From "Fat Doctor" Pills to Celebrity Addiction Expert: Dr. Cali Estes

Summary

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Escaping the Drift with John Gafford

Episode: From "Fat Doctor" Pills to Celebrity Addiction Expert: Dr. Cali Estes

Date: January 13, 2026
Guest: Dr. Cali Estes
Host: John Gafford

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid episode, John Gafford sits down with Dr. Cali Estes—renowned addiction and trauma expert, clinician, best-selling author, and host of the “Unpause Your Life” podcast. Dr. Estes shares her personal journey from struggling with addiction to becoming a go-to specialist for top performers, celebrities, athletes, and executives seeking to break destructive habits and level up their lives. Together, they explore the true roots of addiction, modern societal challenges like phone dependency and sugar, the failures of traditional recovery, and how changing mindsets, habits, and health can fundamentally transform lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Cali Estes’ Origin Story ([01:07]–[03:55])

• Early fascination with human behavior: Aspiring FBI profiler, naturally drawn to understanding "why people do what they do."
• Personal experience with binge eating and "fat doctor" pills:
  • College years: Emotional eating episode leads to a “fat doctor” prescribing fen-phen, resulting in rapid weight loss and immediate addiction.
  • After fen-phen was banned, she escalated to ephedra and speed, ending up with heart issues and repeated medical scares.
  • "I can eat anything I want, and now I'm thin. Then they discontinued fenfed. Well, I was addicted." [02:29] – Dr. Cali
  • Yoga and a supportive instructor ultimately guide her to sobriety and a new life purpose.
• Epiphany and professional pivot:
  • Addictive patterns resonate with her in an academic addiction class, leading her to pursue helping others.

2. Markers & Patterns of Addiction ([03:57]–[06:36])

• Identifying addiction:
  • Inability to let go of a behavior or substance ("If you can go two weeks without it, you’re probably not addicted").
  • Making excuses ("I can stop when I want to, I just don’t want to" = major tell).
  • Life impact: deteriorating relationships, job loss, dependence for daily functioning.
• Modern pervasive addictions:
  • Phone and digital media addiction (second to sugar).
  • "Sugar is the worst habit we have because it’s in everything." [05:18] – Dr. Cali
  • Digital life now essential for employment, banking, and even entry to buildings ([06:11]–[06:56]).

3. Root Causes: Addiction as a Solution ([07:15]–[08:29])

• Core belief: "Addiction is not your problem. It's your solution to the problem." [07:15] – Dr. Cali
  • Treatment focuses not on the substance but the underlying issue (trauma, boredom, escape, lack of fulfillment).
• The “chaos concept” and boredom: Driven professionals can fall into cycles of chaos as their "baseline" for feeling alive ([08:29]–[09:05]).

4. Breaking Negative Cycles & Resetting Baselines ([09:05]–[11:21])

• Neuropathways and comfort with “rock bottom”:
  • Addictive patterns are familiar and provide a sense of comfort.
  • "Your brain goes: Oh, I know what this is. This is comfortable here...Once you break that, then the brain goes, oh, we're not gonna do that anymore." [10:07] – Dr. Cali
• Goal: Shift from being “addicted to negative” to being “addicted to positive” wins ([11:33]–[12:23]).

5. Working with Celebrities, Executives, and Athletes ([11:23]–[16:41])

• Who seeks help:
  • For celebrities and athletes, interventions often come at the behest of agents or family and are tied to career consequences.
  • Executives often come after significant losses or ultimatums in personal life.
• Challenges in high-profile cases:
  • Celebrities: Worse due to entourages of “yes” people, rapid access to substances, and lack of real boundaries.
  • Dr. Cali’s tough-love, “no person” approach sets her apart: “I stand there and I’m like, are you done? Because when you’re done, I can get started.” [14:36]
  • Memorable story ([14:50]–[16:41]):
    • A challenging client in Beverly Hills: “He rented an entire floor...just so he could smoke weed in his underwear.”
    • Dr. Cali’s refusal to be intimidated eventually won his respect and facilitated his long-term sobriety.

6. Advice for People Struggling ([16:46]–[18:49])

• “Fix your why” mantra:
  • Lasting change only happens when you address the real reason for your behavior, not just the behavior itself.
  • "If you can figure out your why and solve your why, you can solve your problem." [17:10] – Dr. Cali
• Boredom and overachieving: Dr. Cali channels her energy into building companies instead of destructive behaviors.

7. Redefining Sobriety and Recovery ([18:49]–[23:40])

• On establishing a new baseline:
  • Early sobriety can feel boring or joyless, but “eventually everything evens out to a place that's better.”
  • "Your low was never as low...and your high was never as high." [18:49] – John (John Mayer quote)
• Building a credible business:
  • From nonprofit and homelessness to $4 million business, to addiction expertise for high-level clientele.
  • Building credibility by merging fitness, psychology, and team-based approaches ([21:27]–[23:23]).
  • Expanded impact: Developed largest online addiction education academy ([23:23]–[23:40]).

8. Modern Drug Epidemics: Fentanyl & the System [23:44]–[26:32]

• Rampant fentanyl contamination of street drugs, rising lethality, and failed “war on drugs.”
• Dr. Cali prescribes a radical focus on food and lifestyle as a real solution:
  • “If you eat like garbage, you feel like garbage...you’re going to want to get high. It’s pretty simple.” [25:03]
  • The cycle of poor health, bad diet, lack of purpose, and reliance on prescription drugs.

9. Questioning Standard Treatments ([27:38]–[29:20])

• Skepticism toward quick prescription of SSRIs/antidepressants, especially for teenagers.
• Advocates for EMDR and hypnotherapy to address root causes (“somatic response” to anxiety).
• Critique of the DSM/manual-based diagnosis system without bloodwork or root-cause investigation.

10. Alternative & Non-Traditional Medicines ([29:33]–[31:45])

• Dr. Cali is open to whatever works for the individual.
• Cautions about trading one addiction for another, but strongly criticizes the FDA’s endorsement of addictive prescription drugs:
  • “They approved the fen phen that almost killed me. So why would I say it has to be FDA approved?” [30:47]
  • SSRIs can be even harder to get off than heroin ([31:29]).

11. Exercise, Nutrition, and Natural Dopamine ([32:04]–[34:38])

• First step for clients: Eliminate sugar, white flour, begin exercising (often with squats for rapid dopamine).
• Sleep and stress management as foundational:
  • “If I’m sleeping good, I’m happy. If I’m not sleeping, no one is happy.” [33:00] – John
• Practical tool: “Brain dump” – verbalizing rather than writing—improves mental clarity and sleep ([33:41]–[34:58]).

12. Families and Addiction ([35:49]–[44:54])

• Family support & codependency:
  • Traditional programs (Al-Anon, 12-step) are not always effective for everyone.
  • Dr. Cali shares her personal story of being married to a functioning addict (drummer in rock bands), the progression from prescription pills to heroin, fentanyl, and crack, and the emotional toll of watching a loved one spiral ([36:12]–[41:45]).
• Limits of logic, love, and expertise:
  • “You’re too close to the situation” – Even as an expert, being a family member changes the dynamic ([43:13]).

13. Critique of Traditional Recovery Programs ([45:06]–[46:07])

• 12-step skepticism:
  • Many meetings are “people sitting around complaining about their lives...while drinking Monster energy...smoking cigarettes...eating honey buns and Snickers—which is almost the same chemical makeup as heroin—and they’re telling me to get sober.” [45:06]
  • Advocates for doing “what works for you.”

14. If Dr. Cali Were the “Minister of Health” ([46:38]–[49:06])

• Ban over-the-counter drugs that kids can buy in gas stations.
• Get rid of white sugar and replace gas station/bodega food with healthy options.
• Overhaul education: “There’s no reason a child should be sitting in a desk for eight hours a day.”
• Addressing over-medication, especially for ADHD and anxiety in children.

15. ADHD & Harnessing Neurodiversity ([49:06]–[50:09])

• Labels are limiting; high-functioning ADHD can be a superpower if channeled into the right pursuits.
• Success comes from leveraging unique brain wiring, not medicating it away.

16. Physical Activity, School, and Societal Norms ([51:09]–[53:39])

• Return meaningful physical activity and movement to schools.
• Current food environments (cruise ships, buffets, everyday life) reflect deeper cultural and psychological issues about consumption and fulfillment.

17. Mindset, Food, and Habit Loops ([56:04]–[61:18])

• Everything ties back to mindset and self-concept.
• Food as comfort and celebration: Sugar as the focal point of events—cakes at birthdays, weddings, even divorces.
• Practical intervention: Replace seeking a dopamine hit from food/drugs with doing 50 squats or another movement ([59:10]–[60:07]).
• Progressive path: “You’re better today than you were yesterday.” ([60:59])
• Acceptance of harm reduction and “California sober” if it leads to a better life.

