From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation

Summary

Podcast Summary: Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - "From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation"

Introduction

In the latest episode of "Escaping the Drift," host John Gafford welcomes Mike C-Roc, a renowned expert in personal branding and podcasting. This episode delves deep into Mike's transformative journey from a tumultuous early life to achieving remarkable success in the world of podcasting and entrepreneurship. Through candid conversations, Mike shares his insights, strategies, and the mindset shifts that propelled him from chaos to becoming a leading figure in his field.

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1. Early Life and Overcoming Adversity

Mike C-Roc's story begins with his challenging upbringing outside Philadelphia in a large, broken family. As the eldest of eight siblings, Mike was thrust into a caregiver role at a young age, dealing with parental conflicts, substance abuse, and the instability of a fragmented household.

Michael C-Roc (03:59): "I grew up outside of Philly and in the mushroom country. It was an environment filled with brokenness, witnessing drug addiction, alcoholism, anxiety, depression, and constant custody battles."

Mike's resilience was forged through these early experiences, shaping his ability to navigate and overcome adversity. He recounts the emotional turmoil of switching between homes due to his parents' tumultuous relationship and the harsh realities he faced, including verbal abuse from his stepmother.

Michael C-Roc (40:32): "I use that scene for my life. Anytime I needed it, I just fed off that."

2. Finding an Outlet in Sports and Early Entrepreneurship

Sports became Mike's sanctuary, providing an escape from his chaotic home life. His dedication to football earned him a scholarship to a Division III college in Maryland, where he honed his discipline and leadership skills. However, despite his hard work and athletic prowess, Mike faced limitations in his sports career, prompting him to pivot towards other ventures.

Michael C-Roc (03:29): "I played in college, but I realized that I wasn't going to go anywhere after college with football."

During college, Mike ventured into the restaurant business, working as a bartender and waiter with aspirations of owning his own establishment. This period marked his initial foray into entrepreneurship, although it was soon overshadowed by the allure of college parties and the transient lifestyle they offered.

3. Transition to Real Estate and Mortgage Business

After leaving college without completing his degree, Mike embarked on a career in home sales. His early experiences in in-home sales, despite his disdain for the role, taught him invaluable skills in building rapport, presenting, and selling—skills that would later underpin his success in real estate and mortgage brokering.

Michael C-Roc (10:43): "But it cut my teeth in a lot of things, like building rapport with strangers, presenting. That's where you learn how to sell money."

Mike's tenure in home sales lasted nine years, during which he cultivated a strong work ethic and a keen understanding of the real estate market. His decision to transition into real estate was motivated by witnessing friends achieve significant financial success in the field, inspiring him to believe in his own potential.

Michael C-Roc (11:14): "I believe in myself, man. I have a firm belief in myself. If I see somebody, a human being doing something and I want to do it, I think I can do it."

4. Lessons from Mentorship and Navigating the Industry

Mike credits much of his professional growth to the mentorship he received from a key figure in the mortgage industry. This mentor imparted crucial business philosophies, such as prioritizing customer satisfaction over contractual obligations.

Michael C-Roc (13:22): "If you have somebody that pays us and we find out that they're not aligned, we just give them their money back and move on."

This approach not only fostered strong client relationships but also taught Mike the importance of aligning with like-minded individuals to minimize drama and maintain creative energy.

5. Embracing Personal Branding and Podcasting

A pivotal moment in Mike's career came when he realized the power of personal branding through podcast appearances. An initial invitation to be a podcast guest sparked an epiphany about the potential of consistent media presence in establishing authority and credibility.

Michael C-Roc (21:15): "If I can bottle this, I'll be unstoppable."

Implementing a disciplined approach, Mike committed to appearing on multiple podcasts weekly. This strategy exponentially increased his visibility, leading to over 1,100 guest appearances in five years. By leveraging every interview, repurposing content into clips, and maintaining an omnipresent brand image, Mike solidified his status as a leading voice in his industry.

Michael C-Roc (24:37): "Every show I would go on, within a week or two, I would get on a 15-minute call with the host and I would set it up while I was still here."

6. Building and Scaling the Podcast Agency

Recognizing the efficacy of his podcasting strategy, Mike transitioned into helping others achieve similar success. He founded a podcast agency aimed at assisting entrepreneurs and creatives in amplifying their brands through strategic podcast guesting.

Michael C-Roc (25:39): "Nobody does that. Nobody just tries to create connections by showing genuine interest."

The agency employs a structured approach, including onboarding calls to understand clients' visions, creating tailored press kits, and leveraging warm connections to secure podcast spots. Mike emphasizes the importance of quality over quantity, ensuring that each client aligns with the agency's values and objectives.

Michael C-Roc (30:21): "We have an onboarding call with them to find out their vision, their mission, where they are currently. Because we want to meet them where they are and then take them to the next level."

7. Personal Development and the Rocket Fuel Philosophy

Central to Mike's philosophy is the concept of "Rocket Fuel," a principle derived from his experiences overcoming adversity. This philosophy advocates for transforming setbacks into sources of strength and motivation, enabling individuals to propel themselves toward success.

Michael C-Roc (40:03): "I don't know if this is true or not, but I truly believe now I'm starting to believe this, that we come into this world and we come into a body, but the spirit or whatever it is that operates us is old. It's got information. You heard old souls."

Mike elaborates on how this mindset shift allows him to view challenges as opportunities for growth and narrative-building, akin to a hero's journey in storytelling.

Michael C-Roc (41:01): "Fuel, right? I didn't understand. I was really doing. I was subconscious. But when I hit my 40s and I started, like, really working on myself and find out who I am and what I've been through and where I'm going to go, I started to realize this concept, like this rocket fuel law."

8. Authoring "Rocket Fuel: How to Turn Your Failures into Fuel"

Mike encapsulated his journey and the Rocket Fuel philosophy in his book "Rocket Fuel: How to Turn Your Failures into Fuel." The book serves as a guide for individuals seeking to harness their struggles and transform them into driving forces for personal and professional growth.

Michael C-Roc (45:37): "It's like John Maxwell has his leadership laws. This is the Rocket Fuel law."

The book features a foreword by Grant Cardone, further cementing Mike's credibility and the impactful nature of his message.

9. Family and Raising Grounded Children

Despite his entrepreneurial success, Mike remains deeply committed to his family. He prioritizes instilling values of responsibility, financial literacy, and resilience in his children, ensuring they grow up grounded and capable of navigating life's challenges.

Michael C-Roc (46:44): "I'm very, very hard on my kids at home. Like, I don't beat them or anything like that. I have high expectations. Standards to the point where they're like, you know, you're not like, you know, I'm not trying to be their friend."

Mike's approach includes practical financial education, such as teaching his children to manage credit cards responsibly and encouraging entrepreneurial ventures from a young age.

Michael C-Roc (49:12): "I created my son an LLC. So he's a contractor for our company and so I'm showing him how to do the taxes."

10. Philanthropy and Giving Back

Philanthropy plays a significant role in Mike's life and business ethos. Previously involved with "Believe in Tomorrow," an organization supporting families with terminally ill children, Mike aims to integrate giving into his business model, focusing on helping entrepreneurs connect and succeed while maintaining a commitment to charitable causes.

Michael C-Roc (52:04): "When I was in a mortgage business, we worked with an organization called Believe in Tomorrow... After I got out of the mortgage business and started building my business, everything's going to the business and then we're just helping entrepreneurs and focusing on giving connections and all that."

11. Closing Thoughts and Final Insights

Throughout the episode, Mike emphasizes the importance of mindset, resilience, and strategic branding in achieving success. His journey underscores the transformative power of turning personal challenges into professional advantages, inspiring listeners to adopt a proactive and positive approach to their own lives.

