Podcast
Energy Capital Podcast
Hosted by Josh Rhodes & Matt Boms · EN
The Texas power grid is being rebuilt in real time. Energy Capital covers the policy fights, market mechanics, and technical decisions shaping what comes next. Hosted by Josh Rhodes (UT Austin) and Matt Boms (TAEBA), with the policymakers, regulators, and researchers at the center of it. Produced by ClarityForge Studios.
Topics include ERCOT market operations, grid reliability, renewable integration, distributed energy resources, interconnection and transmission planning, regulatory economics, energy storage, demand response, and the Texas electricity market. New episodes weekly. on Texas energy and power grid issues, featuring interviews with energy professionals, academics, policymakers, and advocates. Produced by ClarityForge Studios.
www.texasenergyandpower.com
www.texasenergyandpower.com
40episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
How to Overcome Ideological Divides and the Climate of Contempt
Nov 14, 202400:50:20Tap to summarizeThis episode was recorded just three days after the U.S. presidential election. My guest, UT Law Professor David Spence, recently published an exceptional book Climate of Contempt: How to Rescue the U.S. Energy Transition from Voter Partisanship. I believe this book is perfect for this moment and one of the best I’ve read on climate policy—and I read a lot on climate policy.David and I dove into the roots and contributors of America’s current partisan and ideological divides which have grown rapidly over the past few decades. We discussed not only the challenges this divide presents — though we talked about those extensively — but also some possible solutions. David shows how we can bridge these divides, re-establish trust, and find common ground. We also talked about the Inflation Reduction Act and why energy policy could, maybe, be a unifying area in an increasingly polarized landscape.I found this conversation both important and thought-provoking, and I hope you will too. I highly recommend David’s book; it’s a remarkable piece that is particularly relevant now. If you’re interested in the energy transition, the history of energy-related regulations, or want a deeper understanding of our current political landscape, especially as it relates to climate and energy, I think you’ll enjoy this episode as much as I did.As always, please like, share, and leave a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for being a listener. Timestamps2:31 - The major ideas in Climate of Contempt4:06 - How the thesis of the book connects to the outcome of the US presidential election5:54 - Discontent with the status quo in the US8:09 - The depth of the ideological divide in the US13:27 - How to bridge ideological divides and actively listen (and why it’s so challenging)17:51 - Effectiveness of deliberative polling and in-person, offline interactions. The role of media and social media in driving polarization.23:52 - The importance of active listening, education over persuasion, and not being too sure you are right.29:05 - Is energy a place we can find more common ground? Challenges and opportunities. 37:54 - The future of the Inflation Reduction Act 43:31 - Regulatory uncertainty… what happens next?Show NotesClimate of Contempt: How to Rescue the U.S. Energy Transition from Voter Partisanship by David B. SpenceDavid’s website and blogEnergyTradeoffs.comWorks from Katharine Hayhoe”Spirit of Liberty” – speech from Judge Learned HandAdvanced Manufacturing Production tax creditTranscriptDoug LewinDavid Spence, welcome to the Energy Capital Podcast.David Spence Happy to be here, Doug.Doug LewinIt's great to have you here today. You have written what I think is a really remarkable book and I hope it is read widely. I think it is really illuminating for the moment we're in. We'll of course put a link in the show notes so people can find it easily, but it's called Climate of Contempt, the subtitle, How to Rescue the U.S. Energy Transition from Voter Partisanship. We're recording on Friday, November 8th, the Friday just after the reelection of Donald Trump. So I think that this book is even, I thought it was incredibly relevant before the election, I think it's even more so now. Can we just start David with you just explaining the thesis of the book generally, but also in light of the political earthquake that happened this week?David SpenceSure, happy to. So the main point of the book is to try and reintroduce into the popular debate and also parts of the scholarly debate what I think are some underappreciated forces that are driving regulatory politics and, in the case of what we're both interested in, energy transition politics. And that missing element is what I would call the bottom-up forces that are driving what particularly members of Congress, but all elected politicians do. We hear a lot about the top down forces, about how elites are controlling the regulatory process or the policymaking process. And that's part of the story and not an unimportant part of the story, but a really neglected part of the story is how receptive and sensitive elected politicians are to what voters want or more particularly what they don't want. And so politicians work hard to avoid the kind of mistakes that might lose them the next election. And those forces I think are much more important than most people realize. And that's what the book explores and applies to the energy transition.Doug LewinYeah, and so talk about that a little bit in light of this week.David SpenceSure, sure. So we've all seen probably 40 or 50 takes on what happened the other day in the election. In fact, the New York Times alone has had at least 10 different takes depending upon who's doing the writing. And voters' decisions are complicated. They only get to choose one of two choices, but they're motives and reasons for making those choices are varied and complex. And so among the takes we're seeing are takes crediting fears about inflation, racism, sexism, Harris being too progressive, Harris being not progressive enough, other worries about all kinds of other issues.And again, these tend to be the kinds of things that pundits look at, but among the takes that the New York Times had was one today in which a writer said that what Trump was betting on was that he could make a majority of voters believe that the situation that they face is miserable and getting worse under Democratic administrations. And that's the take that probably comes closest to the way I analyze politics in my book, which focuses on how the changes in the modern media environment make it harder for the truth to win out. And so I analyze that in the pre-election environment, but we can see that same sort of dynamic at work in understanding the results of the election the other day.Doug LewinYeah. And I think, to that latest take, there's also some really good data floating around on the internet now about anti-incumbency globally. This is, I believe, one thing I saw was this is the only time in recorded history, which for this particular metric goes back to 1905, that every incumbent party lost voter share in developing countries. That's never happened before. That every single, whether they were right, left, moderate, that the incumbent party lost voter share. So if Trump's strategy was to lean into the anti-incumbent sentiment, he was definitely picking something up in the zeitgeist here and globally. And sometimes we forget here that we do exist in a global context and media is very global at this point too.David Spence Yeah, and on that, you meant developed countries, right? You said developing, but you meant developed.Doug LewinDeveloped, excuse me, developed, you’re absolutely right.David SpenceYeah, and there's no doubt that the disruption of the pandemic had a huge effect on people's perceptions of where the economy is and where it's going. If you look at charts comparing inflation in the United States, coming out of the pandemic with inflation in other countries. It went up everywhere because of the supply chain disruptions. While we were able to get it under control right before the election, that doesn't mean that voters weren't sincerely shaken by the influence of inflation on their everyday lives. So I'm not meaning to discount economic forces entirely here. But clearly there was a belief that all sorts of conditions of daily life were a lot worse than they actually are heading into the election. We can see that in the exit polling.Doug LewinYeah, I think we all feel it to a certain extent. Like every time I go to a grocery store I'm still kind of shocked at what the prices are. There's obviously some truth to all that and I think that that's why the anti-incumbency sentiment is there. But here's what I wanna zero in on a little bit, David, from your book that I think is so striking. And this has been written about obviously other places, but I think you do a great job applying it to how we deal with energy and climate issues. The ideological divide has gotten so strong. You summarize some of that research. Can you talk a little bit about just how bad it's gotten? And I know people have probably heard this before. Where I want to go with it is really where you go in the book, which is how we actually have conversations across these ideological divides. So let's do both of those things. Part A, the ideological divide itself and how strong is it, sort of this partisan, almost like tribal partisanship. And part B, what is at least part of the recipe for dealing with that fundamental problem.David SpenceSure, so I break that divide into sort of two main parts. One is the familiar ideological polarization, which has been getting worse since the mi...
