. And she was probably the first one.

D (12:22)

That really jump started things for me. And somewhere right in that time frame.

C (12:28)

Kind of through some of the windows.

D (12:29)

That opened, Nick Ryman and Luke Doris.

C (12:33)

And I all became really good friends. And I guess I was a few years older than. Than them at the time. And they were at school at Oklahoma State working with Griswold quite a bit. And I guess I actually hired them. I was working for an Angus outfit here in California, the Danicuses.

D (12:58)

That was. We were going in to a lot of national shows. I was helping them get cattle ready.

C (13:04)

And I hired those two guys to go with me to Denver one year. They're friends of mine. After that trip, we all kind of.

D (13:12)

Became real close and it was a really fun trip.

C (13:16)

We actually had a bull that ended up being reserve grand there and he was, he was kind of unique because he was really, really hairy.

D (13:25)

Two year old.

C (13:25)

And so three young, inspiring steer jocks. That was a bunch of hair on an Angus bull.

D (13:32)

We had a blast kind of getting him ready.

C (13:35)

Long story short, that kind of opened up a door with Nick when he was first starting all his sales up there in South Dakota.

D (13:43)

And I know it's hard to kind of think about because all of us think of, you know, the story of Nick Ryman and all his success there.

C (13:51)

Kind of towards the end of his life. But when he first started, he basically just had a. Basically a commercial cow herd that he'd started. AI. And, and I remember having conversations with him and he said that one day that he was thinking about doing a pasture sale. And he said, do you think people will come all the way over here to my place from, you know, Westington Springs and stuff? Because it's about 45 minutes. He goes, you think they'll come this far west if I do a pasture sale? And I said, well, I mean, the only way you can do it is to find out. And he tried it that year. And obviously we all know what the.

D (14:33)

Story of Nick Ryman turned into. But I guess the reason I was.

C (14:36)

Going there is early on, you know, we were doing sales in California or selling in California, but Nick and Luke and I teamed up and there was kind of a big influx of families in California at the time that were probably willing to go a little harder than anywhere else in the country. And those guys, you know, we'd. They were out there kind of looking and I'd go back and we'd spend the summers in the early fall probably looking for stuff. But we initially, a lot of the.

D (15:09)

Bigger customers that they had stemmed out there on the west coast. And we all three kind of worked.

C (15:15)

Together with those families and some of.

D (15:18)

The really elite steers in the country.

C (15:21)

Like those families were buying and we were keeping them in the Midwest at.

D (15:25)

Those winter jackpots, and they were winning a lot of those and then going out to the West Coast. And I know a lot of people don't think about it this way, but.

C (15:32)

There was a time where the west.

D (15:33)

Coast had, you know, several of those.

C (15:36)

Families that were really, really competitive and it was kind of a jump start for everything. And in that, a lot of the upper end calves that I was raising, I started sending to Nick and we'd put them in his pasture sale. And so, yes, this is where it kind of comes full circle. Like 79G was.

D (15:55)

We sold a handful of those. They were like the sail toppers.

C (16:00)

Out of Heat wave in his pasture.

D (16:02)

Sale for a couple years.

C (16:04)

And they won like a bunch of shows in the Midwest, the Hoosier Beef Congress, A bunch of different stuff. And that kind of gave me a.

D (16:10)

Little bit of the first jump start to get kind of some of the better stuff going Was kind of the combination of all three of us working together.

C (16:18)

So that's kind of how it initially started.

B (16:22)

And so now what I want to ask you is, since that point in time, how has females in general changed in terms of how they generate and how they mate to sires now?

C (16:41)

Well, I think probably in my opinion, the biggest evolution in all of this from that time period till now really stems around in bro transfer.

D (16:51)

Obviously we were doing it at that point. I think this whole, this whole game.

C (16:58)

Has changed so much in the last 15 to 20 years now, you know, when at that point we're all conventionally flushing. So obviously we didn't have the opportunity to sex. Sex our matings. And when we, I. I feel like when we did that and it kind of turned into a game of that, and these cattle started bringing a lot more money on the top. This whole thing is kind of involved, evolved into a game where the upper end cattle are worth a lot.

D (17:35)

The, the middle to lower end cattle have lost their value.

C (17:39)

And I think that why I say all this is this, that, you know, back in the beginning, your cow herd.

D (17:47)

Really had to be pretty fundamental from the standpoint. They had to raise a lot of their own calves. They had to still have enough maternal strength to get it all done. And at the end of the day, your cow herd represented your total gross of income.

