← Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Tech Hustle to Tranquil Coaching: Jack Landry's Journey to Purpose and Balance
00:50:05
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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
John Gafford
Right now, the world is inundated with online coaches. It's just inundated, right? So how do you look at that and say, I'm just going to dive into this thing and I'm going to be different? And what was your did you feel was unique enough about what you were doing that you wouldn't get lost in the sea of that stuff? And now, escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, Escape the Drift. And it's time to start right now. Back again, back again with another episode of like it says in the opening man, the show that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today on the podcast, beaming live from the power of the interwebs man in from Bali, Indonesia. This is a dude that spent a lot of his early time as what, a super engineer if you will, at Google and then left that on a quest, if you will, to help high performing people. I'm Talking about like CEOs, tech founders, former athletes, big time players that just weren't quite feeling aligned with their life achieve everything they wanted to do. He is the founder of the MOVED network that's M O V E D moved. And today we're going to talk about which is very much in line with what we do on this show, how to get yourself aligned, how to get your mindset straight, how to get you back on the right track. We're looking forward to talking to him. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Jack Landry. Jack, welcome man.
- [02:08]
Jack Landry
John, thanks so much. Super excited to be here. And yeah, man, I wish I had stumbled upon, upon your podcast about five years ago because I, I really could have used it back when I felt like I couldn't break through, break free out of the system. So yeah, I just appreciate you first and foremost, creating the space for people to hear this type of message for them to hear, you know, that they don't have to just stay in the drift of life and super excited to get into it today.
- [02:33]
John Gafford
Well, cool. You're beaming into us from Bali, Indonesia. What's happening in Bali? Just vacation.
- [02:39]
Jack Landry
Sure. So I just got married actually just over a month ago, so I got married. I'm out here with my wife and yeah, my business is online. Her business is online. So we were living in Miami, Our lease came to an end and we figured we'd just take some time travel. So we'll probably be out here for at least six months. Honestly, our goal is we have a couple different goals with each of our business business. And we're really just going to stay out here till we get to those goals. Super great environment for just locking in, focusing. Not a lot of distraction. Usually when we're awake, everybody else on the east coast is asleep. So it works out well. We can grind. Also enjoy a nice lifestyle. So that's why we're out here.
- [03:18]
John Gafford
Yeah, the phone doesn't ring quite so much when that happens.
- [03:21]
Jack Landry
Yeah, definitely not. So it's been peaceful.
- [03:24]
John Gafford
Makes life a little bit easier. Well, let's talk about this man. So you were a pretty successful guy at Google. One of the engineers there, you were doing pretty well. What happened with you that made you decide you needed to make a change?
- [03:36]
Jack Landry
Yeah, when I first started my career, and first and foremost, I kind of frame a little bit of my story for who I feel like it's best tailored to, which is ultimately who I used to be. But I was in a place where I felt like a lot of men where they're unmotivated. They don't feel like they have the discipline, they don't feel like they have the direction and the clarity for where they're heading next. And this is who I'm typically best served to help through my coaching. But also that's exactly who I was. So at the time when I started my career, I was working with Fidelity Investments doing software engineering. And then when I was with Google, what I did was I was doing machine learning, data engineering once again. And even from the beginning at Fidelity, I knew I really didn't want to have to take orders from another man because I grew up in a leadership position. I was the oldest of six kids. And then I always played football my entire life, sports in general, but football into college. So I was already always around that team environment, always had opportunities to lead, and always just loved the ability of Taking something that I had, taking a vision, putting it on paper, and then actually building it out, architecting it. So I knew that was something I wanted to do. I just didn't know the path. I had the tech background, I had some background in finance that I had gotten not only from undergrad, but also from working with Fidelity. So some of the initial ideas that I was exploring where like the intersection between tech and maybe building a platform that could be used by my brother's, a venture capitalist or something in private equity space. But none of those obviously came to fruition. But it was, yeah, it was, it was really that desire to be independent and do something on my own. And I had that from an early age in my career. And then I read the book Thinking Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, a classic that everybody knows. And that was just when I was like, all right, if this is my desire, let me get super clear on it and start to figure out like how I can move in that direction every day. And by the time I'd gotten to Google, I actually figured out a way where I can go and do this exact same work self employed. So it was like the first step into doing my own thing. And then from there I was able to step into my now business, which is coaching men, helping them step into their full, God given potential. So it was that progression that I went through.
- [05:59]
John Gafford
Well, I know that it said in your bio sheet you did play D1 football and you had some pretty serious injuries before that. So I think first of all, walk us through that. But I think part of it's innate, right? I mean, part of this just got to be who you are.
