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Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Bankruptcy & Trauma to $150M Brand - Suzy Batiz on Intuition
01:02:59
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
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You didn't start a business just to
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keep the lights on.
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You're here to sell more today than yesterday. You're here to win. Lucky for you, Shopify built the best converting checkout on the planet. Like the just one tapping ridiculously fast acting sky high sales stacking champion of checkouts. That's the good stuff right there. So if your business is in it to win it, win with Shopify. Start your free trial today@shopify.com win back again, back again in time for another episode of like it says in the opening, the podcast that gets you from where you are to where you want to go. And today live in studio. This is an incredibly special show and I have somebody here that is going to absolutely blow your wig off. If you are somebody that wants to talk about having a dream and achieving stuff, I'm talking about this very well. I was thinking about it this morning when I was going through this and you look at all of the successful people that we've have gone through this room and this person is probably financially in the top five wealthiest of everybody that I've ever had come through here. Probably top five. An incredible story. Invented an incredible product, really from scratch. A lifelong entrepreneur that has just done amazing things and I cannot wait to pick her brain. Ladies and gentlemen, she is the inventor of the Poo Pourri brand and also the supernautical. Welcome to the program. This is Susie Batiz. Susie, how are you?
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I'm amazing.
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I'm so grateful to have you here today. Your story is incredible. Thank you. The success that you've achieved is some stuff that people can only kind of dream of. So take me back. Obviously I don't need to get your, your origin story as far as. I grew up in a small home. But when was the first time in your life you realized you wanted to be an entrepreneur?
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I had my first business when I was 19 and I bought a bridal salon.
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B
How did you buy a bridal salon at 19?
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C
Yeah, it was a lot of my ex. I was married at 19.
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Okay.
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So between my family and his family, we put down a small deposit. It was mostly owner finance. I got totally screwed in the deal. So I was bankrupt by 20, bought a bunch of old Inventory as old as the lady. It was in Arkansas. Yeah. Also, I was pretty rad. Like, I painted all the windows black and all the mannequins black because they were old, like pitch black. And then put white dresses. You see it now in all the high end stores. Right. Why did that 40 years ago anyway? It didn't go over well in Arkansas.
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It didn't work well.
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No. I was like that rodeo rider, you know, that comes out of the gate and it just flops down and you're like, they didn't get to ride.
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B
Yeah. They didn't see any of it. Yeah.
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That was my entrepreneurial first journey.
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That was the first one. So. So, so when that happens and that flops, what don't you just say, well, I'm not doing that again?
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No, because I had actually my. Some. A family member had introduced me to the CEO of the bank and he had owned a several. Is it CEO, president, whatever. Whoever owns the bank? He owns the bank. And his name was Wallace Fowler and he owned a whole chain of Kentucky Fried Chickens and all kinds of. He had made a bunch of money, you know, in our town. And I went to him to borrow money and. Because money was going to get me out of this, right? And he was like, yeah. He taught me really two really valuable lessons. He said, the first lesson in business is you need to know when you have a rotten fish. And when you have a rotten fish, you need to turn your back and then throw it out and never look back. Right. He was basically telling me like, you bought a rotten fish. Which I did. And the second rule. And I said very arrogantly at, you know, 20 years old. Well, at least I learned from experience. And he said, well, fools will learn no other way. And I was like, okay. And he had told me he had been bankrupt several times. And he was like, bankruptcy is not a defining moment. It is something that happens. And if you're going to be an entrepreneur, you kind of get the stomach for it. So just keep going. But, yeah, I know you're not getting money.
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Oh, man. Yeah, I love, I love that you said that. Because one of my favorite sayings that actually I came up with was, you know, they say that, you know, rough seas make good sailors. I always say, I'd rather be an average sailor and a pretty good meteorologist.
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Exactly.
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Like, I think you save yourself a lot of trouble if you do it that way.
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C
A lot of trouble.
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So he said, you're not getting any money. He says, 20 years old, the dressing failed. So I'm guessing in One of the things that makes everybody that I know that's a great entrepreneur, a great entrepreneur is they're chronically unemployable. Like they're just. There's no way they could work for somebody else. What point of your life did you figure that out?
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I figured that out. Right after that I went to go get a job at a dentist office and I was like, no, I really, really can do this. And the guy goes, no, because you're this kind of person. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, you're not going to be here very long. Like you're going to, you're going to be out of here. So I'm not going to train you. Just I'm not going to be your stepping stone is what he actually told me. And I was like, man, that's not cool, you know? So I really couldn't find a job. And then I got into another marriage and well, I was always hustling, man. I got my sister into one of those. Do you remember those? What were those things? They're like you, you get, you bring $5,000 to the party and then she recruit so many people.
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B
Oh, at mlm, like, like a Tupperware,
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kind of like that, except it's illegal.
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Oh, so that'd be pyramid scheme.
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Yeah, I got into one of those.
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That's a pyramid scheme.
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I got into one of those. Thank God my uncle was this sheriff. So he comes in to raid the place. He's like, you girls get out of here. But I tell you that story in that I didn't know was illegal. But I was always hustling, always trying to do something. I was always making stuff, you know, out of the backseat of my car. At 21, 22, I built a sewing factory from the ground up because my mother in law at the time wanted to get in the clothing business. And I'm like, you really can't do that. And she wanted to do it. And I'm like, okay. So I figured out how to build a clothing factory. I end up.
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So wait, wait. I mean, what year is this?
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This is 1990, probably seven.
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Okay, all right. So I mean, look, I mean, you had the benefit of like YouTube and all that stuff that was out there, but it wasn't like.
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I'm sorry, 87.
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87, okay. That's what I'm saying.
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No, no, I was 22, so 87.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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You didn't have the benefit of all this stuff.
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I didn't do anything.
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So like, did you figure, how did you figure all this out?
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I just figured it out. I was like, okay, hold on. You have to. I learned I can quickly become an expert in any field. I get really interested, I dive in really quick. I can find out enough to be dangerous. Right. And then enough to get started. I'm a startup junkie. The problem with being like that is that you're not necessarily built for the long game.
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Yeah.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Because you get bored.
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I get bored.
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Because you get bored.
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I always wanted to start up something.
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So I'm guessing you're just like a ravenous consumer of information when you get it.
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Yes.
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You find the right. When you pull the right thread. Now you're just going to pull it all the way.
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I'm going to pull it all the way. I'm going to. I'm going to learn how to do it, then I'm going to build it, and then I'm want to be on to something else.
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Well, let's go. Okay, so let's back up though, because that's such a challenge for people. Because, you know, I think that people that obviously got a little touch of adhd, as we probably all do, and if they're high performing, you're like a touch. I got half a bucket of it.
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Or an overflowing bucket.
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An overflowing bucket of it.
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I prefer to say I have hummingbird energy.
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Okay. Hummingbird energy. That's a polite way to put it.
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Very polity. But you know, hummingbirds, when they're, when they're interested, they're.
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They're all in and then they're all in.
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That's it. And then it's like, I gotta go.
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So. Okay, so tell me about a time before, because obviously you built some massive companies and we're going to get to that. So tell me about a time early in your career when that energy burned you.
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Oh, it always burnt me because I get bored. Right. And it's funny because I was talking with Tamara about that when we were filming earlier. You know, my personality is ready, fire. There's a portion of AIM that is kind of missing.
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Yeah.
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It's like, I really don't think you need a lot of plans and you don't. And in the grand scheme, I've pulled off some pretty good stuff and that's too. It's a blessing and a curse.
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Yeah.
