From Bank Robber to Sales Success: Luke Lunkenheimer's Journey of Redemption and Resilience

Summary

Escaping the Drift with John Gafford: Episode Summary

Title: From Bank Robber to Sales Success: Luke Lunkenheimer's Journey of Redemption and Resilience
Release Date: February 18, 2025
Host: John Gafford
Guest: Luke Lunkenheimer

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1. Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Escaping the Drift," host John Gafford welcomes Luke Lunkenheimer, a renowned sales expert with a remarkable story of redemption. John sets the stage by highlighting Luke's expertise in sales and hinting at the extraordinary challenges Luke has overcome to achieve his current success.

John Gafford [00:00]: "You are somebody that is in sales at all, you're going to want to listen to this because this guy is one of the best out there at not just selling stuff, but teaching you how to do it."

2. Luke's Early Life and Entry into Sales

Luke shares his humble beginnings in Cato, New York, a small town where everyone knows each other. He discusses his upbringing, emphasizing the minimalistic and scarcity-driven environment shaped by his parents.

Luke Lunkenheimer [02:11]: "I had a decent upbringing. Mom and dad were very, very small town mind, very simplistic, very minimalistic, scarcity kind of people."

Luke's initial foray into sales begins at his family's Ford dealership, where his natural aptitude for selling becomes evident almost immediately. Despite his youth and inexperience, he quickly rises through the ranks, outperforming seasoned salesmen.

Luke Lunkenheimer [09:53]: "My closing ratio was better than the top guys."

3. Battle with Addiction

Despite his professional success, Luke's personal life is marred by addiction. He details his descent into pain pill dependency following a shoulder injury, which was the cornerstone of his athletic ambitions in football. The ease of access to prescription drugs led to a decade-long struggle with addiction.

Luke Lunkenheimer [26:19]: "There was addiction that ran rampant in my family. Dad was an alcoholic, mom was a speed freak, their parents were addicts."

Luke candidly describes how pain medications initially alleviated both physical and emotional pain, masking his insecurities and fueling his sales prowess. This dependency eventually escalated to heroin use, further entangling him in destructive behaviors.

Luke Lunkenheimer [31:30]: "And the addiction itself was a decade, brother. It was 10 years."

4. Turning Point: Bank Robbery and Prison

Luke's addiction spirals out of control, leading him to desperate measures. Faced with financial instability and mounting legal issues, he devises a plan to rob a bank. Surprisingly, the robbery unfolds without violence, earning him only a year behind bars despite initial expectations of a longer sentence.

Luke Lunkenheimer [44:16]: "I literally did everything as good as you could possibly do it. Likely by accident. It was about."

During his incarceration, Luke undergoes a transformative period in a boot camp-style facility, which assists in his path to recovery. This experience marks the beginning of his determination to overcome addiction and rebuild his life.

Luke Lunkenheimer [51:02]: "And that's what it took, man."

5. Recovery and Building a Successful Sales Empire

Upon release, Luke attempts to reintegrate into the sales industry but faces setbacks due to his criminal record. Undeterred, he partners with fellow ex-offender to establish CNY Drives, a successful used car dealership specializing in subprime credit markets. His authentic approach and refined sales techniques quickly drive the business to profitability.

Luke Lunkenheimer [59:29]: "That became CNY Drives, which is now a three car auto dealer group in central New York that does primarily used cars and subprime credit."

6. Sales Training Philosophy and Techniques

Luke elaborates on his innovative sales training methodologies, which emphasize authenticity, confidence, and a customer-centric approach. He introduces his "Compassionate Interrogation" process and the "Big Three Framework," which focus on understanding customer needs deeply rather than relying on scripted pitches.

Luke Lunkenheimer [63:04]: "I taught them a process that I call compassionate interrogation... It's all about the customer."

He stresses the importance of genuine conversations over mechanical word tracks, advocating for salespeople to build real connections and instill confidence in their interactions.

Luke Lunkenheimer [74:06]: "It's about using Your knowledge of what is about to be to stop it from happening before it happens."

7. Conclusion

The episode concludes with Luke offering his sales expertise nationwide through his platform, "Paid to Persuade." He underscores the significance of authentic engagement and confidence in transforming sales practices.

Luke Lunkenheimer [79:07]: "If you want to learn how to sell with more confidence. Look at my man Luke. He will sort you out."

John and Luke wrap up the conversation by reinforcing the episode's themes of resilience, authenticity, and the transformative power of effective sales techniques. They invite listeners to explore Luke's resources and continue their journey toward escaping the drift and achieving personal and professional excellence.

John Gafford [81:04]: "So if you want to learn how to sell with more confidence, look at my man Luke. He will sort you out. Pleasure having you, bro."

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Key Takeaways:

• Redemption and Resilience: Luke's journey from addiction and crime to successful entrepreneurship serves as a powerful testament to personal transformation.

• Authentic Sales Practices: Emphasizing genuine interactions over scripted approaches can significantly enhance sales effectiveness.

• Customer-Centric Approach: Understanding and addressing customer needs deeply fosters trust and drives sales success.

Notable Quotes:

• Luke Lunkenheimer [02:11]: "I had a decent upbringing. Mom and dad were very, very small town mind, very simplistic, very minimalistic, scarcity kind of people."

• Luke Lunkenheimer [31:30]: "And the addiction itself was a decade, brother. It was 10 years."

• Luke Lunkenheimer [63:04]: "I taught them a process that I call compassionate interrogation... It's all about the customer."

• Luke Lunkenheimer [74:06]: "It's about using Your knowledge of what is about to be to stop it from happening before it happens."

• Luke Lunkenheimer [79:07]: "If you want to learn how to sell with more confidence. Look at my man Luke. He will sort you out."

This episode not only narrates Luke Lunkenheimer's tumultuous path to success but also imparts valuable sales insights applicable across various industries. Listeners are encouraged to draw inspiration from Luke's resilience and apply his proven sales strategies to their own endeavors.

Transcript

[A]

So here's my favorite car story.

[B]

Business.

[A]

And this is a little terrible. All right, I'm going to preface this by saying this story is terrible, but.

[B]

It must be told.

[A]

But it must be told. And it might get me canceled. I hope it won't get me canceled, but it's a terrible story. And now, escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, Escape the Drift, and it's time to start right now. Welcome back to the program, everybody. As it's set in the opening, man, the podcast, it gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today in studio, I got a dude. I mean, this is. This is a dude when it comes to selling stuff. Dude, if you are somebody that is in sales at all, you're going to want to listen to this because this guy is one of the best out there at not just selling stuff, but teaching you how to do it. And he's also got a cool story of overcoming some serious adversity that I think that if you hear this, you're going to be like, whoa. Because I was kind of like, whoa when I just heard it, so. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program in studio today. This is Luke Lunkenheimer.

[B]

Luke, what's up, brother?

[A]

Look at that, Lunckenheimer. I nailed it.

[B]

Nailed it.

[A]

Nailed that thing. I was a little stressed out about it. Not gonna lie.

[B]

I mess it up sometimes.

[A]

I know I was a little stressed out about it. So, bro, thanks for coming in, man.

[B]

It's good to see you.

[A]

I know these Vegas podcast tours can get a little arduous. And what conversation are you on right now with me? How many of you had in the last 48 hours?

[B]

Oh, goodness. Not as many as last tour, but enough to make me run out of breath.

[A]

Yeah, it's a lot, dude. There's. There's too many of us in Vegas now. But see, here's the thing, though. If I was in, like, Des Moines, Iowa. Yeah.

[B]

Coming to deport, Iowa. That's very true.

[A]

You're not doing. It's an easy sell when it's like, come here, go to the Bellagio, go to STK for dinner. It's an easy sell. It is easy sell to get you in. So, man, you're just not born a great salesman. So I always like to start with, like, the nature versus nurture.

[B]

Part of this.

[A]

So tell me about how you grew up talking about mom and dad. Tell me, like, how you became an entrepreneur. Tell me. Tell me about little Luke and how you became either. Either the. The super villain story or the superhero story.

[B]

Well, there's a little bit of both, man. So I, you know, I. I had a decent upbringing. You know, mom and dad. Very, very small town mind, very simplistic, very minimalistic, scarcity kind of people. Cato, New York. So, yeah, if you were to go to Syracuse and watch an SU football game, you would go about 20 minutes north and another 10 minutes west and you'd hit Cato.

[A]

That is. That is bats blue country, brother.

[B]

For context, there are 82 people in my graduating class. So it's one of those towns where everybody knows everybody in a good way, and everybody knows everybody in that not so good way, too. So very difficult to get away with anything in Cato, New York. So just. Man, I grew up at a pretty good upbringing. Just, it wasn't, you know, you come to a place like Vegas and you meet people, and this guy's dad is a multimillionaire real estate broker, and this guy's dad invented some app. And this guy's dead, and he's young.

[A]

My kid.

[B]

Right, You. These. These kids are growing up and they're affluent and they. They have, you know, access to a lot. In Cato, New York, you have access to maybe a car when you're 16, if you're lucky, and your dad's one of the wealthier people in town. My father made $75,000 a year. We lived in a 68, 000 house, and we were one of the. The better off people in Cato.

[A]

So what did dad do?

[B]

Dad was a used car. Well, excuse me. Not a used car dealer. He worked for a new Ford franchise for a company called Piro Brothers, which kind of followed in the footsteps of my grandfather, who had Lunkenheimer Ford in Hannibal, New York, which is another one Horse town goes like, this man was a good honor roll student, was a good athlete. Good. When I say good, I stress the word good. Wasn't really exemplary at anything until I got kind of into high school. And you know how you get your senior superlatives? Most likely to succeed, most likely to stay in town.

[A]

Yeah, I got a bone to pick with that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, dude, literally. I just told this another podcast, but I. I was randomly. Somebody posted. You know, sometimes you get on those holes on the Internet.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Somebody randomly posted, like, my ninth grade yearbook, but in digital format where you could go back and see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was where I would. I was also from a small town where I went to school. Like, ninth grade wasn't in high school. It was in junior high.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So, like, if you were the ninth graders, we were the kings of junior high.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Getting ready to go to high school. Because, like, high school in my town was 10, 11, 12.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so when they had the superlatives of my ninth grade yearbook, I got most accident prone. And I'm thinking. And I. And. And so then, no, this. This is the holy coid. And I look at the dude that they said most likely to succeed, and I'm like, let's see where this dude's at. Let's just say I looked him up and, yeah, there needs to be a freaking recount. Junior high school, Lake City, Florida. Yeah, I need a recount on that, because I think the kid here is doing it better. Just saying. Anyway, so go ahead.

[B]

You weren't watching his podcast.

[A]

No, he's watching his podcast. No, I'm not. Anyway, back to your superlative.

[B]

Yeah, brother. So best schmoozer. Because they couldn't use the words best. I don't know, artist. Okay, good.

[A]

I don't hate it.

[B]

Just minding the rules of the pot. Yeah. So basically, best bsr, it was me and this other girl, Paris Brown, who was also very good at getting herself out of trouble. Let's put it this way. I got into an altercation with the captain of the wrestling team, put his head through a trophy case. It wasn't pretty. And I ended up getting sent home for the day to play Nintendo and come back to school.