Michael C-Roc (44:26): "The worse it is, the more octane it has."

Mike concludes by reinforcing his commitment to helping others navigate their paths to success, urging listeners to embrace their unique stories and harness their experiences as catalysts for growth.

John Gafford (53:01): "If you didn't get something out of that, there's something wrong with you. Not wrong with me."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Early Adversity:

   Michael C-Roc (03:59): "I grew up outside of Philly and in the mushroom country. It was an environment filled with brokenness, witnessing drug addiction, alcoholism, anxiety, depression, and constant custody battles."

2. Real Estate Transition:

   Michael C-Roc (11:14): "I believe in myself, man. I have a firm belief in myself. If I see somebody, a human being doing something and I want to do it, I think I can do it."

3. Mentorship Lessons:

   Michael C-Roc (13:22): "If you have somebody that pays us and we find out that they're not aligned, we just give them their money back and move on."

4. Personal Branding Revelation:

   Michael C-Roc (21:15): "If I can bottle this, I'll be unstoppable."

5. Rocket Fuel Philosophy:

   Michael C-Roc (40:03): "I truly believe now I'm starting to believe this, that we come into this world and we come into a body, but the spirit or whatever it is that operates us is old. It's got information. You heard old souls."

6. Philanthropic Commitment:

   Michael C-Roc (52:04): "When I was in a mortgage business, we worked with an organization called Believe in Tomorrow... Everything's going to the business and then we're just helping entrepreneurs and focusing on giving connections and all that."

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Conclusion

Mike C-Roc's journey, as explored in this episode of "Escaping the Drift," is a testament to the power of resilience, strategic branding, and purposeful living. From overcoming a challenging childhood to mastering the art of personal branding through podcasting, Mike exemplifies how turning chaos into fuel can lead to extraordinary success. His insights offer valuable lessons for entrepreneurs, creatives, and anyone seeking to escape the drift and forge a path toward meaningful achievement.

Listeners are encouraged to connect with Mike through his Instagram handle @MikeyC.Rock and explore his book "Rocket Fuel: How to Turn Your Failures into Fuel" available on Amazon. For more resources and inspiration, visit www.EscapingtheDrift.com.

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Further Resources:

• Book: Rocket Fuel: How to Turn Your Failures into Fuel by Mike C-Roc
• Website: Escaping the Drift
• Instagram: @MikeyC.Rock

Transcript

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Speak to a real human being. You shouldn't need to shout into the.

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How can I help you? Human service, not automated phone trees.

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Pacific Source Health Plans. We first started, I would work with anybody just to see you have to.

[B]

Do right because you have to.

[A]

And then very, very slowly it started to evolve into a situation where we became exclusive. Yeah, I don't just work with anybody. Not at all. And if we get somebody that pays us and we find out that they're not aligned, we just give them their money back and move on.

[B]

And now, escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the Drift. And it's time to start right now. Back again, back again for another episode of the show that, like I says in the opening, man, gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today, ladies and gents, live in the studio. And it's. This is the biggest advantage of being in Vegas because, dude, at some point all the ballers come rolling through Vegas and when they do, it's easy for me to get them. I wish I could say these people came just for me. They don't. They come for F1. They come for these magical events. But hey, man, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm going to take it. And today in the studio, I got a dude that is. He's. He's probably the foremost expert on building your brand through exactly what I'm doing right now. He is the owner of the brand, the. That podcast. He's a best selling offer. I'm sorry, that one podcast. He's a best selling author and is all around good dude and we're lucky to have him here. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Mikey C. Rock.

[A]

Thank you, John. Hey, listen, I gotta tell you, I flew five hours to come just to see you.

[B]

Just to see me.

[A]

All the other stuff is just like.

[B]

Yes, it's auxiliary. It's auxiliary. Visiting.

[A]

Kill time while I'm waiting to come here.

[B]

Yeah, that whole sphere thing, just kill time. Check that thing Out. What are you gonna do? It's good, dude. So. No, I. Dude, I so appreciate you.

[A]

Coming in yourself, short man.

[B]

I know, I'm just. Listen, it's. It's self deprecation, I think. I think people, it makes me more appealing. I think when I go self deprecation, I can't just go full ego, you know, Brad's got a. Bradley, my buddy Brad Lee's got a. He's got that. That cornered, that market. Cornered, I guess, is what I'm trying to say, man. I didn't chew the neuro gum today. That's showing up easy after a heavy carb lunch, isn't it? Good lord. So, dude, let's talk about. So for those of people that don't know you, let's talk a little bit about your background. Obviously you're very, very successful. What. Where did you grow up? Let's talk about this because I like to get either the, you know, the, the villain or hero origin story, if you will. Where'd you grow up? I mean, talk to me.

[A]

I grew up outside of Philly and in the mushroom country. It's where they most mushrooms grow. And I'm talking about the food.

[B]

Yeah. Not the Grateful Dead mushrooms.

[A]

Nowadays you got to differentiate. Specify. But it was the, you know, the food. Mushrooms and smells like there and just like a horrible like smell when you walk through there because of the manure and fertilizer. But I grew up there and Italian family and eventually made my way down to Maryland to go to college and play football.

[B]

What did mom and dad do?

[A]

My dad was a mason. He had his own business, entrepreneur. And my mom worked for DuPont for years and then took early retirement, became a nurse.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Two separate careers. Cool. Lots of brothers and sisters in the house.

[A]

Yeah. I'm the oldest of eight with broken family.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

Broken family, though. So like it was never any more than four in a house. Oh, wow.

[B]

So question. You obviously had to become, if you're the oldest, you. You immediately went into sort of caregiver mode of your younger. Your younger siblings, I'm assuming, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So at what point would you say, if you had to put an age on it, were you forced to grow up?

[A]

Well, early, because I don't remember my parents ever together. So I came from a lot of brokenness. Like a lot like drug addicts, alcoholic, anxiety, depression, divorce, child support, custody battles. Um, and you had step parents into the mix and their agendas, not getting along with people and just witnessing and watching all this stuff. As a kid, I Mean, ever since I can remember, it's. I thought it was normal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, I mean, like, dude, I can tell you, eight years old, I was a really keen observer of human being, human beings and human behavior. And so I've always been known as being pretty grown up. Immature.

[B]

Yeah. So sports obviously became an outlet for you then.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And you got pretty good at it because you got a, you got a college scholarship to play ball.

[A]

Well, I didn't get a. I went to a Division 3 school, so I was never big enough.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was fast and had a head on me, but yeah, I played in college.

[B]

Okay. Did you finish school?

[A]

No.

[B]

You didn't? Okay. God bless. I mean, look, you know, it's so funny. Let me ask you a question about that while we're talking about that. So is that something you regret? You look back, does that, does that. Always had it grinded on you forever.

[A]

There's. I'll go through seasons where I'll, I'll regret it, but at the end of the day, no. When I got to college, I was playing football, but I realized that it, like I wasn't going to go anywhere after college with football.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then I saw parties. I saw parties I'd never seen before. Coming from a small town, I say outside of Philly, but when I went to high school, it was a small suburban, like not suburban, rural town in Maryland, actually. And when I got to college, I saw like girls, the types of girls that were there at the parties and just that's what caught my attention.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I went down that road, that road of parties. And that was the chase I was on. Chase for the good time, like college and, and courses on that. That was always easy to me.

[B]

What was the hustle?

[A]

I was bored by it.

[B]

Were you hustling in college? What was the hustle?

[A]

No, not until I dropped out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I got in the restaurant business while I was in college and watched. That was when cocktail came out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And were you a flair bartender? Yeah. Oh, man, no, no, not a flare. But I did work. I was a bartender and waiter and yeah, I had like a, you know, vision of start my own restaurant and all this. And then when you're in the restaurant business and you start to party, it's a cash business. Late nights, after you're done at the bar, 2:30, 3:00, you're going to a party and then just, you know, it's just not a good place to be. But that's where I ended up, brother.

