Dave Anderson (2:49)

I don't have any interesting complaints, man. Thanks so much for having me.

John Gafford (2:52)

No interesting place. Where are you today, man? Where are you?

Dave Anderson (2:55)

I'm at home in Philly relaxing, man. Just finished up homeschool with my youngest, so just relaxing today, thank God.

John Gafford (3:04)

At home in Philly. Are you still. Is the hangover still going from the super bowl win, I'm guessing?

Dave Anderson (3:11)

First of all, there is no hangover. We are still very high. We are high. We are so high. We climb greased polls without a problem, man. Like, this has been just the most wonderful year in football since the last time we won the Super Bowl. So, yeah, man, I'm. I'm having a ball. Most of my friends are having a ball, and I'm really sticking it to all my friends who are cool.

John Gafford (3:30)

Yeah, I can see that. And it's. So let me ask you this. Why does Phil. Why does Philly. Before we get into the thing to help folks, why does Philly have such a reputation for having such confrontational fans? One of my favorite things I've seen on the Internet and by the last year is somebody said, hear me out. A new reality show. We take MMA fighters, we take UFC fighters, and we put them in the opposing team's jerseys and take them to Philly sporting events. They won't survive, I think, dude, what is it about? Is the passion of the city? Is it just. Is it a tribal instinct that we have to beat up opposing fans? What is it?

Dave Anderson (4:08)

We're a gritty city. I don't think people understand. First of all, we're the birthplace of America. We don't get any credit for it. We are always, you know, in the shadow of New York City. The other part of that is all of us, black, white, brown, yellow, we have all had to fight for every inch of what we had. And so we want our respect, and we demand our respect. And if you're cool, we're cool. But if you come with it, we're going to end you. And I Just think that that's what makes us so resilient, man, like you guys. You know, people have different things outside of Philly, like hot dogs and things of that nature. We chop up steaks and put it.

John Gafford (4:46)

On a bun fair.

Dave Anderson (4:50)

We have a jail in Gathering Stadium. Did you notice we have jail at the bottom of Veterans Stadium? We're the first sports complex to have a jail and a courtroom in the stadium.

John Gafford (5:02)

It's probably pretty busy.

Dave Anderson (5:04)

I mean, it was. I think Lincoln Financial Field just takes them off now. But in the days of the vet, when I was a little kid, there was a jail in a court right.

John Gafford (5:12)

There in the stadium. Was that designed to get them back in the stands, to just adjudicate him quickly, give you a ticket and then get you back out?

Dave Anderson (5:21)

There was such a backlog in the jail. Every time was a sporting event because we'd be fighting you. You mix Philadelphia grit with a whole lot of beer. Yeah, bro.

John Gafford (5:31)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Anderson (5:32)

It's gonna be fun.

John Gafford (5:32)

It's not gonna pay off. All right, well. Well, let's talk a little bit about you, man. So obviously you're a guy that's achieved a lot of success and helped a lot of people become very successful. So I'm always. I'm always interested in kind of the nature versus nurture thing, man. Tell me about you growing up.

Dave Anderson (5:46)

Yeah, well, my mom was a teacher, my dad was a cop. So very, you know, basic home life. But everybody in my family, my mom's family, they were really big on education, really big on reading. And you were allowed to have an opinion. You just had to back it up with a whole lot of research. So if you had a difference of opinion, you better be ready to back it up at the dinner table with charts and PDFs and the whole nine. And that was a big thing. The other thing that, you know, when I came up, my brother and I, you could start whatever you wanted to, but you either finished it or you quit. And if you quit, you couldn't pick it back up. So I learned seven instruments, I sang. My brother was a three sport athlete. You know, I was doing radio at nine, TV at 15, you know, so there was this mindset of, you finish what you start and you become the best at it. Or you don't bother doing it at all because your last name meant something in my house, you know, and to this day, that's how I am with my kids. Like Anderson's. Don't give up. You're Anderson. What do you mean you can't do this? Figure it Out.

John Gafford (6:52)

We don't quit. So you said you were doing TV at 9.

Dave Anderson (6:55)

I was doing radio at 9, TV.

John Gafford (6:56)

At 15, doing on the radio at 9.

Dave Anderson (6:59)

Everybody says that, but nobody bats an eye about the Olsen twins having the number one show as infants. I was doing a show called said.

John Gafford (7:08)

Stand there and Get Held. They didn't have to do anything. Hosting a radio show even, dude, you gotta actually kind of bring it. I mean, as a nine year old, you're hosting a radio show. Show.

Dave Anderson (7:17)

Yeah, I was, I was co hosting with an adult, thank God. And I, I was having the time of my life. We were playing, you know, music that was kid centered. We were talking about things that kids go through. Like kids have problems and everybody ignores kids until they grow up or they get into trouble before they grow up. The premise of the show was to give kids a place to feel safe, a safe space. Before that was a thing. And to also give them guidance and show them that life does not have to start when you're 18. There are things you can do now. So we encourage kids to foster their talents, to be creative, to show up and show out and be who they are in an expressive way. And it was a phenomenal breeding ground for me, man. But yeah, from the time I was 9 to the time I was 17, I did that show. And it was one of the greatest experiences in my life.

John Gafford (8:05)

So when did you transition to support kind of behind the scenes with all of these things?

Dave Anderson (8:10)

I would say, you know, at this particular point and in radio, you jump up and down the dial, you know, you're a nomad. And I started to get into programming while still being on the air. And then I got approached to produce very, very young, about 22. I produced my first, my first show in Philadelphia. It's a major market morning show. And then I wound up going to the competition and producing Wendy Williams when she came down from New York. So I was about 22 then, but full time going behind the scenes.

John Gafford (8:44)

What year were you with Wendy Williams?

Dave Anderson (8:45)

Oh, 1998, 1999.

John Gafford (8:48)

Okay, deep. All right, cool. Before I was on her, I was on her show. Yeah, I was on her show like 20 years ago, not 30 years ago.

