← Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Underachiever to Entrepreneurial Success: Robert Glazer's Journey and Wisdom
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- [00:00]
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- [00:13]
Robert Glazer
Experian.
- [00:15]
John Gafford
Hey, it's John Gaffer from the Escaping the Drift podcast. And big news. My new book, Escaping the Drift is coming out November 11th. You can pre order it right now at thejohngaffer.com There are tons of bonuses, tons of giveaways. Get the book. If you are somebody that feel like you might be drifting along, this is for you. If you know somebody that feels like they might be drifting along, this is for you. Available everywhere, all bookstores, every everywhere, Amazon, Barnes and nobles, the whole nine yards. But pick your copy up right now at thejohngaffer.com and get a bunch of the awesome bonuses I've thrown out because I promise you, I put my heart and soul into this thing. I want it to help you change your life. Pick it up everywhere. What is the one question you get asked on podcasts that you wish people would stop asking you?
- [01:05]
Robert Glazer
That's a good question. I wish they would ask. Stop asking me.
- [01:14]
John Gafford
And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along. Escape the Drift. And it's time to start right now. Back again for another episode of like it says in the opening man, the show that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today I got a guy that's literally got the compass to get you where you want to go, if you will. He is an extremely successful entrepreneur. He's the founder and chairman of Acceleration Partners, which is a leading global partnership marketing agency. He has written a bunch of incredible books, including a brand new one that we're going to talk about today. He's been a number one Wall Street Journal, USA Today, an international best selling author. The new book that just came out just hit the bestsellers list. I can't wait to get into it. Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Robert Glaser. Robert, how are you man?
- [02:16]
Robert Glazer
I'm good. How are you today?
- [02:17]
John Gafford
Thank you so much for joining us. I Appreciate it so much as always.
- [02:23]
Robert Glazer
Thanks for having me.
- [02:25]
John Gafford
Yeah. So let's jump right into it, man. Let's give me a little, you know, not obviously back to high school, but how did you get into what you're doing now? I don't need the. I was born a child of Boston. I just need the skip to the good stuff.
- [02:38]
Robert Glazer
I guess the answer is probably underachievement. A decade of underachievement led to some guilt and some overachievement, if you want the, if you want the short story. So that's probably how I would put it all together. And I realized, you know, I was good at building businesses and marketing in general, and those are things that, you know, the school system doesn't. Doesn't super reward. So it took me a while to figure out, you know, that the things that I was good at were the things that I wasn't spending a lot of time doing. And the things I was not good at was the things that a lot of the traditional school systems and institutions around me supported. So once I fell into creating things and entrepreneurship, I knew I had my home and started building some businesses and learned to kind of write along the way, first in the marketing industry. And then I had started a note to my team that got. People started sharing it all around the world. And then it turned into a newsletter that I called Friday Forward, because it was forwarded and then led to some books. And then suddenly we're here on this podcast today.
- [03:43]
John Gafford
So let's, let's, let's go back as you skipped over so quickly, your decade of underachievement, what was, what was your dec. Achievement? Talk about that, because so many people are doing that, man. You're not unique to that. You're looking at one of them.
- [03:56]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, I, you know, sometimes when I speak, I, I start with my report cards from first and, and really everyone from first, second, they're like, yeah, he seems kind of smart, but we can't get him to, like, engage or do work or, you know, he doesn't. He seems basically below his ability was. Was what whatever report card said for, for years. And that probably was true. I just wasn't super interested in what they were teaching in school and sort of checking all these boxes. I was running a little now and later candy business on the side until my grandmother shut it down. And then I was running a moving business in college. And, you know, no one ever said, hey, maybe you're, you're, you're good at this. So I think it took me a while to figure out sort of how to meet my own potential. And a lot of my writing and books are focused on this concept of capacity building. Like how do we build our capacity in service of what matters to us? Right? To become better both, both leaders and just in life at the things that matter to us.
- [04:57]
John Gafford
Well, I think you said something interesting, which was on your journey of discovering capacity and figuring out what you were really good at or what was inspiring to you. I mean, obviously you said you had a moving business in college, so entrepreneurship started pretty early for you. What was it like? I just had a light go out, but that's okay. What was it like for you starting that first business? Or when did you realize that most entrepreneurs like me are chronically unemployable? When did you realize that might be your issue?
- [05:27]
Robert Glazer
So I always said, again, whether it was the 10 year old candy business or hey, if I'm going to drive to school, I might as well rent a truck and take a bunch of other people's stuff and take it home and I'll pay for my truck and I'll make some money. So I, you know, I didn't grow up around any entrepreneurs. So I realized it when I was 26 or 7, right before my last job and someone was offering me a job to move to California. I was working with the company as a consultant. And he said, if you don't take this job, this will probably be the last job you ever have either way. He's like, you're probably pretty close to becoming unemployable. And he kind of meant that as a compliment, but he was right. I basically did not take that job. I started two businesses and I've never had a job since. Fact, people reach out all the time. And I'm sure you get this, like, hey, my so and so's daughter is looking for a job and you want to give her some advice. I'm like, I'm like the worst person to give career advice. Like, I don't, I haven't looked for a job in 20 years and I don't have a resume. And like, I don't know what, what, how I can help you with that. I was like, I said I'm unemployable. You know, as according to people that.
- [06:34]
John Gafford
That'S always so funny. Like when we have to get bank stuff sometimes and you're getting loans for things and doing what you were doing and they're like, can you submit a resume? I'm like, I don't have one. Yeah, like you said, yeah, I'm gonna have that W2 employment job in many, many moons. You know, let's talk about something that when I saw this on the sheet, I thought it was really interesting. And I want to talk about the power of this because I thought it was amazing. I want to talk about your newsletter.
