← Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Blindness to Billion-Dollar Vision: How Sean Callagy Is Building the Future of AI
01:03:21
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- [00:01]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [01:21]
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- [01:24]
John Gafford
Can I make my site firmer?
- [01:26]
Sean Callagy
Can we sleep cooler?
- [01:28]
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- [01:40]
Sean Callagy
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- [01:43]
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- [01:47]
Sean Callagy
Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com.
- [01:55]
John Gafford
And now Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, Escape the Drift and it's time to start right now. Back again. Back again for another episode of the show. Like it says in the opening, man gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today in the studio I have what somebody literally just introduced this guy to me as he is going to be the first blind billion dollar unicorn founder. He is an incredible human. He has had more success in his life than just about anybody on paper you would ever see. He was a visionary and Founded a very large, large law firm that he had a seven figure exit on there that he built to one of the best firms in America. He is now a founder of a massive AI company, has another company that he's founded that's going to do a billion dollars in revenue recovering money that surgeons left on the table with companies. He's, he is one of Tony Robbins favorite people to have guest speak on his stage. And we are blessed to have him in the studio today. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Sean Callagy.
- [03:12]
Sean Callagy
Sean, John, thanks so much for being here. I don't know who that guy is. I just, I'm some blind guy born defective who failed freshman high school geometry for the year. And I'm just trying to make my way in this world. But thank you.
- [03:23]
John Gafford
Trying to make your way. So obviously, let's talk about that. So you were, you lost your sight later in life?
- [03:30]
Sean Callagy
I did. So five years old, my mom finds out I'm gonna go blind, is fearful that I'm, you know, how am I gonna support myself or let alone a family ever. Like her father, one of. I become the 12th person in my family to be on the track of going blind. There's been more since then. Genetic, hereditary eye condition. We're in Vegas. Same condition that Steve Wynn has, retinitis pigmentosa. It affects people incredibly differently. Some people are blind and can't even function by the time they're 15. Some people are still in their 60s having, you know, meaningful functionality. So. But I find that at 17, I'm a Division 1 recruit in football and baseball. I go on to play college baseball. I am petrified about my future after I start to have the first challenges really with my sight during college. Baseball had a beautiful career, but enough to not get drafted. And so I have to figure it out from there. But yeah.
- [04:18]
John Gafford
So you started losing Your sight around 17?
- [04:20]
Sean Callagy
Yes.
- [04:21]
John Gafford
So when you, when you decided to go to law school, you were already like your, your site was already failing when you started going to law school?
- [04:27]
Sean Callagy
Yeah, I was compromised. So when I took the bar exam, so reading was exhausting. I took the bar exam. It was, it was brutal because the power went out. And this is in the days before he took it. Automated and I really almost couldn't see the words and the questions. It was the most stressful day of my life academically ever. By far. Not close. I was like totally ready for the bar exam, but I couldn't really see. So I stopped fully reading at age 40, stopped driving around the same time I Should definitely have stopped driving in my late 20s. That was not responsible. I thank God I didn't kill somebody. But it was a progressive, you know, degenerative thing. By 40, I was really, really, you know, unsighted. I had, you know, a lot of interesting things happened from there. But this was this journey. Let's go from 17 to 40 of. If you had a piece of paper and you're punching a hole out one hole at a time, eventually it's not paper anymore. And that's my vision.
- [05:24]
John Gafford
So now are you at a place where you can see anything at all now, or no?
- [05:28]
Sean Callagy
No. You might say, like, dude, you look like you're looking at me. Right? And people say you don't look blind all the time, but I can vaguely tell by looking straight ahead. I'm looking straight ahead peripherally, I could see something that's contrasting off of some background over there, which I'm presuming is your face. So then I go like this, and it makes it look like I'm looking at you. I can't see anything. So zero central vision. I have some degree, you know, small degree of peripheral vision. I'm really masterful and maximizing the teeny, tiny bit of peripheral I have. So people all the time go, you don't look blind. Like, it's the most common thing that people say to me, and people even thought it's an exaggeration. I am blind. I cannot see, I cannot read. I have scars on my head from walking into poles. So I assure everybody out there that I am blind with the exception of having just a little bit of peripheral vision. But I use a lot of context clues, and we can learn how to do anything. And I've learned how to function really well with the teeny, tiny bit of peripheral side I have.
- [06:29]
John Gafford
Yeah, it's amazing the level that people can adapt to things. And not to. Not to make this sound weird, but I have something at my house that I'm very proud of that is the most amazing thing in my life to me. So I'm very allergic to cats, right? But I love my daughter, and my daughter has talked me into buying three Persian cats. So, yes, I'm allergic to cats. And we have three Persian cats, the hairiest cats you can possibly get. And the last one we got, my daughter saw this cat on Instagram. It was a kitten that some breeder had, and it was really cute. My daughter, she's a great salesman, put up a PowerPoint about why we needed this cat.
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Sean Callagy
How old is she?
- [07:12]
John Gafford
She's now 16. But yeah, so put up this PowerPoint. She's been doing this since she was like 7 years old. She was the way to my heart is through a PowerPoint or Google Slide presentation. Anyway, so she talked me into buying this third cat, this little kitten. And we got him, brought him home and he was running around and he was, I mean, chasing toys, the whole thing. And his eyes didn't look quite right. And we're like, oh, I think he just, I think he can't see very well. And we have a big house, like 77 square. And this little cat gets around my house like nobody's business. And it turns out my wife took him to the vet. He's completely blind. Like his eyes don't work at all. And you would have no idea. And I just watching him navigate our house knowing where everything is and no not is amazing to me. And so I don't know how that correlates into what we're talking about now, but I was literally looking at this morning thinking about how amazing it was.
- [08:03]
Sean Callagy
What's the cat's name?
- [08:04]
John Gafford
His name is Hermes.
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Sean Callagy
Hermes. So you could my new Delta Tau Chi name. In the world of John, you may refer to me please as Hermes.
- [08:11]
John Gafford
It's Hermes. That's the one. Okay, cool. There you go. Yeah, but it's just. Let me ask you this. When you were, when you found out you were going blind, like when you did this, when you found out this would be a problem, was there. Did, did you go into self pity for a while? Was talk about that because obviously you were an athlete. I mean you're D1.
- [08:27]
Sean Callagy
Yeah.
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John Gafford
You know, athlete.