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Just because you pulled off it worked once doesn't mean it's always going to work. So I've learned that it is good to have an idea and to make somewhat of a plan, you know. Yeah, to me, it's better ready, fire, and to try a lot of things. And it is what I think most people have, which is ready, aim, aim, aim, aim. At 20, 30 years down the line, they're like, I had that idea a gazillion years ago. Well, yeah, you never fired.
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Yeah.
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Okay. So I would rather be in my bucket than that bucket. So I have to make sure I have people around me and structures around me where people know how to aim.
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B
Got it. So. But earlier in your career, though, you probably had some stuff that was pretty good that you got going and kind of fell apart because you lost interest.
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Yeah, I lost interest, but I also was never passionate about it. You know, it'd be like, oh, heck, I need to make money. So I'll call up manufacturers and I'll talk them into me selling. I've sold. I've sold truckloads of gearboxes. I've sold truckloads of fabric. I've sold. You know, I was just hustling, man. Always just, you know, I'd make clothes and then go sell them at garage sales or put them in the back of my car and sell them at beauty salons. So here.
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Well, let me ask you this, because this brings up an interesting question, right, which is. So there's two kinds of people that hustle like that, in my experience, right? There's people that hustle to get ahead and then there's people to hustle to stay afloat. Which one were you? Were you both at one? Both? At some point?
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C
Yeah. I really thought. Actually I was running my whole life, right? I. And I thought that money could get me something. I thought it could get me some sort of worth, you know, self worth. So I remember hearing a story, not hearing a story, but hearing a comment from my aunt and she was talking to. I don't remember my mom was in the room, but she looked at my sister and I and she said, those girls will never amount to anything. And I remember taking that on number one as an identification, right. But also as a mission to prove her wrong. So it's kind of both, right? So I needed to be afloat to make money. Because, you know, my God, I had my first kid at 23, and then I had two more. I had three kids. You know, I'm running around just trying to live, just hustling, you know. Yeah, man. You know, and I didn't have any education, I didn't go to college. So I knew that a regular job wasn't going to get me ahead in any way. I knew that. And also I didn't trust a lot of the system early on. You know, I went through abuse. I went through, you know, sexual abuse, being raped, domestic abuse I went through. So I didn't trust a lot of outside sources. What I trusted was myself. Like, I knew I could make it somehow.
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See, I love this type of story because, you know, there's so you had so many things going against you and, you know, all of these systemic things or whatever you might want to picture. And yet here you are. And I'll never. A story for me is I released a book. I published my first book in October. And of all the reviews that came out, most, most were good, some were fair, whatever. You know, it's one person reading an opinion. But the one that bothered me was from Publishers Weekly came out and said it was good for the most part. But it ended up with saying that they found my advice somewhat trite and occasion because I failed to address the systemic issues and I presented all problem, assault problems as solvable. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's exactly my philosophy. And the reason that I do that is because I sit here in this room with people just like yourself and I hear these amazing stories of overcoming tragedy that I personally can't understand because I never had to do anything like that. And then you had this massive success. And if you were to like, take this and write it on paper and
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domestic abuse, single mother with three kids. You know, just lay it all out real quick, whatever it was, you know, homeless, laid off.
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Let's keep going. And then, and then here, Suicide attempt.
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Yeah. And then lay it all out on the end. And here's the answer. Like, that doesn't go with this, but yet here we are.
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Yes.
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So it's like when you, when you hear these stories and you personally going through those, you must just like, you must have zero room in you when
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people whine, oh, zero.
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Like there's just zero excuse. Like there's no excuse.
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It's like, well, what I say is, I'm not going to sit around, listen to your limitations. You know, you can tell it to someone else. Like I'm not going to condone it or believe it, but sure, whatever.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get it. You know, you said, talking about not taking limitations. You said you had three kids. What's it like growing up in your house?
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Oh, my God, it was crazy, actually. My son, I won't give the title, but my son. And I was encouraging him to write a book of what it was like being with a child of a mother who was hustling for everything. You know, I'm sure it wouldn't be a great picture, but I do think it's an important story to be told. You know, what's it like when you're the. You know, it's like on one hand he learned everything solvable, every problem, you know, you can get out of. But on the other hand, he was a part of the chaos, right? It's like, can you imagine jumping from job to job and career and doing, you know, it's just like, you know, you gotta feel a hustle in there. And it's not that, it's just me. He also was representing kind of a period of women's liberation, right? You know, saying he was a victim of a bigger story, which is why I was such a, and still am, such a supporter of him telling the story. It's like, you know, there was this thing where women all of a sudden could start making their own money and you can make your own way and you can, you know, and then what happened to the children and the way of that, There's a lot of good that came out of it and there's also a lot of harm, I believe.
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Yeah, well, I'm Hearing a lot of similarities kind of in your story in that movie, Joy.
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Yes.
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There's a lot of similarities from where she was to where you are. And it's interesting, and I'm curious, based on that parallel, did you have a similar experience when you first started coming out with products and business, that it was difficult to get people to take you seriously?
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C
Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember the first market. So, you know, I invented this in my home. I didn't really want a product. I'd sworn off business. I was like, that's the devil. I ain't doing that no more. After my second bankruptcy, I was like, that's it. I'm done. I went into a spiritual sabbatical. And, you know, somebody said, can bathroom odor be trapped? I won't tell the story. You can Google it. But anyway, it was too good of an idea to keep to myself. So it was like, shit, okay, I got to make it. And then I remember my first market. We spent $5,000. And we go to market, and I look around all these booths, like these professional booths, and people kind of walking and giggling at me, right? And I looked at my husband at the time. I'm like, we got to get out of here. Like, what the hell were we thinking? And he's like, we paid $5,000.
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We are staying every second of the day.
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We paid 5,000 to start the company. You know, like, this is a major investment here. We are going to stay. And I'm like, and thank God for him. We. We ended up saying it still would have worked. But I was like, man, this is a big mistake. Like, we should not do this. And then, of course, you know, it worked. I think we made. We had sold like 25 or $35,000. And then the next week I went to Atlanta. We actually did eight, 19 years ago, a million dollars, our first year with a five dollar product. That was 20 years ago.
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Yeah, that's a lot.
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It was crazy success because it worked. The product was that good.
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It's that good of a product.
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Yeah.
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So back to.
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Back to, like, didn't have a lot to do with me. I mean, it had a lot to do with my determination. And I was going to keep going, but it was such a good product that people.
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I have. I have a story. We have a story right now that's kind of unfolding. One of my agents that worked for me personally, her husband invented this spot remover, and it was his dad's creation called Stingray spot remover.
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Yeah.
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And they had it. And then because the shows here in Vegas, it became like the go to spot remover for whatever just out of the garage, right? And then one of the people that was in the shows here in the backstage wound up working for Oprah. And they were getting ready to go on, and she spilled chocolate on something she was going to wear. And she's like, I have a new outfit. And the guy's like, no, no, no, I got it. I got to go spray it on. Got the chocolate out. And she's like, what was that? And then it made. This just happened. This is all happening, like, right now. It just made her list of favorite things. And they went from, like, selling like, maybe 500 bottles a month on Amazon. Oh, my gosh. I think they're selling like 250,000 bottles or some crazy thing a month or something crazy now. And so her life has completely changed. And again, that comes back to it. She had a great product.
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Yes, Right.
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Because her and her family, her husband have this incredible product that works. And sometimes, you know, I wonder how many, like, you hear a story like that. Like, they were making this for years and it just couldn't get out. How many products do you think die because people just can't get them out out in front of the right people?
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Well, good products, that's the problem. People stop it. Good.
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B
Ah.