Transcribe →
Innovation at the Grid Edge with DOE's Ram Narayanamurthy
Oct 31, 202400:49:32Tap to summarizeMy guest this week is Ram Narayanamurthy, the Deputy Director of the Building Technologies Office at the Department of Energy (DOE) for the last two years. Before joining DOE, he led the buildings program at the Electric Power Research Institute, or EPRI, for a decade. He has 27 patents to his name and has worked extensively with builders, developers, and utilities to scale new technologies that can increase grid reliability, reduce emissions, improve human health, and lower costs.I spoke to Ram about his work on DOE’s Connected Communities program which funds projects to advance grid-interactive, energy-efficient buildings and communities across the nation. Ram and the Building Technologies Office are doing cutting edge research and deployment to increase demand flexibility, a key component to strengthening the grid. We talked about the role AI plays to optimize demand and shift loads to times of day with an abundance of power and use less at peak times. We talked about the importance of building technologies that improve energy efficiency and demand response, particularly in an environment of rapid load growth. I enjoyed learning what this important Office within the Department of Energy is up to and how the technologies they’re piloting with utilities around the country could impact Texas in future years.I hope you enjoy the episode. Timestamps, show notes, and the transcript below. Please don’t forget to like, share, subscribe, and leave a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.Timestamps2:05 - About the Building Technologies Office3:28 - What does demand flexibility mean in buildings6:41 - Energy optimization and flexibility as energy efficiency9:03 - AI11:55 - The grid edge15:28 - What are Connected Communities? What is the Connected Communities program?17:25 - Examples of Connected Communities; results and lessons learned so far25:27 - Who should orchestrate all these distributed energy resources28:36 - Importance of distribution planning; examples of successful strategies32:38 - Replacing resistance heat36:18 - How do we make sure these technologies and the benefits are actually accessible and affordable to everybody; trickle up vs trickle down strategies for technology access42:51 - How do we make demand flexibility and grid edge more understandable and desirable to the public46:29 - Resilience benefits of Connected CommunitiesShow NotesBuilding Technologies OfficeConnected Communities ProgramFERC and NERC report on Winter Storm UriInformation on HOMES and HEARs (or HEEHRA) programsSeattle City Light Electrification AssessmentEPRI Study Examines Impacts Of Electrification For Seattle City Light | American Public Power AssociationElectrification Strategy - City LightTranscriptDoug LewinRam Narayanamurthy. Welcome to the Energy Capital Podcast.Ram NarayanamurthyThank you, Doug, and it's my honor to be here. Thank you for inviting us over.Doug LewinYeah. Thanks so much for taking time, Ram. Obviously the Building Technologies Office where you sit, is doing some really phenomenal work. Can we just start with kind of a little bit about BTO and its mission? Obviously DOE is a great big agency. There's lots of different areas of endeavor, but tell us a little about the Building Technologies Office.Ram NarayanamurthySo the Building Technologies Office, we are about creating healthy, comfortable, efficient, affordable, resilient, and decarbonized environments for people to live in. We spend 90% of our time in buildings, whether it's for work, whether it's for living, it's our home. We shop in buildings, we learn in buildings. So they're all over us and all around us. Part of the mission of our office is to achieve our long-term energy goals while still making sure that we are providing those healthy and resilient environments for people to live in and work in.Doug LewinPerfect. And looking over the website, you guys kind of break it down into research and development, market stimulation, and codes and standards. And while I don't think you work, and you can correct me in a minute if I'm wrong, you don't work on codes and standards. I do want to make sure the audience understands how important those are. Because we're obviously in an environment, we're on just about every podcast run, we're talking about load growth, right? And having these standards in place, bringing the use of refrigerators and air conditioners and lights down, that makes a big, big difference. But what we want to talk about today is the part of the mission, and I'm reading this little phrase from your website, “enable high performing, energy efficient, and demand flexible residential and commercial buildings.” Can you talk for a minute about what you mean by this demand flexibility?Ram NarayanamurthyPerfect, yeah. So at the Building Technologies Office, we just recently released our national blueprint for decarbonizing the building stock by 2050. When we look at our goals to achieve a net zero economy by 2050, buildings contribute about 38% of emissions, overall emissions when you count the energy use, the electricity use in buildings. So for achieving those goals, we have four main pillars. One is around reducing emissions at the building. We have a second pillar, around energy efficiency, which has been core to both affordability and decarbonization over many years. We are working on demand flexibility and we are working on what's called embodied carbon. And demand flexibility for us is the place where the buildings are integrally tied into the overall energy system, especially the electricity system, but also to some extent to the gas system. And demand flexibility means that you are now able to move the energy use. Buildings use about 75% of all electricity that's generated. So the capability and the ability to move that energy use to times when you have more clean power or more clean power generation being able to have that flexibility so that even within a building you are able to run your air conditioner while still charging your electric vehicle, while still charging your battery or discharging your battery, making all of those different elements work together so that you are optimizing at the building level, but you're also optimizing at the overall system level and helping the overall energy grid become more cleaner and efficient. That's really what demand flexibility is about. And we have different ways of achieving it. Traditionally demand flexibility on the utility side has been around demand response, but now we are going to a new era where we have