← Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From the Streets to Stocks: Leon Howard's Journey from New Orleans to Wall Street
00:58:59
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- [00:00]
John Gafford
One book both trap kids and Wall street kid execs should read.
- [00:08]
Leon Howard
Um.
- [00:14]
John Gafford
And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the Drift, and it's time to start right now. Back again. Back again with another episode of. Like it says in the opening man, the podcast that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today, streaming live by the Interwebs. Man, I got a dude for you guys that's going to blow you away. This is a cat that I am grateful that I get to call my friend. He is somebody that the first time I met him, I was so impressed with him. It was unbelievable. And this is a guy whose story, right story, Started out straight, hustling in the streets of one of my favorite places, New Orleans, as you all know. And, man just, you know, had some trouble, had some problems, you know, didn't make the right choices in life, went to jail and taught himself how to change his life through the stock market. And when he got out, man, he could have just kept that to himself. He could have just said, no, I'm going to get rich. But. But this dude made it a mission in his life to change not just his life, but the life of as many people in his community as he can. And I am in awe watching this guy do what he does every day with his community, and I can't wait for him to pour into mine. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Leon Howard, better known as the Wall Street Trapper.
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Leon Howard
Trapper, what is up, man? What's good, brother?
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John Gafford
Man, how are you, man? Good to see you beaming in the new building in Atlanta. Glad to have you, man.
- [02:00]
Leon Howard
Privilege, honor, man. You know, adversity is a privilege, man. But I'm. I'm glad to have somebody like you to call you my friend, bro, because, you know, I. I'm a learner, man. I love learning. I love being a student. It's my. It's my favorite position is to be a student, man, and get around people that have knowledge and information, but most important, experience, man. So I can just, you know, withdraw as well as deposit in that bank account. Not the bank bank account, but the relationship, the value account, so I can put into it and withdraw from it, man. So it's an honor and I thank you for having me, man.
- [02:39]
John Gafford
Yeah, I think that one of the things I've mentioned about you specifically on this show is I talked about you the first time I met you at the boardroom Mastermind, and we were. I just said the only word I could use with how this dude handles himself in these rooms is with grace, because he shows up every day. Just, Just. I mean, as much as, you know, it is just as big as you're balling, and the things that you're doing are amazing, and we're going to get. We're going to get to them. You're still like, just feed me. Feed me, please. I'm so grateful for you guys to help me with anything. You can feed me as far as knowledge, and I love that about you, man, because I got to. I got.
- [03:19]
Leon Howard
I think that's the only way. I think we can get to a certain level, and we think that we know it all. But the minute you think you know it all, you become an automatic fool, right? You become a fool. And so for me, it's. Yeah, man, like, I just want to learn because I know that knowledge is the thing that equalizes it. It's what levels the playing field. You know what I'm saying? The knowledge is what levels the playing field. And so any room I go in, I want to give it maximum value. But I come to be a student every time.
- [03:48]
John Gafford
Yeah, well, obviously, man, you know, I don't want to go to the time you were born to. Now we don't have to go through every second of it. But, dude, you know, just so people get an idea of the flavor of. Obviously, you grew up in New Orleans, man. Yep. You know, like, so, dude, you know, and if you've ever been to New Orleans, you know, if you've ever spent your real time there off of Bourbon street and seen the real city, that is that city, you understand that It's a tough place to come up in certain areas of that town.
- [04:18]
Leon Howard
Yeah, it's a hard place for sure, man. Not. You know, you don't see success in New Orleans. For me, I grew up, saw my moms get shot when I was nine. Happened maybe about 50 yards away from me. And then, you know, I went to prison at 16. I was homeless from about 13 to that time, literally, because, you know, my fan, it was kind of. It'd be kind of hard for families to just take on another mouth, man. You know what I'm saying? So I don't regret. Hold my. Hold that against my family or nothing like that. So, 16, I went to prison for attempt murder, robbery, a Guy robbed me out of some drugs, and I figured out who he was. And, you know, I did what I felt like the streets taught me to do, you know what I'm saying? And so with the prison, man, and a guy saw me, and I don't even think it was about me. I just think that God works in a mysterious way. And I think he was just frustrated with the idea of seeing, like, so many young black men in prison, just throwing their life away, man, not. Not giving himself a chance, not even knowing, like, what all life has to offer, you know what I'm saying? And it's easy to say that because I'm like, yo, you ain't here with me. But he was just like, y' all playing the wrong game, bruh. And I was like, yo, how are we playing the wrong game? Are you in prison with me? Like, you. But I had what's what in New Orleans is called a red band. So they mean you on a type of capital offense, attempt murder, armed robbery, carjacking, kidnapping, something like that. And he had a red and white band, which mean he was in federal custody. And so this thing about prison is so crazy, is that, like, if you go to the feds, it's kind of like a hierarchy, you know what I'm saying? It's kind of like you better than the rest of us, you know what I'm saying? So instantly, believe it or not, it gave me a different level of respect for him, you know what I'm saying? Like, out the gate. And he was like, man, listen, you need to learn how to do three things with your money, man. You're going to get out of here. And he was like, you need to learn how to make your money work for you. You need to learn how to stop spending time for money. And you've got to learn how to give value to people. And he said, wealthy people use stocks because it's the easiest way to build wealth. Real estate, because you can beat taxes, and then you create a business because America gives you benefits. And I was like, what? I had never heard that ever in my life. And so the rest of my time in prison, I just focused on the stock market because it was the first thing he said.
- [06:52]
John Gafford
What was he. What was this guy in for?