[A]

So my question is, does the coach of the wrestling team come in the next day? Like, hey, buddy, might. Might want to join the team? I mean, if you take out the captain, I mean, I mean, his job is to get the best kid in the seat.

[B]

This is true. This is true. But, you know, at the. At the height I was at the height to weight ratio, I probably would have gotten whoop because I was a tall, skinny guy at that time. No resemblance to what I look like now. So my story goes, I knew that in order to get out of that town, my parents didn't have the money to put me through college. They didn't have the credit to cosign to get me through college. I was stuck working at the local mill or selling used cars or something. So I decided to focus my energy on something, and that was football. I loved football. I was the kid in the front Yard tackling weighted garbage cans to try to toughen myself up. And I just, you know, ran and did everything that you could imagine. The, the sequence in an action movie where the young kids coming up through the ranks would do to where they're.

[A]

Playing like the Karate Kid music and.

[B]

He'S running the sunset and all this stuff. Yeah, so. So I did that. And at seventh grade I made the modified football team which was kind of unheard of. It was eighth grade and up. When I was in eighth grade I made the. Excuse me, ninth grade I made the varsity team, which was also unheard of. So I was good, I was good. I was above average and I was very fast and I could jump very high. We discovered in my senior year that I could throw the ball very well. So I became a quarterback. I got some looks from nothing crazy couple Division 2 schools, but enough to get my schooling paid for.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Division 2 schools can't give an athletic scholarship. The fact that I was a scholar athlete and I was a good athlete, it was a good pairing. Very quickly when I got injured, got my shoulder dislocated in the game, which was my throwing shoulder, very quickly learned that the politics of Division 2 athletics. You can very easily get an athletic esque academic scholarship, but you can just as easily lose that even though it's an academic scholarship. Really, when you blow your shoulder apart.

[A]

Oh really.

[B]

It's a tough phone call to their athletic director. Like, how can you take away my scholarship? Well, you know, geez, it's a, it's a combination. It's a constellation of things. And so imagine you're this young kid who had his meal ticket, right? And you were going to get out and you like the school and you're ready to go. And now all of a sudden it's just the rug's been pulled off.

[A]

This was in high school years.

[B]

In high school. Yeah. This was how I was going to get to college.

[A]

So they rescinded your offers?

[B]

Essentially, yes. Yeah, they sent a second letter which was a revised offer based on, yeah.

[A]

You can come to school here, but.

[B]

You got to pay for it 100%. And it was like my, my scholarship went for. It was like a $31,000 a year school. I had a 29. 5 scholarship. I had to come up with like 1500 bucks and it went to like a $6,000 scholarship. So directly out of reach. So at know I'm. It's kind of like, you know, breaks and screeching halts and the record coming off the. Or the pin coming off the record sound effects just like this holy moment. So, you know, I had to. I had to come up with a plan. The plan was I was going to go sell cars because that's what my family was known for, my family was good at. My father had experienced success doing that. So I. I did the proverbial take a year off and figure it out. Went into the car business and just really started doing well, started killing it, selling cars.

[A]

So, let's see. So I. I appreciate the car business so much because when I left, when I used to be in the bar and restaurant business.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Many years ago, and when I got the news from my. Essentially my doctor and my bleeding ulcers at 27, based on my lifestyle, he said, yeah, you're going to need a life change. So he told me. So I was like, oh. So I called one of my buddies.

[B]

Meaning the debauchery of the activities.

[A]

No, the bar business.

[B]

Excuse me, the bar.

[A]

He was like, you know what? You know, tell me about your diet. I'm like, makers marking cigarettes. And he's like, how many hours a week you work? And I'm like, 100. How many you got? You know, because somebody's always stealing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And, you know, he said, you need a life change. And I called my buddy at WorldCom, who was a vice president. I said, everybody has always said, I should be in sales. Give me a job in sales. And he goes, man, I can't give you a job off the streets, you know, selling telecom. I can't. You got to go get some experience, okay? I said, what should I do? And he goes, you got two choices. I said, what's that? He goes. He goes, so, Kirby Vacuum Cleaners, or you can go sell cars. He goes, either way, in 90 days, you have a PhD in sales, okay? I was like, there's no way.

[B]

I would agree with that logic.

[A]

Yeah. I was. I was like, there's just no way. There was one more. It might have been copiers, Maybe IBM or copiers or something. I don't know what it was, but. But there was just no way I was gonna go sell Kirby Vacuum Cleaners door to door, man. I was like, all right, I'll go sell cars. So that's where I also learned how to cut my teeth doing that, which was funny. And we'll tell some stories about that, bro.

[B]

It's. It's a crash course.

[A]

So. So your. So your experience with cars, this is going to be good stories. So tell me about that first week. Obviously, you grew up on it, so you've been around the dealership because dad was there. So you. You had a little bit of foresight here. Right?

[B]

So not only did I have foresight, I also had confidence. You know, I went into the dealership. Now, mind you, I was young. I was naive. I was. Had blinders on. I hadn't experienced the world. So I'm like, I'm a Lunkenheimer, you know, Lunkenheimer for. John Lunkenheimer is the general manager.

[A]

I'm genetically predisposed to success in this animal.

[B]

I'm a robot. I just go in here and turn the switch on, and here we go. So I got to be honest with you, and not to sound braggadocious, but that's exactly how it went. I mean, I walked in there, and what I noticed immediately was the nature of a car dealership. There's one or two horses, guys that are just doing the job, working the program, doing what they know they need to do, following, sticking to the script and selling a lot of cars. Then there's the mix of the mediocrity, which are the people that are, you know, blowing lines in the bathroom, going out to liquid lunch. You know, this is central New York, so this is a thing.

[A]

I'm pretty sure that's everywhere.

[B]

Pretty sure, too. That's why. That's what led me to my aforementioned question. But then I forgot you said you're in the bar business, so. And then there's like, the four or five guys that are just sitting around smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee, doing nothing and getting no results. Go figure. So I was the tenacious young whippersnapper that came in. It was taking all the ups. And then I started catching hell for taking all the ups. But then the manager started paying attention, and my closing ratio was better than the top guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they're telling these horses that have been around for 10 years, like, guys, you can't bet you the kid, he's closing everything he touches. So, you know, unless you see him do something in egregious violation of our policy, you got competition. Merry Christmas.

[A]

I'll say that was my first experience in my working order, because I don't. I come from, you know, corporate restaurant businesses, business into kind of my own stuff and doing my own deals and running my own stuff. So it was always very amicable. You know, everything was always about like, you know, when you're doing schedules for staff, it was just like, oh, make sure everybody gets even. You know, everybody's happy. You try to accommodate as many of the requests you can. When you're handling your staff. That was the first place I ever worked where it was like, yeah, dude, we don't care. We really don't care. Like, there's no such thing. You want fair? It's down there. They sell cotton candy and there's a Ferris wheel. This ain't here. This is. Go get it. And you're right. You're 100% right. Because in my situation, there was a couple of dudes like this one dude, Pharaohs. He was. He was of.

[B]

I love watching car guys tell car stories. You watch your eyes lift, you get into it, your temperature rises. These are the real stories.

[A]

Because this dude, like this dude Feros was the best dude. Right. And how he did it was really smart. And this is. This is a great lesson for business. Right. So this cat had the office right by the receptionist. So he would listen to her answer the phone.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And he would walk into his office when she would go, sales call, 100, whatever. So he was grabbing. He got every single phone up because.

[B]

He could do it.

[A]

So I just started watching him. And when he. When. When I. When I saw him look at her and then he turned to go in his office, I started beating him fast and figure. Because I figured how to time it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I out timed him on picking it up, and he didn't like that. That was bad. So when I went in, that was the first place a. That didn't care. But I'll tell you my fav. Favorite car story business, and we'll get back to you because I don't want to monopolize. So here's my favorite car story business, and this is a little terrible. All right, I'm going to preface this by saying this story is terrible, but.

[B]

It must be told.

[A]

But it must be told. And it might get me canceled. I hope it won't get me canceled, but it's a terrible story. So the used car manager at this place where I work, now, granted, I only worked there for about 90 days in my first month. I sold 30 new cars. First month. That's like bowling.

[B]

A perfect game for the audience listening. That is bowling. First month, yeah.

[A]

They moved me immediately from Nissan to Highline to infinity.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Sold 24 my second month.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Third month, about the same. And then I quit. I quit. The owner of the dealership called and was like, I lied for why I was quitting because I was going to start another company with my sister.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I just did it for the experience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, oh, my roommates moved out. So I'm going to. I'm going to move back to Florida. This is Atlanta. So I'm back to Florida. And he's like, I'll be your roommate. Like, what are you talking about? He goes, how many rooms do you have? I'm like, I got four. He goes, I'll pay four fifths of your rent. All the bills. You'll never see me, I'll never come over. I'll never be there, but I'll pay all your bills. And I'm like, huh? And he was like, yeah, don't leave. And I'm like, oh, I'm good at this. This doesn't want to be. As a salesman, I was like, I'm actually going to open another company with somebody else. Not. Anyway, long story, but this story I'm going to tell that it's going to get me canceled. So where this place was in Atlanta was in Decatur, which has a heavy Indian population, okay? Now, I don't say this as a matter of race. I say it as a matter of culture.

[B]

Culture.

[A]

The culture within the Indian community. What I have personally experienced and heard and seen. I feel like ruthless negotiators. They're not happy until literally they're yelling.

[B]

At each other, right?

[A]

That's. That's when they're happy, is they're yelling.

[B]

At each other 100%.

[A]

And anyway, I had never negotiated against people of that culture, okay? And because where we were, it happened all the time. So one day, right, like my first or second week. Now, the used car manager here was a dude named James Myrick, and he's. He was ghetto. Don King is the only thing I can say had the gold tooth, had the chains, had the. I mean, had the rings. I mean, you take a car up there to be like, oh, no, this car's been hit more times than Joe Lewis. No matter what you took up there to get a phrase.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, this thing's a piece of joke. I don't even sco. Make it back down the hill. Everything has a mouth. Anyway, so one day, some. Some Indians came in and they were on the ad car. On the ad car, which doesn't exist. Sorry, I don't make the rules. I didn't do this. It's just I work there. So they grab another car and then they start grinding that we want the same price. We just want. No, we want the same price. And I'm like, bro, bro, bro. And this was on a Saturday, which is like in the car business when you make your money. And this went on all day right.

[B]

Across your Saturday, it went on, like.

