← Equipped for Life Podcast
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome back to the Equipped for Life podcast. We have a cool episode for you today. I am here with Emily and Rebecca, our typical co host. This is the usual. I know it's really confusing when we keep on going back and forth with Monica, who we love, but this is us. And we had this idea just, like, a week ago. This has all happened really fast. But here's what happened. I'm going to Washington, D.C. for, like,
- [00:25]
B
a fundraising trip and to meet some colleagues and stuff. I just need to go.
- [00:28]
A
Go up there for three days and have some meetings. So I've been reaching out to people to schedule.
- [00:33]
B
I've got 12 or 13 meetings booked in three days. It's going to be a lot.
- [00:37]
A
I reached out to one of my friends, one of my awesome pro life friends in dc, Michael New, who's just an awesome pro life activist, really smart, great researcher. He's done a lot of great research
- [00:48]
B
on the effectiveness of state laws in
- [00:52]
A
the past and stuff like that. I reached out to him and we scheduled a meeting, but then he came back to me. The next day was like, hey, would you still be available Monday evening? Because our 40 days for a Live kickoff rally is happening, and I'd love to make you the keynote if you're available. And I was. So then he's like, okay, I just need, like, 12 minutes of, like, some practical. I was like, I think I can. I was like, can I do, like, practical tips? Like, practical tips for, like, 40 days for life people and maybe, like, some inspirational stories? He's like, that's great. So I started thinking about, like, I've got, like, a few at the top
- [01:21]
B
of my head really quick.
- [01:21]
A
I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm going to come up with this list. And then I thought, we should make this a podcast. I don't want just the awesome people at the D.C. kickoff rally to hear these tips. I want everyone doing 40 days for
- [01:35]
B
life to be able to hear these
- [01:36]
A
tips, and I don't want them to just come from me. So then I thought, we should crowdsource this. So everyone, now, the three of us, and then we have reached out to a bunch of our pro life colleagues and friends in 40 days for life people. And we have asked them to. To contribute videos, short videos with their number one tip for people who are
- [01:56]
B
running 40 days for life campaigns.
- [01:58]
A
This isn't really meant as much for, like, 40 days for life leaders. This is for people who are gonna be, like, on the sidewalks. Maybe you haven't done this before or you haven't done it very much. A lot of people have done it a lot, and they have ideas. So we have crowdsourced a whole bunch of awesome tips from our favorite pro life people, at least the people who were able to respond relatively quickly. And now we're recording this episode. So anything else, Emily?
- [02:23]
C
So I just wanna take a second. If you're listening to this podcast and you're like, I'm sorry, what is 40 days for life? Josh? 32nd version. What is 40 days for life? And if I wanted to get involved in a local 40 Days for Life campaign, but I didn't know what it was, and I'm like, this sounds intriguing. How would I go about doing that?
- [02:40]
A
That's a great point that I didn't
- [02:42]
B
realize that is kind of pro life jargon.
- [02:43]
A
So 40 days for life is a pro life organization. It's a campaign that's been running 10 years now. I don't know the exact number at this point, but it's been going over 10 years. David B. Wright, one of our best friends in the movement, helped found it. And I ran the Fresno 40 days for life campaign.
- [02:59]
B
And my first year at my job in Fresno, I just got really excited.
- [03:03]
A
I heard about this thing. I was like, we should do this. I actually didn't get permission. I was just like, we had this really cool prayer warrior. I've never told this story. We had this really cool prayer warrior, Kim, this is not the 32nd version in there. And I was just like, kim, we have to do this. Can we make this happen? And then I asked John Calarini. He was like, cool, you go do that. And I learned some important things about myself. Like, there's certain things I'm not very good at, like getting a whole bunch
- [03:28]
B
of people organized to do, like, a big rally.
- [03:30]
A
So I end up spending a bunch of time in front of that planned parent to do. But 40 days for life is meant to be as typically September through November. Ish. And sometimes a spring campaign, too. Actually, a lot of the.
- [03:40]
B
I think a lot of them always do a spring campaign too.
- [03:43]
A
There will be 40 days where you are meant to be either 12 or 24 hours a day. A lot of times meant to be 24 hours a day in front of an abortion clinic, like legally on the sidewalk. And it's meant to be, not a protest, but it's like peaceful prayer witness. You're praying, you're peacefully maybe holding a sign. There are people that can do sidewalk counseling, but that's not really what 40
- [04:05]
B
days for life is training for.
- [04:07]
A
And so they're just looking for people to come and be part of this kind of long 40 days of witness. 40 days is a thing that happens in the Bible a lot. So they're sort of like referencing that and kind of looking for like a. It's hard to get people to do
- [04:21]
B
sidewalk counseling all the time or be in front of a Morrison clinic every day.
- [04:24]
A
But it's like this is like a
- [04:27]
B
marathon that we can kind of get people to do and hopefully make an impact in the community and save some lives and things like that.
- [04:34]
A
So people can look up their nearest 40 Days for Life campaign that's going
- [04:37]
B
on at 40daysforlife.com and also just learn any kind of updates from there.
- [04:43]
C
Just really quick, a couple of reasons that you might want to get involved in this. And I'm curious, Josh, if you have extra thoughts. Kind of the big reasons that I've heard that 40 Days for Life is really impactful. Number one, we obviously have just the power of prayer. Getting all those people out there praying outside of the facility, giving 12 hour or 24 hour coverage, that's just a really powerful thing to do in this spiritual battle that we're also in here. Number two, we also have a lot of data about no show rates. So when there are people outside of an abortion facility, the no show rate for abortion goes up dramatically. And so the more people there are, the more it discourages people from coming. And so that is another kind of effect of being there is we can actually prevent abortions just not even by talking to anybody, but literally by just having people standing outside of the abortion facility. And the third thing being that we can create kind of community awareness about what the abortion facility is. There may be people driving by who don't realize that this is an abortion facility. And kind of creating that kind of community. Outrage isn't a great word, but like trying to get the community aware, hey, abortions are happening here. A lot of people in their community think that that is bad and wrong and you should get involved with that too. Kind of that creation of community conversation about it. So Those are the three big reasons I've heard why 40 days for life is really effective. Super curious. If you have more you want to
- [06:08]
B
add to that list, you nailed it with the third thing. So, Rebecca.
- [06:11]
D
Yeah, just. Am I right that you don't have to be Catholic, you don't have to be Christian to participate in a 40 days for life campaign? So, like, yes, that's correct. You don't have to believe in the power of prayer like that those two. Second, two, second and third. There we go. Second and third. Reasons that Emily gave are things that everybody who's pro life has access to and are really, really powerful.
- [06:31]
A
Yeah, I think they might. I'd have to.
- [06:33]
B
I haven't read the volunteer Agreement in a long time.
- [06:35]
A
I think they might encourage everyone to be religious. I don't know if they have, like, a thing that's like, as explicit as if you're agnostic. You're welcome and just, like, hang out. I don't know if there's something like that in 40 days for life. I've always thought of that as inherently religious. But what I meant at least is they're not trying to make it sectarian. They're not trying to make it Catholic versus Protestant, like, versus, like love life.
- [06:59]
B
Charlotte here, locally in Charlotte is very, very Protestant. There is not Catholic presence. Really part of that. And that's kind of by design. 40 days for life is not like that. 40 days for life is kind of just meant to be broad.
- [07:12]
A
I don't know how they would characterize
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B
as far as, like, as broad as far as, like, atheists and agnostics. We'd have to ask them. I don't know.
- [07:19]
A
I did reach out to some of my agnostic friends. I asked Monica first. I was like, is it weird if I ask you for tips for 40 days for life? People like, I know it's a prayer thing. She's like, no, it's not weird at all. It's like, great. I want. I want you involved. I just don't want it to be weird. So, yeah, so we have a couple
- [07:35]
B
of atheists that we've gotten videos from too, that I think will be great.
- [07:41]
C
Well, maybe we should just start there then. Let's grab one of the atheists. I know Herb is also on our list. I think we had two atheists that we asked Monica and Herb, who are both work at Secular Pro Life. And so let's get started with one of those, because I'm just really curious to start hearing what people have to say and how those tips kind of align with what we all have had in our experience. This is going to be awesome.
- [07:59]
B
Love it. All right.
- [08:00]
A
And I haven't heard hardly any of these.
- [08:02]
B
So we are all live reacting to these. I expect this to be awesome. But. But we don't know what these are.
- [08:08]
E
Hey, Herb Garrity here from Secular Pro Life. My first piece of advice to anyone considering getting outside on the sidewalk is to just do it. I hear from pro life people all the Time that they want to. They think it's important, but. But they're afraid they're not gonna do it right, that they're not gonna know the right thing to say and they're gonna mess up. I'm here to tell you you do not need to worry about that. The unfortunate fact is that most people going into the abortion clinic have already made up their minds and there's no perfect one thing you can say that's going to make them choose life. However, I am out there because of the women in my life who I love, who have been harmed by abortion and, and who have told me that if there was just one person during their pregnancy that told them, you can do this, we can help, we have resources for you that maybe they wouldn't have gone through with that decision. And I believe that for those women, there's almost nothing wrong that you can say. Of course, listen to Eri. Do the trainings, learn the best practices for how to be the most approachable. But what's most important is being there. Because also, even if no one talks to you, if you see no saves, the entire time that you're out there on the sidewalk, you still are in your community representing the pro life cause and showing that we are not going to allow abortionists in our communities to just go on business as usual. No, we are out there and at least representing that this is not okay, that there are people who are opposed to this. And for anyone who feels as though abortion is their only option, we are representing that that is not the case. We are here to step up as pro lifers and be the village so that you don't have to feel like you're going at this alone. That's what pro lifers on the sidewalk do. That is just the first step. Once a woman chooses life, there's a whole lot of work after that to actually support her. But the number one first step is to meet those women where they are. And unfortunately where they are is at the abortion clinic on that day. So we need to be there.
