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- [00:01]
Host
All right, y' all have asked. We are going to give y' all the post game of the American Rural Steer Show. It is official and it is here. I got the opportunity to have Mr. Scott Shockey on here with us. He was the judge there. I'm gonna give a shout out to Brandon Callis because if it wasn't for him, this probably wouldn't have happened. He was the person that talked to Mr. Scott about doing it, and then he was able to give me his number. And so then after that, I got to talk to Mr. Shockey about it a couple weeks prior, and from the get go, he was all about it. Now we're here, we're going to do a little reflecting, we're going to talk.
- [00:42]
Scott Shockey
About the cattle, we're going to talk.
- [00:43]
Host
About a few other things. But with that said, Mr. Scott, if you want to introduce yourself just a little bit, after that, we'll kind of dive into this whole post game.
- [00:51]
Scott Shockey
All right? You bet, fellas. Yeah. Scott Shockey, Westmoreland, Kansas. I like to say it's right in the middle of America, but it's not quite. But it's pretty daggone close. It's actually. We live in a small town just north of Manhattan, so spent 32 years at Kansas State teaching and finally a couple years ago, retired. Now we're full time ranching. And several people ask, how is it being retired? It's a lot of work. I think I should have my real job back so I can go in and take a little nap, but. Right. And you know, Weston, you try to get a hold of me several times and. And just seems like just not enough hours in the day. And then I get in the house and I think one night she tried to call me, like at 9, and I was already asleep.
- [01:38]
Host
That's my fault.
- [01:39]
Scott Shockey
Guys. You'll get old someday. You just wait.
- [01:41]
Host
Yeah, we'll get old someday.
- [01:43]
Scott Shockey
That's right, someday.
- [01:45]
Host
Well, with this said, I want to know going into this deer show, whether it's weeks or months in advance, three things. How were you feeling? What were you expecting or your biggest expectation? And what was a goal that you set for yourself going into this.
- [02:06]
Scott Shockey
Feeling wise? Every show to me is the same big little. I get. I get highly motivated for every show. Excited. You know, of course, when you do the American Royal, and this is actually the fourth time I've judged the steer show there over the years, you kind of know what to expect. And more recently here, more recent years, I think I did it like five years ago. That show was Incredible. And since then, I've helped with the judging contest and so always get to see the steers the day after the show and the sales steers and the champions. And. And I know, I've noticed the last five years or so, this. This show has just continued to get better in terms of quality and depth, and so. So I have high expectations going into it, and it wasn't a disappointment once we got into it. So, you know, I. I guess so. I always feel like I told Shiloh when we were judging, this might have been the. One of the very few shows where a lot of times when you're judging, that one comes to the gate and in your mind you're just saying, game over. You know, that that's the one. And as the day went long, cattle came in. You know, we just. We just never felt like, in fact, we didn't even know until the end what was really going to happen because we were anxious to get all those division champions out there and the reserves, because it was just, you know, you just seem like. It seems like a majority of the shows that I've judged, there's just been that one amongst a crowd of really good ones, but that one just always stuck out. And I felt like we had two or three that kind of fit into that category and wasn't really sure which one was going to be our favorite till the smoke cleared that night. So what was the third question.
- [04:10]
Host
Your biggest goal that you set for yourself?
- [04:12]
Scott Shockey
Sure, sure. A couple of goals, and I'm sure we're going to get to one of them here later on. But the. The main goal, you know, is to try to pick the kind of cattle that I like, and I've done enough of them over the years. I feel like I'm fairly consistent. Of course, cattle have changed, but I like to. In this day and age, if we can make them, obviously muscular, compositionally correct, not too fat, especially this time of year, they can get a little stale, a little fat, obviously, try to have the look of a show steer, keep them sound. But one of our goals, both Shiloh and I was, as we kind of walked into that deal, we were hoping to be able to keep them fairly fresh and fairly youthful and like steers that were actually kind of look like they were targeted to this show and maybe not necessarily, you know, a leftover from a state fair or county fair this past summer. So. And I felt like in every division, our champions and even a couple of those reserves in that middle and heavy clearly fit, you know, our objective of trying to Keep them fairly fresh and fairly youthful.
- [05:25]
Luke
That's nice. I'm kind of curious. More so. Like, I know there's. It always hasn't been this ring. So how is maybe the rings in the. In their. Like the one you showed in versus the one now? And since this is the last year, they're doing it in this ring, maybe kind of, what are you expecting for the next one? And like, do you think maybe the variety of cabs will change or maybe a different type or kind that kind of might look better or present itself better in that new ring?
- [05:48]
Scott Shockey
You know, I don't. I haven't. I'm shameful. I. I drive by those new barns all the time, but I've never taken the time to go in and look. Now my understanding is it's set up an awful lot like the Nebraska State Fairgrounds at Grand island. And, and, yeah, you know, I think talking to Jackie McClaskey, she said. She said, well, you might have jumped the gun a little bit. I'm not 100% sure we're going to be there next year. And she said, if we are there, we'll have all the species in different barns, and then in the middle of that barn, we'll have a show ring for each of them. So we're not. They. They will not have the big coliseum done by next year. She said, that's. That's just kind of down the road and hopefully sooner than later. So. But, you know, you're right. That. That's a really good question. And, and honestly, those majors in, In Texas there, well, you can, you know, I remember, you know, doing Fort Worth several times in the. In the big arena and plowing through the dirt all day. And, and some of those cattle against that white wall can look really, really good. And then you get some of those other cattle that have a little, you know, different color to them. They kind of blend in. And lighting is a big factor in some of these arenas. So there's. There's all kinds of things that you really don't think about until you step into it and you're kind of in the middle of them, trying to decipher through it.
- [07:14]
Host
And before we kind of dive into the classes, I'd like to know what was it like judging with your son? I just want to ask that. Yeah, that had been awesome.
- [07:24]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, you bet. It's a huge thrill. And, you know, actually, both of our boys were there. My oldest son is the superintendent of the livestock show, and he's been doing that for, I don't know, five or six years now. And so to have him run around and really getting things organized, and that's a huge, huge day, you know, for the. For the majors down there, that's no big deal. But for the American Royal and record numbers again this year in terms of total entries in the Junior show, and he has to orchestrate all the pinning the two days before and try to keep everybody happy. And you know what it's like when you get to a major stock show. There's, you know, especially when you're stacked on top of one another, the tempers can flare, and, you know, everybody's patience gets a little short. But, you know, Shane does a really good job, and he's one of those unique people that can kind of simmer everybody's attitude just a little bit and kind of see the light and help them. And so it's good to have both of them there. Obviously, with Shane or Shiloh helping me in the ring, you know, He. He really has an incredible eye for livestock, and he sees him well. He. He. He told me, I. When I said, you want to help me? He said, yeah, but I don't really want to talk any classes. So I said, well, that's fine. I'll talk the classes. You just tell me how you like them, and we'll get to it. Okay. So it's. It's a lot of fun. It's.
- [08:51]
Host
It's.
- [08:51]
Scott Shockey
I think we see a lot more of that today. And the neat thing about it, to me, it kind of brings the idea of the family, you know, and really, that's what these Junior shows are about. It's still a family activity. And so to be able to judge what's part of your family member, that's. That's kind of cool. And, you know, I've judged other shows with people I've never known. Sometimes it works out. Most times, you can get a little frustrated with one another because, you know, we all have a different idea of really what we want, what's ideal, right. If you have somebody that's kind of on the other side of the equation, you know, they maybe think structure is way more important than muscle in a market show. Then there's. It gets. I don't know, it's just not as fun. So with Shiloh helping, he and I see him exactly the same. So there really was no discussion. We just. We were. The discussion we had was we would see the differences. It's just like, how do we weigh them out? You know, how do we. How do we decipher between the two up on top for a particular reason. So it was fun though. Big honor. Big honor. Yeah.
- [09:59]
Luke
That sounds like a great experience. I know I would love to judge a show of my dad one day. That, that sounds awesome. So I want to know, like in that ring, I know not all shows or kind of have different species going on at the same time. So does judging the steer show alongside the market goats and the market lambs at the same time, does that have any effect kind of on the show? Does it maybe slow it down a touch and you have to kind of have mics going on at different times?