Dave Anderson (8:55)

Yeah. So, you know, at that point I moved into Austin. I was programming in Austin and I got approached by DJ Clues people to help syndicate Desert Storm Radio. And that was like my first huge syndicated show. And then from there I wound up putting Ricky Smiley in the syndication two years later in Dallas. And after that I became the first director of social media for a broadcast Corporation. And then I retired.

John Gafford (9:23)

Yeah. Let me get right to the top and get out. It's funny, man, you would have thought, man, you would have really thought by this point that radio would be in serious trouble. I mean, my sister actually is. Is on iHeart. She's in Denver. She's number one rated morning show in Denver. She's all talk. And it has been for years, but just like you said. And I keep waiting for it to be like, well, that's kind of the end of talk radio. And it just keeps on trucking. Yeah. Just keeps on doing it.

Dave Anderson (9:49)

Yeah. The thing of it is.

John Gafford (9:51)

Go ahead.

Dave Anderson (9:51)

I think that people don't understand how conditioned we are to tradition. So, for example, you've gone to the movies in the past year or two, right? And you've seen how people will stand in a line like they did when we were kids. Just stand in the line, wait for the pimple face kid to give you your tickets even though you. We got apps, bro. But we're conditioned to that. So people are conditioned to listen to what's happening on morning radio. And there's nothing you can do to fake that authenticity, that local flair and that. That gritty, wonderful quality that radio brings when it comes to talk. Has it diminished? Yes. Has it had to evolve? Yes. Has it had to embrace things that are not traditionally radio? Absolutely. Is it going anywhere? That's like saying, are vinyl records going anywhere? Do we use them all the time? No, but they're back in a big way.

John Gafford (10:42)

Big way, Big way. They're back. And I think, you know, it's funny not to spend all time talking about radio, but this is why I don't have prepared questions because I don't know where these conversations are going to go. Just what I think is interesting, you look at like Spotify and Apple music and all that stuff, right? And I find myself, like, I get in my car and it's. Even to put that Spotify DJ on, whatever. It's like the same 30 songs over and over and over. You just don't get. People don't get exposed to new music like they used to regularly because people don't listen to the radio. There was even if you go on xm, right, or serious, and you put on the channel like it's still the same, like 30 songs in rotation. Yeah, same thing.

Dave Anderson (11:22)

Yeah.

John Gafford (11:22)

There's nothing new. I think just like people kind of gravitated back to vinyl, I think you'll start to see. I think that's why terrestrial radio will always kind of be around.

Dave Anderson (11:31)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other part of that really quick is when you look at the way we operate, people are getting hip, especially in the business world. Like if you buy a commercial spot on a radio station, once the DJ says we're gonna pay some bills, people are tuning out. It's a natural thing to do. If you buy a spot on a podcast or on a YouTube channel or some streaming program, that thing is there forever. So you get a whole lot more bang for your buck. So they're still trying to make adjustments as to how to make up for that in the digital space, but I think there'll always be some stationed someplace and God forbid if there's some type of natural disaster. Natural disaster, you know? You know?

John Gafford (12:10)

Yeah, dude. It's. It's where you get real time information for sure. Let's talk about what you did after you retired, because I think that's where you kind of took off, right? So let's talk about that. What was the, what was the thinking when you retired from radio? What was the leap like? Because a lot of people, man, are in some job that maybe they're doing well. They fit the. They fits the glass ceiling. They fit whatever. They're not getting what they want in life. Talk to me about the decision to walk away from that nine to five into something.

Dave Anderson (12:34)

Now, here's what I understand, and I'm honest with myself. I'm not here to tell you I'm perfect. I'm not. I'm a horrible employee. Not because I don't do my job well, but I want to do the job the way I know the job should be done, not the way that you ding dongs think it needs to happen. And when it's not your ship. You can't control how they want the job done. You just got to go in there and do the job without thinking. That doesn't work for me. And what I realized when I got out of it, when you look at my resume, it's all radio, television, film, standup, all of these things. And if you're a supervisor, you're like, you're just going to do this until you go back to Hollywood. And I'm like, no, I want to do this. And nobody would hire me except for sales gigs. And so I realized that I've been selling since 1987. I've been selling since I was nine years old. The job is to show people how what you have is going to make their lives better or solve a problem. And at that point, once I realized that, I started really killing in these sales jobs. So I sold everything from cable to gutters. And then I started selling home security systems. And I worked for Honeywell. Honeywell had one. And then I was going around cutting out ADT systems. And so ADT bought my contract and I wound up selling for adt. And then people were asking me, how do you sell like this? And I just got sick of telling them. So I wrote a book called Pitch Close, Upsell, Repeat as to what my sales strategy was. And then the next thing I know, you know, 100,000 books out of the trunk, and here we are, off.

John Gafford (14:07)

Off you went. It's so interesting. A couple things you said. Number one, I find that every great entrepreneur is chronically unemployable is what I like to. How I like to refer to them. I myself, miserable, was an employee for a lot of my life. Miserable employee. Like, if I'm not in charge, yeah, I'm a terrible employee. I'm the worst. I did a good job when I worked for major corporations, but I was a miserable employee because I was always like, well, why do we have to do it that way when this way is better? I get it. So that desire to steer your own ship, and if you have that, if you're out there, listen to this and you got that, that's not going to go away. That's something that's in you, or it's not. You know, the second thing, talking about, you know, learn. I love that you talked about when you get great at selling something and you're really talented at it, your competitors will come and recruit you. I mean, if. Yeah, I got a book coming out in November 5th. If you want to get the book, check it out, get on the going mailing list. It's coming out November, November 15th. Distributed by Smith and Schuster. Which is really exciting.

Dave Anderson (15:09)

Yeah.