not just the traditional on/off switches, but we have much more flexible technologies, whether it's batteries, EVs, smart term stats, building energy management systems that can provide the demand flexibility. It's a concept that is transition.Doug LewinYeah. And so it's actually, I like to talk to people about this a lot. I've been working in and around energy efficiency for 20 years or so. And we all have to kind of update our priors here because we're rapidly moving into an era. In many ways we're in that era now where energy efficiency actually means using more power at certain times, right? You talked about there's low emission power, that's basically the same as cheaper power, right? So if we can actually get into, you were talking about electric vehicles, charge the vehicles when power prices are low and the power is cleaner and then, stop the charging or even you get into some of these vehicles-to-home, vehicle-to-load, vehicle-to-grid, these kinds of things. But even a more fundamental basic use case would be, and this is where the connection to energy efficiency and demand response come together, right, is with air conditioning. So if you can, particularly with some of the heat pumps, right, they can take a signal. So like you said, the old versions of demand response, direct load control, right. Turn it off and people kind of sweating inside their homes. Now you can actually pre-cool when you have a lot of solar power and then use less during that period when the sun's going down. Are you guys looking at those kinds of things as well?Ram NarayanamurthyAbsolutely, yeah. And like you mentioned, right, technology has evolved a lot in the last 10 years. We have way more tools than we ever did in our tool belt. So, when we think about what we can do today, you take a smart thermostat, like a Nest or Ecobee, and now you have the capability to remotely change the set points. Of course, you're working with the people who live in the homes to make sure they're still comfortable with what you're doing. Butyou can do things now where you can pre-cool a building much ...
Transcribe →
The Power of Microgrids with Jana Gerber
Oct 9, 202400:14:02Tap to summarizeThis is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.douglewin.comTexas is number one in the United States for many energy-related achievements: wind and solar generation, oil and gas production. But Texas is also the number one state for weather related outages, with nearly 50% more outages over the last 25 years than California. Just within the last four years Texans experienced Winter Storm Uri (2021), an ice storm in Central Texas (2023), and a derecho and Hurricane Beryl (2024). But the frequency and duration of power outages can be managed and reduced through many strategies. One of the quickest and most effective ways to lessen the impact of outages is to have widespread onsite backup power, also called microgrids: interconnected resources like solar panels, gas generators, and batteries that connect directly to homes, facilities, and other sites, allowing them to operate independently from the main grid.My guest this week is Jana Gerber, President of Microgrid North America at Schneider Electric. Schneider Electric is a massive company with over 150,000 employees. Odds are, you’ve got one of their products in your home, but you probably don’t even know it. They make all sorts of electrical equipment and they are a leader in microgrids. Jana has been with Schneider for 20 years and understands the business of backup power as well as anyone out there. During the interview, Jana explained how Schneider’s microgrids work, how the role of the consumer on the grid is evolving away from merely being passive recipient. We talked about the financing methods to get these backup power projects off the ground, challenges in bringing microgrids to scale, the value of resilience, and much more. I hope you enjoy this interview. As always, please like, share, and leave a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for being a listener. Timestamps0:18 - About Schneider Electric and Jana’s background2:14 - What is a microgrid? 6:16 - Where Schneider has deployed and the mix of technologies used for their microgrids11:11 - State of the microgrid market in Texas13:35 - What is a prosumer15:00 - The role of EVs in microgrids17:02 - Schneider Home20:23 - How significant are distributed resource solutions to Schneider’s business now and moving forward22:04 - Financing options26:16 - The challenge of accounting for and valuing resilience30:06 - Small commercial enterprises and microgrids; reducing costs through standardization33:39 - Additional options for tax credits and financing 36:13 - Financing options and tax credits for the residential sector38:03 - Standardization, islanding, and interconnection42:46 - The role of microgrids in managing load growth45:33 - Fuel cells46:42 - Upcoming microgrid conference in TexasShow NotesSchneider ElectricAbout Schneider HomeMicrogrid Knowledge Conference, Dallas, April 15-17, 2025Special Episode with the Chairman of the Texas PUC, Thomas Gleeson (includes discussion of funding for microgrids at critical facilities)LoanSTAR Revolving Loan ProgramHome energy tax credits (including the Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit and Residential Clean Energy Credit)Microgrid interconnection and cost recovery docket
Transcribe →
Resilience for All: Improving Disaster Response and Responsiveness with Dr. Sergio Castellanos
Oct 3, 202400:42:57Tap to summarizeWhen Hurricane Beryl hit, residents all across Harris County, from every economic status, educational attainment, and racial and ethnic background lost power. But even as the storm destabilized life for almost everyone in the region, the impacts of the storm — and the safety and wellbeing of Houstonians during and after it — have not impacted everyone the same. But it doesn’t have to be this way. The inequities in our disaster response – and our efforts to make communities and infrastructure more resilient to extreme weather – are the result of policy, regulatory, and business choices that can, and should, be changed. To better understand why these inequities persist, and what can be done about them I spoke to Dr. Sergio Castellanos, an Assistant Professor in Civil, Architectural and Environmental Engineering at the University of Texas at Austin and the Primary Investigator at the Rapid, Equitable and Sustainable Energy Transitions, or RESET, Lab. Sergio and the RESET Lab have done extensive research on natural disaster responses in Texas, including a major report, “Enhancing power system resilience to extreme weather events: A qualitative assessment of winter storm Uri”. Timestamps3:20 - About the RESET Lab 4:49 - An overview of RESET’s research into Winter Storm Uri 8:21 - Utilities’ communication challenge during and after extreme weather events14:28 - Strategies for effective communications during outages and mapping social capital17:51 - Are utilities incorporating public feedback? 