- [06:58]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [06:59]
John Gafford
Because you said you started it just as a note which grew into this. And I want you to talk about how you grew that newsletter to 200,000 people that were getting it, what you were able to do to monetize it, and what that meant for the rest of your career. Because I think people skip over that step and I think it's so important. I know.
- [07:15]
Robert Glazer
Yeah. Look, timing, timing and being early on platforms is. Is really important. You could work ten times as hard and have the wrong timing on a platform and have less of an outcome. So I started this note after it was sort of improving my morning routine. I said, I'm going to write kind of a note to my team on Friday mornings. And I started sending it. And I didn't know if anyone was reading it. But after like four to six weeks, I started to get notes where people was clear they were sharing it outside of the company. And I never thought it might have value to other people. Was about. I didn't have the term capacity building at the time, but it was about kind of getting better and doing these things on, like just little things around. It wasn't about our company per se. It was like again, a story about how you could get better at something. And they all have anecdotes. And so basically after people told me they were sharing it, I was at a CEO conference. I told people, hey, you know, I have a remote team of 40 people. I started this note every Friday. It helps me keep in touch. I really like it. And they said, great, well, send us a copy. And one of them started his own and has done it until this day. And the other three were like, this is great. We'll just send this to our teams every. Every Friday. So I was like, huh? Like, I wonder if other people would like this. People are asking me about them. I don't really have a I. So I created that. I signed up for like a WordPress site and I created a archive of them and I created a very simple newsletter thing and I took 300 friends and family and I put it on it, man. That first week I said, send. I was like, I'm going to get hate mail. Like, take me off this. What the hell is this? Or otherwise. But I didn't. And people could sign up. And a couple of weeks later, there was an article in inc. Someone wrote, this is the only newsletter I ever read. And 2,000 people signed up. And I. They were syndicating it to LinkedIn and LinkedIn was sharing it to millions of people. And they signed up. And then I was probably a late, early adopter in moving to Substack because I was paying a lot of money for this newsletter list. I never thought about paid. And obviously their model is tied to paid. And they kind of pushed me. I'm like, all right, I'll try paid. I'll do a second newsletter and I'll share the tactical things. I'll give the archive. And I have over 1200 people who are on the paid version of that now. And Substack's been a great platform. Again, I was early, right? And Substack has put a lot of things. They don't let you port newsletters anymore like they did two years ago. So I don't know if you started today, you know, if you could get kind of to where I was. So look, some of it's luck, some of it's timing, but really, like, every week I just try to write something super impactful for people. And every week I hear from someone around the world that says, this is the best one you've ever written. And it has nothing to do with what I wrote that week. It's that that message hit them at the. At a. I'm playing the odds out of hundreds of thousands of people, like, perfect message, perfect time, and it made a difference for them. And so that kind of motivates me to come up something with the next week. And I just hit 500 six weeks and I haven't run out of ideas yet.
- [10:18]
John Gafford
What's your process for coming up with ideas?
- [10:21]
Robert Glazer
Add. It's really good. It's good at that. I have 100 deep of idealists. Like, in fact, I wrote in my 500th. I sort of was reflective and I was like, now, like, it has made me a better be more aware of, like, oh, like I'm going to pay attention to this interaction. This could be a good prompt for my story this week. Or I think I'm like, I'm kind of. I'm like a reporter. I'm like out in the world looking for a story because it's usually an anecdote that then leads to some sort of lesson or moral or story. And so. And sometimes I'll find the anecdote. And I had the thing I wanted to talk about, the something Effect right on my list for a. And then there was a story where that happened and then it brings it together. But that's the real world story as the prompt has been the sort of best format I think for it.
- [11:10]
John Gafford
Do you use any of your other social platforms to maybe test ideas before you go all in on the newsletter with them?
- [11:17]
Robert Glazer
No. In fact, like that's the, that's the testing ground. I think that that is the testing ground. Yeah. And LinkedIn are, you know, I just, I just put the stuff out there. I think so much of people's the problem was with writing this sounds strange or just not writing right. Are thinking overthinking, saving the draft forever. You know, it's a five minute note every week. It's digestible. You know someone, someone I met someone, they were young and they asked me to look at something they had wrote and it was really good. And she said I took six months to write it and whatever. And my feedback was like, I think if you keep waiting to write pieces like this, first of all, I read the whole thing because you asked me to, but it's really long and it's really good. I, I, I think you're not meeting society where I think if you were to write more often and shorter and just get it out there, you, you would have a little more escape velocity.
- [12:09]
John Gafford
You would do better. That, that's, that's interesting that you would say that from a guy that writes books. You know, that gets.
- [12:19]
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- [13:17]
Robert Glazer
I write books honestly now. My format, my best selling book, you can read them in an hour to an hour and a half.
- [13:23]
John Gafford
That's it.
- [13:24]
Robert Glazer
I think the format of books of a 300 page book, nonfiction books are super repetitive. So they can be $30. My hardcover that I just is $17, it's half the size. And it gets to the point and people are always like, I finish your book. And it feels like a huge accomplishment to them because they usually pick up a book and you know, they read a third of it and they're like, yeah, I get this, like, I get the formula. So I, yeah, I've elevate was like an hour. This book's like an hour and 20 minutes at most. Like, I don't, I'm not writing long books.
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John Gafford
Do you, the audiobook, do you do your own audiobooks?
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Robert Glazer
I do because this was a parable. I did the introduction. I think if you, if you have a voice that you use and you, you know, some writers are writers. I have a podcast. Like, you know, and so like, I think it's weird when you don't you have a brand. I think it's, I think it's very strange. I, you know, I'm probably in trouble for saying this, but, and I won't say who, but there were some authors a couple years ago, I think who got pressured into having like more diverse voices, you know, do their thing. And one of them is a super well known guy and he has a podcast and an audio and I'm listening and it's a woman reading his book.