- [06:14]
Jack Landry
Yeah, yeah. So I had three back fractures, lumbar spine, lower back in high school, had to wear a full torso back brace for over a year. And then the same thing happened freshman camp. I was like the little white guy. Walk on. Basically got an invite to camp like a week before they started. Went down there, was crapping my pants about having to take the, take the, the endurance cardio test. Crushed it out of the park. And then like 30 days later I had two more fractures and was in the back brace for over a year again. And my dad was pivotal in my life because he taught me if I set my mind to something, and it's so cliche, but if I set my mind to something and I showed up for it, that I could achie achieve it. And so I had the back fractures, they didn't heal in the time frame that we were expecting. And I was also on a Scholarship with the Air Force. So the Air Force was paying me over the span of three years $60,000 to not only be in their program, but then I would have a guaranteed job with them coming out of college, which at the time I thought was some nice perks. And they came to me and they were like, because of the back injury, you can't continue playing football. So it's either Air Force, the scholars, the guaranteed job, or you continue with football where you don't even know if you're going to play. You don't even know if you're going to heal. You're a walk on anyway. So like, what's the point? How much playing time are you going to get?
- [07:44]
John Gafford
Was this the Air Force Academy? Is that where you were?
- [07:46]
Jack Landry
No. So I was at a school called Elon University in North Carolina. And then they had, at one of their brother campuses, they had a ROTC program through that school. So I wasn't like enrolled in the academy or anything, just doing the ROTC program. But yeah, I had a conversation with the commander, he was giving me a hard time, basically saying I wasn't going to play anymore. And long story short, I ended up dropping that scholarship because my, from, from an, like an early age, I always wanted to play in the NFL. At that point, like I had realized this isn't, this isn't, I don't have the God given gifts for that. But I knew I could at least play at the D1 level. So I told myself I was at least going to go through the rehab, get on the field and see how I responded. And even there came a point where my head coach, after like a year and a half of still being in rehab was like, listen buddy, I probably would hang up the cleats if I was you. And I told him, honestly, until you tell me I have to leave, I'm going to continue and at least get back on the field. So that was what I did. And ultimately the lesson there, that was kind of the foundational experience of my personal development because it taught me that it doesn't matter what anybody else says if I set my mind to it and then I persevere and I'm willing to continue through the adversity that may be a span of one month, six months, three years, but if I figure out ways to slowly improve every single day, then that next level, that breakthrough that I'm looking for is going to come as long as I continue and I have a will to win and a refusal to quit.
- [09:19]
John Gafford
You know, when you first made the decision to start coaching stuff. I mean like let's, right now the world is inundated with online coaches. It's just inundated. Right. So how do you look at that and say, I'm just going to dive into this thing and I'm going to be different. And what was your did you feel was unique enough about what you were doing that you wouldn't get lost in the sea of that stuff?
- [09:39]
Jack Landry
Yeah, online coaching can be tough. And there's a lot of scammers too who they do one thing, they put a little certification on the resume and next thing you know they're or they make $10,000 a month. Next thing you know they're coaching other people to build a $10,000 a month business. So you got to be careful, first and foremost, build a relationship with the person. Results speak for themselves. So what type of results, testimonies does this person have? But also like what's their level of vulnerability and authenticity with their own story, their own past, what they're doing right now? That's huge. So for me, I got to a point where I was sitting, I was sitting and actually it was, I was actually at Amazon. That was my last stint before I went to be self employed. So while I was sitting at Amazon, I was looking at all these people around, around me and I was like, all these guys are basically, myself included, just like a number in the system and their bosses. Everybody around them is dictating how they show up and the things that they allocate their time and energy towards. And specifically at Amazon, it was a very cutthroat environment where it's like I'm competing against every other guy around me. There wasn't much of a team environment. And so I saw people come into work daily where the only thing they focused on was their career. And during that time, that's when I was getting in the best shape of my life. Becoming aware of my emotions, working on, becoming more self aware. I was dropping vices, drinking, smoking, chasing hookups. I was pursuing a relationship with God. And I saw how number one, I was able to do all of this while still performing at the peak in my career. But number two, I saw how that dramatically impacted first and foremost my character, who I was as a man. And then it also opened up additional opportunities not only in my career, but also just with my relationships and the people in my life. So I felt like I was in a strategic position where I've walked in this path that a lot of busy professionals have walked in. They haven't been able to figure it out and that's what originally brought me into the coaching. And it just started as just fitness and nutrition for high performers and it's now since transformed into this place where I'm helping men specifically and I'm helping those. I've had a long journey and went pretty deep in my faith over the past three, four, five years. So specifically helping men step into their God given potential in every single area. And it all boils down to the same it's physical, mental, spiritual, your relationships, your career. So that was kind of my experience that put me in a place where I was positioned to help these people.
- [12:23]
John Gafford
What's the number one thing that you see when people come to you and they're out of alignment? Like what. What do you see is the big.
- [12:30]
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- [12:58]
John Gafford
It done this cause of that I.
- [13:02]
Jack Landry
Think a lot of people, the number one thing that's keeping them out of alignment is they expect that just by showing up and putting in more time and effort into their career, that's the number one thing that's going to get them to the place that they want to be. Whether that's more money, a promotion, getting to a new job. And what they're doing is they're all, they're basically just cultivating burnout. So I have no problem with like showing up and working 60, 70 hour weeks if that's required. And I've had periods in my career where that is what I did. But ultimately what you're doing when you recharge your body, like that's the foundation, you can think of that as just the physical part of part of who we are. It's almost like that's the physical body is the car, the mind is the engine. And every time I'm taking care of my physical body, I'm fine tuning the car, making sure things are running smoothly. When I'm taking care of the body now that's also going to put my mind in a good place so I have better clarity, better focus, better energy, more creativity. More charisma with the people who I'm interacting with on a day to day basis. All of that's going to help me elevate in my career. It's not just like burning the candle on both sides. So that's why what I typically see, where people are struggling the most and actually getting to the point where they realize this doing these things that are not related to my career is actually going to help it.