- [10:13]
B
This is so good.
- [10:14]
D
Yeah.
- [10:15]
C
I really love his emphasis on, yes, the importance of talking, but that there is so much value in not talking, in just being there. Because especially if this is your first time getting involved in a 40 days for life campaign, like most of the people I know who talk outside of abortion facilities, that's because they've been doing this for years and they're really comfortable with what to do. They didn't start that way their first time going in to abortion facility. Probably their first 30 times going to an abortion facility were not trying to engage with anyone. It was just being that presence, watching, listening, learning, maybe holding a loving sign. But I really love his emphasis there on. I love specifically when he said we don't want the community to think that this can just go on business as usual. We don't want people to think that this abortion facility is totally fine with everyone here. Nobody has a problem with it. I think that just showing people there is opposition to this is a really valuable thing. And I love that her brought that up.
- [11:14]
D
Yeah. And like you talked about Emily with the no show rates, like just being there is really, really, really powerful and being there with a kind presence. I think obviously there are ways that you can engage at the clinic that are not helpful, but they're pretty easy to avoid. They involve things like holding signs that say you're a murderer or yelling at people. So if you're going to be there, don't do that. But also don't feel like you have to have like the perfectly crafted thing to say or that you have to say anything or you have to have the perfect thing sign. Your kind, peaceful presence is really, really impactful, even if you feel like you don't know what you're doing.
- [11:46]
B
I'll go a step beyond that. I have had interesting conversations with a few people who follow us, who have
- [11:53]
A
said things about themselves that showed a
- [11:55]
B
level of self awareness that was like,
- [11:58]
A
I don't think I should be the
- [12:00]
B
one talking to pro choice people.
- [12:02]
A
I'm not the part that's not my role in the movement because bad things tend to happen. I just get so angry. Abortion makes me inherently so ang. I can't talk about it without steam coming out of my ears. And so I'm glad that people like you are training people to do that well. But I should be doing this other thing or whatever. I'll say I would love for more
- [12:26]
B
people to be doing sidewalk counseling and getting trained to do that.
- [12:29]
A
But it is okay to want to get trained for that first before you
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B
go and try to do that.
- [12:34]
A
So we just want to give you permission. It is totally okay to just stand
- [12:39]
B
there, hold a sign, pray be that witness. They are looking for more people too, by the way. A lot of times, like a lot
- [12:46]
A
of the 40 days for life campaigns, I remember the difference. We had to have at least two and it stunk when it was only two. There was a lot of times when it was just two versus there was this lovely family that had eight or nine kids and they would bring the whole family out. There's really cute homeschool kids and matching denim outfits. It was adorable. Like, anytime there were a lot of
- [13:09]
B
people there, it made a big difference visually versus just like a few, like, kind of like people that seem kind of like random.
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A
Like, who are they when there's like
- [13:16]
B
a half dozen people are there or something like that.
- [13:19]
C
Yeah. And I remember hearing David Be Right talk about the fact that there is actual data on. That they've got data on the no show rates versus how many people are there and that the more people there are, the more the no show rate goes up. Like, it's like it does go up even when there's one person standing outside. But if you've got five, if you've got 10, like, literally, you adding one more person to the sidewalk does actually make a big difference.
- [13:44]
D
I also have a tip. I think Josh and Emily both recorded videos, so we'll get to see theirs later. I had not one, but two work trips last week and I did not get to a point where I could film this week. So I'm just going to tell it to you now.
- [13:54]
C
Here is my tip.
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B
Understandable.
- [13:57]
D
I think I would say the most important thing when you're on the sidewalk, whether you're talking with people or whether you're just holding a sign is actually the care that you give your own body. I think your most important.
- [14:08]
A
I'm so glad you're saying this.
- [14:09]
D
Your most important job is literally to breathe. Because what we want to offer women on the sidewalk, whether we're talking with them or whether we're just there holding a sign and being there offering peaceful witness, is safety and care. And you cannot give someone felt safety that you don't have. You cannot help someone feel calm and able to make decisions and cared for. If you feel really stressed. I don't know if you've ever tried to calm down a baby when you're super stressed, it doesn't work. You have to be calm to give your body's calm to another person's body. And that's true whether you're talking with an infant yet. True.
- [14:49]
C
Yep. Yeah.
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D
Yeah.
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A
The animals pick up on your vibe. What is your energy like? They are picking up more on that
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B
than what you're saying.
- [14:56]
C
Yep.
- [14:57]
A
Your actions are very much speaking louder than words. You're being tense is not subtle. They can tell and it's having a total effect.
- [15:05]
D
And that's true for humans, too, because we're all animals and we all have bodies.
- [15:09]
B
Yep.
- [15:09]
C
I even want to take your tip a Step further. Rebecca. This is so good. Like, when I think about a woman who is considering an abortion and going into an abortion facility, she is very likely in a place of stress. Yes, she is worried about something in her life that is driving her to do this. And if I imagine her standing in the parking lot and she is feeling immense stress and she is looking to relieve that, and it seems like the abortion clinic is the place that's going to relieve that. And then you're standing over here and if you are also giving off stress, get which direction she's going to go, definitely into the clinic. Whereas if it feels like actually over here with the pro lifers, that is a place of peace, I could potentially find the peace and the way out of this panic situation I'm in right now. I could find that over there with them. The abortion clinic no longer seems like the only place that can provide that kind of peace and safety that she's looking for. So I love that.
- [16:11]
D
I'll take it even a step further. Most women who walk into the abortion clinic are in the middle of trauma, are in the middle of our bodies and brains responses to extreme stress, particularly extreme stress without an empathetic witness. So that means that their prefrontal cortexes are offline, the part of our brain that helps us make thought through decisions, and they're acting out of stress. And often pro lifers on the sidewalk are in the same boat because it's a really stressful place to be. We care a lot. The stakes are really high. What we think is happening here is the killing of an innocent person.
- [16:49]
C
And.
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D
And it's just stressful to be in a place where you're likely to be perceived as, or could be perceived as an enemy. And yeah, I think what we most need to offer these women is an empathetic witness is an opportunity to be seen and felt and to receive safety from someone else's body. Just like comforting an infant, just like sitting with a friend who's having a really hard time and offering your comforting presence there, and you cannot do that without offering your own body calmness and safety and care. Because we can't give what we don't have.
- [17:25]
B
Rebecca, if someone was on the sidewalk and like, that is what they wanted, but they maybe noticed themselves feeling more tense than they're wanting, and they're wanting to figure out in this moment, how can I try to get back to the place that I want to be in? Because this is not about me. This is about the people here that I'm trying to serve. It's not about me right now. We want to take care of ourselves. Like, I want to be able to serve this person. What would you recommend people do in those moments when they're feeling more tense than they would like to be?
- [17:56]
D
Yeah, I think, honestly, I would say it is about you. Like, you have to give yourself care now. In order to be able to care, well, it has to be you first. You have to receive care before you can give it. You have to have calmness and safety in your body before you can give it. And so if you need to take breaks, take breaks. If you need to walk away and look at trees and grass, walk away and look at trees and grass. I think really, literally just breathing, if all you remember is breathe out of this whole tip, Breathe. Take a long, deep breath. Feel it filling your chest and your back and your belly and let it out. Feel what that feels like in your body. Notice your feet on the ground. Notice the ground supporting your feet. Notice the sensations of your socks against your feet. Notice what that feels like. If you're feeling stressed, you can talk with someone else who's there. If you have a friend there, you can ask for a hug. But just notice what care your body
- [18:52]
B
needs and offer it that it reminds me of that. I know this is such a cliche, but it's that airplane. You've got to put the oxygen mask on your own face before you help other people thing. I keep on having to remind myself of that. That's really, really good.
- [19:06]
D
And sometimes, actually, I used to think that was selfish. Well, but if I'm sitting next to my baby sister or whatever as a kid, like, obviously, I want to, like, help her first. And I learned more recently. Yeah, that's not because, like, the instruction is you need to be selfish because your life matters more than other people's. It's because you become useless a lot sooner than you become dead on an airplane. You cannot. If you don't have enough oxygen, like, you're going to lose the ability very quickly to be able to put somebody else's mask on. You literally cannot give what you don't have. It's not selfish. It's necessary. And also, if it is a little selfish, great, because you matter too.
- [19:43]
F
Yes.
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B
You really do.
- [19:46]
A
Okay, are you ready for another video?
- [19:47]
D
Let's do it.
- [19:48]
C
We're so ready.
- [19:49]
A
Okay. This is awesome. This is Christy Burkhart. She is the director of the Fresno Pregnancy Center. Some of you who have been following
- [19:57]
B
ERI for a while, you've actually seen Christy before.
- [20:00]
A
She's in her sidewalk counseling course, she came on so she could kind of help sidewalk counselors know how to form a trusting relationship with the local pregnancy
- [20:11]
B
center and kind of sidewalk counsel more effectively like that.
- [20:13]
A
So she's lovely. She's been on our advisory board for forever.