- [14:36]
John Gafford
What are you doing?
- [14:37]
Robert Glazer
Yeah. And I'm like, you, you have a, this is like James Earl Jones and you're getting a woman. Like, it just, I was like, you have a brand and a voice and I'm used to hear it and this is very strange. It feels not, not authentic and that you're trying to do something that people want to hear. Similarly, again, there's a lot of women that I follow and I wouldn't want to hear a man that doesn't sound like them narrating their book.
- [15:00]
John Gafford
Yeah. I got to tell you because my book's coming out actually in two weeks and I went to LA and did the audiobook and it was the hardest.
- [15:08]
Robert Glazer
Thing, hard I've ever done.
- [15:10]
John Gafford
Well, you don't realize how quickly you speak until you get in one of those booths with an audio engineer who's like, nope, slow down. Too fast. Too fast.
- [15:18]
Robert Glazer
Well, yeah, and so this one, I did the intro. It's a parable. So I did the intro and the conclusion. But, but the actual book has multiple characters and I wasn't going to be a voice actor like, you know, because it's not my voice. So we let someone else do that. But I'm sure you found this too. You get in your head like there's times when you get two pages without a blurb and then there's times you can't get out of a sentence for five minutes and you're like, I just can't get out of the sentence. And it keeps getting worse and worse.
- [15:45]
John Gafford
Yeah, when I got there they were like, yeah, we booked you for four days to do this. I'm like, four days? Like that's insane.
- [15:52]
Robert Glazer
There's no way that long. Did it.
- [15:54]
John Gafford
No, no, no. It took me about. It took me two and a half days but it was. Yeah, I told everybody when I got back. Listen, if you ever listen to an audiobook, have an immense appreciation for the effort that goes into hitting every single syllable that comes up.
- [16:08]
Robert Glazer
How many, how many words? How many words was it?
- [16:11]
John Gafford
I'm 270 pages, so 40,000 words is about where I'm.
- [16:16]
Robert Glazer
That's exhausting. I did, I usually got mine done in one day but it was usually like in a six or seven hour setting and it was hard.
- [16:24]
John Gafford
Yeah. So let's talk about the first book. So have you always been self published? Have you always done that?
- [16:30]
Robert Glazer
No, I've done a combination of a couple were self published but then I work with sourcebooks which is part of Penguin Random House for my last book and for my kind of biggest books, I like hardcovers. And so this is the thing like you know, paperback can all be on demand, on edge all around the world. Moving hardcovers globally and with a global audience it is like old school distribution houses and boats and shipping and I don't have time to manage all of that.
- [17:01]
John Gafford
Yeah, no, no, it's, it's definitely. I also went with a publisher for this first one and you know, it's interesting what you learn through this process and I don't know if you found this or not but for me and apparently with first time authors this happens a lot that a lot of the people that you run into in the book industry for whatever reason are associated with one side of it, a PR or whatever it is. A lot of them are, can just, are just full of shit. Because they can be. Because you don't know.
- [17:30]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
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John Gafford
And it's very difficult and mess.
- [17:33]
Robert Glazer
Apps publisher is not going to publishers a little like a venture capitalist. Like they make some bets and if they start to pay off, they double down. So you know, if your name is Malcolm Gladwell, they're going to put a lot of money behind your book but they'll give you an advance and they're not going to do anything other than publish your book. Right. I think that's the reality that most people have come to. So self publishing was really big and it was a great alternative. But then these guys all doubled and tripled in price to the point where like look, you can keep a large part of your margins or whatever, but you're paying them 40 or 50 grand. And then that has a different equation too. So it's kind of all gone in circles. But it does seem like a lot of people are. Hybrid publishing. I think you basically have to go out there and assume that you have to do everything.
- [18:16]
John Gafford
Well, I think the challenge and you can probably appreciate this as a marketer, but the challenge becomes when you start looking for the return on the spend for what you can do online. Right. If you're not self publishing, the margins are so terrible on what you're in from.
- [18:29]
Robert Glazer
Make a dollar a book or something.
- [18:31]
John Gafford
You're so far up down that you can't run. Like we had a huge digital marketing campaign. We were going to run back to a funnel and it just became impossible to do because I'm used to clearing 7 to 1 at least on every dollar I spend online. And here it was like, okay, you're going to go negative like 4 to 1. I'm like I would rather buy the books and have them sit in my garage if I was going to do that. It's cheaper. At least I'll get something out of it.
- [18:55]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, you should really buy them and mail them. I mean that's what I've learned over them is I was rather figure out how to get books and, and put money and speaking dollars and stuff to get books in people's hand than do a bunch of marketing stuff that doesn't work. And look, I just did a huge mass market launch. It took me six months. And every time we do it and we did a hundred things that were different and and, and 10 out of the hundred worked. Right. And move any meaningful. So you got to always focus in on what that 8020 is.
- [19:24]
John Gafford
Yeah. And you see what her mosey just did and just completely change the whole script for how that works. That was.
- [19:29]
Robert Glazer
Except he didn't make the list. I they knew was all gamified in terms of. Yeah, but you know there was a lot of people pushing that through affiliate stuff. I actually got a note from someone. I was like dude, this is like super inauthentic. Like I know that you're going to affiliate for this. This has nothing to do with what you normally do or promote, and you sent this newsletter to your kind of donor list. It's. It's strange. So this is. This is the problem. I think you got to find where the authentic message hits. And I. I think he wanted to prove Alex is a machine and he had a platform. He wanted to prove how he could kind of break it. But. But it was, you know, again, I. All those books were pre. Sold, basically packages.
