Escaping the Drift with John Gafford

Episode: From "Fat Doctor" Pills to Celebrity Addiction Expert: Dr. Cali Estes

Date: January 13, 2026
Guest: Dr. Cali Estes
Host: John Gafford

Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid episode, John Gafford sits down with Dr. Cali Estes—renowned addiction and trauma expert, clinician, best-selling author, and host of the “Unpause Your Life” podcast. Dr. Estes shares her personal journey from struggling with addiction to becoming a go-to specialist for top performers, celebrities, athletes, and executives seeking to break destructive habits and level up their lives. Together, they explore the true roots of addiction, modern societal challenges like phone dependency and sugar, the failures of traditional recovery, and how changing mindsets, habits, and health can fundamentally transform lives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Cali Estes’ Origin Story ([01:07]–[03:55])

• Early fascination with human behavior: Aspiring FBI profiler, naturally drawn to understanding "why people do what they do."
• Personal experience with binge eating and "fat doctor" pills:
  • College years: Emotional eating episode leads to a “fat doctor” prescribing fen-phen, resulting in rapid weight loss and immediate addiction.
  • After fen-phen was banned, she escalated to ephedra and speed, ending up with heart issues and repeated medical scares.
  • "I can eat anything I want, and now I'm thin. Then they discontinued fenfed. Well, I was addicted." [02:29] – Dr. Cali
  • Yoga and a supportive instructor ultimately guide her to sobriety and a new life purpose.
• Epiphany and professional pivot:
  • Addictive patterns resonate with her in an academic addiction class, leading her to pursue helping others.

2. Markers & Patterns of Addiction ([03:57]–[06:36])

• Identifying addiction:
  • Inability to let go of a behavior or substance ("If you can go two weeks without it, you’re probably not addicted").
  • Making excuses ("I can stop when I want to, I just don’t want to" = major tell).
  • Life impact: deteriorating relationships, job loss, dependence for daily functioning.
• Modern pervasive addictions:
  • Phone and digital media addiction (second to sugar).
  • "Sugar is the worst habit we have because it’s in everything." [05:18] – Dr. Cali
  • Digital life now essential for employment, banking, and even entry to buildings ([06:11]–[06:56]).

3. Root Causes: Addiction as a Solution ([07:15]–[08:29])

• Core belief: "Addiction is not your problem. It's your solution to the problem." [07:15] – Dr. Cali
  • Treatment focuses not on the substance but the underlying issue (trauma, boredom, escape, lack of fulfillment).
• The “chaos concept” and boredom: Driven professionals can fall into cycles of chaos as their "baseline" for feeling alive ([08:29]–[09:05]).

4. Breaking Negative Cycles & Resetting Baselines ([09:05]–[11:21])

• Neuropathways and comfort with “rock bottom”:
  • Addictive patterns are familiar and provide a sense of comfort.
  • "Your brain goes: Oh, I know what this is. This is comfortable here...Once you break that, then the brain goes, oh, we're not gonna do that anymore." [10:07] – Dr. Cali
• Goal: Shift from being “addicted to negative” to being “addicted to positive” wins ([11:33]–[12:23]).

5. Working with Celebrities, Executives, and Athletes ([11:23]–[16:41])

• Who seeks help:
  • For celebrities and athletes, interventions often come at the behest of agents or family and are tied to career consequences.
  • Executives often come after significant losses or ultimatums in personal life.
• Challenges in high-profile cases:
  • Celebrities: Worse due to entourages of “yes” people, rapid access to substances, and lack of real boundaries.
  • Dr. Cali’s tough-love, “no person” approach sets her apart: “I stand there and I’m like, are you done? Because when you’re done, I can get started.” [14:36]
  • Memorable story ([14:50]–[16:41]):
    • A challenging client in Beverly Hills: “He rented an entire floor...just so he could smoke weed in his underwear.”
    • Dr. Cali’s refusal to be intimidated eventually won his respect and facilitated his long-term sobriety.

