Energy Gang Podcast Summary

Episode: Everyone is talking (again!) about a coming revival in nuclear power. What needs to change to make it happen? | More from New York Climate Week
Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Ed Crooks (Wood Mackenzie)
Guests:

• Doreen Harris (President and CEO of NYSERDA)
• Nick Campanella (Senior Equity Research Analyst, Barclays Bank)

Overview

Amid surging power demand from data centers and the quest for decarbonization, interest in nuclear power is reviving. This episode, recorded at New York Climate Week, dives into whether this much-discussed "nuclear renaissance" will finally materialize, what must change for nuclear to scale in the US, what’s happening in New York State, and what investors need to see before backing new projects.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nuclear Revival: Why Now?

• Power Demand Surge: The explosive growth of data centers, especially for AI and semiconductor manufacturing, is driving a re-examination of nuclear's role in reliable, emissions-free baseload power.
• Policy Signals: Bipartisan support and federal involvement—including executive orders—signal an open door for nuclear innovation and investment.
• Changing Economics: Rising power prices and slow renewable buildout, combined with a need for energy security and emissions-free capacity, force a new look at nuclear despite lingering skepticism.

2. New York State as a Test Case

Indian Point Closure: A Turning Point

• Shortsightedness Realized: Closing Indian Point nuclear plant led to increased reliance on gas-fired generation—a step back for emissions goals ([05:09]-[06:48]).
• Governance Shift: NY Governor Kathy Hochul recently championed nuclear, calling for at least a gigawatt of new capacity to kickstart the sector's revival.

Planning for the Next-Gen Reactors

• Advanced Nuclear, Not Yesterday's Technology:

  • New York’s approach centers on advanced reactors, prioritizing safety, modularity, and efficiency ([06:48]-[09:38]).
  • Not a "one size fits all"—AP1000s, SMRs, and microreactors are all under consideration.

• Massive Need Identified:

  • Projected Load: Electrification and industrial growth could push NY’s electric load up by 25% in the next 15 years.
  • Three-Pronged Supply Expansion:
    • Fast-tracked renewables
    • Continued operation/upgrade of fossil assets
    • Scale-up of “dispatchable emissions-free resources” (with advanced nuclear as a pillar) ([11:05]-[13:44]).
  • Quote: “We need perhaps tens of gigawatts of dispatchable emissions free resources in the coming couple of decades. So yes, this one gigawatt is a great down payment. But... be on the lookout for broader policy statements.” — Doreen Harris ([09:57])

Challenges: Timeline, Technology, and Public Buy-In

• Long Lead Times:

  • Earliest operational dates for new reactors: Late 2030s to 2040 ([14:52]-[17:57]).

• Technology Choices:

  • No pre-selected reactor technology; needs to be “objectively relevant” with standardized processes to drive cost efficiencies ([23:38]-[25:05]).

• Standardization and Cost Compression:

  • New York leads coalitions (First Movers Initiative) to build a multi-state “order book” for new nuclear, aiming for economies of scale and lower costs ([25:05]-[25:23]).

• Financing and Federal Role:

  • New nuclear requires complex financial partnerships, blending state, federal, and private capital ([18:54]-[20:28]).
  • Large industrial buyers and hyperscalers (e.g., data center giants) could underwrite long-term contracts for clean firm power.

Public and Political Support

• Shift in Sentiment:
  • Younger generations and nuclear engineering students actively advocate for nuclear as clean energy.
  • Still, the challenge lies in sustaining broad, multi-year support, navigating cost concerns and residual anti-nuclear views ([26:20]-[29:58]).
  • Quote: “They have no preconceived notion about this history. It is one they see as... an objectively relevant resource that could be beneficial to our state and, frankly, the world.” — Doreen Harris ([27:57])

3. The Investment View — National Lens

Investor Skepticism:

• Legacy of Cost Overruns:
  • High-profile nuclear builds (e.g., Vogtle in Georgia) went years over schedule and billions over budget, scaring investors and power companies ([32:56]-[34:15]).
  • Nuclear projects globally recognized for financial risk, particularly first-of-a-kind endeavors.
  • Quote: “It’s not at all irrational to be skeptical.” — Nick Campanella ([34:15])

Changing Context:

• What’s Different Now:

  • Rising power prices and willingness from large buyers to pay a premium for clean, firm power ([34:15]-[35:45]).
  • Need for robust policy: Tax credits, transferability, monetizable incentives during construction ([35:22]-[35:45]).