- [20:10]
John Gafford
Oh, yeah. What? Just. Just wild. Well, let's talk a little bit about the new book, man. I want to get into it. I mean, obviously you've written some great stuff, but you seemed very excited about what you're doing now. So let's talk about the now.
- [20:22]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, this is what, this is the thing I got asked the most about since I wrote my book Elevate, where I talked about needing to understand your personal core values as sor foundation for getting better. And people are like, great, how do I do that? And I would be like, well, it's not that simple. I worked on it for six months and I built a training program and a process, and eventually I built a course which I could send people, but I wanted to kind of bring that work to more people. And so I ended up doing it through a parable where there's a character who's going through these core value life crises, and he kind of meets a mentor that helps him figure out his values. And then each of those decisions, what I call the big three, your work or vocation, your community and your partner, what he needs to do next. And those make sense. So it shows, shows it to you, and then it tells it to you at the end. And I have a formula to figure out your personal core values that I think is very different. I think core values, everyone knows they're important, but they become a little bit ruined by the companies with all their BS stuff and all the one word values like family and integrity. This process is like differentiated things where you can say, look, this is what I value and I should make decisions based on it. And of all the people getting the books and reading it, it's interesting. This character, Jamie, they're. They're like, like Jamie's just a mirror. There's. There's. You have had. If you. When you read, like, there's a scene that you've had with a boss or with a partner or somewhere that, like, that. That will like, light it up for you and remember, oh, yeah, that's why that felt really bad. I was talking to someone this morning and he was like, I Just like I got angst in the scene, one of the scenes with Jamie and his boss, because it just was so similar to one of the conversations that I had in my. In my job. So I. I think we all have fairly deep core values. I think they go back to our formative childhood years in which we are decidedly trying to double down on things that were important or run away from things that were painful. And these things show up for us in all aspects of our life and our leadership. And either we realize it and that's a strength that we work with, or it's kind of running us rather than we're running it.
- [22:20]
John Gafford
Yeah, I'm a firm believer in finding your biggest weakness and turning it into your biggest superpower. You know, I told a story on a podcast yesterday where I was talking about. I was talking about, as a kid, I got picked on a lot, right? For my 8th grade year was just miserable. And it was probably. I mouthed myself into a physical altercation that I wasn't quite physically up to. Up to. Up to engaging in. So I deserved it, don't get me wrong. But then my entire friends said every kid I've grown up with kind of turned on me and, and called me chicken and just ostracized me for my whole eighth grade year. And it developed in me this kind of need to be a people pleaser. And so that's where it showed up of me, kind of saying anything to get to make people happy and, you know, doing things that, you know, might not be in earnest or honest to make people like me. And what I've realized later in life is when I recognize that that was the problem. I also realized that what that benefited me was an incredibly high EQ with people. So I know when I'm losing people, and that's kind of become my superpower. And when we sit, when I sit with CL or potential people work with, it's like, look, you're never going to meet a better deal maker than me because I just have this innate understanding of when I'm going to lose someone. Like, I know when I've got them. I know when I'm going to lose them. I know when to push. I know when to pull because of that getting picked on in eighth grade. So in retrospect, in the long term, what was something that scarred me deeply as a child has become my biggest superpower.
- [23:44]
Robert Glazer
You are reading a whole thing I have in there. Look, purpose and pain live very close to each other. And I think for a lot of us, this is why I'M not a therapist. I spent a lot of time talking about childhood stuff with people because I can always connect the present to it. I'm not trying to fix it, blame it, whatever. Like, just understand it happened and it's driving you now. And I have a different version of what you say. I think that every weakness is a strength overused in most cases, right? Like, if you have. If you. Like, this is a really good thing for you, except where you overuse it. So a lot of people's thing that they're really good at comes from an experience like you talk about. In fact, I was having a conversation, I spoke last week at a conference. A gentleman came up to me after, and he was like, I really like this framework. It's super different. And we were talking about his sort of values, and here's a perfect example. And I. And he was like, I just. Like, he's talking about. It's very important to me. And he was a lawyer and a site, like all these things. He's very important to me to help people unlock their creativity and to be creative and help them grow. And that's what I do really well. And he was kind of really passionate around. I was like, look, that's. That's very specific. Again, in my experience, for. Again. So let's let. If you indulge me for a second, like, were you a really creative kid or were you not a creative kid? Right. No, no, no. I'm this guy.
- [25:00]
John Gafford
This guy.
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Robert Glazer
This guy I was talking to, right? And I was so surprised for what came next. He goes, actually, like, I wasn't. Because when I was 14 years old, someone had me take this Stanford assessment, and it basically told me I wasn't creative and so to not focus on that and I wouldn be good at that. And then he was like, holy shit. I kind of never really thought about that to this day. And I was like, I'm pretty sure that being told you would never be something at 14 years old, probably. And this guy basically helps other people be creative because he's always been longing to do something creative and still sits with this thing where he was told it wasn't him. And he was having all kinds of epiphanies after that. But I just find if you're willing to ask that question, that story is always there.
- [25:51]
John Gafford
You know, it's. It's funny how I actually came up with that story is. I don't remember who said it, but I saw somebody online say, if you really want to, like, go deep in the rabbit hole, ask. Chat GBT the question. Ask me 10 questions about myself to reveal something that I don't even know about myself. And that's where I even kind of got to like, oh, my God, I didn't even realize this was such a thing. And it just kept going deeper and deeper, which was. Was wild. And I think that. I think that's one of the beauties of AI. No, AI should not be your licensed therapist, if you really need one. But for those of us that are borderline, okay, but you just might want some. Take a little look under the hood with yourself. I think that's a good way to do it.