23:10 - Inequities in both natural disaster responses and deploying resilience solutions; racial divide in residential solar30:53 - Impact of current policies and programs in reducing racial and economic inequities in access to distributed energy resources35:26 - What’s next for the RESET Lab38:38 - Mexico’s incoming president and Sergio’s outlook on energy and climate action in MexicoShow NotesRESET LabEnhancing power system resilience to extreme weather events: A qualitative assessment of winter storm Uri. International Journal of Disaster Risk Reduction (March 2024).A Synthesis and Review of Exacerbated Inequities from the February 2021 Winter Storm and The Risks Moving Forward. Progress in Energy (March 2023). This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.douglewin.com/subscribe
Transcribe →
Special Episode with the Chairman of the Texas PUC, Thomas Gleeson
Sep 26, 202401:10:03Tap to summarizeToday's episode is a special one: an interview with Thomas Gleeson, the Chairman of the Public Utility Commission (PUC) of Texas, recorded live on September 20th at the SPEER Industry and Policy Workshop. The PUC oversees ERCOT and the transmission grid, fully regulates the monopoly transmission distribution utilities, and has power and authority over just about every part of the power grid. Chairman Gleeson was appointed Chairman in January; before that, he worked at the PUC for over 15 years, including as the Executive Director for about four years. I enjoyed talking with the Chairman, he’s thoughtful, self effacing, and open to new ideas. As you know, I don’t agree with everything the Commission prioritizes or does and I am sometimes critical of their decisions. So I give Chair Gleeson a lot of credit for agreeing to do this. And, as often happens when people talk, it turns out we agree on a whole lot as well.Chair Gleeson and I spoke about his vision for the grid in 5-10 years, the technologies he’s most excited about, and whether changes are needed in the utility business model. We talked about Winter Storm Uri and what remains to be done to increase reliability and resilience. We also talked about affordability; Gleeson worked on low income assistance programs as a staffer at the PUC a decade ago. Of course, given we were at the SPEER conference, we talked about the importance of demand response and energy efficiency.We also talked about communications and public engagement. The Chairman is focused on making the PUC more accessible to Texans. In fact, the PUC will be in Houston on October 5 for the first PUC meeting with all the commissioners outside of Austin in over a quarter century. We also dug into the Texas Energy Fund and I asked the Chair if the PUC plans to allocate the funding, approved by Texas voters last year, to fund microgrids at critical facilities, an issue that’s become more and more pressing after Hurricane Beryl led to deaths at nursing homes that could’ve benefited from the voter approved funds.This interview was recorded at South-central Partnership for Energy Efficiency as a Resource’s, or SPEER’s, sold-out Industry and Policy Workshop, an annual conference that, if you haven’t been, I highly encourage you to attend next year. You can keep up-to-date about this event, and SPEER’s other work, at their website and on their social media, which we link to in the show notes. I’m trying to keep as many of these podcasts as possible free. To do that, I need your support. If you’re not yet a paid subscriber to the Texas Energy and Power Newsletter and the Energy Capital Podcast, please become one today!Timestamps5:00 - Chair Gleeson’s outlook on the grid for the next 5 to 10 years7:45 - Technologies Chair Gleeson is most enthusiastic about and emphasis on Texas’ “energy expansion”9:30 - Extra High Voltage (EHV) transmission, changes in planning with load growth14:00 - Winter Storm Uri: diagnosis of what went wrong; mistakes after 2011 winter storm outages; and the state’s progress for addressing these issues19:30 - Replacing resistance heat in Texas; heat pumps and energy efficiency26:35 - Targeting energy efficiency programs for low-income Texans; failure of past bill assistance programs and ways to ensure we don’t repeat those failures30:45 - Does Texas need to report utility shut-offs?34:52 - After Hurricane Beryl, does the PUC need to change the way it regulates monopoly utilities? 40:00 - How do you align utility incentives with the financial interests of their customers? 43:45 - Texas Energy Fund and whether the promised 18% will be spent on Backup Power Packages for critical facilities50:26 - Upcoming public hearing in Houston and efforts to make the PUC more publicly accessible54:31 - Audience question: How to get ongoing and expected load growth under control, especially related to crypto mining and data centers 57:37 - Audience question: Integrated resource planning for non-ERCOT utilities1:05:58 - Audience question: Interconnecting ERCOT with other systemsShow NotesSPEER (South-central Partnership for Energy Efficiency as a Resource) websiteSPEER Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedInOffice of Public of Engagement at the Texas Public Utility CommissionHis 93-year-old mom died from heat after Beryl. Her death was preventable. - Houston ChronicleHow to Restructure Utility Incentives: The Four Pillars of Comprehensive Performance-Based Regulation - RMIThe February 2021 Cold Weather Outages in Texas and the South Central United States – FERC, NERC and Regional Entity Staff ReportThis new organization wants to remake PUCs for the energy transition - Charles Hua on the Volts PodcastTexas’ Energy Expansion - Texas 2036TranscriptDoug LewinHe's worked at the commission for 15 years, really understands the commission, understands the ins and outs of policy, and really excited to dig into all of that today. Anything else you want to say by way of introduction Chairman?Chair GleesonNo, I'm excited to be here. You know, as I was saying to you, we don't get to interact too often. So I'm excited to kind of have a conversation, get your thoughts on some of this. I will say I initially, when I came up the stairs, ended up at the beer distributors. And so…Doug LewinYou almost stayed over there?Chair GleesonAlmost. And I may mosey on