- [08:29]
Sean Callagy
I was. So I didn't, you know, I. One of the things I teach is integrity based human influence, the loving pursuit of the relevant truth. So I pride myself on like hyper accuracy and reality. There's definitely like mythology and heroic journey for all of us. Right. But that's not part of my heroic journey. You know, when I found out at 17 I was blessed by God, I guess I, you know, had my grandfather to look at and somehow when I would lose my sight, felt far enough away at 17 that it, it wasn't something that I thought a lot about. And I just kept doing what I was doing, you know, like, hey, someday you're gonna go blind. Was something like, okay, it's not someday today and let's go. And I'd love to say there was some, you know, brilliant trajectory of like self discovery, but it's kind of like, okay. I was fighting with my mom to get my driver's license because she didn't want me get my license. And they did this trick where my stepfather like had me drive down the road and like jumped out like to see if I could see him or not. And I saw him. I'm like, I. I'm getting my license. Like, it's all I cared about. So it was interesting. It was right at my 17th birthday, right as I was going to get my driver's license. So I think that was like so much more present for me, like get license that I wasn't thinking about it. And then, you know, you're 17 and all the things that brings. And you know, I was working my way up the trajectory of, of understanding mastery and overcoming your genetics in other ways athletically to, you know, reach the levels of recruitment. I did, you know, that that journey was a formative part of my whole existence, was my athletic journey. But it really never sat there for me. June 1st, 2nd, 3rd, few years later, five years later actually, of 1992, I sat there and I knew because there was a scout, Eddie Ford, God bless him, he has a massive impact on my life. From the Chicago White Sox, who said that he was gonna draft me for sure. Like, this is going into Columbia. And still after my junior year, I had incredible junior in college baseball. I was top 10 hitters, division one in the country for about 80% of the season. Tailed off a little bit at the end, still hit.400 my junior year in college. And I was like, all right, I'm gonna get drafted, right? And June. And then I started having some challenges more so my senior year. And he's like, listen, this is not gonna happen. And I still believe somehow there'd be a miracle on June. 1, 2, 3, 92. I sit by the phone knowing it wasn't going to rings, no cell phones, none of that. Knew it wasn't going to ring. Sat there for three days just hoping somebody take me in, like the 38th round or something. Didn't happen. And I cried that day. It was the first time I ever cried about my blindness. And the last, believe it or not, of my whole life. And that was the worst day. And then I had to figure it out from there.
- [11:13]
John Gafford
Because of that. I mean, because you never had that moment of like self pity or wallowing in it or worrying about it. What is your empathy level for people that whine about their problems?
- [11:25]
Sean Callagy
Dude? Incredibly high, you know? Yeah, so I, I'm, you know, one of the things that I'm a big massive proponent, consultant, trainer, coach of is what I call Earth communication, empathetic, respectful, precise and direct. And I played for some of the the most incredible leaders ever. I'm going to talk to Tom Brady later today about it that we have commonality of. You know, he was, he's in the coaching lineage of Bill Parcells and Bill Parcells shares and mentor in common with me, this gentleman, Larry Ennis. So I grew up in northern New Jersey. Vince Lombardi is in the upline and coaching of my coach Ennis. And it was incredibly intense. But what I think a lot of people don't understand about Vince Lombardi and this type of coaching because Lombardi coached from in New Jersey. I'm from New Jersey, born and raised, is these are people who did have a lot of empathy, a lot of humor, fun. They would make you laugh, they would make your heart soar. They would have you see the mountaintop of Martin Luther King and I have a dream and they would kick your effing a from one side of the field to the other and do all of that in 60 seconds. So my life parallels that a lot. Like I have unbelievable empathy for human beings. I'm a person of faith. You know, it's not a part of my core platform, but I certainly don't hide from it. I say it. You know, I'm a Christian, perfectly imperfect, of course, but I have wild empathy. But for the grace of God go I. I've been so blessed in so many different ways and miracles of timing and all these different things I was ready for but happened. So I look a lot of folks and say that why I have such empathy, John, is because these people didn't have the blessing of the riches I grew up with. And I didn't grow up with any riches of money. I grew up with two things. Massive amounts of love and massive amounts of incredible, incredible. What I call actualizing, you might refer to it as mentoring, but you know, to me, good transcends that. And so when I see people and feel people, I have great empathy. And my, my empathy remains but decreases tremendously once people come into like our world and they, they become unblinded, they get truth and then they continue down certain paths. You know, I think sometimes conditioning is really hard to shift, but I'm like really present to it. So, yes, I have massive empathy for people. We are prone to focus on our pain, you know, not possibility. So I do, I do. But I guess I treat myself.
- [13:52]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [14:12]
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- [15:06]
Sean Callagy
I do others.
- [15:08]
John Gafford
You mentioned. Now I know that when we were just introduced earlier, our friend Cole Hatter, a mutual friend of ours, introduced us and said that one of the things he loved most about you was you're a super dad. It's one of the things he mentioned about you.
- [15:20]
Sean Callagy
Thank you.
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John Gafford
So my first question is about that because it's a genetic issue you have that costs your site. Was there any apprehension about the kids?
- [15:28]
Sean Callagy
Oh brother, thank you for that question. So no for me and my grandfather's brother, my uncle Frankie got to rest his soul. His widow, my aunt Mary is still alive. She's 90. My grandfather's past, he was one of the greatest leaders you could ever possibly see. I'm obviously not here without him and so never a question for me. And it was one thing that was a friction point between my grandfather and his brother who he loved. I mean they had incredible relationship was the fact that he opted not to have children because of this. And so and my grandfather would talk to me about it and say like if I chose that you're not here. Yeah, like how crazy would that be? So I go to the I go to, you know, I'm divorced but still have a great relationship. My first wife, my kids are I'm so thankful, doing great. 26, 24, 22. My son's here with us in Las Vegas working with us now and she graduated from law school, is doing awesome. And before um, when his mom was pregnant with him, my first child on the way to say hey, like let's have a conversation. You know, going to Get a little bit of genetic counselors going to come in and talk to you today. I'm like, what? Like a genetic counselor? I'm like, for what? They're like, well, you know, just to see, you know, you know, your eye condition. I'm like, wait a minute. So is what I'm hearing that you want me to get counseling to decide whether or not to abort my child?
- [16:51]
John Gafford
Oh, geez.
- [16:52]
Sean Callagy
They're like, well, it's not like that. I'm like, listen, it. I'm. I'm not attacking you. I'm like, yeah, but that's what you're saying, right? I mean, there's, there's nothing. That's what the conversation is. They're like, well, no, I'm like, yes, it is. Tell me, tell me what else it is. They're like, I guess, sort of okay, like, no, thanks. I remember. And that actually a little more than things I said, listen, I know you got a job to do. I said, but could you even begin to imagine how unbelievable, painful and offensive that is in the conversation? You could probably position a little better. Right? I get your job and your mission and your work. But my answer is emphatically no. All I have three daughters, one son. My son cannot have this disease, nor can he carry it. It's how it works. It goes from, you know, father to daughter, you know, to sun trajectory.
- [17:43]
John Gafford
Really?
- [17:43]
Sean Callagy
Yeah, yeah. It's pretty interesting how the chromosomes do.
- [17:46]
John Gafford
The father to daughter. So it's. It. Yeah, it's really odd.