- [26:31]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, it can help ask you those questions. And look, we have these things. They show up in our operating system. They show up in our relationships, our leaderships, in our community. So imagine two people who get married. We'll go with Susie. So Susie, these are two real stories, but these people didn't get married. But this is what it looks like. And Susie's mom was 10 when she was told that she had cancer and a year to live. And she ended up living until 17. And so for Susie's entire teenage years, there was no tomorrow. If you were going to take a trip, it was today, and you do it today. And so her orientation in life became, you do it today. Now Susie marries Mike. And Mike grew up with a gambling dad who blew away all their money, and there was never a tomorrow. And. And so he. He started becoming a saver and a planner because nothing in his house, like no one could look for it. Now Susie and Mike married. This is a problem, right? This is what I call a danger zone. They are going to have to navigate around this because her operating system is present, present, and his is. Is future. And so maybe if they both understand it and they talk about it, they can be like, look, as long as we save enough a month, you can spend the rest on what you want. We do one impulsive vacation. We do one planned vacation. But now imagine I come up with. You don't. When the people in your life, you don't have to have your core values, don't have to be identical, but they need to be in harmony or not the opposite. Imagine I come up with three more situations like this that Susie and Mike have opposite core values. They wake up every day with these four danger zones that they have to navigate around. That's just going to be really hard. And that's the same if it's our job environment, if it's our leadership thing. If you work in a company and your Core values include all perspectives. And you are told every day to unilaterally make a decision without talking to people. It's just. It's just going to burn you out.
- [28:21]
John Gafford
Yeah. When you talk about your personal core values, would you mind sharing what they are?
- [28:26]
Robert Glazer
Sure. That's usually a common question. So again, you'll notice there, there are no one word core values in these and they're not things you're going to kind of hear like you don't. Anyone would say so. My dominant core value is find a better way and share it. Health and vitality, self reliance, which has been since I was like very young. Respectful, authenticity and long term orientation. So each of those passes sort of a four point test that I have called the core validator, which is where most of these things fall apart, which is, can you use it to make a decision, past or present? When you imagine the opposite of it, does it strike a nerve? Like if I ask you, we'll test this out in a second. So I'll test that with you. I won't show you. But. But the true testament value is when it's violated, it doesn't really feel really good. So a lot of times when people are circling around something, I invent the opposite avatar. And if they're like, oh yeah, get me away from this person, then I know we're on the right path. And then it's. Is it a phrase rather than a word? I've never seen one word. Core values that can kind of help really be actionable because they just don't have enough meaning. And then can I objectively rate myself on it? Like I'm doing a good job or not a good job. But as I mentioned, this anti thing is so telling. So if I asked you, John, like what, Tell me a, a behavior. I don't know the person, but what's something that just boils your blood when people do it? Like a behavior?
- [29:51]
John Gafford
Late, when people are late drives me absolutely batshit crazy.
- [29:55]
Robert Glazer
Okay, so what about being late drives you crazy? Is that, is that, is it actually being late or is that dish now? Now I realize I was a minute late for the podcast.
- [30:04]
John Gafford
No, no, no, no, no, no. You had a good reason, though. We've all had the same reason you had for being late. No, the reason it drives me crazy when people are late is because I am a firm believer in how you do anything is how you do everything. And if you are completely. So that shows me that you don't value your potential at all. And then B, it shows me that you Value your time far more than you value mine. And I think that is the. I think that is one of the. Because time is so finite to us. I think when you get a little older, you start to realize that. I think when people don't value my time, like, you can still. I'd rather have you steal my wallet than then waste my time. I place the wallet easily, but the time, I can't.
- [30:43]
Robert Glazer
So, so. Right. So your va. You probably have a core value of don't waste anyone's time. Right. I like, like the. Whatever. The end that was so strong that if we thought about the inverse is either something about respectful or don't waste everyone. That's not an integrity that, like, that's a very specific thing that, you know, you would, you know, say to other people, and then I'm, I'm, you know, I'm. It'd be interesting. Sometimes I dig into where that came from. Like that, were people wasting your time? Were they not respecting your time, you know, when you younger? Or was it, you know, there probably was a for against story there.
- [31:15]
John Gafford
Well, again, I, I think it's kind of the purpose of this podcast. The message in my book, it goes back to, I, I was drifting through life for so long and wasted so much time.
- [31:25]
Robert Glazer
Time. Yeah.
- [31:25]
John Gafford
I wasted so much time that now I'm like, I think to myself all the time. You know, granted, it's never too late. Colonel Sanders started KFC when he was long in the tooth and gray. But, but my point is, I personally feel like if I just would have gone on it at 22, 23, where would I be now? You know, what would I, you know.
- [31:41]
Robert Glazer
If I would have that extra eight.
- [31:43]
John Gafford
Or nine years back. Yeah. If I'd had. Where would I, where would I be? You know, where would I be? So that's my deal with time.
- [31:49]
Robert Glazer
Right. So if you're at a party and you talk to someone and they just seem like they're wasting their time and your time and not doing anything. Yeah.
- [31:57]
John Gafford
You're just like, politely excuse myself.
- [31:59]
Robert Glazer
Exactly.
- [32:00]
John Gafford
Excuse myself.
- [32:01]
Robert Glazer
So again, it's, it's these, it is these formative moments, right. You, You. You turn that pain into something that's super positive and probably a value for you. And the best thing you could do is tell everyone that. Tell in friends and family and whatever. Like, look, if you're going to waste my time and yours isn't the right. This isn't the right relationship.
- [32:23]
John Gafford
Yeah. I actually have a chapter in my book. Well, not a whole chapter, but a part of one of the chapters about mentors and mentees and it talks about being an asshole, which I just. You get one shot at it. If you come in and ask, you come in and ask me what to do and I've already done it and I tell you exactly what to do and then you do the polar opposite. That's it for me. I'm out. Like, I'm out.