back over there after this just to see if they're sampling anything or if I can join that association as well. Doug LewinAn energy efficiency crowd or beer distributors? It's a tough call. Before we jump in, I also just want to thank SPEER. We're obviously, for those that are listening on the podcast, we are recording this live at the SPEER Industry Conference. If you were not here live with us, you should make sure you're here next year. It's been, it was great yesterday. It's going to be great today. And, of course, thanks, Chairman Gleeson, for doing this. I think it's really important for you to be here, for folks to hear from you, and for you to hear from them in this really important industry, sort of sub-industry within the energy industry focused on energy efficiency.So I just want to start with kind of a general question. And if you could kind of describe for us, I do this sometimes on the podcast. I think it's kind of a good way to jump into this. If you think of the grid in like five to ten years. And I'm hoping you could kind of describe this like you've got energy people in the room. There's energy people listening to the podcast, but also listening to the podcast are some folks that just, because of Winter Storm Uri or Hurricane Beryl or just rising costs or climate change or whatever it is that kind of brings them to that. There's folks that are not experts as well. So both in kind of, f you can kind of a technical way, but also to a consumer that's not super into industry jargon and all of that. What is your vision for what the grid will look like in five to ten years?Chair GleesonYeah. So, you know, one of the things I speak about often and I try to tell people in every speaking engagement I have is we hear often about an energy transition, which implies we are somewhere and we're transitioning from where we are to where we're going. And that may work in other parts of the country or in other parts of the globe. But in Texas, with the load growth that we see, I don't see it as a transition at this point. I see it as an expansion. And so we don't have the luxury of deciding we only want renewables or we only want gas fire generation or nuclear is going to be the end all, be the panacea that fixes everything. I don't think we have that luxury based on the load that I see coming to this state, which is a good thing, right? The governor, the elected leadership of the state want Texas to remain an economic engine for the country. So with that comes a lot of people and a lot of businesses. And so I don'...
Transcribe →
Deploy! Unlocking America's Energy and Economic Potential with Jigar Shah
Sep 17, 202401:00:56Tap to summarizeToday's episode is a special recording of my live interview on September 6th in Austin with Jigar Shah, Director of the Department of Energy’s Loan Programs Office (LPO). Previous to LPO, Jigar founded SunEdison and served as president of Generate Capital. He also wrote a book called “Climate Wealth: Unlocking the Impact Economy,” and many of the book’s themes come up in this interview. Jigar also previously hosted the Energy Gang Podcast, which I learned a lot from, and recommend to folks to this day. I loved this conversation with one of the leading thinkers and doers for the past several decades. We talked about the work of the LPO, the surge in manufacturing in the United States, the Inflation Reduction Act, load growth, virtual power plants, batteries, EVs, geothermal, nuclear, hydrogen, and even more. It was a packed hour. This podcast was recorded live at the 2024 Texas Tribune Festival - Texas’ breakout politics and policy event held in downtown Austin. For recaps from this year's recently concluded event and to stay updated on next year's program, visit TribFest.org.I hope you enjoy the episode. Timestamps, show notes, and the transcript are below. Please don’t forget to like, share, subscribe, and leave a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.Timestamps1:49 About Jigar and Loan Programs Office (LPO)5:27 - The Inflation Reduction Act as industrial policy; national security benefits of onshoring the energy industry9:01 - Load growth17:33 - Virtual Power Plants, batteries, and EVs28:57 - State of nuclear energy35:28 - State of geothermal energy37:47 - Potential for LPO programs in Texas45:16 - Exporting American energy technologies and the potential for further economic growth46:43 - State of vehicle-to-grid and vehicle-to-home technologies49:34 - State of hydrogen51:40 - ERCOT interconnection queue55:33 - What will happen to DOE and EPA programs under a new presidential administration?58:45 - Deploy24Show NotesDepartment of Energy Loan Programs OfficePathways to Commercial Liftoff ReportsDeploy24Nuclear? Perhaps! - A conversation with Jigar Shah, head of DOE's Loan Programs Office - Volts PodcastCreating Climate Wealth: Unlocking the Impact Economy by Jigar ShahThe Energy Gang PodcastTranscriptDoug LewinGood to see you all. My name is Doug Lewin. I'm the host of the Energy Capital podcast. We are recording this for the Energy Capital podcast. The first time on the Energy Capital pod, we've done a live recording. So very excited for this and particularly thrilled that for the first time for a live recording, my guest is Jigar Shah.I think probably everybody who's here knows who he is, but let me just give just a quick introduction as to who Jigar is. In case you don't know, he's the Director of the Loan Programs Office at the Department of Energy. He was the founder of SunEdison, president of Generate Capital. He also wrote a book called “Climate Wealth: Unlocking the Impact Economy”, and we'll talk a little bit about that theme. For years and years, Jigar hosted the Energy Gang, and I think those episodes actually hold up super well. I learned a lot, just listening to that podcast was kind of like an education for me, and I think many, many thousands of other people. So Jigar really is just a huge part of the clean energy economy, and in this role now, at the Loan Program Office (LPO), Jigar has a tremendous opportunity and has been using that opportunity over the last couple years to really accelerate the clean energy economy.So Jigar, if you want to add anything to that by way of introduction, and then maybe let the folks both in the room and for the podcast know just briefly a little history of LPO, and I think most importantly why it matters.Jigar ShahWell, first of all, thank you for having me on, and thanks to the Texas Tribune for putting on this fantastic event. I always meet just fascinating people here, so thank you for that.Look, I think that we in the United States have always been