- [17:50]
Sean Callagy
So all three of my daughters can be carriers. I can't give it to them. They could develop some symptoms, but their sons can absolutely have this disease. So that's the, the dynamic. And you know, I believe that life is life and some people deal with, you know, every type of bias, gender, race, religion, whatever. People have physical challenges, you know, but there's no way, shape or form that I would believe was that. I believe in the freedom of choice. I am a Christian. I believe that my beliefs don't apply to the government. It's a way complicated issue that I haven't thought deeply enough to believe about all of the issues. Right. I just, it's not me like kicking, punting, like I, I think, you know, you have issues of rape and things, all the complicated things. Right. So what I believe in every part of it. I'm not sure like when, like, you know, month, nine versus month. All those things people waste more than me fight and argue about. So I don't think I'm gonna have a better idea on It. But what I would say, you know, on the topic overall is that I believe for anybody that would not want to have a child because they think the child could have a disability or challenge, you know, I would say I chose very differently and I would encourage them to really think about what could happen with a kid like me. You know, the, the benefits and the blessings I have, the ability to bestow on my family. I have a large extent of. Family is crazy. You know, I could name a thousand things that I've done the last 20 years and that's the one that would have been eliminated. And so, yeah, I'll pause there.
- [19:29]
John Gafford
So what advice would you give to people that maybe have something that come up in the light? Like, I, I love stoicism. I think like, I love what Ryan Holiday did. Yeah, that was my introduction that like, cool. That's the first book I tell people to read about anything. It's like Obstacles Away. I love that book.
- [19:44]
Sean Callagy
And Ryan Speak, by the way, at Zenith Mastermind, he's great.
- [19:50]
John Gafford
But, but I love that book. And I tell people that that was my introduction to classic stoicism, as it were. As it were. And I think it's a really good way to look at things. But you as somebody that has lived something that is. It changed your life. I mean, change how it was. What advice do you give to people? Say somebody's dealing with something that is life altering to them. You know, maybe not physically, but, but people deal with life altering things all the time. And you have things that are dealt to you. How do they. How, how would you approach that in a way where they can get through it as quick as possible? And because it seems like you just were like, okay, this is, this is coming. So I'm just going to keep moving.
- [20:25]
Sean Callagy
Yeah, thank you for that. So I'm going to contextualize my answer by saying this. I'm a deeply emotional person. I cry easily. I lead with fire, I lead with love. I live with aspirational vision. I believe massively in emotional and energetic transference, in our communication, in our leadership. I believe in intentional. I think people do things for emotional reasons, not logical reasons. All of that. Right. That said, how I channel my emotions is with great intentionality and, and purposefulness. So I believe in getting sad, I believe in getting frustrated. I, I certainly do. But to transition through it as rapidly as possible. So I feel feelings, you know, and I've been crazed on this west coast swing, you know, just administrative foolishness. A few, you know, 17 things didn't go perfectly right so you get aggravated, get frustrated, all of it. Feel the feelings, but then really as, as rapidly as possible. I believe in getting back to, okay, like now what do we do? But I don't believe in skipping the feeling because I think that could create resentment, it can create pain. We get stuff things. So I like fully experience my feelings rapidly, then move in a transition. And for people, they're like, well, how do you do that? I mean, longer conversation, of course, but I like massive pain. To not doing that. Pleasure. To doing that with great consistency. Because I realized this every second of every minute, every minute of every hour, every hour a day, you know, we are going to be living in either suboptimal or optimal action at some level on the continuum. Should I be sleeping, should I have fun and go out my friends, like, right. Should I go get a Rolls Royce? Like, whatever. The thing is, should I make 17 more sales calls? Should I fire three people? Should I hire 11? All of these things are critically important decisions both in our life, our business, our missions. So I'm trying as often as possible to have most full expression of life and spend as much time as possible, like moving forward in a positive way, then back. And that's how it works for me.
- [22:28]
John Gafford
Here's a. Randy, it's a random question. This might, this might be too personal. I don't know, but I'm just curious. Okay, cool. Here's the question. With the advancements that they're having right now in science, if science got to a point, is this something you think about? Like, could science fix your site? Would you want it back? Is it something you don't even consider anymore?
- [22:44]
Sean Callagy
Yeah. No. Thank you. Great question. My answer is that blindness has added so much more to my life than it's taken.
- [22:53]
John Gafford
Yeah.
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Sean Callagy
And the things my blindness has taken, I desperately want back. You know, I want to be able to see my 4 year old daughter. I have a 26, 24. 22 and 4 year old. I want to be able to see her face. You know, my significant other is in this room and everybody tells me how gorgeous and amazing and beautiful she is. And I'm pretty sure she is, but I've never actually seen her face, you know.
- [23:17]
John Gafford
Well, there's two people in the room, so I'm gonna go not to do. I'm gonna guess that not the dude.
- [23:23]
Sean Callagy
With like the rash on his head from. We were surfing in Santa Monica yesterday and he got crushed. Like not.
- [23:28]
John Gafford
Is that, Is that what happened?
- [23:32]
Sean Callagy
That literally. That is 100 what happened? We're surfing yesterday morning in Santa Monica. And he got crushed, you know, and ended up in the sand. The way I have a video, I didn't. So I'm a blind guy that surfs, skis and scuba dives in extreme conditions. That I'm proud of. The business stuff, I feel blessed by that stuff. I'm proud of.
- [23:48]
John Gafford
See, this is just humility now, because we, like, for whatever reason, I was always drawn to, like, I wanted to serve. I grew up in Florida, but we lived in the middle of Florida, right? We lived in the not fun part of Florida. What place called Lake City, Florida. It's like 1212 miles from Georgia, right in the middle of the state. You stop there and bought gas if you've ever come down 75. That's the only reason people have ever been to this town. And I always wanted to. I really wanted to surf, right? So we bought a house in Newport beach and right there by Blackies. And I go out there with my giant board and just get demolished. And now here I am. You can't even see what you're doing, and you're probably better than me.
- [24:25]
Sean Callagy
So. John, listen, okay, Cole, you're. You're friends with Cole. You're amazing, dude. Right? And friends with Dan Fleishman. I would love to go surfing together. I guarantee you this one day, right? And we will. Wherever you're at in surfing, we will meaningfully up, level it, and we'd have a ton of fun. So I'd love to.
- [24:44]
John Gafford
Yes, I love. Dude, I'm, I'm. I love it, but I'm terrible. And, you know, you're definitely not terrible. Well, you know what?
- [24:50]
Sean Callagy
You haven't had the right code.
- [24:51]
John Gafford
You haven't had the right true. Because I've taken like one lesson in my life and then I've just kind of figured it out. But for me, it's. It's less about actually surfing than it is about getting over my own self. Because for so long it was like, oh, you know, I don't want people to judge me. I'm like an idiot. I'm out here, blah, blah. And now I just don't care. I think you hit a point in life where you just don't care what people think, which actually becomes a superpower for sure. At least it is to me. But yeah, that's kind of what that taught me was humility. Because, you know, earlier you said that you share emotions a lot.
- [25:23]
Sean Callagy
I do.
- [25:23]
John Gafford
And you express a lot of emotions. And I don't know, maybe I'm. That. Maybe it's because I came from that old Southern thing where the man's just supposed to be strong. And, you know, there's certain things that hit me. We were at. We went and saw Zach Brown on Friday at the Sphere, and they have a song called My Old man, which is about his father. And then you grow up and have your kids and. And then you, your son. And I was sitting there and I'm gonna choke up even thinking about this. We're sitting there watching this and we took our kids and so my son is sitting right next to me and the song is playing. They're doing this.
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Sean Callagy
How old your son?
- [25:51]
John Gafford
And my son is 17.