- [14:26]
John Gafford
Well, I think for me, the people that I run into that have an issue, it's about alignment, it's. They don't manage, like you said, their time very well. They're not good at understanding. You know, I think the 60, 70 hour work week, the grind, grind, grind, I think that's dead. I think that in this day and age, with the things that we can do, if you're working that hard, then you're not working smart. I mean, if I had somebody, we have a lot of people that work for us here and if somebody told me they were pulling 60 hours a week for me at this point, I'd be like, what are you doing? Like, how are you? Like, this doesn't make sense. You're probably the wrong seat just by what you just told me with that.
- [15:03]
Jack Landry
Is what I was saying.
- [15:04]
John Gafford
But I think that I agree with you in the fact that people get so caught up, especially high performers, they get tunnel vision in one direction and, and they, they, they let go of other things. I mean, I've known people over the years that have gotten incredibly, they just get, one day, they wake up and go, I'm going to get incredibly focused about my fitness and their business goes to shit or, or their personal relationships go, go out the window because they go to work all day for eight hours and then they're in the gym for two hours and wife is like, I haven't seen you in a month. It's like, yeah, yeah, but I'm getting abs. You should be happy I'm getting abs. Be happy about it. And it's like, no, dude, I want to see you.
- [15:42]
Jack Landry
So.
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John Gafford
Understand that one of the exercises I stopped saying things are mine because I don't remember where I get things anymore because I get so much stuff. But there's an exercise where there's a piece of paper and then around that piece of paper it's like your personal life, your fit, your physical life, your spiritual life, your fitness life, and you go all the way around and then you go out on a chart, ten being perfect and one being very bad. And you rank all of those Things and then you draw, align, connecting them. That if you are in alignment, it should be sort of a circle.
- [16:18]
Jack Landry
Yeah.
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John Gafford
And I think when people do the exercise, they see that wheel just kind of rolls up on its side because a big part of that is going to be flat because you're neglecting stuff. So when you get a high performer, how do you help them find that balance?
- [16:32]
Jack Landry
Yeah, it's super awesome. You mentioned that. I. I actually call it the wheel of life. I do it with myself and my clients. But, yeah, I found that from John Hardy, wrote the Compound Effect. That's at least that's where I got. Yeah, that's right. Just. That was a typical book and me just building small habits. But I think first and foremost, like, you also need to identify the root cause of the problem. And for a lot of people, what they've done is they've created an idol, which is now their work and their career. So we all tend to have idols, which is just something that, like, takes the throne of our life. And if you asked anybody, like, why they're actually working, probably if they were in their right mind and took a second to think about it, it's to support their family, live a specific lifestyle. Right. The career is supposed to feed into this bigger life that they're hoping to enjoy. But then for a lot of these top performers, when you look at how they're spending their time and energy, it's like, where is this career feeding into the other areas of her life? Because you don't have any of them. So that's the first place where we sit. Sit down is like, do you have any idols in your life? And where is your time and energy being spent? Where would you like it to be spent? I do that exact exercise you just talked about. Where in your perfect state, I call it a vivid vision. As a man, what do you want your life to look like? And who do you want to be in each of these areas? Physical, mental, spiritual, career, relationships, all those areas. Define that. Put it on paper. What would your life look like? What would you look like as a man? Your character. And then let's actually see how each day is measuring up to that vision and where it's not. Let's reallocate time and energy. And this isn't a split of 10% across every single area. I think balance is stupid. The term I like to use is harmony, where maybe 70% of my time does need to be spent on my career right now, but the other 30% is 10% with relations, 10% with my physical 10% on lifestyle or building a side business. So, yeah, making sure first and foremost they actually know, like, where's the problem? Where's the misalignment? Where do I potentially have idols? And now that I know that, let me get clear on what I would like it to look like. That Vivid Vision. And now let's reallocate our time and energy and efforts in that direction.