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B
So this is Christy's tip.
- [20:22]
G
Hi, I'm Kristi Burkhart, the executive director of the Pregnancy Care center in Fresno, California. I want you to know that you are impacting our world and building a culture of life as you serve on the sidewalk. Thank you for reaching the moms and dads who are making crucial decisions regarding their pregnancies. Remember that when you treat them with dignity and respect that you are reaching into the womb and helping them make better decisions for their own lives and for the child that they're bearing. And please also get to know your local pregnancy resource center or medical center so that you can refer moms and dads to them so that they can continue and receive free medical services, advocacy, education and resources so that we can walk with them through their pregnancy and right into parenting.
- [21:11]
B
Awesome. Yep, that's a really good one.
- [21:13]
C
I always encourage pro life people to get to know their local pregnancy center. Like that feels really obvious. Except people don't do it. I have never met a pregnancy center director who is not thrilled when people from the community call and say, I'd love to have a tour, I'd love to meet you. And my biggest reason that you should do this is exactly what Christy just said. You need to get to know the pregnancy center so you can effectively refer. And I think it is so much more impactful if you were to meet an abortion minded woman. It is so much more impactful for you to be able to say to her, hey, I know the people at this pregnancy center that's in our town. They're my friends. Can I introduce you to these friends of mine? I trust them. Like, if you can have this relationship with the pregnancy center where you've met them before and you know them, it becomes so much more meaningful than if you're just saying to the woman, well, I know there's a pregnancy center in our town. So here, let me, let me google the name of it and figure out where exactly it is. Like that just, it doesn't come across as trustworthy. As if you can say like, oh, I've been there. They're my friends, I know them. Can I help you get connected to these people that I know? That just feels so much more impactful.
- [22:26]
A
That way it's gonna feel safer too. Like I'm sorry. There are some pregnancy centers that are not great. Like, a lot of them are great. Like, I've spoken for a bunch all across the country. I love, I've. I've toured so many of these places and met their staff. There's a lot of really, really wonderful pregnancy centers.
- [22:43]
H
But.
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B
But not all of them. Not all of them.
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A
Some of them are churches who were well meaning and they bought a house and they just staffed it with some volunteers.
- [22:52]
B
And they've never gone through a Care Net conference or a heartbeat training or
- [22:56]
A
all these different things that help with quality control. So just being able to be like, I know these people, I know they're safe, they're awesome.
- [23:04]
B
I would love to introduce you to them. I know them. That kind of thing I think is really, really helpful.
- [23:11]
A
It's also good. This is kind of a little bit like behind the scenes from like the pregnancy center perspective though is a lot of times pregnancy centers, like, they're going
- [23:19]
B
to have very strict rules and like policies and procedures for like what their staff and even their volunteers can do.
- [23:26]
A
A lot of times they will not
- [23:27]
B
be allowed to participate in a 40 days for life type campaign or like sidewalk counseling because they're trying to keep a separation between those two things.
- [23:36]
A
Understandably so because they're wanting you to be able to be like, they're safe, it's totally fine. They have like, not like it's not connected. So they're typically going. They're always going to want you at least to make sure they are comfortable. The pregnancy center is comfortable. If you are going to be passing
- [23:52]
B
out like their literature.
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A
Do not pass out pregnancy center literature
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B
without their permission just because, like you grabbed a handful on a table or something like that.
- [24:01]
A
Like, they want to make sure you're also going to represent them.
- [24:06]
B
Okay.
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A
Even as someone who's separate. So just kind of like this relationship,
- [24:10]
B
being a trusting relationship both ways is just going to be really helpful.
- [24:13]
A
And if you want more tips on how to do that, we totally spelled it out in the sidewalk counseling masterclass. We don't talk about it often enough, but it is a really awesome online course. And Christy goes into detail here step by step, how if I were a sidewalk counselor, knowing me as a pregnancy center director, how I would establish that
- [24:33]
B
relationship and what it can look like if you establish that relationship.
- [24:38]
A
So yeah, there are just a lot of really excellent tips in there if you're going to be doing a lot
- [24:43]
B
of 40 days for life crossover stuff in that course.
- [24:47]
A
So definitely check that out. Sailboatcounselymasterclass.com okay, now let's go to Michael New. Michael New sent one in. He also does 40 Days for Life stuff. And I reach out to we went kind of back in a few circles. I was like, would you want to do a tip for our podcast for the thing for. And he was happy to apply.
- [25:06]
B
So let's pull his up.
- [25:08]
H
40 days for life Captains, this is Michael New. I direct the 40 Ace for Life campaign here in Washington, D.C. i have also directed a campaign in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I wanted to give you some free advice for your fall campaigns. The best advice I can give you is to leverage your strengths. Here in Washington, D.C. we have a lot of pro life leaders, also a lot of famous pro lifers who visit town. So we have some excellent speakers at our rally. We've had Bishop Coffey from the Military Archdiocese. We've had Katharine Glenn Foster, who used to run Americans United for Life. We've had Kristen Day who runs Democrats for Life. We've had Mark Hauck. We're in this fall. We're very lucky. We have the Equal Rights Institute's very own Josh Bromp is speaking at our kickoff rallies. So we try to leverage our strengths by having great speakers at our kickoff and closing rallies. I also want to say that don't fret about having the perfect campaign if mistakes are made. If you don't feel Every Hour, Every 40 Days to Life campaign makes a valuable contribution in building a culture of life. Take care and God bless.
- [26:07]
B
That's great.
- [26:08]
D
Yeah, that's true. On the sidewalk too. And we talked about this earlier. For people running 40 days for life campaign, perfection is not the goal. For people on the sidewalk, perfection is not the goal. Like just being there, just doing the thing, just showing up. If you can't show up for 10 hours a week or 5 hours a week or 2 hours a week, show up for 1 hour a week and be there and contribute.
- [26:29]
C
I also loved how he brought up the kind of opening and closing rally thing. We haven't really talked about that yet, but that's Standard for most 40 days for life campaigns. And even if you're not in D.C. and you don't have access to awesome, great speakers, just focusing on trying to make your opening and closing rallies inspiring is a great thing to just kind of make your kernel, make that your goal is what can we do? Who can we bring in from our community? Or what can we do? How can we inspire people and how can we build a little bit of community for the people that are Actually gonna be doing the rest of this campaign. One of my favorite 40 days for life campaigns is in Iowa, and the leader sent in a clip, so we'll get him.
- [27:09]
A
Is this Jim Burke?
- [27:10]
C
Yes, Jim Burke. Hi, Jim. So, Jim Burke, his campaign has for years after their opening rally, and I think also after their closing rally, there's, like, a pizza place that's right nearby, and they just take everybody to the pizza place, and it turns into, like, a community building event, too. So you get to meet some of the other people that will be doing 40 days for life with you. You just get to really create this kind of coalition of, like, yes, we're doing this thing. We didn't all just show up to hear the speaker. Like, we were also in this group together participating in this, and I love that. So whatever you can do to make it inspiring, bring in some speakers or even if you're just putting it together yourself, and you can't do that. Just inspire people, build community. I feel like that's really the two goals of that opening and closing rally.
- [27:54]
B
Yep. Totally agree. I also like that he had a tip about not being a perfectionist, because as a recovering perfectionist, we just always need these reminders a lot. So that was also a good little bonus tip that you threw in there.
- [28:06]
A
All right, now we have Emily's video. Emily sent in a video. I'm very curious about what you said.
- [28:12]
I
Hey, it's Emily. Make sure that your presence, your signs, your demeanor, your clothing, all of it. Make sure that your presence is inviting, making people comfortable, approaching you and talking
- [28:20]
C
to you, even if you have zero
- [28:22]
I
intention of talking to anyone. I am not saying that you necessarily should talk to anyone during your campaign. I am saying you should take great care to look inviting and approachable, because it's our natural human tendency to group people as all the same. We know it's easy to assume that
- [28:37]
C
every pro choice person in the world
- [28:38]
I
is exactly like that one really nasty one you saw online. And we shouldn't assume that, but the reality is that we do.
- [28:44]
C
We all do that.
- [28:46]
I
So remember that the people driving past the clinic will do that, too. Imagine there's someone just driving down the street doing errands who sees your 40 Days for Life campaign, and then six months later, that same person is pregnant and they're driving in to get an abortion. Yes, they're going to remember what that 40 Days for Life campaign six months ago looked like. And attach that same impression to the sidewalk counselor they see standing outside today.
- [29:06]
C
Or when they see a Pro life
- [29:07]
I
club Tabling back on their college campus or what they see you wearing and doing will either increase or decrease the likelihood that they're willing to dialogue with the pro life people at that table later on, Every pro life person they see or interact with either increases or decreases the likelihood that they're willing to dialogue with the next pro life person they see. So be a presence that increases that likelihood.
- [29:29]
B
So good.
- [29:30]
A
Like, there's a part of me that
- [29:31]
B
was thinking about doing that, and I'm really glad that I didn't do that
- [29:34]
A
as my tip, because I probably thought about. Because that was like our number one tip in the cyboc counseling masterclass. I refer to this all the time
- [29:42]
B
in my donor meetings. When this comes up, it's like, look,
- [29:44]
A
there's a lot of wonderful, wonderful things
- [29:46]
B
in the sailboat counseling masterclass. It's awesome. Absolutely. I mean, Jacob is such an amazing storyteller. Just for the stories alone and the
- [29:52]
A
advanced cool things he's doing. He's doing sidewalk counseling differently than most
- [29:57]
B
people do, which is why we made a course.