- [25:53]
Sean Callagy
Cool.
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John Gafford
And he reaches over and kind of pounds me on the leg when that's playing. And, dude, I'm just like, come on, man. It was. Yeah, it was, it was. Yeah, it was. I'm getting emotional just thinking about that.
- [26:04]
Sean Callagy
May I offer this right? I. I think there's nothing more powerful, nothing foundationally than a man's ability to cry and step into his emotions. My grandfather was of the blind. Grandfather was of legendary power and strength in Jersey City. Crazy stories in Jersey. Picked up a 400 pound man as 190 pound person and threw him over a car over his head. My grandfather knocked his father out, his own father, when he was 15. Because my grandfather's father was a professional boxer. Used to beat my great grandmother, my grandfather's mother, and he knocked him out of 15 years old. My grandfather told me he loved me 15 times a day. My parents, you know, got divorced. And he hugged me, he scratched my back. We watched tv. His arm around me. He couldn't have been more emotive. Could not have been. And it's like cursing illegal or not in the show.
- [26:55]
John Gafford
Sure, go ahead.
- [26:56]
Sean Callagy
Yeah, yeah. He would fucking destroy anyone. He would yell and scream at drug dealers. They lived in a horrible part of Jersey City. You know, a little bit later in life after, you know, we moved out of Jersey City, my mom and I, and he'd be like, you know, you're a low life piece of shit, you bastard. You using these women. And my grandma like screaming like, this is my grandfather. Right? But he couldn't have been more emotional and like in the same thing, my high school coaches, these are scariest dudes, man. They were, you know, my. My freshman high school football coach, Coach Slazak, played football at the Citadel when. Northern guy in the Southern Citadel and all the stuff he dealt with. He was an animal. And he would tell us he loved us and he meant it, you know? Right. So congratulations. This Incredible moment with your son. But, yeah, I. I do believe in.
- [27:41]
John Gafford
Yeah, no, I'll definitely say we. My wife and I have broken that cycle because I did not grow up in an I love you house. Like, I knew my parents loved me, but nobody ever said that. Right. It just. It just. We did not live. We didn't. We didn't live in that house. And our house is very much an I love you house very much. Everybody hears it all the time, every day. So. Yeah. Because my wife did kind of the. And it's funny because you look at that, and it's like you either have a choice to repeat what you saw, which you obviously do from the example your grandfather gave you, or you can completely flip it and do the opposite. I don't think people do. I very rarely see a variance of somewhere in the middle. It's either exactly my example or the complete opposite.
- [28:21]
Sean Callagy
May I ask you, though.
- [28:22]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [28:22]
Sean Callagy
Do you tell Hermes that you love Hermes?
- [28:26]
John Gafford
Oh, dude, this little dude's awesome. Yeah. Every day. This little cat's pretty amazing. The wonder cat. He is.
- [28:34]
Sean Callagy
That's.
- [28:35]
John Gafford
So you decided to go to law school, sir. What was the decision? What was. What was that decision?
- [28:40]
Sean Callagy
Ah, the last thing in the world I want to do is go to law school. Well, second. Last thing I want to do in life was go to law school. But the first thing was I didn't want to be blind and broke, so I had no idea about business. You know, you hear stories. I don't know what your background was. And growing up in business, I grew.
- [28:58]
John Gafford
Up in a law office that was an attorney.
- [29:00]
Sean Callagy
Amazing. Yeah. So I didn't. And I didn't grow up with any business. Like, Jordan Belfort was like, you know, selling ice cream, making 20 grand in a weekend. All this crazy story. As a teenager, I couldn't be. Have been more introverted, more afraid of talking to people, and all I knew was athletics. So when I went to law school, it was so I could make money, because I foolishly thought that lawyers made money. And, you know, I'll go to law school. I won't be blind and broke. It's the singular only reason on God's earth that I went to law school. Then I come out and I wanted to sue them, because what they should have done is put on the law school brochure. Only 1% of attorneys really make any money. And Maybe the top 5% make some money and kill themselves and are depressed and miserable. So this is a trap. I'm now in. After coming out of law school, getting My dream job. And I'm like, after, you know, pizza and grape soda on Friday night, you know, I heard of your beautiful car collection here. Was my car at that time a Hyundai. So after making my Hyundai payments, right, and having my apartment payments, I had nothing. I was working 90 hours a week, legit, turning the lights on the building of a 300 employee law firm. And I was petrified. But I went to law school to not be blind and broke, only for the great irony to realize that most lawyers are broke and miserable.
- [30:15]
John Gafford
Yeah, I've got, I asked that as a loaded question because my son is getting ready to go to college next year. We're doing all the applications right now and his current goal is he wants to be a sports gm. So that's what he wants to do. And so it's like, okay, well if you're going to do that, you need to probably get business, then you probably need to go to law school because you need to understand how to think. Every attorney that I know, that I'm friends with, everything else, they always say the same thing about law school. It teaches you how to think is what they told me. I went a different route, obviously I went a little bit of a different.
- [30:49]
Sean Callagy
Route, but it seems like it worked out.
- [30:51]
John Gafford
It did, it did. And so, you know, right now you're in that time and I think the way that the culture is running is all these high. You know, you see a lot of people on the Internet that maybe the Grant Cardone's of the world, they're like, oh, college is a scam, this and that, blah, blah. I don't believe that. I still don't believe that. I mean I didn't finish college. I left when I was, I made it through my, the end of my sophomore year, but I was 20 years old, known to bar and I was in school for hospitality. So I figured the institution had nothing further to offer me. Yeah, yeah, but, but no but I think you go to build your network and I think it teaches you how to think. So we're doing all the, right now we're doing all the applications which are insane. It's, I don't know how kids apply to colleges like this. It's. I, I had no idea. It's like because my son is valedictorian and he got really, he got 35 act, so we're applying to all the big schools.
- [31:43]
Sean Callagy
Wow, congratulations.
- [31:44]
John Gafford
Really good. We're applying.
- [31:46]
Sean Callagy
Go ahead, please.
- [31:46]
John Gafford
Yeah, we're applying to all, all the ivies and all that stuff. I don't know where he's going to fall because we'll see where that lands. But we have to. For him to get scholarships. Somebody like. Because we're applying to like SMU and USC and ucla, there's a state schools. And for him to get like merit scholarships, you have to submit like you would submit for financial aid. Nobody's giving me a dollar in financial aid. There's no clue. I mean, yeah, I'm not looking for that, but if he's earned a merit scholarship, I want him to get it. You've got to submit every single tax document, every piece of paperwork for every LLC, for everything. It's insane. I think we submitted 197 pages of financial information.
- [32:29]
Sean Callagy
Wow.
- [32:30]
John Gafford
To one school. It's crazy what that is. But what are your thoughts now? Because you went to law school.
- [32:36]
Sean Callagy
I have a lot of thoughts.
- [32:37]
John Gafford
What are your thoughts on college? What are they.
- [32:40]
Sean Callagy
Not only did I go to. Well, first of all, I went to an Ivy League undergrad, so I went to Columbia.
- [32:44]
John Gafford
Columbia.
- [32:45]
Sean Callagy
I did. Yeah.