- [10:22]
Scott Shockey
Oh, you know, for us, since we were the smaller show and I told Shiloh, you know, we weren't in a big hurry, we weren't pushed for time. One of the, I mean, it's kind of a double edged sword. It's nice that the only thing going on those two days was the junior show. So there wasn't activity of everything else going on. You know, something else going on that evening in the arena or whatever it might be. So, so we really weren't in a hurry. And if, and if Kyle or Griner was wanting to talk a class, we just, you know, we let them do their thing and then we would chip in after that. Obviously I slowed the show down with my little speech, but, but you know, that, that situation there was, was not bad. Now you probably, if you watch the show, there was a number of steers in there that had never seen a sheep or a goat before.
- [11:11]
Host
They can, they got a little spooked.
- [11:13]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, they, you know, they're watching, they're all cocked off and in some of them, I think it kind of affect the way they moved. You know, they get a little nervous in there. And so, so from that standpoint, it probably was a little more challenging for the, for the livestock. But you know, for us judging and the fact that we weren't in a big hurry, it didn't, it didn't bother us at all.
- [11:34]
Host
Well, I guess now we can dive into the show. So we start off with class one. What was your first impression of your class winner? The white one that was huge legged, big body, and had that young man in the black cap that was showing him.
- [11:51]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, you know, the, the gate opens and they start coming in and I think he was the last one, if I remember right. And, and you know, both Shiloh and I looked at each other and said, well, this is pretty simple. We got something to tie into because he, he really just kind of set the bar. You know, he was like, you Said he's for a stout and burly. As he looked at that weight, which it used to be that first class would weigh like a thousand to eleven hundred pounds. I don't know. I think they started out just a little short of 1300 this year. I don't remember what the weight was the first class, but to have one that was that stout. He also really motored good and. And it was nice because you kind of could. You could start the day out not apologizing that you're using one that maybe didn't have enough muscle or wasn't sound enough or whatever. You actually were able to use a steer that kind of kind of hit us pretty quick and pretty hard and pretty good. And that. That's kind of nice because it doesn't always happen that way in a show. You know, you. Sometimes that first class is just, oh, you're digging, you're searching. But he walked in and it's like. And it's a big. You know, you. When you judge these things, you. You always have that anticipation. It's a. It's a big relief because right off the bat, you feel really good about the first year. You get to start with in that first class.
- [13:09]
Host
Yep.
- [13:10]
Luke
And then you kind of get the Class 2 that comes in. Does that kind of follow the same type and kind. I know that that gold calf that won the class almost read almost like a more carcass cap higher could have been.
- [13:18]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, that. That class and Blake Nelson and we were talking about that after the show, and he's like, that class was more of what sometimes the first class is. There's eight or 10 to walk through the gate. And when they all came in there, I'm like, I'm not sure where we're going to start. You know, a lot of nice cl. Not a lot of nice cattle in there. But not just that one. That, you know, kind of did like, the first class winner did put it all together. So. But yeah, we were. Obviously, you're tickled for the young lady that had that next class winner, but I would say in some of the other classes, you know, he might have been lucky to be third or fourth in class. So just like always, it's a. It's a class break, and so it was a bit more of a struggle. And then after that, it really started to heat up. You know, class three was really good four.
- [14:10]
Host
So then we roll into class three, and from this point forward, I was actually able to watch the show in its entirety and actually listen to you talk from, like, Fourth to fourth to first. Those first two classes, I was kind of behind schedule. But starting class three, you had a third place as a solid white steer. You kind of said he was, you know, coarser about his shoulder, maybe a little coarser in his joint work and tighter for him. There was a second place that shorty and I, I saw the shorty walk in, I was like, man, that's a really cool looking one. From profile, there's real sound. But you said he was a little flatter. And then the first place was that smokey calf. And I think they said he, they, they put him in at like 1284 and you were like, he's the most complete in terms of balance and look. But of all three, there's still muscle. So we got to sort them off. The next priorities.
- [14:57]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And actually that, that roan steer, you know, he's just, he, he really didn't fit because he was about an inch or two taller and a rib or two longer than everything else. I don't know that he was, you know, I think because of his extra frame and, and he was a little flatter built, you know, wasn't, wasn't opened up quite as good at the ground and his rib cage wasn't as round. You know, there's little things and you throw that extra shot of frame and then he becomes kind of the outlier in the class. And you know, you can. Shiloh and I were like, well, you could start with them because he was incredibly good looking, really good built structure was spot on. But just for us, just not quite wolfy enough, just not quite enough punch. And so you throw that extra frame in there. And then he got a little flat for us. We, for the longest time, you know, we kind of bounced back and forth whether we put him second or the white steer. And, and, and I, I, you know, I think if we had 10 people judging that, it would be 50, 50 on which year goes second. So. And there'll be some people who want to start with the Roman steer and that's fine. He has some, he has some things that. Pretty tough to get around. Yeah.
- [16:18]
Luke
And then that, and then that fourth class comes in. I think that one offered quite a bit of diversity up in the top because I think that when that white one came in with that, that girl in the pink shirt, that thing's feet and legs were absolutely massive. Yeah, it's still flexible.
- [16:31]
Scott Shockey
So.
- [16:31]
Luke
And then that silver one second seemed pretty like fresh. Yeah, that was, that was a pretty cool class up Top.
- [16:37]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, he was, he was probably in that first division. Well, not probably. He was, he was the soundest year we had. Just really good and get out and go and. But, but honestly, you know, a little to me a little mature about his head and neck and then looks like one that we try to slip him into a weight that maybe didn't work quite as good for him. And then when we do that, in fact that was a little bit of the problem as we got into some of the middles. They're trying to stay out of the heavies. You take enough water out of them and they just get a little, little dry in their back, little flat bodied and we, and we lose their shape. It's interesting when you, when you get to work, look at them the next day and put them in a judging contest and you let them fill up on water. How much those cattle, when you hydrate them, how much those cattle will change. In fact, that white steer was one of them.
- [17:32]
Luke
Was that the one steer in the, in the reasons class over there?
- [17:34]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah. No, that was, that was the middleweight. Yeah, that makes sense.
- [17:42]
Luke
That makes more sense.
- [17:45]
Scott Shockey
Let's see. We. He was, he was the, in the non reasons class, we used him in there. They ended up putting him third. Yeah, yep, yep. Yeah. In fact those were all, those were all in that non regions class. Those were all out of the first. No, no, I'm telling you wrong. The steer they started with was reserve in that division and then the steer they put second was reserve in the middleweight.
- [18:13]
Luke
Right, right, right.
- [18:14]
Host
Yes sir.
- [18:15]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [18:15]
Luke
It was the Class 9 that was in the first class. That big white one.
- [18:19]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's another one. Yeah, that he, he really changed a bunch from show day and probably needed a lot more water. And then when we fill them up contest day, that guy's back shape, he still, you know, if you, if y' all handle him, he, he still didn't, he still didn't have enough shape. But, but the impression of him just by putting some water in him was sure a lot better than what it was show day. Yeah.
- [18:45]
Host
Well then you roll into class five and, and I remember you saying you're like all four in the top have structure issues.
- [18:53]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [18:54]
Host
And then I don't remember who was third, but your second place, he was like that black and white painted up calf, had a little white on his hip and stifled.
- [19:02]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:03]
Host
He runs uphill, you know, but it's just off his rear skeleton. We start to get a little leery. And then you said that first was probably the most powerful. From behind you were like, he's the est in terms of power and substance. So running through that class.
- [19:15]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. See that would be the steer they started with a non reasons class and big back, you know, big stout hip. You know, he's a little tight footed for me. Like from behind he just, he could, he could get just on the edge to swing him a little too much and but it's just, it's no different in any species of livestock. We put that extra shot of muscle and shape. It's pretty easy to tighten them up a little quicker too. And that's kind of what I see in that cap. And, and I like to, you know that that steer was a little lower fronted. You know, that's what I liked about the second place deer. I loved his. He was upheaded, just a little taller shouldered, hooked up probably a nickel better in his next shoulder junction than the calf that ended up beating him. But I tell you that that steer ended up second. It was, it was really all hooks back is where he, he got a little too short hip just a little too steep, I think in his joint work off his hind leg. He's a little ornery to show too. That didn't help him. And so just basically just, it was kind of that last third of his body that just kind of end up getting him beat.