- [18:56]
John Gafford
It's funny since we've been on here now for what, 17 minutes and now we're talking about Vivid Vision, which is Cameron's book. And. Yeah, a friend of the show. Great guy. And it's funny because, like, I don't even care that you're talking about that this is in the coaching world anymore and in the self help world. I don't know that there's anything new. I don't know that anything new comes up. You know, I had Ari Meiselle on here not too long ago and I was talking about something I do is I silence all of the. All of the, you know, the apps on my phone so I get no notifications so I don't get distracted. And Ari's like, where'd you get that? And I go, I don't know. I don't know if I came up with it or whatever. He goes, my book. Yeah, I just started laughing, right? Like. But that's okay, right? Because I think if you have a mission to help others, we're all like, all the information is out there. We all kind of get it. We put it together a different way. And our job as coaches and mentors of other people is to find people that resonate with our personal frequency so they can hear that message and absorb that message and execute on the message. Because the way that you coach somebody is not the way that somebody else would do it. Or even if the information is relatively the same, it's different because it's on a different frequency and everybody responds differently. I think that's people that are outside this business or are skeptical of what you kind of do. You know, it's like, oh, it's all the same. And everybody says the same thing. Yeah, they might say the same stuff, but it's how they say it and how they go about causing that transformation. And you've got to find, you know, you may love country music, you may love rap. I don't know. Message might be the same, but if you don't hear it, it doesn't matter. So what do you do that was on that tone. Next we're getting into a question with that. What do you do to see if you have the right frequency with the people that you're coaching? You just put it out to the masses and see who shows up or what do you do?
- [20:46]
Jack Landry
Yeah, typically. I also, like you said, a lot of the things we talk about, they've already been out there. But I heard once we're best positioned to the. To serve the person we once were. So typically, it's guys who walked a similar path as me, guys who were athletes, either in high school or college, guys who were kind of like the classic jock even when they moved into the working world. And guys who kind of worked hard, party hard. So, you know, I would. I would go out, drink heavy, smoke, chase hookups, and that was kind of my story. I'm pretty vulnerable about that. I think there's power and vulnerability because now if me sharing what I've been through gives another guy the ability to relate and especially as men, something we struggle with, at least when I grew up, and I think probably it's. It's not as bad as it used to be, but even when I grew up, it was still this case. Like, masculinity was like, you got to be the tough guy. Don't cry. Don't show your emotions. And so most men aren't very good at sharing where they're at right now. So for me to lead from that position, it's like, all right, this dude is actually in the same place that I used to be. Now I can relate to him. And so that's typically what I look like. Guys who either were in a similar position as I was or who want the same things as me, which I'm also very clear on. Like, this is where I'm heading, and this is what's important to me. So I have a wife. I want to have a family. God is the most important thing in my life. Life. Physical health, mental health matters. Time freedom, and financial freedom matters to me. I don't want to sit at a desk. I want to be able to travel the world. So I'm very clear about where I was and then where I'm heading. And then typically, just the messages that resonated with me, like, the problems that I'm dealing with and how I'm overcoming them, the solutions that I'm finding today, I'll talk about those. So, like, you know, dealing with perseverance or adversity and how rewiring my mindset right now in this moment, that's something that I'll talk about. And whoever that resonates with typically ends up being best for the program.
- [22:52]
John Gafford
Yeah. It's funny you talked about working with athletes. I'm friends with a guy that has a program in Orange county called Game Time and they connect current athletes, newly retired athletes, with hedge fund managers. And it's a really cool program of what they do and they got a lot of cool projects they're doing the country. And I was at one of their meetings in Orange County. I don't know, man, this is maybe nine months ago. And they had met a world peace talking and somebody else and they were talking about when these guys said the problem with pro athletes from a developmental standpoint is from the time that you are 16 years old, 15 years old, whenever you are the best kid on your team, however, whatever age that is, you are told you are special from that moment going forward. And if you are good enough to make it to the pros or have some level like that, you're not living real life like you're just not. And then when it abruptly stops at the end of that retirement, you're kind of at a place where mentally you're still like you stopped developing when you were that 15 year old kid. And this is now the fantasy land is over and the real world smacks you in the face, which is what he was saying. The league doesn't, the leagues, all of them don't do a good enough job of preparing these guys for the real world when it stops. So of some of the athletes that you've coached and some of the people that you work with, do you see that?
- [24:15]
Jack Landry
Yeah, it's really an identity shift because their identity is completely determined by how they perform. But it's also, it's shaped by this character that they were as a performing athlete and somebody who everybody knew who was applauded and praised for what they did. And then I even saw this with some of my buddies who I played college ball with. All of a sudden that's over and they don't even know who they are. And I think it's hard to get, it's easy to get lost in actually like the work that you're doing. And it's the same with anybody. But because there's such a pedestal and a light on athletes, athletes, it's so much easier to let your career become your identity.
- [25:00]
John Gafford
Oh my God.
- [25:00]
Jack Landry
Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that with athletes. And they never really sat down to figure out like, you know, when nobody's, when nobody's looking, when I don't have a name to myself, when I'm just in regular Day to day interactions with people like, who do I want to be and how do I want to show up? Like, what's actually important to me outside of the accolades and what I can put on my resume. So it's almost that process of rediscovering and also, like, rediscovering other skills they have. Like, some guys, you know, they are great communicators. Other guys, they have that leadership ability. You see a lot of athletes, they really don't want to be in a leadership position, but some of them do. And as we start to identify those skills, opportunities for other doors and other avenues for them to express, you know, these skill sets that they have, they end up opening up.