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So think about this. Think about if there's a new restaurant opened here and you go, how was it? And I'm like, it was good. You know, we had great appetizers. You're not going to run over to that restaurant. But if I go, oh, my God, it was so great, you're not going to believe they have the sushi at the beginning. Blew my mind. You're going to go to the restaurant, right? So most people stop it. Good. And they don't make their product great. Once you make it great to where everybody's gonna. It's.
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It's undeniable.
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It's undeniable. Undeniable, right? It's like, go there. Keep pushing. Go there. It's funny, sometimes I eat, man, some food and I'm like, who was around this person that said, yeah, this is good. Yeah, like a cookie. I'm like, this is not good. Not even good, right?
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B
Much less grapes, average cookie.
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So you're not gonna make it. No matter how much protein it has in it, no matter. It tastes like shit. Okay. People, it's like. So you also have to have that within yourself. You can't listen to external people. They want to please you. They're like, yeah, it's great. And you're like, man, you got a bunch of liars around you.
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B
Yeah, that's not helping anything.
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C
No, you have to have that. Like for example, with Supernatural and Within Poo Pourri, my goal is we make natural products that are better than the chemicals. And that's hard. Our product development cycle is a long time. It's really hard to do. You know, I was the hippie that didn't wear aluminum deodorant 30 years ago.
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B
My wife still does that.
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C
I stunk for many years now. Natural products have evolved. Yeah, they're good, whereas it's great. Right. You know, but most people stop at good. And that's the problem. Somebody's going to talk about good. They think they can throw money at it.
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B
All right.
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C
They get investors and then. And they think it's worth sunk ship. Yeah.
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B
All right, well, let's roll. Let's, let's walk.
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C
That's how that mostly rules.
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B
Let's walk them through. Because I think everybody, everybody out there has that million dollar idea. So they.
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C
In the shower. Yeah.
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B
Like, oh my gosh, we could just do that. It'd be incredible. Right. So let me walk me through. If I'm, if I'm a wantrepreneur at this point, I'm not an entrepreneur, I'm a wantrepreneur. But if I'm a wantreprene, me through the process, if I had this million dollar idea and let's walk it all the way through to make it a reality.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And where I could potentially really screw up.
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C
Oh, I love that question. This is so fun. Well, first of all, most people have their idea. You know, they have ideas and they have in the shower. What makes you an entrepreneur from. Not an entrepreneur is the person that gets out of the shower and says, I'm going to take action, I'm going to do something about this. So that's step one. Okay. Not just having the idea, but going, wow, great idea. I'm going to start researching or developing, let's say I just made a body scrub. Everybody wants me to start a company. I'm not going to do it. I gave away the recipe, but I was buying this body scrub and I couldn't find one in moisturizer skin. So I started researching. I thought, oh, hold on. Why are people not using products that use on your face, on your body? Right. So I started looking and researching what type products go on a face that would actually be good for the skin. Now with AI man, you start a company in A second?
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B
Yeah, no kidding.
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C
Okay. I didn't have AI back then, Right. I'm. I'm mixing and reaching out to experts. So I would say do enough research, see if there's a demand for it. Right. People talk about white space in marketing and CPG products. It means, is there room for this? Well, room is one thing. I say, is there a need space? Are consumers looking for this? Generally, I operate. If I can't find it, I figure someone else needs it too, Right. So that's a good rule.
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B
Do you run tester campaigns like Kickstarter and that sort of stuff?
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C
Nope, nope, nope, nope. So, for example, we just did wipes, and I'm like, man, these things are ugly. Like, where do I put this plastic pouch? I'm like, can we put a box around it? And people are like, you can't put a box around it. I'm like, why not? Like a Kleenex box, like, put a box around it. So we end up getting a patent on it. Well, as my team goes in, what they start proving and then it's like, well, you know, this is a big investment. Should we do it? They go, when they find out the number one search thing for wipes with women is a box to put around it to hide it because they're so ugly. Right. I needed it because I didn't want that ugly plastic thing sitting on the back of my counter.
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B
Sure.
- [23:44]
C
So that's what I would do. I would look and say, is there a need for this in the market? Are there other people like you? And then if there are, you can start looking at, how would I actually make this? AI right now can tell you how to make a product. What manufacturers would do this? Back in the day with poo pourri, I just started calling people I didn't know. I said, hey, I made this product. I just called manufacturers. Do you make this? And they'd be like, no. And I'd say, okay, well, do you know who could help me? And what people underestimate as far as being an entrepreneur is they think, I'm not going to tell anybody my idea because people are out to get me. Number one, nobody's out to get you. I mean, there might be some people, but, you know, that's a whole other thing you gotta look at. But my experience is people want to help you, and you're never going to have the same opportunity as starting something and being new when you are vulnerable and say, I don't know, you know, people always, like, fake it till you make it. Like, that's you don't fake it. You call and go, I don't know what I'm doing. I need help. Do you know who could make this? And they're like, I've had so many people call me and they're like, I don't. But you know what? Let me call you back. Let me get your number. And they'll research and they'll call you back in the right direction. Right? So that's what I started doing, is finding out who can make it, how much would it cost, how many do I have to buy, and if there is a market, and then how do I start marketing in this days, with AI, you can build agents. If you don't know how to build an agent, you can ask an AI how to build an agent, right? And then you can get a whole marketing plan start going. But you're never going to be able to market anything unless successfully with your own funds, with $25,000, unless it's great.
- [25:21]
B
Okay.
- [25:21]
C
Because you need people telling other people about it, and they're not going to tell them about it if it's good.
- [25:27]
B
Okay, so how do you. Okay, let's back up. How do you find out? How do you take your product and do you test it before you go out and then get feed. Get market feedback?
- [25:36]
C
Well, what I did with poo pourri, I did focus groups, which I didn't know there were focus groups. What I did is I pulled outside Starbucks and I would hold up and I would say, which bottle do you like? And they'd say, what's this for? And I'm like, it doesn't matter. And I'd go back in my car and I'd make little notes.
- [25:51]
B
And that was it. You're doing your own focus group.
- [25:54]
C
And then because I wanted like this bright blue bottle, they all chose the clear one. And then I would say, which label do you like? Which this do you like? So I did just in focus groups, and they were like, I like this, I like this, I like this. I'm like, okay, great.
- [26:06]
B
You know, the funniest thing about that is I think with social media, everybody is so conditioned to have to have an opinion on everything. It's probably pretty simple.
- [26:16]
A
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- [27:25]
B
To extrapolate that for people like you, just there's like, yes. No.
- [27:30]
C
Do you like this?
- [27:30]
B
Yes. No. Yes.
- [27:31]
C
Which one do you like? I like that one. Okay, great, we're gonna go with that one.
- [27:35]
B
No, I'm telling you, I tell people
- [27:37]
C
that all the time with scents at the company. You know, like, there's certain scents that are polarizing. Rose geranium. You know, some people love rose, some people hate it. I'm like, we don't do polarizing scents.
- [27:46]
B
No, because rose smells like your grandmother.
- [27:49]
C
Exactly. But some people love it. But I'm not going to put out a product that some people like. I'm going to put out a product everybody likes.
- [27:56]
B
That's a good point. Yeah, it's a good point. What do you so great makes a good product? What makes a good marketing campaign?