- [29:58]
A
We wanted people to kind of see this kind of a cool, really relational approach that. That can work sometimes really well.
- [30:04]
B
And here's kind of what that can look like.
- [30:07]
A
But in the end of the day,
- [30:10]
B
the most important thing comes down to just being approachable. You have 10 seconds or eight seconds between her car door and the front door of that clinic.
- [30:20]
A
How can you optimize the chances that
- [30:21]
B
she is going to come over to you and talk to you?
- [30:24]
A
How can you optimize the chances that
- [30:25]
B
her boyfriend will later come out and talk to you?
- [30:28]
A
Like what your sign looks, how, what it says, the way that you look,
- [30:31]
B
the way that you're dressed.
- [30:33]
A
There's a lot of weird things to avoid. Don't hang fetal models from trees. That's the actual thing. Don't, like, stick them in trees like Easter eggs. That's like, weird things to avoid, but
- [30:45]
B
in the end be approachable.
- [30:47]
A
The other thing I loved that you
- [30:49]
B
said, Emily, is just acknowledging the really human, universal things that we all do.
- [30:56]
A
It's not just, don't do this.
- [30:59]
B
We all do this.
- [31:00]
A
We are all doing this kind of all the time.
- [31:02]
B
And having to make it something like a spiritual discipline to not do it, to be avoiding it, not be prejudging people. So I love that you added that. That was great.
- [31:13]
D
One of my favorite pro choice people of all time, one of my probably top three favorite pro choice people of all time came up to our table on USC's campus. So not sidewalk counseling but similar kind of thing, and at least in this respect. And she said, well, I love what you guys are doing here. You're having these dialogues. She stuck around for like an hour or more. And whenever people voted in like the pro life bucket, she'd go talk to them and say, I want their ideas to be pushed back on. I want them to be invited to think in the way that you're inviting pro choice people to think. And we're like, this is great. And then she said, we didn't change her mind that day. Like, she's still pro choice, but she said, I want people to come talk to you guys. And the way that some of you are dressed is getting in the way of that. Like, you look super, super Christian or super super not the way that USC students typically dress. And that's off putting to people. And I love so much that she wanted people to come talk to us and wanted to help us be more approachable. And also, I think she's right. Like, the way that we dress makes us look similar to or different from the people that we're interacting with. And to the degree that it fits within your personal style and your convictions or anything like that, anything that can make you look more like the people who are walking into the clinic will make you more approachable to them.
- [32:25]
A
We've got Jim Burke now. Let's do Jim Burke's now. Speaking of the awesome person.
- [32:30]
C
Oh, my gosh, I love Jim Burke.
- [32:31]
A
Let's do Jim Burke.
- [32:32]
F
When people drive by and you're doing 40 days for life, a lot of them may resort to shouting out the window or holding up certain fingers that are not so pleasant. How do we respond? We wave.
- [32:46]
B
Yes.
- [32:47]
F
First off, it draws attention. People tend to look where there's motion. And so anybody else who's in the vicinity, they will see you and they'll see that, hey, you look pleasant, you are responding nicely. A lot of them won't have seen the original person's communication toward you point. And so that may actually make them think that that person is also on your side. If they do see that the other side, the other person was doing something negative, they see that you return good when others do evil.
- [33:28]
B
That's awesome.
- [33:29]
C
There's so much about that tip that I love. And I have some more context I want to add, because Jim and I were literally emailing back and forth about this because as soon as he gave me a little heads up what his tip was going to be, and I was like, jim, this is so good. Because I remember I work with their group, the Coalition for Life of Iowa is one of our affiliate groups. And so I meet with their leaders regularly. And I remember when they were kind of first figuring this out, where they were trying to kind of workshop, what should we do when somebody puts up their middle finger or someone screams out their car window, something nasty or something like that? And I think everything Jim said is correct. Waving and smiling. Like, the reason that worked so well for them is because it drew attention to the group rather than to the person that had actually done the action. So everyone else around who was driving by who likely didn't see what that person did now was just seeing, oh, there's happy, lovely, smiley people on the sidewalk. And it just draws the energy away from that negativity. And it can also then cause other people who are driving by to respond positively because they see you waving. They're possibly assuming that that first person was actually a positive reaction, not a negative one, because you responded positively. And so now this person over here responds positively. So just for a tiny bit of data that Jim gave me, this is not exact because he didn't have the exact numbers on him. But there was someone in this group that actually did some stats on this where they tracked before they started the smiling and waving method, what, like, ratio of positive to negative interactions were they having? And so they were currently at that time having to, like, negative responses vertu Every one positive response. But then they started smiling and waving and it flipped. They started getting two positive responses for every one negative response. Just with that one simple change of anytime that somebody does something negative towards you, just smile and wave back. And it would start to reciprocate with other people doing like a nice little tap and wave from their car or whatever. And so it just completely changed the vibe of the sidewalk when you encouraged positive interactions rather than either ignoring them or doing negative interactions back.
- [35:43]
A
So if you're struggling, you're trying to figure out how to respond, just think
- [35:46]
B
of the penguins in Madagascar. The smile and wave, boy, the smile and wave.
- [35:52]
D
Kindness is contagious. And I guess I'd also add like notice because it is going to hit your body, especially if you've not experienced this a lot. Like, it's. There's going to be an impact on, like, physically how the emotions show up in your body when someone flips you off or yells something at you. So notice that. Pay attention to it. Don't try to, like, shove it down. It doesn't work. And offer it some kind care. Take a deep breath and let your Smiling and waving be genuine kindness and warmth. Not like, hey, we get to stick it to you by changing the tone of the conversation and making other people respond to us. I'm not saying anybody would actually have that approach, but let your smile and wave as much as you can come out of. Again, offering yourself some care and then being able to genuinely care for and love the people that you're waving at who just flipped you off.
- [36:40]
B
No, this is a really good reminder
- [36:42]
A
because I absolutely know people who sometimes get that, like, yeah, I'm going to keep some. Some hot coals on your head by being awesome.
- [36:50]
I
Ha ha ha.
- [36:51]
A
It's gonna be like this. And it's like, we don't see what's happening maybe, but it's like, yeah, this is a good thing for us to try to avoid.
- [36:56]
B
That's not like, the most ideal thing.
- [36:58]
A
I imagine this works with honks, too.
- [37:00]
B
Like, if people are honking, you don't always necessarily know. Is this a positive honk or a negative honk?
- [37:05]
A
Both can happen.
- [37:06]
C
Smile and wave.
- [37:07]
B
Smile and wave.
- [37:07]
C
Boy, they're all puzzling. That reminds me, one other tip in our sidewalk counseling masterclass that I think is super relevant here is it can be. If you're looking for a sign to hold for your 40 days for life campaign, the sign honk if you're pro life. It's amazing because then what happens is you can assume all the honks are pro life and pro choice. People who are about to honk see the sign and then they're annoyed and they can't honk because they don't want people to think they're pro life. Or sometimes you get the very funny reaction of a pro choice person, like honking and then seeing the sign. And then you see them be mad at themselves that they think that you think that they're pro life when they're not. It's genius. Honk if you're pro life. Great sign for your 40 days for life campaign.
- [37:54]
A
If you only have one sign, I probably wouldn't make it the only sign, but if you got, like a sign directed to her too, then, yeah, it's a great second or third sign.
- [38:02]
D
I love it.
- [38:03]
A
Okay, this is Rebecca Dyer. She is awesome. She works with justice for All. She's also got a lot of experience. How about counseling? We actually have a couple of podcasts Jacob and I recorded several years ago, reacting to some videos that Rebecca had taken outside of maybe one or a couple of abortion clinics in the Southern California area. She was dealing with weird security guards and police and stuff. And we kind of took it as an opportunity to talk about what do you do in these situations? And so we'll link to those episodes. They're pretty interesting. They're pretty niche. But that was Rebecca Dyer. So it's great to see her again. And here's what she had to say.
- [38:41]
J
My number one tip for sidewalk counseling is have the first thing that you say to people be something kind and compassionate. Because people going into abortion clinics have been told that people like you and I don't care about them and what they are experiencing. And that's not true. So one of the first things I will say to people as they're walking in is something like, I'm really sorry if this is a hard day for you today. Are you here for abortion? Because if you are, I can help you. I think that approach is really important because it communicates that our heart is to help them and not judge them. And I also think it's really important to ask a direct question to find out why they are there, because not everyone going into abortion clinics are actually there for that. I think if we want to save unborn children, we have to reach the hearts of the people that are going into abortion clinics. And I know that if I was in their shoes, I would be drawn to someone that is kind and compassionate.
- [39:35]
B
That's great.
- [39:36]
D
Yeah. And that goes for what your signs say, too, because the first impression a woman will have of you, even if you are talking to them, and certainly if you're not, is your sign, not your spoken words. So making sure that those are kind and compassionate, too. I know Jacob recommended in the course here to help not to judge is a really helpful sign, particularly I really, really like that.
- [39:57]
B
I think that's still my favorite sign, if I remember right. But I know we have a bunch listed, like, a bunch of, like, at least half dozen options, like, listed in the shape of a counseling masterclass materials.
- [40:06]
A
It's also a really good reminder. Like, this might seem basic to us, but, like, I know there's been a lot of people that have needed the
- [40:10]
B
reminder, especially if they're doing, like, going to an abortion clinic and do anything for the first time.