John Gafford (15:10)

But I talk very much. The most important skill you can learn is sales. Because if you can sell, you can sell everything. Anything. So you went. Your first gig was door to door, which I respect the hell out of that. When I first got into sales, my first job was cars. That's where I learned how to sell, was on car lot a million years ago. I was only there for seven weeks. My buddy told me, if you go spend two months on a car lot, you have a PhD. And he was right. I spent seven weeks on a car lot, and that's where I learned to sell. But going door to door is a whole nother animal. Right? It's that not knowing what's going to happen outside the door so let's talk about what made you great at that. What made you great, bro?

Dave Anderson (15:49)

They asked Jeff Bezos one time, how does he pick an employee, especially when it comes to his inner circle? And he says simply, I find the laziest person I can find because a lazy person is going to figure out the simplest way to do it. And what I realized is I'm in Philly. You said it yourself, it's Philly. Someone just got shot. So I would turn on the TV at 4:00 in the morning and the 600 block of 19th street, there were three shootings. And so the 600 block of 19th street is where I would go. Hey, hey, listen, not to bother you real quick, do you know Ms. Jenkins just got shot? Oh, you didn't hear? What kind of security system do you have? Well, you know, we're running a 39 special right now. Oh no, you don't need to worry about credit or long term contract. It's month to month. Sign here and here. And so by the end of the block, I met my month's quota. And then I would just rinse and repeat every day. That's it. I go to where the need is. I'm not trying to do the random hi, how you doing? I'm Dave with adt. And you know crime is bad. No, I'm going where the bleeding is happening and I'm coming with gauze, some needles, some band aids and a dag on bus to take you to the hospital every day.

John Gafford (17:09)

That, that is. Yeah, I mean I, that is, that is pro, dude. I've been doing this for a long time, right? That's probably the best example I've ever heard of identifying a buying market, identifying a target rich environment, no pun intended, on shooting, but just being able to identify who you're selling to. So how do you take that methodology and translate it into other industries? How do you do it?

Dave Anderson (17:37)

The thing of it is everybody likes to buy. Nobody wants to be sold to. So the thing that people miss out on is they're worrying about their quotas, they're worrying about their commission, they're worrying about making money. They're not concerned about building relationships. It's not what you know. And the lie is, it's who you know. No, it's not. It's who knows you and is willing to admit to it. And so when you start building relationships, the thing that I do with every single person I ever meet, I say, listen, I just got one question for you. What can I do to make your life better? And people are like, wait, you're asking me how you can help me? And I'm like, yeah, because if I help you, and I mean help you in a real way, not like how people say, hey, how you doing? Like, if I help you in a real way, there's nothing you won't do for me. And you know better than anybody, money is one thing, but a favor, when you need to pull it, worth a whole lot more than money. And so that's what you do. You. You find a way to build relationships, and people will be so happy. Hey, have you met Bob? Bob is awesome. You got to sit down about Bob. You got to meet Dave. Dave is crazy. He does all these things, man. He's got the sales technique, and he's got these books, and he speaks all over these. They will start to be your army of how great you are, and you never have to toot your own horn. And so that translates in every single industry. If you're looking at somebody and you know, like, say if you're doing hair and you say, listen, I see that you got some split ends. I understand that. Do you know that the simplest thing to do is do a deep conditioner and then also do some apple cider vinegar rinse, and then put on a bonnet that has satin lining. Or if you don't like bonnets, that's fine, put on a satin lined pillowcase. Your split ends will stop, and you won't need to come into me as much. Now, that might seem like you're losing money, but what you just did was get a customer for life. Loyalty is powerful.

John Gafford (19:25)

Yeah, for. For me, man. My superpower. And I say my superpower. I probably picked it up from Dan Fleischman, who was a friend of mine, and he always says the superpowers, his phone. And I've taken on that same idea, that same Persona, where when I meet somebody and they start talking about what they're doing or, you know, how. How it can help, I don't really look for. I don't ask, how can I help you? I just think, who do I know that could help this person? What connection can make this idea go faster, further? Create a sale, create revenue, help both parties. And they're like, you know, I'll say, like, oh, you know, you gotta meet my friend Bill. I think Bill could really help you with their doing. This is what they're doing. This is why it would work together. Here, give me your number. I'm gonna connect you guys, right? And then a. That is a really simple way to Connect with somebody else. Yeah, and somebody to save you. And if you want somebody to save you in your phone, in their phone, dude, get their number in yours and then do a three way text with somebody that can help them.

Dave Anderson (20:21)

Yeah, it's over.

John Gafford (20:22)

We're gonna say, yeah, they're gonna save that. And I try to always think every time I'm in a situation, some business, I'm like, you've got to connect them with. They could help make this go faster. Right. Or help they're doing. That's always my thought process. So I love that you come from that place of giving and you do that.

Dave Anderson (20:39)

So somebody.

John Gafford (20:40)

When you wrote your first book, man. Because you've written a bunch of books now, right?

Dave Anderson (20:42)

Yeah, like 22.

John Gafford (20:44)

Like 22 bucks. So that first one. And here's the thing, you've been doing this since before AI would spit a book out. So you actually.

Dave Anderson (20:52)

Oh, no, it's me locked in a room. I used to do it with legal pads and I switched to composition books. Then I started to get like cramping in my hands from typing. So now I just verbally do it and let the editors do their thing. But yeah, no way before AI, you know, so yeah, pitch close up somewhere, people.

John Gafford (21:10)

That was the first book. What was it like when you were writing that book and you were going through it, did you know who you wanted to take it to as far as a publisher? What was the goal for that book?

Dave Anderson (21:20)

No, I self published. I had one publishing deal when I was young. I wrote a novella and yeah, I'm not a fiction writer, so I got a nice advance. And then it didn't go anywhere. And I kind of soured on it at that point. And I said, I got to figure out a way to do this myself. Like, I will bootstrap everything, bro. And so with this particular book, I said, I'm going to self publish it. I think there's a lot of people who are just scared of selling because everybody has this picture in their mind right now. If I say sales, you see a used car lot, some guy with a trailer coming out with a tweed jacket with leather patches, trying to sell you a lemon of a car. And the truth of it is, like I tell people all the time, have you ever gotten your mother to give you a toy when you're out shopping and she says she's not going to buy you anything. I said, yeah, well, congratulations, you sold. Are you married? Yeah. Have you convinced your wife to procreate with you? Oh, you sold? My wife sells me all the Time on stuff. Honey, you know, this shampoo makes my hair smell so much better than this one, but this one's like 20 bucks more, baby. I like the way that one makes your hair smell. You go and get. Did she just close me? You know, so I think once you understand and demystify the negative connotation that sales has, it becomes an exchange of solving problems for money. And once you do that, it's great. Yeah.