- [20:23]
Luke
Huh?
- [20:23]
Scott Shockey
He's a nice cap though. He's fresh. That was a good pair. Yeah.
- [20:27]
Luke
And then you finish out the, the division one with the, the class three winner and then reserve it with the class five winner. Do you think that kind of set the, the tone for the next two divisions to come?
- [20:38]
Host
Yeah.
- [20:38]
Scott Shockey
What do you think of those? Yeah, because that little smoky steer, I mean I told Shiloh, I said he's probably going to look really tiny out there to the second to the other two divisions when he came back for the grand drive the next day and he did, but he still fit really the build and the image especially of the middleweight. So yeah, I think I thought the three champions really for the things we wanted to do, obviously we wanted to keep him muscular. Carcass had to be right in terms of fat and those three were fine. But rib cage keep them fresh looking, you know, keep their blades sitting them right. Sometimes they get these cattle too old, any animal too old, and blades opened up, thick neck, you know. And these, these three champions there I thought were really nice from the standpoint of staying pretty fresh in the way they were kind of built up through the front third of their body.
- [21:34]
Host
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- [21:39]
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Host
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Host
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Luke
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- [24:01]
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For more information about Reed Vessel Ranches, including their private treaty, cattle, sires, donors and upcoming sales, visit their website@reedveselranches.com so then you start D2 with Class 6 and you said on the mic this is where it starts to get deep. You had a broccol face in fifth and you said standing still, he could win the class. Then you had a smoke steer in fourth, kind of slicker haired. You'd said like not the wolfiest, but as mobile as any. Yeah. And then you had solid black ones in the top three.
- [24:35]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [24:36]
Host
And then you said they all had class leading pieces in all different areas. So explain that class to me.
- [24:42]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, it kind of ended up like that was a tough class. In fact, the steer that ended up winning that class, we used him in your judging class. He would have been a steer. We ended up putting fourth in the non regions class. And keep in mind to make that work, we kept him off feeding water that morning. So he kind of looked like a dried up minnow out there, I'd say in the judging class. But, but in that class he was kind of a nice combination of the next two. You know, he was a little more stuff to him, just a little denser made than the steer in second, little sounder than the steer in third. So a lot of times that happens. You know, he's not, he's not the one that everybody would gravitate towards. But if you're looking for, you know, a steer that kind of puts a lot of good things together, he was kind of one that did that for us. So he, he maybe wasn't as good looking as the second one or quite as, you know, stout as a third one or whatever it might be. But a nice combination of traits. Right.
- [25:40]
Luke
And then you get into Class 7, which I'm not thinking the top five, and that was so many different. That solid black one in fifth, that was maybe a shot courser, but kind of carcass. Right type of steer.
- [25:50]
Host
Yeah.
- [25:50]
Luke
Another black one in fourth. That was cool looking, super good haired, huge hipped at third, broccol face in third. Maybe he's a little edgy, kind of like in his knee I think you had said.
- [25:59]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [26:00]
Luke
Kind of his front foot and stuff.
- [26:01]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [26:01]
Luke
And that orange one second and then of course Kelton Arthur's that won the class. That was incredible.
- [26:07]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he came in the gate again, that was one of those deals where, you know, I said he'll one will hit you pretty quick. And he did. Excuse me. You know the thing that, and that was a good example in that class. That calf's really big body. He's, he's dense, he's got some stuff to him. He weighs up good. And, and they probably, I don't, I have no idea, you know, where he was at on real weight. But I would say his weight that he showed at was probably pretty close to his real weight compared to some others because there was cattle in there a lot bigger than him. And so it, it's one of those deals where as much as I, we really liked him coming in. You can also step back and if you start comparing him to cattle stand around him, he can get a little short. You know, he can be a rib shorter than the others. And, and so you don't, you know, you don't, you don't just say game over because you got bigger cattle to come. But that thing was incredible, you know, and the way he was presented, incredible hair. Like that thing was just amazing in the way they had put them together. And the boy does such a nice job and getting them presented. So it was. And you know, that orange steer, another pretty good example where I think if we can fill him up, that calf could look even better. He. He was, he had some pretty intriguing pieces to us. He was, he was a nice calf. He just, he was a little flatter haired. You know, he didn't have the, the wow factor to him maybe, but good steer, pretty basic, pretty fundamental.
- [27:47]
Host
Well, then you run into Class 8, and I remember you saying at the start of it, it's a huge class, but in the end, it's a two dog race.
- [27:54]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [27:55]
Host
Fifth, there was a solid black steer, and you were like, he's compositionally correct and cool from profile, just not enough. And then you said, fourth, that was a product oriented steer. He had kind of like a white tail and stout feature. And you just wanted to freshen him up.
- [28:08]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [28:09]
Host
Third, I have a quote you said. I think you said Shiloh had said this. If this thing was a breeding heifer, you better watch out. Yeah.
- [28:18]
Scott Shockey
He came to the game, he said, God dang, that thing can go. He said, too bad he ain't a she. And that's true. And that's a little unfair. I probably shouldn't have said that because he still had some, you know, he had some muscle to him, but. But just impeccable in his knee and his lower joints.
- [28:38]
Host
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then second, you were like. And that was another one that Kelton had showed. You were like, incredible pin set, huge feet and legs. And you mentioned, like, you know, Kelton works really hard to get that neck out of him. But you said compared to the first place, they just differ in terms of standing still. And that's where that Brockle face had the advantage. So walk me through, like, what you were thinking while that class was walking in.
- [29:06]
Scott Shockey
Well, that actually black and white. When he first came in, he hit me quick because he was so, so fresh. Like his ribbon was so fresh looking. He had that nice little cute head and, you know, a neck that looked like he'd just been kind of hammered right along for this show. A total idiot. To show that. That poor kid just fought him the whole time. And he, you know, he's not, he's not built right off his hind leg. And then you add to it that he, he's not built right upstairs in his head. So in other words, his brain, it really made, it made problems for us. The steer that ended up second, incredibly long. That one, you don't, you don't understand until you get behind him. That thing was an absolute wolf. His pins, I think of all the cattle we looked at that day, especially for his weight, that was the biggest one up in his pins and up high of any that we saw. And huge, huge legs. That was some serious lumber underneath them. That problem with that class, for whatever reason, every steer in there, when we parked them and headed them, you know, facing towards the out gate, not a one of them would stand still. And finally Shiloh said that. And the reason we do that is because of the webcam cameras that they want to be able to see them. And we were struggling because we really wanted to see them two cattle standing presented. You know, we could, we could tell on the move both of them had a little bit of an issue off both ends or either end. You know, the, the steering second. I didn't like him quite as well out of his shoulder and the other steer off his hind leg. So Shiloh said we got to spin them and fix face them the other way. And when we did that, then they actually stood still and we could see them. So we bring them back around. We thought, well, it's pretty easy. Black and white one, and then the black steer goes second. Well, we're sitting out there pulling the others in and, and we look up and the black steer, that boy has that thing on point. I mean, they finally got his head pulled up. That steer looks like a show steer. I told Shiloh, I said, we better walk these things again just to make sure we didn't overlook something. And so we walked him again. Again, he still, he still struggled a little too much out of his shoulder. And I think as, as that class wore on, that steer two that ended up second just became a little too shallow and hard bodied. And maybe it's because he was a nickel longer rib, you know, longer bodied, but that, you know, that 1520 minutes, however long we was in there, he just seemed to just kind of ring out and didn't hold together quite as good as the. As the black and white one.
- [31:50]
Luke
Right.
- [31:50]
Scott Shockey
Yep.
- [31:51]
Luke
And then we had that. That Class 9, which I know we already kind of went over that. That big white one that won the class a little bit already. Like, huge leg kind of was maybe kind of like you had said, like, expecting his back to be huge, but maybe it wasn't quite as fresh and. And square coming out as you thought, but, like, still plenty enough. And then you had mentioned that the. The solid black steer in second, like, standing steel. The show's over. Like, that cab got it. And I know you had mentioned, like, kind of like watching through a bunch of the show, you had brought up a lot about, like, the steers popping on their back angles.