- [40:15]
A
Just remembering these are not necessarily all abortion patients, especially if you're in front of a Planned Parenthood. It might be like, a lot of these people might be there for birth control. They might be there for, you know,
- [40:25]
B
like a gynecological checkup.
- [40:26]
A
Like, there's all kinds of different reasons
- [40:28]
B
people go to Planned Parenthood. It's not just abortion.
- [40:31]
A
It Might be that the people who
- [40:34]
B
had been doing selbuk counseling might have
- [40:35]
A
a good idea of when they're doing abortions. Because it's really, really helpful when you're selbal counseling to know that Fridays is
- [40:41]
B
the abortion day because sometimes it's a day or two.
- [40:44]
A
But don't just assume. You don't want to be that person that kind of is scowling at every single person going in because you don't even realize you're scowling. But inside you have this.
- [40:58]
B
I feel like I know what's going on there and I'm upset about or
- [41:01]
A
maybe just really sad. Maybe you just feel really sad, but you've got that resting, you know what face thing that happened. I've got that. You just don't know how you come across sometimes. Just try to drop those assumptions. There are so many different things that
- [41:14]
B
can be going on with these people. So be non judgmental and just offering to help. There is a theme. There is a theme to some of these. There's only so much.
- [41:24]
A
Okay, mine's the next one. Okay, my tip isn't going to be for everybody, but I think it'll be
- [41:31]
B
really helpful if you can do it.
- [41:34]
A
Because if you're going to be doing some kind of public facing ministry, if
- [41:37]
B
you're going to be going on the
- [41:38]
A
sidewalk and expecting that maybe pro choice people might want to talk to you or have questions, especially post Dobbs where people are more interested in talking to pro life people than they were before. I think it would be really helpful if you were following some kind of a relatively neutral news source. I'm going to specifically recommend Tingle. I've been recommending people to follow Tingle
- [42:04]
B
for years and years now.
- [42:05]
A
I know there's a bunch of ERI people that are already on Tingle's newsletter list and I love that. But that way you're getting kind of what is the biggest story of the day? And kind of what are some thoughtful things coming from the right on that? What are some thoughtful things coming from the left? Here's kind of their take and you're getting some really interesting, interesting things we're thinking about. And again, if a pro choice person comes up to you and asks you, hey, what do you think about this thing that just happened? This major, major thing that the president that presumably at least in their mind you supported did, it's not going to be helpful if you're like, I have no idea. I've never heard of that really, really
- [42:47]
B
big thing that they did.
- [42:49]
A
It's understandable. There are some People that really need to not be following a lot of news. I get that I'm in that place a lot of times, but if you can, you could at least be following this one thing. And sometimes when I am not able to be following other news sources because it's making me insane, I can follow this one and it actually helps keep me sane. Because you're not getting a bunch of extreme takes, you're getting really level headed, rational takes. Subscribe to at least one great source like that where you can get the basic, most important news. Be getting outside of your echo chamber, getting outside of conference information bias.
- [43:25]
B
So you're hearing thoughts from both the right and the left on these different things.
- [43:29]
D
I love that. It also brings up like there are different kinds of conversations that can come up on the sidewalk. Like you might end up talking with a woman who's there to have an abortion or there because she's thinking about abortion. Or you also might have different kinds of conversations with just pro choice people driving by who are interested in what you think or interested in telling you what they think. So those two are very, very different kind of conversations. I would say like in a conversation with a woman who's abortion minded, like current news things are unlikely to come up. Honestly, even like a lot of the apologetics material that we teach and the like detailed arguments are unlikely to come up because she's living this right now. Like you don't. I think maybe Jacob said something like this in the course, but you don't like teach somebody about oxygen and heat and all the things that a fire needs to get going and philosophize about it with them when they're in the middle of a burning house. And women who are walking into an abortion clinic are in the middle of a burning house. Their brains are in trauma mode. They need your kindness and warmth and care and they probably need fewer words. Whereas if you're talking with a pro choice person who just happened to be driving by, it's important to remember that they have a story, they have a reason that they care about this just like you do. They have a reason that they decided to stop and talk to you. And so kindness and warmth are also important. But you're more likely in that kind of conversation to get into current news kinds of topics or even just philosophy and kind of the more abortion apologetics arguments that we talk about.
- [44:53]
A
Yeah, that's a great clarification.
- [44:55]
B
That is all I was talking about.
- [44:56]
A
Definitely not satva counseling. Do not bring up news when you're satava counseling but it's just like I remember asking Michael because there are some times when people do campaigns where it's like, you sign a volunteer agreement that
- [45:06]
B
says you are not supposed to talk to me.
- [45:08]
A
Usually, like March for Life. They will be encouraging everyone. Even if there's proofs, people that want to talk to you. We don't. We just don't want to have that happening. For better or for worse. A lot of times those are rules that happen. So I want to say it's like, Michael, can they talk to personal people who probably might want to talk to them? Are they allowed? He's like, yes, that's fine.
- [45:27]
B
So we want some dialogue tips, too.
- [45:28]
A
So good clarification just for those people.
- [45:31]
B
This can be useful.
- [45:33]
A
Okay, this is Jay Watts. He's a pro life apologist friend of mine. He runs a ministry. It's called Merely Human Ministries, and I'm very curious about what he had to say.
- [45:44]
K
All right, My quick advice on 40 days for life, the first one, is that the only way to fail is to say nothing. So we can't be intimidated about having to talk to other people about the value of human life. This is too important an issue for us to stay silent on it. Our failure is our silence. Anything that we do is an improvement over silence. And so we don't have to sweat if we don't do our best or if we feel like we lost an argument or we feel like we didn't represent ourselves as well as we could have. We just want to learn, grow, and get better. The second thing I would like to say is, is to don't take things personally when they get upset. When we challenge people's emotions, when we challenge people's ideas, we're challenging them as far as how they identify themselves. And the issue here is so important that we have to be willing to welcome the irritation with us, even maybe their hatred for us. There are things that are worth being hated over, and defending the value of human life is worth being hated over. They may not like you. That's fine, because it's not really about you. They don't like your ideas. And more importantly, they don't like the idea that they may be wrong about something that's very important to them, something they may have identified themselves with strongly.
- [46:45]
B
I've said sometimes that it's important. If the pro choice person doesn't like you or isn't, like, convinced by your argument, then make it not be because they were distracted by the way that you were behaving. Make it their fault. Make them Be intellectually dishonest and reject
- [47:07]
A
a perfectly reasonable person giving a perfectly reasonable argument. And they're just like, no, I'm going
- [47:14]
B
to storm off or whatever.
- [47:15]
A
The walls go up. We see that happen all the time. It's like, yes, that's going to happen. That's very human. But a lot of her life people act like that's what happens every single time. They don't change someone's mind. And I have to tell you, a lot of the time it's more complicated. It might have more to do with you and what you're saying and how you are behaving than it does them. I have literally watched from the side, watch the pro life and a pro choice person have a conversation and watch the pro choice person storm off and the pro life person be like, well, nothing could have changed that person's mind. And I'm like, you were obnoxious this entire time, like you were close minded anyway. So I think it's a good reminder,
- [47:58]
B
like, yes, some people won't like you,
- [48:01]
A
but if they don't like you, make sure it's because they don't like your ideas that they were upset about what you're doing.
- [48:07]
B
They didn't get convinced and it's not for like a reasonable reason. Like you were like yelling at them back kind of a thing.
- [48:14]
D
Yeah, I think there might actually be three categories there. There's like you're being mean, you're being a jerk. It might actually be better for you not to be talking with pro choice people about abortion until you cannot do that. And then there's the like on the other end of the spectrum there's the like, you did everything right. Or at least you, you did very well and you made a reasonable argument and you were kind and you were approachable and you were relational and they are coming up against their own story or their own beliefs and that's kind of impacting how they're responding to you. And then there's a middle category where you are kind, you care about them, you care about thinking well and you mess up in dialogue. Like, I've done this, I do this all the time. I do this a lot and I still do this all the time. My speaking gig this last week was at University of Wisconsin, Platteville. They are awes, awesome. They're an awesome club, awesome affiliate group. They're amazing. But I had several people ask me after my speech, they said, when I trot out a toddler, oftentimes the pro choice person's walls just go way up and These are students who are really, really good at dialogue and are kind and friendly and relational, approachable. And I said, ah, I think I see what's happening. You just ask them, is it okay to murder a 2 year old? And they're like, no, what do you think of me? And so I was able to give them some like additional tips. On top of just being a kind, relational, friendly, truth oriented person to kind of specifically get that emotional wall down, I was able to say, ask at the beginning. Hey, can I ask you kind of a weird question not about abortion for a second and framing it that way and jumping in really quick once they say no, obviously it's not okay to kill a two year old with. Exactly. That's really obvious. We all agree on that. Making it really clear that I understand that you're not out here to murder 2 year olds. Like, there are tips that can make you more relational, more approachable, and more likely to help pro choice people get their emotional walls down on top of not being a jerk. And it's still better to be out there. Like those students, I think had better conversations after I gave them that tip. But I'm so glad that they were out there having conversations before I gave them that tip. I think even without that, they still left pro choice people better off than they met them. So if you're being a jerk, don't talk to pro choice people about abortion until you cannot be a jerk about it. That's fine. That's a reality that a lot of people find themselves in because they're really angry because it really matters. And that's some heart work and some head work that you can do. We can help you do if you are just doing it great. And the pro choice people is running into their own things and that's why they're responding to you the way that they are. Great. And there's still this middle category where you can improve, we can offer you tips and we're still really glad that you're out there.