18. Dr. Cali’s New Book: "Airport Antics, Tales from the Terminal" ([62:04]–[63:36])

• Observational, lighthearted profiling of people seen in airports over a decade.
• "There’s a hundred in there over the ten years I’ve traveled. Some of them are really funny. I had to clean up a few..." [63:10]

19. Finding Dr. Cali

Websites:

• caliestes.com
• soberondemand.com
• theaddictionsacademy.com
  Social:
• Search “Cali Estes” on any major platform.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On addiction’s root:
  • "Addiction is not your problem. It's your solution to the problem." – Dr. Cali Estes ([07:15])
• On tough love and high-profile clients:
  • “I’m the no person. … I stand there and I’m like, ‘Are you done? Because when you’re done, I can get started.’” – Dr. Cali ([14:36])
• On what actually works:
  • “If it works for you, do it.” – Dr. Cali ([30:16])
• On sugar addiction:
  • "Sugar is the worst habit we have because it’s in everything." ([05:18])
• On traditional recovery rooms:
  • "People sitting around complaining about their lives while drinking a Monster and eating a honey bun and telling me to get sober. I can’t." ([45:06])
• On family and expertise:
  • “You’re too close to the situation. … He looked at me like, you're the wife, not, you're the expert.” – Dr. Cali ([43:14])
• On addictive patterns:
  • "Your brain goes: Oh, I know what this is. This is comfortable here...Once you break that, then the brain goes, oh, we're not gonna do that anymore." ([10:07])

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:07] – Dr. Cali recounts her personal journey to addiction recovery
• [03:57] – Signs you may be addicted
• [07:15] – Root-cause approach to addiction
• [14:50] – Epic client story: Beverly Wilshire showdown
• [16:46] – How to begin addressing your own "why"
• [23:40] – Building a premium, impactful business in addiction treatment
• [25:03] – Food, health, and the true origins of seeking escape
• [27:38] – On teens, medication, and the limits of clinical psychiatry
• [30:16] – Embracing alternative medicines and harm reduction
• [33:41] – The "brain dump" method for stress and sleep
• [35:49] – Navigating addiction as a family member
• [45:06] – Critique of 12-step and mainstream support groups
• [46:38] – Dr. Cali’s radical changes as (hypothetical) Minister of Health
• [56:04] – The infinite loop: Food, mindset, and American habits
• [59:10] – Physical movement as a dopamine substitute
• [62:04] – About Dr. Cali’s new book, "Airport Antics"

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Tone & Takeaways

Dr. Cali’s approach blends tough love, no-BS advice, a relentless focus on root causes, and practical, holistic interventions. Her own lived experiences create empathy and credibility, while her unwillingness to parrot traditional dogma provides a refreshing—and sometimes controversial—perspective. The big takeaways: if you're stuck, chase your "why," try everything that might work for you, and don’t be afraid to break from the mainstream in pursuit of lasting change.

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For more on Dr. Cali Estes and her programs:

• caliestes.com

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Transcript

[A]

Back again, back again for another episode of. Like it says in the opening man, the podcast that gets you from where you are to where you want to go. And today in the studios, man, I got a. I got a rock star today for you guys. This person has been called the female Dr. Drew. She has been called the battery recharger. She is an expert in all things clinical psychology, neuroscience, cutting edge biohacking. She has helped clients break free from addiction, from burnout, from adhd, from anything that ails you. And I think I have have all of that. So this is going to be an exciting dive into my personal psyche today. But I am super excited to be here. She is a six time best selling author. I mean what hasn't this person does? She has a top 10 ranked self help podcast called Unpause youe Life. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Dr. Callie Estes.

[B]

Kali, that has got to be the best intro I've ever had. Yes.

[A]

They turn it off if you don't hook them. I found. Yeah, yeah, because especially on video, because I'm working with this, which is not helping. It's not helpful. Right. So I got to have good looking guests like you to make things happen. So I want to dive right into this.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Which is great. So what got you started in this field?

[B]

I'll give you the short version. Yeah, so I wanted to be an FBI agent. That was my goal. Yeah, I was going to do that.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Just because I like to figure out why people do what they do. I'm fascinated by human behavior. Like someone will tell you I want to do this and then they do something else and you're like, well, why did you do that? It doesn't make sense with what they tell you. So I always started profiling people as a young age and I could kind of get it on the mark of what they would do. Thought I'd be really good at this as an FBI agent. But I was in college studying to be an FBI agent and all the girls would go out, you know, ladies nights Thursday night, and they would all hook up with guys and I was always coming home solo. So one night I was like sitting on the floor and I'm crying and I'm eating cake with my hands. And I'll give you the visual. There's cake on me, cake on the wall, cake on the dog. Like it was bad, bad, bad meltdown. And one of my roommates walked in and she's like, dude, that's not normal. And I said, what do you mean that's not normal? I've always done that. Did that in my household. So she's like, you need to see a therapist. So I went to a counselor who said, okay, according to the dsm, you're not bulimic, you're not anorexic, you're just fat. So she sent me to the fat doc back in the 90s. Back to the fat doctor. Fat doctor put me on fen phen. So I went from £160 to £90 in two months. And I. Oh, my gosh, this is amazing, because I can eat anything I want.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

And now I'm thin. Then they discontinued fenfed. Well, I was addicted. So then I turned to rip fuel and ephedra and speed, and I became up your gas. An addict.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Real fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I ended up in the hospital in Dallas, of all places, with I thought I was having, like, a heart arrhythmia. And the doctor's like, you're eating the lining of your heart with whatever you're taking. And of course, you know, you're 23. You look at the doctor and you're like, what do you know?

[A]

I live forever.

[B]

Yeah. Ten years of medical school. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know. Six months later, New York City. Different doctor, different hospital, same scenario. That one dropped the F bomb, and he was very explicit, and he's, new York, New York, you're gonna die. And now I'm like, woo, the F bomb. This must be serious. So that's when I said, okay, something's wrong. And I tried to get sober, and I couldn't. I couldn't get off the stuff. And I didn't have money for rehab. You know, I'm a broke college student. So a friend of mine dragged me to a yoga class, and I remember it was hot. I was uncomfortable. I couldn't touch my toes. And I'm complaining. And she's like, just shut the F up and do yoga. And at the end of the class, the instructor came over and he's like, I'm gonna help you get sober. We're gonna do it on a yoga mat. And I was like, okay. So I learned to deal with my trauma and my childhood crap on a yoga mat. And I got sober, and I was like, okay. And then I said, maybe this is what I should do. So I took an addiction class, and the instructor put everything on the board and I went, that's me. Like, there was like 20, 20 markers of addiction. And I'm like, I have all 20.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So there we are. That's how I got into this.

[A]

Okay, well, so. So there's a lot of people out there that deal with substances or do it or whatever they do, and they don't think they're addicted or they don't know. So what are the markers of addiction that you saw in there that you recognize in yourself, that other people may not recognize in themselves?

[B]

Number one, you got to be able to walk away from whatever it is, whether it's your phone, you know, gambling, social media. Put it down. If you can go two weeks without it, you're probably not addicted. If you're sitting there an hour later going like this, thinking about it, ramp, you know, it's in your head and won't get out, Won't get out and won't get out, won't get out. You're probably addicted. That's the first one. The second one is you make excuses. I can stop when I want. I just don't want to. That's like the biggest tell. As soon as somebody says, I can stop when I want to, and I go, okay, do it. Well, I'm not. I don't need to. You probably are. And then the next one is, it's affecting your life. You know, friends stop coming around. You've lost your job, your wife is mad, your husband's mad. You might get a divorce. If you're into that phase, you're definitely addicted. You know, And I couldn't go without it. I couldn't get up without it. So it's sitting on my nightstand. I would knock the pill bottle over and pop a couple of them and lay there until I had energy. Then I would get out of bed like it was bad. Gosh, yeah.

[A]

Do you think that it's interesting that you brought up the phone addiction? Because I think that is a plague right now.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

On America. Do you think that's okay? So of all the addiction things we've had in America, do you think this is the most prevalent and the worst in the widespread.

[B]

Well, I'm going to tell you, I think sugar is the worst. And when I say this, I'm going to get crucified, because it got crucified on another podcast. Sugar is the worst habit we have because it's in everything. And when people say, oh, I'm not addicted to sugar, I say, well, what's in your cream or in your coffee? And they go, oh, what's in your yogurt? And they go, oh, what's in your pasta sauce? And they go, oh, that's in everything. So I think that's the number one. I think digital media, digital phone would be the second one because everything is in here. Your wallet, your social media. I mean I even have my credit cards on the back if I lose this screw. Yeah, right. So that's part of the other problem. And everything we do is tied to who's going to see this or who's going to, you know, like this. And then your self worth is tied to all the social.

[A]

Do you think there's going to be a time where there's this bubble of this is going to pop and there'll be blowback to get away from you think this is here for good and this is how it's going to be?

[B]

I teeter because Gen Z is like off of social media now. They're like, I don't want to be on it, I don't want anything to do with it. But at the same time you need it for everything. Like you want to apply for a job, you need your phone. You don't just walk in and go, can I have an application? There's no such thing. So everything is through here. Even banks are closing and you have to do online banking. So I think it's going to be forced to the point where digital is everything and that's how we communicate.

[A]

Well, I always, look, I always think about the movie Wall E. Right when they're all the fat people on that ship, they're just riding around with a screen in front of them drinking milkshakes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, is this really where we're headed? Scary? It feels like it could be, yeah.

[B]

Well, I was looking at units and a real estate agent has a phone and they unlock the door with the phone and I'm like, oh, we don't have keys anymore. Now we have phone to unlock the door.

[A]

We do, yeah, we do. It's what we do here. So yeah, that's exactly what happens. It's. Oh my God, it's terrifying. So when people come to you and, and they're like, whatever it is, I mean if it's substance or this is the treatment the same? I mean, are the, is your process the same or do you say like, okay, we're going to prescribe this method for this addiction or that method for this addiction.

[B]

So I don't treat addiction as an addiction. So this is what I say, addiction is not your problem. It's your solution to the problem.

[A]

What's your problem? Yep, that's good.

[B]

So I start with what got you here? And then they look at Me. And they go, well, you know, I'm an alcoholic. Okay, great. But you're not an alcoholic. You use alcohol as a means to escape or because you're bored. Why are you here? And then we work backwards. And it, you know, it's either they're bored because they've, you know, achieved so much. Because I deal with celebrities and executives. So they have the boat, the yacht, the girlfriend, the side girlfriend. They've traveled everywhere. They're bored.

