Energy Gang Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: How are businesses rethinking energy and sustainability? COP30 starts in Belem as climate action falters
Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Ed Crooks (Vice-Chairman of Energy, Wood Mackenzie)
Guests:

• Susan Uthayakumar (Chief Energy and Sustainability Officer, Prologis)
• Holly Paper (President, Commercial HVAC Americas, Trane Technologies)

Episode Overview

This episode uses interviews from New York Climate Week to set the stage for COP30 in Belem, Brazil, focusing on whether businesses are pulling back from climate action or forging new, pragmatic paths. With declining enthusiasm for ESG and heightened global energy demand, Ed Crooks seeks insights from two industry leaders—Prologis, a global logistics real estate giant, and Trane Technologies, an HVAC leader integral to data center and building energy use. The conversation centers on business-driven strategies for growth, resilience, and decarbonization amid shifting policy and market signals.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Business Attitudes Toward Climate Action

• Backdrop: Growing sentiment that businesses are de-emphasizing climate commitments, coupled with "ESG backlash".
• Prologis & Trane's Approach: Both assert sustainability is embedded in strategy, not a fading side concern, and connect business resilience and customer need to their climate agendas.

  “Sustainability is the strategy. It's not an offshoot to the strategy.” — Holly Paper (16:59)

2. Prologis: Energy as a Core Business Driver

(Guest: Susan Uthayakumar)

• Prologis at a Glance: Largest global logistics real estate company, moving 3% of the world’s GDP through 1.3 billion sq ft of facilities in 20 countries.
  [03:42]

  “We move 3% of the world's GDP through our logistics centers.” — Susan Uthayakumar

• Role of Energy in Logistics:

  • Supply chain resilience now depends on energy reliability.
  • Prologis houses 6,500 major customers needing dependable power supply.

• On-site Renewable Generation & Technology:

  • Rooftop solar and battery storage prioritized for on-site power.
  • Prologis is the #2 generator of onsite renewables in the US.
  • Integrates with the grid but also develops microgrid solutions for special use cases.
  • Technology evolution (e.g., linear generators, fuel cells) is making more solutions viable.
    [06:59, 15:23]

    “We focus on on-site generation of rooftop solar… [and] provide battery storage because the sun doesn’t always shine.” — Susan Uthayakumar

• Energy Paradox & Changing Economics:

  • Demand acceleration for electricity was underestimated.
  • Logistics facilities are turning into flexible energy hubs.
  • Microgrids are expensive but becoming more viable as needs intensify.
    [09:34]

    “The energy world is very dynamic. It's changing. What didn't make sense yesterday may make sense tomorrow.” — Susan Uthayakumar

• Emissions, Growth, and Revenue Streams:

  • On-site renewables cut emissions and create revenue, reinforcing the business case.
  • Decarbonization initiatives future-proof Prologis’ portfolio. [12:14]

    “Energy for us is a revenue stream… it behooves us to think about it that way in order to be able to scale what we're doing.” — Susan Uthayakumar

• Technology Priorities for the Future:

  • Ongoing excitement about multi-modal energy generation (solar, fuel cells, linear generators).
  • Growing importance of automation, design efficiency, and building for electrification.
    [15:23]

    “I'm really excited about the different generations of energy… it speaks to time in terms of getting that electron moving.” — Susan Uthayakumar

3. Trane Technologies: HVAC, Data Centers & AI

(Guest: Holly Paper)

• Trane Technologies at a Glance:

  • Global leader in commercial buildings and industrial HVAC solutions
  • “Sustainability is the strategy” — consistently through decades of emissions-reduction commitments.
    [16:59]

• Ambitious Climate Targets:

  • Science Based Targets initiative approved; recent “Gigaton Challenge” pledges to cut 1 billion metric tons of greenhouse gases (about France’s and Italy’s annual emissions combined).
    [17:59]

    “We always believe that one company can change an industry and the industry can change the world.” — Holly Paper

• Data Centers as Energy Flashpoints:

  • Surging demand due to AI and cloud computing massively increases energy/cooling requirements.
  • Trane’s role: delivering more efficient cooling systems, using innovations like ICE (thermal) batteries for peak shaving.
  • Advanced models: reuse waste heat from data centers for local heating (residences, Olympic pools, district systems). [20:53–23:15]

    “You’ve got data centers in the basement of residential high rises and the heating is used for the people in the building. Even the Paris Olympics, like the aquatic pools, were heated by heat from a data center.” — Holly Paper (22:53, paraphrased first by Holly, then repeated by Ed Crooks)

• Circular Energy/Community Models:

  • Integrating data centers into local energy ecosystems to reduce waste and benefit communities.
  • Public-private partnerships now extend to energy infrastructure, not just workforce development.