- [50:42]
G
Yeah.
- [50:43]
F
Yeah.
- [50:44]
B
Well said.
- [50:45]
A
Okay, this one, Emily, help me out. This one. Is this from Salem, 40 days for life?
- [50:49]
C
Yes. Okay. So I don't know these people at all, which is really fun. So I reached out to our group that's in Lane County, Oregon. They have an amazing 40 days for life campaign. And there's a tip coming up from Blake from this, the campaign that's in Lane County. He reached out to his friends in Salem because he was. I was like, yeah, we're looking for as many tips as we can get. And so he reached out to his friends there and they sent in a tip. So I don't know these people at all, but this is awesome. This is Salem, Oregon.
- [51:18]
G
When you peacefully pray on the sidewalk during 40 days of life, hearts will be changed and lives will be saved. Former abortion workers report that as many as three out of four women who are scheduled for abortions won't go inside if there are people peacefully praying on the sidewalk outside. But there's more. The Lord works on other hearts as well. And sometimes former abortion workers report, when you think the least is happening, the most is happening. And I'll add, including in your own heart. So please participate in your 40 days for life.
- [52:09]
D
Yeah, that's so good. Because I think often it can be really demoralizing to be out there. It's a really painful thing to stand and bear witness to. And you often have a lot of impact and you often don't see it. So just reminding yourself this is happening, this is mattering to people. And I may never see lives that were saved as a result of what I'm doing here, but helps a lot with just like your it being sustainable for you to be out there reminding yourself that you have an impact even if you don't see it.
- [52:37]
B
I don't know if this was an original idea. I probably heard someone say this a long time ago and if it's been repeated ever since.
- [52:44]
A
But I wonder.
- [52:47]
B
We think a lot of times about how discouraging pro life work can be. And part of the reason why it can be discouraging is because a lot of times we are not getting to see the results of the work that we're doing. Especially when you're doing work like what we're doing. We're not on the sidewalk all the time. We're trying to train people to have better dialogues.
- [53:03]
A
I don't have a whole inbox full
- [53:04]
B
of baby pictures that have been sent to me.
- [53:07]
A
And I've said before, this is just like a theory.
- [53:10]
B
This isn't like rooted anything. But I wonder if maybe God hides some of that information, like shields some of that information from us so that we don't get this really big head that we don't get all focused on.
- [53:23]
A
Look at how many babies I saved. You saved. You've got like 2,000 Pokemon cards. I've got 3,000. I've got more like, you know, let's compare the stats. Like, I mean, just knowing how often pastors at pastor conferences, like, the first things they're asking each other is how
- [53:38]
B
many people go to Your church.
- [53:40]
A
And it's kind of gross and it kind of gets like automatically this kind of. That's like the measuring stick kind of a thing, which is not ideal.
- [53:46]
C
I also really love that she brought up the third group of people seeing you outside of the facility that we haven't really talked about. Like, we've talked about how you are impacting and the women going into the facility are seeing you. We talked about the passers by, but we haven't talked about the people that actually work in the abortion facility. And so being a witness to them as they are going in every single day over this 40 days campaign and seeing, repeatedly seeing crowds of people or seeing the fact that there is coverage literally every single hour that they go into the clinic, there are people outside that is incredibly impactful to them. And being aware of what resources there are to help people leave the abortion industry is a really helpful thing to just know. Not that you may have the opportunity to speak to anyone who works, but if someone were to approach you, just knowing that those resources do exist. There are lots of pro life people out there who want to help people leave the abortion industry. So that's a third group. Just to know that you're impacting.
- [54:42]
D
Yeah. And those people almost certainly have seen pro life people behave in some really horrific ways. So just offering abortion clinic workers the chance to see here are pro life people who care about you and are kind. And even if like you say something mean, we'll still be kind to you can have a really huge impact on them. Especially like they will see more of this 40 days for life campaign than anybody else. So seeing a bunch of pro life people just being kind is huge.
- [55:09]
C
Oh my gosh, that reminds me of a story that Jacob tells in the sidewalk counseling masterclass. It's just really short. But when you are out there showing incredible compassion and actually wanting to help people, you can make such an impact on the people that work in the clinic that it is possible that they may start actually referring women to you. And this happened once to Jacob where there was a woman who came and talked to him on the sidewalk after having gone into the clinic. Like she went into the clinic, hadn't talked to Jacob, comes back out a few minutes later and goes straight to Jacob and he's like, hello. And he starts a conversation with her and she says to him, I went into the clinic because I was looking for resources to go through my pregnancy and I want to have a baby. And I thought they would help me with that. But they told me literally the lady at the front desk, the receptionist said, sorry, we don't offer any prenatal care or things like that here, but if you go talk to him. And she pointed out the window to Jacob, he will help you. And I'm like, that is a person who works in an abortion clinic who just referred this woman to go talk to the sidewalk counselor. And so if you are out there showing the receptionists and the nurses and whoever it is that works at this facility that you are loving and here to help women, it is very possible that they will believe you and they will actually send women out to talk to you who they think could be helped by your services.
- [56:39]
B
I have met pro life people sometimes who were struggling to get to the place where they could feel compassion for the abortion practitioner themselves or the people that are even just working in there. And a thing that I've found myself telling them to try to help with that is to remind them that these people work behind bulletproof glass. They often work. They often, every day open a door and maybe a couple of sets of doors, because the outer one probably is bulletproof glass. There's a reason for that. There are reasons for that.
- [57:13]
A
Not that that happens all the time. That that should be, like, representative of the pro life movement.
- [57:16]
B
It's not.
- [57:17]
A
Almost never happens, but it has happened. And I mean, Rebecca, you understand trauma
- [57:23]
B
way better than I do.
- [57:24]
A
I can't imagine just what it would
- [57:26]
B
do to my body every time I'm
- [57:28]
A
having to go through. When you're going through that kind of a security thing, especially if there are pro lifers outside that you think maybe might agree with someone who might try
- [57:37]
B
to do something crazy. We should so have compassion on them just for that, among many other things.
- [57:46]
A
Next is Tyson. I think his last name is pronounced Langhofer. Langhofer.
- [57:51]
B
I'm not getting it.
- [57:52]
A
Right. Whatever. I'm sorry. Tyson. Everyone just knows him by Tyson. I think everyone knows Tyson. If you've been at a Student for life conference in the last, like, seven years, you've probably seen Tyson. Tyson works at ADF Alliance Defending Freedom. He is also our contact. Like, if we're ever having issues with
- [58:06]
B
a campus, like legally speaking, or we need to kind of help one of our affiliate groups.
- [58:11]
A
Tyson is our first point of contact. He's kind of the campus free speech pro life expert guy at adf.
- [58:19]
B
He's awesome. He's also been on our advisory board for a long time. So let's see what Tyson had to say. Hey, my number one tip for doing an effective 40 days for life campaign is to be joyful, to be bold, and to be confident. I know abortion is a controversial topic,
- [58:40]
A
but we have a better vision.
- [58:42]
B
We are advocating for the most defenseless in our society. We are advocating to protect innocent life. So when you're out there advocating on behalf of those, be bold, be joyful, and be confident.
- [58:58]
D
Yeah, this always feels like a really tricky balance to me because in dialogues always want to be really open to being shown that I'm wrong and I want to communicate that clearly. And there's a part of me that like gets into like self doubt and like criticizing all of the ways that I show up and engage. And it's really tricky for me to hold both. And yet I think really important to hold both. Like, I so want to be open to receiving anything that this pro choice person has to say. I want to be open to considering their arguments because I'm asking them to be open to considering my arguments. I want to be open to learning that I'm could be doing something better either in my arguments or in how I'm engaging with people. And I think the fact that I'm there is a really good thing and it's kind and loving for me to be there and it is helpful to people. And that's true on the sidewalk as well. Like you are doing a good thing and it is good to consider how can I do it better? And it is good just to be there and be kind and you get to like, you get to own that. Like you're doing a really hard thing by being on the sidewalk that is worthy of honor. So give yourself.
- [60:03]
A
That thought that I had is that
- [60:05]
B
people are so complicated. There are so many different kinds of personalities in the pro life movement. So I thought not everyone's into this. I thought about the enneagram and just
- [60:14]
A
how different people have very different kinds of things. And there are some people like me. If any Enneagram nines are in here, I understand you. If there are nines, you probably really
- [60:26]
B
need what Tyson just said. You probably need some more confidence, some more boldness, because more likely than not, if you're erring on one side, you are erring on the side of like not being confident enough and being very maybe kind of timid and don't want to offend people and all of that.
- [60:43]
A
If you're an enneagram8 or someone that is like just more in touch with boldness naturally and maybe anger and like, you know, these are not terrible people, These are great leaders and things like that. But like boldness Might not be the thing to be. Like, okay, if I can highlight one part of me, I'm going to be extra bold today. You might need some other things. So I would just add a self awareness step before this. So figuring out where are you off balance? Do you feel no confidence at all? You probably need some boldness. Do you feel super like a warrior? Every time you go to Planned Parenthood, you probably need some less. You probably need something different than that. So trying to figure out what is it that would help you. And ask the people around you. Ask the 40 Days for Life leader. Ask the people that you go with. If I could make one adjustment, what would that be? I remember I go back a lot of times to this conversation I had with Steve Wagner. He had this really great example. There's like just what I needed because it was about this. Basically I was not being bold enough at outreach or something along those lines. And his thing was like.