- [28:03]
C
Well, what makes a good marketing campaign, I think is the truth. And the more you can lean into the truth and authenticity, the better it will be. For example, with poo pourri, the truth was it was a taboo product. When I was creating it and I tell people what I was doing, they would back up like four feet. Like, you're doing what with what? Right. Not a single person. That was a good idea. So also don't go out and ask everybody, is this a good idea? They're not going to think it is. You got to at least get something first in your incubator, your testing incubator, get it formulated, then start going out talking about it. But I knew that it had to be funny, right? I was like, okay, comedians break taboo topics with comedy. I knew it had to be funny and I knew it had to be pretty. And then I just started telling the truth. Like, shit stinks. We can help, right? This works. It's guaranteed. So I wrote a little thing, and it was a little limerick on the back, and it was, spritz the bowl before you go. And no one else will ever know. And they're like, what? I didn't tell them, like, this is poo pourri. Here's what it does. I would say, hey, this is poo pourri. Spritz the bow. Before you know, no one else will ever know. Before you go, no one else will ever know. They're like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, oh, is this before you go, bathroom spray? You know what I'm saying? It works, guaranteed. You can spray the chocolate. And they're like, oh. So you want to create something that makes people lean in. You don't want to start educating them. You want to draw them with something. And that little poem drawed them in. They're like, what are you talking about?
- [29:31]
B
How do you know when you launch a product if you have a winner? Obviously, sales speaks to everything, but at what point are you like, okay, this is really going to be a winner?
- [29:38]
C
When consumers are like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. You know the old five star reviews.
- [29:44]
B
Yeah.
- [29:44]
C
You know, that's just the truth. You know, you rent an Airbnb, right? You look. You look for the five star reviews. Now there are people in the world that buy reviews, and that's very, very, very bad. You know, I was shocked a few years ago. I go, what? But, you know, you want to look at where it's authentic and you can usually tell if they're authentic reviews. But that's. You want to. Your consumers will tell you if it's good. If they. If they don't, don't. Please don't be disillusioned that they're wrong.
- [30:15]
B
Yeah. Now you, You've been pretty. I mean, this is good, but you've been pretty lucky to not jump on something that is like a fad and it's like a hit and then it goes away. I think this is. This has staying power as it is. Why do you think what makes a difference in a product that becomes a fad and what makes one? Staying power.
- [30:31]
C
Hmm. I think something in a company. I was adamant from the beginning that we're building a brand. It wasn't just the product. So the cult following came in that I really embraced the consumers. I listened to them. I wanted their advice. Tell me, right? Tell me what to do. Tell me what you like, tell me what you don't like, 100%, you know, money back guarantee. I don't care. And I remember my customer service teams, they're like, sometimes we get people and they put water in a bottle and I'm like, if they go through the trouble for 10 bucks, give them their 10. Yeah, who cares, right? It's like, come on, you know, they're always right. Like, you're always right. So I think it's like something that people can count on, you know, fads people can't count on. Yeah, right. But when there's. When it's solid, when it works, it's worth what you pay for it. Right? We're not trying to trick anybody. That that works. And people love that authenticity. It. As a matter of fact, when our video went viral in 2013, we were doing $8 million a year within three days. Our systems weren't talking to each other within three days because of course, we had sold all of our inventory and we were $5 million in back order. I finally had to cut off the orders because, you know, I knew I wasn't gonna be able to ship because we were. We had doubled our business within three days.
- [31:50]
B
And what are the total sales still
- [31:51]
C
date now we do over 150 million a year.
- [31:54]
B
150 million a year since 2013.
- [31:56]
C
Yeah. Wow. And we've built a. Like I said, a brand. Like, it's not like a product. Okay. So what we do is we literally sit and focus on how can we be. How can we. We call her her, how can we support her and how can we support her expression in the world? How can we do that? And for example, when that video came out, we were like, oh, my gosh, you know, I'm not gonna be. I thought we were sunk. I'm like, we're not gonna be able ship you product for six months. Months. Like, we're done. You know, nobody's gonna wait. They're all gonna want their money back. We're screwed. And people are like, what do we do? And I'm like, we tell the truth. And they're like, what do you mean we tell the truth? And I said, we write them an email and we say we got caught with our pants down. Our systems weren't talking. We took your money. We don't know when we're going to be able to ship. If you want, you can get a refund. And we wrote it real funny and limber, you know, like we do. And I don't even think we had 10 people.
- [32:52]
B
I was gonna say what your breakage was. Nothing.
- [32:54]
C
Nothing. And they were like, oh, my God. It went from we hate you, you stole our money. I didn't know trolls before then. I'm like, oh, my God. We lived in this amazing world where everybody's so happy to we hate you, you stole our money. I'm like, what? So anyway, but just that, breaking through with truth. They were all like, oh, okay. These people were telling the truth, man. They. They had a blip in business.
- [33:18]
B
Yeah.
- [33:18]
C
And I think people underestimate the value
- [33:20]
B
of that, of just being honest with where you are, man. How, how often do you guys improve the product? Like launch something new, get something new out? Do you feel like there is a rhythm to it? Do you feel like it's been too long? Are you ever worried you're changing just for the sake of change?
- [33:37]
C
We've never improved or changed potpourri.
- [33:41]
B
It's just the same product, same scent, same everything.
- [33:43]
C
We do different scents.
- [33:44]
B
Different scents. Okay.
- [33:45]
C
Yeah. So we do like a scent of the year and then we do a throwback of a fan favorite from back in the day that we've cut. We do that. We're looking now more at different methods. For example, we have a little pocket sprayer we just launched wipes that's probably going to double our business in this next year. The wipes are amazing. They're highest flushability, all natural. Again, the standards are just beyond. Right. It's like if we're going to make a wipe, we're going to make the best wipe on the market that you can actually freaking flush. What a concept. If you say flushable, but no offense to anybody else out there, but we now look at how can we distribute poo pourri into other areas, into other forms. Yeah, but we're not going to change that formula.
- [34:34]
B
We're not going to change.
- [34:35]
C
It works too well.
- [34:35]
B
It works too well. Okay, so how many people are trying to cut? Obviously you were super blue sea when you came back.
- [34:41]
C
We have hundreds of people that have knocked us off.
- [34:43]
B
Yeah, you were, you were wide open. We're the first. How important it is. So again, if you're not a great product, you're not going to stay on top. But how important is it to be first?
- [34:56]
C
Well, I think if you're. It depends if you're committed to holding the line and to being aggressive, being the first and defending the brand. I think it's the best to be the first.
- [35:12]
B
What do you mean, defending the brand?
- [35:14]
C
Man, I have sent so many letters with people. For example, I Had one of the. A major company. And when our video went viral, we get an email from one of the big guys. I won't call them out here. They should be embarrassed. But we had to hand in her order. So one of my employees came, it was actually my niece, and she said, she said, aunt Susie, she's from Arkansas. Should we be selling XYZ company our product? And I said, what? And she goes, they, I looked it up and it's their research and development center and they've ordered every one of your SKUs. So I called my attorney, I sent the CEO a letter. I said, go ahead, go ahead and knock me off when you do. This is going to be front page news, man. Go ahead. So I've been very aggressive in protecting the brand and defending the category that I created.
- [36:05]
B
Yeah, right. Well, at this point, I mean, you must have announced counsel. That doesn't nothing but this all day.
- [36:11]
C
Yeah, I mean, they're always doing that, you know, and it's like, I believe in a free market. I believe in competition. I don't believe in copying me.
- [36:20]
B
Are you having any direct, like straight up copying from like China? Are you getting any of that?
- [36:24]
C
Yeah, sometimes we go after Amazon shows
- [36:26]
B
up, like, who's this store selling our product? And it's completely just.
- [36:29]
C
Yeah, not at all you, but it says pretty aggressive after it. And that's what I mean. Like, if you're going to be first, you got to really defend. You got to keep that stake in the ground and you got to spend a lot offensively and defensively offending it.