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Leon Howard
Embezzlement. So he had got $2.8 million. He paid $800,000 restitution. He kept $2 million. Now in prison, you can say anything. So I really didn't believe him. And then when he showed it to me in the paperwork, and you get to see 2.8 million 800,000 restitution, 202 million to be. I was like, wait, that's $2 million? And so immediately, you know, the belief factor was that. So now we talking about before Instagram, Facebook and all that was created. So he showed. Now, mind you, I'm from the hood, so I probably ain't been outside of New Orleans maybe two hours outside New Orleans, as far as I hadn't been at this point in my life. And he showed me some pictures until this day. I have yet to go there, but I won't go. It was in Iceland. It was. He was in this lagoon. They had steam coming from the water, and it had mountains behind him, and he had a bottle of champagne. And in my mind, at 16, I couldn't comprehend the fact that how could the water be hot and you have mountains with snow behind? Like, that didn't register to me. He was like, this. This is Iceland. You gotta go in. He just was showing me pictures of his lifestyle. So for me, somebody from the hood where I ain't really been out of New Orleans too much. $2 million on paperwork, plus seeing the pictures. And then he only had 18 months. That was the kicker. 18 months. He was like, you got 10 years for a 10 murder. I got 18 months if I go home. And even if I did it again, they could only give me 60 months the next time. You would still be doing it. Ten years. And that, I tell you not. That was the thing that blew my brain. I was like, oh, I really am playing the wrong game. And so that was it, man. That was the game changer for me.
- [08:40]
John Gafford
Dude, it's so funny, man. As you tell that story, all I can think about is the movie Blow, where he gets this. Where George Young gets put in that cell, and the guy's like, dealing weed. No, no. What do you know about cocaine? The difference is you got lucky with that guy. Saying, no, no, no. Let me show you the real way to make money. And it's not drugs. It's over here.
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Leon Howard
It.
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John Gafford
And you were blessed enough to do that. Have you ever reconnected with that guy?
- [09:05]
Leon Howard
Never. And I always say, like. That's why I always say, like, God, just work in mysterious ways, man. Because I've never seen him again in my life. You know, I'm saying. And that was in. That was in 2000. Here he is in 20, 25. I've never seen him again in my life.
- [09:21]
John Gafford
Bro, you talk about the butterfly effect, man. The littlest thing. Like, how many people has that Guy now, I mean, look, obviously what he did with you, but then you take that and so giving that chance encounter in prison, I mean, if you. Okay, let's. Let's just pick a number, right? You got to pick a number. How many lives are changed because of the conversations you had with that guy.
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Leon Howard
In prison, Man, If I'm being honest, it's not even quantifiable, but I would easily say million.
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John Gafford
Yeah, it has to be. It would have to be a million people who's affected by that.
- [09:58]
Leon Howard
Yeah. Because, you know, for me, I'll be honest with you, man, the sole purpose for me doing this, it wasn't even much for me to teach to the level that I am right now. This happened by me being. Just showing up every day. It was really, if I'm being honest with you, it was for me to just go back to the hood. And I was just telling my homies in the hood, like, say, bro, like, bruh, like, we wearing Nike. We using Apple phones, we wearing all the designer stuff, bro. Like, all that's on the stock market. We wear Timberlands. We wear Dicky suits every day. That's a company by the name of VFC Corporation, bro, it's on the stock market, bro. Like, we can own the stocks, and, bro, we can trade the stocks. And in my mind, I was like, bro, that's what they doing. I'm like, they don't sell dope. I'm like, and it's real. I said, if they do sell dope, it's through Johnson and Johnson. It's through Pfizer, it's through Merck, it's through Eli Lily. I'm like, bro, they not going to jail for it. We the only one. I'm like, bro, we really dummies. We were not really gangsters. They the real gangsters, bro. And so that was my whole message to all my homies in the street. And, you know, I had to flip the message a little bit, because I told him, all right, guess what? Let's say we. Let's say you don't want to do this. Let's say, you know, we know what comes with being in the street, bruh. We go, all of us have been in jail. We living, so we ain't dead, but all of us know at least 10 people and that that's 10 to 20 people that's dead. And at that phase of my life, bro, even now, I've been to more funerals than weddings, you know, I'm saying? So I'm like, bro, like, y' all Know what we going for. But I made them think. I'm like, when we do go, where do we leave our family? So I was like, at least we could do is open these accounts up and at least our kids can have it. And then I told one of my partners, I told this kind of changed his life one day. I said, let's say you start investing right now. We don't need the money, right? Not saying we were some kingpins or nothing like that. We was mediocre hustles in the street, and I make a couple thousand dollars a week. I said, but let's say you. You. We don't need the money right now. But if we go to jail and we come home, we can get that money, and we ain't gotta ask nobody for nothing. We don't gotta ask nobody to give us nothing. We don't come out on our ass. We come out with a few thousand dollars and we good. And. And that was the thing that kind of like, sparked it for a lot of my homies. It was like, let me put some money up for a bad day, at least. At least let me put some money up for a bad day. And that's how I kind of got them into investing.
- [12:24]
John Gafford
So here's the question, though. When you're doing that, obviously, man, you come back. Yeah, you've got this whole new philosophy on what we all should be doing. And at least. At least some percentage of your friends were like, bro, you've lost. This dude's lost his mind.
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Leon Howard
Yeah, he's always tripping.
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John Gafford
He has absolutely lost his mind.
- [12:41]
Leon Howard
Yeah.
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John Gafford
How hard was it for you? Like, there has to be this. This at that point, right, where you're like, I got to cut some of these people out. Like, I gotta. I gotta start eliminating people from my life if I'm gonna get to where it is. How hard of a transition was that for you? And how did you handle that?
- [12:59]
Leon Howard
Man, it's still something I go through, bro. I'm not even gonna lie to you. Because these were people that are not just grew up with, but, like, I've been in life or death situations with, you know what I'm saying? So it's hard to tell somebody who, you know, if I'm being honest, like, y' all done got shot at and shot at, people together with. I've trusted you with my life. Like, it's hard for me to just say no. So kind of what I did was I took myself. So what I did was I started doing iron work. And so. And I'll Say this like, it wasn't even easy for me to just go all in on this. Like, I still was fighting my own battles. Because the hardest thing for a person that comes from the street to do is lead the street. And it's not even much about the money. It's about, I don't know, another lifestyle.
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John Gafford
Yeah. It's the only thing you know, man. You're right. Every day.
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Leon Howard
Yeah. That's all I know, man.
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John Gafford
It's what you see. Yeah.
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Leon Howard
Yeah. So you can't just tell me, go get a job. It ain't that easy. It sounds easy, but it's not that easy. You know what I'm saying? So I was back in the street, bro. So I wound up. The thing that happened to me, again, I say, God works in some crazy, in some phenomenal ways, because I wound up catching another charge where the police kicked my door in. So they found 10 pounds of weed, $10,000, a 223, a 40 with extended clip and a beam and a bulletproof vest. And so I wound up beating the charge because they kicked in my door with no search warrant. And so that's called fruit of a poisonous tree, which means if you kick in the door with no search warrant, everything that you find is null and void.
