How a 25-Year Wall Street Career Led to a Massive Performance Breakthrough (Evan Marks)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Escaping the Drift with John Gafford

Episode: How a 25-Year Wall Street Career Led to a Massive Performance Breakthrough (with Evan Marks)

Release Date: February 24, 2026
Host: John Gafford
Guest: Evan Marks (Founder, M1 Performance Group, Former Wall Street Portfolio Manager/Trader)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the high-pressure world of Wall Street through the journey of Evan Marks, who, after 25 years as a top trader and hedge fund manager, experienced a personal crisis that catalyzed his transformation into an elite performance coach. The conversation dives deep into the dangers of attaching identity to career, the importance of processing emotions, the value of routine (especially evening reset), and actionable strategies for achieving true performance breakthroughs by addressing inner obstacles rather than solely “grinding harder.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Evan's Formative Years: Sports, Family, and Early Responsibility

• Background: Grew up in the Tri-State area, self-identifies as a New Yorker (02:30), went to UPenn to play D1 lacrosse alongside his twin brother, raised by a single mom.
• Athletics & Identity: Emotional and social lessons from team sports, especially the camaraderie and bonds formed, which paralleled later experiences in professional finance (06:52).
• Early Work Ethic: Started working (as a busboy) at 12. The drive came from circumstance, not a conscious plan (09:45).

2. Wall Street Career: From Market Maker to Hedge Fund Manager

• Transition to Finance: Introduced by his twin brother (who was recruited by Steve Cohen, now Mets owner) to the hedge fund world post-college (10:34).
• Work Dynamics: Never “smile-and-dial” sales—managed significant capital, answered only to the results and the firm's principals. The work was a relentless pressure cooker (11:32).
• Relentless Pace & Mental Cost: "For 25 years, I never liked one minute of it, but everyone was doing. The money was good." (13:59)

3. The Breaking Point: Health Crisis as a Catalyst

• The Panic Attack (46 years old): After years of chronic stress and unaddressed trauma (including repeated athletic injuries/endings), Marks believed he was having a heart attack, which was actually a severe panic attack triggered by years of emotional suppression and cumulative pressure (14:33, 17:31).
  • "I remember like eight years before I looked at my wife, said, I'm committing spiritual suicide." (17:31)
• Identity Loss & Regret: The dangers of anchoring one’s identity to roles that can dissolve, such as “student athlete” or “Wall Street trader.” (18:52)
  • "If you can't attach a real reason to that money, your probability of making that money is going to be very slim." (22:41)

4. Transformation to Performance Coach

• Leaving Wall Street: His neurologist warned him that chronic stress had physically impaired his brain—“you really don't have a choice here.” (27:08) A call from a former performance coach opened a new door in coaching. Marks exited Wall Street, returned to school, and pivoted into elite coaching, beginning with athletes at Hendrick Motorsports (NASCAR) (27:15–29:30).

  • "All of a sudden, my voice changed...This is what I was meant to do." (29:20)

• On Taking Risks / Seizing Opportunity:

  • "Is that something that’s innate in people, that ability to recognize opportunity and jump...or is that something that can be developed?"
  • Evan: "I think anything could be trained. I believe in neuroplasticity. Given the moment…we have the ability to be trained." (30:49)

5. Emotional Mastery & Performance Psychology

• Emotions as Data Points:
  • "Emotions are just data. They last 90 seconds unless you tie stories to them." (32:13)
  • Negative states like fear or sadness aren’t permanent and, importantly, shouldn't be suppressed or pathologized—acknowledge, process, and use them.
  • John: "Nothing is permanent, but the fact that I feel sad or depressed or lonely…are opening a door in the future to feel the exact opposite." (35:55)
• Value of Behavioral Momentum:
  • “Behaviors change before feelings. When John feels happy, he might do something, but often it’s doing something that shifts your feelings.” (46:40)
  • “Motivation is fleeting…Do one thing, that compounds.” (47:21, 56:01)
• The Power of “Zero-Zero”:
  • Decision-making at emotional baseline—best decisions are made not at extremes, but at “zero-zero,” equilibrium. (63:24)
  • John: “Not high, not low, but right at your midline…That's a new one. That's good. I like that.” (63:33)

6. Attachment, Fulfillment, and Growth

• Beware Self-Development Over-Identification:
  • "As we get obsessed with self-development, we can drift further from who we truly are. For me, service to others brings the most fulfillment." (21:09)
• Dealing with Regret & Past Trauma:
  • Regret can outweigh all other negative emotions if avoided; old wounds (e.g., loss of athletic identity) can echo for decades if unaddressed.