- [32:42]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, I have a similar thing and I just saw it on networking, like, hey, can you catch up? And I want to pick your brain. And someone's like, look, anyone who says that is not being good with your time, they would be like. Because they'd be like, you know what? They don't really want to have coffee to me. They want to be on John's podcast. So tell me you want to be on John's podcast and I'll reach out and ask him if I think it's a fit. Like, don't waste my time for the thing that you want to ask, ask me for. Right?
- [33:08]
John Gafford
Because especially, yeah, I don't need, I don't need a 30 minute meeting for something an email could accomplish.
- [33:12]
Robert Glazer
Right. I don't need a lot.
- [33:13]
John Gafford
And how you're the same because you're going to get the same response.
- [33:16]
Robert Glazer
I, I, look, I want to catch up with my friends and the people that I haven't seen. I don't want to catch up with people who haven't talked to me in 15 years because the truth is they need something if that's the only reason they're gonna catch up. Right. How many people catch up without an. Some people do, but, but 95% of people catch up with an agenda, which is nope.
- [33:35]
John Gafford
But here's the worst, but here's the worst part about that. The people that don't have an agenda that want to catch up are completely in a state of arrested development and they just want to talk about, hey, remember 15 years ago when we did this?
- [33:46]
Robert Glazer
And it's like, remember the glory days?
- [33:47]
John Gafford
Oh, dude, I really don't remember that and I really don't care. And yeah, I can't do that either.
- [33:54]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, look, here's an example. Like I went to speak with, we had some great that were lived with us and they moved away years ago and like it happens, we kind of like fall out of touch. But they're really great friends and we were, we were in town at something there and we went out to dinner with them. We had an amazing four hour dinner. Now we both understand we live in different cities now and different lives. But I did Want to catch up with them. There was no agenda. They were just, they were people that were very meaningful at a part of our life and now we both live in totally different places. And I would do that. That's a, that to me is a good, good catch up.
- [34:29]
John Gafford
Well, let me, let me ask you this because how do you reconcile this? Because I think we're very similar on. Don't waste my time. I love, like, like, my greatest joy is seeing people. Like, I like the accomplishments of my team. I like the accomplishments of the agents that work with us. I like their accomplishments than I like my own. If they come from me, I get more pride in their success than I do in my own because I felt like I directly impacted somebody there. So how do you balance. Because I'm sure you, you're the same way. You're obviously doing all this to help people. So how do you balance that? Wanting to help people but also needing to draw a line with them.
- [35:03]
Robert Glazer
So this goes to my core values, right? Which is my number one core value is find a better way and share it. So I enjoy helping people make better, but I don't enjoy the act of giving without people doing something with it, which sounds similar to you. So I can tell when people are. If you ask something of me and you're asking me to do more work than you're willing to do yourself, then I don't really want to help you with it. Right? But if you're, if you're, if you're a mentee, if you're taking it, if you're running, if you're executing on it, if you're, if you're working harder than you're asking me to work, you know, I help the people like back to. And this is what I would do. I really want to be on John's. Hey, I saw you were on John's podcast. I really want to be on his podcast. I'm a fit. Here's why. I'm going to draft you an email that you can copy and paste to John that makes you look really good with all the info you need to the invite, so you don't need to do anything. Awesome. Let me help you. Like you're, you're, you're helping yourself. So for me, it's just again, am I, am I, is, is the per. Yeah, we all want to impact, but, but I want people. I want to pick the right horses, right? Who are, who are the best coaches? Tell me that they piss. The people who win all the best coaching awards every year. Talk to Them, they're like, I pick the best clients. I do not pick unwilling people who don't want to be coached. I pick really good clients who want coaching. And that's why I win these coaching.
- [36:20]
John Gafford
Awards I have here because we're in the real estate space. That's what we do here. And I have people that hit me up all the time and I want to come work for you. I want to come work for work for you. I have like an eight page thing that I go, okay, here's the deal. I'm going to send you this thing. And it's essentially what it looks like to work for me for the first 90 days. Expectations, outline benchmarks. If you don't hit this, you're done. I said, you read this, you agree with everything on it, then we'll talk about it. About one out of 20 people that gets that sheet calls me back.
- [36:50]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, well, that's interesting. Yeah, they don't want to do where I say all the time. People reach out about the job thing. We joked before and I have a whole standard, I have standard templates. Hey, Sally, I haven't looked for a job in 20 years. Like, I don't know who's hiring, I don't know who's a great place to work. I'm not focused on CFO jobs. Like, again, these are all things I would never ask someone else who's not doing that right where's good to work. Do you know who's hiring for the cfo? All this stuff. Like, I have a ton of connections on LinkedIn. If you come to me with a job, you do the work and you find out that, you know, mark, at whatever CFOs is hiring and you're connected to on LinkedIn. And here's my resume and here's the job. And I really wanted, I applied and can you sit. Mark, a note. And here's the note and here's my info. Sure, I'm happy to send that. Like, I'm happy to help, but like, you're asking me to do more work on your job than you're willing to do. And I'm not super excited about that.
- [37:45]
John Gafford
Let me ask you this, because I have a philosophy. I'm curious what you think about it, which is it seems like ever since COVID ever since the COVID lockdowns, there's this level of apathy that's just running through everything, everybody and everything just, I mean, it just everything, everybody you deal with in, you know, the service industry or retail or whatever else there's Just this. The level of an interest in doing an elite level job seems to be gone.
- [38:14]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [38:14]
John Gafford
And I think that's something that people are going to have to address pretty quick because I think a lot of these jobs are probably about to go goodbye. I mean, do you agree that Covid had something to do with this or.