[B]

I commiserate with you on all of that. So, first off, like, my. My college outing story, like, it was one of those things where I never told people I didn't finish school. Like, I never announced that. I just let people assume, right? They. They knew that I was at this. You know, they knew I was. I went to school. I. I was there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But they never, like, knew that I didn't finish and I never brought it up. And I got pretty successful in my life. And it got to a point where. Where I got outed was. So I'm sitting there, literally on the first day we're filming the Apprentice. We're sitting there, right? And Trump walks in. He says, this year we're gonna do something a little different. We're doing everything a little different. Uh, this year, what we've done is we've divided you guys into two teams. Half of you have college degrees and half of you do not. Because the ones that don't actually earn twice as much money as the ones that do. So we're going to go street smarts versus book smart. And I'm sitting there in this room going, holy.

[A]

I think I remember that, dude.

[B]

Like. Like, everybody that knows me is gonna, like, it's gonna know. And I'm like, I'm freaking out, right? And it, like, freaking out the whole time. And then literally it came out and it happened. And nobody ever said why.

[A]

Why was that bothering you so much?

[B]

Because I. Because I think it was. You know, everybody has that little bit of imposter sys, that little bit of self doubt, and it was like, man, if they find out, they're going to judge me. And I felt bad about myself for that. Even though didn't hamper anything I ever wanted to do, it always just made me feel bad. I was like, yeah, I thought people were going to, like, fucking out me. And then it didn't happen. Nobody cared, right? Didn't care at all.

[A]

That's. That's the rule, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We always think people care more about us and think about us more than they actually do because nobody's got their own world.

[B]

But nobody's thinking about you. They're thinking about themselves. 100. And then the. And then the restaurant thing, dude. I. At 28 years old, I was involved with several restaurants and bars. And I went to the doctor at 28. Bleeding ulcers.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Doctors. Like, well, what do you do? I'm like, restaurant, bar business. He's like, how many hours you work? I'm like, 120. He's like, what's your diet? I'm like, maker's Market cigarettes. And he's like, you need a life change. Not a. You need a life change or you're just gonna eat your life. And I was done. That was the end of it, man. I got out of everything that I had at that time and was done. Learn how to sell, man.

[A]

A great time. I got to tell you, there were some great times, but there was also, like. It ends up in darkness, man. It.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dark times. Heavy, like. Yeah.

[B]

7Am around somebody's kitchen table.

[A]

Yeah. And then all your friends that are in college leave, go on their mission that they're going on, and you're just like. You're left with everybody else. It's just not on a mission except for the next party. And it's just like, miserable, man.

[B]

Yeah. No, no, no. And misery loves company. Not it.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

So that business. And that's. People talk about what the hardest thing about Las Vegas is, right? Or they want to know, like, why is Nevada so shitty with education? And the truth of it is, is because when I first moved here, it's like everything that you think is normal in the world is exactly upside down. Here. When I moved here, I met my wife. She's why I moved here. My wife, when I met her, had a master's degree in hospitality from unlv, which is one of the best hospitality schools in the country. Right. So what was she doing with her master's degree in hospitality? She was a cocktail waitress at the Palms, working noon to 8, noon to 8, Monday through Friday, like bankers hours. Cocktailing, making a quarter of a million dollars a year. Trap with full benefits.

[A]

Yeah. It traps you, though, dude.

[B]

Like the guy that you flip your keys to at mgm and you're like, oh, park my car. That dude's. Well, maybe not anymore, since they went to paid parking. But before they were doing paid parking, that dude is making 80 grand. So you have this cycle of, like. It gets handed down, like, well, school maybe not that important because I can get you a job at the casino dealing, or get you a job here or, you know, the bottles girl, Those girls with the sparklers at the club that are making 200 grand a year to take a bottle table. Yeah, it's wild here.

[A]

That's. I got trapped into sales. A sales job in home sales.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not like that, but, like, it was. It was like, I got out of college, out of the restaurant business, looking for something. One of my customers at the restaurant said, hey, why don't you come meet with me one day and I ended up in an in home sales job, which is.

[B]

I.

[A]

Look, I hated it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But. But it cut my teeth in a lot of things, like building rapport with strangers, presenting. That's where you learn how to sell the money. Yeah. All the stuff that goes along with selling it was in home sales.

[B]

That was the first spot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you got the license and then. And then started doing that. How long were you. So how long were you in real estate? How long did you just work selling houses?

[A]

So I was in home sales for nine years and eventually saw my buddies making money in real estate. And I'm like, they can do it. I say that's. I always say that I do it.

[B]

If John could do it, I could apologize to me. Sorry. My life.

[A]

I believe in myself, man. I have a firm believing myself. If I see somebody, a human being doing something and I want to do it, I think I can do it. So I saw these guys making money in real estate and I now looking back, they weren't top real estate agents, but they were making more than I was making at the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I just started asking questions. And that was in 05. Yeah, 05. And I had my real estate license for a year. I became top listing agent, top selling agent in the first year based on all the hustle that I in the grind and I knew how to do. And then I said, you know, I don't want to deal with this, driving people around every day and all this stuff. I looked at the guy that I was sending my loans to or my customers to for loans, as my best friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I grew up with. And I said, dude, I'm coming to work for you. He's like, no, you're not. I said, I'm coming to work for you. And because I was his top referral partner and he's like, I don't want to lose that. Trust me, I'll make you more money than we're making right now. So I came there, learned the business. I drove an hour and a half each way for five years to go to the office because we didn't have a lot of remote access then. Yeah, it was just coming on where you could tap into your computer. But it was like the technology just wasn't.

[B]

Not quite there.

[A]

So I worked in a boiler room and 06, I guess it was November of 06. I started in a mortgage business right before the crash. And Amen, brother. We were doing all the loans, like the 2.2year ARM loans, subprime all that stuff. And mostly refis at the time. And the first year, cracked six figures first time ever. And then I just went up from there. Eventually started managing. I always, I always aim to up level. I'm always like, okay, who's. Who's at the next level? What are they doing? What do they know that I don't know? Because I came to find out that anything that you want in life, if you want to up level, you're not getting something that you want, you're moving too slow, you're insecure about something. It all stems from a lack of knowledge of something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that gave me control. And every time I want to do something, I'm like, okay, what do they know that I don't know? Let me go find it out. And that's what I did. And eventually ended up having branches up and down the east coast.

[B]

I think the most surprising thing about this story is that you could have. Most uber successful people that are entrepreneurs as we are, are chronically unemployable. And the fact that you could have a job for nine years, to me, is shocking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, how did you.

[A]

Well, you know what? I was very lucky because the guy that owned that company, still a friend of mine, he was a mentor to me. You got to think I was 21 years old, I think, and he was showing me the ropes. Like, you know, one of the biggest lessons I can remember him as a mentor is like, we had a problem customer and they were complaining. They were just complaining. And he's like, I'm just going to give them their money back. And like, why? We got a contract. You don't have to give the money back. I didn't get that concept. Yeah, get rid of the problem. Yeah, get rid of the problem.

[B]

It's less expensive in the long run.

[A]

I didn't get it at that time, but that's a lesson I still use today. Sometimes you just have people that aren't aligned with you, and it causes so much drama, energy, you know, you can't. Your creativity gets sucked. And it's just like, just get rid of the problem.

[B]

Yeah. It's not worth it.

[A]

So, yeah. So I. Working for someone, I worked for a guy that was like a mentor to me. And so I didn't feel like it at the time that it was like a job.

[B]

Right. It was like a paid internship.