- [32:19]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [32:19]
Luke
Like, I know you mentioned, like, how. How did you word it? If you. If we knew how to fix it, we wouldn't be in the ring right now.
- [32:27]
Scott Shockey
Yeah. Yeah, we would somebody be a billionaire. Because. Yeah, you know, it's. It's just. And we've had them. You know, when. When Shiloh was showing them, it just. Gosh dang it. Sometimes it seems like it just. It just came out of nowhere. Like, the steer would be fine. And you get to a show, and I don't know if it's a. An issue with nerves, it's an issue with the surfacer on. I talked to the owner, that steer afterwards, and he had said that we call it digital dermatitis. We would fight that some here, but he said he had something like that he thought was going on with that calf. And, you know, the first couple steps in the ring, he was snapping up his left ankle. And then for whatever reason, just about every step he took, it was his right ankle. And. And it's one of those deals where you feel so bad because that thing standing. I mean, it. It was game over. That thing was. Is. Was built as nice in terms of shape, length, look, you know, just really an incredible steer. But it's one of those deals. I told Shiloh, we were out there again, kind of banging our heads, like, what do we need to do? How can we do this? I said, look, we haven't bent that rule yet. Now's not the time to do it, because we also have that white steer that, you know, even though he probably needs a shot, more muscle, he's not light muscle.
- [33:56]
Host
And.
- [33:56]
Scott Shockey
And that guy. That steer could flap, get out and go. He might have been as mobile as anything that you know, we'd seen that day, so. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, it was one of those, again, that that's a deal where 10 people mark a card. Half of them start with the black one, half of them start with the white one. And you know what? Either way is fine. You know, it just depends on what, what your tolerance is for the white steer being a little mature and needs a little more back, or what's your tolerance for the ankle and the way that steer moved, you know, in the case of the black steer.
- [34:28]
Host
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:28]
Luke
I don't mean to cut you off for a quick question before you jump to the next class, but do you think, like, when they're popping their ankles like that, do you think it's like a structural setback issue or more just like an attractive, like, visual type issue? Because I know some people that, that say if they pop, but everything still sets right. When it sets, they're completely fine with it.
- [34:45]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah. I don't, I mean, I, I, I just. It's one of those deals. Here's the deal. I'm, I'm sitting here, I see it. It's obvious, right? Everybody that's watching the show, it's obvious. So you know what? Again, if you've said early on in the day that you will accept that it don't bother you, then rock right on. You use it. But if you've also talked throughout the day and like, we have, we were tough on structure, right. And there's a lot of them that were just, you know, right on the edge of being a little too steep, and they got beat, and it's like, we can't change the rules to the game now because we have a good steering here that can beat them and you can't. Again, I don't think it's right. I don't think you switch gears in the middle of the game, and that's what we would have been doing.
- [35:30]
Host
Yes, sir. Completely agreed.
- [35:32]
Scott Shockey
That owner. I said, you know what, if he would have snapped an ankle every six step seven, I'd probably say it ain't perfect, but he's so much better everywhere else. All look past it, but when it was every step, and the owner said, I know. He said, I know. He said it started three or four or five days ago whenever it was, and, and he understood it. And, but that's. Unfortunately, that's just part of it.
- [35:59]
Host
And so. That's a good question, Luke. Really good job there. Class 10 happens. And you talked about cattle being a little steeper, so they got to go down the line and that's where fifth and fourth landed for you. You were like they're both just a little steeper fronted. You said fifth was just not as mobile and fourth had the bigger, fresher top. And then third you were like lower shoulder, not very attractive from profile, but they're just kind of your meats and potatoes calf.
- [36:24]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [36:24]
Host
Second was that white and paint one that was really stout, featured big ribbed and. And you said something about how he progressed really deep back to his flank. But he was kind of a muscle concern. And then there you had, you had the yellow shirt girl, she had the solid black one that was like lights out from profile. Like that thing was super, super cool and super youthful.
- [36:46]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah. He probably, he, to me he probably just needed, he probably needed more fat. You get up on him, he's a little tighter hearted and we used him in the judging contest. He would have been in the reasons class. They probably, I think ended up putting him third. And you know, if you remember him from the profile with his flank not pulled, his body not pulled down, he gets pretty tubey and that's kind of what happened. You get him in there and that division, big enough frame, really long body, good looking, big pins, hind leg, nice. I mean there's a lot of good features to him but he got just a little big and racy and, and probably didn't balance out because the extra length that he had and probably not quite enough body to. To you know, I'll tack on.
- [37:38]
Host
Whoever did that fit job on his belly did a really good job.
- [37:42]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah. They. Everybody does a good job.
- [37:45]
Luke
Yeah, no kidding.
- [37:47]
Scott Shockey
Dang, them guys are good. That's like the steer, that one. You know, you always take pride in myself so I can look through that stuff. Stuff. That calf's hair was so dense. So I mean it's like, it's just like perfect clip job the way it was shaped up high and he had a big rib cage anyway, especially up high. And so he squared the back up really good. But it's one of those deals where I'm sure you take him to wash rack and you'd be like, well, looks a lot different wet than he does.
- [38:16]
Luke
Here, but it doesn't matter, I guess.
- [38:18]
Scott Shockey
Yeah. Such thick full hair. And you know, and for me, one way I've always felt like you could kind of see is to study a calf like through the plane of his shoulder, down low, his chest floor. And you know, for you all young guys, you don't like them big opened up chest cattle. But I'll guarantee you one thing. If they got some chest and they're opened up there and they got some width back in their pins, they're naturally got some width to them, right? You know those really flat bladed, narrow chested, pretty geeky necked ones. You can, you can do a lot with a nice coat of hair but there's probably just not enough stuff to them underneath it.
- [38:54]
Host
So then you have D2. The thing, the speech, all of it happens. But I'm going to request something. I want to talk about that whole situation at the end of this. So you had obviously Kelton's that won the, that won that drive and you had the black and white one. Why did you decide to go that way and what made you more drawn to Kelton's rather than the black and white one?
- [39:21]
Scott Shockey
By the time that division came back around the steer, that one just held together way better than the black and white one. The black and white. When he got out there he kind of lost his fill. Still fighting his hind leg, you know that, that calf, he had some issues with his feet and he'd get a little tangled footed underneath from behind and kind of base in there and bowed out in his ankles and it seemed like, you know, we, we honestly we didn't know until they came back out there. We weren't really sure which direction we was going to go. And kind of thinking back, you know, in that class that black and white was in, we took a lot of time. We kind of figured that that would be the two and we got him back out there. We didn't think those two look near as good as the one that we end up using that still we end up using. He just, he's just stayed perfect, you know in his shape and way. He was hooked up in his, you know, his shoulder, fore rib top. I mean just, you just couldn't poke a hole in where the other two I thought maybe kind of melted. And it was interesting too. Shiloh made this, this comment again. I'm not going to pick on the boy that showed that second place steer to the black and white one. But and I think part of it too that that steer was, has really, he was really rung out by the time he came back in for that, that drive. But he didn't look near as good as he did in class. And, and we're like, well I'm sure glad we, we did though. We did. You know, because it's in this. That's what happens. Those things can look really good for 10, 15, 20 minutes and then all of a sudden they lose their fill, they get tired, whatever it might be. They're starting to fight the halter. Things can go south pretty quick. And so I don't know, when we, we got them back out there, it just, we weren't really sure, but, boy, it seemed pretty obvious to us pretty quickly which one needed to win.
- [41:20]
Host
Yeah.
- [41:21]
Luke
So now before I jump into the Division 3, I kind of want to bring up. Do you like the competition and depth of the class make the winner of that class seem any different? Like, if you got one that comes out of an extremely tough class, does that calf maybe hit you a little better than one that might win a class? Like, way easy or maybe is it vice versa? Like, how does that kind of maybe affect, like, maybe going to a drive or championship?