- [61:48]
B
Cause I think he also didn't want me to overcompensate. Although I don't know if that would have been physically possible.
- [61:52]
A
But if he was like, think about landing a plane. Like, I had already been playing like
- [61:57]
B
flight simulators and stuff.
- [61:58]
A
And like, the thing is like, if you're getting ready to landing, you're a little bit off. Not way off, but you're just a little bit off center. The thing to do is not to like jerk the joystick way over. You're going to have to like end up going around. It's going to be a whole thing. You just make these tiny little adjustments, see what happens.
- [62:17]
B
And then if you need to adjust
- [62:18]
A
it again, make a little another and just kind of like just get centered. So his thing was like, be 10%
- [62:23]
B
more bold than feels correct to you
- [62:27]
A
or natural to you, because probably that's
- [62:30]
B
gonna be closer to true north than what my natural instincts are.
- [62:34]
A
Okay, we have an anonymous tip.
- [62:36]
B
This is the one that you made Emily, right?
- [62:38]
C
Yes. Okay, so let me give a little bit of background on this.
- [62:40]
H
Yeah.
- [62:41]
C
So this anonymous tip comes to us from the same anonymous sidewalk counselor who wrote and encouraged incredible article that we have on our blog. We'll put it in the link in the description. She is a regular sidewalk counselor and she has a lot of experience working in particularly hostile abortion clinic environments. So she goes to Planned Parenthoods and other abortion clinics that often have clinic escorts and deal with police and deal with a more hostile kind of abortion clinic. And that's really her specialty. And she does amazing work there. And so she wrote this awesome Article for us telling the incredible story of how she really changed the heart of a clinic escort at one of these clinics that she was at. Not convincing this person to become pro life, not so far, but really showing this clinic escort that she and the other pro lifers in the sidewalk were truly there to help women. To the point where this clinic escort stopped trying to prevent the pro lifers from engaging with the women.
- [63:44]
H
Wow.
- [63:45]
C
She would make it easy for them to do. She stopped all the other clinic escorts that work there from trying to destroy the pamphlets and destroy the sidewalk chalk that they were writing. This clinic escort actually defended the sidewalk counselor to the security guard and said, no, no, no, you leave them alone. They're doing just like, they're not disrupting us at all. Like what they're doing is good. She did incredible work at this clinic. And so she, she wrote this article. We republished it on our blog, so we're going to link to all that in the description. So that is the same person as this anonymous tip. So she sent it in to me and I just made a little video of me reading her tip.
- [64:24]
B
Nice.
- [64:25]
I
Hey, it's Emily. I'm just going to read a tip that we got from an anonymous sidewalk counselor. So she said, if you're at an abortion facility that has clinic escort, my first piece of advice is don't deliberately antagonize them or treat them with open hostility. While not all clinic escorts are nice to pro lifers, don't behave in a way that raises the temperature outside of the abortion facility. Don't show up at the sidewalk and try to start arguments with them. And don't call them names like death squirts. Not only is it wrong to antagonize people, but if you have a reputation for creating a tense atmosphere, then the clinic escorts will usually respond by making sure you and everyone else on the sidewalk have limited contact with the women entering the facility. The presence of clinic escorts should also make you think twice about how you're coming across to the women walking up to the abortion facility. If an abortion minded woman were to choose who she's going to turn to for help, who is behaving more like someone she can trust? Is it you or is it the clinic escort? Does your voice sound loud or harsh? Do you seem frantic or anxious because you want to hurry up and get through your spiel before giving her information on free pregnancy resources? Also, what are you saying to the women to try to get her attention? When I talk with women as the clinic escorts walk them inside, I usually smile and introduce myself. Then I say, how are you? If you need anything, Optionline.org can connect you with a ton of free resources. I'm here if you want to talk more. Just be friendly and approachable. Don't be someone that makes a woman turn to the clinic escorts for protection. And don't dehumanize the clinic escorts. Instead, make it so they can't deny that there are pro lifers who genuinely care about women and families and that many of us are kind people who really want to offer support.
- [66:04]
B
That's so good.
- [66:06]
A
Don't call them death scores.
- [66:08]
B
Please don't.
- [66:09]
A
This is a common pro life thing.
- [66:11]
B
This is one of those labels I hate. It just goes around and people catch onto it and love it and makes them, I think maybe feel kind of
- [66:17]
A
good and self righteous or whatever.
- [66:19]
B
It is not helpful. Don't call them death escorts.
- [66:21]
C
Yeah, my favorite part of that tip is think about why the clinic escorts are there. Like, they're there because the clinic thinks that the women going in need protection. And the clinic escorts are there to provide that. To literally put their bodies between the pro lifers and the women going in to make sure that they are protected physically, they are protected emotionally. As much as possible, they are insulated from whatever the pro lifers are doing. Like, that's the point of a clinic escort. And so if you on the sidewalk see that you're at a clinic with clinic escorts, make sure that you are making it so that their job is unnecessary. Like, you want the women to be like, why is there a clinic escort? Like, they're not in any way harmful to me or going to hurt me or like, whatever. Like, you don't want to make a woman turn to the clinic escort for protection. You want to make the woman be like, why is the clinic escort here? Because these people are clearly safe. And people I can go talk to
- [67:22]
A
make the escort feel like they're wasting their time. Like, I could be volunteering somewhere more
- [67:26]
B
effectively giving food to someone or something like that. Like, yeah, like, make them feel like this isn't.
- [67:32]
A
Like, maybe there are some places where things get kind of chaotic and we need these things, but here it just seems really peaceful. These people are nice.
- [67:39]
B
Like that kind of thing.
- [67:40]
D
Yeah, I love that. There's also a really nuanced advanced tip in there of like, slow down your words. It is less important to get all the words out and get your spiel done and get all the information than it is to be a kind, calm presence. And if that means you don't get through the whole spiel. That's fine. Your most important contribution is the technical term is like your affect, but your warmth and kindness and the way that you come across to them, not your words and information, because that's going to make them more likely to come talk to you in the future and because it's going to slow down their body's stress responses and help them to be able to make decisions that are more in accord with their values.
- [68:21]
B
I don't know if people realize how much our bodies are just automatically scanning for threats, scanning for, like, micro expressions. Especially if we're talking to someone that we have never talked to before, we don't trust. It seems a little bit weird, like
- [68:37]
A
we are looking for any kind of threat.
- [68:40]
B
And there are ways that you can
- [68:42]
A
come across a little bit less peaceful or something like that. It's just a lot depends on the way.
- [68:52]
B
Exactly what Rebecca was saying, like, how do you seem?
- [68:56]
A
Do you seem like you want to have a conversation? Do you seem like you care about them? Do you seem like you give a crap what they're going through?
- [69:02]
B
Or do you seem like a crusader who is really angry about this thing going on and you're going to hear and you're going to hold a sign. Is that how you look?
- [69:10]
A
Those are two really different looks. Optically the same.
- [69:13]
D
Yeah. And there are some specific tips about how to look that way. Crossing your arms can often come across to people as guarded and defensive. But really the most important route you have to coming across as kind and you're interested in conversation and you care about people is to be kind and interested in conversation and to care about people. Because what shows up in our bodies is actually what's going on in our hearts and our bodies as humans read each other really, really well. So don't overthink it. Specific tips are great. Don't overthink it. In terms of specific tips, your most important job is in your own heart and in your own head.
- [69:47]
A
All right, we've got two more. This is Alan Sleeman. This is a friend of mine. He's more of a Christian apologist than a pro life apologist, but he does some pro Life apologetics, too. He's at Stand to Reason, old buddy of mine.
- [69:58]
B
It's nice to see his face again. Watching his videos, it's great.
- [70:02]
L
My name is Alan Schliemann with Stand to Reason. And let me offer you a quick tip. Seek to understand before you try to respond.
- [70:11]
B
Yep.
- [70:11]
L
I like what Francis Schaeffer says about this. He says if I have only an hour with someone, I'll spend the first 55 minutes asking them questions and finding out what is troubling their heart and their mind. And then in the last five minutes, I'll share something of the truth. I think if you do that, you'll find three advantages. Number one, you'll honor and respect the other person because it'll show that you care about them. Second of all, it'll help to prevent you from mischaracterizing their view. You won't create a straw man and respond to a position that they don't hold because you'll understand their view. And number three, by understanding their position and understanding their rationale, it'll help you to know what to say. Because even though you may have spent the majority of time asking them questions to try to understand their view, you'll now know exactly what to say. And even though what you share might be a shorter amount of time than they've spent speaking, that thing that you end up sharing, that last five minutes of what you end up sharing will be precisely what they needed to hear. And you'll know what they needed to hear because you first take the time to invest in them. So I hope that tip helps you to engage people, especially those people that you disagree with.
- [71:22]
B
It's really good.
- [71:23]
D
Yeah, that's so good. It's good in conversations, just general apologetics conversations, either with a pro choice person on the sidewalk or with a pro choice person on a college campus or a friend. It is even, even more important with somebody walking into the clinic again, because she's in the middle of trauma, which is just a word for our body's physical responses to extreme stress, particularly stressed without an empathetic witness. So I want you to think about, like, going to meet her where she is and sitting and holding what life is like for her right now. Before you invite her to see it differently or before you invite her to do something different, just go meet her where she is and be a caring, kind presence in what she's going through and how she's seeing things right now and start there.