amazing at innovation, right? I mean, DOE is roughly 45 years old. We've got 10,000 engineers, scientists, and experts at work at the national laboratories around the country. And so whether it's solar panels or modern wind turbines or advanced nuclear designs, enhanced geothermal, hydraulic fracturing, all of that stuff really came out of the research mission of the US Department of Energy. And then it sort of happened that the capital markets of the United States just wasn't interested in commercializing much of that. And so a lot of those technologies went overseas to get commercialized, and now we're importing a lot of those technologies back into the country, having someone else make it.So the Loan Programs Office was conceived of in 2005 in the 2005 Energy Act. And the goal of it initially was to help build nuclear plants in the United States. In 2007, we had an additional mandate around helping with fossil technologies and renewable energy technologies. And from 2009 to 2011, it was super busy and did about $35 billion worth of loans at that moment. I'd say it went dormant after that. And I think when the Secretary came into the Department of Energy, she and President Biden really wanted to bring back the Loan Programs Office. They asked me to join, and it was the right place at the right time. And today we've got almost $300 billion worth of loan applications into the Loan Programs Office. And it's roughly at 50% debt equity, so it's probably $600 billion worth of projects. And so people in America have never been so energized to do big things again in our country, and it's great to see. Doug LewinIt really is great to see, particularly because – and this is something I think, is not – sometimes is lost on the Inflation Reduction Act and the increase for a Loan Program Office, but also for a lot of other programs. You were on Dave Roberts' great podcast, Volts, talking about nuclear. Anybody interested in nuclear – I know a lot of people are interested in nuclear these days – should be listening to – you should listen to that podcast. What Dave Roberts said, I don't think he said it on that podcast, but he said it somewhere else and I really like it, is that the Inflation Reduction Act is really sort of industrial policy masquerading as climate policy. That the point of the Inflation Reduction Act. Yes, there's a lot in there about clean energy and about decarbonization, but it's also about reshoring manufacturing and actually bringing that back. And that has been one of the huge wins we've seen over the last couple years, right, is the increase in manufacturing. Can you talk about that piece, the competitiveness, actually building a stronger supply chain here, right? We saw after COVID, the weakness of the supply chain and all the problems that caused, and having a lot of sort of critical materials, manufacturing everything from chips, and obviously the CHIPS Act is really important too, to solar panels being manufactured somewhere else makes us vulnerable. The inverse is true. Having it manufactured here makes us stronger. Can you talk about that piece a little bit?Jigar ShahYeah, I mean, I think you've covered a lot of the elements of it. I think, you know, in 2009, there was an attempt to pass climate legislation called Waxman and Markey. That climate legislation was really putting a price on carbon. I think that, you know, because of everyone's experience during COVID. But also I think there was a broader narrative that was started around America wanting to build things in our country. My sense is that it's actually industrial strategy that everyone knew they were voting for industrial strategy. And the climate thing is sort of like a branding exercise. I mean, I think when you think about all the Senators that voted for that piece of legislation, there's a lot of them in there that are not necessarily climate focused, but are industrial strategy focused. I think, as you suggested on COVID and supply chains, I mean, when you think about what we're trying to do in the United States, where over 75% of everything we've added to the grid every year since roughly 2016 has been clean, right? Has been solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, nuclear. If all of those component parts were imported from China, you could imagine there being less interest from the American public to continue to invest in the energy transition, right?I mean, you know, I think that, to me, I don't know that you have to, guess too far, to see what the intention of many of the legislature, of the House and Senate members were when they passed this. I think that when you're thinking about something as essential as energy and the energy transition, we want a lot of our batteries to be made here, our critical minerals to come from a diverse set of sources. And I don't think it means that we're not going to do business with China. I think China is still a very large trading partner of the United States. But I think that we're saying in the same way that we managed OPEC. And we didn't want a certain set of count...
Transcribe →
Integrating Distributed Energy Resilience Solutions with Arushi Sharma Frank
Sep 3, 202401:01:51Tap to summarizeThere aren't many grid strategies that increase reliability, resiliency, affordability, and sustainability. While many strategies may address one or two of these factors – perhaps even three – distributed energy resources uniquely check all four boxes. After Hurricane Beryl, Texans, including policymakers, were left questioning how such a disaster could happen again, especially so soon after Winter Storm Uri. The pain, suffering, and even loss of life were profound and, tragically, avoidable.My guest this week is Arushi Sharma Frank. Arushi is one of the smartest people on energy and energy policy, with a particularly deep expertise in distributed energy resources and virtual power plants. She brings a holistic view of energy systems, energy law, and how distributed solutions fit in with the whole.Arushi is the founder of Luminary Strategies, a DC-based firm advising US and international electric service companies and energy system technology providers. Beyond her national work, Arushi has deep ties to Texas over several energy career positions. She led Tesla's strategic market entry in Texas, when the company launched its first US wholesale and retail energy businesses here from 2020 to 2024. She pioneered various ERCOT frameworks for grid integrated virtual power plants and Tesla Megapack. And she was a key architect in the creation of the PUC’s Texas ADER or Aggregated Distributed Energy Resource pilot in her former role as