C (18:04)

Now we can buy recip cows and.

D (18:07)

We can swing for the fences, and.

C (18:09)

We can make matings that only make a female or only make a male.

D (18:12)

A male, depending on what we're trying to achieve. And in that, we've been able to.

C (18:17)

Get a lot more aggressive on the kind of cow that we're trying to generate a show steer with. Because, like it or not, they don't.

D (18:25)

Have to be as functional or, or productive.

C (18:29)

You know, if you've got a cow.

D (18:30)

That can't ever really, you know, maybe.

C (18:34)

Doesn'T always raise a calf on her.

D (18:36)

Own or do the things that are right, but can transmit the big pieces.

C (18:40)

You know, before you'd never get to.

D (18:41)

Make a calf good enough out of her because they just didn't get a start good enough.

C (18:44)

Now that we fun or we, you know, revolve around the embryo transfer side of things so much more. I think we all have become a.

D (18:51)

Lot more aggressive and with that, we've capitalized on the upper end value of those cattle.

C (18:58)

When we make them really elite, they're worth a lot more. So back in the day when the.

D (19:03)

Very best one was worth 20,000, you might not have had the, the ability.

C (19:08)

To generate enough income to support all the embryo transfer programs and the things that we do now. Now when you know the elite individuals bring from 50 to 100 or whatever that number looks like, it doesn't take.

D (19:22)

Near as many of those to, to pay for a program that's real aggressive.

C (19:25)

On embryo transfer and it all works a little more. So we've become more aggressive and likewise started to create females that are a.

D (19:33)

Lot more out there and on the edge that can, you can swing for the fences on what you're trying to do.

A (19:42)

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B (22:21)

For sure. With that said, I'd like to know maybe what's been some of your most memorable or beneficial females that you've invested in and maybe what have they done? You can list three to five, however many you want, but I figured that'd be a good topic of conversation to elaborate on.

C (22:42)

Sure. Probably the first one that comes to mind was a Cowie called 143. She was a mossy oak and she.

D (22:50)

She was responsible for, oh, six or seven state fair winners.

C (22:57)

There was a particular year that we.

D (22:59)

Sold a a heat wave out of her that ended up going it made.

C (23:07)

Its way to a family through Travis Shanks. This was right before the Shanks family started showing in Iowa and that steer won pretty much every jackpot show throughout the year.

D (23:17)

That year he didn't end up winning the state fair, but he was like, I think he ended up third buying.

C (23:24)

The champion reserve in class that day. Fast forward that. That cow the next year raised a bull that I sold part of to Wade. He was, we called him Blaze of Glory. He was a baldy bull and he, he basically something happened and he died.

D (23:43)

At the stud that year.

C (23:45)

He was very like well received and.

D (23:49)

It was kind of one of those points down points in life.

C (23:53)

We kind of felt like we had.

D (23:54)

All the momentum going and the bowl.

C (23:55)

Was really well received at Denver. We had a ton of pre orders on him and we basically only got.

D (24:00)

One collection of semen out of him.

C (24:04)

And so there wasn't a whole lot to go off of.

D (24:07)

But in a short period of time, just with that little bit, he, he ended up kind of raising some really good stuff and it kind of looked.

C (24:15)

Like he could have been one of.

D (24:17)

Those bulls that made a difference, just never got a chance to.

C (24:20)

But that cow was obviously really influential.

D (24:25)

For me. Kind of getting started put us on the map with a lot of those, those calves.

C (24:32)

So I'd say she was one of them then based. The reason I kind of brought that bull up is Todd Fair in California had a cow that he was flushing quite a bit called 902. She's raised a lot of stuff. Been really influential for his program.

D (24:51)

Um, I bought a couple bulls out of her.

C (24:54)

There's.

D (24:55)

He'd sold a lot of promotional bulls and steers that won.

C (24:58)

And we flushed her together. Cause I had some of that semen out of that Blaze of Glory bull.

D (25:03)

And it resulted in a cow named Brandy that Todd and I owned together.

C (25:07)

And she's been pretty relevant up to the last few years.

D (25:14)

She's raised several of them that have won state fairs and done a good job for both of our programs. So that cow is probably pretty influential along the way.

C (25:24)

I guess those would be the two that were the most memorable. I probably haven't really alluded to this, but obviously about nine years ago I.

D (25:34)

Moved from California to the Midwest. And a lot of good things have come out of that move. One of the bigger challenges is that.

C (25:42)

I ended up here in Missouri. And we have fescue grass here. And probably the emphasis of my whole program was based around raising them. Initially when I was in California and I got here.