[A]

Or best girlfriend, the side girlfriend.

[B]

They do not.

[A]

All successful men have a side girlfriend. That's not fair.

[B]

In my grouping of people in your.

[A]

Purview, they might not. Honey, if you listen to this, which I know you don't listen on my podcast ever, I do not have a side girlfriend.

[B]

There you go. No. So some of my clients. Some of my clients is a disclaimer. Have multiple players and people in the board, or they use substances or the phone or gambling as a way to numb out the life they don't like. And then when we get into it, there's trauma, or they're having a fight with their wife or girlfriend or their husband, and this is what they're using to deal with the scenario.

[A]

Yeah. Because I got to tell you, me personally, boredom is my biggest enemy. That's the thing that I get because I go so fast all day that when it slows down, it's really difficult. It has been to do that. And you're looking for something to fill.

[B]

That's the chaos concept. You like the chaos. You like 50 moving parts. Everything's going 100 miles an hour. And then when it gets quiet, you go, oh, it's too quiet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do I do? I'm bored. I'm bored. I'm bored. And your brain goes, we can't be bored. There's no downtime. So then it's looking for what trouble you can get into. And it can be something as simple as you go to the gym. You know, your brain has to fill that gap.

[A]

It's funny you talk about that. I always. Moments in my life or my early life, especially before I kind of got a hold of things and achieved success. But when I was younger, I resonated a lot. There was a movie called Two for the Money, and it had Al Pacino and About gambling, about. They were the guys that gave the pics. And there was one scene where they went to a Gambler's Anonymous meeting, and Al Pacino says to the room, he goes, you're not addicted to gambling. You're addicted to. Because the Only the only time you feel alive is when you've lost it all. You don't know how you're going to pay your bills and you don't know how you're going to get out of this scrape that you put yourself into. That's the only time you feel alive. You're addicted to losing. And the first time I heard that, when I watched that movie, I was like, holy crap, that's me. That's kind of me. Because winning, the perception of winning, became getting out of whatever trouble I got myself into. It wasn't really leveling up or getting better. It was just getting back to broke from whatever disaster I decided to put myself in financially or emotionally or whatever it was that I did.

[B]

And that's a neuropathway. So the brain, for 32 days, if you do the same thing, the brain learns the same thing. So every time you hit bottom, your brain goes, oh, I know what this is. This is comfortable here. Now we have to dig out. And you go, this is exhausting. But really your brain goes, we know the pattern. So it keeps recreating the pattern because it's familiar. Once you break that, then the brain goes, oh, we're not gonna do that anymore. Now we're gonna level up. Cause now it knows the new level. And then once you install level one, the brain goes, okay, I get level one. And then you go, we're gonna do level two and level two. Now the brain doesn't go backwards. It's gonna stick with level two and go, this is the new comfortable. If you keep doing that, that's how you get sober, how you break a pattern.

[A]

Yeah, I talk about that in my book, which is resetting your zero like everybody has financially anyway. I guess it's the same way emotionally. I talk about everybody has a definition of broken. And When I was 25, my definition of broke was literally going to the ATM, putting it in, and it's saying, you don't have any money that was broke or negative, worst case scenario, like negative 20 because you bounced the check that was broke. Now, my definition of broke is much, much different. It's like my bank accounts are, you know, my active cash hits a certain level, I'm like, whoa, that's not good. So changing that zero, and I guess resetting your expectation for what you expect out of life on every level is the same concept. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

When. When people come to you, is it normally a rock bottom thing? Is it a. I don't feel like I'm getting the most out of life. Where, where are they traditionally? Because you do a lot of high level people.

[B]

So, so celebrities and athletes, it's usually an agent that came and said, if you don't do X, you're cut on the, on the team. Oh, wow. Or you're not going to be in this movie. So they have the, they're sitting on something big. So they have to make the change. They don't want to, but they have to. And then once I get them going and we get that 32 days under their belt, then they go, okay, I kind of like this. This is good. And then they start to see wins and then they want to keep winning. Then they shift from that. I'm addicted to the negative to I'm addicted to the positive. So it's usually that with my executives, it's a big something on the line, a big deal fell through and they lost multimillion dollars and they're going, okay, what's happening? Or a death in the family occurred, or the wife said, I'm leaving. If you don't do X, I'm out. And that's big, big part of what they do or their public Persona. They have to get sober.

[A]

You know, it's funny you brought up athletes because I was at a meeting with. It was hedge funds and athletes is what this meeting was in Orange county. And it was an event for those people coming together. And it was, I think it was meta world peace that was on stage and he was talking about the problem with athletes is, you know, people tell you you're special from the time that you're eight years old and you do one thing and that's it. And so when you, when you, the time that you leave the league or whatever you're playing as a pro athlete, you, you have not advanced mentally at all. You are in such a state of rest, development because you never matured because you're just this child that's been told they were special the whole time. So that's why these guys end up making these horrendous knee jerk financial mistakes with their money. Because they're acting like 16 year old kids. Mm. How would you say that when you're dealing with. With. Are athletes worse in that way or than celebrities or is it evil? Because I mean, I would think celebrities like you probably had some struggle to get there.

[B]

Celebrities are worse.

[A]

Are they?

[B]

Here's why.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Celebrities have a team of. Yes. People around them at all times that want to be in their circle for the fame. So they literally say, I want green M and Ms. At 3am and somebody will get out of bed, go get them a bag of M&M's, and then sit there and separate M&M's and make sure they have a pile of green M and Ms. For 315 just to get the attaboy. You can hang out with me the next day. So that's harder with athletes. There's people who want their money, they're after their money. So, you know, invest in this or invest in that or give me this or give me that. You can shut that down quick. But with celebrities, there's always somebody standing by, and there's always a drug connection, and they can get it so fast, so quick, it's insanity. How. How, how they can just pull. Stop. So that's hard. And then they have the temper tantrums. So, you know, the, the meltdowns. And it's kind of like a lot of people, a lot of clinicians don't want to deal with that. So when the person screaming and yelling and calling you every name in the book, a lot of counselors and therapists go, okay, that's not appropriate. I'm not going to deal with it. I stand there and I'm like, are you done? Because when you're done, I can get started. And they're not ready for that. So I come at it from a tougher, like a tough love. And they're not used to that. They're used to yes people. And I'm the no person. I come in and I'm going to say no. The first person usually that says no. And they kind of. I don't.

[A]

They gotta respect you, though, more than they respect a lot of these people.

[B]

They do eventually, in the beginning, they want to destroy it. And I just don't know. We're not. We're not going to do that. We're not going to do that.

[A]

This is how this works.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

You're here for a reason, and that reason is you have no choice but to be here.

[B]

I can tell you funny stories.

[A]

Oh, let's have it.

[B]

You want a story?

[A]

Sure. Yeah, of course.

[B]

Okay. My favorite client. So he rented an entire floor of the Beverly Wilshire in Beverly Hills just so he could smoke weed in his underwear. That's what he did. So when I got there, the. And he was on a trust fund. So when I got there, the estate had said he had fired every counselor, every sober companion, every company. No one will work with this guy. And I'm like, challenge accepted. So I get there and I walk in and he's got a butler and a bodyguard, and he's literally in his underwear smoking weed. And he's like, what do you want? I'm like, well, I'm here for 15 days. So he says, for what? And I'm like, well, you're gonna get sober. We're gonna get this straightened out. And he looks me dead in the eyes and goes, I don't work with. And he used the C word right off the jump. And I went, that's good because I don't either. And he just stopped and he went, okay. He said, well, I don't work with it. He dropped the B word. And I went, well, neither do I. Are you gonna be one? Because then we have a problem. And he just stopped and he just blinked. And he's like, it looked like someone slapped him, like he didn't know what to do. And he goes, I hate you. And I'm like, oh, the five year old temper tantrum. I said, you can hate me. I'm gonna sit right here on the floor. So you walk around, you let me know when you're ready. So he went in, shut his door, and I'm sitting there checking my email, and he pops his head out and he goes, you're still here? Two hours later. I said, yeah, I'm here for 15 days, five hours a day. I'm already paid so you can hang out with me. I realize you just spent the money on a, that you could have bought a Tesla and you got me sitting here on the floor. Yeah, either way, this went on and on and on for like four or five hours. And finally he said, well, since you're here, come on in. And at the end of the day, the trust called and they're like, well, how did it go? And I'm like, I'm still here. And she goes, what? You're in the room? I'm like, yeah, I'm in the room. And we're about 30 minutes in, I already have him crying. And she's like, you're kidding. And I'm like, I'll call you tomorrow. Fifteen days later, he's sober. He's got 10 years sober now.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

I was the only one that could do that. Because I said, I like those cases, I like those challenges.

[A]

Yeah, give me the hardest step. Give me, give me the hardest thing, man. If again, if somebody's out there and they're, they feel like they're struggling with something and they hit those markers where it's like, I just, I can't put it down. Whatever it is, what advice would you give? Now, obviously, everybody can't come work with you and pay you what it would cost to have you sit in the Beverly Wilshire for 15 days. But what advice would you give to them for somebody that just what can you do?

[B]

So the question is, why? Why can't you put it down? If you can figure out your why and solve your why, you can solve your problem. So why are you using this thing, whatever it is? And when you get to that, you solve that. And if it's trauma, see an EMDR therapist. Go get therapy for your trauma. Once you've fixed that organically, the drinking or the drugs or whatever, it's going to go down because you're not needing it anymore. You need it to solve your why. Fix your why.

[A]

What if it's boredom?

[B]

Fix your why. Fix your why.

[A]

Why are you bored?