- [25:55]
John Gafford
Yeah, I think in my book that's coming out November 11th or whatever it is. November 11th coming out. You can buy it anywhere now, pre order, same name, Escaping the Drift. You buy Barnes and Noble, Amazon, wherever you want to buy it. It's coming out distributed by Smith Schuster. Thank you very much, Smith Schuster. I have a whole section of it that talks about. And it's not just athletes. It's not. At one point in my life, I ran what Esquire magazine called the coolest nightclub on the East Coast, United States, which was a place called Cobalt Lounge in Atlanta. And then, unfortunately, super bowl came, and Ray Lewis had some issues there. You may remember. You may not be old enough to remember that, but Ray Lewis had some issues. Yeah, that was. That was my spot. And, yeah, anybody that says any publicity is. I used to joke, anybody that says any press is good press. Never tried to run Cobalt Lounge because, yeah, it didn't. You had this. This nightclub went from the hottest place in the world to, I mean, just off the edge of a cliff. And I talk about. A couple months after it closed, I went to the opening of a new bar in midtown Atlanta. It's something I'd done a million times. And I walked up to the door, and the guy that was there, I did not know, which was very rare for me in Atlanta. I didn't know this guy working the door. And I said, yeah, man, hey, I'm here to see blah, blah, Ray, whatever it was. And he goes, yeah. And I said, just tell Ms. John from Cobalt. He goes, cobalt. He goes, that place went out of business, like, three months ago, back in the line. And something is like, somebody that would hear that or read that and say, like, well, that's really stupid. But in that moment, my whole identity got crushed, like, because I would. I wasn't John. I was John from Cobalt and the lesson in that was, you know, and I tell people all the time, you cannot base your identity on something that you cannot control. Like, base your identity on being a good father. Base your identity on being a great confidant. Base your on being the best husband, on being the best that you can be that nobody can take away from you. Because when you base it on a job or a profession, it can change on a dime, man. If you're an athlete, one wrong step, one bad tackle, life's over. You know, it just changes that quick. And same thing if you. If you are employed by somebody else. If you're employed by your own company, it can go out of business that day. So don't attach who you are to what you do. And it's funny, when I go to. When I go to networking events, this is how I'm always memorable instead of forgotten at these networking events. I walk around, people walk up to me, and I go, oh, tell me about you. And you get the elevator pitch right. Oh, I'm Jack Landry. I help men achieve whatever, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, not what you do. Tell me about you, man. Tell me about who you are. And then people are just always so stunned by that question. Half of them don't know the answer. Half of them couldn't even, like, who am I in this. In this setting? I don't know. It's like, they don't know. I'm like, I don't give a what you do until I care who you are as a person.
- [28:57]
Jack Landry
I don't care. Yeah, yeah. It sounds like Ed Mylett, too. And I think also with the career not only being something we attach ourselves to, it's the accomplishments as well. And that's something that I had to rewire out of myself because there was always a bar that I was consistently moving forward. And no matter how I showed up the previous day, I was always unsatisfied and unfulfilled because I felt like I was never enough and. But also my worthiness and the quality of my day was determined by what I accomplished and what I got done. And ultimately that left me with a bar that continued to always move forward. And there was, like, never peace in the work that I was doing. So that was something I had to remove myself and my identity from as well. Was sure, the career may not be important, but it's like, what am I accomplishing? And is that driving my inner worth?
- [29:53]
John Gafford
How did you teach yourself to fall in Love with the process, because that's what it. In most cases, that's the problem is you're only chasing the result instead of loving the journey.
- [30:02]
Jack Landry
Yeah.
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John Gafford
So how do you change that?
- [30:04]
Jack Landry
Well, when we get so focused on the destination, then once again, there's always that lack of unsatisfaction or lack of fulfillment. And when we finally do get there, there's always another one. Like if you look around and you see somebody who's doing the work that you're doing, or maybe it's you're building your physique in the gym, there's always going to be somebody who you could say is doing it better or who has had more success, no matter what level you get to. And so focusing on that destination, it's just fleeting. It's never going to sustain. And also what it's going to do, it's going to distract and it's going to pull away your energy from, like, the real work that needs to be done. And that was the biggest realization that caused me to shift because I was like, what I need to do to actually get to this place is here, right now, in this moment. It's in the process. And if I'm right here, present, focused, then I'm starting to become more in tune with every single rep that I'm doing. And I'm starting to see all of the feedback that's available to me. So whether I fail or succeed in the process, what that's doing is it's giving me more feedback. It's ultimately pushing me closer to the solution. And even if I have failure three, four weeks in a row, that's telling me more about what's not going to work, telling me more about what will work. And so, yeah, just becoming obsessed with the process and knowing that it's like hitting the lottery. If you hit the lottery, like you get to the destination, but none of the foundational framework that's going to help you sustain that level of monetary success has been built. That's why you see so many people who hit the lottery and they just go broke because they have no idea how to. How to manage money. So it's understanding that what you're building right now is not only building a foundation for you to get to where you want to be, but ultimately it's building the consistency and the discipline that's going to keep you at that level.