D (25:54)

And there's just a lot of environmental challenges that were. That were tough. When we went to transition those cows, I ended up selling a lot of.

C (26:02)

Them that were in their older age because they weren't going to transition to fescue good.

D (26:06)

And kept embryo interest in them. I sold them to some different programs. And so it kind of really kind of restarted our whole, like raising and.

C (26:16)

Selling cattle that we raise. That part of our. Our business kind of changed quite a bit.

D (26:22)

We've had a lot of struggles in.

C (26:23)

Terms of getting cattle raised here. And for those of you that aren't.

D (26:29)

Familiar, like fescue has a endophyte toxin on it that when it.

C (26:34)

When cattle graze it, it increases their body temperature. So you can imagine on hairy club calf cattle how they respond to that. It lowers fertility and.

D (26:45)

And it's just kind of a challenge to get some of these elite steer calves raised in the summer months when they're on that.

C (26:53)

So we started putting in embryos a lot of different places.

D (26:55)

So it's kind of forced our hand maybe not to be as quite.

C (27:00)

Quite as aggressive on raising them as I was in California. And it's kind of been a bummer.

D (27:06)

For me because that's the part I have the most passion in. But it's a little harder to get some of these young cows rolling and figure out what's working here to. To know what you need to flush.

C (27:17)

So it's kind of slowed down the process maybe a little bit more than I like.

B (27:22)

Even with that said, I mean, you talk about the grass and how it increases their temperature. That's something I didn't know and I find that intriguing. But you've told or you said that you had to sell a couple or more to slim down things and kind of restart again. At what point in time was this and what did you do to get better from that point forward?

D (27:49)

Well, it's been nine years now exactly since we left California.

C (27:54)

And so what I did was a.

D (27:55)

Lot of those cows, those donors that were like on the, oh, the second part of their life or the later part of their life, we sold parts of them so we didn't have to relocate them. And then we were just putting embryos in out here and kind of in the right.

C (28:09)

In that timeline, I focused on a.

D (28:12)

Lot of those and creating some daughters on cows that were flushing.

C (28:16)

And what I tried to do was.

D (28:19)

Bring, you know, like cab those out here and have them, you know, environmentally.

C (28:27)

Used to these conditions, hoping that maybe that would help change a lot. I mean, there's a lot of things that you can do and from mowing pastures to putting out mineral, different kinds.

D (28:37)

Of mineral, a lot of things that can help as you go.

C (28:40)

But obviously, you know, if an animal's.

D (28:42)

Born in that environment and that's what they're used to, it's probably the best way to introduce them to it and.

C (28:46)

And make them thrive, you know, as.

D (28:48)

Good as they can.

C (28:50)

So we, we retained a bunch of daughters out of those cows and started up. But as you all know, that takes some time.

D (29:00)

Obviously, in this cow deal, it's not quick turnaround.

C (29:02)

So when you start from ground zero.

D (29:04)

Putting in embryos here, raising them, trying to identify which ones those are, getting them through the first two or three years of their life so they can be bred to stuff to find out what they can really do. It just takes some time.

C (29:15)

And, and, you know, out of that we've got a, a donor that's starting to work really good that we're using a bunch that's. We call her eight over 22. She's a, she's a general yellow jacket S4 and she. Two years ago now, her first steercaf hit the ring and we showed he was reserve grand at Georgia National. And then there's a couple of them this year that have gotten off to a good start.

D (29:46)

One that's in Georgia and one that the Cody family in Texas has. And that cow's like just now starting.

C (29:52)

To kind of hit her stride where we can find out, you know, what she's going to do. But it just takes a long time when you go that route. And so obviously we bought some, some other females along the way and introduced them.

D (30:03)

And it's just kind of been a slow process that I feel like starting to just now show some of its return.

B (30:09)

So it's definitely a long process, that's for sure. I was on the phone with someone last night and he'd said, you know, it takes a lot of patience in the club calf industry because it. You only necessarily get one shot every year on one cow to find out what that mating truly looks like. And then you compare it to like the show pig industry. You can try that sow out three different times in one year. And so maybe that's why the pig industry is so far ahead in terms of their differences. But I feel like, you know, club caf industry is definitely starting to catch up as time goes on. With that said, I kind of want to talk about promo bulls because that's a niche that you've been in for a while and have been real good at. So I kind of want to know your lineup of promo bulls that you have and how you invested or got into those bulls. I know like next man up, tricked out, chosen one, Red State are all bulls that you're involved with. And those are definitely a lot very sought after bulls in our market.