John Gafford (22:36)

One of my biggest problems with people that are in the sales industry is they try to create these different terms that are like, no, no, no, I'm not a salesman. I'm a. I'm a luxury consultant. No, dude, you work at Gucci. Stop. Right? Just. It's okay. And I think that's the thing. So many people have just made it in their own mind to loathe what they do. Like, like, you asked me what to do. Like, dude, we sell like, like, I am an elite level salesperson. That is what I do. That's what we do. And I own that. I don't try to sugarcoat it as in my industry because we're in real estate. You know, certain people are like, we are a home lifestyle consultant. No, dude, you sell houses. That's what you do. Own it. Just be good at it. Because there's nothing wrong with it. Because the world needs salespeople. And I think that because again, if you come at it from a place where you're problem solving and you're actually getting there, there's so many people that need a good salesperson to get them where they are, where they need to go. You know, I found one of the interesting things I found about, about the car dealership was the people that let you do your thing always seem to get a better deal and we're happier. And the people that wanted to fight you tooth and nail always got their heads popped off and they always left mad. It was crazy. So, like, what do you think people can do in the sales industry to make the image of what we do better?

Dave Anderson (23:59)

First of all, don't have commission, breath, lead with sincerity. Like, talk to people. Build a rapport. Stop focusing on your numbers. Your numbers are a result of the energy you put out. It's not the thing. Hitting a quota is never going to get you where you need to be. Being honest, being relatable, and being transparent will always get you where you need to be. But if you're coming across salesy, if you're coming across corny, if you're trying to be too slick, if you are too High powered. Like, and when I say high powered, I mean, I'm not saying don't dress nice, but you know, if you're wearing the nut huggers and the two tight polo or you know, the $10,000 suit and you're selling a $500 netbook. Hold on, homie.

John Gafford (24:45)

I'm sorry. Okay, so, so that leads me to my next question based on what you just said, which is what is your genuine feeling about some of the alpha sales gurus that are out on the Internet right now?

Dave Anderson (24:58)

I think, oh yeah, no, I think they suck donkey crotch because they're selling something that most people can't pull off. And now their industry has become going into these dealerships, going into these companies, going in with these consultancies and saying, oh, all you got to do is stay in there with your nuts all the way up in your chin and, and, and then do 50 push ups and that's going to get this. No, no. And then stop telling them dumb stuff like, well, you look at my TikTok, I've got 37,963,000. Yeah, half of what you bought. The other half are there to laugh at you because you're a meme. Like, we've got to start getting back to what actually works. And the thing that will always lead you to success is going to be personable relationships where you're concentrating, how their outcome is first. You get them their outcome, your income will grow, will grow and go up, up. It's as simple as that. And these gurus are ruining everything because they're selling people a bunch of goods and they're taking a bunch of frat boys directly from the frat house off of their dag on cake stands. And then the car dealerships and in the corporations thinking that they're going to turn around and make it happen because they saw some, I don't want to use the word douche, but they saw somebody who is of ill repute in the back of a Maybach and they think that that's going to be their life in six weeks and surprise, it ain't.

John Gafford (26:21)

Yeah, I just, I look at some of it and you see it. I like, I don't. I try tend not to follow a lot of the people, but occasionally I'll be at an event or speaking somewhere and I'll walk around the corner, I'll see one of these dudes I'm talking about like, oh great, here's this person. And I just feel like the, like I hate the alpha culture, dude. Like, I'm in the gym every single day. I do my thing, but I'm not standing in front of a mirror going, like, I just. I hate that culture. I think it's so stupid. It's just. It's just dumb. And I think, you know, there's a movie. I hate to say this, but there's a movie out there. Maybe you've seen it, maybe haven't. It's. What is it? It's a Luke. Luke Wilson.

Dave Anderson (27:01)

Oh, the one where he falls asleep and then Terry Cruz becomes the president.

John Gafford (27:06)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's the smartest guy in the world. Yeah.

Dave Anderson (27:08)

Idiocracy.

John Gafford (27:09)

Idiocracy. Exactly. And I just watched that movie, and I just. I see. And I'm gonna say it's not frat boys, because the people follow. These guys don't have an education at all. And see them grunting and fired up, and I just see this, and I'm like, bro, this is the dumbing down of America in real time.

Dave Anderson (27:32)

Yeah.

John Gafford (27:33)

On Live in Color. And some of the stuff that I see that people teach is just so transparently stupid. Like, if anybody ever walked up to me and said, half of the stuff that comes out of some of these sales trainers mouths, I'd be like, bro, you got to be kidding me. For example, let's talk about this, because cold calls. You are in sales. Cold calls are a way of life.

Dave Anderson (27:53)

Yes.