- [36:42]
B
What do you think you spend more on marketing or defending?
- [36:45]
C
Oh, marketing for sure.
- [36:46]
B
Okay, cool.
- [36:47]
C
Yeah. Because you know that the defensive game is not the game. It's what you have to do to maintain. Right. You need to go out and keep broadening the awareness. Right. And letting people know you're still relevant and you're still here and you still care. So we spend way more in marketing.
- [37:06]
B
So with your, with your adhd, your, your hummingbird energy, if you will, as you presented it earlier, is how do you stay. How do you. How do you A, stay interested in the businesses you've built and B, what's next?
- [37:22]
C
I say interested in that. I'm a creative, so I'm always looking at the next marketing campaign. For example, you know, I'm the one who found, you know, the people that did our first campaign. And then all of a sudden I'm on Virgin flight and I see their song and I'm like, let's write a song and Make a music video. And they're like, we can't make a music video. I'm like, why not? So, you know, we write a song, make a music video. So I'm always keeping my creative juices flowing within that aspect of marketing now. Drive my people crazy. Right. Because I take those swings. You know, it's like. And actually we're getting back. I did outsource my company to executives because I got burnout.
- [37:59]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [38:00]
C
So that didn't work so well. So I've just taken back over.
- [38:03]
B
Why did that fail?
- [38:05]
C
Because they don't take the swings. You do. So the brand starts being, you know, they take safe bets. The problem with safe bets is you
- [38:15]
B
end up with safe results.
- [38:19]
C
I was getting ready to say some brands out there, but you know what I'm saying?
- [38:22]
B
Yeah. I mean, that's. I mean, yeah, if you take. If you always stay safe, you.
- [38:27]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [38:27]
B
Take some chances.
- [38:28]
C
Yeah. So we're getting back now to taking the big swings and it feels really good and it's really energizing.
- [38:34]
B
All right, so let me ask you this. If you took a big swing that turned out to be catastrophically bad, would you do it any other way? Would you look back and say we should have played it safe and written it out? No, because you just. At this point, you don't care. You just want to play.
- [38:47]
C
Exactly.
- [38:48]
B
This is a game.
- [38:49]
C
Yeah. I'll tell you what's cost more is the period when I didn't take the swings.
- [38:54]
B
What were you doing? What were you doing during that time?
- [38:56]
C
I moved to Ojai. I was gonna move to Kauai. I was like, I'm out, people. After the pandemic, I'm like. And, you know, honestly, I'd had so much publicity and there's so much. I turned down big movie offers and books, and I was like, man, I wish I could sell the rights to my name so I could live. Because kind of it became, with Verbal's last minute deals, you can save over $50 on your spring getaway. So whether it's a mountain escape city break or a week at the beach, there's still time to get great discounts. Book your next day Now. Average savings, $72. Select homes only came a thing.
- [39:29]
B
Yeah.
- [39:30]
C
And people start thinking you're a big deal. And that's. That's bad.
- [39:34]
B
Yeah. Bad for who?
- [39:35]
C
Bad for you, because you start believing you're a big deal and then it's all downhill. Right. So I. I'm like, you know what? No, no, no, I don't Want that because people knock people off of podiums when they're big deals. Okay. So I need to humble myself and get out of here. So I turned down all those. Also knew it wasn't a rags to riches story. I'm like, this is more than that. I don't know what it is, but I know it's not this. And that's what they always wanted to present. So I was like, yeah, no, I'm not going to tell that story because I don't think money's everything.
- [40:03]
B
Yeah.
- [40:04]
C
You know, it's like life, money, success. What is success? Who determines success? Right. Only you can. And that's not always matched up to money. Usually not.
- [40:15]
B
No, no, I agree. People ask me what my definition of success is all the time and the answer is pretty simple. It's the ability to whatever I want to do, whenever I want to do it.
- [40:23]
C
Yeah.
- [40:23]
B
And if that means coming in here and helping people get better at what they do every day, then that's what I want to do that day.
- [40:28]
C
Right.
- [40:28]
B
And that's, you know, but I don't have to do that every day if I don't want to. Which is, which is lovely.
- [40:32]
C
When that's your version.
- [40:33]
B
Yeah, it's my version.
- [40:34]
C
Somebody else might be a second grade school teacher.
- [40:36]
B
100%.
- [40:37]
C
They're like, I have had a success. I've had a full life. I've sat here and taught these students and made, you know, an impact in these students life. You know, I was just at my husband's, I just met his fourth grade teacher right. At his grandmother's. Anyway, it was just so fun. She had been a teacher her whole life. She was so proud.
- [40:57]
B
I just love that, you know, that
- [40:58]
C
she made an impact. So that to her is success.
- [41:01]
B
Well, let's talk about that because I would think that you're pro, I mean, with the level of success that you have, there's got to be some sort of an inkling in you to want to mentor that next generation of. I don't want to pigeonhole it and say women that come from a similar background, but just because I think that's naive. But there's got to be a need in you to want to foster that, that entrepreneurial spirit and others. And how are you doing that? Obviously your kids.
- [41:24]
C
Yeah.
- [41:25]
B
How are you doing that? And others.
- [41:27]
C
Mine is not particularly an entrepreneurial spirit because just like I said, that may not be everyone's expression. Right. But definitely if a business is, if being an entrepreneur is in your purpose, that's great. My daughter's not an entrepreneur. She's a screenwriter and director. And she does really well. Right. She just graduated with her master's from Tisch. And one of my sons is a copywriter that lives on 10 acres and has my two grandkids that run around the yard naked. He's a total hippie. He's a success to himself.
- [42:02]
B
Yeah.
- [42:03]
C
The other one is one of the top microgreen growers in the US So I like whatever you want to do and turns you on and light you up. That's what I want to promote in the world. And I do that a few ways. I take it very seriously. I'm 62. I'm going to leave a legacy here. What's that legacy going to be? It's not going to be money. It's going to be some sort of impact I've made in people's lives. I teach a course called a live OS which stands for Abundance Lives in Vibrational Energy. And I talk about. I help people transform their lives. And that's what people don't understand. They think Poo Pourri. Oh. It's this product and works really great. I was explaining earlier that we have three words that are the basis of Poo Pourri, and it's defy, liberate, and transform. And that's what we're always looking at. Right. Defying situations, liberating people, and transforming situations. So that's what I'm passionate about. That's my side gig.
- [42:55]
B
That's the side gig.
- [42:56]
C
Yeah.
- [42:56]
B
How do people. How do people find that course?
- [42:57]
C
If they want to know, they can look on my website. Susiebatiste.com I was grateful. I just taught a class at Harvard
- [43:05]
B
on good for you.
- [43:06]
C
Intuition and discernment. Yeah. But leadership and spirituality. Who would I of thought? Right? Yeah. So I'm very, very, very passionate about people doing what lights them up. Whatever that is.
- [43:18]
B
Yeah. Good for you.
- [43:19]
C
Cobbler.
- [43:20]
B
Not bad for a girl from Arkansas without a college education. Gets to teach at Harvard.
- [43:25]
C
And you want to know why? Because I got to grow up in a very dysfunctional household. When you look at dysfunction. But the reason it was dysfunctional is because the lack of creat. My dad was a musician who wrote songs for Elvis. Roy Orbison wears black sunglasses because of him. Very successful. Quit music and then ended up being an alcoholic. Diagnosed later in his life, bipolar. My mother was an artist that won. Right. She never fulfilled her art. So after I was born, so I got to watch these people not pursue what was inside of them. And it was tragic.
- [44:02]
B
Yeah.