- [41:42]
Scott Shockey
Yeah. So a lot of that depends on how you approach your show when you judge. If you're a person that judges a lot. By comparing. Yeah. Sometimes if you've got a really tough pair or tough trio, you won't appreciate how good that one is as compared to, you've got a one steer that's nice and then a bunch of others behind him that aren't very good. Then all of a sudden you're comparing, you're like, oh, he's a standout. Look at him, you know, and, and with the ones that are standing around him, yeah, he does look pretty good. Yeah. I judge with, in my mind what I want. I always taught students when I was coaching. You know, what we want to do in our mind, we have to have, you know, a vision of what the ideal market steer, breeding heifer, you know, market hog looks like. And then we find it and, and not so much comparison. We, we worried about comparison. We was given reasons. We didn't worry about it. We was trying to place a class. So, so for me, I don't know that it makes any difference, you know, a lot of times. And you have to really watch yourself, too, when you're judging a show. If you, if you make a comment, I always warn my students, if you're. And you make a comment and you say this pair can go either way, I'm going to tell you one thing. If you say it can go either way and you use that one for champion and you don't use that other than for reserve, you're kind of looking like an idiot. So that's another thing that you just got to be a little careful on what you say because you've already committed yourself that, you know, I, I could use this one. I could Use that one. So make sure if you use that one, you better use the other one. You know what I'm saying?
- [43:21]
Host
Yeah.
- [43:21]
Luke
I never even really thought about it like that, honestly. But that's a good point.
- [43:24]
Host
Very good point.
- [43:26]
Scott Shockey
So now moms will think about it. I'll guarantee it. Just ask them where she show grandmas.
- [43:36]
Host
Yeah, all of them get to it.
- [43:40]
Luke
So now you get into Class 11, which is the first class of the last division of the show. And I know like the winner of that class was ended up being the reserve of the show and maybe did you think kind of coming in after you picked your Division 2 champion thing, that one definitely had a big time. We had to play in the show and then having the Class 11 winner coming out of the next one. Are you willing to maybe give up maybe a little bit of freshness and maybe shape kind of in terms as you get into bigger cat, bigger cattle. Even though I know the, the 1:1 class 11 was pretty fresh as you said.
- [44:11]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, you know, well you, you would expect that. But honestly those two that won that division, I thought for that weight they were, they were quite fresh and that that's another steer that when he came to the gate, that one was as good as any at the ground feet perfect. Didn't roll out the surface, you know, I mean he didn't have any of those ankle issues from behind knee set back in him. Good. That, that thing I thought was a barnyard cat. The way he moved long to me a little more my style. I like a little extra frame. I like him to be just a nickel, you know, taller if he can, you know, composition wise that thing was lean and muscular. I, I think he'll kill really good. So I, I was a pretty big fan of him now you know, he wasn't, you know the, I think I mentioned this in the show. I'm not impressed with freaks. I think freaks have always gotten us in trouble over the years. So for some, some of the people he probably wasn't freaky enough headed and neck and that, that, that doesn't concern me at all. I thought that thing covered a lot of good basic traits that steered that weight needed to have. I, I, I liked him a lot for his, you know, his weight, his composition, his soundness. I thought he was quite nice.
- [45:29]
Host
And so then you got class 12 and I remember you saying on the mic of this class, of this weight size, there's really nothing too fat. In fourth you had a broccol he.
- [45:41]
Scott Shockey
Was showing on the rope halter.
- [45:43]
Host
You pointed that out you're like good design. That was a fresh, attractive steer. Probably had the structural advantage but just little narrower made flatter. Third was a white legged steer. You said he rocked a little more forward in his shoulder, probably a little more restricted off his front end. Then you had that red baldi and I thought he was just powerful big and square backed. From what it looked like, he had awesome presence. But you just like little flatter haired, coarser haired, hind leg was edgy. And then your solid black shirt that won that class just put all the good pieces together in the nice, nicest combination and package.
- [46:21]
Scott Shockey
Yeah. And especially mobile that cap was. That's kind of where he beat that red baldy was a he. That thing was a truck. Now that might have been, you know, if he used to say which were the top five biggest back ones in the show, he would be one of them by, by a landslide. That thing was cracked open like a market hog now and long. You know I, I, Shiloh and I, we did kind of disagree on that. I thought that steer kind of had some presence. He had a little attitude. He was kind of cocky looking. And the what, what hurt him was he had stale d, dull flat hair and not a very pretty hind leg. You know, I just again we like to get on as a judge with a little bit of ego and so I can look through the hair. It doesn't make any difference to me. Well also when I go with that backdrop, I want to be pretty proud of that thing. And he's just one of those, you know, in red cattle. Boy, when they have nice hair, nice winter coat hair, they're pretty cool. But boy, when they have summer coat hair, they're a little tough to look at. And that makes him look a little stale because Shiloh, he thought he was kind of stale and you know, and, and his hair coat was stale. It wasn't fresh. It wasn't but, but that thing, that thing was a truck full of muscle now. But the blacks to the beat him. He's just sound and again not near as muscular but enough muscle but just he could, he moved and body, his center body was a lot better probably than the red steer.
- [47:49]
Host
Yeah.
- [47:49]
Luke
Then you get in the 13 which in there was the like that white footed one that won the class. And you basically just said stand out. And the thing was huge footed, dense made and extremely flexible.
- [47:59]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [48:00]
Luke
And the one in second and say maybe it was a shot fresher but a little leery in motion.
- [48:04]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one actually, that one that won that class 13 we used him in the judging class. He would have been the winner in the regions class. We painted his feet.
- [48:14]
Luke
Okay. I do remember that.
- [48:16]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, they painted his.
- [48:19]
Luke
His show side, front leg, both back legs and I guess his belly as well.
- [48:23]
Scott Shockey
Yep, yep, yep. So funny. Well, we had to. We used them today, 4H contest. Okay. And we really hadn't planned on using them two days in a row. And that class, we wanted to make that class nice and you know, pretty straightforward. And you know, that steer, honestly, that was as true and as honest of a steer in terms of the day he looked at the show to every day afterwards. He just, I think the people that had him did a very nice job bringing him along and feeding him. He didn't change one bit at the show when we had him afterwards. You know, he was, he was sound, he was long, he was stout. Neither shawl or I could get past his head. And again, that might seem kind of silly in a steer show, but boy, he was bad headed, just ugly headed. And he probably needed to be a nickel softer bodied, you know, a little, A little more real rib depth maybe, but. But that was a good calf, I thought. A really nice calf. He. He would have been one of those that. In that division he clearly gets, you know, he gets multiple looks to get a piece of that division.
- [49:36]
Host
Well, then you go into Class 14 and this is where it starts to get deep for D3 at least. And I'll be honest, I was watching it and I saw that, that second place gold calf walk in and I was like, wow, that thing is just burly and dance.
- [49:53]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, Wolfie.
- [49:54]
Host
And then I saw the, the class winner of that solid black one. And I thought just like almost polar opposite, like just the cooler looking, more attractive kind. And then I said, well, I go log on to pulse and I see his pulse picture. I'm like, well, they didn't do him any justification because he looked awesome on video. But what was your thoughts going through that?
- [50:14]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, he's. And I told that boy that that steer was pouty. Like he, he didn't have presence to him. Like he wouldn't pull his neck up out of his shoulder. He just kind of powdered around with his head down. I don't know what that steer actually weighed. I would say they showed him up in weight than what he really is compared to everything. Standing around like that gold steer looked like he could put two of them black ones inside that gold one for sure. But he, again, the thing I liked about him, I would like to set his neck out of his blade a little differently, but he was very fresh. Finish was good. Nice hind leg. Enough muscle. You know, he kind of been fitting the mold we've been doing throughout the day as much as possible. The gold steer, he could just as easily want it again, probably just a little more mature in the crest of his neck and his head a little round in his pins. Like he wasn't quite as square built in his hip like that black one, but, but nice hind leg. Mobile, big bone, burly. You know, they're, they were both good cattle. Little different.
- [51:13]
Luke
And then you get in the 15 and then have old Chuck as the class winner.
- [51:18]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:20]
Host
And how did that conversation go with that girl?