John Gafford (27:53)

I want to talk about. I made a video the other day on my. On my Instagram. And it was basically, I got victimized by a cold call is what I said. I got victimized by a cold call. And I said, this dude calls me, and first thing out of his mouth is, hey, this John, blah, blah, how you doing today? And I'm like, okay, sales call. There you go. And he's like, so my CEO asked me to reach out to you. I'm like, really? Who's your CEO Know? He's like, what's up? You know, Bob Smith or whatever. I'm like, how does Bob Smith know me? And he's like, well, like, dude. And he just fumbled and fumbled, and I said. And I just eventually just let him off the hook. And it's funny, I made this video like. Like the ten commandments of sale of cold calling is if you're gonna do it. And I said, I'll start it out. Number one, never ask anybody, how you doing today? Because as soon as you say that, and they always do it in that same cadence, how you doing today? It's like, you're. I instantly know you're A salesperson. You don't know me. When is the last time you called one of your friends and said, hey, Dan, how you doing today? Never. You say, what's up, man? How you doing? Hey, what's happening? You never say, how you doing today? Nobody. I know you're a sales guy. Number two. Don't tell me. Your CEO asked me to call you. That's the new. One of the new invoke things. Oh, they asked me to call you. Unless you're ready to be called on it, because this dude was not right. It's like. And it just went on and on. And the funny thing was, the first comment that I got back on that video when I made it was some dude said, he goes, I mean, if you get victimized by getting a sales call, I mean, you're a little soft. And I'm like, okay, bro, you don't understand what I was trying to say. If Gordon Ramsay goes into a restaurant and they serve him a terrible meal, he's going to say, this chef just victimized me because he's a master. Yes. I'm very good at what I do. So if somebody does it sloppily, I'm saying, you victimize me. So what sends you? Walk me through what makes a good sales call.

Dave Anderson (29:46)

To me, a good sales call comes down to doing the research before you. Before you call. Like, you can prepare for a cold call. You know, you can do your research. Especially in this day and age, when you've got every answer to every question in your phone, you should automatically know who you're talking to, what they're into, what they like, where they're struggling. You should see opportunities on their website for improvement. There should be so many things in your arsenal that all you're doing is just picking from the buffet of, I'm about to close this bugger. And we don't do that. We just go, hey, it's Dave Anderson. How are you doing?

John Gafford (30:25)

How you doing today?

Dave Anderson (30:26)

Yeah, no, listen, man, your website, I was looking at it, and I bet you you're having some sales conversion problem. Problems? Well, yeah. How'd you know that? Because your website made me want to click off in the first five minutes. Tell me more. Like, you've got to start by taking the time to show that you cared enough not to just call them out the blue and waste their time. You're calling to save them from something they don't even realize. It's like, if you and I are walking down the road, and I've been down this road before, and I go, yo, hey, no, not right. No, come on this side, because there's a hole right there. You're not going to debate me about the hole. Obviously, I'm not going to tell you that there's a hole there when there isn't. You're going to take my advice because I saw the hole ahead of time and I'm preventing you from getting into that hole. We don't do that. It's about, I got to get these numbers. There's some dumb chick named Linda listening and, And. And running your calls, and she's playing with her hair and she's worrying about your bio breaks. So we have to get back to making sure we're researching ourselves. Secondly, we've got to make sure we're building a rapport and doing that naturally not. Hey, how you doing? Like, you know what's been going on, man? Like, what are the things that.

John Gafford (31:38)

I want to stop you. I want to back up real quick because you said know who you're calling or know about them. Right?

Dave Anderson (31:42)

Right.

John Gafford (31:43)

I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they try to sell the same way to the same people always. Right? Like, if you are in a business that you're selling tools or services to salespeople, don't sell them like you would everybody else. You just cannot do it. That's why, like, look, I think salespeople are actually the easiest people to sell to if you do it right. Like, no bullshit rapport, none of that. They know you have a forget all of a script. Forget all that stuff. If you're calling a salesperson, come out of the box with what you got, why it's going to help them, and how long it's going to take to talk about it. Hey, man, I got Product X. None of your competitors are using it. You can absolutely use it to kick their ass. Is it worth 30 seconds to hear about it?

Dave Anderson (32:29)

That's it.

John Gafford (32:30)

What do you got, Dude, I'll hear you pitch, but if you call me with the chunky. My CEO asked me to. Come on, dude. Can we just. Like, time is valuable, right? Most good salespeople, when they hear a bad pitch, they're just going to hang up on you because they're trying to save you time.

Dave Anderson (32:45)

That's it. Because you might as well move on to the next contestant because I'm not falling for that bs.

John Gafford (32:50)

Yeah. So let's go back. Pick it back up. So we're building rapport now. Pick it back up.

Dave Anderson (32:53)

Yeah, we're building rapport, and you build rapport. Not on. Oh, well, you know, the. You know, the Eagles won because, I mean, 95% of people who love football hate the Eagles right now. And that's fine. We're not going to win anything here. But we build rapport on the things.

John Gafford (33:09)

97. I'll go on the Eagle hate. I got a girl that works for me on my team that went to the Super Bowl. She is. She's still posting about it. It's crazy.

Dave Anderson (33:18)

Yeah, yeah.

John Gafford (33:18)

She deserves a race.

Dave Anderson (33:19)

Give that woman a race.

John Gafford (33:21)

She's like, here. She's like, here's your daily reminder that the Eagles won Super Bowl.

Dave Anderson (33:26)

Yeah. So it's good. No, absolutely. I do a sports show with some folks, and every time I'm on, I have a different piece of Eagles paraphernalia on just to annoy them. But no, you build rapport on what you have in common, and that's the solution to their problem. Like, yo, listen, I know it sucks right now. I know it sucks.

John Gafford (33:43)

Keep going. That's the goods.

Dave Anderson (33:45)

No, I know what you're doing sucks right now, and they don't see it. That's fine. This is me and you talking. So what I got right now is going to set you far ahead of everybody in there to the point where you'll be running that place in six months. No bs. What? What? What would you like to know first? Oh, how can I run the place in six months? Okay, cool. This takes care of this, this, that, and the third. This CRM here is better because it does bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. You know. What are you currently using? Oh, well, you know, they got us using, you know, CRM X. Oh, oh. Because it's 2003 there, huh? Yeah. And they're like, yeah, man. They don't. They're in the dark age. They all are. That's why I'm trying to drag you out kicking and screaming. I need you to be my pioneer. All right, well, what's it going to cost? It's not going to cost you anything, but when you start producing, it's going to be this. And then your managers are going to want to know, bop, bop, bop. And then at that point, you're an ally. You're not a salesperson, you know, and then from there, the deal should close itself with the ability for you to answer their questions knowledgeably. If you don't know the product that you're selling intimately, why are you on the phone? Why are you talking? You should not be selling anything. You need to go back to the training room and study. You need to be using this stuff. Why do we use. Why do we sell products we don't use or believe in?