[B]

Why you bored? When I'm bored, I travel and create a new company at five companies. I'm bored. I'm gonna start a company. Everyone's like, what? Why not? Let's start a company. I just started a Peptide company. Everyone's like, why? Like, why not? Let's do it.

[A]

I love the Peptides.

[B]

Yeah, I love the Peptides.

[A]

It's funny, I was watching John Mayer. A clip from John Mayer the other day talking about getting sober, and he said his. His last is. The last night he drank was. I say. We said Bruno Mars's birthday party. He said his hangover was six days long. Yeah, it was that bad. That's how. That's how hammered he was. And he said he asked himself a question, which was, what percentage of. What percentage of your potential would you like to be operating at? And he said, 100%. He goes, okay, we don't have to have this conversation more. He goes, when I first quit drinking, like, the excitement level on the fun level, which is what everybody thinks. He goes, everybody thinks that, you know, it's going to be. Everything's gonna be boring. And it is for a while because everything comes down and then you hit, like, a new baseline that you establish a new baseline, and then everything kind of comes back up. It's no longer like, I'm here, and then I'm here. Everything kind of evens out to a place, which better. And you realize, you know, your low was never as low as you. As you were, and your high was never as high as you were. So is that. Do you agree? Obviously you're shaking your head yes. What's your thoughts on all that?

[B]

Yeah. So it's. It's Learning what you know, where is that baseline? We're always chasing the next high. How high can I get? And it's just like, I don't know if you've ever done cocaine, but the first time you do cocaine, you're like, wow, this is amazing. Every time you do it after that, you will never get that same high. It's a once and done. And people chase that dragon consistently going, I want that hot. You can't, you can't do it. It's not happening. Your brain is already done. So for me, when I tell my clients, you've got to decide what you really want. Like, I'm in Vegas right now, right. A lot of people like, oh, did you gamble? Did you drink? You know what I did, I went to bed last night at 9:30.

[A]

God bless.

[B]

And I woke up at 6:00 o' clock so that I could get a cup of coffee and walk four miles up and down the Strip. That's my thing when I'm in Vegas. And they're like, that's what you do when you come to Vegas. Like, yeah, I love that early morning walk. I can watch the sun come up over the Charleston mountain and I just love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they think I'm crazy. I'm like, that's my baseline. That gives me joy more than going to the shows and drinking and gambling and watching the sun come up because I didn't sleep. That's not joyful anymore. That's a lot of work.

[A]

Well, the trade off, the, that's the problem is when you're young, the trade off is very minimal. At least it perceives to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Go out and drink till three in the morning. I mean, I can remember back in the day, like, oh, get home at 5 and then you get up and you still make it to work and you're fine. I mean, my wife will tell stories growing up, hear about like leaving the club and then going and opening the spot Tropicana, like right from one to the other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like in the car changing clothes. You can't do that after a while. Like the, like the bill gets a little steeper. Right.

[B]

And the hangover gets a lot longer.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, a little steeper. And you can't do it. Yeah. It's so funny. I found myself now even when I'm not a teetotaler by any, any stress. Imagination. But what used to be, like we went out, we went out a couple weeks ago and I had like three drinks. That was it, right? Like three drinks. And I would say I was overserved right. And I'm thinking to myself, I woke up the next morning with my wife and I was like, man, good lord, I was dreadful last night. And I said, yes. I looked at the bill, I said, the thing I'm happiest about is I only had three drinks. Like that was nothing 20 years ago, but now it's like three would wipe me out. So that, that baseline has now changed. I'm like, okay, I gotta be a little bit more easy with this thing as we go along. How do you go from starting out a practice like this? Because obviously, you know, like here, my company here, we're a luxury real estate brokerage is what we do. So we deal with a lot of high net worth clients and a lot of high people as well. But my question is, anybody that has a business, I think, wants that clientele and wants to deal with those people. So how do you build a business worthy of getting that kind of notoriety that you become the go to in that level of circle?

[B]

So I started nonprofit. That's where I started. And when I was, I don't know, 25 maybe, I realized I couldn't pay my student loan, my car payment and my rent payment in the same month as in working at a nonprofit. And I loved helping people. But I said, this is stupid. Why can't I get ahead? And I quit the industry. I started a fitness company and I scaled it from. I had 300 bucks in my bank account and I was literally living in my car. I was homeless. And I said, I'm going to put this out. And in about two and a half years, I made it into $4 million profit company. And I was like, I can do this. And the economic downturn of 08 hit. I lost everything. Homeless again. I'm like, okay, here we are, back to the, you know, homeless. I've been been here before. We'll do it again. So I started at this company and I went, I'm going to merge what I know in the fitness company with this world and I'm going to scale it and I'm only going to do the top 1 to 5% because I know my net worth, I know what I bring to the table. I and I just did 10 years in nonprofit, you know, working my ass off. So here we go. So I came into it that way. And I was doing a speech in West Palm beach at the Breakers. I was actually speaking on coaching versus therapy. And a woman was in my room because she wanted to hear what I said. And afterwards she walked up and she said, I want to hire you for my daughter. She didn't tell me who she was. I just said, okay. And I just spitballed prices out, and I just dumped the number out there, figuring, see what happens? And she took it. And I'm like, okay. And then she told me who her daughter was, and I was in the Hollywood Hills the next week. I was like, oh, wow.

[A]

Like, okay, here we go.

[B]

Here we go. And then I was in. So once I did that and got her sober, then it was, here's a referral. Here's a referral. Because I did it so differently, and I brought the whole team to the house. So it was a detox doc, a nurse, and. And then myself, and then a sober companion, and then a therapist. And we did what treatment couldn't do in 30 days. And as we started to do it and prove proof of concept, people went, there's something to this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then from there, it was just, call Cali. Just call Cali. And then I started a school. So I have the largest addiction school online in the world as far as.

[A]

Learning how to treat or learning.

[B]

Just learning how to do what we do. So we have 45 classes. So if somebody says, I want to be a sober companion or a counselor, they come to us and we train them. So we have 45 courses. We've trained 60,000 students. We've trained 400 rehabs, and we're in 40 countries.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

So, yeah, so that was the next piece of what I do is. Let's put that out there.

[A]

Yeah. That's amazing.

[B]

So now we can establish credibility.

[A]

It seems like when you talk about substance abuse, it seems like drugs are just getting so much worse. Like, this whole fentanyl thing. And you see these people just, like, looking like zombies and whatever they're doing, laying on, I mean, Andy Dick yesterday, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Please call him. Good Lord, that dude needs some help. I saw that he was all fentanylled out laying on the streets of, like, Hollywood yesterday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, and that stuff apparently isn't like, everything. Like, you can't buy any kind of illegal drug and not assume that it has that stuff in it, which is terrifying for me as a parent. Like, that's terrifying.

[B]

It's in everything.

[A]

Like, we were kids. Like, you could experiment, you could do things and blah, blah. And it seemed like, okay. Especially in Florida, you're like, okay, yeah, we can do some crazy shit. Yeah, no, you can't do that anymore because literally anything that you touch could kill you in any second. So with this stuff Getting worse like this. Do we need more people in that? Like, what's the solution? Because obviously right now you've got a serious, like, war on drugs going up in Venezuela with, you know, boats getting blown up, which I totally support. I mean, fine, yeah, you do that. You deserve to get blown up. I don't have any sympathy for you, but obviously, we've been trying to fight the war on drugs since the 80s, right? Reagan started the war on drugs. We haven't won yet. It's been 40, 50 years. So as somebody that sees this every day, what do you think if you had to pick a solution? Now, granted, I'm not trying to get you into geopolitical conversation, but you obviously have got to have a good opinion.

[B]

About this, so I'm going to go a completely different direction on you.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Okay. I think it has to start with education, but also what you put in your body. If you're eating garbage, you feel like garbage. If you like garbage, you're going to want to get high. It's pretty simple. So if you eat Burger King, I'm going to get sued one day by these companies. Burger king, Wendy's, McDonald's, all of it is absolute garbage.

[A]

We're with Chili's on this podcast, so you can hate on Chili's if you like.

[B]

You know what? Their food is horrible, by the way.

[A]

Screw you, chilies.

[B]

So add that to the mix. You eat like that, you don't work out, you don't get any sun. You sit in a desk eight hours a day or sit in a classroom eight hours a day. What's happening is you're not operating at optimal level. If you're not operating at optimal level, you're going to want an escape. That's why you see people, they work all day and they say, well, it's 2 o'. Clock. And they go, oh, it's 2 o'.

[A]

Clock.

[B]

I'm here till 5. I'm going to have a candy bar or I'm going to get a Starbucks. And it's not a. They're not getting a coffee. They're getting like, yeah, to reward themselves to make it to five o'. Clock. That's where this comes in. And then they're depressed, they go to the doctor, they get an ssri. Now they're on Prozac or Wellbutrin or Garbage or Xanax. And next thing you know, they're on legal drugs, which turn into illegal drugs. So for me, I tell everybody, you start eating right, you start working out, you start Lowering your cortisol and figure out what your purpose in life is. And stop doing a 9 to 5 job because you think you have to figure out why you're here. You'll never want to get high. It's that simple. But people go, it can't be that simple. It is that simple. So that's what I do with my clients. I take them out of their idea of what society says you should do and make it happen. Because the drugs aren't going to stop. The drugs are going to get worse.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know how much worse they could get.

[B]

Oh, it's going to get worse.