[A]

And then when I got in the mortgage business, you know, as a loan officer or real estate agent, you're kind of on your own. So it wasn't much. And then When I started my branch and we had success, we kind of ran the show, even though it was under somebody else's platform. Ran the show. We had a pin like, yeah. And they left us alone and we told them what we want. And I think because in that business, they're so afraid you're going to go somewhere else once you're producer.

[B]

Well, that's what I was going to say when you started building that.

[A]

I was respectful, though. Like, I wasn't holding anybody over a bucket. Yeah, I never did that. I had partners and people on my team that did, but I just never operated that way.

[B]

But, dude, here's. For those of you listening on the mortgage business, I'm going to tell you something funny about it, which is there's really two players. At the end of the day when you clear everything out, there's two players. UWM and Rocket. Right.

[A]

Nowadays.

[B]

And they're both. They're both based in Detroit. And for whatever reason, these dudes just hate each other. It is like, it's like old school. Like the men who built America trying to take over the oil trade. It's like they hate each other. And at one point, I want to say it was UWM came out and said, if you write paper with Rocket, you can't write paper with us.

[A]

Oh, yeah, right.

[B]

And we had. Dude. And this is a couple years ago at Inman, maybe three years ago at Inman, we were up in a suite because we were cutting JV deals with a bunch of other people. And literally we went through like, UWN came in and they presented and then they said, this is what we'll do for you guys. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thank you very much. They left.

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If you know your party's extension, press.

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Or say one to leave a message in our company mailbox.

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Press or say two.

[B]

Spoiler alert. It will be full representative.

[A]

Would you speak to your mother in that tone?

[B]

Speak to a real human being. You shouldn't need to shout into the.

[A]

Void to get your health insurance questions answered.

[B]

Pacific Source Health Plans.

[A]

This is a real person.

[B]

How can I help you? Human service not automated phone trees.

[A]

Pacific Source Health Plans.

[B]

And then in came Rocket. And then they presented and then we called UWM back and said, ah, you know, Rocket was better. As they said, they came back and then they were like, and we'll do all of this. And it was like, yeah, dude, watching these guys cut each other at the knees out of spite. At the end of the day, this.

[A]

Is why I got out of the mortgage business. Yeah, it was commoditized.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Toxic, commoditized. I just. And it's not sexy enough for me. But anyway, that's another story. But I just, I couldn't stand it. And the margins like compression and to me, I just didn't want to be involved with that. I wanted to be involved with a business that I could separate myself and then nobody could find me down the street.

[B]

Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Because, dude, you were doing very well with mortgage and then you woke up one day and said, I just don't love this anymore. Yeah, I'm going to do something different. And that, dude, that takes a lot of brass. A lot of people, a lot of people can't do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what was that like?

[A]

First of all, I never loved it, right? Now I got it. When you drop out of college, you're like, okay, I want to be successful. Where can I make money now and where can I grow and where can I stack? It wasn't about where can I be fulfilled, where can I make impact in the world? It wasn't any of that. It was like, I don't know, it's not survival, but because it was beyond survival. But I wanted to thrive. Where can I thrive? And I started making money and it started becoming a trap. And I just started feel like I was not just trapped, but like, this is what I. This is my life, man. This is the way it's gonna have to be. So I'm gonna build this. And the further along it got, the more money I made, the more miserable I got. I'd come home, beautiful wife, been married 21 years, two healthy kids, house on the water, all that stuff. And I'd come home and I'm conflicted, like, why am I so upset? Like, what is this? And I started to realize, like, I'm around the wrong people. Yeah, like this is not what I want to do. And so it hit me when I hit 40, instead of chasing women and getting a sports car, it hit me, I was like, I gotta make a change. And I just said, I can't do this anymore. And so I started a wind down process and then created an exit strategy. And yeah, that's where, that's where it started. But, but you know, it was, did.

[B]

You know what you wanted to do next or did you just, you was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'm not doing this.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I felt at first, the first thoughts like, what can I do? Not having A college degree. You know, this is back in 2018, not having a college degree. I had just lost a million dollars. My. My partner and I, I mean, we got stripped behind the scenes on some margins.

[B]

And if you don't lose a million once in your life, you ain't trying.

[A]

I had a big taste in my mouth and I was just like, man, like, what am I gonna do? And I just felt like a. I felt boxed in. I didn't like that feeling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So eventually I just said, you know what? I gotta start. I gotta start doing something else, man. I don't know what it is. And so I started praying, and I pray all the time now, man. Like, I'm unapologetic believer in God, man. Like, he's. You know, when I was going through those dark times in college and party and all that, I felt so alone times. There could be people all around me. I just felt like, alone. And now I don't ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And so I pray all the time while I was praying. And I was just like, please show me away, man. Like, show me there's got to be something. And the thing that came to me was, you got to get known. And I was like, okay, well, I think I'm already known. I'm like, I've been on covers of magazines, locally, regionally done news and all that stuff. And they said, no, globally, man. Like, globally. And I was like, I don't care about ego, though. I'm not an ego. I don't care about that. That's what I thought about getting known. You have to. It's. It's all about ego. Can be. But that's not the right route to travel. I was thinking more along the lines once I started thinking more about impact. Yeah, if you get known, you're going to create more impact. And so. Well, I think I committed to getting on globally.

[B]

Well, real quick. I think that's. That's something that people that aren't on that road or aren't on that mission, they just can't get their head around it. Like, they're like. They look at everybody that does stuff that you do, and it's all, dude's an egomaniac. It's just all ego driven, blah, blah. And they don't understand that. It's like, no, dude. Yeah, I just. I really. I got mine. I'm good. I did me right? And now I can help other people by doing this stuff. And they don't. They don't get it.

[A]

Yeah, well, I talk about that a lot to people I'll say, you know, you got to become a celebrity in your space. Like, you got to become, like, the brand. That one. That's where that one came from. And you'll hear people say, I don't really care about being a celebrity. I just want to make some money. And it's like, no, you're not getting it. I don't care about my ego. Like, I don't. It's not about that. It's about impact. The more you get known, if you're getting on globally, you're going to knock out your local market, no problem. Like, if you're in real estate and, like, if I was going to be in right now, like, coming to Vegas and getting a real estate, I would be like, I'm the king of real estate in Vegas.

[B]

Day one.

[A]

Saying that.

[B]

Day one.

[A]

Yeah. Because you got to be it. Like, just be it. And then all of a sudden, your attention starts focusing on all the ways that you're going to be the king of Vegas real estate. Now, you might hear that and me saying that on social media, this guy, where the hell he come from? Doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter what the number one, number two number doesn't matter. All that matters is what you think in your head and what you keep saying. Every day you start taking these actions, and before you know it, you got billboards all around where C Rock's the king of real estate. In Vegas, here's the king of real estate even before the numbers prove it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's how you become known and successful. But again, it's not about ego. It's just a portrayal of that celebrity. So I started realizing, like, I got to become a celebrity in my space, get known globally, and I started going on podcasts, man. And that changed everything. Like, I didn't even know. Here's the thing. A guy invited me on a podcast, 2019. He asked me three times. I said, no, no. And the third time, he said, why? And I'm like, dude, I don't have an ipod. And he's like, what are you talking about? Like, I don't know. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I didn't know. And so, as stupid as that sounds, especially for what we do now, he said, no, man, just come on the show. I'll interview you. So I. He said, I respect your leadership and abilities and. And your entrepreneurial, all that stuff. I said, all right, I'll come on. So I was being interviewed And I noticed this feeling while I was being interviewed. You've had to feel it before as a guest before. I was like, holy, this is awesome. Somebody's showing interest in you. This isn't going to go out to people. They care about what you think and what you say. I was just like, this is amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I said, if I can bottle this, I'll be unstoppable. So I got off that podcast. I called my assistant, Kim. At the time, I'm in mortgage business. I said, kim, clear the schedule. This. At this point, I was working maybe two hours a week in the mortgage business because we had a systematizer. And I said, I got to be on podcasts every day. Like, we just got to do this. And she's like, okay, but how? I don't know. Yeah, like the how does it matter? We're just gonna do it. Commitment first. Commitment first. Not how first. Commitment first. The house shows up. It always does. But nobody commits. They always want the house.