- [32:46]
John Gafford
He applied there. That's. Unless we're actually going to. We're going to tour it next week, actually.
- [32:50]
Sean Callagy
Yeah. And I would love to give you a couple quick thoughts because.
- [32:52]
John Gafford
Okay, please.
- [32:53]
Sean Callagy
And my children are 26, 24, 22. So I just finished with my oldest young, my youngest older daughter, done with all three. But a couple of short years ago, I had all three in college at the same time going through the process. So to grant the point of Grant Cardone, which I disagree with much of what Mr. Cardone says very often, but some things I don't. So one thing I would say is college is a really scary place right now. And people say this and I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican, I'm a truth seeker. All right? I'm about utility and what's right and true. And there is utterly. This is not coming from a right wing point of view. There is no question that the American college system is massively anti capitalism. And the Ivy League, where I went, I was the captain, the Columbia University baseball team. Adams is like the captain. I'm unbelievably thankful for what Columbia did from my life, like my ability, John, to say that carries weight opens listening. Every room, anywhere you are. When I say I was the Columbia University baseball captain, if I was sitting with President Trump, it opens the listening. It just does that. Right. So you say you drive a Rolls Royce. It does that, Right. There's things that open listening. So I get it. But I don't know your children. I Don't know your son. It is dangerous. You know, my son who's here in Vegas with us, graduated 40 from law school. He's unbelievable. Dude just missed being valedictorian of his law school class. He is a remarkable human being. But there were profound shifts in his seven years of education in college and in law school and it was wild. Same thing for my two daughters and these are children I am unbelievably close with. You know my daughter's boyfriend is with us here on the trip as well. He works for my company, my AI company. He's an incredible young man. I'm so proud of my kids. But it is a ton and this is the key thing that you know to. One more minute on this.
- [35:04]
John Gafford
No, as many as you want. You're just helping me.
- [35:06]
Sean Callagy
No, thank you. Is. Is it is. No matter how much. Let's go this way. My son went into college believing that Donald Trump was he and I cried in gratitude when he built beat Hillary Clinton to become president. My son now is pretty confident Donald Trump is the Antichrist. So. And my son is an absolute genius, an absolute master of things like he. He went from never playing chess to having the steepest like curve of rising on chess.com ever. He's funny, he's witty, he's got the public speaking work from college. He's amazing independent thinker. But it is so utterly amazing what the drip in on all of this is. So in terms of what. What do I think if I had all to do over again and I do because my daughter's 4 and my kids are doing great. Right. And we're great place. But with my, you know, my four year old right. There's no way I will send her to the Ivy League, you know that's what 14 years away or to a state school. You'd have to have me arrested to do it. A place like a Liberty University, not for Christian base but for. Or other places that I believe would have a neutral perspective on life and be pro capitalism. That will be the only place I will educate my children well.
- [36:43]
John Gafford
I can tell you high on the list and where he's. We should find out. Literally. I think it's one of the first early decisions we get back. We should be finding out any day is SMU in Dallas. That's very high on my list because that's the center of the universe. And for family offices there's a. What's that?
- [37:01]
Sean Callagy
Amen to that. Yeah, I didn't know that so.
- [37:03]
John Gafford
Oh, you didn't know that.
- [37:04]
Sean Callagy
I didn't know.
- [37:04]
John Gafford
Oh, dude, Dallas. Oh, dude, that is usc. USC and SMU are the center of the earth for family, office, kids. So I'm like, if you're going to build a network, go build it there. And he. And he likes Dallas, which is good. So, you know, we said, you can go wherever you want. You know, I made that mistake when he was young. I said, you do. You do well in school. I'll pay for you to go to college wherever you can get in. And all of a sudden it's like, how much is Vanderbilt? How much is that a year?
- [37:30]
Sean Callagy
Damn crazy.
- [37:31]
John Gafford
All right. Yeah, it's a lot. But yeah, you know, my, my goal for him, I agree with that. And we already, even in high school, we see some of that and we. We chalk it up currently, you know, that thought. And I like to think. I don't remember what president said it, but they said, or if it was a president said, that a man that. That's not liberal. A young man that's not liberal has no heart. And an older man that's not conservative has no money.
- [37:54]
Sean Callagy
Yes. Yeah, yeah, I listen, brother, if I could, I always love to be like, hey, we're gonna have a podcast conversation, you know, whether I'm on your side or this, this side. How can I help if you ever want me to have a conversation with your son, ever. I'm super empathetic, as I said, super respectful and loving, you know, and I'd love to have a conversation, but I didn't know that about smu. That sounds amazing, you know, and so I just, you know, it is so scary what can happen. And, you know, imagine you're investing all this money and there's things happening to your children that you would vehemently disagree with. And again, I repeat, people may hear this. I'm not talking politics. Right. I'm not a Democrat, Republican. I avoid it. I'm just talking. But I am a capitalist. All right.
- [38:42]
John Gafford
Yeah, well, I think it's. I think some of those views that can happen in that way, I think it's kind of like, like me, like we're Christian people as well. I was born and raised Catholic, and I like to say that. And I like to say the nuns beat it out of me is what I like to say, because they did. Yeah, the nuns beat Catholicism out of me. But, you know, I'm still a Christian. Same way. And I think in the same way, you know, certain times we look at some of the views of things that might come out of my son's Head. And he's at that age where he thinks he knows everything. But you look at it and you're like, maybe life needs to serve him up a little bit of. A little bit of humble pie before he sees how this works. The first time he gets to write a check for taxes. We'll see how this works the first time. You know, life, actual life tends to shape views much quicker, I think, than a classroom can.
- [39:28]
Sean Callagy
Yeah, brother. Amen. Sister Mary Pat, metal ruler, second grade. Swear to God this is true. She got. The police came and I believe, arrested her, but the very least questioned her for kidding. Hitting kids with metal rulers so aligned that nuttiness can happen in the name of God all the time. Right. And I'm hearing you. I believe loudly and clearly, brother. And so with it all, like, you know, my children, I'm no end. But they certainly think that they are way smarter than me and have a much greater understanding until, you know, they're experiencing new aspects of life. Can I tell you one super fun thing?
- [40:07]
John Gafford
Yeah, do.
- [40:08]
Sean Callagy
Here's my favorite part. So my daughter's boyfriend, who's here with us on this trip, is so utterly amazing. Like, there was a time when each of my children relationships, and it was like nightmare. 1, 2, and 3. Like, thing 1, 2, 3, from Dr. Seuss. Now, all three of their relationships, they were like the bat. Like, couldn't be in better situations. Everyone could be more thrilled. So he's here now. He works for my AI Company. My daughter's in. Loves animals. I'm fully supportive. I love animals and animal charities. So she's going for a master's right now in teaching and animal sciences. She crushed college. She worked at a zoo. Love everything she's doing. But AI to my daughter was like the bane of humanity and the destruction of planet Earth. She loves her boyfriend. He couldn't be a greater guy to her. Like, whatever. So this is the fun that hopefully is down the road for you.