- [72:08]
B
Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. I feel like we talk about listening well so often that it just like it starts feeling like, okay, like, obviously.
- [72:16]
A
So I want to pick out, like, the thing that Alan said that felt
- [72:19]
B
like kind of new and something kind
- [72:21]
A
of like a helpful reminder maybe for
- [72:24]
B
some of the people that have heard maybe me talk about listening, because I don't. Because I haven't. I don't make this point, but I
- [72:28]
A
really like he sort of Made like
- [72:29]
B
a quality over quantity point.
- [72:31]
A
He's like, in the end, if you do a bunch of listening. Yes. You might end up saying way fewer words. And I think that matters to a lot of people. I think a lot of people. People really feel like I've got to make sure I've got at least half the airtime here and I'm getting or else I'm not going to be able to be as persuasive. No, no, no, no, no. You might be way more persuasive if
- [72:50]
B
you've got like 15% of the speaking time.
- [72:53]
A
That actually might be. Because that 15% will be so much better. Partially because they did more speaking and
- [73:00]
B
you did more listening.
- [73:01]
A
That quality over quantity kind of pragmatic element there is.
- [73:08]
B
That's a great reminder for me.
- [73:09]
A
All right, we are to our last video. This is our other 40 days for life one. This is Blake Moser. Oh, oh, this is Emily set this up.
- [73:18]
C
Yes. So earlier we had that lovely one from Salem's 40 Days for Life campaign. Salem, Oregon, that I didn't know the people. So this is Blake, who I do know, who also sent us to his friends in Salem. So Blake runs Lane County Right to Life, which is one of our awesome affiliate groups. They're an Oregon Right to Life affiliate as well. So they're out in Lane County, Oregon, which is in the Eugene, Oregon area. And Blake and his group are incredible. They run a really effective 40 days for life campaign every year. So I'm really excited he sent one in.
- [73:46]
B
I think Blake gets points for the best location for us.
- [73:49]
C
Yes. For those of you that are listening, he is standing outside of a Planned Parenthood.
- [73:54]
B
He did a very good job with his framing here.
- [73:56]
A
Good job.
- [73:56]
M
Blake victories in the showing up. I'm Blake Moser, the chair of Lane county right to Life here in Eugene, Oregon, and standing here in front of Planned Parenthood on the busy Franklin Boulevard here in Lane county. Back in June, there were 76 abortions according to the Oregon Public Health Directorate. That's awful. That totally breaks my heart. Makes me just crushes me. But just show up. There's victory in showing up. Planned Parenthood former workers and current workers. That said, the more of us are standing out here, the more cancellations they have, the more no shows they have, the less abortions they have. Oh, praise God. All we gotta do is come out here and stand. I mean, preferably we do the training beforehand. Like 40 Days for Life has a class. ERI does sidewalk advocates. You know, that's good stuff. Probably should do the training. Don't have to though.
- [74:59]
A
It would help though.
- [75:00]
M
But just show up. The devil will tell you not to come. Plant fear in your heart. But just show up and you're helping just by showing up. Just stand out here in front of Planned Parenthood and saving lives.
- [75:15]
A
Anyway, that is great. He seems like such a good leader.
- [75:19]
C
He is.
- [75:20]
B
Inspirational person.
- [75:22]
C
Yes. He is such an inspirational person. It's an honor to get to work with him and his group. They're fantastic. But as a 40 days for life leader. Yes.
- [75:31]
A
I think the main thing that stood
- [75:33]
B
out to me was you could really tell how much he feels this.
- [75:37]
A
And I find that. I think that is a thing that
- [75:40]
B
naturally happens a lot of times with people who do psycho counseling or do 40 days for life.
- [75:44]
A
And I'm sure there's that can go
- [75:45]
B
the other way direction. If you are more likely to be feeling like that, you might be more likely to go and do that kind of pro life work. But I have found a lot of times there is just something especially about going, being outside of an abortion clinic for your first time and watching women walk in pregnant and watch them walk out. Not that just breaks your heart in a way that you are not expecting.
- [76:08]
A
I kind of think like every pro
- [76:10]
B
lifer ought to have that experience at least once, assuming they're not post abortive and it wouldn't be triggering and things like that.
- [76:19]
A
The thing that really stuck out to
- [76:21]
B
me that I really liked was he keyed in on the local statistics. It was like 70 something.
- [76:30]
A
He knew exactly how many abortions had
- [76:32]
B
happened at that clinic in a certain year. And that I think is really, really powerful. It reminds me of that quote. I don't know if this is the Stalin quote or not.
- [76:43]
A
It's attributed to Stalin a lot.
- [76:45]
B
But it's that quote. If only one man dies of hunger, that's a tragedy. If millions die, that's only statistics.
- [76:52]
A
There's something about like big, especially the big abortion statistics that are just like overwhelming.
- [76:57]
B
You just kind of lose track of like what that means being able to
- [77:00]
A
say like here at this place, at
- [77:03]
B
this actual location, where we are standing in front of this is how many actual little humans were killed here last year legally. And that is why we are here. We are here for them. We're here for their moms. We're here to be kind of one last witness and attempt to kind of help turn things a different direction.
- [77:25]
A
But I know you can't always do this. There's some states like California, you don't get abortion Status if you sat a few states, every state different in how they compile their statistics. But if there are statistics like that
- [77:38]
B
that you can offer for the people that you're trying to encourage to be part of this, like the Kickoff rally, this is something that should be spoken about when you're trying to recruit people to come and do this. I think those localized statistics can be really, really helpful.
- [77:53]
D
I also just love that we started and ended as it turned out, with someone saying, just do it. Just show up. So as you're listening to this podcast, if you've never been on the slide book before, or if you have, I think don't try to implement all of this podcast at once. Don't try to, like, list all of the tips and do all of the tips the next time that you're out on the sidewalk. Pick one. Pick one thing. And if that thing is, I've never shown up before, I'm going to show up. That's great. If you show up and your body is tense the whole time, but you're there and you care and you're holding a kind sign, do that. And then maybe the next time you show up, pick another tip. Pick. Just breathe.
- [78:27]
C
Pick.
- [78:29]
D
Just offer some care to your own body and notice how that implements in how you show up for these women and how you come across. And then maybe pick one more thing, but don't try to implement it all at once. Don't try to be perfect. Pick one thing you can improve. And if you've never shown up before, that one thing is just show up.
- [78:46]
A
It's pretty interesting that all the 40 days for life leaders, I think, were
- [78:50]
B
basically mainly saying, please come, please show
- [78:52]
A
up, please, we need you. That makes sense. Again, I was a terrible 40 days for real Life leader. I'm not supposed to be running it convinced me we needed to hire a different person. I told our boss, like, I am not cut out for this. I am good at some things and I'm really not good at other things. This is why I spent six hours in a row on day two, because I couldn't find anyone else to help. It was just like, I'm not that guy. We hired an awesome other guy for
- [79:18]
B
that and I never did that again. It was great.
- [79:20]
A
It is hard to convince people, and especially if you're one of those people that's like, you're going to be working extra shifts if you can't get people to join you, you really want to get people there. It's notable that the people who spent years actually doing this Standing in front of the sidewalk and probably could give 100 tips if they sat down and tried to come up with a list.
- [79:45]
B
The main one coming from the 40 days leaders is showing up. That's very. I think that's worth underlining.
- [79:53]
C
And you can do that. That is one of the beautiful Things about a 40 Days for Life campaign is they're trying to create coverage for all the hours the facility is open. And so I guarantee you, you can find an hour somewhere in your life schedule that you could participate in this 40. It's not like, oh, it only happens at this one specific time. And that conflicts with my what? Like, you can do that. Everyone can find a slot and stand outside. All you have to do is show up. That is a beautiful, really easy, small thing that you can do that we actually know is impacting. It is actually saving lives just by showing up.
- [80:35]
B
Awesome.
- [80:36]
A
Okay, we're gonna have a bunch of links in the show, Notes, tours, different things that people were recommending. Thank you. Especially to the people who sat down and made videos to participate in this thing. I know there were some people that really, really wanted to but couldn't because of life or busyness or whatever. But I'm so grateful for those of you who did and really glad to have every single one of your voices
- [81:00]
B
as part of this.
- [81:01]
A
This is one of those the whole
- [81:03]
B
is greater than the sum of its parts kind of thing.
- [81:06]
A
Like, the three of us could have done this. Like, my original version of this was, the three of us were gonna come
- [81:11]
B
up with several tips and do a bunch of tips. And I'm glad that we did it this way, too, because we would not
- [81:17]
A
have come up with some of the
- [81:19]
B
things that were brought in and certainly wouldn't have said it that way.
- [81:22]
A
If there is something else like this that you would like us to try to do something like this, I love this. I love collaborating. So if there's another topic or something, if you have an idea that you'd like us to try to get a bunch of little videos and things like this so we can react to live, then I think that's a cool idea. I'd be happy to do that again. So let us know in the comments. Thank you so much for listening. For the rest of you, if you don't know where your local 40 Days for Life campaign is, go to 40daysforlife.com
- [81:48]
B
and there is all kinds of information there that can point you to your local resources. There's going to be training information there. That is a really helpful way to get involved. If you haven't gotten involved before, you
- [81:59]
A
want to be in touch with your local campaign.
- [82:01]
B
They are going to be so happy to hear from you, I promise. Thanks a lot for listening.