- [44:03]
C
You know and what I'd heard someone say that the amount of energy it takes for a, like a fetus to grow is like equivalent to an atomic bomb. I've never been able to prove that. I need to do some research. But a lot of energy, right? So if you think about creative life force, you have this idea or this passion inside in for you. If you don't express that, it goes somewhere and it usually goes sideways into some sort of addiction, right? Some sort of weird manifestation.
- [44:34]
B
You're trying to backfill that hole that's in you for some reason.
- [44:37]
C
So my passion goes back from seeing and for me, even discovering what brings me alive and doing that and seeing that. If we all just went a little more towards that, whatever that is, being a school teacher, being a, you know, radio host, being a whatever, it doesn't matter, whatever lights you up, then I think we would just have a better world, man.
- [44:59]
B
Here's the problem with that. And not, not that I'm contradicting what you just said, but when you look at social media today and all these kids are just filled with this non stop images of here's my Lambo, here's this, here's this, here's this. And it's so materialistic. I think that this next generation coming up is going to get caught more on the hamster wheel of I just have to do something I don't love as long as it makes money. What would you say to those people?
- [45:25]
C
I would say you've been programmed in a society. Watch the Matrix. You're in it.
- [45:31]
B
You're in the Matrix.
- [45:32]
C
Yeah. You've been programmed. You're a part of the machine. It might be good to maybe think about that.
- [45:40]
B
You know, it's, it's. Yeah.
- [45:42]
C
You know, I think we're gonna get deep.
- [45:44]
B
Yeah. No, I mean, I, I'm with you. You know, my son just turned 18 and I wrote him a letter for his 18th birthday. My mom did, we all did. And one of the things that I put in there for advice I can give you for life is, you know, question everything and look for when, when you, when you are presented with a point of view on a subject, the first thing you should do is look for the counterpoint of view and then try to find the truth somewhere in the middle. Because I think that that type of thinking does you well. And I think so much of society today is trapped in an echo chamber of their own making. You know, you, you say something out loud and all of a sudden that's all you see on Twitter. That's the only type of news you get. That's all you get. And it's just reinforcing these beliefs that are not. And usually the ones that get reinforced the most are not the ones that are the most healthy for you. So if. Let's get deep Alpha business, you know, I mean, again, we're just pretending like we met at a bar. So if you could change anything about how our society functions, what would it be?
- [46:39]
C
It. Yeah. It would be. Start operating more internally than externally. So the talk that I or the class that I taught at Harvard, I was telling these people, like, you're going to be in rooms I'll never get the privilege of being in. You know, they're Fulbright scholars and they're all, you know, who knows what kind of. They're making policy, Right? And I said that what I've realized, the decisions I made in my tiny company, the ones that are the hardest to live with, are the ones that compromised my integrity, right? Of where I feel like I sold out because I wanted something thing more money, success. I was afraid, right? The pressure, right. I thought I. I convinced myself it was the right thing to do. But then years later, I'm still living with that. Did it kill millions of people? Billions? No. Right. It was just that internal compromise that still hurts. And the toss that I had for them is, you got AI now making all these decisions and to stop and pause when you feel some sort of contraction and just ask yourself a question like, what am I trying to override? What am I trying to make work? And why? Is it because I'll look good? Is it because I'm trying to. I want something, I want money. If I just sell out. This time a woman in the class tried to convince me that sometimes these small compromises work out. I'm like, no. Small compromises compound into a very weak system. And you guys are going to be out there making decisions for us. It might be good to start thinking inside, what are those values that you have? And then start using that as sort of the. The goal or whatever, what I'm saying. Or the barrier, right. For where that you go with that particular decision.
- [48:31]
B
I think that's. I think that in its essence is the problem. I think if you were to ask most people what. What their personal values are, they can't define them.
- [48:39]
C
They can't. We're actually getting ready to do that in a project because people do.
- [48:44]
B
They don't know. They don't know, what do you stand for? What do you believe? And people are like, I don't know what they believe.
- [48:50]
C
They were taught to believe.
- [48:51]
B
I was going to say it's either trump bad or, you know, you know, whatever it is, it's just whatever is being regurgitated to them. No, whatever it is, I don't know. You know, that's. That's what they. That's what people say they believe. And it's like, do is you're repeating something you heard. That's not a belief system.
- [49:07]
C
What happens in school.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah. They get indoctrinated. Yeah. Which is a.
- [49:12]
C
Learn material you memorize.
- [49:14]
B
Which makes. Look, our education system is completely.
- [49:17]
C
Oh, it's great.
- [49:18]
B
It's not. It's nonsensical anymore. The stuff that my kids learn. And you know, again, I got one that's valedictorian and it did exceptionally well in School and 35 Act. And I have another one that my daughter, you know, she still gets straight A's, but she's got work at it.
- [49:34]
C
Yeah.
- [49:34]
B
And the only separation between my son and my daughter, the only differential is he has a better memory.
- [49:41]
C
That's it.
- [49:41]
B
That's it. Her cognitive is. His cognitive is not higher than hers.
- [49:45]
C
Right.
- [49:45]
B
He just has a better memory. And so, you know, when she always likes to say things like, oh, he's smarter. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. She has a better memory.
- [49:51]
C
Right.
- [49:51]
B
That's it. He can just store things better and.
- [49:55]
C
But what does he think about. We're in a world now where intelligence is not scarce.
- [50:00]
B
We talk about that, we talk about that. It's a commodity now. And it's like, you got something that can out think. Well, the CEO of Nvidia came out and was like, they asked him, they said, what do you value in people? And he says, you know, five years ago I would have said smart, but now it's a commodity. I can turn on a computer and have smart. So I've always tried to teach my kids that, you know, the best thing they can do in five to 10 years is be able to sit across the table like this and look at somebody right in the eyes and connect with them on a personal level and make them feel heard and seen and moved. Because if that. That skill is going to be in short supply between a generation that walks around staring at a phone.
- [50:37]
C
Yeah.
- [50:38]
B
And that's what we've tried to do. And I've always said it's like with my kids, it's like the running joke and it's coming true. I've been saying this since they were literally probably 10 and 8. I said Hayden will probably grow up and go to an Ivy League school, which is on the. On the table. And he'll get a wonderful job working a beautiful building owned by my daughter. And I've always said that because she is. She's a hustler. She always has been. I mean, you know, I. I'm gonna make her watch this and can go or. But sure, I can go. And my son's genius. He's really, really smart, and he'll do amazing things, too, so I don't want to take anything away from him. But my daughter. It's like when she was 8 years old, she's setting up a bootleg face painting operation at the. At the winter carnival at the Catholic church. And I'm like, what you can't do? And she's like, well, they were too slow, so there was an opportunity. And like. Like all these little things. Yeah. And she's loaning, you know, like when she was 8 years old, because they own the vending machines at all of our. Our businesses here have always been their businesses. And I needed change for a hundred dollar bill because the maids were coming the next day, and my wife needed to tip them, and I didn't have it. I said, roma, go get daddy change. No, Roma, go give me change. So she goes upstairs begrudgingly and comes back down, hands me a stack of bills, and I count it. I'm like, roma, this is $96.
- [51:47]
C
She's like, yeah, it was your charge.
- [51:49]
B
She's like, service charge. So she 8 years old, she's charged me juice, and my wife didn't even look up for the magazine. Boy. It's just like, that is your daughter. And I'm like. And she looks at me. She goes, would you rather go to the store? I was like, no, I would not
- [52:01]
C
charge you an atm.