[A]

Two and a half hours. I missed lunch. I missed this. I see people just cars flying out the door, and I'm just. These people wouldn't leave. I'm like, guys, seriously, we're not. Nope. We're not leaving. We're not leaving till we get. They would not get out of my office until finally I'm like. I'm like, I'm just not coming back. Until finally they backed down and they finally left.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

After like, three hours. And I'm just fuming that this went this long. Lost the whole Saturday. Whatever. Here comes James Meyer again, because he kind of saw what happened. He goes, that that's your first group of hard negotiators. I said, yeah, it's my first group. He goes, okay, come on, man. Do we. You get lunch? I said, no, I miss lunch. He goes, come with me. I said, no, I don't want to eat anything. He goes, just come with me anyway. I'm gonna teach you something. I said, all right. So we walk across the street. There was a blimpy sub shop there. And we walk in, and he's talking to me. He's like, you sure you don't want anything? I said, no, I don't want anything. He goes, give me a foot long turkey. And the little guy is making it. And because, again, we're in Decatur, so a heavy Indian population there. This particular location was also owned by Indian business people. He's like, you know, tell them about the car business. And, man, well, you can't. You can't let people do that. You can't. Oh, yeah, put some more tomatoes on that. No, do this baba. Put some onions on that. Okay, no, no, you got to do this, but okay. No, can I get some extra oil? Gets to the end. The guy rings it up and goes, that'll be $6.50. And he looks at him and goes, oh, no, I can get that same sub for $2 down the street. He goes, I'll give you $2, drive out for it. Guy's like, what? He goes, I'll give you two dollars for that sub. Drive out. No tax. That's all I'm paying. And the guy, he got so furious and threw us out of the blimpy. And we walk out of the blimpy, and he looks at me and goes, you feel better? I was like, no. I don't know how that was supposed to be a lesson for me, but, yeah, that was welcome.

[B]

I think his thing was to get one back at the other team, but.

[A]

That Was welcome to the car business for me. That's hilarious. That was it. But enough about me, dude, we didn't come in here to hear me talk.

[B]

Listen, man, people watch podcasts for entertainment. That's a good story. There's a. You know, at any car dealership experience where you worked at it, there's always going to be stories like that. I've got a hundred like that. I could tell.

[A]

Just what's the craziest thing you ever happened to you at a car dealership?

[B]

Craziest thing that ever happened to me at a car dealership. Well, I had. I was on a test drive with a stripper and we got talking about stripper and all respect to my wife Nikki, I love her to death and she's the reason I'm here today. So we'll preface this story with that for the haters out there. But this was 20 years ago.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And it was a little French blue Ford Focus. And she gets in the car and we're driving and she's like, do you mind if I go take it to my house and make sure it fits in the driveway? I'm like, yeah, sure. So we go to her house and she's like, okay, well I'm gonna go in real quick and grab something to eat. Do you want to come in? And I'm like, I gotta get back. I am so naive, brother. I'm not thinking anything at this, sticking the sale. I'm just thinking I need to be happy. Well, you know what I'm worried about? I can't prove her income. How am I gonna get her approved? She's got, you know, cash tips, she's got. That's where my head was at. Right. So let's just say that I ingress the establishment. This little double wide trailer on Byron Road in New York. And we're not editing that out either.

[A]

Because look, I mean now we've gone full stereotype. Now the stripper lives in a double wide on the wrong side of the tracks.

[B]

Oh, we're there, bro.

[A]

We're there.

[B]

Yeah, so I.

[A]

So this is like, this is not your Friday night stripper. This is like day shift.

[B]

Well, didn't know anything about. Yeah, yeah, this is, there's a, there's a, there's a club in Fulton, New York called the Woosa Lounge. And a common joke if you see a dastardly, unattractive, overweight, non becoming woman is to say something like, oh, she probably works at the Woosa. So that gives you any indication. Although I will say this for this Young lady, she was put together. She's a good looking girl. She was Latina. She, she was eight out of 10. You know, she was certainly overqualified for the WOOSA. So I go in there and she's like, okay, classic line, brother. I'm going to just put on something a little more comfortable. Okay. Walks away. I'm sitting on the couch. She had grabbed me a Gatorade or something. And there's a pit bull sitting next to me. And this dog is just. Eyes are trained on me, kind of almost like someone's been here before. And he's seen this movie play out before. And he's watching me like, how are you going to handle this?

[A]

Strippers and pit bulls, bro.

[B]

It's just like, you don't get a.

[A]

Poodle, you got a pit bull.

[B]

No, right? And five inch clear high heels too. That's the thing. So she comes back out and she's in a white lace negligee and there's a conveniently a bed in the living room. Just a mattress and a box spring on the floor. Yeah, this is that side of town. And dude, I just. She just posed herself on the couch and asked me if I would like to join. And we'll leave the remainder of that story to another day. But as a young guy in the car business coming back, I'm going to clarify.

[A]

This is before he met his wife. I'm assuming that.

[B]

Yeah, that's why I put it.

[A]

That wasn't real clear.

[B]

No, that's 20 years ago.

[A]

Okay, yeah, that part wasn't real clear.

[B]

Yeah, I had a good story to come back to at the dealership. And you know what the best part about it was? It was one of the first experiences I had with telling something that you know is the absolute truth. But nobody believes it. Everybody says you're full of shit, but you still feel okay about it. And you don't care if they do or don't believe you because you just know that it's grounded in truth. Not a single soul in that dealership believed that that transpired the way it did. But. But it didn't. That's tattooed and scarred my soul forever.

[A]

See, I think my favorite part of the story is what you didn't tell us when you got to walk back into your cubicle, go, I'm sorry you don't qualify for the.

[B]

I'm laughing so hard because it's so true. No. Okay, so you had to tell her she didn't qualify. I'm glad you plugged that back in because I You're absolutely right. So I'm sitting in the cubicle and, you know, we're, you know, fit as a fiddle at this point, talking to the conversation. And I go back and Doug Kress, the business manager, who's a legend in the local car business, he goes, skywalker. You know, that's what they called me. I'm like, yeah. He's like, you ain't got a prayer, bro. She's like a 489, hasn't paid anybody. She's behind on her Capital One card right now, and I can't prove any of her income. And I said, bro, she told me she's like a 700 credit score. He said, yeah, I probably. She probably told you she was clean, too.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So, anyways, I have to come back out. And then I came. You know, it came to fruition that I realized that the escapade that I just went through, she had done to ensure that the automobile was going to be hers. Right. So it was not a kind.

[A]

That was. That was trying to earn extra credit.

[B]

Yes, if you will.

[A]

That was extra.

[B]

Any credit. She just wanted credit. So, you know, that was. I was 18 and a half years old, something like that. And that was one of the earlier wild stories of the car business. But I think it probably provides the most entertainment value.

[A]

No, I. I love it. So you're back.

[B]

Actually had a guy drive the car through the front of the dealership, too. You know, people say, I'm going to come back here and I'm going to drive my car through the front of the dealership. Somebody actually did it. Yep. Now, the funny part was it was on accident. So he came in, gave the pitch, the speech, you know, I'm gonna drive my car to the front of the dealership, went to leave, did one of these things, put his arm around the armrest, turned around, looked back out the car, and then drove it to the front of the dealership. Yep.

[A]

So were you guys just sitting, like, watching the carts?

[B]

Honestly, brother, we didn't move. We all just kind of. It happened. It came in, it pushed the. The wall in. It was like one of those lower, like, metal with the upper glass and just kind of bent everything in. And the guy looked up, looked at both of us or three of us, put his car back in park and. Or reversed and drove out of there.

[A]

Immediately thought about his life choices and was like, maybe this wasn't the best. Best move. I'm going to go ahead and leave.

[B]

Yeah. And I think probably somewhere on the way home, he had a Little bit of validation about the fact that he actually did what he threatened he was going to do, But I don't think he was happy about it.

[A]

Oh, geez. All right. Okay. So you're in the car. So you're in the car business. 18. Things are going well.

[B]

Yeah, man, doing well.

[A]

How long before you're the top guy?

[B]

So within a week or two, there was one guy that was. His name's Roy Heath. Hope he hears this. Pay him the appropriate homage, but he's a real good car. So he's in the. He's in the business as a salesman to this day. Has his own podium in the corner. Doesn't even work out of office. Just a runner. And we kind of went back and forth for the top spot. And, you know, that segues kind of into where. I later found out that I had a love for sales. Was a thing that happened between me and Roy. But it got very dark very quickly, you know, just. Just to kind of move the story along, I. The dynamic at this dealership, like I told you, was a big group of guys that were just. They called it liquid lunch. They would go and they would drink at lunch. They would come back, half of them be wiping their nose. They'd go out every night. And I kind of slipped into that dynamic, and it. It. It was augmented by the fact that I wanted to go back and play football. The. The car business, for me was a means to an end. I knew I could do it. I wanted to go in. I wanted to make a few bucks. I wanted to get my surgery. I wanted to go back to playing football because I wanted to go to college. I wanted that experience, and I wanted a degree. To this day, I'm glad everything worked out the way it did. But, you know, at that point in my life, that was the.

[A]

But, dude, I. I get it, though, man, because it really does. There's something about a car floor, right? Like I said, I only did it for a short amount of time, but I found myself even as is, even though I was leaving. You really feel like you're kind of part of a gang when you're. When you're in. If they're running the dealership right, I think that's how the salespeople kind of feel.

[B]

Do you think that's sales in general, or do you. With teams, or do you think that's a car thing?

[A]

No, no, no, no. Because I think it's. I think. I think it depends on the long sale or the short sale. Right?

[B]

And I agree with that.

[A]

And car Sales is a short sale to me because people are walking a lot. They buy a car and it's like, it's quick. It's not a slow moving process. I those slow moving in, in the sl, in the, in the fast sale.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The quick sale. When you have that killer be killed, eat which kill, you know, there is no fair. You have that mentality or die. Yeah. It almost becomes like a rite of passage to earn your spot in the tribe. It's a very tribal thing.

[B]

It is.

[A]

And I think with long sales, not so much just because, you know, a lot can happen. I mean I've got a really good team that works for me here that handles. I don't, I don't unless it's, unless it's a really large transaction. I don't do personal real estate anymore. I still do it for my clients when in their large transactions. But you know, most of the, most of the other stuff goes to my team. So I have, you know, we have a total of about 585 agents that work here for me overall at Simply Vegas. But I've got 10 of them that work directly for me on the team. Right. And I would say that, yeah, you know, I've got to constantly be working to create that tribal team environment for them. Whereas I think, I don't think the dealership did anything other than create the situation just occurs. So I think it depends on its long sale or short sale.

[B]

I think I would tend to agree with that. I think I would tend to agree with that. I also, you know, with a longer sale there tends to be more self contained apparatus, meaning more research, more time spent in the cubicle, more time spent prospecting. I think there's a lot of ancillary activities that pull away from that kind of tribalism. And I also feel like, you know, on a slow, short day, day at a car dealership, it's a slow, short, crappy day for everybody. Whereas in a long sale I think there's more room for people to have varying, you know, weeks or months or who's experiencing what at what time. So I agree wholeheartedly with what you said.

[A]

So, so you joined the train even though it was a, it was a means turn ends. You know, the reason that you fell into that hole is because you became part of the tribe.

[B]

Yeah, that. And there was, you know, there was addiction that ran rampant in my family. You know, dad was an alcoholic, mom was a speed freak, their parents were addicts. It was just, it was something that, you know, I should have been educated about. When I was a kid. Now that's one thing that, you know, bone that I have to pick with the school system is they educate. You know, the DARE guy comes in and I don't know if you guys have that out here, but they have drug abuse resistance education in New York. You know, they tell you what pot looks like and smells like. They tell you what cocaine looks like and smells like. They tell you what a drug dealer.

[A]

Oh, I don't think they, I don't think they tell you what it smells like.

[B]

What's that? The cocaine. But I do remember them showing us what marijuana smelled like and have the drug sniffing dog in there. They put it in a locker and the dog found it and stuff. But what they don't do is they don't educate you about addiction. You know, certain traits that you may have or behaviors that you may exude that should show you that you have a propensity towards addiction. So you can take the appropriate safe.