Task Force Vice Chair. In this episode, Arushi and I explored the rapidly changing landscape of energy storage and its impact on the ERCOT grid. We dove into the nuances of regulatory work and discussed how to meet the resiliency challenges caused by severe storms. Arushi shared her thoughts on how different regulatory structures shape the deployment of distributed solar and energy solutions. And we also got into the expanding role of community solar and storage. I hope you enjoy the episode. Timestamps, show notes, details on events where you can find Arushi this fall, and the transcript are below.Please don’t forget to like, share, subscribe, and leave a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.The Texas Energy and Power Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Timestamps3:00 - Arushi’s background and her connection to Texas6:00 - Arushi’s mindset for working in regulatory spaces10:00 - How is storage changing the dynamic in the ERCOT grid14:00 - CenterPoint’s response to Beryl; Storm Protection Plans and cross state comparisons21:00 - Vertically integrated utilities vs competitive energy-only market and their relationship to distributed storage and energy being deployed25:30 - Purpose of different plans and their different goals; importance of integrated, grid modernization and distribution infrastructure investment plans34:00 - Continuity of service and passive survivability; top priorities in disaster planning37:30 - How mobile solar and batteries are being implemented as resilience solutions in other places in the US40:20 - Community solar and storage; retail wheeling; PUNs44:00 - Effectiveness of solar plus storage vs diesel or gas generator backups48:30 - Texas Power Promise and the efficacy of requiring a mix of solar, storage, and natural gas for microgrids52:00 - Economic value of resilience and the work of Texas’ ADER Task Force58:00 - Texas is way behind on DERs but there is hope; how underinvestment in distribution grids can be overcomeShow NotesADER filing from Arushi Sharma FrankCraig Moreau, Chief of Emergency Management and Homeland Security, Fayette County, speaking at Clean Energy States Alliance, speaking on his experience with mobile resilient power systems. Teaching Substack: Luminary Strategies Substack: Luminary Strategies: Powering Everywhere with DERs Newsletter; Powering Texas with DERs Newsletter @ArushiSF on Twitter / X Places Arushi will be speaking this fall: Houston Energy & Climate Week 2024 - Sponsored by Greentown Labs: Climatetech Innovation Festival (September 11, 2024 9:30a - Register Here). Houston Energy & Climate Week 2024 - Sponsored by Abundance Institute, Edge Zero: Cleantech Office Hours: VPPs & Distribution Grids (September 11, 2 pm, Register Here). University of Texas: Kay Bailey Hutchinson Energy Center: Power Up Series, Seminar 1, Behind the Scenes at ERCOT, Sept. 17, 2024, Register Here (UT Students). New York Climate Week 2024 - Sponsored by EcoSuite and Mission:Data: Overcoming Clean Energy Friction September 26, 2024 5 pm - Request to Join Here.) DERVOS 2024: Thanks for reading The Texas Energy and Power Newsletter! This post is public so feel free to share it.Transcript:Doug LewinArushi Sharma Frank, welcome to the Energy Capital Podcast. So great to have you. Arushi Sharma FrankThank you, thrilled to be here.Doug LewinWe've been talking about this for a while. Glad we made it happen. You have such a great perspective on the things going on in Texas. You've been deeply involved in a lot of the good things happening in Texas. Why don't we just start, just share with our audience just briefly, if you would, kind of who you are, background, your career, your work in advocacy, and specifically the connection to Texas.Arushi Sharma FrankYeah, absolutely. So I started my energy career right out of law school, actually during law school at the American Gas Association (AGA) in Washington, DC. And one of the most important and fabulous elements of starting your energy career in a trade association is that instead of inheriting the knowledge base for one company, you inherit the capacity from that experience of learning a whole system. You learn the production, the distribution, the transmission, the rate design, the cost recovery, the safety, the regulation, all of those aspects. And doing so for instead of one or two companies, but for a couple hundred companies. It really opens your mind and it opened my mind to be very intentional about having a diverse career so that I could be the best at anything I could possibly do to create sustainable and positive change and innovation for our industry. So I've been coming to Texas since that job. I was in charge at AGA among other things for creating the Knowledge Center and DC, Washington DC advocacy platform for responsible horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, which are the two technologies that enabled the shale gas boom. And I started coming to Texas at that point. Spent a lot of time in Fort Worth, Dallas, and moving on in my career, moving from representing gas utilities to the IPPs, the independent power producers, the generators. And then going in-house to Exelon. This is before the spin-off in 2016 to 2019. And working very directly with generation operations providers. So the folks who actually operate the nuclear and the conventional thermal power fleet, the folks who actually are out there on the wind operation sites, the folks trying to figure out net power in Texas. I'm actually the person that filed Net Power's, power generation company, filing at the PUC. It's my name on the bottom. So I've got a weird connection to a lot of things in Texas. All of that really set me up for the job that I most recently did before starting my own firm. And that was to create an energy advocacy presence for Tesla when they moved their headquarters to Texas in 2020. So that's the cycle. And it's taken me through what I like to call the chakra of energy systems. And all the advocacy work that goes on top of that is very, very much fundamentally grounded in figuring out, these are the first principles of how the technologies work in our life. How do you build the solutions on top of them that enable us to get the best value out of them?Doug LewinSo your work at Tesla, when we'll talk about this in the course of the conversation, led to some really groundbreaking work at the PUC with the Aggregated Distributed Energy Resource Task Force. So we'll get into that. You and Tesla really played a very leading role there along with a lot of other folks in the market.But before we get into those kinds of details, I just want to kind ...