- [52:02]
B
Yeah. She's like, I'd rather not go to the store. She's like, well, then accept the service. I accepted the service charge. I paid Juice at eight years old. So, yeah, that's how she thinks. And you know what? And I know I. It's great. I will never have to worry about her. I will never have to worry about her. She will always find her way, which is great. And so will my son, which is good.
- [52:18]
C
Yes.
- [52:19]
B
All right.
- [52:19]
C
And let's go back real quick. One thing that I would. That I really think is going to help us in the future is our own innate human intelligence, which is that intuition that the gut. Any super, mega successful, multibillionaire person I've ever met, you're talking to them, they're going to go, you know, you look at something, they'd be like. My gut tells me they all operate from the gut. It's such a weird gap, right? Most people, you have to have that in order to navigate, but people don't promote it or talk about it. So there's big gap in workers that are trained right in the middle. It's the people that can break out and have the courage over time. It's like building a muscle to trust that. And I actually believe that's going to be our defense against AI. It's like, AI can outthink us, man. That ain't gonna work no more. No, I know, but you know what? But we do have. AI doesn't stay up at night and it doesn't ponder a question. It doesn't regret something eight years from now. Have that within ourselves.
- [53:24]
B
And if you don't have it, you can marry it. Because I'll tell you, I. I don't. I wish I could say that my gut was always right. No, I do.
- [53:32]
C
Yeah.
- [53:32]
B
But my wife is an empath.
- [53:34]
C
Yes.
- [53:34]
B
And I have had exact. Literally. I mean, look, we've had a lot of failures. And things go good and things go bad. I've had two catastrophic business failures in my life. Like seven figure loss type failures. And both times my wife told me not to do the deals because she didn't like the people.
- [53:49]
C
Yep.
- [53:50]
B
Both times she's like, I do not get a good vibe from these people. And I'm like, I get all the numbers. I. On the math of the deal, I get this. She's like, I don't like the people. So now we have a deal. Before I do business with anybody, I'm like, my wife's got to get a look at you.
- [54:03]
C
Yeah.
- [54:04]
B
And we do. And I write. I'm like, sniff them out. You tell me. And she'll hang out with them for a couple, we'll go to dinner, the end of it. She's like, okay, yeah, they're okay.
- [54:11]
C
Yeah.
- [54:12]
B
But I do not. I mean, look, the first time, I can't do that. No, they can't. The first time. Yeah. The second time, now we have a trend. I don't do any more business.
- [54:19]
C
It ain't happening.
- [54:20]
B
No, she. Nope. No, it's not. She doesn't get a look at you. Doesn't. Doesn't check. Check a box with you. I don't do it. So I totally agree with what you're saying.
- [54:28]
C
That happened with my husband right now. One of his really Dear friends, I was like, dude, I ain't doing business with him. Like, number one, he cheats on his partner. Like, you think if he cheats on his partner, he ain't gonna cheat you 100%?
- [54:43]
B
Yeah, one.
- [54:44]
C
I'm like, 100%. That is a no, man.
- [54:48]
B
And both of these dudes.
- [54:50]
C
Exactly. You think he ain't go screw you? That should be his most fundamental relationship.
- [54:57]
B
Same thing.
- [54:58]
C
If they're gonna cheat on that, what you think they're gonna do to you, man?
- [55:01]
B
Same thing. Without question. And I don't think twice about it.
- [55:03]
C
You don't have to be a high moral person to figure out how that's gonna work out.
- [55:07]
B
Not even think twice about it. Yeah, I get it.
- [55:09]
C
I'm like, yep, nope, ain't happening.
- [55:11]
B
I get it.
- [55:12]
C
You ain't managing my money. We ain't going into business with you. We're not doing none of that. We're gonna go the other direction.
- [55:18]
B
Years and years and years ago, a friend of mine who wound up being in a very large. I'm friends with a lot of different musicians. I've always just been around musicians. And some of them became very, very, very, very, very famous. And many, many years ago, a band that was coming up that is now super famous, was being managed by another friend of ours. And our friend that was managing them cheated on his wife, wound up in a divorce and are my friend that became very famous, fired him as their manager. And this was before this is, I mean, this is 20 years ago. But this was before. But this was before I kind of had. I wasn't married at times. I didn't get it.
- [55:56]
C
Yeah, right.
- [55:57]
B
I was still single. Like, how could you do that to. Like how could you do that? He just lost his wife. And now this is. Now this has happened. Like, how'd you do that? And now after being married for almost 20 years, I totally get it. I totally get it.
- [56:10]
C
It's a, it's a, it's a moral bar.
- [56:12]
B
It is.
- [56:13]
C
It should be your fundamental, you know, and if you're going to do that, man. No. So, yeah, and I think women can sense that and feel that. Right. But also men can too.
- [56:25]
B
Yeah.
- [56:26]
C
I was going to tell you that one of my friends, multi billionaire, at one point in one of his companies worth $50 billion and self made, no investors, that sort of thing. But literally the most analytical person I've ever seen in my life, like supply chain, analytical, right in his head. But he was coming and helping me with my business just as a friend. And his team Would tell him, here's the data. And he'd say, yeah, but my gut says. And I pulled him aside and I'm like, hey, what are you doing? This is way before I started my, you know, gut intuition thing. And he was like, you know, data can only get you so much. And there's some sort of, like, little sense in there that you gotta kind of figure out if that data's correct. Because whoever's presenting you the data has an agenda. They want you to see it the way. So they look good. Right. And not that they're malicious. It's human nature. We all want to look good, but numbers can be rearranged. So anyway, I learned from him. Literally one of the most analytical in his head people I ever met. He does access that, you know, so you can have both. Yeah. So I bet you are more intuitive. You probably don't slow down enough to feel it.
- [57:36]
B
Yeah, I'm just, you know, ears rolling, going, no. Yeah, you take. You take this personality test or whatever, like the disc test. I'm like 99D. 99. I have no risk aversion, which is bad. And then. And then the C is very.
- [57:48]
C
Taking the Colby test.
- [57:49]
B
I. It's been a long time. I don't remember. Yeah, it's me, too.
- [57:53]
C
Highest risk.
- [57:54]
B
I could care less. I'm like, if it looks good, let's go and we'll figure it out. I'm the same way.
- [57:58]
C
Totally.
- [57:58]
B
Which has served me very, very well.
- [58:00]
C
Exactly.
- [58:00]
B
But also, I just talked about losing over a million dollars twice. So, you know. Yes. But then again, if you don't lose over a million bucks a couple times, are you entrepreneuring hard enough? Like, are you really. Are you really doing it?
- [58:11]
C
You're not taking the swings.
- [58:12]
B
You're not taking the swings. You're not luckily escaped. I've escaped ever having massive financial turmoil. I never. I never take a swing that's going to take me off the board. Thank God. So that's been very good to me.
- [58:23]
C
One more.
- [58:24]
B
One more question, because obviously, and there's got to be something out there that is near and dear to you when you have this kind of success. A lot of my friends at this level do have like a built in charitable arm component into their business to have a purpose driven business. What does that look like for you and how does that go?
- [58:41]
C
So a lot of this course alive, Os I was telling you, I teach the personal development course. I did a lot of scholarships, more than 50% scholarships. I've had women in prison that were in jail that Were homeless that now have jobs. It's amazing how people can change their lives with a little bit of education,
- [59:01]
B
a little bit of belief.
- [59:02]
C
You were programmed, right? You were. By society, by your trauma, by whatever, what people told you. You can change that programming. You have the ability to do that. Here's how you do it. And it's very easy. So that is a passion of mine. It'll be coming out at a bigger that. There's a new iteration of that coming out that I can't talk about yet.
- [59:21]
B
Okay. But really, we can't break it live here. Come on. We got like six weeks. Okay, six weeks. Six weeks.