• Policy vs. Market-Driven Decarbonization:

  • Customer investment is mainly driven by business cases and payback periods; incentives help, but aren’t required.
  • 600+ US utility rebates for efficiency, plus tough building codes, keep momentum for upgrades independent of federal policy shifts. [27:29]

    “Anything that happens in terms of incentives, regardless of where they come from, is a tailwind, but it’s not required.” — Holly Paper

• AI in Buildings & Skilled Trades:

  • AI-driven technologies dynamically optimize building (HVAC) operations for massive energy savings (e.g., Dollar Tree’s 2,600 stores; 45% savings in Dubai commercial buildings).
  • “Blue collar AI”: AI augments skilled trade labor, bridging chronic workforce shortages and enabling rapid scaling. [29:04, 30:39]

    “The biggest problem that we all have to solve is not necessarily the technology… It’s really the ability to scale. And a lot of times it comes down to the person on the ground doing the work.” — Holly Paper

Notable Quotes & Key Moments (with Timestamps)

• The Demand Dilemma:

  “Demand acceleration I don't think was anticipated. So you have so many different parties working on how do you solve for that?... All these perspectives are colliding and getting to equations that perhaps we didn't think about before.”
  — Susan Uthayakumar (09:34)

• Rooftop Solar Priority:

  “We're the number two generator of on-site renewables in the United States… we also provide battery storage because when you think about the grid, you know, the sun doesn't always shine.”
  — Susan Uthayakumar (06:59)

• Business Resilience through Energy:

  “Resilience is absolutely paramount for people that are managing these very complex, global interconnected supply chains... if you lose energy at one particular node... then the whole thing gets thrown out.”
  — Ed Crooks (05:37)

• Circular Energy in Action:

  “Even the Paris Olympics, like the aquatic pools, were heated by heat from a data center.”
  — Holly Paper (22:53)
  “That's amazing. That's great.”
  — Ed Crooks (23:13)

• Business Case Trumps Policy:

  “Most of our customers first and foremost have aging infrastructure... anything that happens in terms of incentives, regardless of where they come from, is a tailwind, but it's not required.”
  — Holly Paper (27:29)

• Scaling Climate Solutions with AI:

  “We have solutions now that take it to the next level. And honestly, I think that you're going to see more and more and more of that because it's really... blue collar AI—like the AI that helps really get work done.”
  — Holly Paper (30:41)

Key Segment Timestamps

• Susan Uthayakumar Interview (Prologis):
  03:29 – 15:52

• Notable on rising electricity demand & supply chain resilience:
  06:02 – 09:34

• Commentary on decarbonization, business sense, & future-proofing:
  12:14 – 15:18

• Holly Paper Interview (Trane Technologies):
  16:57 – 31:29

• Notable on data center cooling & heat reuse:
  20:53 – 23:15

• AI and scaling climate action in HVAC/Buildings:
  29:04 – 30:41

Memorable Moments

• The reuse of data center waste heat in local communities, including a high-profile example at the Paris Olympics, shows the rapid evolution of circular energy models.
• Trane’s “gigaton” emissions target exemplifies the scale at which private industry can aim to move the needle, despite regulatory headwinds.

Summary Tone

Ed Crooks strikes a pragmatic but hopeful note, testing whether “business as usual” can produce genuine climate progress as policy momentum ebbs. Both guests are practical and forward-thinking, describing climate action not as a “nice to have” but as integral to growth, infrastructure resilience, customer promise, and technological leadership. The tone is evidence-based, direct, and focused on scalable impact.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Leading businesses like Prologis and Trane are doubling down on decarbonization, not stepping back—driven by resilience, efficiency, and new commercial models.
• Technology (AI, microgrids, rooftop solar, thermal storage) combined with evolving business and labor models underpins much of the progress—and the challenges ahead.
• Policy uncertainty is real, but ambitious climate action continues where the business case makes sense; market signals, customer needs, and local incentives still drive progress.
• Watch for scaling of AI solutions at both “white collar” and “blue collar” levels: operational optimization and workforce augmentation could be climate action’s next big unlock.