- [31:57]
John Gafford
Well, I think people also fail to see the joy in the process. And like, for example, my son is going to go to college next year and we're talking about rushing a fraternity. And I told him, I said, listen. I said. He was like, that doesn't suck to be a pledge. And I'm like, well, luckily for you, 20 years, many, many lawsuits later, it's probably a little easier than it was when, when I went through it. Not 20 years now, 30 years ago, whatever it was. But, you know, I told him, I said, listen, I said, when I was a pledge, my attorney, the brothers beat the absolute crap out of us. I mean, they just absolutely made our lives miserable for a whole semester. Right. But the problem was I never had more fun in that fraternity than I did from when I was a pledge. Like, even though they're killing you, right, they're relentlessly after you. You're never closer to any other group of people because your pledge brothers are going through, going through it with you, you're getting killed with them. And then once you become a brother, it's just kind of, you're there, the drama of it, and you don't realize the value in the experience. And normally that's that way until it's over. I mean, I guess it was like Ed Helms on the Office said, the problem with the good old time, the good old days, is you don't realize you're living until you're gone.
- [33:13]
Jack Landry
Yeah.
- [33:14]
John Gafford
Is what happens. And I think finding joy in the pain, looking for those moments in the process, that's the key. So. But obviously you're never going to get there if you're stuck in a bunch of. And one of the things that I know you really emphasized was helping people get past vices. What's your, what's your pro. What's the program for that?
- [33:35]
Jack Landry
It really depends on the person. Because when we think about vices, we think the problem is like the blacking out, the being high every single night of the week, the going to the club, chasing women, being on. On the Internet, scrolling pornhub. But that's just the expression of the problem. The problem is typically some emotional cause. And a lot of the time, some of the common ones you see is like, guys are super lonely. So that's why they'll, they'll go to the drinking or they'll look for these quick fix relationships. Guys are dealing with anxiety around their work or a lot of them are super insecure in who they are. They have no confidence. So the alcohol is a great vice, the weed is a great vice because it kind of dims your problems. You forget about them for a moment. So, yeah, it's first getting to the root of the Expression is the vice. But really, what's the emotional thing that's causing that? And it starts with, I have to actually acknowledge it within myself and see it. And that's where a lot of guys are, which is they haven't even gotten to the place of realizing, damn, I'm full of anxiety related to my career. And because of that, I come home and I smoke a joint every single night or I have no confidence with women. And because of that, that's why I have to have at least three drinks at the bar to have a conversation with anybody. They haven't even got to that point of identifying that weakness or that emotional constraint within themselves. And so now we have identified it, they have to actually move into a place of accepting it. And then there's some work we can do to. To overcome it.
- [35:07]
John Gafford
I mean, is it like immersion therapy? You're like, okay, if you're scared to do this, you gotta go do it.
- [35:11]
Jack Landry
Is that I. I've done that with some guys. You know, sometimes it's just like, basic systems. I'll just call it, like. Comes from my days of taking math class, which I wasn't very good at, but, like, simple, exponential. Back off. I have a guy right now, for example, like, he's just getting off of nicotine. So, like, we went from the vape to the zins, and now we're just on nicotine pills. And it's been like four pills, three pills, two pills. So sometimes something like that, a lot of the time it's accountability and brotherhood. So the guys who struggle with pornography, it's having somebody, if it's not me, to actually report that to. And a lot of guys are like, I'm just going to block it on my phone. But it ends up being something, you know, it ends up that, like, there's ways around that. And so, yeah, figuring out something that's proactive rather than typically just saying, I'm going to decide to do this. Your mind is already conditioned to desire that vice when you're weak. And so just solving it through willpower is not going to get you there because you haven't built that willpower. So even there's a. There's a Bible verse that, like, talks about fleeing lust. So when I work with a lot of guys who are struggling with that, I figure out ways like, all right, you feel temptation, literally, get out the house, go for a walk until that subsides, or you can't be in this certain situation, like at the bar at night, then you need to remove yourself from it. So, yeah, it's a process of removal, adding, like, accountability, a couple different things, but it really depends on the person and the vice.
- [36:46]
John Gafford
You know, Bill Burr comically talks about, you know, men just suffer in silence until you keel over and you die. Whatever. He does it jokingly, but it is kind of an epidemic. I mean, you talk about men sharing their feelings and this stuff, which is kind of, you know, that kind of goes against everything, you know, we were taught as men growing up, you know, we don't do that. So I find that to be what, you know in what you do. 8 Is it a problem? And B, how do you get guys over that hump of. Of like. No, I'm just going to suffer in silence. So, okay, here's where I'm talking about my feelings.