• Customer Commitment:

  • Hyperscalers (big tech firms) wield market-shaping influence; willing to enter contracts that absorb construction risks or use creative pricing formulas (e.g., sliding scale PPAs) ([38:45]).

World of “N of a Kind”

• Economies of Scale:
  • Multiple, standardized reactors could drive costs down, crucial for investor confidence ([39:35]-[41:10]).
  • Collaborative multi-state or multi-utility models (joint ventures) are in discussion to facilitate simultaneous builds ([47:05]-[47:41]).

Timing and Pace

• Long Timelines, But No Shortcut:

  • Even with early site permits, 8-10 years from commitment to commercial operation is the norm.

  • Best hope: First new US nuclear final investment decision (FID) by 2026, likely for large-scale (AP1000-style) rather than small modular reactors ([41:10]-[45:30]).

  • Quote: “The best time to build a new nuclear plant was 20 years ago. The second best time is today.” — Ed Crooks ([43:51])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On What’s Needed for a Nuclear Revival:
  “There’s three things that allow new nuke to be built. Policy support, a customer that wants to take on a contract, and then an EPC that wants to build it.” — Nick Campanella ([00:30], [34:15])
• On the High Stakes for Early Projects:
  “These are among the most complex transactions we’ve ever undertaken... There will need to be many parties coming together to address those issues and sort of share that risk.” — Doreen Harris ([18:54])
• On the Role of Younger Generations:
  “We were thrilled to see students from University of Buffalo, Cornell, RPI... They are here to tell us that the technology is ready and that they're ready to contribute.” — Doreen Harris ([27:57])
• Investor Realism:
  “Power prices are on the rise... cost of building a new gas plant has gone up a lot... That might help nuclear power look more attractive economically. Is that enough though?” — Ed Crooks ([36:54])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:04] — Ed Crooks sets up the energy transition context, introduces nuclear as the hot topic.
• [01:41] — Discussion shifts to New York’s dramatic turnaround on nuclear policy.
• [03:27]-[04:28] — Doreen Harris details NYSERDA’s mission and her background.
• [06:48]-[09:38] — Why NY closed Indian Point, and what’s different now.
• [09:57]-[11:05] — Need for large-scale clean firm power in NY's future grid.
• [14:52]-[17:57] — Timeline and steps for new nuclear, necessity for public and private partnerships, federal support.
• [18:54]-[20:28] — Financing and transaction complexity for early new nuclear projects.
• [23:38]-[25:05] — No set technology; process for evaluating and standardizing reactor selection.
• [26:20]-[29:58] — Public support, generational shifts, and the challenge of sustaining political will.
• [31:18]-[34:15] — Ed Crooks and Nick Campanella on national investment climate and legacy of failed projects.
• [35:22]-[36:54] — Policy wish list: tax credits, carbon recognition, and customer premium pricing.
• [39:35]-[43:42] — Timelines, “N of a Kind” learning, and the problem of speed-to-power for hyperscalers.
• [45:30]-[47:05] — Investment outlook: probable FID(s) in 2026, need for scaling and new models.

Closing Thoughts

• Momentum is Real, But So Are Challenges: All parties agree: nuclear’s comeback depends on sustained policy support, customer demand, and the willingness to manage and share risk at unprecedented scale and complexity.
• New York is a Bellwether: The state’s cautious-but-ambitious approach, openness to all advanced technologies, and efforts to win both public and corporate buy-in may point the way forward.
• Next Steps: Watch for concrete policy announcements, first-mover contracts with hyperscalers, and most critically, which states and companies are ready to lay down FIDs and (finally) build.

For More Information:

• NYSERDA’s upcoming conference on advanced nuclear supply chain & workforce development: Syracuse, next week ([30:26])
• Contact the podcast with your opinions or questions at podcasts@woodmac.com

Host sign-off:
"The best time to build a new nuclear plant was 20 years ago. The second best time is today." — Ed Crooks ([43:51])