John Gafford (34:59)

That, to me, is a. Yeah, that's the key, dude. Everybody I've ever met that has said, oh, I did sales once. I hated it. What were you selling? I was selling this. Was it a good product or bad? I was terrible. Well, that's why you hated your job, because you had to stand there and lie to people all day.

Dave Anderson (35:16)

Yeah.

John Gafford (35:17)

If you don't believe in what you're selling, bro, you're never gonna want to do it. You're never gonna be any good.

Dave Anderson (35:23)

Right. And why do you think anybody's gonna buy? Like, if you're not thrilled about it, why is anybody else going to be thrilled about it? It's this whole notion of, you know, in wrestling, they always say, if you're not here to try and be the champion one day, then why are you in the building? It's that same thing. If you don't believe in the product or service that you're selling, how do you think you're going to close anybody yet? Any dumb cluck. I can get a dancing chick to close two sales a day. That doesn't make you a good salesperson. That's just the law of averages. But if you don't believe in what you have, we. You see it. I see it like, I believe in me. You know, if. No, I can't. I can't expect people to be fans of mine if I'm not a fan of me first. You know, I can't expect people to think I prioritize my health if I'm eating junk food and not moving my body. Like, some of this is common sense, but we, we negate it because we're so, so focused on getting the sale, closing the deal. Let's go in here. Let, let, let's, you know, let's get our private jet sales guru tight shirt on and. No, no. And then finally, you let them, you let them just tell you, you know how to close them, and then you close them from there. You should be writing up the order at this point.

John Gafford (36:33)

Well, you know what's funny that you said, and we talked about earlier, I think a little bit, was we getting in a rut or getting on a roll in sales is, Is something that attitude does. Everything you said, like, you can't have commission breath. And I think that, you know, we've all had. If you're in sales, you've had times when, man just, you're just, you're just snapping everybody's just buying. Everybody is. You can't write fast enough. Everything's just going your way. And it's. I think a lot of that has to do with what you're projecting internally. And then you have times when you get in a slump, dude, and all of a sudden you're like, hey man, like my bank account's starting to, starting to go down a little bit and starting a little. Feel the heat. And then people start smelling desperation. Like I always tell people, like, if you want the best deal on a car, here's what you do. Number one, go to the dealership on the last day of the month. That's fine. Somewhere in the dealership there's gonna be a big board in there with all the salesman's names on it with a bunch of X's and lines on it. Find the dude that has the least number of X's and lines and say you want to work with him because that dude is so desperate he's gonna fall over and not fight for anything just to get a unit move to try to keep his job. So if all of that is said, if, if you get in a slump in sales, what's the best way out of that and to maintain that calm and still put out that good energy and not put out that negative energy.

Dave Anderson (37:54)

In my opinion, and this does, this is not a universal rule, but in my opinion, the best way to do that is to act as if the deal's already closed. Like, you've got to put yourself in that position. Like, you don't know this about me, but, but I used to be 561 pounds. I always saw myself at 240. Now I'm at 240. But it took a lot of work to get there. But I always acted as if I'm going to do it. What does a 240 pound man do? Well, he goes to the gym, he drinks a gallon of water, he's doing 15,000 steps a day. Like what is he doing? He's lifting heavy, he's prioritizing protein. Like what are the things you got to put yourself in that energy? What happens is we start letting the bills and home life and all of these external things get with what's happening here. Cares about that. When they're there to just get a car, they don't care what the problems you got them and baby needs a new pair of shoes. And I gots to go down to the dealership and get myself my own car because I'm not going to buy a car from Here, all of that is outside waiting on you. Your problems are waiting on you. In there, you're a problem solver. In there, you're a machine. In there, everything is right with the world. Because this is the place where the money is happening, baby. This is Vegas, and you're a high roller. You've got to take on that mindset even when it sucks, even when it's hard. Listen, you have pretended to like your boss and laugh at his corny jokes for less. You're not willing to pretend like everything is all right in your personal life in order to come up professionally. In order to switch that energy up, also move your body, you know, go get yourself a new shirt or press the one that you have. Switch out your outfits. Get something going so that you feel good about yourself. Change your hair, get a haircut. Like, external things will change you. I have one of my best friends, a guy named Ace, right? And believe it or not, he cuts my hair. I know I have locks, but trust me. But no, but the thing of it is, bro, he'll tell you, people get out of his chair, and it's like they're transformed. Their energy is different. They feel like they can take on the world, and then they'll FaceTime their woman. I do it myself. I FaceTime my wife. Like, yo, he said, oh, you look good. I'm zooming home. I'm running red lights to get to Mario so she can see how good I look. If you do things that make you feel good, that energy is palpable. The same thing happens when your energy is negative and you're listening to your boss. I'm like, well, you know, it's the end of the month. Thanks, Captain Obvious.

John Gafford (40:16)

Cool.

Dave Anderson (40:16)

No problem, Chuck. I'm on it. Watch my smoke. And I'm there early, and I'm the last one out because I gotta make this happen. And that's that. And then you go back to the, you know, what you were doing, that was working game that you can control, that you're no longer doing. You got to take stock.

John Gafford (40:33)

I love. I love that you said, feel good, play good. Pretty much what you said. Because I tell people, if you're in a slum, step number one, wear a suit every single day. Get up, put a suit on. Because to me, man, it's like. It's like that's your Superman suit. Like, there's a change in that physiology. Like, if you. If you're rolling into the office and, yeah, I'm casual today, because a little. Little nippy in Vegas today. Believe it or not really, what's nippy in Vegas high is only 58 today, so a little nippy in Vegas today. Yeah, it's cold, right?

Dave Anderson (41:01)

That's really weather.