- [37:19]
Jack Landry
Yeah, yeah, I do. See, it's a huge problem because a lot of the time guys come to me and they haven't even accepted what they're saying suffering with within themselves. And I think the biggest thing that's holding us back from admitting it to ourself and then even more so to another person is just our ego and our pride. Like, as men, we want to look like we're put together, we got things in control. Like, we're good, we're making money, we're in shape, we're confident. And so our desire for this outward appearance keeps us from addressing these internal problems. And so it's never going to be something where you throw a dude in a community of guys, even if it was like an AA meeting and you tell them to like dump out all his problems, it's not going to work well. And I think this is where I admire, because I saw other men do it first. Like men who lead with vulnerability and they're super real about their past in the stuff they've dealt with. Because if we sit in a room, it's just two of us and I share something that I've been through and it's relatable for you. It just creates a lot more of a space of safety for that guy to do it himself. And now he's put it on the table, he's actually expressed it. He starts to move into a position of. I'm not suppressing these emotions anymore. I'm more moving into a detective state where I'm looking at myself from a third person point of view. This, this is why the mental, the self awareness, the meditation, the journaling is so important because you're observing yourself from a third person position. And I'm starting to identify these things. Because I know if I identify them, there's now a path forward for me to overcome them. And I'm a stronger man when I get to that place. So, yeah, really creating that space. That's why what I do is like, not some. I'll sell some course or give people some stupid PDF program. It's like we're working super intensely together, one on one, because we're building a relationship first and foremost. That's where trust is built. The trust is also built in the vulnerability. And now the platform is there for a guy to be honest with himself and honest with me, and then we can work forward from there.
- [39:32]
John Gafford
Do you find it's easier to start with the fitness stuff? I think I just feel like it would be. I feel like one state. I feel like if you start with fitness, then eventually, you know, just like you would if you're a trainer at the gym, like, hey, what's going on with you? And eventually you develop a comfort level through something that allows them to maintain that. That level of masculinity in their own brain.
- [39:50]
Jack Landry
Yeah, completely. And it's like that's the foundation. I always think of it as a period is pyramid. It's like physical, mental spirit and career relationships follow up there. But, like, if your body's not aligned, if you're smoking, drinking, feeling just crappy every single day, not eating good, not moving your body, then the amount of mental haze and fog that you're going to have is going to be ridiculous. Like, you're not even going to be able to see yourself clearly. So let's start to clear a little bit of that out by just showing up physically, getting your body feeling good, that's going to get your mind just in a better place and then we can start to do some of that deeper work.
- [40:30]
John Gafford
So I know that, you know, masculinity has been in the crosshairs, the pendulum swinging back a little bit now, but it's been the crosshairs for, you know, quite some time. You know, it feels like anytime a man acts like a man, he's called toxic. And where are you with that?
- [40:50]
Jack Landry
Yeah, it's a brutal culture we live in. It's a good question. I haven't. I haven't even thought through this. But it's unfortunate because, like, this traditional masculinity has become so demonized. It's almost like you can't represent traditional male values. Honestly, a lot of what I believe comes from a faith perspective, but men were created a certain way for a reason. And, like, from a physical perspective, we are the dominant being, once again, for a reason, because there is a need and a role for us to be providers, for us to be protectors. And I don't think there's anything wrong in standing strong in that and wanting to be a leader, wanting to be somebody who can be depended on because we think of these roles, especially in terms of relationships. But it's like, as a leader, that's not me saying I'm superior in. Whoever's below me is inferior. I always use. I grew up in Massachusetts, got blessed to be a Patriots fan like Tom Brady. Right? Tom Brady was not like, I'm the man and all these guys below me are, you know, inferior to me. He was just saying, I'm going to go first. I'm willing to take more responsibility and I'm willing to, like, bear the burden for this team or for this family as the man. And. And I'm doing this for the good of others. So I do think it's important for men to step into those traditional roles and in those traditional characteristics of a man. And unfortunately, our society, like, makes it a bad thing where if you even talk about these things, it's a problem. And, yeah, I'm not even articulating it that well, but it's, it's, it's. I think you just need to be careful about, like, where you know, you know who. Who's defining the truth in your life. Because all of a sudden we see, like, these cultural movements and there's power behind it. It's on social media, it's on the news, and, like, I'm forced to adapt to that. But ultimately, like, especially with the message that you're bringing here on your show, like, people who adapt and follow the system are never the ones who ultimately show up in their potential as the person they can be. So whether that's a leader in a provider and a protector and a strong, masculine man or not, you conforming to what other people are telling you and how you should show up and what your character should be, that's going to ultimately dim your light in the person that you're capable of being.
- [43:32]
John Gafford
Well, I think that's pretty much what escaping the drift is about here. I mean, people are like, what is the drift? It is a gradual and unconscious handing over of your life's direction to the whims of others. And I think what you just said sums it up so well, which is letting others define who you are. And I think so many people get caught up in that one thing of, of especially in the age of social media with clicks and likes and shares. And this deck, this, this establishes your self worth in the eyes of so many people. So let me ask you this. The new generation that's coming up, speaking of social media like that, you know, the new generation of men that are coming up, what's the biggest fear for them that you have?
- [44:21]
Jack Landry
Yeah, I feel like I'm just afraid that they're gonna be conformed into this way of expression and this idea of manhood that's they ultimately become like sheep. Like, men are a lot weaker than I've ever seen. And I think it started. I'm 29 years old. I think it started. I think that makes me like Gen X or something. I don't even know Gen X. Yeah.
- [44:51]
John Gafford
Gen X. Yeah.
- [44:53]
Jack Landry
So I even, I saw it start with my group of.
- [44:58]
John Gafford
No, you're. No, I'm Gen X. You're Gen Z.
- [45:00]
Jack Landry
You're Gen Z. I'm Gen Z. I'm not. I just know I'm not.