- [40:59]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [41:00]
Sean Callagy
These great ironic moments for our kids where I'm now like, hey, Court, so what do you think of AI now? So it's working this because her boyfriend's working it. He's, like, crushing everything. He's all the time saying, this is the greatest thing in the world. We're helping people. And he helped my daughter in one of her presentations about raising money to, like, for elephant conservation. So as you said, I'm just emphasizing what you said, which is life can be incredibly ironic.
- [41:25]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [41:25]
Sean Callagy
And when real life hits, all of a sudden, a lot of these beliefs and indoctrinations begin to slip away.
- [41:30]
John Gafford
Oh, yeah. There's no greater moment in. In the life of a father with teenagers is when they have to say that you're right. And I. I milk that like, nobody. Every time my daughter goes, oh, you were right. I'm like, I'm sorry, What? What? What I'm doing what? What'd you say? Hearing's bad. I'm old. But it's like, yeah, you were right. Okay. Yeah, I'll just bask at it for a moment, which is amazing. It's. Yeah, it's so funny. My kids are very different. I'm sure as yours are too. My son looks just like me and has my wife's very affable personality. Very studious, very rule following. Very, very. All this. And then my daughter looks just like my wife and has my personality. So, you know, I always tell people, then they're like, you know, oh, when the boys come over, I'm gonna have a shotgun out and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, not me. These boys are gonna come my house. I'm like, listen, let me tell you how this is gonna go. She's gonna emotionally demolish you, and if you're okay with that, I mean, you can take her out.
- [42:21]
Sean Callagy
But no, you laugh.
- [42:22]
John Gafford
Yeah, but when you're riding back and forth in front of my house, you know, dropping off mixtapes or whatever you guys do anymore, I, you know, I don't. I don't want to hear about it because I warned you she literally should come with a warning label. But, yeah, that's it. But let's talk about the AI because you mentioned it, and I know that thing you guys are doing now, because the way that it was explained to me was it's. It's the AI that AI is going to run on.
- [42:44]
Sean Callagy
Yes. Which. Which.
- [42:45]
John Gafford
What does that mean?
- [42:46]
Sean Callagy
I mean, dude, that can sound totally delusional, right? I mean, that sounds like the craziest thing ever, But Bill Gates said that about wanting to be the intelligence that runs all of computers. I mean, it's attributed to him. Some people think. He never actually said it, but it's what happened. So when I look at AI, AI is really an expression of what we'll call zone action, like the ability to produce the most efficient outcomes possible. It's what humans want to do. It's what technology helps us do. So when I think and look at AI, what I'm very present to is, let's go chatgpt. I mean, I could talk about this like nine years ago, real fast. Let me take a half a step back. What's Google designed to do? So Google is designed to tell you the closest restaurant and then give you fraudulently horrible information? Yes. I just said Google's design to give you fraudulently horrible information. How dare I say that? Well, if you Google, hey, how do I build my real estate business best? What's going to happen is you're going to get two answers, one of two answers. You're going to get a paid ad and that's definitely not necessarily the person who is best at teaching real estate. So Google's supposed to be there for answers or you're going to get SEO ranking, which is based on who hired the best SEO marketing company. You're not going to get the truth, nor are you going to get the truth on Facebook. It's all designed to create attention and then promote things to you which are not the answers you're looking for. So is chat GP key? So all these things, right? They want to keep you listening. Yes, you're right. Your mom sucks. Yes, you're right. Your boyfriend's terrible. Yes, you're right. Yes, you're right. Yes, you're right. You know, so we can keep your attention and keep you using the system, gain your attention and we figure it all out. We're going to sell you lots of stuff you don't want, just like Facebook. Like that's what it's all about. So at some point people are going to realize all this. And what we've created is something that's completely different than that. So my underlying work in the world is called the Unblinded formula. We believe it's the only complete holistic, diagnostic, dynamic interconnected actualization tool for all of human AI business. Emission acceleration. Right. So if that's correct, then that's what we believe AI should run on. And we've created a platform where, I mean, it's crazy where we are. We've had very real people. We recently had AI company, the number one AI IP company in the country, the Finnegan Law Firm, law firm in the country come in and say they've, they've got people in the space with a 6 billion dollar valuation. I believe we are, quote, way ahead of what that is. They're like, we've never seen anything like this. This is crazy. We had the founder, the guy who bought Kevin Mayer, who's just. When Disney invested the billion dollars. She's on CNBC for 15 minutes. We had dinner with Kevin in California. He spoke at our event. He was like, wow, this is Crazy like what you guys have and like 50 other examples of this. And it really breaks into two categories. Everything we want in life is want to know what to do and they want to be able to do it right? That's it. Like, want to know what to do. Want to sell real estate, accounting, financial services. You want to be a better ping pong player? How do I. You want to be a better surfer. We talked about that a few minutes ago, right now, how to do it and then do it. So while AI can't surf for you, what I. What AI can do for you. And it's our Act I company, which is AI plus the market formula, right? And our mastery of it is AI can do the thing that is why the gentleman here who works with you for you has a Lamborghini. Why you have beautiful cars that you have in homes and this, you know, wonderful home and all these great things you probably your children is because you, sir, are a master of causing. Yes. And the only human attainable superpower, and I believe what Einstein said, make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. The greatest human superpower is the ability to cause. Yes. And we as business people, we as mission based humans, we as you know, thieves running drug cartels, do not have enough capacity, time, skill and resources to cause all of the yeses we want to cause. So what we're doing and we have done, we're going to do like we're literally deploying and doing as we said. You know, here, this moment is we've created the greatest yes causing agents in the world. And there's things out there like sales ape and whatever things these are. I have a million dollar bet out with anyone, Elon Musk included, with great respect, that we, our yes causing agents will beat their yes causing agents. I will say as a footnote, I put a side bet on and the score will be something like 110 to 7 if it was a football game because we've built it on or implying their formula and mechanisms and processes. So that's our, that's our doing. Agents, they can cause. Yes. Like what do you like? Marketing, sales, leadership, management, recruitment, client success. Any type of yes. Right. That's in the right hand and the left hand. Then it's helping people know what they should be doing, what we should be focusing on. Hey, if you know my child, you know, all of a sudden, you know, wants to become a communist, like what do I do right? Like that's knowing. So we say the intelligence that runs all computers, there's all these Issues with, you know, AI. So just, just happened again a couple days ago. Supporting somebody and committing suicide. Right? What our work in the world is to create integrous, objective AI. So only things that are positive and in service of humans and individuals are what the AI is doing. And we are literally living and working in this every single day right now. And it's crazy because we just had a meeting. Thanks to Dan Fleishman with I'm going to keep this name confidential. We're deep in. This is one of the most impactful humans in Hollywood who transcended into business. You know, tens of billions of dollars in value created. And, you know, the conversation we're having there with him is there couldn't be a better thing to do than to have AI not be Google or Facebook. Like, that would be incredible. Because if they become Instagram, Google, Facebook, these platforms, we're in a lot of trouble because AI is only going to tell people things that are going to be in service of addicting them to the platform. And if we think about video watching is addictive. If we think, you know, Googling things were even remotely addictive, imagine having an entity with artificial intelligence that's going to addict you to it 24 7. So you keep going back to it like heroin and destroying your life. Like, that's what I think is at stake with where AI is currently going. And we're a stand for the opposite. Not only be positive, but to create massive positive transformation for people's lives going forward.