C (31:18)

Well, thanks, I feel like.

D (31:21)

So I kind of rolled into the promotional bull side of things just a little bit when I was in California. But mostly on that end it was we sold a couple of them to different guys. I sold a couple to Wade and then I sold a couple to Matt Lautner while I was out there raising stuff. And I just was always kind of.

C (31:44)

Infatuated with it a little bit. I love the genetic side of things and I love marketing and promotion and obviously getting to visit with breeders and talk about matings and stuff. So it kind of brings you full circle where you're not maybe as much of a competitor to breeders or buddies.

D (32:02)

Or whatever as much as you're like a team when you have a bull and you're trying to promote them and get, you know, some of the better cows bred to them and have those conversations. So it's, it's always been kind of a inner something I've been interested in.

C (32:16)

When I came back here and I told you some of the challenges we had from the standpoint of raising them initially. And know you're trying to get a new operation rolling and you're trying to be relevant and go into a new.

D (32:27)

Market, diversify, Diversifying some of those opportunities became something that I. I focused on. And so the bull market and being.

C (32:38)

Right back here in the heart of it all, where you could go and visit and talk to guys, it just.

D (32:43)

Kind of worked itself into something that I wanted to try. And I kind of always am looking for, you know, whatever when you're out and.

C (32:53)

And going. And I found Chosen one was the first one that I found up at Cropa's. I'm a big, big advocate that when.

D (33:03)

You'Re looking at these bulls and the, like, influence of a female. And so, like, everything that I've always.

C (33:08)

Tried to do, whether it's buying a.

D (33:09)

Donor cow or it's buying a sire or whatever it is, I focus a lot on the cow families first. And then if they have one that looks like he's got generating potential or looks unique, then I go forward with it. Instead of maybe just finding a calf that I like and going from there.

B (33:27)

Right.

C (33:28)

I kind of focus on guys programs.

D (33:30)

And I feel like, obviously, as you look into this and some of the guys that are the very best at.

C (33:36)

It, when you talk about Wade and Brandon Horn and guys like that, seems.

D (33:40)

Like, you know, where they've done the best job in getting these bulls rolling is, you know, they've got some elite females, obviously, that they're able to get those bulls started with or have access to them.

C (33:53)

And I think that's the king of all this as you go forward.

D (33:56)

And so this. This business on the bull side of things, I think is probably as challenging as it's ever been, because, let's face it, there's not a lot of cow numbers out there anymore. We've got guys, donor cows, and then you've got reset cow herds basically in a lot of places. And so back in the day, when.

C (34:18)

You could take 200 and some units to a farm up in South Dakota, and they'd bred a bunch of cows.

D (34:25)

And you got a chance to see which ones worked, it's just a lot.

C (34:28)

Harder to get a bull started now, in my opinion, because you've got to convince somebody to go flush their donor cow to them.

D (34:34)

So we need to have something that comes out of, you know, a line of cows or whatever that shows their generators, and they've got the ability to do it over and over again. And so that's what I've tried to focus on. Tricked out is probably one of my favorite bulls that I've had, and he's a. In my opinion, he's a bull that maybe hasn't got the chance that you hope for one to get on the few numbers that he's.

C (35:06)

He's raised.

D (35:07)

I've. I mean, we've fed a handful of them that I've really liked, and for the few cattle that have been out there, out of them, I think the bulls won quite a bit. Last year.

C (35:17)

He had granted Phoenix, and he had.

D (35:20)

Reserve granted Indiana, and he's had several of them be right in the mix at some tough shows. My daughter showed one two or three years ago that.

C (35:27)

At two years ago, I guess at.

D (35:29)

Denver, the last two that she showed, um, he was one of our favorite ones we've ever shown. But sometimes it just takes the right jumpstart to get them going and. And sometimes, you know, some of them are. Are bought, and then you never hear from them again that we're good. Kind of fall into those deep, dark.

C (35:45)

Holes where you don't know what happened to them. But my point in all this is that, like, that's a bull that I really have enjoyed. He's just a very good example of. Of how tough it is to get a bull started in this business, in.

D (35:59)

My opinion, and make them have longevity, because it just takes a few of the right things to get one going. And sometimes they hit that trajectory and. And sometimes they don't.

C (36:08)

And I think that's where, like, Wade's done an incredible job with a lot.

D (36:12)

Of his bulls throughout the years and.

C (36:14)

Has now got, you know, a few of those elite donors that he can prove him, and he's, you know, created.