[A]

Good Lord. It's interesting because you say that because my son, who is 18, will be 18 in March. He's 17 now, but he's through the years of settled with it, suffered with his tick. Like it's just non stop throat clearing. And so we finally were like, okay, listen, you're getting ready to go to college. Your roommate's going to kill you if you do this right. We've got it. We got to get a handle on this through some sort of occupational therapy. We've got to figure out how you can get a hold of this. And one thing about Vegas is it's very limited with the healthcare that we have here. It's very limited. There's some great doctors here, but we just don't have enough for the amount of people we have, especially specialists that do really specialized things. And so we took him to a neurologist yesterday and one of her suggestions was, oh, he has anxiety, that's why he does it. So he needs to be on antidepressant. We were like, I don't really think that's gonna be the way we want to go. Like, I'd rather do some occupational therapy. But I think you hear that and I think doctors are so quick to want to do that. I mean, that just seemed like a really weird thing for them to say. So much anxiety can a 17 year old kid have?

[B]

I'm going to give you two things. Send him to an EMDR therapist or hypnotherapist. Okay, I'll give you that afterwards. That's going to. Because you. That's going to get to the root of why it's happening. Physically. It's a somatic response to a problem. Somatic means physical.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So he's physically responding to something in his head. So I agree with the anxiety, I agree with her diagnosis, I do not agree with her solution. So for me, you got to think of it this way. I'm a clinician. I'm a psychologist. If someone comes to me, I'm very different. The normal psychologist, you go, when you say having anxiety, they open up the DSM and they say, well, according to this, okay, you have anxiety and os. I'm going to diagnose you. You're going to get a. This drug. I don't agree with that. That's the only medicine where we don't blood test. If I walked into an ER and I said, I'm having stomach pain, they're not going to go, oh, you have an ulcer, according to the book. Take this. They're going to go, hang on. We're going to do this test, this test, this test and this test. We're going to rule all this stuff out and then give you the proper medication. You may lay in the ER for five hours in pain because they don't know what you have. We don't do that in psychology. We give you drugs based upon a book from 50 years ago. Stupid. So welcome to my world. I've been fighting that to not do that. So I fight other therapists and I fight psychologists because I think it's wrong. So her diagnosis correct, her solution incorrect. I think that's bad medicine. In fact, I think that's inhumane. I'm gonna get slaughtered on your podcast.

[A]

No, we're not doing it.

[B]

I think it's a disservice to your son because now he's gonna get addicted to whatever she put him on.

[A]

No, no, no, no. We're not doing that.

[B]

If he took it, he would be addicted to it and then never be able to get off of it. And coming off of that stuff is even worse than going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So for me, I want to get to the root. Like, why is there a tick? It's a somatic response. What's causing that? Hypnotherapy and emdr. I'll tell you right away what's causing it.

[A]

I love it. Okay. Yeah, that's what we're gonna do. I'd love to get that number when we're done with her. I love how. See, this is like. That's why I love my podcast. It's like, I go to the doctor, I don't pay a copayment. There's nothing.

[B]

There's no.

[A]

Nothing's happening here. It's great. I love it. This is amazing.

[B]

Wait till my ask at the end. I'm gonna have an ask.

[A]

Whatever you want. This is incredibly helpful. I love this. So with it seems there's been A real rise in the last maybe 10. 10 years, probably, maybe since Joe Rogan got popular of non traditional medicines and especially to treat trauma and stuff. You hear about, you know, you got Aaron Rodgers going to the jungle and drinking, you know, ayahuasca, and now everybody's a backyard shaman, it seems like. Come to my house in. In, you know, San Diego and we'll have a ceremony. Okay. Dude, I'm probably okay. Where are you with. With the rise of non traditional medicine that, you know, the FDA or not fda, but, you know, the government has traditionally labeled as bad for you.

[B]

So two things. So first of all, in addiction and in mental health, I think if it works for you, do it. That's how I've always said, if you try something outside the box and it worked, then that works for you and run with whatever that is for you. Now, if you become addicted to the thing that's supposed to solve your problem, then that didn't solve your problem. You just traded addictions. So we have that. Yeah, but you have to think of this, too. The fda.

[A]

Well, it's like, what was that movie, the Royal Tannen Bombs, where she was on the gut, she started smoking cigarettes to get off the nicotine.

[B]

And that's trading one addiction for another right there. Yeah, but think about the fda. They've approved Xanax. They're approving Wellbutrin, they're approving Prozac. They approved the fen phen that almost killed me. So why would I say it has to be FDA approved when it does so much harm to the body when you do something? And I'm just going to throw marijuana in the mix. Marijuana is fairly safe compared to anything on the FDA scale.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So I would rather see somebody take a gummy, you know, with 25 milligrams of indica or sativa, then shoot heroin number one or be stuck on an SSRI.

[A]

So, wow, you just compared. You just compared antidepressants to heroin. Are they equally as addictive? I mean, they're that bad.

[B]

They're harder to come off. Heroin is going to be. You're going to be on the floor thinking you're dying for three days, and then your body's going to start to come back. When you're on an ssri, it's years to come off. Like, it is bad. It's horrible. It messes up your brain. It messes up your body. I would not take an ssri.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Well, let's talk about this. Let's talk about. Because a big part of what you do as well is going to be the exercise component and the physical side of it. So somebody comes to you and they're having addiction issues Again. What. You mentioned yoga earlier. What. What do you think is the. Does it matter what you do? Is there something that's more effective than others? Like, what would you say?

[B]

So I do a lot of different things. Usually I have them start with squats because they come in there like, I'm depressed, I'm tired, I'm this. And I have them do 50 squats and they go, oh, my goodness, I feel amazing because the dopamine just shot into their brain. So it's all about dopamine leveling out. So exercise is huge. They have to get into some program. They come off sugar with me, they come off white flour with me. So when they come in, I tell them, this is what we're going to do. And they kind of like, I don't know. I'm like, trust me, if you're going to get rid of it, of, of all the substances, let's just do it all. You know, you're going to feel like crap for two weeks and then you're going to feel amazing. So I take the sugar out of the diet. So we have nutritionists, we have an exercise person, all of this stuff, and they start to feel better. When you feel better, you don't want to get high. It's pretty simple, you know, if you feel great and you're going to the gym every day and your friends call and say, hey, we're going to go get drunk tonight. You're going to go, oh, I, you know, I worked out. I feel good. I'll have one with you or two with you or three with you. But I'm not going to be up all night drinking with you because I know how I'm going to feel tomorrow.

[A]

Well, it's funny you mentioned that because for me, it's like sleep is the number one driver for everything. Like, everything is driven by sleep. If I'm sleeping good, I'm happy. I'm good. If I'm not sleeping, nobody's happy. And I find we talked about before we went on the air, you know, my biggest issue is, you know, I'll go to bed at. I got to go bed late. I go to bed early. Like 9:30 is what time I normally go to bed. And then 4am I wake up and like the circus is on 3:30. I wake up, the circus is going, and it's like. And it's not like it's not like regrets from my life and all of these past traumas that I'm reliving. It's okay. I gotta start working on this and I gotta get that done. And then this person could probably do this. And we gotta. You know, man, I should probably really move that over here. And I gotta call that guy because I haven't called him.

[B]

I'm gonna give you a solution to this.

[A]

Please.

[B]

Okay. Before you go to bed, you're gonna do this. First wake up, you're gonna do this. This is called a brain dump. Known for do it. How do you do it?

[A]

I take. I have my list on my phone and I literally write. I have a to do list. No. Okay, they give me your solution.

[B]

You're going to set your alarm for five minutes on your phone and you're going to hit the record button and you're going to talk for five minutes. Because when you write, it slows things down. You're going to talk. Okay, I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to this. Oh, yeah, yeah. I have to do that. And you're going to keep going. What's going to happen is one of two things. You're going to keep talking and that alarm will go off. You set it for another five minutes and you talk another five minutes. Or the alarm will go. Or you'll sit there and go, okay, I'm out of stuff. And you'll get like four minutes left or three minutes left or two minutes left. Your goal is to fill that five minutes of all the stuff in your head. You do it right before you go to bed on your phone. And then the first thing when you wake up, you do it again. Same exact scenario. So now disclaimer. Don't wake your wife up in bed doing this. Go in the other room.

[A]

I go to bed before she does. She gets it. I go to bed before she does. I get up before she does.

[B]

Okay, so try that. Try it with the verbal and not the writing. Because things are different when you write. And if you're gonna. If you're gonna write, don't type it. Take pen and paper. Your brain thinks differently on pen and paper. Cause it crosses in the middle. As opposed to typing. Typing to something different.

[A]

Okay. Cause I have like, my. What I've traditionally done up until tonight when I'll change to your method.

[B]

Cause it's.

[A]

I'm gonna take your word for it. It's better than mine. But what I've traditionally done is literally, I just have like a to do app that I Use. And I just put as many to dos in it as I can. Like, everything, everything I could possibly want to do, I'll just do it.

[B]

See how fast your brain is though. So it takes you longer to type. Your brain is already five things ahead.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

Okay. That's why you're going to talk, because you're going to keep up with your brain. So the brain thinks 400 words per minute. On the average brain, yours is going to be higher. The brain, the mouth speaks 200. So you're gonna. Your brain is still gonna go faster than your. Your word. You can't type that fast. It's not possible. So do it verbally and just keep going. Just spitball it out, spitball it out, spitball it out until it's done. Until you sit there and go, okay, I think I got everything.

[A]

I think I got it all out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you. Let me ask you this. So we talked about it, obviously we talked a lot about addiction from a first person standpoint. Right. The person's having it. The family members are people that are also affected by this directly. They're there. I mean, are they part of the. I mean, how important is it for counseling for those folks? I mean, obviously there's like, what was it? Anon or what is it called?

[B]

Alanon Al.

[A]

Anon. That's what it is.

[B]

So I'm not a big.

[A]

I was gonna.

[B]

This is where I was going.

[A]

Well, this is where I was going was. Was the traditional stuff that's out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, where are you with that? That's where I was kind of heading with it.