6. Advice for People Struggling ([16:46]–[18:49])

• “Fix your why” mantra:
  • Lasting change only happens when you address the real reason for your behavior, not just the behavior itself.
  • "If you can figure out your why and solve your why, you can solve your problem." [17:10] – Dr. Cali
• Boredom and overachieving: Dr. Cali channels her energy into building companies instead of destructive behaviors.

7. Redefining Sobriety and Recovery ([18:49]–[23:40])

• On establishing a new baseline:
  • Early sobriety can feel boring or joyless, but “eventually everything evens out to a place that's better.”
  • "Your low was never as low...and your high was never as high." [18:49] – John (John Mayer quote)
• Building a credible business:
  • From nonprofit and homelessness to $4 million business, to addiction expertise for high-level clientele.
  • Building credibility by merging fitness, psychology, and team-based approaches ([21:27]–[23:23]).
  • Expanded impact: Developed largest online addiction education academy ([23:23]–[23:40]).

8. Modern Drug Epidemics: Fentanyl & the System [23:44]–[26:32]

• Rampant fentanyl contamination of street drugs, rising lethality, and failed “war on drugs.”
• Dr. Cali prescribes a radical focus on food and lifestyle as a real solution:
  • “If you eat like garbage, you feel like garbage...you’re going to want to get high. It’s pretty simple.” [25:03]
  • The cycle of poor health, bad diet, lack of purpose, and reliance on prescription drugs.

9. Questioning Standard Treatments ([27:38]–[29:20])

• Skepticism toward quick prescription of SSRIs/antidepressants, especially for teenagers.
• Advocates for EMDR and hypnotherapy to address root causes (“somatic response” to anxiety).
• Critique of the DSM/manual-based diagnosis system without bloodwork or root-cause investigation.

10. Alternative & Non-Traditional Medicines ([29:33]–[31:45])

• Dr. Cali is open to whatever works for the individual.
• Cautions about trading one addiction for another, but strongly criticizes the FDA’s endorsement of addictive prescription drugs:
  • “They approved the fen phen that almost killed me. So why would I say it has to be FDA approved?” [30:47]
  • SSRIs can be even harder to get off than heroin ([31:29]).

11. Exercise, Nutrition, and Natural Dopamine ([32:04]–[34:38])

• First step for clients: Eliminate sugar, white flour, begin exercising (often with squats for rapid dopamine).
• Sleep and stress management as foundational:
  • “If I’m sleeping good, I’m happy. If I’m not sleeping, no one is happy.” [33:00] – John
• Practical tool: “Brain dump” – verbalizing rather than writing—improves mental clarity and sleep ([33:41]–[34:58]).

12. Families and Addiction ([35:49]–[44:54])

• Family support & codependency:
  • Traditional programs (Al-Anon, 12-step) are not always effective for everyone.
  • Dr. Cali shares her personal story of being married to a functioning addict (drummer in rock bands), the progression from prescription pills to heroin, fentanyl, and crack, and the emotional toll of watching a loved one spiral ([36:12]–[41:45]).
• Limits of logic, love, and expertise:
  • “You’re too close to the situation” – Even as an expert, being a family member changes the dynamic ([43:13]).

13. Critique of Traditional Recovery Programs ([45:06]–[46:07])

• 12-step skepticism:
  • Many meetings are “people sitting around complaining about their lives...while drinking Monster energy...smoking cigarettes...eating honey buns and Snickers—which is almost the same chemical makeup as heroin—and they’re telling me to get sober.” [45:06]
  • Advocates for doing “what works for you.”

14. If Dr. Cali Were the “Minister of Health” ([46:38]–[49:06])

• Ban over-the-counter drugs that kids can buy in gas stations.
• Get rid of white sugar and replace gas station/bodega food with healthy options.
• Overhaul education: “There’s no reason a child should be sitting in a desk for eight hours a day.”
• Addressing over-medication, especially for ADHD and anxiety in children.