[A]

I think, you know, I think now with kids it's, it's incredibly apparent what that is. Yeah, man, it's this right here. Yes, it's this. I mean, if you're, if you're like. And that scares the out of me with my kids.

[B]

You mean as far as the kids being addicted to the device. Yes.

[A]

You can look at them like, like dud, dude. Every, like you look at these kids now and they're all so head down in these phones. Just fast as they can go from.

[B]

Here'S neck conditions that are coming to light now that kids have because they're constantly like this. Their shoulders are hunched over and their heads down. It's, it's sad. You know, smartphones are kind of a double edged sword because the access to information and resources that kids have now and the things that they can accomplish and do at a young age. Like my kid the other day, I mean, he, he's editing a video in cap cut and putting this little montage together. I'm like, dude, that's badass. How'd you figure out how to do that? Oh, I went on YouTube, I watched a tutorial and then he figured it out all on his own. And then hindsight makes you go, well, when I was a kid, if I had access to these tools, what could I have done differently with my life? But it's a double edged sword because it's like I watch my son and there's days where I'm like, bro, you gotta get away from that thing. Right? And we limit their time and we've created, you know times and schedules that they can do it and so on and so forth. But it's very easy to see how a kid could just, especially a kid with a rough upbringing, could get lost in that and then take it a step further. And you talk about VR, excuse me, virtual reality and AI and the oculus glasses and these meta environments where these kids can literally become white skinned, blue vein, skinny, ribsy, malnourished bots that are just living in this virtual reality world. So it is crazy. But just on the addiction thing, man, if I had been educated about addiction and understood what to look for and knew that because it ran rampant in my family, that there was a high likelihood that I was going to go down that path, obviously some different choices. But I just remember, man, I'll never forget, I was at work and I had had, you know, I had a shoulder surgery, I got a good insurance policy. I was very excited. I was on a waiting list for the surgery with a really good doctor. Doctor told me, when we're done with you, Luke, 95% of what you had, you're going to have back. And I could throw a football. I mean, I, I can't cite for you the yardage now. It's been a long time, but it was almost as far as I recall. Donovan McNabb threw the football in the Carrier Dome at the combine. So just to give you an understanding, I have one hell of a cannon for a skin country kick kid. And that was about it. I was fast and I could jump high, but there was nothing to me. So I was going to make a great division to quarterback. They had me convinced of that and that's where my mind stayed. So I got the surgery done. And after the surgery, man, it was pain pills. You know, it was a pain pump and pain pills. And I remember, you know, today if you get a significant injury, you're hard pressed to have a doctor write a prescription for five to ten pills for follow up pain therapy. We're talking in 2000, 2005, I believe it was, brother. They gave me two separate prescriptions. One was for five milligrams of Oxycontin. Okay. Which is a smaller dose. But they gave me 160 pills for the month. And then they gave me a bottle of 10 milligram hydrocodone, which is, I think that, yeah, Loratab. It's like the strongest dose you can get of that with a small Tylenol equivalent. And it was like 120, 160 of those. I literally had four or five of each of those to take a day, bro. There are stage three cancer patients that don't have that kind of pain therapy, you know, So I recall one day, I just. You know, what it did for me, you know, if I'm being honest, is it really numbed the emotional pain of, you know, rough childhood? It numbed the fact that I was no longer on this trajectory to be this great athlete. It numbed the fact that if you had a bad day in sales, it's okay, we'll go get drunk. You wake up the next morning, the hangover goes away in 30 minutes when you take a couple Lora Tabs. Like, it was just. It was just a miracle drug for me, man. And it was too good to be true, you know? And when I took the drug, I would be just this incredibly talkative, confident salesperson. You know, there wasn't that social awkwardness or anxiety when you're talking to a customer. It was just. It was incredible. And I remember at one point, I had. I heard something in a book somewhere about addicts have a romance with their drug. And I thought to myself, I had. It was like an epiphany moment. I'm like, wow, that's. I thought about it. I sneak away from the family gatherings and I spend time with drugs. You know, I hide in the corner and I do my drugs, and I have my little drugs that I keep a secret from everybody else. The day of reckoning for me, when I realized there was an issue, I was walking through the wall long. Did this go on, this epiphany that I had was six months in. But the addiction itself was a decade, brother. It was 10 years. And it ended with one hell of an exclamation.

[A]

Was it. Was it always pills, or did you graduate to the artist?

[B]

So I graduated to heroin at one point, but it was only because I couldn't get.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Truth be told, man, the entire. The whole way through, I thought street drugs were disgusting.

[A]

Oh, dude.

[B]

I knew they were made in a nasty redneck lab in some double wide somewhere in some, you know, hood apartment with needles laying. I just knew that, and I didn't want any part of it. But when you get so ruthlessly addicted to a substance that if you don't have it, you can't be physically. Well, yeah, right. So I'm walking through the wash bay, and Benny Green, this big. He. They called him Big Montana. Just this big, you know, burly country boy. And I'm like, dude, I feel like absolute dog. And he's like, oh, you're not feeling well. I'm like, yeah. He's like, well, just pop a couple of your hydros, man. You'll feel great. I'm like, no, dude, that's. That's the thing, man. I can't even do that. I don't have any. He's like, what? I said, I ran out, like two days ago. He's like, and you're sick? I go, yeah. He's like, and you think that's a coincidence? I said, what are you talking about? He goes, bro, you're dope sick. I said, bro, I don't do dope. There's no way you can be dope sick if you don't do dope. He goes, man, what do you think Oxycontin and hydroquote, all that stuff is? That's how naive I was, man. So that's what I mean when I'm just shoving these narcotics into my body in copious amounts because I feel good having no idea that the repercussions that laid on the other side of it now, now, truth be told, if I'd have known that, would I have acted any differently? Probably not. When I experienced that high, I probably would have gone the same way. But I just remember in that moment, it was like this darkness fell over me, and I was like, I'm addicted to drugs. Because in my head, I went, I can't get off these. I don't want to get off these. I sell too well. I do too well. And at that time, it was incredibly inexpensive. We had a plug. We'd get them for a dollar a pill. You know, you sell one good car a week and your drug habits taken care of. And I was certainly selling plenty of cars. So. So that moment for me was like, okay, I have a problem. And then every day from then for the next 10 years was keep the problem hidden away from people, continue to try to act like nothing's wrong, and maintain my life. And, bro, I bought a house. I got a good credit score. I bought a new Mustang. I bought a crotch rock. You're high functioning, Very high, high functioning to the point where I was doing more, far more than anybody else my age and even people that were five, ten years my senior. But I still had this crazy habit. And the people around me that were close to me knew what was going on. And everybody would just tell me, you know, this. This is a means to an end. You're going to crash. This cannot sustain. It's going to be more and more and more. And of course, me being the arrogant, best Schmoozer in the yearbook. I'm like, dude, I'll figure out a way. So it graduated from doctor giving me pills, me taking some pills, selling some pills to me taking all the pills to me taking some pills, buying more pills, selling the pills for a profit to cover my pills, to. Eventually I got tied in with a guy that was a wholesale distributor for a kidney drugs warehouse for the VA and talk him into expiring pills early to give me the overages to wholesale them and peace and bed there. At one point, bro, I was moving through thousands of pills on a monthly basis.

[A]

Good lord.

[B]

Having no idea that when you put 80, 120, 160 milligrams of oxycontin in your body at one time, you're just putting your tolerance level to a fact that when finally the drug is absent and the system is vacant, you're done. You are toast, bro.

[A]

Dude, I had a. An assistant years ago. I won't mention her name, but we have a rule. If you work for me, me, nobody gets paid till I get paid, right? Like, I mean, obviously payroll is fine, but like, bonuses on deals that I do and things that we do and bonuses come in.

[B]

If that's a piece of the action, the piece has got to be there.

[A]

I got to get my piece before each piece. And this particular. This is years and years ago. And this particular assistant one time, and my wife was doing the payroll at one point, and she mentioned. She said, oh, I did this payroll. Some. This person asked me to do their payroll early. And I was like, what? And this is a person making great money for me. And I was like, I do her payroll early. What are you talking about? She goes, yeah, she asked me to do it. So I was like, something's wrong. So me being me, I. I feel responsible for all. All my people. So I'm like, we live in Vegas. I'm like, she's gambling. Yeah, she's gambling because she was beast. Like, like, like hammer down job performance great. She's gambling, rambling. I'm like, I gotta talk to her about this. So she comes in my office the next day, and I go, hey, gotta talk to you about this advance you need. Like, you just got like, X amount of dollars last week. There's no way I know your lifestyle. There's no way you should need this. What's going on? Do you have a problem? And she goes, yeah, I got a problem. I said, okay, is this a problem you've had for a while? She goes, yeah, it's been going on For a while. And I said, have you had it before? And she goes, I said, have you gotten help for this before? And she goes, yeah, I have. And I said, where did you get help? Like, who? Like, did you go to meeting? What help? I'm still thinking about gambling, right? She goes, this place. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, okay, well, I'm gonna call them and see what we need. She goes, well, they're gonna want me to impatient. I'm like, impatient. She goes, yeah. She goes, yeah. And I said. I said, okay, what should I tell them when you. When I. I'm gonna call them. What should I tell them? She goes, tell them I relapse. And I said, okay. And she goes, tell them I'm going to need a detox. And I was like, detox? I go, I'm still thinking we're talking about gambling, right? I'm like, what do you have in your system? She goes, heroin. I was like, what? Yeah, what in the what? Like. And then I just.

[B]

Mine starts going, what have I been missing for the past months?

[A]

And now I'm like. And then as soon as after the meeting, I'm like, googling it. And they're like. I'm like, yeah, she does look a little gray.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, yeah, her eyes are a little pinned or whatever.

[B]

This is a little.

[A]

I'm like, yeah, this is a little. Yeah, dude. Dude, this is not good. So anyway, I end up sending rehab. I made her pay me back for it because I said, if you don't pay for it, you're not gonna appreciate it, right? Thanks, dad, for lessons like that, but yeah, dude, so I get it, man. And same thing with her, dude. She had gotten hurt and started on oxy and whatever else and then couldn't get it and then moved on to.