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John Gafford
Yeah.
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Leon Howard
And the thing about the court system was, even though they saw that, I still had to go to trial with it because the court says, he got to prove it, he got to prove it. And so that lawyer, my lawyer, John Fuller, he cost me a. He cost me a pretty penny. And it was at that moment where I had, like, this epiphany. Like, dang, like, I'm doing this all over again, and I know better. The crazy part was when the police kicked my doing, I was. The stock market was on the tv, and. And the man, the stock market's on the tv, and he saw, like, my welding equipment and stuff right there. And he told me something that really hurt my feelings, man. He said, you got to be really stupid to know how to weld. And you watching the stock market, but you selling drugs. You got to be real stupid. And that, bro, Listen, that pierced my heart in a way. It made me. That's probably one of the lowest feelings I ever felt for somebody to call me stupid. And. And he like, you got the stock market on, and all of your welding equipment is right here. So you making. I was making about 2, $3,000 a week just welding. He's like, you got to be stupid, bro. You must want to go to jail. And I was just I felt so low. I felt so low, bruh. So I wound up beating the charge. And then I took a job about an hour away from New Orleans. It's called Baton Rouge, and a power plant. And that's how I kind of got out of my environment. And then from there, I was traveling. So I got another job out here in Atlanta to build the Falcon Stadium. That's how I got away from my environment. It wasn't because I just told my partners, I can't rock with y' all. I literally moved from by them, was doing other work, and that helped me focus on what I'm doing now.
- [16:17]
John Gafford
Do you find that now that, you know, you've become incredibly established now, obviously, man, you're a whole nother level to the game. Do you find now it's easier to try to reach back to those folks that maybe you left at that point and say, hey, you know, let's. Let's figure this out, man?
- [16:33]
Leon Howard
Oh, yeah. So I always tell people this. It's hard to tell people to do something that, you know will work if it hasn't worked for you yet, right? So I can be telling them to invest their money, invest their money, but they don't see how investing my money has freed me. So how you going to tell me do something, and you freeing me. It's kind of like the guy in jail. How you going to tell me I'm playing the wrong game? You sitting in the cell with me. Evidently, you're not playing the right game either. But it was the nuances of why he was there. So for me, when my partners know what to say, oh, like, free. Really making money doing that. Oh, he really. Oh, he really doing that. Like that. Oh, that's really changing the game, Farm. So now they became more open to. They're like, hey, man, show me how you do that, bro. Hey, where to put this 10,000 eyes at, bruh. Hey, man, come Holland when you come home. And so it became easier. And then I knew the respect had grew for me more because, you know, again, New Orleans is New Orleans, man. Beautiful place. I love it, but it's a violent place, man. So I would come home and some of my. I would try to go in the hood, and some of my potters would be like, hey, look, man, we getting into it right now. Don't come right here. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's when I knew, like, the level of respect that they had for me was on another level. It was like, hey, hey, we getting into it right now. We Beefing with such and such and such. It's hot around here. I know you in town don't come through. We'll come holla at you or come holla at us next time. So that became a sense of, oh, I see the respect, you know what I'm saying? Because you never once. You see somebody make it out you don't want, they become the thing you look forward to, you know what I'm saying? Like, oh, we can do that. He ain't playing football. Nothing against that. He ain't rapping. Like, here's what he's doing. Oh, we can do that. We just got to get out of this. And so it became easier for me to talk to him that way.
- [18:26]
John Gafford
Well, I think. I think the mistake a lot of people make, man, when they're in a bad situation and trying to change their situation is it's, let's all try to do this together. Let's all go together. And like, when you're on an airplane, man, what do they say? If the oxygen mass drops, you put it over your face first. And then you help everybody else, right? Like, you got to help yourself first. And then you can, you know, then you can do that. And I think that, yeah, obviously, man, I can't imagine what it was like growing up in that. In that kind of situation. I'm blessed that that wasn't me. I'm incredibly blessed that. But I think the fact that you took that as a responsibility and that carried your mission forward is what's. Honestly, I think a lot of people talk about going back and helping and trying to do right for where they came from. I think a lot of people talk that, but I don't think people do it at the level that you do. So my question is, obviously, man, look, I'm not going to say, is it a calling to you? Is it a mission? Because it obviously is of all of your priorities.
- [19:28]
Leon Howard
How.
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John Gafford
How brightly does that candle burn in you, man?
- [19:31]
Leon Howard
Oh, man, it's. It's outside of my. I'll be honest with you, man, outside of my daughter, that's the next thing for me, because one of my daughters, the first thing, because I never want her to experience that life. I want to rob her of that. But next is because I know when I was there, whether it was homeless, whether it was coming from prison, whatever it was, man, like, I didn't see tomorrow. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't, you know, every day was, yep, Either I could die today, I could go to prison today, but no, Matter what I'm. I'm ready for both of them, you know what I'm saying? And so, because I didn't have hope. And when you look up to rappers and football players like me, I'm like, bro, like, I'm not about to play no football. Ain't much rap that good.
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John Gafford
Trapper's not a large fellow for those.
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Leon Howard
Yeah, I'm 510 at best, you know what I'm saying? So. And I ain't f. I might run a 49, so I knew that wasn't my calling and rapping wasn't my thing. So to get here now, I know that. I know how many more me's there that's left. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I know how many more me's that's still there. And the one thing about no matter what hood you go to, poverty is the language that speaks the loudest, you know what I'm saying? Lack of resources is the place that speaks the loudest. And one of the things we can tend to do in that situation is because we don't have a great outlook on life because we so prisoned by our current reality, we don't even have the tools, right? And so for me, it's being able to go there and say, yo, here's the tools, family. So last year, 2023, my company and myself, we went to eight cities. We went to New Orleans, Houston, Atlanta, Louisiana, Dallas, New York, Philly, Baltimore, and we went deep in the hood. Three hour class. We taught it for free. We brung out 300 people every show, every time we did it. No violence happened, no nothing. And the goal was simply to go in the hood and say, hey, bruh, here's some tools, fam. This don't have to be your reality. Let's make another choice. And this one don't care about your mama not being there, your daddy not being. The market don't care about your credit score. The market don't care about none of the things that, you know, so called corporate America cares about. The market doesn't care. And if I can give you these tools, bro, this could change your life. And so that's the core. That's that burn. That flame will never go out. Because at the end of the day, I am still that.