John Gafford (41:02)

Yeah, it is, dude. It's like, it's cold outside for here for this time of year. You should be like, night. It's gonna be 97 like next week. So there you go. But anyway, but yeah, look good, feel good. And I always tell people, like, if you make that change, you put on Superman outfit, right, it's gonna change your. Your fit, your physicality will change your physiology, which will change your outcome. Two, I'm a real big believer on visual visualization of things that you want to manifest. And right now I think if for me, like, for all of the stuff we use ChatGPT through, we use it all day long for a million different things in our company. But for me, like, one of the most valuable that I never really heard they talk about is chat. GPT is now, especially with the new upgrade, makes incredible imagery. Like incredible imagery. So, dude, you can, like when you write out your goals and you're writing that vision statement about what you're going to have. Absolutely tell it what you want. Like, like describe what you're after and it will create an image of that that is so vivid. It's like a picture and it's there. Like, if you go to my gym right now, my gym, my house, I got stuck on the wall. I have a copy of my book in the, in the, in the. The airport bookstore says bestseller. And part of my deal is they have to distribute part of the deal I signed that they have to distribute it in the bookstores. It's mall and HUDs. So, yeah, that's gonna happen. And I put that up over a year ago, like that that happened. I had one that said I'm in a. I had an old partner that kind of did me dirty north of seven figures. And I had one of us. I had one of a seven settlement statement where it said this deal was settled. It just got settled like three weeks ago. That happened. Not all of them come to fruition. But, dude, if you just look at that imagery and you just absolutely feel it as though that it's happened and, you know, I. I don't know, dude, say what you want. The. The Jim Carrey checking his wallet for $8 million. The stuff on my mirror, it works. And if nothing else, it puts you in a good headspace to get where you want to be. And you just. I think I find so many people when that bar ball starts rolling, negative man, they just keep rolling with it. Yeah, yeah.

Dave Anderson (43:03)

And they're looking for other people to, you know, co sign their bs and it's like, no, get up. Okay, you. You lost. You want to stay down, you'll be a little punk about it. You gonna cry or are you going to make it happen? Are you going to rise above your circumstances? This is temporary. You know, life is going to throw you curveballs. Things are going to get bad. Are you going to stay there? Are you going to realize, like, this is just a turn in the story? Like, I'm a huge comic book fan. I love comic book movies. You know, Thanos snapped half of the Avengers along with half of the people in the universe. You know, but then it got undone.

John Gafford (43:42)

Is that an accomplishment for Thanos? Like, you didn't get them all, but you got half. Like. Like, what are we really? It depends on your perspective.

Dave Anderson (43:48)

But Thanos was a conservationist. People don't understand this. He was like, y'all are having too many kids. The amoeba's army being way too much. Then you realize if you get rid of half of that, you know, it's people out here with blue skies and full bellies now. You know there are whales in the Hudson River. Can. Captain America said, you know, maybe Thanos had a point. It all comes to your perspective. And. And even the directors and the writers of that movie, the first one, will tell you Thanos was the hero of that movie.

John Gafford (44:16)

He.

Dave Anderson (44:16)

It was his hero's journey. He had a mission. He saw it very clearly. Everybody told him it was crazy. He sacrificed his daughter. Spoiler if you haven't seen a movie from seven years ago. But that's the thing. You've got to get yourself in the mindset that this is what it's going to be regardless. And everybody who is in your world are the children of John. In my case, rejoice. You are now the children of Dave. You should be happy that I'm closing you today.

John Gafford (44:44)

Hang on, though. That brings up an interesting point, though, because I think a big part of your success is who you choose to surround yourself with. I think if you surround yourself with a bunch of people that are holding you back in any facet of life.

Dave Anderson (44:55)

Yeah.

John Gafford (44:57)

So obviously you probably feel the same way. How do you let those people go? How do you make that decision to cull the herd to Thanos out the universe, your own personal universe? How do you make that call that's going to your next book? Is it?

Dave Anderson (45:08)

Yeah.

John Gafford (45:09)

That phrase right there.

Dave Anderson (45:09)

Is going, no, but that's a good one. I want to do that. Calling the universe. Mark it down. Thank you, John. For me, it's as simple as this. There's a scene in Heat where Daenerys says, I don't get attached to anything, that I can't leave in 15 minutes, walk out.

John Gafford (45:22)

Walk out on two. In 15 seconds, there's 15 seconds.

Dave Anderson (45:25)

That's what it is. So for me, I'm of the mind that there's only two places to be. You're either with me or you're in my way. And if you're not with me 100%, I don't need you. You know what I mean? Like, I'm at a point where I have to preserve me. This is what I told my oldest daughter when she was a teenager. I said. Because she's like, you don't care about my feelings. I said, dori, of course I care about your feelings. I love you. You're my child. I said, let me ask you something. If you have a bad day and your feelings, which are valid, are just horrible, and you're having a bad mental health space, what changes about your lifestyle from a financial standpoint? Nothing. If I have a bad day, what changes about your lifestyle from a financial standpoint? Oh, Daddy, we're effed. And she didn't say aft. I said, that's it. So I need you to get on board this train. I don't care if you agree, but where I'm going, I'm gonna need you to go ahead and get in this caboose and start shoveling some cold. Like, this is where we're going.

John Gafford (46:24)

You.

Dave Anderson (46:25)

You gotta have that. Because what happens is you're. You're gonna find yourself in a place where you're sleeping with the enemy or the people around you can't see your vision. I mean, that's biblical. It happened with Joseph. It happened with Moses. It happened with Jesus. There's always people who don't see the vision that God gave you, and they're looking at you like you're crazy. They said, Noah was a drunk. He built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic. Everybody around you has to understand that. Listen, even if I don't agree, I'm gonna let that person rock because they're doing something that I don't think is possible. But if I get out of their way long enough, they might do it. But, yeah, if you're around me with that negativity, if you walk in a room and all of a sudden film starts developing, you gotta go, it's real easy for me to chop you off.