[B]

The hard stuff, dude, that's how it starts, man. And what happens? Terrifying. It's very terrifying. I'll tell you a quick story, and this is just so the audience can understand the danger of this type of thing. So the guy that I was telling you about, the wholesaler that I was able to get the co. Copious amounts of pills from, I met his. I used to wake weekly stops at his house. And the way we met is somebody plugged me to him and I walked by him one day, dropped a business card, winked at him that had my number on it, you know, and caught the connection. And we're meeting on a weekly basis, and he's opening this sentry. Those sentry fire safes, the deep. He opens it up and I'm looking at this thing and it's like, it's like when, when, you know, the guy gets to the end of the search and they open up the box and everything glows gold in his face, right? Exactly. And I'm like, holy it, it's the Mecca. So I'm like, all right, well, what he like a dollar a pill? Whatever you want, as many as you want. And brother, for people that have acumen in this area, we're talking methadone, Oxycontin, Suboxone, Buprenorphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl. I mean, it was the entire pharmacy in as much volume as you wanted. It was heaven for a drug addict. So I'm like, well, how much for the whole thing? And he goes, I'm not giving you the whole thing. I said, why? He goes, because I know you take these things and you'll die. So there's no way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So long story short short, we're doing our thing. Then it kind of became a friendship. As a lot of times things will happen in business and obviously it's a weird business to be in, but I'd stop by, we'd get high, we'd smoke a joint, eat some pills, play some PlayStation, whatever. And I became very good friends with him and his three year old, two year old daughter who would walk around while we're doing drugs, and his wife who's sniffing coke off the counter while the kids there. You know, at this point in my life, man, you're not, you're not realizing what's going on. You're not going, oh my God, we're doing narcotics and there's a kids here or there's a kid here. You're like, I'm here with my friends. It was just the culture of what you did, you know, It's a very messed up point that you can get to in your life. So I'm sitting there and he pulls out this little zipper bag. Like it looks like a little, you know, barber's tool kit or something like that. And he opens it up and I look and he's like, dude, you want to get real high? And I'm like, yeah, sure. What do you got in there? I'm thinking he's got a big pill or something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he opens it and there's a spoon, there's a syringe, there's a rubber band and, you know, just a whole.

[A]

The whole kit for heroin. I've seen the movies.

[B]

Yeah, they call it a rig. And I'm like.

[A]

He's like, that's it, Rig. Not kidding.

[B]

He's like, I love movies, apparently. Well, that's a good thing. You don't know what that is.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

So I'm like, what do you. What are you doing? Are you crushing up a pill and shooting? He's like, no, bro. And he pulls out these two little wax bags. They got this cute little cartoon stamp on him. I said, is that heroin? And he goes, yeah. And I remember John, in that moment, just thinking I felt so dirty being next to this person.

[A]

That's my thing.

[B]

I'm like, you inject this into your veins like you disgusting excuse for a man. He looks at me and goes, bro. Okay. He goes, you go into 7 11, and you crush up pills on the back of a urinal that other people have splashed piss all over, and you snort them directly up your nose, which goes through your mucous membrane into your bloodstream. And I'm like, damn, you're a good salesman. But I watched the ritual. I watched him tie himself off, fix up the rig, shoot him. I mean, bro, it was the most disgusting but also eerily erotic thing that I'd ever seen. Just the romance that this guy had with this ritual, and just the look of glory that was on his face, knowing what was about to transpire. And I'll never forget, he pulled back, and I saw blood under the plunger, and he pushed. And the next thing I know, he tips forward, wax his head on the air conditioner, and boom, he's down on the ground. And I said, elena, he just passed out. He whacked his head. She goes, oh, no, no, he's fine. He's fine. I'm like, okay, you want to give me some context here? That didn't look good. She goes, he's on the nod. And I'm like, what's that? She goes, well, when you're on heroin, you nod. You kind of nod out, and you come back. And she's like, trust me. He's enjoying himself. And I'm thinking to myself, what is possibly enjoyable about this? When I would do pills, I'd get the talkies. I would, you know, get. I'd go play basketball. I'd go to the casino, gamble, play poker. It was like a super drug for me. But this guy's laying on the floor, so I start to feel a little responsible. The little girl's running around. Daddy's on the floor. I'm not feeling right about.

[A]

This isn't good.

[B]

It's a dirty needle laying there.

[A]

This went Appalachia real quick.

[B]

This is what movies are made out of, is what I'm thinking. I'm like, okay. So I prop them up on the couch, and I. I can't. He's like a limp stuffed animal. Every time I prop him up, he flops over, probably. And I'm like, this is not okay. And as I'm looking at him, you know, skin is getting whiter, veins are turning blue, colors leaving the face. Lips are turning purple. And I'm. I said, elena. He goes, yeah. I said, is he dead? He's dying right now. And she's like, no, he's not. And then I licked my finger and I put it right up to his nose. There was nothing. Put my hand on his chest. Nothing. Felt his pulse. Faintest pulse. So for whatever reason, man, I just responded. I said, call 91 1. And she goes, I'm not calling 91 1. I said, your kid's father's dying right here. And she goes, he's not. He's gonna be fine. So I picked up the phone. I called 91 1. I told the opera, I said, we have a drug overdose. We need something dispatched immediately. She'll give you the directions. And I handed her the phone, and she was pissed, bro. And I remember thinking to myself in that moment, like, I need to stop this, because if somebody's upset that I'm calling the ambulance to save her dying husband, and this is not okay. So I just kind of surveyed the situation, and I realized unless air got into his lungs because he was experiencing respiratory depression, that's what happens when you do opiates. And he was going to die. So I took a deep breath, and for the first time ever, I started giving a grown man mouth to mouth notice.

[A]

He said, the first time, not the last time.

[B]

It was the last time.

[A]

Okay, well, I'm still alive.

[B]

But I'll never forget, bro, The. The. The atrocious smell of his breath that would. It just. In that moment, you go, what the am I doing? Like, what does this come to? So I gave the guy cpr. I gave him chest compressions. I gave him air for probably three or four minutes. The first responder shows up, and I'll never forget, he cracked the door open. He comes in. I knew the guy. He was a mechanic that was a volunteer. He's like, what are you doing here? You doing here, bro? Right? And I'm just. Just like, oh, just. He goes, keep doing what you're doing. I said, that's your job. He goes, man, if you're doing it and it's Working. Just keep doing what you're doing. The. The medics will be here soon. So the ambulance showed up, and they're all nonchalant about it. And the one guy looks at the other guy goes, what do you think? One or two? Ah, probably two. Narcan. Rise and shine. Off to the hospital. Doctor told me that he'd be dead without me. He gave me a hug, cried when he hugged me, held me for a minute while he cried all over me. Thank you so much for saving my life. My poor little baby. Da, da, da, da. Wife told me later, two, three years later, I saw her at a rehab, and he was going, how's Josh doing? Oh, no, he was still alive, but he just. She left him because after I left, on their way home from the hospital, he asked her to stop at the dope spot so he could fix up because he was still sick from the Narcan. So that just gives you some context on how evil the addiction can be and what it can cause you to do. Yeah, and you would think, man, that. That moment I'd have been done with it and walked away from it. And I tried, but the addiction was so physical, man, it just. This.

[A]

What finally got you out of it?

[B]

Bank robbery is the easy answer.

[A]

All right, so walk me through the bank robbery plan. Let's see, this is. Okay, here we go.

[B]

So this is now probably seven years later. Okay. And the seven years was sales jobs, doing well, always a leader, but just burning every bridge. You know, coming into the place like a whirlwind, selling everything, becoming the number one guy. Month one, month two, month three, then month four, slip a little, month five, slip a little more, month six, get fired, move on to the next place. I was like a parasite site. And burning every bridge is long. You know, along the way, I got to the point where I had exhausted every option. I lost my driver's license. I got in a DWAI accident, lost my driver's license, so now my meal ticket was gone.

[A]

You can't even sell cars.

[B]

Yep. So I started doing door to door and did very well at that. But I was able to manipulate the people into giving me cash for a discount. So I was just walking up to doors, selling them on a subscription, taking the cash, going and getting high, moving on to the next place. Hopefully they never called the number right, so. So one day, it's kind of like a snowball, is building momentum behind you. When you've done all these nefarious things and you know that it's going to break at some point, and there were warrants for my arrest from not showing up to court. There were women that were not happy with me. There were. It just. You're waking up in the morning with your heart blasting through your chest with anxiety because, number one, you know, you need drugs to calm down and get, you know, get right. Number two, any sound of anything striking, anything that could resemble a door knock puts your heart into your throat because you're afraid it's the police coming for you. You, you're just in this constant state of panic at all times. And unless you're not just high, but really high and probably drunk, you can't shake it. So it just becomes this cyclical wake up, steal, get drugs, get high, get drunk, go to sleep, wake up, do it again. And that's how people get. And I was there. So I had my girlfriend's car and I dropped her off at work, and I was getting ready to go to the pawn shop and pawn her TV to get drugs, to be able to go out and steal more that day. And I had enough off with it. And, you know, I, I say, when I tell this story, I say that at that time, I didn't know it, but subconsciously, I, I was giving up. I was giving in. I wanted to get.

[A]

You want to get caught?

[B]

Yes, sir, I did. And, you know, this wasn't a master.

[A]

Plan with, like, in a basement with, like, the plans.

[B]

No, this was, hey, Google, how do you rob a bank? So I actually did some research. Oceans 1 Ocean 5.5. So I, I, I found out real quickly on the Internet that there were certain things you could do to try to ensure some more success. I also found Pete PDF security protocols online for the bank I was looking to rob and discovered that if I didn't pose a threat of violence, that they're not calling the cops or anything until you leave. And if you demand the currency, they have to give it. They're not supposed to be confrontational in any way. So I went and I went home. I got a sweatshirt and a matching tracksuit. Basically, I went to the gas station, I got a pair of sunglasses and a bandana, pulled the car. You know, there was some instrumental, you know, process to it. I put the car a few blocks down, I walked through the woods. I wasn't seen on the cctv, and I walked into the bank, man. And I, to this day. Good afternoon, ladies. I think it's pretty obvious from my attire what's going on right now. Two of you, please place the currency on the desk. Today's take no banded money, no tracers, no die packs. Like they had those things at a credit union. I thought it was Daniel Ocean at the time. And I said, get it out and I'll get out of your hair. And then the panic struck because they didn't do anything. They just sat there and looked at. At me. And I kind of looked around and this footage is on the Internet.

[A]

You're like, maybe I shouldn't have been so cordial.

[B]

I'm like, maybe I should have brought a gun. Or maybe I should have never walked in in the first place.

[A]

You did no weapon, brother.

[B]

I didn't have a post it note. Like, I had nothing. I walked in with a plastic grocery bag. So, you know, and in hindsight, there were so many things that could have gone terribly wrong, but it went exactly as you could have hoped it would. They didn't do anything. And I looked at them and I kind of looked around and I went, went, move. And then he started moving. They took the money out, they fanned it out. Just as I asked. I put the currency in a plastic Wegmans grocery bag. I took it from the second lady. I wrapped it up, I put it in my sweatshirt, turned around, tripped over the little velvet rope that divides the aisles, which otherwise it would have been very smooth looking on camera. But that's the only flaw in the video if you go look it up, because it still exists out there.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

And I, you know, I egressed the bank and went out into the woods and ran to the car, got in the car, and what I had done was I had put in dress clothes, kind of like what I'm wearing now underneath the sweater, sweatsuit. So when I got to the car, I took off the sweatsuit, stuffed that stuff in the trunk, and I was just a simple businessman in a polo leaving the parking lot. And I got away with it for just shy of a full week. It was about five and a half, six days later that, you know, I was on the way home from the laundromat. Everybody asked that question, and it's such a pain in the ass to admit, but it was no fault of mine, okay? I did everything as good as you could possibly do it. Likely by accident. It was the landlord of the home that we were renting. When I came home to switch into the robbery outfit, she was there. Excuse me. And I didn't know she was there because her dogs weren't barking and her car wasn't in the driveway, but her car was in the shop that day, and her dogs were Getting primped and cut. So everything that would have indicated she was home was gone. I thought it was just me. So I walked out of the house and into the vehicle with the whole get up on. And that day, she was like, well, that's kind of weird. And not until the police released all the footage. She goes, holy, that's the guy living upstairs. Yeah, and I will give it to her. She held it down for a couple days, but then finally her. Her boyfriend, who was a retired sheriff, was like, something's wrong here. You're not like, what's. What's up? And she's like, I think the guy living upstairs robbed the bank. They put two and two together. And, you know, they watched the film and saw the car and her car, and they put it together.