- [22:15]
John Gafford
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously, dude, it's obviously the rocket fuel that makes you move. Yeah, I just, I mean, I don't ever see you do anything half speed. I've never seen anything come out of your mouth half speed. And like, it's funny because you were talking and I love how you take. What's the current. I mean, even the current administration, man, things that are happening and you talk to people that are in situations they should. I saw a video you posted on your social. Maybe. I don't know how long this was, maybe three, three months ago, man, but you were talking about. Or maybe we were talking about, I don't know, we were talking about how the drug laws were getting ready to change. And if you are somebody that's out there, like, you got to get serious about replacing that job as quickly as you can or you're gonna find yourself in a bad way.
- [22:59]
Leon Howard
Bad situation. Yeah, it's because, man, like, I didn't have the privilege to worry about voting Republican or Democrat. Yeah, I had the priv. I. I didn't have that luxury. Every day was a life of that situation. And so not to say that's not my fight, because as an American, you know that is going to be your fight. But some people don't have the luxury to focus on who is the senator, who is the president. They focused on how do I eat, how do I get the rent paid, how do I get the bills paid. Like, yo, this person shooting at me, that person just killed my brother. That person just killed. So they there. And so even though it's not right or wrong, it's still a reality. But, you know, we don't have the luxury to that. So my. My thing is, hey, bro, here's the laws that are coming. Here's the laws that are putting in place. Hey, you gotta change.
- [23:55]
John Gafford
You.
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Leon Howard
You can't be stuck in your ways. And also, here's a better option. Look at me. You. I speak the language. You know me. Let's change. You know what I'm saying? Because representation matters. So the knowledge. And I'm not even. I don't never act like I'm the best person to ever do this. It's not it. But what happens is when somebody comes with a suit and a tie in the hood, we automatically discredited. Man, you ain't been through what I've been through, man. Get out of here, man. You don't know what it's like. We don't even give a person a chance. So for me it's, hey, I got. Hey, I still wear my hoodies, bro. What's up? Let's change. So it's just being able to not only be the imagery, but also have the vocabulary that they can relate to to say, and bro, listen, 16, bruh, I was in prison. I know what it's like to be almost kidnapped. I know what it's like to get shot, bro, you ain't telling me it ain't a story in the street that you can tell me that I can't relate to. So we not going to use that as no excuse no more. We going to get to it. And so, yeah, man, that's when I post. I try my best not to post from a biased perspective because I know a lot of times people coming from certain areas don't have the luxury.
- [25:10]
John Gafford
Well, dude, I do want to talk about that because you're such a monster on YouTube, right? You're just absolute savage there. So my question is this. I don't think anybody with half a brainer that's been well traveled across this country is going to argue that generational poverty is a thing being born with situations and where, like you said, all you see is the streets and it's where you are. How do you think YouTube and the information that you can get on YouTube is. Is diminishing that reason for people staying where they are? Like, what effect do you think that has and where do you think it goes in the future, man? Do you think people. It's good, man.
- [25:50]
Leon Howard
I think YouTube. YouTube is like drinking from a wall, from a fire hydrant, right? Because the. The one of the worst things. So not having the information is one thing, and then having too much information is another thing. And then with YouTube, what happens is you get a. There's a lot of information there, but also there's people that sell lifestyle more than anything. And I think that's what hurts people who come from that generational poverty because you then search for the lifestyle instead of the freedom, right? And So I think YouTube, YouTube, like anything has the good and the bad, but I think that streaming helps things get better. That's one of the things we doing. That's why we taking media so serious over here, because we want to control that narrative. Narrative. I think streaming, I think YouTube is just a. It's a beast, remember you. So people don't notice. But YouTube actually has more watch time than Netflix, right? So YouTube has more watch time than any other streaming service, which means people can go straight to the person that they like and look at them and listen to them and then take on their reality of life. So I think that YouTube is such a phenomenal vehicle, but if you're not looking for the right thing, you can definitely get lost and then you'll find yourself chasing the wrong thing, which could then actually Hurt you more than.
- [27:22]
John Gafford
Dude, I think, you know something I just realized and I never thought about it like this way, but. But you just said something that, you know, people chase lifestyle, and especially people that come from, from serious poverty are looking for lifestyle. And I think for people that don't come from that, youth causes you to chase lifestyle. And I think when you get a little older, you understand that true wealth buys time because you start to understand how finite your time on this planet is. But I think, you know, as we talked about, must be hard to sell that to people because the situation that you were in, man, I mean, it's 15, 16 years old. You probably didn't think you had much time anyways. What difference did it make?
- [28:08]
Leon Howard
Nah, I didn't. Man, I mess. I didn't even think I was gonna get to see 21, man. If I'll be honest with you, it's, it's. It's actually easy to sell lifestyle to people because entertainment world makes that look like freedom, right? You gotta remember we looking up to. From that world. We not. So when you coming from the street, you're not looking up to, up to the Wall street investor. You're not looking up to the real estate investor. You're looking up to the rapper, who is not actually as wealthy as he looks. He is or he or she is. But they selling us lifestyle. You're looking up to the pro football player or the basketball player. And what we see when they ball, we see them wear all the jewelry. You're looking up to those type of people. So we get this idea, we looking up to the movies that we watch. And so we think that lifestyle equates to freedom. And so you start smart if you're smart, it can.
- [29:04]
John Gafford
If you're smart. If you're smart.
- [29:08]
Leon Howard
Yeah.
- [29:09]
John Gafford
Did you see, what did you see? Did you see Iverson the other day? Did you see that story?
- [29:13]
Leon Howard
Oh, yeah. And see what AI did? So what happens to. Is he has somebody so brilliant with him, he's still getting $800,000 a year from Reebok.
- [29:22]
John Gafford
Dude, he just got. He, he, he put some of his money in, in a. An untouchable trust that he could not touch until certain milestones. He just turned 50, I think the number was. And he just got 50 and mil for that. It's just been sitting there growing for time, growing.