[B]

But more importantly, the who shows up.

[A]

Well, that's part of the how, right? Yeah, yeah, I heard that before. But the who is part of the how. Yeah, Right. So.

[B]

But you're the who.

[A]

So that's why here's the thing. Yeah, yeah, I'm the who. That's right, you're the who.

[B]

Now that's.

[A]

I can get you on podcast. But here's the thing, man. Like, when you. Like when you start committing to something, stuff starts to appear around you that has always been there. I started seeing friends that had podcasts. I had no idea they had podcasts, but they were my friends. How did I not know that? I wasn't paying attention to it. I started seeing all these opportunities. I started going on all their shows, seven to ten a week. I've been on over 1100 as a guest in the last five years from doing this. Better shows kept coming, bigger stages kept coming. Network, like, massive network expansion. And so I just leaned into it, and before you know it, then the how came for the next step in my life, which is, wow, I have a system here. I documented this process of getting on podcasts and what you how to leverage every aspect of it. And I gotta help other people do this now. And so we created that one to help people become that one in their industry through guesting on podcasts, podcasts, and leveraging every aspect of it with some things that I figured out that nobody's still doing. Still not doing.

[B]

Like what? Like what?

[A]

So, first of all, obviously, before Reels and TikToks came out, I was repurposing everything into clips and then posting it everywhere and becoming omnipresent. But the key factor is, is that when people see you being interviewed by multiple people, not just having to show yourself or just once in a while, your credibility and authority, perception wise, from the people that are watching, it goes through the roof beyond what you even actually feel about yourself. So you become like this. It's wild because when I started doing this, I would go to events and people want to take selfies with me and. And my family would be with me and they'd be like, what's this? This is crazy. Like, why do you want to take a picture with you? We don't even want to take a picture with you. Just weird stuff.

[B]

Even people are like, you know, even earlier, they're like, I. I know that that guy's somebody, but I don't know who it is, but I'm gonna get a picture.

[A]

But. But see, I was good at branding my, like, my last name. If I said Sirocco, it wouldn't work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I branded Sea Rock.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then, and then it made recognition really easy. So people started coming up to me all the time and I was like, this, there's something here. And I didn't let it get to my ego. I just. I just realized that I have something that I could document and build for other people. And so when we started doing this now, so repurposing contents one, Number two, this is the most powerful thing ever. Every show I would go on, within a week or two, I would get on a 15 minute call with the host and I would set it up while I was still here, and I would show interest in the host on that call. It wasn't about me at all. It was all about, hey, what are you working on right now that's got you excited? What's the vision that you have going forward? Challenges are you dealing with right now? And I would ask these questions and actively listen. And then it would allow me to help them, connect them with someone, make a suggestion, whatever. And it expanded the network drastically because people would give the shirt off their back if you showed interest.

[B]

That is.

[A]

Nobody does that.

[B]

That's the Dan Fleischman superpower. Right. Dan is a friend and he's always said, my phone is my superpower. Yeah, because no, what you need, dude, that guy has got somebody in his phone that can do it.

[A]

He's great at it.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Now, here's the other thing. So not just podcasts. Then I carried this over and I Was like, you know what I call these 15 minis. These calls, 15 minis work across the board. So I was like, if it works with podcast hosts, I'm going to start reaching out to people on Instagram and I call them perfect strangers. So I set up a system through Instagram where I. I can scrape Instagram. Okay. For the target audience.

[B]

You auto DM reach out.

[A]

I send out 50 to 60 messages a day, you know, letting them know that, man, their content's great, I appreciate their content and I'd love to connect more. And then they respond and I lead them to 15 minis and I have calls. I have like three to five a day in between podcasts and business meetings with total strangers. And I asked them that right now. That's got. Got you excited. What's the vision for the future? And they either come, they need to get on podcasts, they need help with their Instagram growth and strategy, they need help with capital, they need help with connecting some. I mean, it's amazing.

[B]

What platform are you using for your cold outreach?

[A]

We use Flowchart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have a team that like, works.

[B]

It, dude, if you haven't seen it. And this is literally, that's why the Scotsman you just met looks frazzled today because he's been in it 12 hours a day figuring this out. But Go High Level just, just launched AI across all of their stuff. And dude, it's $97 for voice. I mean, just, it's wild how cheap that is. Like, I saw Russell was doing like his last ClickFunnels Live deal. I'm like, I wonder why he's stopping it. And I see this. I'm like, oh, his. Russell's gonna ride off into the sunset if I'm wrestling.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

High Level is just on steroids.

[A]

Yeah. Well, here's the thing, though. So with speaking of AI, there's still got to be some human connection and touch to it, right? And then there's also platforms like Instagram. If you do some of these reach out things and they're automated too much, it'll shut your account. So I can't risk that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we still have a lot of manual involvement, but it's still automated. But it works, man. I mean, and then We've also done LinkedIn. We have a way on LinkedIn right now where you can create 500 unique accounts, unique IP addresses, and then AI creates these accounts for you, and then we can Send up to 15,000 messages a month to a targeted audience.

[B]

So, but my hold email through LinkedIn on.

[A]

Yeah, listen, I, I, I want to connect with people to help them.

[B]

Yeah. That's dope.

[A]

My business, that one is just a, A tool that we take on the mission, and I just want to help so many people and lean into that. That's why Dan's good, too. He cares about people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wants to help people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not all about the dollar. The dollar follows. And so when I switch my mind, frame up about just wanting to help people, waking up every day obsessed with helping people, whether it's a connection or strategy or whatever, it's changed everything, man. It's made life so much easier.

[B]

So when you started that one, when you, how did you. Obviously the strategy you just talked about, but here you are. So this is the decision you made to start this. So was it. What was the. What was this? The story arc of that? Was it podcast and then agency? Was it. Agency was what. What was the progression?

[A]

So I started my podcast after I've been on probably 100 shows as a guest.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I've had 900, close to a thousand episodes of that show now. But so I had that going. I was still guesting, and then I winded the mortgage thing down, and I, While I was winding that down, I started the agency because I wanted to help others cash. Well, help others, but I want to get some cash flow to replace that money.

[B]

Yeah, it's worth doing. It's worth doing for money.

[A]

Look, I had to. You know, sometimes when you make a move like this, like you said, it's. It's courageous, man. Like, I wake up some mornings during that time, dude, what are you doing? Like, what is. Like, you have a license. This is what you're used to. You're comfortable. Why are you doing, like, all these thoughts would run through my head, and I just kept telling myself, keep going, dude. Just keep going. And very shortly after that, it started to, like, snowball, and I was like, totally. This is working.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then when you're starting doing a startup, you got to figure out pricing, you got to figure out your offers, your packages, and then optimize at all times and then raise prices and see how far you can go just based on the value you're delivering and the quality of clients. Gets better when you optimize everything. And so over the last three years, that's what we've been doing. We've been just figuring out how to optimize everything, optimize fulfillment. So that was the arc. And, and, you know, now we're launching that one podcast Tour to do more promotion and get involved with more people in person, travel the country more and just get known.

[B]

Well, let's talk about. Let's talk about. And again, I. I never want these things to turn it in from marshals, dude, but I do want people to kind of understand what they do when they work with you. So if I'm somebody that calls you, let's say I call you up and I say, hey, dude, I want to build my brand. I want you to give me a podcast. What is my expectation? Like, what. What. What would I expect as somebody that does that?