[A]

All right, so they arrest you.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You get like, did you call your parents?

[B]

You know what's the most bittersweet thing was call your parents. I did not call my parents. Okay. I went to the DMV that morning and paid with the robbery money to get my license back. So I had my license, I had my tickets, a ride. I could go sell cars again. Stopped at the Laundry Mount on the way home.

[A]

How much did you get from the bank?

[B]

Ten grand. Nothing crazy, but it's more than you should get from a teller.

[A]

More than you should get.

[B]

Yeah. All right, so get locked up. I don't call my parents. I call my girlfriend. And she knew, you know, she knew I'd been acting funny, and she knew that I was, you know, ruthlessly addicted to drugs. And I'll never forget, they came to visit me and her father, who I loved to death. He's the nicest guy in the world. World. He comes in the visit room. He sits down. He's just looking at me like this. It's like a deer in the headlights. And I'm like, what's up, Ryan? He goes, did you do it? Tell me you didn't do it. Tell me you didn't do it, man. Tell me you didn't do it. I said, I've never lied to you, and I'm not going to start today.

[A]

Did it.

[B]

I did it. And he goes, dude, you got balls of steel. He goes, that's awesome.

[A]

No.

[B]

No, it's.

[A]

No, it's not awesome.

[B]

Then his daughter, my girlfriend, waxes like, goes, dad, shut up. And then he just looks. He was the most immature, nicest teddy bear in the world. And I remember that moment being like, well, I'm glad I did you proud, big guy. But, yeah, so Man, I went away to prison. I did some time upstate. I went through a shot camp. I got home only spent in that bid I had other times I was in jail, but in that bit, I only spent a year behind bars. Came home and that was what it took, man.

[A]

So because it wasn't armed robbery.

[B]

Correct. They originally tried to hit me with seven to 14 years for that. But there was just, it was just robbery. None of the witnesses, and nobody would test it was cordial robbery. They're like, he was nice. We felt saf. He said we'd go home, there's no problem. Like, it was about as nice as you could be. But it was, it was the culmination of a decade of drug addiction getting to a point where I needed release, I needed out. I could not do it myself. You got clean, obviously, and clean as a whistle. I mean, when I was in jail, it was just withdrawals and just vomiting and defecating on your side. Just too colorful to admit, you know, to speak about on this show. But just imagine how. Pour some salt on it. And that's what it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But when I got out, man, especially, and then there was kind of a blessing in disguise. I got put into a shot camp, which most inmates would tell you is hell on earth. It's a paramilitary boot camp and it's meant to get time off your sentence. But if you're been in there long enough and they just need somewhere to put you because they're overpopulated, they'll send low security inmates, which I was, because I was non violent, they'll send you to the shot camp. So I got sent to a shot camp to serve out my last six months. You, you know, basically you go from sitting in a prison to training. How you know, training exactly. 5:00 in the morning, running all that stuff. But I'm glad I did. It was kind of like the last little stretch of cleaning my body out, getting good blood, pumping fresh air into my lungs, and I went home, man. And, and it was all history after that.

[A]

Yeah, you. So you got back into sales, obviously.

[B]

Yeah, I got home, I was, I didn't want to. I, I, I had told myself that the evil was sales. Sales was the evil that got me into this mess and I was never going to do it again. And what I later learned was sales had nothing.

[A]

You could have been doing anything.

[B]

And exactly, it was the behaviors that I associated with it. So I went to work for a body shop, got fired from there because he found out I was a bank robber.

[A]

So What? Tell me how that is, man. So you think I'm back on the straight and narrow? I'm starting my life over here? I am. And you get a job. And then the dude walks in and goes, hey, man, your background came.

[B]

What makes it even worse, John, is I went and I asked him, I said, pull out my employee file, because he's handing me my last check. And there's tears in his eyes. Because the best part was I had started working for him as a claims adjuster doing collision work and parlayed that into. I heard some of the other people, like, selling detail packages and paint protection film. And I just started upselling all the body shop customers. I was putting an additional 8 to $10,000 in the till every week. And he's like, dude, who the hell is this guy? He offered me a store. He had another location north of there that was kind of struggling. So you're five weeks out of a prison bid for bank robbery, and a guy's telling you, I want to promote you to run one of my entire operations.

[A]

Now he's telling you that.

[B]

And then all of a sudden it's, hey, come in here. Yeah, here, your walking papers. And I'm like, sam, what the hell.

[A]

Do you think your life was? You think you were just some screwed.

[B]

In that moment when that happened? You know, honestly, no. Because I didn't like the job and I didn't like the guy. And something in me has always known that I can survive. I can. I'll move on to the next thing. I'll figure it out. I've always been that guy. But it was very devastating that I had some cadence and some rhythm going in a job to go to money in my pocket. And all of a sudden, it was all pulled off underneath me because I was trying to get my license back. That was, you know, I was back in that gamut again of needing my license. And I remember he pulls up, my employee goes, what do you want this for? I said, turn to the last page. Where? Last page. So see where it says, have you ever been convicted of a crime? What's that say? Felony bank robbery. I said, yeah. He goes, well, I didn't see it. Neither did such and such. And it is what it is. I'm like, so I'm being punished for being honest to you and the fact that you didn't do your diligence. He didn't care. What it was was people were coming in, recognizing me and saying, oh, you employ the bank robber. And his ego couldn't take that.

[A]

Did You. So did you have to get away from the hometown before, before things took off or.

[B]

No, what ended up happening is another individual who I knew, who.

[A]

A small town could be hard, very.

[B]

Difficult in Syracuse, even though it's a bigger city. It's, you know, this we're not talking about in Cato, at the suburbs. Yeah. And there was an individual that I knew who I knew was an addict, who I knew was kind of a nefarious actor, but he had written me one of two people. The other, my girlfriend wrote me while I was in prison, sent me some money, like, was trying to keep the tie, which I later learned was because he had an agenda. And he had started a used car dealership and he was failing miserably. And he knew that that was my area of expertise. So he reaches out to me, goes, hey, I heard you got fired from Sam's. Why don't you partner with me in this car thing? I'm like, dude, I don't have any money to partner. I'm broke. He goes, I'll put up all the money.

[A]

Your experience.

[B]

Yeah. He goes, just basically, you take my checkbook, you take the cars, you take the trailer, you do everything, and we'll split it down the middle. So I chose to do that. Within about 11 months, I'd made us 360 grand, which in central New York was a decent living. Living, yeah. You know, we had to split it, obviously, but I just, I was clicking now. I was back selling. I was doing it honestly.

[A]

So what do you, what do you think he saw on you that made him, made him believe in you in that way?

[B]

We worked together, so he just, he saw me in action.

[A]

He just knew.

[B]

Yes. And he saw that at, you know, for him. He came in his company, bought out my company that I worked for. And he came in and saw that there was a 21 year old guy sitting in the general manager seat. He's like, what the hell are you doing here? I'm the general manager. He goes, well, that ain't gonna last. After a couple weeks, he's like, you're. You're pretty good at this, man. And then we made a lot of money together. And then he would start, you know, there'd be a few deals that he couldn't close. And I'd say, I'm going to come in and to this deal, you ain't to own my deal. If I can't get it, you can't get it. Until one day I said, you don't have a choice. I'm your boss. I've never thrown my weight like this before, but I'm doing it now because that's a deal. I went out there, I closed the deal. We came back in. I looked at him and I was just messing with my crumpled up to four square and bounced it off his head. And I said, yeah, I suck, don't I? He jumped across the desk. We tussled and wrestled for about five minutes until somebody called the owner and. Or the. The general. The. The. I guess, I don't know, general manager. It was the. The best friend of the owner's wife. And it was a weird dynamic, but she came in and read us both the riot act. But he. During that time, he had seen what I was capable of. He saw me appraise trades. He saw me buy inventory. So he knew I knew what I was doing. And he also knew I was in a bad spot. And I probably wasn't going to scrutinize the fact that he had a Winnebago trailer on a gravel parking lot in a swiggle. New York. So. And he knew I needed the money, so I did it. And we did very well for a while. And then it ended ugly. Ugly. He told his boss off and decided to come back to work at the place. And the whole premise of the agreement was, you and I can't work together. We're volatile. Just let me run the thing. Collect your paycheck once a week and call it a day. Well, his ego wouldn't let that happen. And he came in and he destroyed the whole thing. So, you know, it is what it is. But what. What happened and what transpired because of that, I went back to work for a guy who owned a Ziebart franchise and which is a rust proofing and vehicle protection company in central New York. And on his sales floor, I was very productive for him. By before, I had gotten fired for theft of services because I washed a few buddies cars for pills. And he reached out. He was a friend of the family. Says, I hear you're doing okay now. I'd like to offer you your job back. And I made buck 60, buck 80 working for him. So this was a welcome thing.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

So I said, I'll be there as soon as I can start. He goes, get there Monday. So I started working for him. And John, what happened is, well, that's.

[A]

What the small town pays off, though. Because he heard you were doing better, right?

[B]

Everybody knows everybody. Yep. Yeah, that's better.

[A]

Yeah. Do your thing.

[B]

So I tell you what, man. What you don't realize until you get to Las Vegas is. It's very dry out here.

[A]

Yeah, it's very dry. Sorry.

[B]

No, that's okay. I did a convention and I was giving away gifts and they're like, dude, give away lip balm. Like, why would I give away lip balm? You know, now we can Vegas.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So that's why the water goes with me everywhere. But. So he comes to me after about a week or two. No, no, excuse me. It was about. About a month and a half. Month and a half. Two months. He comes in and he asks me kind of what the agreement that me and the last guy I had, and he writes it down. And then he comes in the next day and he writes down some new figures that were a little bit more beneficial to me. Draws an X and a line and pushes it across the desk to me. I said, what's that? He goes, you need to be a business owner. He goes, you should not be working for me. He goes, but I know you're in a position right now where you don't have a choice. So instead of letting you work for me, work you like a mule for 10%, he goes, I'm going to do what you're one day going to thank me for, which is stake you to open your own business and let you make 55%. And then one day, if I ever need to call upon you, kind of like, you know, it'll be a favor, it'll be a favor.

[A]

I'll call on you.

[B]

So it was kind of like that. Very much like that. If you knew this guy, you'd understand that that was pretty relevant, that movie for him. But. Okay, let's just put it this way.

[A]

There's no.

[B]

If I didn't pay back the loan.

[A]

It would have put a bit of.

[B]

Problem, concrete shoes, no question in my mind. So I knew that. But for once in my life, John, I knew that I could do it. And I knew that I didn't have a vice.

[A]

And that business took off.

[B]

And if I was going to fail, it was going to be because I wasn't capable. I would, I would pay him back earnestly and I would move on, but I didn't plan on.

[A]

So obviously that business took off.

[B]

That became CNY Drives, which is now a three car auto dealer group in central New York that does primarily used cars and subprime credit. It's a very, It's. It's a nice little profitable company and it served me well.