- [29:38]
Leon Howard
Not only did he have that, and again, that's come from having people in your corner that talks to you about, hey, don't lose this, right? Not only did he get that, but he also signed a deal with Reebok when he first signed a deal and said, hey, listen, at a certain age, don't pay me nothing. And then at. At this age, after I retire. Unlock that. So then I think maybe like five years ago, you started getting another $800,000 a year from them. You know what I'm saying? And so that's what happens. And a lot of times we don't have people that have that connection to money or understand how to. So every day is survival mode. And it's hard to get out of survival mode. So you start saying to yourself, you know what? I'm gonna spend it all while I got it, because I don't got that loan here. And so for me, the one thing I never, ever did was talk lifestyle. I always talked about freedom. I always talked about being able to be with my daughter until, you know, growing old, being a grandfather, having experiences. You know, I'll take a trip before I buy a car. You know, I'm saying, I won't buy some real estate. I won't play Monopoly in real life. Like, those are the things that matter to me. And so now what I do love about the generation now is they are picking up on what real wealth is. They are picking up on it. Like they starting to. They are starting to get it because, you know, you don't want to be. I have a saying that you want to be the last one that get it out the mud. Everybody else can get it out the market, and that market can be the stock market. It can be real estate. I think business is the most exciting sport that you can ever play, you know? So, yeah, man, I think YouTube has ups and downs, but again, we have to be the. The curators of the content that changes the dynamic. And that's why we started the Wall street looks like us on it.
- [31:33]
John Gafford
Well, let me ask you this, man. So obviously, when you're welding and you're making three grand a week and you're watching the stock market, but you get caught with ten grand in cash in your thing, that wasn't about surviving and that was about quick money, right? It was a mentality of getting money as fast as I can. Now, obviously, that philosophy does not jive at all with what you do now. So how did you unlearn that? I need it fast to. I'm willing to let it grow. How did you unlearn that? Man?
- [32:05]
Leon Howard
It was reading this book, man. I tell people the first book I read in prison was Robert Kiwasaki, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And it's not an investing book, but it was a mindset shift for me in a way that I had never seen. Nobody talk about money. We talking 2001. You know what I'm saying? I had never heard nobody talk about money that way. And so after that, I started just reading books on Warren Buffett. And one of the things Buffett always talked about was the patience. And I remember him saying, like, if you had to only make 10 investments for the rest of your life, you would choose them wise. And then another statement was, somebody is sitting in the shade right now from a tree that was planted 20 years ago. And I was like, man, that's how money grow. And so just reading, the more and more I read about wealthy people and wealthy families, I realized that nobody cared about the right now. Everybody cared about, what does this look like 10 years from now, 15 years from now? What does it look like when I'm gone? You know what I'm saying? And so that was the. That was kind of. That was the. That was the transition for me. It wasn't one thing. It was just like reading so much at one time and realizing. All I kept saying to myself was, you playing the wrong game. That's all. That. That word that he told me stuck in my head. It was like, you playing the wrong game. Even when I got the trading, it was like, my trades. I don't even day trade. Like, I put my trades out for two months, three months, four months, five months even. That philosophy is what made me trade the way I did. It was like, nah, let me let it grow. And then you start. There's nothing like the excitement of seeing money grow for me faster than I could work for you know what I'm saying? He was like, yo, what? And so that was it. And again, coming from where I came from, all you need is proof that something works to keep that fire going in you.
- [34:11]
John Gafford
Because, man, you've been in the game for a while, and I know that your investment philosophy has probably changed as you've gotten older. So walk me through if you had to hit the high points of what? Like, I totally believed in this for a hot second, and then I let it go, and this is why. And then I believe in this. And then, yeah, and let's get all the way up to where you are now. Yep.
- [34:32]
Leon Howard
So at first, it was like investing and just what you use, right? So that was the first. Like, invest in what you use. So I would just be buying all kind of at and T's and buying all that stuff. And then I started Adapting the Warren Buffett philosophy of, like, buying at a discount. I was like, oh, that's different. And so I remember buying Waste Management garbage company, and Buffett always said that boring is better. You know what I'm saying? I remember buying Waste Management at a cheap price, and I was like, dang. All right. And I remember looking at it, like, five months later, and it had, like, tripled, and I was like, whoa, okay. And so then I switched to stop trying to buy everything to buying boring companies. And then it went to, Warren Buffett said, don't buy technology. So I kind of stayed away from technology for a while, and then I saw the pace at which Amazon, Apple, Tesla, I was like, wait, Buffett might don't got this one right.
- [35:38]
John Gafford
Yeah, you know, maybe he and Charlie didn't get that. Maybe they call this one exactly right.
- [35:43]
Leon Howard
Yeah, maybe he gets it right. And so I remember pivoting to, like, technology, and then I was like, yo, this is it. And so then I started wrapping my brain around economics, saying, wait, how does this remind me of the hood? Like, what is a tariff? You know, like, oh, a tariff is somebody trying to hustle in this neighborhood. But in order to hustle in this neighborhood, you got to pay me draft. If you don't pay me draft, you can't hustle in this neighborhood. I said, oh, that makes sense, right? And so I went to asking myself, like, who can hustle in this neighborhood and still make money? You know what I'm saying? Even if they had war? And so, like, I went to correlate everything to the streets. And so that took me to another level because it. It made sense. And so then I got into trading, and then that took me to a level that I'm now still like, because this is never ending right here. You know what I'm saying? And so then it went to trying to day trade. And I was like. And then I went, yeah.
- [36:45]
John Gafford
I'm like, if you're day trading, I'm sorry. Yeah.
- [36:48]
Leon Howard
I'm like, nah, this ain't for me right here. So then I went to more swing trading, like, eight months. I mean, four months. Six months. Eight months. I'm like, wait a minute. If I buy great companies and then trade them for six, eight months out, I'm putting a game in my favor. They'll go through some ups and downs, but in the long run, because the market goes up 76% of the time, this increases and calls.