D (36:21)

An opportunity based on that and to. To keep those, you know, rolling. And, you know, Brandon Horn, obviously, on the other side of the spectrum, has done the same thing.

C (36:33)

And it really takes, in my opinion.

D (36:35)

Getting these bulls started. It takes having cows that you believe in, that you can make in that first generation or that first year's mating, something go out and make an impact and, you know, talk and then earn the trust of guys to do the same.

C (36:50)

So, obviously, just like we talked about with these cows, it takes a long time to really get a bull figured out with the. With as long as it takes in this cattle business.

D (37:01)

And sometimes by the time you realize that they're actually making an impact, we've.

C (37:05)

Already moved on to something else.

B (37:06)

And.

C (37:06)

And you got to try to figure out how to reconvene and come back to it.

D (37:11)

So I think that's been a challenge as we've gone along on the, on the steer matings, on the bulls to raise steers.

C (37:21)

I've been really fortunate to have those.

D (37:24)

Bulls have a lot of success. You know, next man up is kind of a newer bull to the market and he's kind of doing the same thing. Slowly we're, we're finding out what he can do and trying to figure out how to plug him in in those spots. But it's a lot of fun to.

C (37:40)

Start to promote those bulls and work with guys and see how they, how they work.

D (37:44)

And you know, it's funny, like a.

C (37:46)

Lot of times in your mind exactly how one's going to work, you find out later that maybe that's not exactly what, where they work the best. And you got to kind of re.

D (37:54)

Regroup and move a different direction in the way you use them.

C (37:57)

And it just, it takes a little time.

D (38:00)

I think that's one of the challenges that we've come about within this business.

C (38:04)

You know, as we, we've started the embryo transfer side of things and making.

D (38:08)

That such a big focus. You know, what works continues to keep.

C (38:14)

Being used and repeated. You know, you look at the staying power of Here I Am and In God We Trust and it's really amazing.

D (38:22)

Like if you think about how old those bulls are and the impact they're.

C (38:25)

Still making and the majority of the.

D (38:27)

Cattle that are still being mated to.

C (38:30)

Those bulls, you know, how as an.

D (38:33)

Industry, do we make that jump and have faith in another one to give them a start and let them keep rolling and be progressive versus using something that you know as dominant at the time. And, and you know, how that looks for how we move forward versus, you know, what, where we go next. And so I don't know. I think the bull market's really interesting and it's a, it's a challenge in.

C (38:56)

Its own right, but it's, it's a.

D (38:58)

Lot of fun to watch those things.

C (39:00)

Go and, and see how you can get them going that direction.

B (39:04)

Yes sir.

C (39:05)

Here in the, in the last couple years we've kind of changed a little focus or, or I guess it's a product of just as you're hunting the.

D (39:14)

Next sire and trying to figure out what direction you want to go, a little of what I alluded to in those same bulls continually being the ones that we fall back to, it's a.

C (39:25)

Little hard to find something new as we search for out cross genetics or something that brings something new to the table. It's it's kind of hard to find that next piece.

D (39:35)

And so, um, we've actually invested in a couple main Andrew bulls that I've.

C (39:40)

Been really excited about. One for all. And he's got a son called that we call High Road that both. One for All's obviously done an incredible job here the last year or so.

D (39:50)

And this new son we're pretty pumped about, but trying to find some outcross genetics to work within the club calf.

C (39:57)

Industry or, or in that case, you know, the purebred main anjou market.

D (40:03)

You know, finding an outcross was to look into to another section of the industry that we can kind of bring.

C (40:09)

A different spin to.

D (40:10)

And.

C (40:11)

And one for all we kind of.

D (40:13)

Ran into with Boyart. He's out of an incredible cow too.

C (40:17)

And she was starting to make her.

D (40:19)

Mark on some of the daughters she sold and they had this bull out of them and kind of stumbled across them. So it just kind of seems like.

C (40:26)

It constantly evolves and you're always looking for something a little different to try to implement.

D (40:31)

So.

B (40:32)

Yeah, you just came out with that High Road bull, correct? Like just here recently.

C (40:37)

Yeah, he would have been this spring.

D (40:39)

We just kind of started promoting him, so.

A (40:45)

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B (43:22)

Well, I saw his picture and he's very intriguing, that's for sure. With that said, what I would like to know, getting off the topic of just the cattle operation, the steering has been very fun to watch here recently at the last couple shows. What I want to know is what has changed in the show steer market or show steering in your mind the last, let's say 10 years and what have you noticed differences, pros and cons?