[B]

So I'm also. I was the spouse of an addict. My husband passed away from long term use of heroin and fentanyl.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Oh, yeah. So was he functional?

[A]

Was he high function?

[B]

Very functional. He was microdosing fentanyl and killing it. Yeah. Yeah. Until his organs started shutting down. His hepatic artery burst from the gallbladder to the liver. He almost died. Then he had to have gallbladder surgery. Wouldn't go.

[A]

He was an executive. I'm assuming he was a professional guy.

[B]

He was a drummer in a rock band. No, I did not marry the executive. My mother was not happy.

[A]

Married the drummer in a rock band.

[B]

Yeah, that story is funny. I didn't get married till I was 34. So when I called him like, hey, I'm engaged, she's like, oh, is it a doctor? Is it an attorney? No. She goes, what does he do? I said, he's a drummer and a rock band. And she goes, oh, honey, like famous rock band.

[A]

Like somebody we would know.

[B]

Not, not famous. I mean, he played with Hinder and Buck Cherry here and there, but he had his own band. All right. He was more studio. He played with Eric Sardines and Big Motor, which is Orange County Blues. Yeah, he was with them for a while. But had he not been doing drugs, he would have been way better at what he.

[A]

At his craft, the John Mayer thing. He was getting probably 60% out of his potential.

[B]

He was probably getting 30 by the time he passed away. Yeah.

[A]

That's dreadful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when you met. Well, let's talk about you a little bit. When you met him, did you know he was an addict? Let's shift. We'll come back to the thing about.

[B]

He was in recovery. So he had a. He had over a year clean. And it was. Cocaine was his drug of choice. So we both were uppers people. We're both adhd, you know, and we're in New York City. And he was fun and sober fun. So I had a blast. We had a blast. And we ended up getting married for six years. It was great. And then one day on a gig he had, his back was hurting and one of the guys gave him an Oxy. This has gone way back, I think 2014, 2015. And he took the oxy and he says it didn't work. And the guy goes, snort it. So he crushed it and snorted and he's like, oh. And he got addicted to it. And then what?

[A]

Once one pill.

[B]

Well, he never took one pill. He took many pills. And his habit. Yeah, he had a ten pill a day habit, which back then was $3 a pill. So 30 bucks. And when they, you know, canned the pill mills, that 30 day, you know, $30 a day habit became a 300 a day habit.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

Fast. And then it became a heroin habit. And then he crashed the BMW and then he got arrested and then he got carjacked and the SWAT was at my house. And then it was bad. We had 14 cars. He crashed 13 of the 14. The only one he didn't crash is the one I'm still driving my Jeep Wrangler.

[A]

But. But is somebody. Okay, so you saw this, you knew this was happening?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you straight he. Was he trying to hide it for you or did you see it?

[B]

He hid it from me for two years because I was traveling so much, so I didn't know. And I would come home and, you know, he would pawn stuff and then be able to get it back. So I didn't know. I had no idea. And then things started to happen, and I took him on a trip, and he detoxed on the trip. And that's how I knew. I'm like, you're addicted to opiates. So then it became, we're going to get you sober. And then he would get, like, a pocket of sobriety. A year here, a year there. And then his dad died, and it was like, oh, you know, that started up again. And then he got that year sober again, and we'd be, you know, back to normal. And then something else would trigger. He got kicked off the tour with Eric Sardines. So then after that, it was like, okay, new trigger. And then another year, and then he'd get another year sober. So he was getting pockets of sobriety. But then he would go backwards. And then Covid hit band fell apart. He had nowhere to go. It was constant use. And I said, I want a divorce. And he went, sign. And then the court shut down. He's like, well, you can't get one anyway. And the state of Florida. Then it was, well, you're going to get half of everything. And I'm like, you'll overdose if you get half of everything. You'll be dead in two days. So then it was like, what do I do? There's that moral dilemma. So I kept him on a short leash, and I said, all right, you live here, I'll live there. You know, and you have a very small allowance. You have food and rent. Yeah, that's it. I'm not giving you cash. And he would always find cash. I don't know how he did it. I didn't want to know. But at that point, I was like, I just want out. I'm done. And then actually, the day he died, I finally told him, I'm like, you can have everything. I'm walking. You can have all of it. I don't care. And you're talking five cars, a beach house, a tour bus. And he's like, all of it. I'm like, you can have it all. Even the bank account. I'm done. I can't with this anymore.

[A]

I'll start. I'll start over.

[B]

No problem, right? And he finally said, I'll sign your paperwork. And I was like, okay. And then he went to visit a friend in Naples, which is five hours away because I was in Hutchinson Island. And that's when the friend called the next day. And he's like, I don't think he's coming back. And I was like, oh, wow. And there was no drugs on him. I thought for sure it was an overdose. I mean, it's got to be an overdose.

[A]

And it wasn't.

[B]

There was nobody. It was a heart attack.

[A]

Just years of just beating on your body like that.

[B]

Yeah. Because he was mixing fentanyl crack. I had no idea that either.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

When he passed away, the house. House was full of crack pipes.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

His. His side. And the entire refrigerator was covered in fentanyl. I was like, wow.

[A]

I mean, I guess, you know, it's weird because, you know, I think everybody, you know, all of us, especially from the early, you know, 90s in Florida, have a little bit of a raucous past, I guess. But there's always these lines, and, like, you just don't. Like, you look at it, and you're like, I don't understand. What would ever possess somebody with. I mean, maybe it was just bad press it's gotten over the years, but what would possess you to smoke crack or do heroin? Like, the first time? Like. Like what? Where are you. That. That seems like a good idea. The first time. Like, you have to know where this is headed. I just. It's.

[B]

Yeah, it's. Well, what. Once you start opiates, it's physical withdrawal. Like, cocaine isn't physical. It's all mental opiates. You have vomiting and you have diarrhea and you have restless legs.

[A]

You're gonna be sick.

[B]

You have all these symptoms. So he had been doing oxy for two years, and I didn't know. And then it was heroin. That was a mess. And then he couldn't get off it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he never want to finish the detox. And I'm like, you know, you could. You could throw the detox with suboxone, but he always take it too early. He'd be in precipitated withdrawal. And then it was always a mess. And I was like. Our book, the I married a junkie two opens up with him in precipitated withdrawal at 35,000ft in first class, sitting next to me, puking in a magazine. And I had no idea that he was in precipitated withdrawal. And he put himself in. But taking a Suboxone on a flight. Yeah, a key was off the charts because I. You got to remember, I travel a lot, so I'm gone 15 days out of the month with clients or somewhere. And then I'd come back and he could maintain for that period of time. And then it would. You know, it would escalate again after that, though. But being, you know, being a family member is tough because you're watching it happen and you're helpless. So he had therapists, he had coaches. I offered rehab, offered everything.

[A]

Okay. So how frustrating is. Okay, so I. I'm gonna think about this on, like, a micro level, right? On like a micro level. Because here I am, I just wrote a book on, like, how to take accountability and goal setting, all this stuff, and how to take control of your life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when my kids do the dumbest stuff, I have teen kids and they're acting dumb. I look at myself in the mirror and I go, I wrote this book to save people, and I can't even get my damn kids to do so. Like, I can't. Like, I'm looking at myself like, you're a fraud. Because you can't get your damn children to do what they're supposed to do. Like, who are you to tell these people? Like, was that a shot to your ego? When you're like, here I am now.

[B]

And let me tell you what.

[A]

Okay, cool. Yeah, let me have it. Make me feel better about my life.

[B]

I'm going to. You're too close to the situation. The kids look at you as, dad, dad, come on. And he looked at me like, you're the wife. Not. You're the expert in this. You're my wife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the kids are looking at you like, that's dad. Dad. What does dad know? Because think about it. When you were a teenager, you went, okay, right? But if you had an expert come in and go, wait a minute, this is what you need to do. They might go, eh. And then they might try it. So that's why I brought in, you know, the experts. I brought in other people. He had coaches and therapists, and he didn't listen to them. And I'm like, I got nothing. If you're not going to listen to them and you're not going to listen to me, what am I supposed to do? I'm out of options.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and that's the hard thing with addiction is you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink. And you could say, hey, this is what's going to happen. You're going to end up. And then his. When his artery burst in July, I said to him, I'm like, if you don't stop using, you will die. This is where we are. You're going to die. And he was like, I'm invincible. His whole thing was, it's been a good run. He would always Say it's been a good run. And I'm like, you really not care if you die? And he's like, I'll never die. Because he always got so close. He had so many overdoses. Five overdoses.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

And all the car crashes, and he never went to jail. He went to jail before me, but, like, not for, like, he. He was driving in the BMW in Miami, of all places, and he nods out at a red light, and he's got baggies everywhere, heroin baggies. And the cop, he says to the cop, oh, I have low blood pressure. And the cops sent him on his merry way. And I'm like, why can't somebody arrest him? You know, slow him down?

[A]

And Miami.

[B]

Miami was bad. So I moved to SAT in Miami. And he would just go back to Miami when I wasn't there. And I'm like, all right, I'm done. Like, there's only so much you can do before you go. I can't with the crazy anymore.

[A]

Yeah, I'm finished.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, well, let's shift back to talking about traditional health. Like we talked about Al Anon and the traditional 12 step programs. I mean, what's broken in those programs?