- [37:13]
John Gafford
Right now, that's what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:16]
Leon Howard
So I went to Trading. So then I went to mixing trading to investing. And then I heard a bunch of people say that you're not supposed to beat the market. And I was like, that's some. You know what I'm saying? And so then I went to compete with myself on how can I beat the market. So we beat the market six years in a row. And so you just. I just kept compounding information, right? I just kept on, like, I. Like, I'm with y' all. I just kept telling myself, they're not smarter than me. They just got more information than me. So if I can dig into the information, I can quadruple my returns, you know what I'm saying? And so that. That was my walkthrough. It went from, you know, buying ETFs and index funds and then getting to individual stocks, then get into tech stocks, and then just graduate into trading. And so now, you know, like, last year, I had my first trade where I made a million dollars in one trade. That blew my mind, you know what I'm saying? And so that was kind of the philosophy of how I just kept evolving. I just felt like the market wasn't smarter than me. If I just. And I always say this to myself, if I can survive bullets and if I could survive the streets, man, I could survive losing a little money.
- [38:35]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [38:36]
Leon Howard
You know?
- [38:36]
John Gafford
Yeah. What's worse that could happen to me, right? Like, there's a little bit of money.
- [38:42]
Leon Howard
That gave me a risk leverage. Yeah. That gave me a risk tolerance.
- [38:45]
John Gafford
Yeah. I was gonna say that, man, is like, your risk aversion must be just zero. Just. Yeah, it's like. I mean, as long as I'm gonna wake up and be able to hug my daughter, I'm better off than I was 20 years ago. And let's go. That.
- [39:03]
Leon Howard
That is it. It's like, yo, as long as I'm not putting my life on the line if the worst thing that can happen to me is losing some money. Oh, man.
- [39:13]
John Gafford
Have you found yourself maybe getting a little more conservative? Maybe buying some treasuries, maybe doing those things to kind of put the park. Park a little bit on the sidelines? Are you still full tilt with.
- [39:23]
Leon Howard
I ain't there yet, man.
- [39:25]
John Gafford
I ain't there yet.
- [39:26]
Leon Howard
The most. The most conservative I'm going to be is buying.
- [39:29]
John Gafford
Yeah, well, we talked about that. The first time I met. The first time I met Trapp, for those of you guys listening, we're sitting there and I was like, so, you know, hey, man, you know, you're killing the game in the stock market. You do what you do. What are you doing here? And he told me his tax bill and I was like, oh, that's what you're doing here? Because I'm like, I'm like, you're sitting in a room full of a bunch of people that probably made as much or close and nobody in here paid taxes.
- [39:58]
Leon Howard
That blew my mind, bro. That yo, I. I felt like, like what the hell am I doing wrong here? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that. That blew my mind, bro. Like, I just. But again, it's the patience and learning the game. And that's why I'm so grateful for people like you, man, because. And that borough masterminds, because no one that I've met so far has been stingy with the knowledge. No, you know, how can we help you, bro? Like, I got the lawyer right now. How can we help you, bro? What can we do to help you trap, you know? And it's me saying, bro, like, first of all, how can I help you? You know what I'm saying? But that's what I love. And that's why I go in every room with grace, because I know I have a knowledge that can help anybody, but I also know that somebody in every room can help me. And so I go in a room to serve. And if I don't know nothing, I'm there getting information to be able to excited about it. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, man, that. That $2 million tax bill punched me in the face, man. It punched me.
- [41:00]
John Gafford
I'm trying to remember who said this. I don't remember who it was. Somebody was talking to a room full of people and said, who in here has made a million bucks and in one year? And you know, if you haven't, raise your hand and there people, everybody in the room, a lot of these people raise their hand. And then he said, you know what? Whatever. Take the amount of money that you, you. You've made the most you've ever made. And then the difference between that number and a million dollars, that's what you paid in ignorance tax. Just because you're not bothered. Because making a million dollars isn't hard if you just go find the information on how to do it. But people just get complacent and sit in their. Sit in their lives and coast along and drift along which way? You know, obviously escaping the drift. That's the whole point of this. And drift along without ever just seeking the information they need to get out of it. Why do people do that, man? Why?
- [41:54]
Leon Howard
Well, a lot of. A lot of times, man, you know, you get sold on. It's the best they get. You get sold on it, man. Like, you get sold on it, man. What art. I was a point in my life, man, where every day I got up, I was like, yup, it's gonna be prison or death. I'm cool with it. It is what it is because 60, 75 of the people who I know have passed away. This how they passed away. So eventually, like, I'm not. I'm not better than them, you know what I'm saying? These are people I looked up to. These are people out. So, you know, you cool with it. And, and even in prison, bro. Like, I was just telling my. I had a speak speaking last week in Dallas, and I was telling them, imagine being in prison doing 10 years, and you talking to somebody and y' all both feel like you could do another 10 or 15 years. That's the conversation like, bro, what you gonna do when you get home? I'm gonna hustle, boy. You know, I could do another 10. That's the conversation, right? So you, you don't think you're better. You get some sold on the environment. You get sold on. Yo, this is my outcome. This is good as it gets, right? Like, they, they over there being millionaires, man. I can't ever. If I ain't gonna be a millionaire selling dope, I ain't gonna never get there, you know, if I ain't gonna be a millionaire jacking dope dealers, I ain't gonna get there. And so you get sold on the environment, bro. And, and that's why I'm so grateful for. That's why I say again, God is so amazing, because that man put those six little phrases and I attached to him. Now, I didn't come home and do the right thing out the gate, but in my mind, I was using that to get me here, to get me there, right? That was gonna be the next step. And so that's what it is, brother. Like, so many people just get sold on the environment. And then it's like, yo, man, it's good as it get.
- [43:52]
John Gafford
I think, you know, I think. And I'm not just talking about, you know, impoverished neighborhoods. I'm talking about middle class neighborhoods, man. We're about to have a real problem in America because AI is coming for your ass. If you've got some menial job, if you've got. If you've got some job that you don't have to think a lot about, you better figure it out right now because you're going to have a real problem real fast. I mean some of the stuff that we, you know, even for my companies that we're developing through and I'm not talking about chat gbt, right, you know, plan my trip to Mexico. I'm talking about AI agents that can manage other AI agents to, to run your company. Dude, we're about two years away from some 17 year old kid running a billion dollar company from his parents basement with the smartest robot CEO on, on Wall Street. The CFO that could have gone to Wharton. And it's all, they're all, they're all bots. We're about two years from that.