[A]

So we have an onboarding call with them to find out their vision, their mission, where they are currently. Because we want to meet them where they are and then take them, you know, to the next level. So we find out all that information, how, you know, whether they've been on podcasts, what's their strategy currently, and then we just share with them what I've done and what I'm currently doing. And then we just dial in a great press kit for them because we know what the podcast look at and like. And then we just. We create a roster of shows to introduce them to, and it's very hyper. Intentional. And then we just get them, you know, warm, warm connections. And we try not to cold pitch ever. Sometimes we have to depend on the client, but try not to cold pitch. And we get them warm connections. And then they say, hey, yeah, John would like to have you on the show. Here's his link. And they get booked on the show.

[B]

No, it's such a. It's such a fine line for you, though, because. Do you guys turn people down? I mean, because you can't dilute. Because obviously if you started sending me a bunch of garbage, I'd be like, bro, what are you doing?

[A]

A hundred percent. We first started, I would work with anybody just to see you have to do.

[B]

Right. Because you have to.

[A]

And then very, very slowly, it started to evolve into a situation where we became exclusive. Yeah, I. I don't just work with anybody. Not at all. And if we get somebody that pays us and we find out that they're not aligned, we just give them their money back and move on. Yeah, because I don't. Yes, 100%.

[B]

Who's your ideal client?

[A]

Ideal client?

[B]

Avatar that.

[A]

Well, ideally, I'd like to have somebody that's been on podcast before, but they just don't want to have that time and attention directed towards research and new shows reach out to people, and they don't want to hire internally because they the way we structured it is you couldn't hire a va, a virtual assistant from overseas for the same amount of money with the expertise and the network and the systems of process we have. Yeah. So I want to basically, you know how some people have like fractional CEOs, fractional CMOs. We want to be that department that you just interject, you just plug into your company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we do all the reach out and get you on shows so you can show up and perform.

[B]

So when you started the business, did you have a scaling plan? Like, did you start out and say, okay, like, it's just, just me today, but when I get to this point, like, I need to make this higher, I need to make that higher, or just organically as you're going through it.

[A]

I scaled the mortgage business, so. So, you know, look, I was a loan officer and I had so many deals coming, I couldn't take anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I had delays, closing delays, because I didn't know how to scale, I didn't know how to delegate. So no 100%. And just basically structure it the same way I did in the mortgage business, where we would have certain processors and assistants handling certain number of loans. They'd have a pipeline, and then we call them pods. We'd set up pods and then we would just have them. So we do the same now is we have pods. Clients get a team, and that team works on that pod of clients. And then everything we do, we document. One of my favorite books, which basically lays out what I've already done in the past, but I never really documented it was Dan Martell's Buy Back youk Time, where everything you do, you document it, you shoot a video on it, and then you document.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And then that way you can replicate it, you can bring somebody in it just they don't know how to do the podcast booking side or anything, but they know how to follow a checklist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you create a checklist and they follow the checklist and they know they've done the job.

[B]

That is the. That is the biggest gripe that I literally just had a. I had a meeting here with all of our team leaders, like, all the people running businesses inside of our business. And I'm like, how many of you gu have a loom library of all of your processes? And they're like, maybe two of them. I'm like, so every time you bring on a new agent, you're literally starting from zero with your time and training that.

[A]

And you're setting them up for Failure, dude. It's setting them up. Failure. So we want to set people up for success. So how do you do that? Will you bring them in and make it as easy a transition as possible and then getting things on a gradient scale and work them up into more difficult things? But you have everything laid out like a blueprint or a. What is it called? Like a step by step. Not step by step, but it's. Yeah, they just. They're just guided into the business so that their comfort level gets better and better as they go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they have confidence building, you know, and they can have quick wins when they come work.

[B]

Yeah. Well, so let's talk about that. That's interesting too. How do you hire? What's your hiring process like?

[A]

So in the. Well, basically what we've done so far is we've got two Filipino VAs that help us out. Todd is the sales calls and oversees the booking department. I have an ops manager and she came with me from the mortgage company. So I try to look through my network.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's mainly what I like to do is add from my network from the past. We have my son. I like to help young people out and teach them the game. My son, my ops manager's daughter works with us.

[B]

Yeah. The guy that booked you was 16 years old. That's my kid.

[A]

Yeah, he's 18.

[B]

My son's 16. That's who booked you? That's who booked you on this.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we just show them the ropes, right? Yeah, but. But from here, really, like, I like to look at contracting. I don't like to have W2 employees. Really? Yeah. Like the contract out and then. And then teach them how to have set themselves up an LLC and have their own little business. Like I would. There's nothing better for me than to bring somebody in, teach them the ropes, and then have them get other business too and then explode. So I have to go find somebody else.

[B]

Yeah. Like, that's.

[A]

That's the way we hire.

[B]

And the cool thing about doing something that nobody's really done, which is what you did, was you're going out to try to find some grizzled industry vet that has all these problems. You're just trying to hire the smartest man.

[A]

I don't want to deal with that anymore.

[B]

Yeah. Dude, I quit hiring industry specific people for a lot of our companies, and I just try to hire the smartest people we can.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I. I can teach somebody any business. I can't teach somebody how to be smart.

[A]

I mean, I've had old dogs trying to teach them new tricks. I've had bang my head against the wall like people. And then, you know, in the mortgage real estate business, you had the phase where people were getting big signing bonuses and I couldn't do anything to keep them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because there were, there were some loan officers being offered 500 to a million dollar signing bonuses just to come over to UWM Rocket. Yeah. Any of those. Yeah. It's like, man, this is crazy. And I couldn't argue with them.

[B]

No.

[A]

Why wouldn't you take that, dude?

[B]

You have to do your family.

[A]

They know they can always come back, you know? You know, so I just, I. That was the part of the business I didn't like. But yeah, now I. Brand new. Nobody's done this, what we're doing right now, the way we're doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just get real creative and try different things and make it go. Yeah.

[B]

Let's talk a little bit about the book, dude, because I love this. Even the title of the book, Rocket fuel. How to turn your failures into fuel. And it's so funny, dude, because literally yesterday had a situation where my daughter faced some adversity through a sport that she plays. And you know, my daughter's very much me. My son is very affable. He's very much my wife. Right. My daughter's Helen Wheels. And my wife's like, you're going to go talk to her? I go, no, because it won't do any good for me to talk to her right now because she's. It's got to sting her today. Yeah, today's got a sting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's going to let it. But tomorrow she's going to get the. Dude. This is gasoline. It can either burn you up or you can put it in the tank for rocket fuel. That's exactly what I said. It was funny that I get you to see the name of your book. I'm like, oh, there you go. Yeah, there it is. Perfect topic today. So. Yeah, I mean, what, what, what. Why did you want to write a book about that message in the first place?

[A]

Well, because where I came from and brokenness, I, I witnessed, I, I mentioned earlier, I was very observant as a young kid and I witnessed the people around me that were dealing with alcohol problems or prescription drug addiction or they would always tell a story and it was always based on their past. Yeah, right. Of why they were being the way they were right now. And I said, you can't. I just, it was so obvious to me. You can't see that you're creating this life that you're living right now. It's like. It was almost comical to me at a young. At a young age. And I would call him out on it, and they would get, like, pissed. They would try to argue and deny. And I'm like, when you know something, even as a kid, like, when you know something, you know something.

[B]

Yeah. Tooth fair is not real, buddy.