- [51:22]
Scott Shockey
I probably shouldn't have. Yeah, I apologize. That little girl, I said I. Because I think she said his name was Radar. So I'm gonna call him Chuck. I don't think she knew what that meant. But boy, lord, he's, he did have a lot of Chuck. But, you know, that's one of them deals where, and I, I, I don't know. All them cattle were big, but that's the one that doesn't look like a big held over one that we're trying to keep weight down on. You know, a lot of them were big and drawn up and just. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what's interesting? And again, when I sometimes I don't get a lot of phone calls after the show, But I had a guy call me today, and he was thanking me in Shiloh, and, and he said, my daughter showed and, and she just, she had a great time. And I said, well, how'd you start doing? He said, well, he was last. I said, oh, I'm sorry. He said, no, that's fine. He said, actually, he was the last place steer in the heavyweight class. I said, oh, yeah. I said, shaolin. I remember him well because that thing was an absolute big, big beast, but incredibly sound, good looking, you know, he weighed, I don't remember what it was, 17 something. It seemed like. And looked like he could have weighed 19 and really looked really good at that weight. So anyway, it was, it was kind of an interesting phone call. He said my daughter had fun with him. That was, I think they raised that steer. And he'd done well in the jackpot shows and county fair, but she always wanted to go to American Royal. And so she wasn't disappointed being last. She was very appreciative of what Shiloh had told her. And, and, and so sometimes it, and I told that guy, I really appreciate you calling and thanking us because sometimes when you stand last in class, you don't call the judge and thank him, you know, so.
- [53:19]
Host
Yeah.
- [53:19]
Scott Shockey
But anyway, I remember that steer really well because we, we struggled on where do we put him? Because he had some things that several cattle ahead of him didn't have. But he was just. Even in Shiloh's world of buying fats at 1700 pounds, he was too big for him because he was, he was still pretty thin in terms of finish.
- [53:36]
Host
Right, right. Well, I think that's impressive for last class of the day. Heaviest set of cattle to still be, not just overwhelming in terms of fat. Yeah, yeah, I think that's impressive. I think that's, you know, something we should boast about her feeders to get them, get them right for the show.
- [53:54]
Scott Shockey
Yeah. And, and honestly, I told Shiloh, we got to talk. And Gorsha, that's every day he's, you know, he drives through thousands of cattle, he's estimating weights, and he's pretty good at it. And I said, you know what, if, if we would have had a big old tank of water out there, made every steer drink what he wanted before we weighed him, I would say 65% of that show, 70% of that show had been in the last two classes because those were big enough. They had stature, substance, you know, that, that weight game with water. There was a lot of nearly 1700 pound steers in that show. They just, they just didn't get. Showed it that way. So. But that's part of it.
- [54:42]
Host
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Luke
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Host
So then you got your D3 drive and you ended up going with that, that winner out of class 11.
- [57:26]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [57:27]
Host
And then you obviously have the winner out of class 14 in reserve. So yeah, talk to me about the differences that set them apart for y' all to make that decision.
- [57:37]
Scott Shockey
Well, I mean I, I just, I thought that one to one was pretty handily at that weight. I loved his structure, the fact that, you know, he could kind of pick his head up and have some presence. Again, maybe not the slickest jawed one out there, but, but nice. I, I just, I had a hard time really picking any big holes in him at that weight. You know, his classmate actually from afar, that thing had a big stout hind leg. He used it right big hip. But he was, he was another one that I felt like his better day was probably 60, 75 days ago because he was, he was shocking his hair, his, he, he really had lost his top shape. He was loose heighted. He just, he was not a real pleasant steer when you got your hands on. But boy, standing out, you know, looking at him head to tail, a person could just as easily use that second place steer to the champion as. As reserve in that division, too, because he had some. He has some really good pieces to him.
- [58:37]
Host
Yes.
- [58:37]
Scott Shockey
Just a nickel sale for us.
- [58:39]
Host
Yeah. Well, now we're into the grand drive. And what I think's intriguing or. Or honestly, this is just fun for me, but looking at pulse calf that wins, it's a here I am cap that reserves it is how great thou art. I think that's cool for those two to be intertwined in terms of genetics and then both end up in the in grand and reserve spot. But what I want you to talk to me about is the grand drive happens. What are you thinking? What are you feeling? What is the mojo like?
- [59:14]
Scott Shockey
We really had no clue. I mean, we talked about the night after the, you know, the first night when the show was over, and. And we're like, man, I. I don't know. And. And I said, well, we'll figure it out when they get out there. And obviously we did. But I would say the one thing that. That I really liked, you know, not always. Do the cattle look as good the second day as they did the first day? Well, I think. I think all six of them steers look way better the second day than they did the first day. And I'm sure part of it is because we don't worry about the weight game like we did on day one. But boy, those, those. Those kids had them ready. You know, they look good. They were. They were dialed in as far as the way they were presented and shown. And so the only thing that I guess they kind of warned me, but I didn't realize it was going to happen so fast. They said, we're going to bring the steers in last, but you're going to be the first to pick the champion. I didn't know he was only going to have two minutes to look at him. And so they brought the steers in and Shane made a few comments. My son Shane, and then he hand me the mic. He said, we need a champion. I'm like, I'd like to kind of take a look at him. So I told Shiloh, I said, hey, while I'm sitting here kind of blabbing away on the miclet, why don't you walk them things and kind of figure out what we need to do? So I kind of put Shuttle in charge of. Of taking a look at him. And, you know, we got him. When we got him spun around and. And heading out there. That. That one that ends up winning. His. Just his presence. I thought it was just way too hard to get around him, you know, he. He was the show steer. He had them. Them freaking ears. I mean, them big, big ears that lay forward. And, I mean, he just. There was just an air about him, an arrogance or whatever you want to call it, that just kind of made it pretty obvious he needed to win, in our opinion, right?
- [61:03]
Host
Yes, sir. Well, you picked your champion.
- [61:08]
Scott Shockey
All is done.
- [61:11]
Host
Now the good part happens. And I think this is what everybody has been blowing up my phone about. You said you had another goal that you said we'd get to later, and I have a feeling that it was about this. This speech.
- [61:25]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [61:26]
Host
I'll be honest. When Showtimes released that on Facebook, I watched it about three times, and every time, I gained more notes off my phone every time I watched it. I also had a couple conversations with people. I. I think, Mr. Shockey, I don't realize. I don't think maybe necessarily you realize the impact that it had on all of us. I thought Mark Hogue's speech for the grand drive at the Fort Worth Stock show and Rodeo was really, really good, but for you to do that in Division 2 just kind of hit me like a freight train. And I turned it up as loud as I could on a speaker while I was washing calves. And. And I just sat there and stopped what I was doing. And my. My boss was like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm listening to this. I'm listening to this. I got. I gotta listen to this. But I mean, talk to me. Why, for one, you wanted to do that? Why? It was a goal, and then we'll go from there.