- [59:28]
C
I'll give you a little hint.
- [59:29]
B
All right.
- [59:30]
C
I own the domain, the Universe Dot com.
- [59:33]
B
Okay. Wow.
- [59:34]
C
Yeah.
- [59:34]
B
Okay. That was probably not cheap, I'm guessing anyway.
- [59:36]
C
Yeah. So I'm building the universe, which is kind of funny, but we're getting ready to start a fund called the Sovereign Fund. I just went through a thing where in some trusting top M and A firms in the world and other very top attorneys, I ended up in a loan where despite me making all payments, never being late, the lender tried to take my company last year.
- [60:04]
B
Oh, boy.
- [60:04]
C
Because of a technical default. Right. So I'm opening up a 501C3 called the Sovereign Fund, and it's financial literacy and legal literacy for entrepreneurs, specifically women. But I'm sure we'll open up to every entrepreneur, but we're focusing on women just to let them know the things you need to look out for. And also we'll have a fund where they can actually get. We have a. I have a few law firms, they're giving pro bono work where we'll be able to help women. I just spent 4.2. Over $4.2 million last year in legal fees. Most people don't have that luxury.
- [60:44]
B
No. That sinks most companies if that happens.
- [60:47]
C
Oh, it seems right. I'm very, very, very lucky that I could fight at that level. But I'm very passionate about giving away free resources and potentially helping people. Just to understand that attorneys don't have your back.
- [61:02]
B
No.
- [61:02]
C
You think they do?
- [61:04]
B
Yeah.
- [61:05]
C
Accountants don't always have your back.
- [61:08]
B
I would say. I'm going to caveat that by saying in house counsel, I think has your back because it's irrelevant to them with
- [61:15]
C
the bill in house.
- [61:16]
B
In house counsel, that's. We have in house counsel. So I'm going to say irrelevant to them.
- [61:21]
C
Okay. That's fair.
- [61:22]
B
Billable hours. Yeah, you're probably right.
- [61:25]
C
You know, there's a game. It's a racket.
- [61:26]
B
It is.
- [61:27]
C
It is like anything else the attorneys in this ordeal made for. And I kept hearing, like, literally. You're talking about literally specialists and hostile takeovers at $4.2 million. I'm hiring the best attorneys in the United States.
- [61:42]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [61:42]
C
Recording.
- [61:43]
B
Of course. Yeah.
- [61:43]
C
Okay. There's thousands.
- [61:44]
B
You got the OJ Team by yourself.
- [61:45]
C
Exactly. There's thousands of dollars an hour. And all I kept hearing is, we've never seen this in 30 years. Like, we don't know how this is happening. I'm like, it's happening.
- [61:53]
B
Yeah, it's happening.
- [61:54]
C
Okay. So we need to prevent someone else from that happening. We need to educate people. The problem is, which I was also talking to the Harvard class, if you guys are in policy, please. The New York lending laws favor the lender. They do not favor the person that's in the loan. And you get 176 page loan agreement. Like, who's going to read through that whole damn thing? You know, you just, you hire the best. You think that you're going to be okay. And that's not true.
- [62:19]
B
And it's not there.
- [62:20]
C
No, it's true. Going to start that blasting out some information, man, so that people can start seeing what is possible.
- [62:26]
B
All right, well, not to be morbid, but last question. What's the succession plan for all of this money?
- [62:32]
C
You know, that's really funny because, you know, I get with wealth planners and you know, they're like, are you going to leave it to your kids? And all I ask is, have you ever seen a good trust fund kid?
- [62:41]
B
Nope. That's. That's why I ask. Oh. I tell my kids they're broke all the time. I'm like, daddy's rich, you're broke.
- [62:47]
C
Have you ever seen any real change from any nonprofit? Yeah. So that's the dilemma, right? That's how you know that money's not going to solve the problem. Yeah, I don't know.
- [62:59]
B
You don't know yet.
- [63:00]
C
That's why I'm not chasing money anymore. I'm an unfortunate position, but I literally almost lost everything last year, but still didn't matter. I was like, yeah, I don't care. You know, we'll. I'll do something else.
- [63:10]
B
Like, how do you keep it? Like, how do you keep the kids in check?
- [63:12]
C
They're not thinking like, oh, I'm not there. It's. They also real.
- [63:18]
B
Fair enough.
- [63:19]
C
You know, and it's just. That's how I know. It's just not good. The only thing I do think that you could do with the money. Let's just say as a family, if you read the book, what would the Rockefellers do? You know, family bank. They can borrow money from it. You can do that generationally, I think that may work.
- [63:36]
B
I think I was more not so much about asset protection. That wasn't the question. I think the question was more, what do you want? What impact do you want that money to have on your kids? I think that was more my question. And I like your answer of have you ever seen a good, trustworthy kid? I've known a few and the answer is probably no.
- [63:53]
C
No, you have. I mean, I know kind of a decent one, you know, but generally speaking, I, I haven't. You know, you look at people that win the lottery. Right. Money's not going to solve the problem. I would rather, I'm looking at things now, how can we utilize that money keeping in almost like the, the, the family bank, but in other areas where that can continue servicing entrepreneurs. Right. Or things where that can keep growing and being a value more than going to my children.
- [64:22]
B
Well, I think one of my favorite.
- [64:23]
C
Hasn't made me popular.
- [64:24]
B
I think one of my favorite things that I heard was, you know, you want your kids to have enough money to do whatever they want, but not so much they can do nothing. That's what it was. And I think that's the dilemma that any, any. Obviously you're a much different level with that thought process than I am, but I think it's still something we all struggle with when you have some sort of success. So.
- [64:43]
C
Yeah, unless I, I think that there is a level of entitlement that I've created. And also there's a personality type. You know, I have three children. They're at different. You know, I have one who is very frugal, saves their money. I won't talk about gender because I have two boys and a girl. Just call them out. One's very frugal, saves their money.
- [65:04]
B
I think they know who they are.
- [65:06]
C
Yeah, they know who they are. The other ones, you know, one's blown it, one doesn't care. It's just like. Yeah, I just don't think money is going to help that. I would rather put systems in place that can help people. You know, I never really got that leg up.
- [65:22]
B
Yeah.
- [65:23]
C
And I'm not sure leg up would have helped me, but it would have been good to be able to have
- [65:27]
B
resources, education, the knowledge.
- [65:29]
C
Yeah.
- [65:30]
B
Place to get help if you need it.
- [65:32]
C
Yeah.
- [65:32]
B
Again, it's not about the money. It's about it's about the.
- [65:34]
C
It's about it.
- [65:35]
B
I think it's. And I think with what you're doing and the way the vibe you get, you give off. It's not just some. The information. It's not just the information. Right. It's having somebody believe in you that you can do this. And a lot of people don't have that.
- [65:47]
C
They don't. And that is an internal state of being.
- [65:50]
B
Yeah.
- [65:50]
C
And that's what I'm voting.
- [65:51]
B
Cool.
- [65:52]
C
I love that humanity.
- [65:53]
B
I love that. Well, if they want to find you, how do they find you? Susie batiste.com susiebatiste.com well, Susie, thank you so much for coming in. I, I love the story. It was great. Thank you for the knowledge that you shared. It was so much. And listen, if you listen to that today, if that didn't inspire you, I have no idea what's going to. But if you have a dream, if you have something that you think could change the world, if you have something that you think people might want, the difference between the people that make it and the people that don't is normally just that first step. Just step into the unknown. Give it a try. Bet on yourself because nobody else is coming to do it for you. We'll see you next week.