- [38:26]
Robert Glazer
Is this just where we are? I think there's like burnout after Covid and everyone's like when are we going back? When are we going back to how it was in the good old days of huge budgets and lots of hiring and all this stuff. I'm like, because it was easier and like, I'm like, good luck waiting around for that. Like you know someone who's willing to work harder than you or. Look, I'm big believer in, I don't believe in work life balance. I believe in work life integration, but I think in having that. But, but listening to 23 year olds with no kids and aren't married talking about work life like you, you should be learning, you should be, you should kill yourself in your 20s because A, you have the energy and the stamina and your body can handle it and you should be learning like a sponge. Right. And, and getting better and developing some world class expertise that you will then be able to unfairly monetize in your, in, in your 30s and, and beyond. So, so I don't think like again just work for work sake or work weekends. But you know, people are putting all these restrictions on, on their career and before they're good at anything. And I, I think that's horrible advice and I'm sorry that it's. Look, this is stoicism. This is the reality. Everything right now is more work and less result. So there's some people who are going to be willing to do that if you're not and if you're just waiting for it to go back to how it was and then there's AI and there's other stuff you may be waiting for a long time. So your only choice is to look at where we are now and what is it that you can do from where we are now. I don't, as we talked before, I'm not worried. The good old days are in the past. I don't focus on the good old days.
- [40:04]
John Gafford
I think these kids in their 20s, I have found that Gen Z is in most cases going to eat the millennials for lunch. Some of these kids are just savages as they come out. But I also think that there's a pressure that social media has place on Some of these kids for an expectation of quick results that is just not sustainable. See, a crypto kid with a Lambo, and you're like, well, why don't I have a Lambo? I'm 21. You know, when I'm trying to apply for a job at XYZ Company, it just. How do. How do they manage that? How's the next generation going to manage all of this?
- [40:39]
Robert Glazer
It's very hard because it's all this external expectations. Again, this book has really appealed to people in their 20s and their late 40s the most. I think they're either like, all right, let me figure out the stuff I should be doing, because I really value it. Look, some of the crypto kids, and they value ego and fame and being seen, and they might be miserable, but they're showing all of these things. I think no one wants to hear this, but there's an amount of success and money after which it doesn't make you happier. I know no one believes that, but the data all proves it. I remember this study that asked people from 100 million in net worth to 100 million in net worth, how much was enough? And what do you think the answer was?
- [41:21]
John Gafford
A million was enough.
- [41:22]
Robert Glazer
40% more than whatever they had.
- [41:24]
John Gafford
Oh, 40. They just wanted more was the answer. More was the answer.
- [41:28]
Robert Glazer
More was the answer. And you and I have met a lot of successful people who have everything that ostensibly would seem to make them happy, and they're not. And so I know people. It's hard for people on the other side of that to see that, but it just lets you make sure you're fighting the right fight and in the right race, because sometimes you win. And you're like, I don't like this. I don't like this view.
- [41:54]
John Gafford
Yeah, yeah. I'll have a chapter in my book about, are you playing the game by the right rules? Because so often people are trying to win. I'll give an example. People are trying to win the wrong contest. And I'm going to give you this example because it happened again. I was in Napa over the weekend. We were up there with a bunch of friends. And one of my friends, this is his thing, we were with eight people at a table at a restaurant, and the waiter came over and he said, what would you like? Blah, blah. And everybody started ordering. And Eric noticed he was not using a pen. Right? He was not using a pen.
- [42:26]
Robert Glazer
I have so many stories, but this.
- [42:29]
John Gafford
Is what he does. This is what he does every single time. That's what he does. He goes hey, there's eight people at the table. Listen, if you want, we're happy to wait for a second so you can go grab a pen so you don't make any mistakes. And the guy's like, oh, no, I got it. He's like, okay. I tell you what. If you're taking that route, if anything comes out wrong, I don't have to tip you.
- [42:47]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, deal.
- [42:48]
John Gafford
And this dude went with no pen. And the reason is. And here's the point of that. At no point in any Yelp review I've ever read about a restaurant does it say, holy crap, the waiter had an amazing memory.
- [43:02]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [43:02]
John Gafford
It's not part of the equation that you're trying to win of make money.
- [43:06]
Robert Glazer
I love that example because I say it. I remember specifically when my family. Everyone orders martinis, and we ordered eight, and they were all different, and she screwed up every one of them. And I was like, again, I don't know what you're winning on this. You're only losing.
- [43:20]
John Gafford
Yeah. There's no upside in that equation other than, wow, what a great memory for five seconds. But you're risking your livelihood. What you pay your bills over. Over the opinion of eight strangers to think you were smart, that are never going to think about you again. And it happens all the time. And people, I think, in life do that so much.
- [43:40]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [43:41]
John Gafford
They take risks like that. That don't matter. They're trying to win the wrong game.
- [43:45]
Robert Glazer
Exactly. I think that is very illustrative of that. And yeah. And it's an expectation thing. Right. My expectation is not that the waiter can memorize everything. It's that he or she does not get my order wrong.
- [44:07]
John Gafford
I think what it is. And I'm guilty of this. Back when I used to wait tables a million times. Pen guy. Which is why I can say this. So waiters of the world, before you rise up and, like, want to boycott my show and cancel me over saying this.
- [44:19]
Robert Glazer
You're recovering. You're recovering.
- [44:20]
John Gafford
I'm recovering. I was you at one point, and I was a guy that never used a pen. And for me, personally, in retrospect, looking back, it was that I thought that what I was doing was beneath me and beneath my station. And this was my way to prove to these people that I would never see again that I was better than what they perceived me as doing.
- [44:40]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [44:43]
John Gafford
So I was willing to literally risk my livelihood on a parlor trick. It was stupid.
- [44:51]
Robert Glazer
Well, look, you at least realize that, right? Yeah. Yeah, it is.