- [44:47]
Leon Howard
Listen, we, I just, we just had a conversation yesterday. I came yesterday, we was loading some stuff up here and we talked about that and I said, bruh, I said almost the same thing you said. I said, you know, we only about 2 to 3 years away from like AI being 60 of the workforce. The workforce, they putting them in warehouses and that's what I mean, warehouse jobs gone. They about to have automatic cars. So that means Uber and Lyft gonna have to do something, right? They got them everywhere. But I'm like, so if so many people about to just go and they not gonna know how to figure it out. And I said the crazy part about that AI situation is nothing is safe. Nothing is safe. So you gotta keep learning, you got to keep evolving. Because the minute you think your job saved, you lost.
- [45:44]
John Gafford
Well, I think that's why I resonate so much with you man, is you know, like with my new book coming out in November and the podcast and kind of everything I do that is my quest, man, is to wake people, is to wake people up out of that mediocrity, man. Because you know, like you look at the name of this podcast and the name of my book is the same thing, Escaping the Drift. But. And I'd Irwin McManus on here the, a couple weeks ago when he said something that was just unreal, right? He goes, you know, he just kept coming back to it because he just, he's Irwin and that's what everyone does. And he's amazing. But he just kept coming back to the name. He's like, you know, he's like. The worst part about that is life moves on whether you're moving or not. So the problem, the problem is as life is moving on, it's carrying you in a direction that you may not necessarily want to go. So it replicates more movement and you think you're Progressing. You think you're moving and you don't realize you're going over the waterfall until it's too late. So right now, you know, with all of this coming, man, it's my quest too, to wake up as many people as I can to take control of their lives before they don't have a choice because.
- [46:57]
Leon Howard
And I think you got the voice for the.
- [46:58]
John Gafford
Man, I got the hair for it. You got the voice, I got the hair for it. That's all I'm going for.
- [47:07]
Leon Howard
But that's it, man. People. And I think that's what's going. That's what I think is so great about media, right? It's. It's being able to go direct to consumer, going direct to people saying, hey, here's what you need to do. And of course we can't save them all, but every day you get on this show and every time you drop a show and every time you drop a book, you plant the seed in somebody and. And all we need is a seed. A seed got me here, you know what I'm saying? A seed. Somebody drop a seed on you somewhere. So a seed. That's what these media platforms. And so I think, yeah, I got.
- [47:44]
John Gafford
Smacked in the face yesterday by. By a buddy of mine. Smacked me in the. Not literally smacked me in the face, but yeah, I got smacked in the face, dude. And I'm. I'm the same as you. It's like, if you're not coachable, you're never going to get to the next level. You got to take criticism, especially from people that know what they're doing. And a buddy of mine was in my car, gave him a ride to the airport yesterday. And he runs a company that advises some of the biggest personal brands and brands on the planet on content creation. And he's trying to. He's all sudden, like, decided, because my book's coming out. He's like, ah, we're going to sort you out, we're going to get you squared away. And I had started this little thing on my socials, like, oh, I want to get my book on the New York Times bestsellers, blah, blah, blah. And he looks at me, he goes, yeah, man, it was just flat, no engagement on it sucks. And he goes, yeah, man, I gotta tell you, we did a full audit on your deal and we're gonna square it up. But as I look at that, what's in it for the reader, man? What's in it for the viewer? Like, that's about you. It's like you're posting Ego shit, nobody cares. And I was like, ooh. And just prepping for this with you a little bit today, of course, I look back to some of your content and dude, you don't post anything unless this, what I'm saying right now, is designed to do one thing, and that one thing is help you.
- [48:58]
Leon Howard
Nah, that's so, so that's, that's so real, man. Early on, I made a conscious decision that everything that we drop was designed to help a person. Watching what we was doing, everything, none of it was about me. People be like, yo, tell, you know, we gotta hit, like, we gotta hear a story. And. And I'll be like, ah, that's more about me. You know what I'm saying? And it'll help somebody. Yeah, but that's more about me. How do I. When I. When I really got into speaking heavy, it was how do I pour into people to help them? So everything we do, everything that I do, everything about my brand, one of the things that we have here is this obsessed over the user. You got to be obsessed over the user. So anybody that comes in here, we got to be obsessed over them. Anybody that tried that gets a piece of content from us, we got to be obsessed over them. Anything that we sell, we got to be obsessed over the person that's taking this, taking their time and listening to us, taking the time to go in there while and buy something from us. How do we be obsessed, Obsessed over helping the person have a experience. And for me, it's.
- [50:18]
John Gafford
I'm.
- [50:19]
Leon Howard
Again, we talked about me just being passionate about this. I'm passionate about like helping somebody because I know that sometimes, you know, we can always say, man, nobody wasn't there for me. Well, somebody was praying for me, man, you know what I'm saying? Somebody probably couldn't be there for me financially, but I know some people that was praying for me and that helped me. I know that. You know, when I was going to trial, my mom couldn't come, but there was a girl I was dealing with and her mom came to trial. And that was. That helped me. And so when we don't get the help that we want from the people that we want, there's always somebody else else that's there that we don't see. And so for me, when I'm putting my information out there is, yeah, it might not always get the engagement that I want, but I know for a fact I'm helping somebody.
- [51:17]
John Gafford
Dude, I do you crush, man, because you're so giving in everything that you do. That's why you crush, right? So when I'm looking at this today, I'm like, I mean, I already knew he was right because the dude's a genius. I mean, if he built that liver king dude, dude, he can help me. So I was just like, all right. Yeah. You know, before he knew he was on steroids. They just believe he wasn't. But he took the gift. Yeah, they built. Yeah, they manufactured him out of thin air. It was, it was amazing what they did. But anyway, so this is something I started doing, man, that I really like, which is kind of a rapid fire deal. So I, I don't, I chat GPT. I tell you, obviously it knows who you are. And I say give me 20 lightning round questions that we just answer as fast as possible. You ready? Dude, I love this style.
- [52:03]
Leon Howard
Let's go.
- [52:04]
John Gafford
Been doing this style, it's great.
- [52:05]
Leon Howard
Ready?
- [52:05]
John Gafford
All right, here we go. Stocks of real estate for steady long term wealth. All right. First financial skill you teach a 13 year old. First financial skill you would teach a 13 year old.