- [45:03]
John Gafford
Not millennial.
- [45:04]
Jack Landry
Yeah, I missed the cut off. So it's just like this, this, this babied, like soft, follow the crowd type of man that I unfortunately see is becoming so prominent. And it's also like this instant gratification expectation. I call it like microwave culture. Because everything we have, it's like you can uber eat, you can get it on social media, you can chat, GPT. Everything we have is instant. And so just hard work and discipline and like working for something over a long period of time. Like, people don't even want to do that anymore. I walk around here in Bali and I see these guys who are literally from 8am to like 9, 10pm they're busting their ass like, building. They're building some type of building, like with their bare hands. No machines, no construction. And I first and foremost, like, I feel so fortunate for the blessings and what I'm able to do. But also I just admire, like, these guys are just like, we're going to go to work, we're going to get it done, and this is what needs to be done to bring food to the table. So, yeah, that's my biggest concern is like, men are just gonna let the culture define who, who they are instead of like looking within themselves, like, if you want to be a badass man. And something I get a lot of, a lot of flack for is like, me and my wife, we believe in traditional roles. It's like I'm the main provider. Like, I told you, I'm the provider. I'm the protector. She wants to work in the house. She wants to be eventually, at some point, a mom who doesn't work and who, who makes food for the family. And that's a good thing in her eyes, in a lot of women's eyes as well. And I see that as the biggest blessing and a woman. Being a mom is, you know, the most incredible and demanding job in the world. So that's something that we want to do, that's something we see value in. But we live in this culture where it's like, oh, how could you do that? You're, you know, you're, you're, you're like an authoritarian. And, and so yeah, it's really, really that, like, like being swayed to the culture and then just men not having confidence. And typically the confidence part is simply put, like men don't tell themselves, they don't keep their word to themselves. So every time I tell myself I'm going to do something and I do it, that builds confidence. Every time I tell myself I'm going to do something and I don't do it, that does the reverse. And that fuels my insecurity, that fuels my in belief, myself, my lack of self belief. And every single time I break that word and I don't follow through on what I want to do, that lack of self belief builds and builds and builds. And the reverse is true with building the confidence. So that all comes back to like work ethic and everything we talked about. And that's why I think most men struggle with confidence and they don't do a damn thing because they don't believe they can because they haven't built a track record of following through on their word.
- [48:00]
John Gafford
And that's the summary of chapter one of my new book coming out. Radical Honesty is the first chapter in my book. Because without, without having that dude, you have nothing, right? And you know, I tell my son all the time like, and my son isn't just exceptional, he's, he's top notch. But I tell him all the time, I'm like, look, don't tell me you're.
- [48:22]
Jack Landry
Going to do something.
- [48:22]
John Gafford
Tell yourself you're going to do it. And I, at the end of the day, I don't really care if you work out today or you don't. It doesn't affect me. Right? But it will affect you because you're lying to yourself. And when you don't, when you stop believing what comes out of your own mouth, not just to yourself, but to others, it's impossible to have self confidence that way. Just impossible. So amen Preaching to the choir.
- [48:43]
Jack Landry
Yeah. And if you know you can't keep your word to yourself, there's no way you can ever keep it to somebody else. So the trust factor is gone.
- [48:51]
John Gafford
It's not going to be there. All right, well, Jack, if they want to find you, how do they find you?
- [48:56]
Jack Landry
Yeah, Best place to find me is on Instagram. So you can find me Jack P. Landry. And just as a thank you for everybody listening, what I want to do, and actually I'll do two things, is I want to make available for them what I call my morning Momentum Blueprint. So super quick, if you feel like you're starting the day, you don't feel like you have direction, clarity, no motivation, no discipline, let's figure out a way for you. Get your morning dialed. Your. Your body, your mind, your spirit. What we can do is we can build out that morning Momentum blueprint for me if you just DM me on Instagram. And another thing we can do, typically something I only reserve for my one on one clients, is we can do what I call a Move different strategy session. So essentially, we're going to look at where you are right now in your life, where you want to be in 612 months, identify all the obstacles that are holding you back, and figure out a direct step by step action plan you can actually take to overcome that. So, yeah, if you want to do that morning Momentum blueprint with me or do the strategy session completely free, message me on Instagram. It's Jack P. Landry. You can message me Drift. So I know where you're coming from. Coming from John. And yeah, it's Jack P. Langry on Instagram. I appreciate it.
- [50:07]
John Gafford
I love that, brother. Thanks for coming by, man. And when you're back in the States, come by and see us in Vegas. Yeah, awesome.
- [50:11]
Jack Landry
Let's do it.
- [50:12]
John Gafford
All right, cool, we'll keep. Guys, look, if you didn't get anything out of that today, you weren't listening. But the number one thing I'm going to say that I took away from this is don't let anybody define who you are in this life. You've got to live by your own set of rules. You've got to live by your own values. Because the only person that's got to be proud of you, really, at the end of the day when you look is yourself. When you look at yourself in the mirror. We'll see you next week. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to Escaping the Drift dot com. You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind. Throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.