[A]

Come on, man. And so I knew that that was what was happening. So I started realizing, wait, wait a minute. If you tell a bad story about your past, you must be able to tell a story about the future and then go live into that. And so that's what I started doing as a kid. I was like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. And. And. And creating these visions and then executing upon them, and I was seeing results, and I was like, wow. But also, anytime I saw a setback, a discouragement. I'll tell you one story real quick. So when I was living with my dad, I moved in with him and his new wife when I was 10 years old. Was it 10? I was 8. 8 years old. And very quickly, I realized it wasn't a. An environment for con. Conducive for success. Okay. My stepmom was jealous of my mom, my dad's side of the family. She was mentally abusive, verbally abusive, like, it was. It was bad. And I had threats coming my way as a kid. I realized after a few years that I had an option to get out and I shouldn't be in this situation. So my mom filed court papers to get me back to move with her. And when my dad. I didn't say anything to my dad until he got the papers delivered to him. I came home from school one day, and he said, what's this paper here says you want to move back with your mom? You know, and my dad was Mason. He had it pretty well off. My mom, not so much. And my mom was moving on to her third marriage and all this stuff, and so you would think that that wouldn't be the spot that you would want to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But there was love there. There's no love here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And so he can't. He. He confronted me, and I said, yeah, I want to move back with my mom. I. There's no discussion needed to be had. He said, all right, go back to your room. So he went. I went back to my room, waited for him, and he said, hey, you know what? Now, my dad was a. He was my hero. He had these big forearms and rough hands.

[B]

Hard workers.

[A]

And he always had a wide $100 bills in his pocket all the time.

[B]

Seems it's a very Italian Philly thing to have.

[A]

He would show us money all the time. Like, Benjamin Franklin was like, oh, that was awesome. And I always want a lot of those. Well, he came back in the room when he confronted me, and he pulled that wad, 100 bills out, he peeled one off and he crumpled it up and he threw it at me. He said, here, you're gonna need this when you're living on the streets with your mother. Then one day, and I was like, holy cow, what did I just do? Did I make a mistake? All these thoughts go, you know, eight years old. I was 10 at this point. All right, now, okay, still.

[B]

Still 10 years.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

And not exactly the seasoned vet at 10.

[A]

No. But I said, you know what? I just do. And then all of a sudden it came to me, wait a minute, dude, you're not gonna need that money like, you're not gonna need that money like you. Let's show him. This is, like, stuff running through my head, man. I'm always talking to myself, by the way, ever since I can remember. And I'm like, come on, dude, let's go. Let's. Let's rock now. And so I basically use that, that, that, that scene for my life. All the way through high school, college, playing football, all that stuff. Anytime I needed it, I just fed off that.

[B]

That was a fuel.

[A]

Fuel, right? I didn't understand. I was really doing. I was subconscious. But when I hit my 40s and I started, like, really working on myself and find out who I am and what I've been through and where I'm going to go, I started to realize this concept, like this rocket fuel law. I was like, what have I been doing all my life that's been like, creating this success? And I realized that if you take everything that comes your way and you have a choice, two choices. One, fuel, tank or trunk. Fuel, tank or trunk. And it eliminates chaos.

[B]

Better analogy, good analogy.

[A]

Eliminates chaos. Like, chaos comes from when you have too many choices. Binary decision. It's in a tank or it's in a trunk. Trunk weighs you down, slows you down. Tank convert, rocket fuel. Come unstoppable. And I just became. I was like, oh, shit, this is like the way. This is like a law. Rocket fuel law. And so I just wrote a book about my story and all the instances of that law. And then during that time, I ran into Grant Cardone. I read the 10x rule and I was like, I vibe with this guy a little bit with this message. And. And then I got him to write the Ford. I. I said while I was writing the book that I was going to get him to write the Ford because his story. And a lot of people have the story, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But his story with his dad dying when he's 10, all this stuff, it just resonated with me of how he used that as fuel. And so I got him to write the forward for the book right. When he was doing Undercover Billionaire. And it just. Just. I see this story. You have the story. I'm sure seen the story so many times now. It's like. It's just like John Maxwell has his leadership laws. This is the Rocketfield law.

[B]

Yeah. Unstoppable. Yeah, dude. It's like, look, I don't have, like, I don't have the terrible backstory. I mean, I. Straight middle class, whatever. I mean, father was an attorney. My parents got divorced very young, and my dad, that's part.

[A]

That's.

[B]

Yeah, my dad banged my mom out bad in a divorce. You know, if you're listening to this and you're married to a Southern lawyer in a small Southern town, don't get divorced in that Southern town. It's not going to go well for you. So. Yeah, I mean, we were. For us, it was kind of a weird deal. Right. Because we lived in the most expensive neighborhood. Right. Because my. We had the house, my dad left the house. But, yeah, we were broke. So, like, all of my friends that lived all around us all had things, could all do whatever. And my mom was always struggling. Right. Just struggling. So it created this really weird dynamic. And it's probably led into, like earlier when I said I was so worried about other people are going to think about me when they found out. Probably.

[A]

That's a. That's a. Yeah, that's a trauma situation.

[B]

Sure. Not getting. Yeah.

[A]

Just everybody's got their own. It's a. And you can't compare it to someone else's. It's like a human being's dealing with some kind of tragedy or trauma or conflict.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it's like, what do you do with that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Obviously you've figured out how to put it in the tank, not the trunk.

[B]

Yeah. Well, dude, one of my proudest things, like, look, on the Apprentice, I got fired. No news. You know, news flash. There you go. Spoiler alert. If you go back and watch it. Yeah, I got clipped. But the thing that I'm most proud about that show was the show psychologist wrote a book called Sweet Success and called me to interview me about it after all the seasons of the show. And I said, why do you want to interview me? She goes, because you tested higher in resiliency than anybody ever had. And I was like, all right, cool, whatever. There you go. So, hey, man, I'll take it. I don't look back at anything in my life as a negative. It was all a gift. Everything is a gift to me because it makes you who you are and builds you.

[A]

I was talking to a CPA that works with billionaires. Right. This company deals with, like, probably most of the billionaires in the United States.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he said not one of his clients has been to a situation where they didn't lose everything at least once. Most of them twice.

[B]

Yeah, you're not trying hard enough.

[A]

And so that's another example of the rocket fuel.

[B]

It works if you. If you're not willing to throw it all away and go work at McDonald's, you're not entrepreneuring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, that doesn't cross.

[A]

Listen, I still deal with it today. I mean, I still have times where things like that are happening, but I always say, like, now it's like, so much quicker. I don't have any motion tied to it now. Yeah, so much quicker. Like, oh, that's going to tank. Yes. The worse it is, the more octane it has.

[B]

Dude. It's like Alex Hermosi was saying a couple. I saw a clip of him on social media. This is how powerful one clip can be. This is probably a month ago, and I still think about it. I literally think about this clip from Hermosy almost every day where he said, look, my life is a story. I am the hero of my story. Every time adversity comes up, I think to myself, this is going to make a great story. So the bigger the problem, the bigger the dragon I get to slay, the bigger the hero I become. I look at everything that way, and I was like, man, that's really fucking good.

[A]

Well, and here's the other thing, too. At the end of the day, like, a lot of times we want to be the hero, but when you take that weight off your shoulders and as a believer, like, I just. I give all the, like, credit to God, man. I mean, and it takes. Takes the pressure off of you. So I've gone through these transitions and I hit 40, started to realize, like, it's not about me. That made a difference too. Like, now it's about, okay, what can I do to help other people? And then everything that goes good, just give credit somewhere else. Don't take credit for it.

[B]

Yeah. When people ask me, like, if was there a mind shift in your life like that, that mind shift that affected you more than anything else, I think the day that I realized that I am a bit player in everybody else's movie and they're the star of it, not me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I think because, you know, dude, why, why don't, why, why don't they think this is important? Why are they reacting a certain way? It's like, oh, yeah, I'm just a bit player in their life. They're. I'm just, I'm staring my own movie. And I like that. Go. And now anytime anybody does something that I don't agree with or I would take as a slight or whatever else, I just going to go like, dude, I'm just. I'm number 57 on the call sheet today in their movie. I'm nobody. It doesn't matter. It does not matter. It's not me. It doesn't matter. They're in their story. So I want to talk about this, man, because you said you got an 18 year old. How old are the kids?