[A]

Well, before we get on to now, the national training of sales agents Salespeople everywhere. I want to talk about, let's do this. Let's do true or false. Okay. Which is my opinion from working at the car dealership. This is the things I tell people they should do when they buy a car.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you tell me true or false. Number one, in every car dealership, there's a. There's a board somewhere in the car dealership that has every salesman's name on it with X's and lines.

[C]

When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof like Ello or Allbirds or Skims, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the business behind the business making selling simple for millions of businesses. That business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Allbirds uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com try all lowercase go to shopify.com try to upgrade your selling today shopify.com/try showing half deals or.

[A]

Whole deals that they've done that year. I recommend you walk in and find the worst salesman and ask for him. True or false?

[B]

True. I would say maybe one up because that guy's usually about to get fired. Okay, follow up.

[A]

And the reason being is because that dude is desperate for a deal and he is not going to fight at all.

[B]

He's got plenty of time to spend with you.

[A]

He's not going to fight for the pencil at all. He's going to fall over and tell you exactly.

[B]

True? Definitely true.

[A]

Number two, you should buy a car on the last day of the month.

[B]

Very true.

[A]

And the reason for that is they.

[B]

Got numbers to hit and they'll give a car away and they'll slam dunk themselves into a trade.

[A]

And isn't most interest on the on the auto lines figured on the first of the month?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Anything still sitting on the lot they pay interest on, it's gone. They pay less. Okay, number two or number three. Here's my third one. You should go 20 minutes before they close on the last day of the month.

[B]

Month. True. I see where you're going with that. True. Sales manager wants to say no.

[A]

Finance manager. Finance manager wants to get to that part. He wants to get to that dinner buddy. He's done, and you're sitting there grinding him for everything.

[B]

You're not going to get the full menu on that day. You're going to get maybe a warranty and that's it.

[A]

That's it. Yeah, but he's going to fall over when you push back on all of the garbage that he's patting on you in the box.

[B]

He's going to say, sure, no problem. Won't start his truck and go, feel.

[A]

Better because I'm giving people good advice. So there you go. That's it. So let's.

[B]

Advice validated.

[A]

All right, there it is. So let's talk about a little bit about. About you training people nationwide. Let's talk about that.

[B]

It's really simple how it became. I realized eventually, after several years of doing it, that I was not a good car dealer. I was a mediocre car dealer, but I was incredibly effective at training salespeople. People would come into my store vendors and they would be like, bro, where did you find these people? I'm like, what are you talking about? Your sales staff? They're assassins. Well, that guy came from Securitas. He was a mall security guard. That guy worked for Freihoffers. He drove a bread truck. This over here was a stripper. Oddly enough, some synchronicity there. But there was no rhyme or reason to where these people came from.

[A]

No common ground. You just made them that way.

[B]

I taught them a process that I call compassionate interrogation. And I teach them a process called the big three framework, which not to get into coin phrases and things like that, but very simply, it just means that you don't show a product and sell the product and then ask someone to buy the product and then overcome objections and then close the deal. The sale is not showcasing the product. The sale is an interrogation process to find out why is the customer here, what type of car are they looking for or problem are they looking to solve, depending on what a tangible asset or a service or whatever it is. Go into a discovery exercise with this customer that. And we teach them a way to do it that pays a lot of respect to the human condition. So it's all about the customer. It's not interrogation. It's not. John, are you trading? It's EQ conversational. It's comfortable. Okay, I would agree with you. And it's. It's a way that the. And the thing, the most important or one of the most important things. I probably say the most important thing 100 times a day. One of the most important things is the fact that the salesperson remains abundantly confident because they're conversational. When you teach salespeople word tracks, they're the words of another human being. They're never going to say those words with the same tenacity and efficacy as they would their own natural conversation. And when they believe they possess the ability to interrogate out of somebody all the components they need to put the deal together, they're extremely effective. And when you get to the end of a sale and somebody can't say, well, I need to talk to my wife, because you flush that out at the beginning. You use something that we call a time gate, which essentially incentivizes the customer to move sooner. And it's not about solving whether or not they can do it now or do it without their spouse. And that's a common misconception in sales, I think, and I'd be curious to see what your opinion is on this, but you're not. If you, if your wife said, john, don't you dare buy a boat without going by me for, I want to know the payment. I want to know the color, you can do it, brother. You're getting divorced.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you going to buy a boat without her? No, of course not. Okay. But if you go out to a place to buy a boat and you're not 100 sure you want that boat, or you can say the guy, well, I need to talk to my wife about it.

[A]

And that. No, that's, that's. Yeah, I got to talk to my wife or talk to my spouse is always the. To just get off.

[B]

Well, that's what I'm. That's exactly what I'm saying.

[A]

It's not the real.

[B]

The question I had was never the real. If you don't like the boat, but you like the salesman, he's a nice guy, you don't want to say, dude, I don't like your boat, you're never going to see me again.

[A]

So what's your, what's your pivot off of that?

[B]

What's that. What's your pivot there you're talking about? When that comes to fruition, it's not going to happen. Because at the outset of the conversation, I'm going to say to you, john.

[A]

Have you talked to your wife about this?

[B]

Well, not even. Have you talked to your wife? It's like, so, are you going to be in the boat? Does the wife like to swim too. You know, we got nice bathing suits and jet skis. Oh, yeah, she loves the boat. Cool, man. So she just. You guys are landing on a black one and that's what she sent you out to buy? It's an inferred statement.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And it's. Well, no, she hasn't. Oh, so you guys even talked about it yet? Oh, okay. Well, she's probably going to want to be a part of the process. You think? I mean. Yeah, eventually. Oh, Jesus. Bummer. Okay, well, listen, let me ask you a question before I move forward. There's two. Two ways I can quote you. Okay. Right now. And then you create the urgency. Right now we're having a three day sale and this is conveniently day three. And I'm saying this now, John, because I don't want to say it at the end of the conversation because you're going to think it's some sales trick. Right? I'm just honestly at the outset of this conversation letting you know there's two ways I can quote you today. I can quote you on that boat in stock with the deal that we have going on. That's knock your socks off. And what's most people, you weave in the human condition. What most people are doing to get good deals right now. Like the people that are walking out of here with the killer deals, that's what they're doing. But it's not going to make sense for me to do that. If you need to talk to the wife, do it a month from now, whatever. So which way would you like me to quote you today? And you put the onus on the customer and it's called a time gate. And if the customer, like they could do it, they, they don't need the wife. They want to know, like they're compelled. They want to know what that price is. They're so thirsty to know what lays behind door number one, they're to give in and they're going to say no, you can, you can show me the sale pricing and then you just reiterate. Okay, well, I just. You did hear me say that's a decision that would need to happen today, right? Yeah, I mean, I'm not pushing you to make a decision.

[A]

I want you to do what's good for you.

[B]

I just want you to make sure that you don't call me in a week and ask to see the. No, no, no. And then you confirm. Oh, so if the planet's aligned, then you could pull the trigger. Just out of curiosity. Yeah, I mean, I'd say Okay, great. But move on. Very nonchalant, very conversational versus to buy it. Well, I got to talk to my wife. Well, why do you really need your wife? And isn't anything worth doing tomorrow worth doing today? And does your wife love you? Does she want you to be better or more confident? Once you be more confident with all that horseshit, man, you can't do that. Conversational, right?

[A]

No, no. I find that with our process because again, in real estate, it's a long process. It's not short. You know, we, we. What we do is it's much easier because, you know, we try to cover as many of the things that could happen through the process of buying a house and get clients comfortable with hypotheticals and get them to agree to hypotheticals way before it happens. So, for example, like, like if the market's hot and there's a lot of competition, it's like, look, you know, we're going to go out, we're going to see, we're going to narrow it down to three houses and we're going to say, do you want to write an offer on this house, this house, or both of them? And a lot of people are like, you write an offer on both. More than one house, like, of course you can. Sure you can. Can't the seller take more than one offer? Yeah, they can look at more than one offer. We're going to write more than one. And having them agree to that hypothetically, before it becomes reality and fruit of them, makes it much easier to go down that road. When it is in front of them, you have them agree to all of these things hypothetically. You know, we talk about the inspections at detail or like, look, when the inspection comes back on the house, the idea is not necessarily to get the house back to 100% perfect like it was the day they built it. We're looking for anything that material effects of value or is health and safety. And that way when, when, when it comes back and you know, every. If you've ever bought a house, you've seen the inspection, it's like 50 pages of everything. They don't freak out, right? You're like, okay, we're going to go through this and do what we talked about y and do this. And I think just prepping people, it's the same as what you're talking about. But just effectively prepping people for what's coming saves a lot of problems.

[B]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. So, so what you and I are talking about is very much the same thing, which is using Your knowledge of what is about to be to stop it from happening before it happens. Like if, if you know that you're for instance, you've got a customer. And I keep it on the car business just because it's the easiest thing for me to iterate tongues. I own three car dealerships, but customer comes and says, yeah, I'm looking to be. And here's the bane of my existence. I love when car sales people do this. Well, what kind of monthly payment are you looking to be at? Oh, I want to be under 400 bucks a month. Great. Congratulations, dickhead. You just painted yourself into a corner. Go now. Spend the entire afternoon talking yourself out of that. How are you going to ask somebody a question when if they give you an answer you don't like, you're going to hold it against them? Yeah, you know, so it's not what kind of monthly payment are you looking to be? It's a price condition. Hey, man, generally these trucks run, you know, with no money down. Anywhere from 800 bucks a month. A month, up to 1200 bucks a month, depending on rate and terms. You want to keep looking? Oh, I mean, geez, I had no idea that one. Okay, well, we can look at something cheaper. Maybe like a compact pickup truck. Well, no, I need a truck like that. Well, there's things that'll affect the payment. I mean, if you have a trade and you have some cash down. Well, yeah, I'm putting some cash down. Oh, okay, so you're putting some cash down. That helps, you know, other things too, like, you know, credit worthiness and things like that. I've been 800 credit score. You'd be amazed what you can find out in a discovery process when you just do a conditioning exercise like that. So what we do with salespeople is we essentially, number one, we have something, you know, and you always have your coin term so people can remember things. Right. So we have the three Cs. Content, Confidence and cadence. Would you agree that a salesperson cannot be effective to their potential unless they do a similar framework every time they sell?

[A]

Process matters.

[B]

You have to have measurable results. If I'm using a different process on four different people, I don't know if I missed here, made there, or if.

[A]

My trajectory is up. Because you can't have. You cannot evaluate quality KPIs unless you.

[B]

Are using 1000% and a fancy word like KPIs key performance indicators. Unless you're doing the same thing each time. It's like running a hose down different places of the Concrete and trying to figure out where the water flows the best. It's got to be consistency, right? So that's content. So that's a framework. That's a sales framework. It's not word tracks. It's not one liners. It's not. These are my brain based questions to get the customer. No, it's not. These are the rebuttals you use when the cut. No, it's a process. Number one. Why are you here? Yeah, why are you here? Well, I'm looking to buy a car. Everybody's looking to buy a car at a car dealership. Why are you here? Well, because I need a truck. Right. But why today?

[A]

You know the craziest thing everybody said, they say when I walked out to a dude in the lot one day, this is the only time I've ever been speechless in sales.