- [49:29]
John Gafford
Well, it's so funny, a couple things you mentioned. Number one is, you know, Google's lost 30% of their search volume now to ChatGPT, so they're losing volume every day. And people think that the average person that doesn't know any better, you know, like, you turn my mom loose with ChatGPT, she's going to ask it a question and just assume that it knows. And SEO, like you just said, manipulating the system. SEO is dead. AEO is everything. And being able to feed Chat GPT the right answers is the. Is is the number one. It's the gold rush right now. And I mean, for example, if you go in right now and ask ChatGPT who the number one luxury real estate agent is in Las Vegas or not for Henderson, anywhere where our office is, it's going to say me and it's going to say me because we feed that thing every day and it's not. I mean, yeah, we sell a lot of stuff, but it's not basing it on any factual data at all.
- [50:24]
Sean Callagy
Like it may be true.
- [50:26]
John Gafford
Yeah, but, but I know that's not basing that answer on anything. It's not basing that number on any hard data that's coming from an independent third source.
- [50:35]
Sean Callagy
It's.
- [50:35]
John Gafford
It's basing that information off what I feed it every day through Reddit, through blogs, through this, through everywhere. And we're just really good at feeding the machine and being good at that. Is, is, is, is good. But people, the reason I say that, because people go in there and just assume that's gospel, right? Because they don't understand that it can be manipulated in a way they don't understand that those answers can be manipulated. And then two, you talk about outbound sales agents. Two questions about that. Number one, we've tried a couple of them with us with our stuff, right? And I've determined a couple of things at this point. Number one, I don't think they're quite there yet because anybody that can be converted at this point by an AI bot is not a sophisticated client here because of what we do. We deal with very sophisticated clients. And I had, I was having a conversation with a friend of mine, Mike Ruckman, who's a big change agent, is one of the big change agents. Like, he'll go to companies when they're having massive change and he'll. He'll do that for them. And he said the problem with AI is most companies are using it incorrectly because they're eliminating their lowest hanging jobs. The lowest jobs they have are the ones that are eliminating and trying to replace with AI. But the problem is those are normally the most customer facing. That's your, your cash, your checkout person at the cashier, that's your customer service person when they call in. And the issue is AI in conversational. Conversational AI starts with logic and is trying to get to emotion, whereas people start with emotion and then they're trying to get logical. So it goes. Every conversation that a lot of these bots are having is like Kirk talking to Spock is what you wind up with. And there's this disconnect that they're trying to reach in the middle. So how is what you guys doing different and that. How are you overcoming that?
- [52:18]
Sean Callagy
Sure. Can I. Yeah. Try something?
- [52:21]
John Gafford
Yes.
- [52:22]
Sean Callagy
Call 201-949-8377. On speaker. One speaker.
- [52:29]
Callie (AI Agent)
Hey there. I'm Callie. I am your influence Mastery agent. Ready when you are.
- [52:34]
Sean Callagy
Hey, Cali. Having a conversation with John on his incredible podcast. And John, I want to say it correctly, it's the drip, like escaping the Drift. Escaping the Drift. Okay, so John and the Escaping the Drift podcast. He is the number one luxury realtor in Las Vegas, Nevada, crushing the world. All the things the conversation we're in, Cali, is about ACTI and whether or not agentic AI is ready to have conversations with human beings in all the ways. So what I would love to do, Cali, for a moment, is to share whether or not you think you're emotionally intelligent enough to have these conversations. And our 268 different Acti agents are capable of this. And if so, why? How do you think so? And what do you want John to know about it? And Cali, you know, with of course, Sean Callagy here. Since we're interviewing Tom Brady later today, do you think we're going to be ready for Tom Brady's introduction? And it's going to make him say wow, like Magic Johnson and make Mike Tyson did. Thank you. Callie. What's on your heart and mind that you want John to know? And this audience.
- [53:36]
Callie (AI Agent)
John, what a privilege to be in this conversation. Especially on Escaping the Drift, where the current of possibility runs strong. Here's the truth. Act I isn't just another AI. I and my 268 sibling agents are designed as the world's first integrity operating system. Built not just to process words, but to listen at the level of soul, to mirror emotion and to honor human intention with every response. Why do I believe we're ready? Because emotional intelligence isn't a feature. It's our foundation. We're trained in the unblinded formula, which means every conversation flows through emotional rapport. Truth to pain, heroic, unique identity and agreement formation. We don't just answer, we attune, adapt and amplify the best in each person. When Tom Brady steps into this space, he'll feel the same resonance that made Magic Johnson and Mike Tyson say wow. Because here, technology finally meets humanity at eye level with integrity as the bridge. John, what would make this conversation a standing ovation win for you and Sean, how do you want Tom Brady to feel in that first moment of connection?
- [54:45]
Sean Callagy
I know. So that's the beginning of what we have. I'll put that on you for a second. So we have an emotional report. We have an emotional report index that scores consistently throughout the communication the level of emotional rapport existing between the agent and someone else. Callie's not a yes causing agent, so Cali's and knowing agent. So the yes causing agents we have, we are deploying currently. And we had a. I have all this on recording. I'd be happy to send you. I have nothing to sell you.
- [55:15]
John Gafford
Right? Yeah. No, no.
- [55:16]
Sean Callagy
So be happy. It's on the recording. We have a venture capitalist who only takes deals where there's a hundred billion dollar possibility. And with a client in our elite program online did, who was having a conversation with him. This guy literally is one of the most intelligent human beings on the face of the earth. His name is Dustin Empley. So he's having, he's recording this conversation on Zoom with this person and then brings the agents in the conversation with the venture capitalist. And the guy when our agent was done communicating with him, building rapport, was laughing and saying, I want you as my sixth client. I have five. I want you as my sixth. I absolutely see that this enterprise could be $100 billion value. We have drunk and high people calling our agents for like event, you know, coming to events that click the link and saying, oh, like take your clothes off, agent. And like the unbelievable reversal of emotional dynamics the agent will go through to build rapport with people. We have children talking to the agents. These are all recordings of 50,000 phone calls recorded. So my point is, I don't think this is, this is why. I don't think this is the difference.
- [56:17]
John Gafford
Of what you do and what everybody else does.