C (44:03)

I just think it's continually evolved to get more and more competitive and as it's become more competitive, we've set our.

D (44:10)

Standard that much higher in terms of what we, our expectation level is for.

C (44:14)

The elite ones to come about.

D (44:17)

I think a lot of that's just.

C (44:18)

A product of what we've been talking about, you know, the difference in operations.

D (44:22)

AI and cows and versus being able to mass generate out of those elite producing cows. So you know, at one point it was a lot easier to, to recognize elite and have them stand out and in a crowd, you know, at a major show. And now it feels like when you go to a major show like a lot of times you leave and you, you don't feel like maybe, and maybe it's just as you look back into the past you only remember a handful of them. But it's harder to go to a show and leave where there's one that has just surfaced and dominated the field that everybody just all agrees on. I think the Other part of that is, is that people and managers of these cattle have gotten so much better when you think about their ability to present them and fit them. You know, I've got the opportunity right now that I work with Dave Geier all the time and we talk about this. You know, there was a point where, you know, in Dave's career and some of those guys that were equal to him in terms of their talent level, they could get a calf and they single handedly could turn him into one that was presented more dynamic and clipped and fit and all of the things. And they could kind of daylight a show. And now there's, I mean, you walk up to the makeup area and with all due respect, you'll see somebody that you don't even necessarily know who they are. And they've got this calf there that's presented incredibly. And you know, there's just so many young kids and, and people. The way that we've changed our fitting techniques and the, the way we can go about teaching these guys guys anymore, there's so many more people that are capable to present one on a high level that I think it makes the field a little bit closer if, if you will, the separation from a good one to an elite one, you know, in those weight classes that are really competitive, man, it's impressive when you get out there.

B (46:28)

Something else I want to ask you is this year's judging lineup. The judges at different shows, whether it's Texas majors or Denver Congress that's coming up, or even oie, for instance, what are, what do you think of the judging lineup this year? Is it exciting? Or do you think that it's starting to get a little more repetitive as compared to the last two years we've had, you know, several of the same judges come in the ring and judge shows. Do you think that we need to have a refresher here soon of some new faces, or do you think that we should kind of keep going in the circle of different judges at different shows that have been repetitive?

D (47:11)

Well, I think it's just like anything that we do, whether we're talking about.

C (47:15)

How we raise cattle or how we.

D (47:16)

Fit them or how we do anything. You know, we, we get stuck with what's comfortable, but we also have to be progressive and push forward and sometimes that's uncomfortable. I think it's great to give new people a chance. I'm a big advocate for giving some guys a chance that maybe come up the traditional way in terms of judging from a, you know, a collegiate standpoint that, you know, are more polished on their, in the, their delivery and presentation and how they talk. I think there's a great balance in all of it. And there's good, there's very talented people that come from every different aspect. But I do like, I get excited to show to guys that, you know, are in the trenches and, and see all sides of it, whether you're raising them, whether you're feeding them, if you're, you come from the judging side of things where you see it from a different perspective. But I try to be pretty open minded when you go to these shows. I mean, it's obviously a little nerve wracking when you've never shown to somebody and they step out there and judge a show. But I also think that we've got to let new people start so that we don't get redundant. And I think sometimes when new people come onto the scene and this is not in any way reflecting how I think other people do things, but they're hungry and they want to prove themselves and they want to try to do a really good job sometimes as we move on and people are asked to judge shows that have been doing it forever, maybe they don't have the same excitement level or their passion level isn't quite as high as it was at one point. And it, and you hate to stereotype anything because obviously there's incredible judges that come from all different walks of life and all different, you know, backgrounds and, and where they're at in their career. But I think that, you know, we, this business has put so much stress in terms of the level of cattle that are being sold and the what they cost that, you know, the judge always seems to be the focal point of making or breaking all those decisions we've all made all year. So it's, it's pretty stressful. But, but obviously, I mean, there's tons of new talent out there and it's neat to watch them come in and get a chance. And like I said, you know, a lot of times I feel like you hear the cliche that, you know, that guy knows too many people so it's not good for him to judge. Well, I'm kind of the opposite. Like, if they're not involved in our industry and they're not in the trenches and they don't know everybody, it's probably a little bit of a problem at times too. So let's get the guys that have passion for it, that raise them, that see all the different aspects of it and try to encourage them to get to judging some of these Shows, too. I'm calling out Brandon Horn.