[B]

Here's how I see them. And. And I know I'm going to get slaughtered. Most of those programs are people sitting around complaining about their lives. Now, why they're doing that, they're saying, nobody should, you know, you should always be sober, and you have to complete 100% abstinence. You can never have another drink or drug while they're drinking. A monster energy, which is a drug. Smoking cigarette while they're smoking a cigarette, which is a drug while they're eating. A honey bun and a Snickers bar, which is sugar, which is the most addictive drug on the planet, which is almost the same chemical makeup as heroin. And they're telling me to get sober. I'm sorry, I can't. And I went to meetings in the beginning, and I couldn't do it. I can't get sober with all the other drugs around. So for me, I tell my clients, you can go. If it works for you, do it. If that's what works for you, do it. But most people go, I can't do it. I can't do it in the room or there's somebody up there preaching or whatever the issue is. So, I mean, I've kind of been that the alternative to that. I do have clients that go, and I have clients that won't go.

[A]

Well, let me ask you this, okay? So one day when I get, when I become king, and God willing, that will happen. Not president, just straight king. I decide to make Dr. Callie my. We will call you Secretary of Health. We're going to call you Minister of Health at this point because I got to change it up a little bit just so people understand there's a difference. Right. So I make you the Minister of Health of my new, my new kingdom, which will be United States. I think I know a little bit about what you're talking about. So what would you do? And do you think our current health secretary is doing a good job?

[B]

I am not going to answer things on the grounds that it's going to incriminate me.

[A]

I think about my new regime or about our current situation in the current system.

[B]

I think there are great things about our current system. I think there's some pitfalls for me. The first thing I would outlaw that I do not like is that you can buy over the counter drugs in a gas station that these kids are taking and they're getting addicted to kava kava or something. What is it that the kava's there? And they.

[A]

There's a new one I just read about. It's like as a parent, you just got to constantly read about this stuff.

[B]

That's the first thing I would outlaw is when you go to a gas station or little Punjabi place or bodega, there are no over the counter drugs like that for teens. They're behind the counter. You're 21, you want to take this stuff, take it. Yeah, but these kids are taking way too much steps. That's the first thing I would do. The second thing I would do is get rid of. I'm going to get crucified. Get rid of sugar. White sugar needs to go. So when you walk into like a gas station, it's junk. It's all junk. So if I were Minister of Health, Minister of Health in this kingdom, I would get rid of sugar and I would replace it with healthy food. And then I would require physical activity. The other thing I would do is turn our entire school system upside down. There's no reason that a child should be sitting in a desk, staring at a board for eight hours a day, trying to learn. You know, if you're going to learn about biology, go out in the garden and learn how to garden. They should be in the dirt, doing things, moving. They sit them still. And health is what, an hour, twice a week? Like the system's backwards. That's why you have kids that can't sit still. And then we're putting them on ADHD medication at age six. Well, Adderall is legal. Methamphetamine. Yeah. Now they're addicted to Meth. And by the time I get them at 18, when the doctor goes, well, you're 18 now, we're going to discontinue your drug. I'm like, you can't do that. They're brain formed on that. So that's where I would start those. Those three big topics. I would overhaul that and everybody would be in an uproar because it's change. People don't like change.

[A]

Again, I'm the king. What are they going to do?

[B]

You're the king. You're in charge.

[A]

What are they. What are they going to do, Kelly? They can't do anything.

[B]

They can overthrow the regime.

[A]

No, no, There'll be a whole military thing. It's a whole. There'll be moats, there'll be protection. They can't overthrow me. I'm too smart for that. Let me ask you this. So where you mentioned adhd, where do you. Where there seems to be a rise. So how much of this is. Is real and how much of this is. Is imagined, labeled?

[B]

I don't like labels. So when I say adhd, let me tell you what I mean. I don't like labeling people. I believe in taking who you are and using it to your advantage. Most successful business people, we all have ADHD. You know why? Our brain is like 15 tabs at all times. I have this, I have this. I have this, I have this, I have this. While you and I are talking, I'm over here going in the back of my head all the things I have to do with my staff, when I have to do it, when I have to do this, when I have to do that. And so are you. And you're probably thinking about the kids and dinner and what you got, what's going on on the weekend, that's adhd. But if we can take that and harness it in business, we become very successful. So my thing is, when I sit with a client, I say, what are you good at? Even if you were told you have anxiety or you have autism, let's take that and let's make that your focal point and build that up and run with it. Because if you're in your power and doing the things you should be doing, you're not going to want to get high. You're going a million miles an hour. So if you learn how to harness that, you'll be super successful. I've Built every company using my ADHD as an advantage, not a deficit.

[A]

It. You mentioned, you mentioned autism is a thing. Let's just make sure YouTube never plays this video. Let's make sure we get no clicks from this. You mentioned autism. Obviously there's a lot of opinions on why the rise of that in this country versus other countries that we don't have. You know, this has been too good. I want YouTube to play it. So I don't want to go down that because they won't play it if we go too far down that, that road. So let's, let's change gears from that a little bit and let's talk about something different because, yeah, I wanted to ask you that question, but literally it's more important to me that I think people actually hear the rest of this. And there's certain things that we talk about. YouTube doesn't ever want to play them. That's just how it works. And, and that being one of them. So I don't want to do that. So in dealing with kids in this country. Right. Is dealing with the kids. Obviously you talked about changing the school stuff. I remember like when I was a kid they had like the, the presidential like fitness award and all the stuff that. Why did we take fitness out of schools, do you think? And made it such an emphasis and how do we change that and get a it back?

[B]

I don't have the answer to why we took it out, but I think it needs to go back in. Not necessarily a competition like who can stretch farther, who can run the mile. I mean self disclosure. I'll give you a funny story. When I was 14, they had that mile that you had to run. And one of my best friends, she would win it every year. Her name is Maria. She did every year. And she's going to listen to this. So she'll, I'll give her a shout out for that. And then there was me and my three friends smoking cigarettes, walking two miles an hour around the track with the instructor going, Ladies, ladies, 30 minutes. Can we, can we finish this? And we didn't care. We just didn't care, you know, so it wasn't important. So I don't think competition needs to be necessary. But I think teaching people, you know, how to exercise and what do you like? Like we didn't have options. It was archery or dodgeball. I'm like, oh, I don't want to shoot things and I don't want to throw things. So what else do you have? Nothing. Yeah. You know, and then it was gymnastics and I'm like, well, I'm deaf in this year. I have poor balance, so I don't want to do that either. What else do you have? Nothing.

[A]

It's interesting you bring up competition because it seems to me that when the world became this place of everybody is okay as you are, it's perfectly fine to be morbidly obese. It's perfectly fine to be this everybody's okay. Like, we wanted to have this everybody's okay who they are thing. Over the last several years, it seems like people are much more unhappy now that the world is telling them it's okay to be something that probably is not good for them.

[B]

So that goes back to Chemistry, okay? So if you physically inside don't feel good because you're eating the garbage food, which makes you obese, and you physically don't feel good, you're going to be depressed. So when you're eating that fast food again, there are chemicals in there that cause depression, that cause you to want to eat more, which causes you to be more depressed. McDonald's even came out, said it, and people are just like, well, I'm just gonna have that. And they keep doing it. And if you're not happy, I don't care what you weigh. That's how I say it. I don't care what you weigh or how you look. If you're physically not happy with yourself, the only person that can change that is you. So you have to say to yourself, okay, I don't want to feel this way. It's not just look this way. It's, I don't want to feel like this. And if you don't want to feel like that, you change it. And that requires changing your diet. That requires going to the gym. I have a friend that just had gallbladder surgery, and she said to me last night, she goes, where are you? And I said, I'm at a steakhouse. I just got in from the, you know, a flight. She goes, what are you eating? I sent her a picture. I had a side salad and a ribeye. And she goes, where's your potato? I said, I'm not having one. She goes, where's your bread? I said, I'm not having one. She goes, where's the dessert? I said, I'm not having one. She goes, oh, my God. Where's your food? I'm like, that is my food. It's a.

[A]

And.

[B]

And I had to explain to her how. How the body works. And she's like, well, I don't. I don't want that. I want to have potatoes. And I'm like, they're not good for you.

[A]

Then you're going to get the result of what happens, right?

[B]

And I'm explaining this to her, and she's like, is that why I don't feel good when I eat them? Like, well, how do you feel? She says, I'm depressed. I'm going to turn to sugar. Yes.

[A]

So, yeah, I gotta. My wife is a. My wife likes to cruise, right? She likes to go on cruises. And because occasionally I'm not a huge gambler here in Vegas, and we don't gamble that much on these ships, but there's not a lot to do, right? So you gamble. But if you gamble like a little bit or enough, they start sending you free cruises because they wait to come back.

[B]

Back.

[A]

So my wife has. Does not have the ability to say no to the free cruise. She does not have that ability. So we went on a cruise last week. I gotta tell you, you sit on these cruises and it's such a. A microcosm, like, mixture of America on these cruise ships, right? But you just watch these people in the buffet in there with the unlimited food and the unlimited frozen drinks and the unlimited everything and just watch them just gorge themselves. And I'm like, dude, how. Hey, it freaks me out. I mean, I make that. If that makes me a bad person, I'm sorry. But it does. It's very. That imagery to me is kind of upsetting. I don't know why, but it's just like, bro, it's like. I guess it's because I'm very hypercognizant of how much time you have on this earth. And I'm like, why would you cut it short deliberately by doing this to yourself? It's not good for you.

[B]

And then.

[A]

And then these same people are like, smoking cigarettes on the deck. You're like, what are you doing? And I just. It's such an epidemic in this. In this country, and I don't know how we change that.

[B]

Well, it starts with stress level. That's the first thing. And when people go on a cruise, they go, I'm going to get my money's worth. So you have that issue, too. I'm going to get my money's worth. I'm going to eat as much as I can. I'm going to drink as much as I can. So it's like, well, are you really getting your money's worth? You're hurting yourself to do what? Equate to the 500 bucks you spent or the. That. Whatever it is. I don't know. I don't cruise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not a cruiser.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't. I can't sit still.