[B]

So be good.

[A]

This is going to be offensive. Just, just throwing it out there. I didn't say it tell a story, right. I walk out to this dude, I go, how you doing, man? He's got. Because I'm doing good. It was a stuff on the lot. And I go, think about getting new car. Likes me, goes, oh man, I'm thinking about, you gotta buy a new car.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

I was like, okay.

[B]

Like I was speechless, dude. I love that.

[A]

I was dead speechless.

[B]

We, we trained salespeople.

[A]

Like, please don't hold that story against me, people. That really happened. It's not my word. That is not a word I use a lot.

[B]

It's not anything that's not believable, man. You get those people and it's like, ever notice this when you're in sales? You get those guys that feel like they have to arm themselves for the conversation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you start walking towards them, they're like, it's like you see them sharpening a knife, you know, metaphorically. Yeah. And you come over and it's like, hey man, how you doing? I'm just looking, man. I'm just looking. It's like, yeah, well, dude, you talk about that, right?

[A]

You talk about that. And this is why I teach everybody that sells with the phone. The worst thing you can ever say in the phone is, hey, Bill, blah blah, how you doing today? Because when you say, how you doing today? People are so programmed. Like we are programmed. Like, when you drove over here today, did you almost die?

[B]

Yeah, I could have, many times.

[A]

Yeah. You're in a 10,000 pound. You're in a 6,000 pound death machine going 70 miles an hour down a road with somebody else. In a 6,000 pound death machine coming the other way that at any time they could have just swerved over and killed you. Whoever's driving, sorry about that. As you guys leave, you'd be thinking about that now, but you could have died.

[B]

But here's the way I drive. She's talking about.

[A]

No, but here's what happens. So the brain conditions your. Yourself.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To understand that that's not probably going to happen. So you don't even think about it. Otherwise be walking around like, oh God, like all the time, like fight or flight. So you condition things to eliminate them. So it's just like when, when that person, when you're. Are you a person in a clothing store that likes to be helped?

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

Right. You're in the store, man, you're looking and you see them coming and you're just waiting for them to get close enough. You say, I'm just looking.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. They could be walking up to hand you a million dollars and you'd be like, no, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. You don't even want to hear it because you're conditioned to what they're going to do. And if you're selling with the phone, when you call people and say, hey, how you doing today? Every telemarketer in the world says when they call, hey, how you doing today? I am like, their brain shuts completely off to, this is a telemarketer. Again, you could be calling to give them a million dollars. They're not even going to hear it. So it's those patterns and those frequencies. So important.

[B]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I love that Something that we teach is the frequency of authenticity. So you cannot read off a script, you cannot use a can statement. Nothing that you can do with predetermined language is ever going to come across authentically. It's the same way that you can watch Donald Trump speak. And when he shifts this way, you, you know, he's looking at the starboard teleprompter and when he shifts that way, you know, he's looking at the port teleprompter.

[A]

And then when he looks at the audience, he's talking.

[B]

No, but really, we've got the worst, the worst people doing the worst things. And we know, and we know what we're doing and we're going to do it. We're going to do it the best way. And frankly, frankly, we're going to do it the best way. And we're.

[A]

It's Going to be huge.

[B]

And our administration served you for four years. It's like, oh, he's back on the teleprompter. And it's obvious right now it's not. And that's what kills me about the sales trainers that are out there. And I'm not vilifying anybody. These guys make lots of money. They help lots of people. But there's a difference between getting somebody from 0 to 60 and 0 to 160 to 100. And if you want to take a salesperson and maximize their efficacy and get their potential out of them, they have to walk like you're. I can tell you're a gangster. You can sell anything to anybody. And you believe you can, don't you?

[A]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[B]

100, right? It just reeks off of you. It does off of me, too. And you're sitting here right now. I bet you can. I'll sell this motherfucker. How good is he? Right? We're both doing it because that's what we do, right? Tell me I'm wrong.

[A]

Now. We're going to buy a house here. We're just going to make that easy. So, I mean, you really want to go back to New York?

[B]

No, I don't. We've already established that we're a shoe in, brother. It's Miami or Vegas. So the bottom line is when you have a salesperson who does not have that, like, you're at the top of your food chain because you have that. Okay. Along with many other things, charisma and determination and all the other things that make you you. When you can take a salesperson and you can get. Give them intrinsic confidence, real true confidence, you bring their efficacy far higher than you ever could with word tracks or scripted rebuttals or practiced questions. Because when somebody has an asset that came from somewhere else that they're using as a key to plug into a lock, there's. It's like you go home and you got your key, you put it in the door. There's always the hesitancy. Is the door going to open, the lock going to be frozen? Did I bring the wrong key? Like you're not connected to it, versus no lock being on the door. You just walk into the house. And when somebody is supremely confident as a salesperson and they know they can handle themselves conversationally no matter what somebody rebuts with no matter what objection they give them. And when they know that at the outset of the conversation, they can solve for what we call the triple threat. Time, money, Third party. They know they can do that, brother. They're effect just a level of their efficacy goes through the roof. And that's what we train people.

[A]

It's so funny, man. Talk about confidence and sales. I got a guy that is English that works for me, Matt. And one of the most. My business partner is also English. And one of the biggest unfair things on in. In the world of business is this. You can take the smartest dude from America and drop him off in London, and those limey bastards will be like, this idiot. What a. And conversely, you can take the dumbest person from England and drop them off in America and everybody's like, oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. This person's a genius. So just to prove. Just to prove a point, I wrote three nonsense words.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or nonsense phrases on cards. And Matt got on the phone with. With a client. Just supreme confidence.

[B]

Oh, I love it.

[A]

And it randomly. And he was on the speaker and it was during a meeting, and he was talking to this client, and I would randomly hand him cards, and he had to say what was ever on the card. And he'd be like, oh, I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to dodge at your uncle's tractor, aren't you, Roger? Like, yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. Dodger the tractor. Like, no clue what any of this means. And it just went down so smooth because it was the supreme level of confidence.

[B]

It's the. It's the supreme level of confidence. Quick, very funny. 32nd story. Guy by the name of Mike Zaga. Okay. And I don't want to do him any disjustice, but. Or injustice, but I believe he's a Lebanese. His family is Lebanese. And he's a car salesman legend in the car business in central New York. And he's working at a car dealership. And this was one of my first tastes of kind of like when they told you that they would be your roommate because you were so good. You're like, wow, I'm actually good. This is. This is. They're paying me to stay. I had a similar thing when a dealership called me and said, what's your salary? 200. Okay, here's. It's 500. Do you have a demo? No. You have one here. You know, company car. And what's your percentage? 10. It's 20 here. When are you starting? Holy shit. Right? So I moved. I'm starting there. And used to. Just to give you some. Some backstory, he would come, I'd be sitting With a customer. He would come in with a pot of coffee and a towel over his arm. Like a concierge or like a waiter. He'd come and he'd pour everybody coffee sitting in there and he'd act like he was my butler. Just for kicks, right? Just because he enjoyed it. Guy comes in one day, he's like the typical dealership stroke we all have when the guy's in there once or twice, you know, a month, just stroking everybody. He comes in, he's looking at a truck and he, Mike comes over and he's like, oh, hello sir, how you doing? He's like, I'm pretty good. Just, you know, I had to deal with this weather. He goes, yes, I'll tickle your ass with a feather if you'd like. And the guy goes, huh? He goes, the weather was terrible. He goes, yeah. And he's like, yeah, okay, all right. Yeah, I'm looking for a truck. I need somebody. Yes, you can go yourself. Right over here are the trucks. And dude, he did it for a solid hour. And the guy never, I mean, subconsciously, he felt something was wrong. We're over it, holding ourselves, trying not to pee. We're laughing, laughing so hard. But it's just a perfect example of when you have that supreme level of confidence, you can convince somebody else that something that's not real is real. Much like your guy with dodging your uncle's tractor.

[A]

Amen. Amen. Well, dude, we're gonna leave it with that dude. If they want to learn more about how to sell with supreme confidence, how do they find you, bro?

[B]

So Instagram. So all the social medias, it's at Lukelunk. L u k e l u n k YouTube. We're paid to persuade. Paid. The number two, persuade. If they're interested in the sales training, it's paid to persuade dot com. Paid the number two persuade dot com. One of the big things that I'm big on, a lot of sales trainers in this ecosystem, they put out clips hoping to go viral with cute one liners and phrases and things and taking guys shirts off and everything else. Every day, at least every day. Worst I could tell you.

[A]

I could tell you the worst.

[B]

The worst. Agreed. So what I do and nowhere near as popular because it's not entertainment value.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I give out.

[A]

Oh, I'm pretty sure. Look, we entertained today. I mean, we've definitely offended some people. Again, the thoughts and views of myself do not reflect the thoughts and views of myself.

[B]

That's what it's supposed to say.

[A]

I Think that's the fine print. Just apologize now. Is there. Do I need to go to rehab? Is that. Is that. I'm going to spend some time getting, like. I don't know.

[B]

I think they're here because they like it. You know who Tai Lopez is?

[A]

I do know. Ty.

[B]

Ty. I was talking to Ty. We're doing a podcast, and I'm like, ty, you know, like, truth be told, man, candidate, like, I just. I give tremendous amounts of value. Everybody that I train gets incredibly successful. Like, but on social media, I just never blow up. He goes, dude, you're not pissing anybody off.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[B]

And he goes, if you want to be famous on social media, he's like, I can show you how to get 600,000 people to love you, but you got to understand there's going to be 400,000 that are going to despise you.

[A]

Well, dude, that. That's why I got to tell you. My. My. A good friend of mine can't clothier, who I love always says, dude, I'm polarizing. I'm purpose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I want. Dude. He goes, I am unapologetically me. And when you meet me, I want you to love me or hate me as quickly as possible because I need to sort people.

[B]

That's very. You know, that's. I. I appreciate that.

[A]

I don't have time. I got to sort. That's what I'm doing. So, guys, there it is, man, if you want to.

[B]

Oh, cool.

[A]

My car's on its way back. Love that.

[B]

It's always a good way to get home.

[A]

Got some new wheels today. So you get it. It's pretentious and stupid, but it's okay.

[B]

So it's a ghost or a close. That's a. What's it calling in?

[A]

Not a Cullinan.

[B]

No, I don't know any more. Roles.

[A]

Wraith.

[B]

Wraith. The Ra. The other one. They say in rap songs. Why didn't. I guess. Yeah.

[A]

So. Right. But no. So I put 24s on it today.

[B]

Yeah, it's on his way back. Very nice. I wrote in Brad's ghost the other day and looked like an idiot coming back from the protein house because I couldn't figure out how to open the door. I drive a one ton pickup truck with a big diesel motor and leather seats, bro.

[A]

I don't hate it. I don't hate it. No. This thing's like driving a fast couch.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

I love it. It's good. So there we go. Anyway, dude, if you want to learn how to sell with more confidence. Look at my man Luke. He will sort you out. Pleasure having you, bro. You're welcome anytime.

[B]

Appreciate you want to come back, dude?

[A]

All right. All right guys. We'll see you next week. Unless we're canceled. Then you'll never see me again. What's up everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it or at least as much as I did. I out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift. Com. You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review, give us a share.

[B]

Do something man.

[A]

We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.