Transcribe →
Rooftop Revolution: John Berger on Scaling Distributed Solar in Texas
Aug 15, 202400:15:59Tap to summarizeThis is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.douglewin.comWhat steps do we need to take in Texas to foster growth in this important emerging market? To explore this question, there's no one better than John Berger, founder and CEO of Sunnova Energy. Headquartered in Houston, Sunnova is a leader in residential solar, battery storage and energy management technologies across the US John has been in the industry for about 30 years now, and he understands the value proposition and the barriers to renewable energy and distributed generation as well as anybody. I really enjoyed this episode and I hope you do too. This episode is for paid subscribers only and only the free preview will be listed publicly on podcast apps. To become a premium subscriber, please visit www.douglewin.com/subscribeTimestamps4:03 - Current trends in the power market and how that’s impacting the value of distributed generation and resilience7:49 - Bull vs bear market; changes in the power market in the past 30 years and demand growth12:25 - What policy/regulatory changes needed to grow distributed solar17:11 - Potential for greater competition in distribution and publicly available distribution resource plans, challenges of central planning23:30 - Why is Texas lagging in distributed generation?28:17 - A performance mechanism for microgrids31:06 - Sunnova’s Adaptive Retail Plan with David Energy33:51 - Virtual Power Plants36:05 - Benefits of distributed generation and VPPs to consumers; what’s holding back the growth of VPPs38:52 - How to make solar available and affordable to all 42:03 - Sunnova’s Project Hestia with the Department of Energy44:41 - Impact of Inflation Reduction Act investments on the market 46:57 - Are solar supply chains shifting to the US / North America50:07 - EVs and EV chargingShow NotesSunnovaSunnova’s Adaptive Retail Plan with David EnergyCritics Say CenterPoint CEO’s “Relationship” Influenced $818M Deal For Generators - Texas MonthlyCenterPoint spent $800M on mobile generators. Where are they post-Hurricane Beryl? - Houston Chronicle
Transcribe →
Scorched Earth: Understanding the Deadly Impact of Heat with Jeff Goodell
Aug 8, 202401:02:55Tap to summarizeI spoke with Jeff Goodell, the bestselling author of The Heat Will Kill You First: Life and Death on a Scorched Planet, on the dangers of heat waves, especially when in combination with other natural disasters.Timestamps4:12 - Physiological impacts of heat and how to stay safe9:13 - Scale of heat-related deaths and illness12:28 - What is a Hurricane Katrina of heat and how is heat a threat multiplier17:58 - Resilience solutions for heat and extreme weather 23:52 - Maintaining hope in the face of the realities of climate change32:43 - What will happen to frontline climate communities like Houston as climate change continues to exacerbate extreme heat and other weather conditions36:51 - Economic costs of natural disasters41:49 - Need for corporate and political leadership; reimaging how we structure cities and communities; strategies and technologies for mitigation and adaptation50:08 - Climate denialism and climate nihilism 56:51 - Recommended reading and Jeff’s future researchShow NotesThe Heat Will Kill You First: Life and Death on a Scorched Planet by Jeff GoodellBig Coal: The Dirty Secret Behind America's Energy Future by Jeff GoodellThe Water Will Come: Rising Seas, Sinking Cities, and the Remaking of the Civilized World by Jeff GoodellThe Heat Wave Scenario That Keeps Climate Scientists Up at Night - New York Times Op-Ed by Jeff GoodellObama Takes on Climate Change: The Rolling Stone Interview with Jeff GoodellBeryl was the weakest a hurricane could be. Why does it feel like Houston isn't the same? Article from Sarah Smith, Houston ChronicleHeat-related mortality in Europe during the summer of 2022 - Nature Magazine This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.douglewin.com/subscribe
Transcribe →
Resilience Through the Storm with Enchanted Rock's Allan Schurr
Jul 31, 202400:37:37Tap to summarizeIn the wake of Hurricane Beryl, after millions of Houstonians lost power and at least 36 people died, many of them because they didn’t have AC in the heat following the storm, Texans were once again left with many of the same questions we’ve been asking for the past decade. How do we make sure that the power stays on when a storm hits or disaster strikes? How can our state, rich in all its energy resources, have its electric grid so badly pummeled by a Category 1 storm? When we are faced with the next storm, hurricane, or cold snap, how will we make sure things are different? How can we keep critical facilities powered, vulnerable residents safe, and generally ensure a reliable and resilient grid? For CenterPoint, the utility serving most of the Houston area, the response so far has been a plan to purchase additional generators. This approach has been met with considerable skepticism, given that CenterPoint had already spent $800 million on generators that proved unusable during Beryl — a cost that continues to be borne by their customers.However, there are alternative solutions that can enhance community resilience without breaking the bank. One of the most promising is microgrids. Microgrids consist of interconnected resources like solar panels, gas generators, and batteries that connect directly to homes, facilities, and other sites, allowing them to operate independently from the main grid. Microgrids have been deployed across the state, including in Houston, and customers with microgrids during Beryl had drastically different experiences than others in the city and the region.To learn more about microgrids, and understand how they can help save lives and maintain stability in future storms, I spoke to Allan Schurr, the COO of Enchanted Rock, which has been deploying microgrids for almost 20 years. 100% of Enchanted Rock’s microgrids that were tasked with providing power during the Beryl aftermath were able to do so, including their microgrids at H-E-B stores and distribution centers, which helped ensure many Texans had access to air conditioning, food, and supplies. Allan and I dug in how Enchanted Rock’s microgrids work and what types of customers are currently served by them. We talked about how microgrids can and should be deployed at nursing homes, hospitals and other critical facilities; why the company chose to switch to natural gas generators instead of diesel fuel; the impact of state legislation on microgrid deployment; and how utilities can make it easier for all types of customers to get microgrids. This one is part of a larger series I am doing on the aftermath of Hurricane Beryl focused on microgrids. In the next few weeks, we’ll be releasing short episodes (like this one) interviewing folks working on solar microgrids and storage, understanding the impact of natural disasters on marginalized communities, the importance of DERs, and more.Thank you for being a listener and don’t forget to like, share, and leave a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts.Timestamps3:48 - How Enchanted Rock got started6:14 - What is a microgrid? How does it work?9:12 - Enchanted Rock’s partnership with H-E-B and benefits to the community12:14 - Nursing homes13:07 - Other types of clients that benefit from microgrids14:44 -Generators vs microgrid and Texas Energy Fund legislation for microgrids22:04 - Benefits of microgrids to the overall grid; microgrids as part of Virtual Power Plants26:03 - Winter Storm Uri and Enchanted Rock28:45 - Accessing gas for microgrids during severe winter weather or storms31:15 - Can you have resilience without microgrids?33:53 - How can utilities make it easier for customers to get microgrids35:42 - Enchanted Rock’s Bridge-to-Grid program and microgrids at data centersShow NotesEnchanted RockEnchanted Rock’s Bridge-to-Grid programWhat’s in a name? Preparing for long-duration outages from “anonymous” storms by Allan SchurrHouston’s post-Beryl outages highlight benefits of distributed energy from Canary MediaAfter Hurricane Beryl, Microgrid-Equipped Grocery Stores and Homes Weathered Outages for More Than a Week in Houston from Microgrid KnowledgeCenterPoint spent $800M on mobile generators. Where are they post-Hurricane Beryl? - from the Houston Chronicle This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.douglewin.com/subscribe
Transcribe →