[A]

You're not missing. Yeah. My goal. When I get a cruise ship, I have one goal always. I want to get off weighing less than I get on.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

That's always my goal. I'm like, I'm going to get off this boat weighing less than I get on. That's my game for myself. Not trying to get my money's worth. I'm trying to, like, escape the evil buffet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's. That's my goal, you know? Do you think what's worse than America right now? What people are putting in their heads or what they're putting in their mouths?

[B]

I think it's all connected. I think your mindset is. Is changes what you do, and what you do changes your mindset. So if I sit here and say, okay, I'm going to be healthy, and I focus on that, I'll eat correctly. But if I sit here and go, you know what? I'm going to have a cheat day. And that turns into two cheat days. It's mindset. Mindset is everything. And a lot of people don't realize your mindset creates your reality. So what I think is what. What happens? So if I wake up, I'll give you an example. Outside of food, if you wake up and you're. You're. You're late, what happens? Oh, my God, I'm late. You panic, you're frustrated, you're angry. Everything starts to go wrong.

[A]

The ball starts to roll. Yeah.

[B]

You can't find your shoes. You can't find your keys. You go to walk out the door, your jacket gets caught on the doorknob. You get in the car, and there's always traffic when you're late. Why is that? You can go to work every day and sail. No traffic. But the minute you're late, there is traffic or an accident.

[A]

Every red light. Every red light, yes.

[B]

And then you get to work, and you walk in and what. The person says, good morning. And what do you do? Oh, my God, it's not a good morning. And you spew unto them how, what a horrible day you had. Now they've got all this negative energy. Now they've picked up your mindset. Now you have two people that are angry. By the end of the day or midday, everyone in that office has an issue. And now you're all going, you know what? We need something. Let's go get a Starbucks. Or let's Go get a donut. Or let's go get something to change the morale. Right? This is how it starts. And it's not just an escape. Food is an escape. Food is also a celebration. Think about it. When you have a birthday party, what's the focal point of the party?

[A]

What do you have? A birthday party. The focal point is a person whose birthday it is.

[B]

No, it isn't. What's the part. What is the focal point of the birthday party?

[A]

The cake.

[B]

The cake. What's the focal point of a wedding?

[A]

The cake.

[B]

What's the focal point of a divorce? If you're a girl, the cake.

[A]

Is there a cake? Do you have a cake party?

[B]

Cake in the shape of a man's.

[A]

Oh, do you really?

[B]

Oh, yeah, we're wicked.

[A]

I don't get invited to a lot of those. As a matter of fact, never been invited to one. So you can see my lack of knowledge in this subject.

[B]

You're not missing anything.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

But it's always cake, right? So it's a celebration, and it's also an escape. So food is always. Either we're celebrating or we're escaping. And we use food to do it. But it's never like, let's have broccoli. No, it's. Let's have sugar every time. Or caffeine.

[A]

Just a little treat.

[B]

A little treat. And then what happens? Right? Think about, I know you're not a girl, but ask your wife for validation. When the girls go out and have dinner, at the end of dinner, there'll be one girl who goes, who wants dessert? Like clockwork. And there'll be one girl who goes, it's Pam. I'm not having it.

[A]

It's gonna be Pam.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not having it. And then the other girls, we'll just split it. So they get one piece and they split. There's no splitting. Because as soon as they all go home, they are all stopping at Starbucks.

[A]

Because the ball is rolling.

[B]

Oh, they're gonna get Ben and Jerry's and they're gonna get cake. Because they didn't. They had the little piece. They had a little bit it, and now they want more. That's what happens.

[A]

They got a little hit.

[B]

Yeah. And then there's me going, I don't want it. And they. And then I'll get a cappuccino or I'll get.

[A]

Yeah, look, I find. I mean, I find myself in my house. Like, you get on social media and the dopamine starts going. And then you're like, ah, maybe I'll Just get a little pretzel bite. Or maybe let's get this. Or I'll just get a little. It's like, yeah, you start picking, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because the one thing feeds the other. The dopamine hits from the phone, then turns into the dopamine hits of auto scrap something from here. And, and yeah, that's, that's the problem.

[B]

Now try this. When you're on the phone, the dope meat hits and you go, oh, I'm going to get a little pretzel. Do 50 squats before you get the food.

[A]

Then you won't want it.

[B]

You won't want it happens every time I have clients, I have them do that with alcohol and drugs. Before you call the dealer, do 50 squats. And they look at me sideways and they're like, what? Like, I'll call the dealer. I'm not going to tell you not to. But do the 50 squats first. And they'll call me and they'll go, I don't know what just happened. I just did 50 squats and I don't want to get high. That's, that's the dopamine hit you're searching for in the drugs. You just got naturally. And they go, that was wicked. And then from there they learn. And now I'm like, okay, now you're gonna do this, now you're gonna do that. And I start giving them little breaks that start changing how they perceive what they need, and then you can get that break. So instead of waking up and calling the dealer, now it's a 30 minute wait, then it's an hour wait, then it's a two hour wait. Then it's, you know what, I want to go to the gym first and then I'll do it later. And then they work out and they're like, I don't want to, I don't want to do that. I feel amazing.

[A]

Do you find that? So when your people get sober, they, it's, they're off everything at that point. Like, no, there's no casual. I can have like the crack addict can't have one drink that doesn't, that does not work.

[B]

Depends on the client. Okay, There are clients that'll that are uppers, clients that can have a glass of wine and be like, I don't, I don't want anymore because that's not my jam. There are clients that can smoke a joint and be like, that's all I want. And a lot of people say, well, they're not sober. And I see California sober. If it's working for them, Leave it alone. So if they're not off the rails with drinking in a DUI and they're smoking weed at night instead, and they're still going to work, and now they're producing and they're productive, then that's a win. So I look at that as a win.

[A]

So does the guideline become, everything is okay in moderation as long as it's not messing with your life?

[B]

I like how you put it.

[A]

Or do we draw a line where it's like, yeah, these substances, no matter what happens, you should probably stay away from.

[B]

So the guideline is, you're better today than you were yesterday. That's my only guideline.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And we do it as a stepping stone. So you're better today than you were yesterday. Tomorrow, I want you to be a little better than you were today. And we keep going up, and sometimes you drop back down and we go back up the ladder until you get to the point where you can go, I don't want any of this. Yeah, that's the goal.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But there are people that say, you know, I'm always going to want to have a glass of wine with the steak. Steak, fine. If you have one glass of wine with that steak and you can walk away and not have anything for two weeks, then have at it.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it's like I'm getting to that point where it's like, to me, I was talking to my wife, like, one glass of anything is just dumb. It doesn't. All it does is screw your sleep. Like, I mean, look, if you're gonna go out and have a couple drinks with people and there's an event or something, that's fine. But, like, one to me, makes no sense. It makes no sense at all to me to have one.

[B]

See, so you're already on the ladder where you're saying, okay, well, I'm gonna have a couple drinks because I know I have off tomorrow and I can chill. Yeah. Or I'm not going to have any, because what's the point?

[A]

There's no point.

[B]

Right. So it takes clients a little while to get there. So a lot of them aren't there. They're like, well, I don't want to give up my drinking. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Give it up for one day. I give it up for two days. And what does that look like? So everybody's path is different.

[A]

Yeah. All right, well, cool. I want to talk about the new book, even though it has nothing to do with any of this stuff. Right. Because you said you wrote this new book which is coming out, it's called Airport Antics, Tales from the Terminal. When does the book come out?

[B]

It's out.

[A]

It's out now. So sorry, not new book. Out now available everywhere books are sold. I'm assuming Airport Antics. Tell some terminal. Tell me about this book and why did you write it? What's it about?

[B]

So for the past 10 years, I've been going through airports and I profile people. So you see the other person who's running down, who's late, who's in their pajamas.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

The person who has no shoes. The person who's talking loud on the phone, who just closed a business deal and wants everybody to know he closed a $30,000 deal. The drunk couple at the bar that is trying to hook up all of these people. I would write on Facebook every time I travel, who I saw. And somebody said, can you put these in a book? So I did.

[A]

This is the airport version of look at my striped tie. Did you ever read that book?

[B]

No.

[A]

Look at my striped shirt. It was guys you see in a bar.

[B]

Oh, cool.

[A]

Look at my striped shirt. And it was hilarious about 20 years ago. This is the same flavor as that. So if you like that book, which I love, you'll probably like this one as well, which is cool. So you just. So you just took all your little posts?

[B]

I did. So there's a hundred in there over the 10 years I've traveled. Some of them are really funny. I had to clean up a few of them because there was a few of them that were a little off color. So the book is pg 13.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So if you buy it for a teenager, you're fine. Yes, it's. But there's some funny ones. There's a lady in there that was an older lady. They couldn't figure out how to use her phone, and it wasn't even on. And she was thought she was FaceTiming somebody. She's full conversation with phone not even on. Just it. Just funny stuff.

[A]

Well, I love it. Well, dude, if they want to find you, how do they find you, Kelly? Where do they find you?

[B]

So Caliestas.com is the easiest. Sober on demand, the Addictions Academy.com or anything in social type. My name and I'll pop up all over.

[A]

Well, I love it. Well, dude, it was such a great talk. Thank you so much for coming on. And. And there it is. So, guys, if you're listening to this today, if you're somebody out there that is struggling with something you're not, there's a lot of options out there. There's always something to do. And I think the number one thing that I took away from this is it doesn't matter how you change your life for the better. If you're struggling with addiction to anything, it's just whatever works for you that gets it done. So if you're struggling out there, you're somebody that wants to just change your life for the better, just take action. Because I think that's. That's really the first step in anything. We'll see you next week.