John Gafford (47:08)

Well, I think that that brings up two things. Number one for me is a real quick way to get cut out of my circle is anybody that tries to be the main character in my movie. Like, I'm sorry, this is my movie. And if you're trying to take over, be the main character of my film, I'm gonna replace you. You're gonna, you're gonna hit the cutting room floor. And then two. One of the saddest probably things that I, I've seen as far as a meme or a quote or whatever you want to call them, that they are, that I kind of took as a personal challenge was which, which was said, it said, when your father dies, you've officially lost the only man that ever wants you to, Ever wants to see you do better than they are or they did. And I was like, and I was like, man, that's terrible. Because it, you know, it's probably sort of true. But dude, it, I root like crazy for all my friends to do well. And I got a lot of friends. I have a lot of friends that do exponentially. But I mean better than I do. And I root like crazy for them and I, I'm so happy for them. I make it a point to cheer when my friends win. And I think that's something that is, I think the hustle mentality a little bit the hustle culture that's come up in the last five to seven years has created so much competition, which, don't get me wrong, competition is great. I, I love Pete. I love competition. I love all of that stuff. But at the same time, you gotta also be rooting for, for your people on your team.

Dave Anderson (48:28)

Yeah, no, it's the most important thing to be a cheerleader when it's time to be a cheerleader because everybody has their time. You know, you look at Dennis Rodman, Dennis Rodman is not in a conversation as to who's the greatest between Jordan and LeBron. But Dennis Rodman led the league in rebounds. By the way, Michael Jordan never won a championship that did not involve Scottie Pippen. Everybody has a role to play, so why am I going to get mad? You don't ever hear Superman hating on Aquaman. And I mean, he could. Talking to the fish is not exactly the sexiest superpower. But everybody has their lane, everybody has their purpose. And it's lonely at the top because everybody thinks everything is a competition and it's not. The best thing you can do is collaborate with like minded people and So I want the best for everybody because if that's the case, then we're all winning. My grandfather who had a sixth grade education said, dave, a candle never lost anything by lighting another one. That's how I live my life.

John Gafford (49:28)

I'm going to challenge what you said a little bit though. You said collaborate with like minded people. I like to collaborate with people that think differently from me as much as I can because I, I think the echo chambers that everybody likes to crawl in where everybody agrees with everybody. I mean, I would say like I have a, I have a great business partner in our businesses here and we do not always agree on everything.

Dave Anderson (49:48)

Right.

John Gafford (49:48)

Because we've always said, bro, if we always agree one of us shouldn't be here, we.

Dave Anderson (49:53)

No, when I say like minded, I mean you and I might, yeah, you and I. Yeah, you and I might say, okay, I want to climb this mountain. And I'm like, yo, Jetpack, you're like ropes and cleavers and sticks and guides. I'm like, jetpack, we're both trying to go to the top of the mountain. We don't agree on how to get there, but the goal is the same. Our methodologies can be completely different. But if we have that goal that we're going to get there one way or the other, and if one of us is falling off the side of the mountain, we're going to lift the other one up, then we're going to win. I don't want you to agree with me. The majority of my team does not agree with half the things I say and they shouldn't. I, I think the yes culture is a completely different animal. But I think if we have a common goal and we know 15 ways to get there, then guess what? One of them is going to work.

John Gafford (50:42)

Yep. Amen. Amen. Well, if you had to leave them with one more thing. The best piece of advice in sales. What's your best piece of advice?

Dave Anderson (50:53)

Don't leave yourself out of your selling process. Everybody can sell. Anybody can sell anything. But the way that you get to be elite level is by dialing up who you actually are. Because who you actually are is going to do two things. The first thing it's going to do naturally is what the Google say. You want to attract as many people as possible. Sure, absolutely. But you also want to repel the people that just don't speak your language. Send them over to Bob. Bob's on the bottom rung. He's not a high energy type of person. He's not going to shoot you straight he's not going to BS about certain things, but repel the people who aren't for you. That way it's a clear path to the people who are. And the other thing I want to say is when you are doubling down on who you are, you get really clear about your good and your bad. And instead of trying to fix your bed, you specialize in fixing the things that are phenomenal about you and tweaking those all the way up. Because you're not going to change. Your synopsis have been fried since you were five years old. Who you are is who you are. You can make adjustments, but the best parts of you, those are the things that are going to be the secret sauce that's going to make you an A list seller. So don't shy away from that and stop looking at sales like the world looks at sales. Look at sales for what it actually is. There's not a product or service on this planet that is not sold, even the free stuff. So once you get that, you'll be golden man. And I tell people all the time, if you want to look at the best salesman who has ever lived, you can pick up my book, sell it like Jesus. Principles and Strategies of the World's Greatest Salesman. Because that's the thing. You can't argue. The merch numbers are. Are legendary. The book, it's still selling to this day. And $33 million a week in tithes and offerings ain't nothing to shake a stick at.

John Gafford (52:48)

It's funny. That's what I always say to make people feel better. I'm like, well, damn it, Jesus didn't get them all. These pet sales went out there. He got a lot of them all. You didn't get them all. You got a lot of them.

Dave Anderson (52:58)

My sheep will hear my voice. That's what he said.

John Gafford (53:01)

All right, well, if they want to find you and plug in with you more, how can they do that?

Dave Anderson (53:04)

Oh, it's real easy. My website is thebusinessbully.com with without paid ads. I'll show you exactly how to sell without having to spend a whole bunch of money on ads. And you can follow me on all social media at the Business Bully. I'm always here to help and chop it up.

John Gafford (53:19)

Go Eagles. Well, thanks for joining us, man. All right, well, leave it away from that today, man. Hopefully if you are in sales, not in. Everybody's in sales, right? Everybody's in sales. But I would say the major theme of today, and I want you to walk away from this, is this. This sales is not about products. Yes, you have to believe in the product, but at the end of the day, it's about a real connection between people. And that is something thank God that AI will never be able to replace. See you next week. What's up everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it in anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift. Com. You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.