The best engineer Matt Dalio ever hired didn't have a high school diploma. That fact runs through this whole conversation — what building proves that credentials can't.

Education is changing because work is changing. AI is already reshaping what people can build, how they learn, and what employers actually value — and Arizona State University has become the clearest picture of where it's going, precisely because of the reputation it had to shake.

Matt Dalio, founder of Endless, joins Eric Kasimov. Matt's work centers on one idea: young people should be creators of technology, not just consumers of it. The conversation runs from Arizona State's President Michael Crow measuring success by who a university educates instead of who it rejects, to the engineer with no diploma who outperformed the Stanford hires, to why building games might be the most complete education a kid can get, and what happens to a generation that opts out of AI versus one that learns to wield it.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

Why Arizona State University (ASU) stands out in higher education
Michael Crow's "realm five learning" — education that's infinitely scalable, infinitely personalized, infinitely affordable
What "GitHub University" shows about proof of work and why it beat the Stanford hires
Why portfolios are becoming more important than resumes
How game making teaches technical, creative, and collaborative skills
Why AI fluency may become a core workforce skill
The difference between using screens to consume and using them to build
GSV (Global Silicon Valley) and spreading the builder mindset beyond the Valley
Why young people should start building, tinkering, and solving real problems

CHAPTERS

00:00 – Arizona State University and innovation in education
01:21 – Michael Crow’s approach to access and scale
03:20 – Changing perceptions of ASU
05:33 – Why higher education has to change
07:09 – Prestige, jobs, and the shifting value of a degree
08:06 – GitHub, proof of work, and hiring without a diploma
11:26 – Why portfolio can matter more than pedigree
13:08 – AI, marketing, and what students actually need to learn
15:15 – Teaching young people to become AI power users
16:00 – Why game making teaches multidisciplinary skills
18:34 – ASU, scale, and reaching more learners
20:33 – Soft skills, collaboration, and real work
21:46 – Games, arts, media, and engineering at ASU
23:37 – Coding, Claude Code, and technical fluency
25:37 – Why Matt still believes code matters
28:07 – Screens, phones, Chromebooks, and real computers
31:42 – What Gen Z can do now
32:31 – Why schools are often anti-AI
34:33 – Building as the path to employment
35:52 – Burning your resume and building proof
37:22 – Moving from Abu Dhabi back to the US
38:34 – AI education in the UAE
39:15 – Bringing AI education to more people
40:39 – Building through contracts, partners, and foundations
42:00 – Why America needs broader access to builder skills
44:15 – Helping young people join the modern economy
45:39 – Public schools and the difficulty of scale
46:19 – Kids who are already building their own futures
49:26 – Why the traditional system still matters
50:00 – Vibe coding an SAT prep tool
52:08 – AI concerns, climate, and the risk of opting out
55:00 – Global Silicon Valley and spreading the builder mindset
57:36 – Games, sports, licensing, and learning through interests
59:06 – Game studios, communities, and professional learning
01:01:49 – Finding your passion by building
01:02:50 – Matt’s book and Endless Future
01:04:09 – The lean book and shipping early
01:04:46 – Where to find Matt Dalio and Endless

Connect

Matt Dalio: Website | LinkedIn

Eric Kasimov: X | LinkedIn

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Music by Jess & Ricky — SoundCloud