Podcast Summary: Energy Gang by Wood Mackenzie

Episode: How Energy Diversification Can Drive Development | Special pre-ADIPEC Preview
Date: October 29, 2025
Host: Ed Crooks
Guests: Charlotte Wolf Bai (Group Chief Sustainability Officer, Petronas), Andrew Smart (Senior Managing Director, Middle East, Accenture)

Episode Overview

This special preview episode explores how energy diversification is critical for economic development—especially for emerging economies—and how transitioning to lower-carbon energy sources can foster more resilient, prosperous, and equitable societies. The conversation also previews the themes and expectations for the upcoming ADIPEC 2025 energy conference in Abu Dhabi.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Global Perspectives on Energy Diversification

• [03:21] Host Ed Crooks flags the Western-centric bias in energy transition debates and emphasizes the importance of considering global inequality and varied regional perspectives.

• Andrew Smart highlights the Middle East’s unique position as a “pivot point” between developed and developing economies, providing an intersection for sharing innovations and opportunities, not just in energy but also in broader investment and technology sectors.

  "The Middle east sees itself at this pivot point between the global north and the global south, offering the possibility to connect opportunities from the developed world into the growth opportunities in less well energy-served nations."
  — Andrew Smart [04:05]

2. Role and Responsibility of National Oil Companies

• Charlotte Wolf Bai describes Petronas’s broader nation-building responsibilities beyond being a market player, including energy security, economic contribution ($350 billion to Malaysia since 1974), and educational support for over 39,000 people.

• She explains the concept of a “just transition”, ensuring investments (both legacy hydrocarbons and new energy value chains) create opportunities and lift people out of poverty.

  "This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity where so much investment is going into infrastructure. We have to make sure it benefits more people and really lifts people out of poverty."
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [07:17]

3. Supporting Local Supply Chains & Nature-Based Solutions

• [07:49] Petronas Supplier Support Program: Training, capacity-building, tools, and financing to help Malaysia’s 4,000+ energy vendors adapt to lower-carbon futures.

• [09:14] Nature-Based Solutions: Currently focused on forests and mangroves for generating carbon credits, with high-integrity engagement of indigenous communities.

  "We are in a mega, diverse, biologically diverse country... We need to use nature to adapt to climate change and mitigate its effects."
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [08:34]

  “Today, we hosted a roundtable with representatives from indigenous people communities to discuss... how we can uphold their rights in nature-based solution projects.”
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [09:27]

4. Interconnection & Regional Collaboration

• [11:14] Andrew Smart emphasizes the critical need for regional collaboration and interconnection (e.g., GCC grid projects) as energy systems integrate more renewables and face technological and climate disparities.

  “No one nation, no one company can be fully self-sufficient. Out of the embers of globalization, we're seeing much strengthening of regionalization.”
  — Andrew Smart [12:30]

5. Policy, Regulation, and Investment Challenges

• [15:21] Charlotte articulates the need for fit-for-purpose regulation—national and regional policies that keep up with accelerating technological change and provide bankable business models for new energy systems.

• Regulatory challenges in emerging economies are particularly steep due to limited resources and evolving market structures; close industry-government collaboration is essential.

  "The real hindrance... is the lack of fit-for-purpose regulation. It requires close collaboration between industry and decision makers."
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [16:39]

6. Finance for Energy Transition

• [18:33] Finance is highlighted as a critical but often under-met need. Charlotte contends that capacity building is essential to developing “bankable projects” that can attract finance.

• No amount of donor money will suffice; commercially viable models are essential and must be learned from international experience.

  "If you have well defined projects, finance will find it. But to develop these projects you need capacity building."
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [18:38]

7. Vision for 2035 and Beyond

• [20:09] Both guests are optimistic:

  • Malaysia’s Energy Transition Roadmap will drive demonstrator projects across renewables, hydrogen, and carbon capture, underpinned by new policies (Climate Change Acts & Policies).
  • Global Trends: With falling technology costs, aligned policy, and multilateral agreements, more countries will benefit from energy diversification, improving sustainability and security.

  “Policy is kind of key and critical... here in Malaysia it’s becoming very much aligned, but it's perhaps not true for all countries.”
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [21:37]

8. Expectations for ADIPEC 2025

• [24:07] Andrew Smart notes the advent of new “hyperscalers” and AI companies as both technology providers and major energy consumers/players—what innovations and collaborations emerge is a central interest.

• Charlotte seeks a focus on bankable business models for emerging energy value chains and hopes for visionary, provocative perspectives at the conference.

  "I want to hear some visionary and provocative perspectives that challenge industry norms and mainstream views."
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [26:37]

  “We need to collaborate like never before, but also across sectors, and ADIPEC lends itself for that.”
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [27:14]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Just Transition:
  "It is about making sure that our investments, existing into oil and gas, but also into new value chains, create as many opportunities for as many people as possible."
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [07:03]

• On Regionalization:
  “Resilience will come from interconnection... Multinational collaboration is so, so important.”
  — Andrew Smart [13:23]

• On Regulation:
  "You need strong regulation. The challenge in many emerging countries is that the ability to regulate is not always there and it's not easy."
  — Charlotte Wolf Bai [16:09]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:44 — Introduction of guests and themes
• 03:21–05:52 — Global inequality and perspectives on energy development
• 05:52–10:41 — Petronas’ just transition & nation-building role; nature-based solutions
• 11:14–13:53 — Middle East’s regional role; interconnection and transition challenges
• 15:21–17:45 — Regulation, policy needs, and regulatory challenges
• 18:33–19:51 — Finance barriers and solutions for energy transition
• 20:09–22:01 — Looking ahead to 2035: national roadmaps and global outlook
• 24:07–27:26 — Conference expectations and messages to ADIPEC attendees

Conclusion

This episode offers an insightful, regionally-nuanced view of the global energy transition, emphasizing the critical role of energy diversification, the importance of just transition policies, and the urgent need for cross-sector collaboration, policy alignment, and innovative financing. Both the Middle East and Malaysia exemplify how emerging economies are grappling with balancing legacy energy systems and new lower-carbon pathways while seeking broader socioeconomic benefits—and all eyes turn to ADIPEC 2025 to set the agenda for next-generation energy development.