15. ADHD & Harnessing Neurodiversity ([49:06]–[50:09])

• Labels are limiting; high-functioning ADHD can be a superpower if channeled into the right pursuits.
• Success comes from leveraging unique brain wiring, not medicating it away.

16. Physical Activity, School, and Societal Norms ([51:09]–[53:39])

• Return meaningful physical activity and movement to schools.
• Current food environments (cruise ships, buffets, everyday life) reflect deeper cultural and psychological issues about consumption and fulfillment.

17. Mindset, Food, and Habit Loops ([56:04]–[61:18])

• Everything ties back to mindset and self-concept.
• Food as comfort and celebration: Sugar as the focal point of events—cakes at birthdays, weddings, even divorces.
• Practical intervention: Replace seeking a dopamine hit from food/drugs with doing 50 squats or another movement ([59:10]–[60:07]).
• Progressive path: “You’re better today than you were yesterday.” ([60:59])
• Acceptance of harm reduction and “California sober” if it leads to a better life.

18. Dr. Cali’s New Book: "Airport Antics, Tales from the Terminal" ([62:04]–[63:36])

• Observational, lighthearted profiling of people seen in airports over a decade.
• "There’s a hundred in there over the ten years I’ve traveled. Some of them are really funny. I had to clean up a few..." [63:10]

19. Finding Dr. Cali

Websites:

• caliestes.com
• soberondemand.com
• theaddictionsacademy.com
  Social:
• Search “Cali Estes” on any major platform.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On addiction’s root:
  • "Addiction is not your problem. It's your solution to the problem." – Dr. Cali Estes ([07:15])
• On tough love and high-profile clients:
  • “I’m the no person. … I stand there and I’m like, ‘Are you done? Because when you’re done, I can get started.’” – Dr. Cali ([14:36])
• On what actually works:
  • “If it works for you, do it.” – Dr. Cali ([30:16])
• On sugar addiction:
  • "Sugar is the worst habit we have because it’s in everything." ([05:18])
• On traditional recovery rooms:
  • "People sitting around complaining about their lives while drinking a Monster and eating a honey bun and telling me to get sober. I can’t." ([45:06])
• On family and expertise:
  • “You’re too close to the situation. … He looked at me like, you're the wife, not, you're the expert.” – Dr. Cali ([43:14])
• On addictive patterns:
  • "Your brain goes: Oh, I know what this is. This is comfortable here...Once you break that, then the brain goes, oh, we're not gonna do that anymore." ([10:07])

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:07] – Dr. Cali recounts her personal journey to addiction recovery
• [03:57] – Signs you may be addicted
• [07:15] – Root-cause approach to addiction
• [14:50] – Epic client story: Beverly Wilshire showdown
• [16:46] – How to begin addressing your own "why"
• [23:40] – Building a premium, impactful business in addiction treatment
• [25:03] – Food, health, and the true origins of seeking escape
• [27:38] – On teens, medication, and the limits of clinical psychiatry
• [30:16] – Embracing alternative medicines and harm reduction
• [33:41] – The "brain dump" method for stress and sleep
• [35:49] – Navigating addiction as a family member
• [45:06] – Critique of 12-step and mainstream support groups
• [46:38] – Dr. Cali’s radical changes as (hypothetical) Minister of Health
• [56:04] – The infinite loop: Food, mindset, and American habits
• [59:10] – Physical movement as a dopamine substitute
• [62:04] – About Dr. Cali’s new book, "Airport Antics"

Tone & Takeaways

Dr. Cali’s approach blends tough love, no-BS advice, a relentless focus on root causes, and practical, holistic interventions. Her own lived experiences create empathy and credibility, while her unwillingness to parrot traditional dogma provides a refreshing—and sometimes controversial—perspective. The big takeaways: if you're stuck, chase your "why," try everything that might work for you, and don’t be afraid to break from the mainstream in pursuit of lasting change.

For more on Dr. Cali Estes and her programs:

• caliestes.com