- [62:28]
Scott Shockey
Oh, I'm just. I just. It's kind of like, you get to a point, and I've told people I've been doing this for a long time. You know, if I judge another steer show, great. If I don't, that's fine. I've done about all of them. I normally would never, ever when I was young. In fact, people have called me that, have shown under me for 40 years. And, like, you never would have done that when you're young. I know, because I hadn't earned my stripes. And I don't know that I don't want to say that I have earned my stripes now, but it's different because when you're younger, you know, for me, I was always focused on my job. That was to get in there, pick the best ones, get out. And I never address things that would maybe bother me. I never. I never really wanted to get involved with that. And. And I've been to enough Show. Again, I don't go to a lot of shows, quite honestly. I hate to go watch a show. I. The only way I like to be at a show is if maybe, you know, we're showing something in it or I'm judging, but just to go watch a show, I have. I got other stuff to do, so. But it seems like the last few shows I've been to in probably the Kansas State Fair was the icing on the cake. We had four of the very best judges at that show. They all did an exceptionally good job. And the belly ache and the complaining, the, you know, the trying to call out politics. And I just, I'm like, people listen to what they're saying and I kind of understand a little bit of the frustration. People ask me, well, how did you write that speech? You know what, Honestly, I told Shiloh a couple days before, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do it when we have a big captive audience. And it's probably going to be at Division 2 because that's normally when everybody's there to watch. And I said, I don't know exactly what I'm going to say. And I didn't. It's just one of those deals I had. I had a lot of things going through my mind for that week I wanted to say, but I also felt like I need to probably keep it tone down. It's still a family show and, you know, there. It's just. There's some things that hit some. Some of my nerves, I guess, but it's just gotten to the point. And I guess going back to what I. I understand a little bit of everybody's frustrations and I shared it with you in the speech. We don't have a target. We don't have something where we. We used to sit down years ago and say, okay, the ideal steer needs to weigh this, needs to have this amount of fat, needs to look like this. We. We don't have that today. And certainly. And. And again, the hog guys, whatever. Who in the God's green earth would have thought the two most important traits in a hog show is bone and hair? So. Right. I can see why people get frustrated because the next judge might find bone in here. Like, if I was to judge a hog show, I'd give them things to gate. I can find them kind of hogs down in South Florida, South Georgia. I want a hog that's custom shape and got some look. And I could care less about the bone and hair. So again, it's a bit of a Frustration, because every judge has an idea of what they like. Every owner has an idea what they like, and too many times they don't coincide with one another. And I get that. So one of the things, I think it's our responsibility as judges to make really sure we accurately describe the livestock. And I didn't really mention it because I probably should have. I've always felt like when I get done with the show and I said something about your animal, and you don't exactly understand what I said or didn't know what I mean, come see me. We'll talk about it. We can be adults and talk about it. Now, don't come up to me and start complaining because you didn't like my champion, because you know what? Who's to say my champion wasn't the right one? Your champion is right. That's a bad argument. I don't know that we can make that argument. So one of the things I think we all need to do when we judge shows is to make really sure we keep it simple. Language, terminology, simple that everybody understands and be dead on accurate, because now they can't argue, you know, and. And that's what I tried. That's one of the reasons I did that show like I did. Leave three or four out there with no placing because it makes you listen to what I said about that animal too many times. When you're talking a class, you're already halfway out the ring and you're still talking the second steer in the lineup, you know, so.
- [67:00]
Host
Yes, sir.
- [67:02]
Scott Shockey
But anyway, it was just a. It was a culmination of a lot of thoughts going through my mind watching a lot of parents act younger than their kids. And to me, it was just one of those things where I think we needed to address it. And I've told several people I planted the seed. We'll see who listens, we'll see who cares. And maybe the next show, they'll work on it. They'll try to be better. And honestly, I think these things that I probably were talking about is a very, very small population of the people. Most of us still like going to a show because it's a family activity. You know, we like to compete, but we also know we're not always going to win. That's fine. That's probably not our goal. It just seems to be a very small group of people that, you know, that seem to be a little more boisterous. And I think today, you know, I was talking to a couple older breeders tonight, had called me, actually, and we got to Talking about. And. And we all agree that this has been around forever. The difference is today, social media, everybody's got a phone, everybody's got a computer, and we get on the. You know, we get on our little war path, and we start, you know, spreading rumors about things that just simply aren't true. And it's just too bad. I think, about watching our state fair and the way some of the parents act. And I sit there, I'm thinking, I wonder what their kids are thinking if my dad did that. And of course, my dad, he farms. He hardly ever came to the show because he kind of thought it was just for fun anyway. And he just calls it a beauty contest. It was never his deal, but I always thought if my dad acted like that, I would be embarrassed. And I can't imagine what some of these kids are thinking when their parents are just acting like, you know, little bitty kids throwing a fit. So.
- [69:03]
Host
Yes, sir. Well, I'm going to attack on something that I kind of took from the show. You. One thing that stood out to me the most was when you said your livestock represent not what the industry is after. Then you said, why do we do it? It's for the kids, and they use the livestock as a tool to develop them. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna make a statement here to come after judges, whether it's social media or another podcast or talking to people in person about it. Those judges were picked to judge the show because they were on a list, because people value their opinion. So I think coming after those judges is awfully wrong. If you were asked to judge the show, then it's your opinion. Then it's your ability to sort those cattle or whatever it is you're judging. If it's their opinion, then it's their opinion. Yeah, but they weren't asked to judge the show, so does their opinion matter? Absolutely not.
- [70:11]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [70:11]
Host
The people's job, outside of the judge is to bring the type and kind of livestock to the judge that they think the judge likes. Yeah, that's my take on it. Also. I've had people reach out to me saying, well, on these post games, why didn't you ask the judge if this was political or if this was political or why did you pick your friend's calf to win the show? I'm just gonna say this. If I asked you, Scott, if this was political, if this was, would you ever want to talk to me again?
- [70:44]
Scott Shockey
Well, probably not.
- [70:47]
Host
Absolutely not. And I think every judge in the livestock industry would completely lose respect for anyone that did that. So I'm just speaking volumes to the people that listen to this. Let's not be bashful. Let's not be hateful. If your livestock, whatever it is, didn't win and you were second or you were razor close to getting reserve, be grateful that you were up there at the top, and then if you weren't and you were down there in the class, listen to the judge or listen to your breeder or listen to a mentor and learn how to get better.
- [71:22]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [71:23]
Host
Rather than exploiting your anger and all these certain things. That's my take on it.
- [71:29]
Scott Shockey
Yeah.
- [71:30]
Host
And I think you really hit the point on it, and I think that spoke to me in a lot of ways. And I just. Man, that speech was awesome, and it's getting me goosebumps. I'm talking about it. But Luke can add on to it. I know he's got some thoughts about it, but that's my take on it.
- [71:45]
Scott Shockey
Yeah. No, you're exactly right. And, you know, we're at a stage, whatever reason, somebody has to take the blame. And it's really hard. If I fed the animal, if I own the animal, if I picked out the animal, I bred the animal, it's really hard for me to take the blame. It's a lot easier to blame the person that's judging, you know, and. And I get that, you know, and I've heard I've been called political. I've. I've. I mean, when you do it for 43 years, you're going to hear it all. And that's. You know what? We live in a country where it's freedom of speech. We. We can say what we want. But I have also found, and I've talked to some of these people that do well under me, and they know you better be better and then way better than everybody else, because you've had a lot of success under me. And my friends that show under me, they know the same thing. They probably are not going to get the extra look that they deserve, because there is a side of every judge that has a conscience. Believe it or not, people don't believe it, but believe it or not, judges have a conscience. And if your friends are showing underneath you, chances are you're probably not going to win for most judges. So the reason some of those people do well under me all the time is because they pay attention, they know what I like, and as long as I'm consistent, it's like, you know, everybody. And I use Scott Griner as a great example. He. It is predictable. We know what Scott Griner likes. And so particularly for the majors down there, they love it when they know Griner's judging because know this is what we're going to get for him. And, and so people that do well under certain judges all the time is because they pay attention and, and they find and feed one that fits that judge. And you, you mentioned that. So it's not politics.
- [73:34]
Host
Yes, sir.
- [73:36]
Luke
Yeah, I, I agree with that. And I love how you brought up the. A little bit of the social media side of it earlier, because I know me and Weston, I'm sure anybody that is somewhat related to the livestock industry has seen plenty of posts on Facebook or wherever, just, just hating and bashing. No matter, no matter where it was, whether it was a class or somebody doing stuff to animals. I just think that that's so wrong. Like, these people do it. Like, I don't think a judge is ever going into a show trying to, trying to. Screwing it up and trying to piss people off. Like, no, almost like, I don't think that's right.
- [74:06]
Scott Shockey
No. And you mentioned this earlier, that people are put on a list to judge shows. Well, I'll guarantee you one thing, especially down in your country, when I was young, there was people that would come watch me judge from the state of Texas, judge, Indiana State Fair, wherever they would make a trip to watch, and you're under surveillance for a year or two, then they invite you down to judge a prospect shows. You know, in a lot of states are like that. A lot of states that there is a group of people, they communicate amongst one another. You know, they, they know that, you know, a lot of people want to judge shows. They think, well, it's a click, whatever you want to call it. No, actually, if you do a good job and, and people realize that you're, you have integrity and you're doing it the right way and you're, you know, all those things, it doesn't take long. You're doing them all. And so I don't think very, you know, especially at the big shows, most of those people that are judging them things, they're highly qualified because they've done, they've done 252 county fairs, and each county fair gives them a hamburger, a Coke, and maybe a piece of apple pie and ice cream on it for payment, you know, so. Right. You pay your dues and. Yeah, and that's important. Very important.