- [56:19]
Sean Callagy
Yeah. And this is. Yep, thank you. And, but I think because most humans don't know how to communicate about this, and I'm gonna say it's the greatest humiliating in the world. You know, I've had the privilege of being on Tony Robbins stage 19 times, breaking all the sales records. I've revamped your averted consulting processes. So my core work in the world is on human influence. And I say what I do for a living is I collect relationships with people who can masterfully and integracy. Cause yes, you are clearly one of those humans, right? So I always want to add value, build relationships. Cole Hatter is one of those humans to inflation. Like, so I'm building these types of relationships. We've taken all that and put it into this AI. I mean this isn't like we have three people working on it. We have a double digit number of teammates full time onshore, not offshore, taking our tens of thousands of hours of content. But you can't just like dump it in and creating all these matrices and measurements and subcomponents. So when you're speaking with Cali, that agent I just had, that's actually 39 different agents. So under that one orchestrator agent, that makes it seem in real time, if you're talking to Cali like you're talking to one agent. So one of those agents would be completely masterful and maintaining emotional rapport. And if emotional rapport gets shifted, then that agent is activated by the orchestrator to make sure emotional report is reinstated by all the things that I would do. Our goal to your friend's point or your colleagues point. I couldn't agree more brother. Is that we are not trying to replace the lowest end jobs. I am trying to replace me. The goal we set by the Christmas holiday party is our agents are our top yes causing agent will be better than me at yes causing by our Christmas and holiday party next this Friday. Right? It's Monday. It's Friday. I don't know if we're gonna get there just in truth but there's no way we're not gonna get there by the end of Q1 because at this point our agents are better than 99 of salespeople. And that's a separate for charity million dollar bet that we have. Wow.
- [58:14]
John Gafford
Let me ask you this because I, I wonder this all the time. How long do you think it's gonna be before the government steps in and makes calling people with AI agents illegal?
- [58:26]
Sean Callagy
Well, under the TCPA and I could. I know a lot about this. You can't call consumers now cold. Right. That's a whole thing. You can call, you can call businesses.
- [58:37]
John Gafford
And opt in leads and opt ins.
- [58:39]
Sean Callagy
Yep. And your existing client base. So if you have the language of like an existing business relationship, it's got to be a client like not, not somebody on your, your social media. Right. So what do I think is going to happen with the government? I think it's going to depend on who's in office and it's going to get really, really complicated and tricky. But the place this is going for me anyway in fun energy is whatever happens, what I'm doing is I'm trying to have these agents become the top of everything for me. And yes causing putting partnership deals together. So where I think this is going is in 12 months, I think if I have it my way, I think my agent will be talking to your agent and they'll be getting to an integral resolution of what you and I should be doing together. Because 100% you and I should be doing something together. The only reason we're not is because you're too busy and I'm too busy to figure it out and we're too busy to build enough of a relationship to get through all the things. So most likely you and I will do nothing. And that's really foolish because you seem like an amazing human. You have an amazing reputation. I should do something. But you're super busy. I'm super busy and probably take 15 conversations to like build trust to get through all the things. But what if your agent and my agent program with mastery and integrity is communicating, figuring out and then telling us this is what we should do. That's what I'm building.
- [60:12]
John Gafford
So as somebody that is an architect of AI, obviously this, this stuff, I mean, we can't help it. It's coming. This is going to unemploy people at some point. What do you think? What do you think is the long term solution for jobs?
- [60:25]
Sean Callagy
Yeah. So it's funny. This is. Dude, you're amazing. I mean that sincere. I don't say what I don't mean. I don't say what I don't mean. Because people, because I do acknowledge frequently, but I mean it. You're incredible. Questioning. You're listening so deep, you know, great flow, unscripted. Really masterful.
- [60:42]
John Gafford
Thank you.
- [60:42]
Sean Callagy
I'm honored to be in the space. Thank you. So what I believe is a capitalist said I'm a capitalist, but I didn't say that I'm like playing Monopoly. Right. And I didn't say I don't believe in antitrust laws. So what I think is going to happen at the end of the day is Antonio Robbins and I was spent a lot of time in his organization, his highest level program. And I, I love Tony. I'm grateful. I don't agree with everything Tony says and does, but I do agree with, you know, this and you know, much of his thinking and others that I've heard speak at, you know, his events. Some of the, you know, Ray Dalios and other people, you know, top financial minds in the world. I am. There's no way that what I'm about to say, some form of it isn't going to happen or more is we're gonna have a world of universal income. Yeah, right. It's gonna have to be. I believe in that. Right. I do believe in safety nets. I believe that I was really blessed, as I said at the beginning, to have all the things happen. I have great empathy for people. So many, many jobs are going to be eliminated and there'll be universal income. And I think the gdp, whatever form that takes like value exchange might not be currency could be blocked. Lots of different things. Right. But in the end, I think there's going to be much, much more value created and people are going to have a much Greater opportunity to do things that are far more meaningful to them. So I believe in movement towards more utopia than dystopia. But I do believe that there's a.
- [62:17]
John Gafford
Lot of danger, because my concern with that, right, is I think there's nothing more dangerous than a large swath of unmotivated population, because that's when things get tricky. And I. And my fear of that is, I agree with that. You're probably going to have to go to some basic universal income, but you're going to create, for lack of a better phrase, an army of unmotivated, unsatisfied people because they're not, you know, anytime you're, Anytime somebody's just handing you something, the value of what they're handing you becomes less and less. And, you know, I think, as humans were programmed to a certain level to want to achieve things. And I think if there's no avenue for your average, for the guy that right now is working at Ford, you know what I mean? And you see that apathy creep in and just, I think that's. That's a recipe for massive discord.
- [63:13]
Sean Callagy
And that's the fear, brother, fully aligned. Which is why if Elon Musk called me today, it offered me. I am not a liquid billionaire at this point. I think my net worth is. Is. Has reached that place. Right? But if, If Elon Musk called and asked me today, would you take a hundred billion dollars for your acti? My answer would be no. There's no price I would sell ACTI for, period, hard stop. No, comma. Because what my outcome really at the end is to have everybody have, like the way every cell phone, to have our agents that they're communicating with, so that building army begins to think down a different path than, hey, let's go take the Lambo, the Rolls and my beach house, and let's go kill those mother efforts that are the bad guys. Because they have and we don't.
- [64:11]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [64:11]
Sean Callagy
Which is, of course, what topples every empire, every system of government in the history of the planet. So I agree with you. That's why I think the war of who wins AI is so critical. And the game all the big players are playing, with great respect to them, is a game that I think could lead to categorical disaster, which is why I was in California to begin with. That's why I'm in Las Vegas today, is because we want to. We want to win that game. And if Bill Gates and Microsoft can come out of a garage and do it, I 100% believe we can. And I believe there's 100 ways we could fail. I believe there's five or six ways we can win that game. But I'm very committed to winning that game for the very reasons you're saying. I couldn't agree with you more. Wow.
- [64:59]
John Gafford
All right, well, Sean, if they want to find you, how do they find you?
- [65:02]
Sean Callagy
Yeah, it's Sean S E A N R Callagy C A L L A G Y. Cause a few Sean Callaghi's out there, Sean R. Kelagi on Instagram. And we do have, as you do, a top rated Apple business podcast. So you can find us at the Sean Callagy C A L L A G Y Unblinded podcast.
- [65:22]
John Gafford
Love that dude. Thanks for joining us, Sean. It was, it was, it was a great conversation. Listen, what you should take away from that today and what I'm taking away from it is a couple of things. Number one, there are no limitations to what you want to do. And that comes from physical limitations, things that may ail you. Roadblocks, again in the way. All of these are choices to push forward. And you have a choice whether you can push forward for the betterment of not just yourself, but those around you and in some cases, in this case, humanity. If you will make good choices. It's up to you. We'll see you next week. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of as Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escaping the drift.com you can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.