[A]

12. My daughter's 12.

[B]

All right, 12. So you being a gentleman of means, as we all are, I ask everybody this because it is my biggest fear on the planet. Somebody asked me what I'm scared of and here it is. It's raising worthless kids. Terrifies me. Right? Because, dude, you want to give your kids all the nice stuff. You want it, you want it. You know, when you go on vacation, if you're sitting up front that you want them sit up front with you? It's just kind of how it is. So what is Mikey Seahrock and Mrs. Sea Rock do to make sure that Seahock Jr. And little Mrs. Seahock are not entitled, terrible humans?

[A]

Well, there's a balance. Right. Because I believe. See, when I grew up, I was sitting in the nosebleed seats all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And I didn't think it was possible for me to sit down there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's a balance there between like giving them everything like that and never letting them sit up in a nosebleed because they don't ever know that it's possible for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I believe, I think Eileen more on that side is showing them what's possible for them, but also knowing that it's, hey, this is, this is me that did this, not you. Yeah, right. You didn't get this. You don't deserve this. You're getting it from me, okay? But then the other part of it is I'm very, very hard on my kids at home. Like, I don't beat them or anything like that.

[B]

No, no, no, no. But I have high expectations.

[A]

High expectations. Standards to the point where they're like, you know, you're not like, you know, I'm not trying to be their friend. Like, you know, but it hurts me sometimes because I'm like, man, he's pissed at me. Or, you know, or she's pissed at me or whatever. And it's like, this is better for him, I think.

[B]

I tell myself, I tell my son, this is the job, dude. Yeah. This is the job.

[A]

I'm your father. I'm not your friend, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'd rather be hard on them and put them in really tough situations at home. So when they go out to the world, it's a piece of cake, dude.

[B]

I'll tell you. So I'll tell you a couple things I started doing recently. I love number one. So my boy's working here now, right? So occasionally me, you know, he's done it. He'll do the podcast stuff, but I have him doing other stuff. He's a really bright kid. 4.65 GPA, all IP classes. Really smart kid. And so I've just said, okay, cool. I'll take this from Bookkeeper. You can enter the credit card charges into the QuickBooks. Just the credit card charges. And, dude, I started him with that. And he would come around the corner and say shit like, man, I am so glad we got rid of Cox cable and got YouTube TV. That bill was crazy. And it was like, yeah. Because now he sees how much every little thing costs. That was one. And the number two, because now he has a job and I'm paying him and he has money coming in other than his little side businesses. I said, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you credit card just because it's stupid to pay cash for stuff. I'm giving you a Chase Reserve credit card. Here it is. I said, once a month, we're going to reconcile this. And he goes, well, how much more? I know how I'm spending. You're going to have to track it, right? So we sit down once a month and I add it all up, and I make him transfer all the money to me at one time. And I'm like, bro, you spent like $180. Taco Bell. What are you doing? And it's gone from freewheeling good time, you know, hating throwing money all over the place. Yeah. I really cut back this month. I'm eating a home, I'm being responsible. I'm like, dude, this is the greatest.

[A]

Yeah. So I, I created my son an llc.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

So he's a contractor for our company and so I'm showing him how to do the taxes. I'm showing him how to take advantage of every tax write off you can as an llc. Like all the loopholes and all the tax advantages and, but also showing them how to get a check in X amount goes into your savings for taxes. Now I, I tell him to put 40 away in tax count. Right. He's not gonna have to pay that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the day because of the, all the way the money shakes out. But he'll still have money sitting there and then he'll be like, oh, I have extra money now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's, you know, so I teach him that stuff. I teach my daughter. My daughter started businesses already. She's, I, you know, I'll give her 100 bucks and I'll tell her, look, I'll give you another 100 bucks if you can double that money and you know, two weeks and give them challenges like that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So little things like that, bro, you.

[B]

See these kids today and it's, it's. I think my kids are heavy. Like, did you see that? I don't know if you saw this. Something like 10 year old kid created a meme coin yesterday and rugged it for 30 grand. He's 10.

[A]

He's 10 years old. Two million if he could have stayed.

[B]

In and we could have made 2 million if you stayed in and. Yeah, dude, but you're 10 and he's speaking the language.

[A]

Did you hear him?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He was tossing and all that, but he was speaking the language.

[B]

Up 10 and you made more money than these people. Dude, it's.

[A]

Wait a minute. But here's the thing. I realized something.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

I don't know if this is true or not. Okay. But this is some. Just observe. Observations are like starting to tell me different things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I truly believe now I'm starting to believe this, that we come into this world and we come into a body, but the spirit or whatever it is that operates us is old. It's got information. You heard old souls.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Things. Right. I don't know, man. Like I'm a Christian and everything and I don't know how the Bible really spells this out effectively or clearly, but there's got to be something there that these people come in and it's not about how old your physical body is. Yeah, it's got, there's something more to that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you see some people, not just business but like athletes or musicians or. It's just. There's something there, man.

[B]

Dude, there's, there's nothing here before. There's nothing more humbling than when you, you're flipping through like Instagram and you see like an 8 year old doing something that you do better than you'll ever be able to do it.

[A]

You're like, I just say he's been here before so he's gotta.

[B]

Yeah, I've been playing drum.

[A]

I don't know if there's past lives.

[B]

Man, I don't know. But I've been playing drums since I was a little kid and I'll see some nine year old just shredding, doing stuff that I will never be able to do. And I'm like, well that's just disheartening.

[A]

Yeah, well, I don't know whether it's the spirit or if the cells have memories the cells came from or something, but there's something there. People know how to make money like naturally. Some of them something people, it's. It's wild.

[B]

Something. Well, I want to. Let's finish up with this man, because I think this is a good way to finish up. So obviously very heavy with the Christian faith. Love that do very well. Entrepreneurship. There's got to be some causes that are near and dear to your heart. Do you have giving is built in a part of your, of your business or you. Do you have an arm of it that works that way or. Talk to me about that.

[A]

So when I was in a mortgage business, we worked with an organization called Believe in Tomorrow and they had a. Basically an organization that would take people that had terminal ill kids and they would give them vacations. The whole family at the beach where we live. And then I got out of the mortgage business and then when I took that switch, now I'm going to building the business. Everything's going to the business and then we're just helping entrepreneurs and focusing on giving connections and all that. And then I'm going to get back into working with that same organization because it's just the best. Yeah. To me it's like to see the families and the kids when they can escape the stress. Believe in Tomorrow is the organization that they have Children's Hospital or Children's Home by the Sea it's called and it's just it's out of Baltimore and then they expand down to Ocean City, Maryland, with the houses they bought, houses that they put people in for vacations.

[B]

That's awesome. All right, well, if they want to find you, how do they connect with you? How do they find you?

[A]

Mikey C. Rock on Instagram, man.

[B]

Mikey C. Rock on Instagram.

[A]

And that one agency.

[B]

That one agency. Book Rocket fuels on Amazon. Yes, all of it. Dude, thank you so much for coming. I appreciate it, man. Look, dude, if you didn't get something out of that, there's something wrong with you. Not wrong with me. Yeah. I mean, personal brand is so important. And the best way, like, literally, it used to be every kid's dream to be on TV for 10 minutes. I mean, everybody has their 15 minutes of fame. It's so easy to get out there in front of people if you have the right people behind you. If your goal is to become known, I would reach out to this dude. I do business with their agency. It's great. I think you'd be impressed. Anyway, I'll see you next week. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift.com you can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review, give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.