B (50:05)

I think the topic of getting someone that's involved breeding, wise, knowing people and creating a name and success gets const. Gets controversial for bringing him in as a judge in the ring, because naturally, people would think that he's gonna pick his buddy that to win the show, or he's gonna pick a calf that he had maybe a part in or in some way, shape or form. But I think that we almost diminish the judge's abilities to be morally correct. Correct and ethically sane, if that makes sense. I think there's better people out there in a bigger number than there is people that shouldn't be in a ring or be involved in a ring in any way, shape, or form. I think that there's way too much discrimination and lack of confidence for people to understand that. We need to have more breeders and people who understand what goes into it and do it on a daily basis. I think we'd see more benefit out of that rather than bringing in people that maybe don't breed and maybe just trade and stuff like that, if that makes sense.

D (51:26)

I agree 100%, and I think probably a little bit of it. We need to reflect on ourselves, like, as people who show, we all tend to become pretty passionate for what we.

C (51:36)

Have at a show.

D (51:38)

And, you know, a big portion of the problem is, is that when you're at a show, you're in. You're really engulfed in the trenches, and sometimes you don't sit up there and watch a whole show, and you have personal biases for the cattle that you have there. But I think that we got to be better at not always trying to connect the dots of how whoever judged that show is connected to the calf that won and try to be better.

C (52:00)

About.

D (52:02)

Being honest with ourself and saying.

C (52:04)

Hey, you know, there's.

D (52:06)

There's a lot of different ways that this show could have shook out. And maybe that is what that guy likes. And, you know, what that calf does have. You know, he is pretty good. I've had the opportunity here to judge a little bit, and part of it was forced upon myself just so I wasn't feeling hypocritical, because I always said we needed to get guys that were involved. And then I'd get phone calls to judge, and I'd turn them down because I was worried about kind of some of the things you were talking about, just, you know, how it affects your business when you judge a show, if you upset people, if you do whatever. But at the end of the Day like you still. We've got to do them when we're called, and we got to go out there. And I think it's opened some perspective for me as I show to guys. You know, sometimes when you sit on the ringside, it doesn't always look exactly like it does when you're right out there in the middle of it. And what we try to do on the microphone when we talk about them is be very positive about everybody's cattle. But deep down inside, sometimes when you're out there in the middle of the ring, you don't like the options you have, but it's what you have, and you've got to be positive. And in this industry right now, I think that's the biggest thing that we need to do is start focusing more on being positive about things instead of trying to see the negative in it.

C (53:22)

And when you're judging a show, you.

D (53:23)

Got to let you know, you know that the input that goes into getting one of these animals in there. And so you try to make every one of those people leave the ring feeling positive about what they've got and understanding that there's lots of different ways to the right answer, and sometimes there's not the right one out there when you're judging. And so if you pulled a lot of these guys at the end of the day when they judge a show and they were totally honest with you, I think a lot of them would tell you that maybe the one they used wasn't just exactly what they were looking for when they came in that day, but he was the closest to what they could find. You know, it just. There's a lot of those situations that go on. So it's hard to be super judgmental of a guy that's judging a show if you're not honest with yourself about what was there in front of him.

B (54:08)

100% agreed, for sure. So with that said, what I'd to kind of slowly wrap up what's been some of the most fulfilling moments or memories that you've been able to accomplish.

D (54:24)

And that's hard because there's. There's so many of them on different levels. You know, it can be. A lot of it just has to do with who you're working with and what their goal is. You know, obviously you. It's easy to go to the ones that, you know, are some of the bigger wins. And now that my kids are showing, you know, obviously some of the ones that I've done with them are, you know, opportunities that I'll never forget. But I think that.

C (54:55)

It can be.

D (54:55)

Down to the littlest thing. Like you get maybe somebody that comes to, to your place that's hungry and maybe just getting started, and you just see the, the energy that they bring to the table. And maybe it's just a county fair that they're trying to win. And, you know, we all focus on these majors, but sometimes those littler wins mean more to those people than some of the big wins do to others. So I think that it just all depends on the person that you're working with at the time and how they react to it. I've got a chance here. Recently, my nephews have just started showing, and this summer I got to watch one of them win the state fair with a pig. And sometimes those first ones mean the most. And getting to watch, you know, family or, or people that have become like family and their, their emotional reaction to that, you know, sometimes is, Is pretty fulfilling. There's been a couple of them that, you know, were senior year bucket list type deals that everything kind of works out right.

B (55:56)

Right.

D (55:57)

You know, those ones are hard ones to forget throughout the years. So 100%.

B (56:03)

Now, what I'd like to ask is what is a favorite quote or Bible verse that kind of keeps you going or motivated?