- [44:56]
John Gafford
So when does. So the book just came out. It's already on the Wall Street. Wall Street Times bestseller.
- [45:01]
Robert Glazer
It's in the USA Today. Wall street actually doesn't exist anymore.
- [45:04]
John Gafford
That's right. They got rid of it. I'm sorry, New York Times.
- [45:07]
Robert Glazer
So I could just say that I want it out.
- [45:11]
John Gafford
We'll make it up.
- [45:12]
Robert Glazer
Yeah, exactly.
- [45:13]
John Gafford
We'll make it up. And that's it.
- [45:14]
Robert Glazer
No books out. There's a course that goes with it. Like I said, it's a parable. It's a story about a young 20 year old named Jamie who's running into some challenges with his fiance, his job, and the community that they're trying to settle into. And he really needs to understand his core values to make those decisions. So you watch his journey as he's coached by a mentor. And then at the end, I tell you exactly how kind of what you saw and how to apply the same frameworks.
- [45:42]
John Gafford
Okay, what's the long. Obviously, man, you're still doing these companies. You're writing, you're doing this. What's your long term personal goal? Where are you trying to get to?
- [45:49]
Robert Glazer
Interestingly so again, I've set a values based goal without awareness now, where I'm trying to help a million people figure out their core values over the next five years. This is the first non financial, not sort of revenue, business growth goal that I've set. But it's really an impact goal. And in that way it's not. Not. It's not necessarily about the destination. Right. Doing 500 of those is gonna feel good and feel fun. So I'm really trying to think about things differently through that mindset.
- [46:23]
John Gafford
All right, I'm gonna ask you one last question. You can feel free to answer it even if I've asked you this. You ready? What is the one question you get asked on podcasts that you wish people would stop asking you?
- [46:37]
Robert Glazer
It's a good question. I wish they would ask, stop asking me. I don't know, something is in my bio that they could have just read. I guess it's just probably the answer.
- [46:48]
John Gafford
I think my favorite answer to that question ever was Erwin McManus, who, when I asked him that question, he goes, I wish people would stop asking about my childhood. Who cares? Just ask me about what I'm good at.
- [46:59]
Robert Glazer
It's funny.
- [46:59]
John Gafford
And I had asked him about his childhood.
- [47:01]
Robert Glazer
I actually always. I always start by asking like, so what were you into in a kid or otherwise? And I find it super interesting that it connects to what they're doing today. So I think it's a good question. I don't think that's a super common question, but where. Where did you come from is kind of relevant to where you are today. I found.
- [47:20]
John Gafford
Yeah, I've always found that most of the people that come through here, it's always divorced parents, usually it's a first hustle at some point in your. As a kid, moving through that. And it's just always. You were always hustling for some reason. It's always hustling.
- [47:34]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [47:34]
John Gafford
And almost nobody got good grades.
- [47:37]
Robert Glazer
No, I was. I was the C student that the A students ended up working towards. So.
- [47:41]
John Gafford
But here's the. But here's the question, though. Let me ask you this.
- [47:43]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [47:45]
John Gafford
Was it you couldn't. Was it you were not doing well in all of it or was it just. Cause like for me, I could get an A on just about any test that was put in front of me. But I never did homework. So I got Fs and all the homework. So I got straight Cs.
- [47:58]
Robert Glazer
I just.
- [47:58]
John Gafford
Cs.
- [47:59]
Robert Glazer
I just couldn't be into stuff that I wasn't into. Right. I think that was really the. At the end of the day, that was the. That was the difference for me. So it's. If it wasn't, I can't. Once I actually got through, my sort of real flip was when I got through college and I got through all the required courses and I started my major and then I got all A's, no matter how hard it was because I was super into it and I was engaged in it and then I had no problem learning. So that's the. I think that for me was the sort of impetus there.
- [48:34]
John Gafford
That was it. Yeah. I managed to. I made it about two years in college before I felt the institution had nothing further to offer me. And. And that was the end of that. So anyway, man, dude, it was super interesting conversation. I'm going to go out and get your book. Obviously available everywhere books are available.
- [48:51]
Robert Glazer
Yeah.
- [48:51]
John Gafford
And dude. And next time you cut a new one because from the looks of this, you'll have a new one out in the next couple of years and I'd love to read whatever comes out next. And I'm going to subscribe to the newsletter. Still do the newsletter. Yeah.
- [49:00]
Robert Glazer
Friday Forward. Yeah. Would love to have you on it.
- [49:02]
John Gafford
Love it, love it. And so if they want to find you, how do they find you?
- [49:05]
Robert Glazer
Yeah. So the book is@compass-within.com. got great endorsements. You know, George, who wrote 2 North, Pat Lincioni. All of my stuff, including Friday Forward is @robert glaser.com Robert well, thank you so much, man.
- [49:21]
John Gafford
We will see you. Listen, if you didn't get any of that today, you're crazy. But I think it all starts with having like you talked about. If go buy Robert's book because you've got to have a North Star that you're navigating your life by. And if you don't, you never know when you're off track and you're going to start to drift. We'll see you next time. Hey, it's John Gafford from the Escaping the Drift podcast. And big news. My new book, Escaping the Drift is coming out November 11th. You can pre order it right now at thejohngafford.com There are tons of bonuses, tons of giveaways. Get the book. If you are somebody that feels like you might be drifting along, this is for you. If you know somebody that feels like they might be drifting along, this is for you. Available everywhere, all bookstores, everywhere, Amazon, Barnes and nobles, the whole nine yards. But pick your copy up right now at thejohngaffer.com and get a bunch of the awesome bonuses I've thrown out because I promise you, I put my heart and soul into this thing. I want it to help you change your life. Pick it up everywhere. What's up everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escaping the drift. Drift.com you can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.
- [50:52]
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