- [52:22]
Leon Howard
How to sell.
- [52:23]
John Gafford
Great. What habit still pulls you back into survival mode? I don't know.
- [52:36]
Leon Howard
What habits put me back in survival mode.
- [52:38]
John Gafford
What happens? What can happen that puts you instantly in survival mode.
- [52:43]
Leon Howard
Something with my family logo. My family in danger logo.
- [52:47]
John Gafford
Hoodie or button down suit? Where are you happiest?
- [52:51]
Leon Howard
Button down suit, man.
- [52:52]
John Gafford
Bubble tea or Red Bull? Which one? Bubble tea or Red Bull? For long nights looking at charts.
- [53:00]
Leon Howard
Oh, man.
- [53:02]
John Gafford
Bubble tea.
- [53:03]
Leon Howard
Bubble tea.
- [53:03]
John Gafford
All right. Biggest wealth building lie you have ever seen go viral.
- [53:11]
Leon Howard
Saving makes you wealthy.
- [53:13]
John Gafford
One book. Both trap kids and Wall street kid execs should read.
- [53:25]
Leon Howard
Financial freedom. My only hope.
- [53:27]
John Gafford
Is trading crypto a trap or a trapdoor to freedom?
- [53:32]
Leon Howard
Oh, that's a sick one. Trap door to trap door.
- [53:39]
John Gafford
What's your most hated investing advice?
- [53:46]
Leon Howard
Buy index funds.
- [53:47]
John Gafford
Only you could scream one stock name. What is it? Nvidia passive income myth or must have.
- [53:57]
Leon Howard
Must have.
- [53:58]
John Gafford
Black owned or mainstream brokerage? What matters the most?
- [54:05]
Leon Howard
Damn mainstream.
- [54:09]
John Gafford
They put it on you, man. It's not me. Chat GPT, Instagram or YouTube. Where do you win the best? YouTube therapy or money coaching? What's more urgent for your audience?
- [54:23]
Leon Howard
Therapy.
- [54:23]
John Gafford
Favorite word in financial circles that should be. Should be banned.
- [54:29]
Leon Howard
Generational wealth, fear or greed.
- [54:31]
John Gafford
What's your true enemy?
- [54:36]
Leon Howard
Greed.
- [54:36]
John Gafford
One thing people assume about you that isn't true.
- [54:42]
Leon Howard
That I'm. That I'm mean.
- [54:45]
John Gafford
Best financial decision under $100 you've ever made.
- [54:53]
Leon Howard
Buying my daughter her first stock role model.
- [54:55]
John Gafford
In billionaire culture, you'd pull into trapper U.
- [55:04]
Leon Howard
Bill McDermott.
- [55:05]
John Gafford
All right, and there it is. And there it is. 2020 fast questions with the Wall Street TR. Dude, I love it. It's so funny. I've been doing that. It's great. Which is awesome.
- [55:16]
Leon Howard
That was great.
- [55:17]
John Gafford
Let me ask you, I'm gonna ask you one more. That is a. My new. It's actually this is for me more than anything else because I asked. It's funny. I have asked this question twice. I asked it to Erwin McManus and I asked it to Neil Dhingra and both of them answered in a way that. We'll get to it a minute. Here's the question. What's one question on podcast you wish people would stop asking you?
- [55:48]
Leon Howard
They asked so many. It may be what was it like?
- [55:52]
John Gafford
Okay, there you go. The reason I asked, the reason I asked that is because both Irwin and Neil answered with questions that like I've asked a million times. I'm like, I'm like not asking that.
- [56:04]
Leon Howard
Nah, people. But for me it's always, man, what was it like in prison? Like what, what you want to say?
- [56:09]
John Gafford
How would the food's bad. I wore a jumpsuit.
- [56:14]
Leon Howard
The only, and I will say the only reason the suit. The only reason I answered the suit. And now because I'm starting to like suits, man.
- [56:21]
John Gafford
You know what it is? I'll tell you that. I tell you people, I tell people this all the time. Dress for the day that you want, not the day that you have. And there's something about when you put on that. I just bought two new suits yesterday, right? They'll be here in about three weeks. But something about, man, when you put that suit on, it's like Superman putting that outfit on, you can just take over the entire world. Something about it. I'm with you, dude. Something about it.
- [56:44]
Leon Howard
A couple, a couple, a couple months ago, maybe a year ago I would have said the hoodie. But I, I mean I've been buying these Tom Ford suits, man, and I've been getting these tailor made suits, man, and they just, man, they feel.
- [56:58]
John Gafford
No, here's. Dude, I saw a clip of you. I think it was your Dallas speech when you were on stage in a suit. Was that you in a suit in Dallas? Was that, that was. I got, I gotta, I gotta tell you, man, you were owning that room and I think that suit had something. I think it did, man. I really think it did.
- [57:15]
Leon Howard
Yes, sir, man. I love it, man. You know, and that's, that's part of the evolution of who I am. Just evolving, being better Growing into new things, not being stuck in the same mindset, you know, evolving. Because, you know, I want to be a person that when people look at me that come from where I come from, they can look and say, damn, bro. Like, I saw that evolution happen and I can be that. You know what I'm saying, bro?
- [57:38]
John Gafford
I normally sum up the show with like some eloquent quote about what happened today, but I think that just did it. Trapp. If they want to catch up with you, where do they find you, man?
- [57:49]
Leon Howard
Thank you for letting me be here. You catch me on Instagram, Wall street, underscore trapper on YouTube, Wall Street Trapper. And then we have another new channel we created called the Wall Street Looks like us now network. So. Yep, man, Hit me up, man. I appreciate you, brother.
- [58:04]
John Gafford
I love you, man. I love watching what you do. You. You. You keep at it, bro. I'll see you soon. All right.
- [58:09]
Leon Howard
Thank you, brother. I appreciate you, man. Thank you for having me, man.
- [58:12]
John Gafford
Like he said so eloquently. And I'll. I'll butcher now trying to do this for you guys. I don't care what your circumstances are. I don't care where you start. It's not about where you start. It's about where you finish. And if you want to finish better than you started, the answer is information. Go get it and use it. We'll see you next time. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escaping the drift.com you can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, Throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.