- [75:30]
Host
Well, with all this said, Scott, I truly think that what you said in that D2 drive was very much needed. And I'll be really honest These calls or anything that I was talking about that I've gotten, trying to force me to ask questions that I don't need to ask. It's been happening for quite some time. So for you to say that speech really hit me with what I stand on this platform. So I respect what you did and I'm sure there's a lot of people that did as well. But the biggest thing that I can promote is this bashing on Facebook or this bashing on social media or another podcast or whatever it is you do. It's just gotta stop. I mean, I think that's what's really killing the industry the most because there's also kids on social media and you got to realize that and they follow you and they watch you.
- [76:26]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah.
- [76:27]
Host
These kids look up to so many people and so when they make stuff like that, it influences them to think another way.
- [76:33]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's.
- [76:37]
Host
Yeah.
- [76:38]
Scott Shockey
Kids are very impressionable at a very young age. And, and, but you know what else? We all know this kids know right from wrong. And, and, and I, I just, you know, like I said, I, I hope, I know it's not going to fix it, but I hope it's a start. And I hope we remind each other when we're at a show and you see somebody that's really upset and they're throwing paint cans across the floor, he's just like, settle down. You know, it's just a cow show. And guess what? You can go to another one tomorrow for the next day and maybe you'll have better luck. So.
- [77:17]
Host
Well, this is a question that was requested by a friend that's pretty close to you, but he told me to ask to end it out. Do you think that it's ever possible to get back into a place where a show ring can relate to the commercial sector ever again?
- [77:33]
Scott Shockey
Oh, boy. Well, yeah, probably. Um, I'm going to say it's going to start happening from the breeding side because me personally, I have a hard time raising the kind of breeding heifers that need to win a banner. If I take some of them big bellied, geek necked meatless heifers and kick them out here on a stock field through the winter, they probably won't survive. So. So if we can kind of get things turned around on the breeding side and you think about, you guys saw them, does that contest, Holy smokers. Them things are just extreme. And it's like, and I'm sure, you know, with, with embryo work IVF now we don't, we don't have to have a dough lay down. And, kid, every year, we'll just flush or just stick the eggs in a Spanish dose and let them take care of it. So. So that. That's changed a lot of it. But I think. I think sometimes we can make change on the market side because we're gonna have to make change on the breeding side, in my opinion.
- [78:42]
Host
Yes, sir. Yeah.
- [78:44]
Scott Shockey
But I don't know. It's. It used to be like, they used to have forms or. Or, you know, they would have an annual steer conference and. And judges and breeders and packers and. And feedlot guys would get together, and we would try to come up with the ideal market steer. And. And, you know, and that was pretty cool, but I just don't see that happening right now. You know, we.
- [79:09]
Host
We.
- [79:11]
Scott Shockey
I don't know. You know what? And I think I mentioned it. I don't know. Maybe I didn't, but. Bob Hines, Don Good. Those guys that judged every show in America, they always said the pendulum will always swing. We'll go to the extreme, and then we'll realize. Whoops. And then we'll swing back the other way. You know, it never stops in the middle, but it'll always swing back and forth, forth, and. And that's exactly right. You look at the history of livestock shows, the kind of animals that win, they've been big, they've been little. They've been big and little. And, you know, so it'll. It'll come back eventually someday, I hope. Yes.
- [79:43]
Host
Well, the biggest thing that I hope anybody takes away from this is we just need to start providing leadership.
- [79:50]
Scott Shockey
Yep.
- [79:52]
Host
And you said that in your speech. I think the. The best step to get to that point is listen to your speech and listen to what you explain, because no one has yet to do what you did. And I think it was very much needed. But to wrap this up, is there anything else that you want to tack on? Is there anything else you want to say? Is there anything that is on your mind?
- [80:15]
Scott Shockey
Gosh, you guys have done a great job with covering it, and, you know, I just. I just think there is. There's so much value in this. There's value in a lot of things that our kids can participate in. I just. I think it's really important that we try to, like I said, let your kids figure out what they really want to do. Don't try to live your dreams through them. There's just a lot of that that I see happening that, you know, I would have loved to had the grand champion steer at The American Royal. But there was no way I was going to be able to do it when I was a kid, because we were showing our own homegrown tomatoes at that deal, you know, But. But Shane, my oldest son, he. He really never liked the show ring. He'd rather stay home and work and do all the work behind the scenes. And Shiloh did. So one. One kid did enjoy it and the other did, and that was fine. You know, we were good with that. And I think it's important as parents, leaders, whatever, when you have responsibility of children to let them be children, let them have fun. I told a few people what I would really like to do. I would like to have a show and call it a show with a purpose. And I think this would be awesome. Go to state fairgrounds. We'd have the encampment buildings where kids would stay. Mom and dad bring the animal, the kid, the tack, the feed. You drop them off. We'll see you in five days, you're gone. And then these kids, each day we. We partner them up with. You know, if you. If you bring a hog to the show tomorrow, you're going to work with a kid in the. In the cattle barn, and you're going to learn about feeding and cattle and fitting. And then we'll have a little contest where you can fit that steer, that heifer, whatever, and we'll have showmanship for the kid that brought the hog. You're going to actually show this calf on Wednesday and still have a show at the end of the day. Every kid that brought an animal, we're still going to have a show, and it's going to pay a lot of money. But guess what? It's just the kids and it's the staff that are there. No parents. And I will promise you those kids will have a ball. There will be no drama. I think it would just be a lot of fun. I think it would be great. But it'd take a lot of work, take a lot of money, take a big, you know, big staff to get that pulled off.
- [82:41]
Host
I also think that it would involve mature people. Yeah, that's something we lack.
- [82:47]
Scott Shockey
Yeah, yeah.
- [82:49]
Host
But.
- [82:50]
Scott Shockey
But no. No fitters, no parents. It's just the kids and the people associated with it. Every day, the kid works with a different species. You know, you. You mix them with different kids, and kids love to have fun, and they. And they do have fun.
- [83:04]
Host
Well, I. I don't really feel like we could have ended on a better note. This has been awesome, and for lack of better words, I really appreciate what you did. And I appreciate you coming on. It means a lot to me. I've not done a post game of the American Royal Steer show yet, but for this to be my first one and this to be the first post game Luke has ever been on, I think that it was killer.
- [83:34]
Scott Shockey
So with all this, I tell you what I can understand. Good.
- [83:39]
Host
I will mention this. So in the middle of our episode, Luke text me, says, dude, my mic's not working anymore.
- [83:45]
Scott Shockey
I'm freaking out.
- [83:47]
Host
So he's been on mute. And so when he's not talking, he's on mute. When he is talking, it sounds weird. So excuse Luke for not talking as much. I know there is someone out there that just drools over his little lisp or whatever he's got going on with that lip of his. But Kunas has been a little quiet and I apologize. And that is what gets these episodes so many views because people fantasize over Luke's.
- [84:14]
Scott Shockey
Luke's words. But I said, I saw him on Swamp People the other day. I don't know. That's my relatives.
- [84:25]
Luke
Don't be too mean now.
- [84:31]
Scott Shockey
You guys are fun. Those guys down there in Louisiana, they have a good time. They understand life.
- [84:37]
Host
Luke dreams of being on Swamp People one day.
- [84:40]
Scott Shockey
That's my man. Those are heroes.
- [84:42]
Luke
Those are heroes, man.
- [84:45]
Scott Shockey
Well, awesome.
- [84:47]
Host
Well, Scott, I appreciate it. I couldn't thank you enough. So if it anything, we just need to learn to provide leadership. And I appreciate of you sorting that show with, with the intelligence and prioritization that you did. And with all this said, empowerment is here. And for anybody that's listening, seek after what Scott said. If you didn't listen to the speech, you can find it on Facebook under show times. And let's, let's learn and grow as an industry. But with that said, that is, that's the post game of the American Royal Steer show. And I couldn't thanks God enough. So we will talk to you all next time. There will be a post game coming in January of the Denver Stock show and Rodeo and I can't wait to see how that goes as well. So with all this said, we appreciate you all. We'll see you all next time.