D (56:14)

Oh, that's a tough one. I like quotes, and there's obviously lots of Bible verses that resonate.

C (56:22)

With me. But I happen to be in my.

D (56:24)

Office, and we've got it. I've got a quote that I've always really enjoyed, and it's hanging here in my office, and it's one by Woody Hayes, and it says it's the only thing even in this world are the number of hours in a day. The difference in winning or losing is what you do with those hours. And that one's always kind of resonated with me pretty hard because we all have the same opportunities. We all have the opportunity to better ourselves. And I think that how you take on each day dictates to how that transpires. So that one's been a favorite of mine.

B (57:01)

This is, this is the last question that I'd. That I'd ask you, and it's one that I've kept for a while, and everyone's different with their answer, and I think that's why it stuck around so long. But I'd like to know, like, what empowers you to be better than who you were before?

D (57:21)

That's a tough one. I mean, I think, I think there's a fine line sometimes too, in trying to decide, you know, we always push.

C (57:35)

To be better and.

D (57:35)

And at some point you gotta find the satisfaction in what you're doing daily. But I. I would say that my family and they probably inspire me. And, you know, as. As you raise kids and you watch them grow up, I think they probably end up teaching you more lessons than what you've maybe taught them. When it's all said and done, The impact they can have on you and watching them grow up and to be a young person that contributes and the accountability they can hold you to, I think sometimes is something that really keeps me going daily.

B (58:18)

So usually I try to end the episode out with a Bible verse. And I think that's important because I've said it before, I'll say it again, but I need to be reminded on a daily basis of why we do what we do. I think that's just important. Sometimes I can lose sight in why I do what I do or what motivates me truly, and why do I get to have the life that I have? And so this Bible verse for today comes from 1st Peter, 5, 6, 7, and it says, humble yourselves therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. And what I get out of that is, no matter what situation you're in, how stressed out you are, a situation that you don't think you need to be in or don't deserve to be in again, cast those anxieties. Like the verse says to the Lord, he's going to care for you, but he also gives you these challenges to help you regain focus. As to who do you need to lean on, I think that's important. I definitely needed to hear that, and I hope whoever is listening needed to hear that as well, because we all have stress or anxiety or challenges in some way, shape or form.

D (59:47)

Amen. That's an awesome verse. And I think, I mean, everybody has their own things. They've got hurdles they've got to accomplish. But I always think about the livestock world, how it can humble you quick and there's no higher highs or lower lows than it can bring for you on a daily basis. That can start in the morning and change by night. But I don't know that there's any other way I would have liked to have come up and I watch all these young people, including my kids and, and the kind of people that we're building through it, and obviously there's, you know, there's a lot of great people in this industry and, and I think that we've got so many great things going for us right now. And, and you know, I love the faith based opportunity that it provides for us. You go to these shows and the, the influential people, you know, sometimes we, we don't step out of our own backyard and think about what it can look like very often. But you know, and I, and because we all are so competitive, I think sometimes a little bit of the negative can come out in what we talk about. But big picture, this industry, there's no better way to raise our kids, our families. There's no better way for us to hold ourselves accountable by the people we've surrounded ourselves with. And you go to these stock shows and they start with pledge of allegiance and they start with the national anthem and they start with a prayer and there's not a lot of places that do that. And the foundation, all that's pretty impressive and special.

B (61:14)

I think, I think it needs to be just a necessity at every show. I don't, I'm not, I'm not saying that I've been to a show that hasn't done that, but I'm sure that there are some. And I, I wish that that was something that you had to do for every show. I think that's for sure needed. But with that said, I guess that kind of wraps up the episode. We talked about pretty much everything that I had listed down that I wanted to hear about. I think the main point that I really wanted to talk about was the Bulls because Bulls just intrigued me. They have for six years now. And I've been invested in knowing what Bulls do, what bulls do, what things. So I appreciate you investing in the platform and taking time out of your day to talk with me about Yalls operation and some knowledge that you've been able to capture over the your lifetime. And this will be empowering you with Mr. Blaine Rogers. We will see you all next time.

A (62:14)

Make sure to check out our website@empoweryou podcast.org where you'll find our team's story, sponsor highlights and merchandise. But also make sure to check out our social media on Facebook and Instagram at empowerupod to stay up to date on episode, sneak peeks and release releases, merchandise updates and sponsor announcements. We are proud to have you as a listener on and hope you gained more knowledge through us. Make sure to give us a five star rating and have a blessed day.