7. Actionable Strategies: Routines and Tools for Peak Performance

• Evening Reset > Morning Routine:
  • "Your evening routine is even more important than how you wake up. How you go to bed is going to determine how you get up." (52:19)
  • Techniques: Wind down, laugh, read, minimize screens, plan tomorrow (54:24).
• Emotional Regulation (Guide on Website):
  • Five-step process for emotional regulation and the "20 Minute Evening Reset" available as free resources. (51:59)
• Recommitment & Compounding Behavior:
  • Even in times of success, always “recommit to the basics.” Compounding good behaviors is as powerful as compounding money. (56:01)

8. Advice on Success, Performance, and Mental Health

• “Pressure is a privilege. Be grateful for the problems you have; if you’re not, the universe will give you new ones.” (56:01)
• "We learn everything in struggle, but you can also learn in success—don’t wait for a breakdown to reset or recommit." (60:32)
• The importance of not grading your pain or trauma against others’—"once we start grading ourselves against others, we got a massive problem." (40:44)
• On social media and opinions: “It’s okay not to have an opinion...If you can’t support it, why take up that space?” (49:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Identity & Career:
  • “I stayed in [Wall Street] until I was 46 years old when I thought I had a heart attack.” (13:59, Evan Marks)
  • “I remember like eight years before I looked at my wife said, I’m committing spiritual suicide.” (17:31, Evan Marks)
• On Career Change & Opportunity:
  • “Make sure you liquidate every single position within a week. Now…I watched, I go, this is what I was meant to do.” (29:20, Evan Marks)
• On Courage and Growth:
  • “It takes courage to jump into that capability gap. Once you feel it once, the intensity comes down. It’s not about being callous—it's training.” (30:49, Evan Marks)
• On Emotions:
  • “Emotions generally in science last for 90 seconds...Negative emotion, fear—they’re just an emotion, like joy and happiness.” (32:13, Evan Marks)
  • “I care how you behave. Behaviors change before feelings.” (46:40, Evan Marks)
  • “Not high, not low, but right at your midline…that’s a new one. That’s good. I like that.” (63:24, John Gafford)
• On Performance:
  • “Performance equals potential minus interferences.” (56:30, Evan Marks)
  • “Behavior compounds the same way money does.” (56:01, Evan Marks)
• On Pressure and Success:
  • “Pressure is a privilege. Be grateful for the problems that you have.” (56:01, John Gafford)
• On Routine & Recovery:
  • “Evening routine is more important than a morning routine. If you want to be really serious, protect your evenings.” (52:19, Evan Marks)
  • “Remember tomorrow. What you do today is going to affect tomorrow.” (54:53, quoting Jesse Itzler, Evan Marks)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:30 – Evan’s background: New York/UPenn/lacrosse/single mom
• 10:34 – Start in finance, intro to Wall Street
• 13:59 – “I stayed in it until I was 46...when I thought I had a heart attack.”
• 17:31 – First mention of “spiritual suicide”; roots of personal crisis
• 22:41 – The problem of tying identity to career/money
• 27:15 – Medical wake-up call; transition from hedge funds to coaching
• 29:20 – Breakthrough epiphany: “This is what I was meant to do.”
• 30:49 – Training courage, neuroplasticity, and taking career risk
• 32:13 – Emotions as data, emotional acceptance
• 35:55 – Value the “no,” the power of reframing negative feedback
• 46:40 – “I care how you behave; behaviors change before feelings.”
• 52:19 – The critical role of evening routines in success
• 56:01 – Pressure is a privilege, behavior compounds
• 63:24 – “Zero-zero” baseline decision-making
• 64:22 – Where to find Evan, upcoming Mental Trading Academy

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Resources & Call to Action

• Evan Marks:

  • M1 Performance Group Website
  • LinkedIn: Evan Marks
  • Instagram: @emark72
  • Free downloads: Emotional Regulation Guide & 20-Minute Evening Reset
  • TedX talk (Houston, Jan 10)—releasing soon
  • M1 Mental Trading Academy launching May 1st (for traders and professionals)

• Host: John Gafford

  • Escaping the Drift Website
  • Blog subscription for key takeaways

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Conclusion

Evan Marks' journey highlights that true performance isn’t about blind hustle or tying identity to titles or external rewards. Sustainable greatness comes from processing pain, mastering your emotions, establishing sustainable habits (especially effective evening resets), and continually reconnecting with your core identity and purpose. The conversation is a blend of deep, actionable insights and personal vulnerability—offering a practical roadmap for anyone feeling stuck or in need of a breakthrough.

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“Not high, not low, but right at your midline…that’s a new one. That’s good. I like that.” — John Gafford (63:33)

“Performance equals potential minus interferences.” — Evan Marks (56:30)

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Transcript

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[John Gafford]

And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, Escape the Drift and it's time to start right now. Back again. Back again for another episode of the podcast. Like it says in the opening, the show that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And beaming into the studios via the interwebs all the way from the sunny skit the sunny streets of New Jersey right now. Just kidding. If you're watching this, apparently it's snowing like crazy there. This is a guy that was 25 years a wall street trader and portfolio manager. He was incredibly successful with that. Had kind of a little bit of a crack in his own mental well being and that caused him to have a massive comeback. He is the founder of the M1 Performance Group which is a group that helps athletes, that helps traders. It helps CE sea level executives across the board. He is considered one of the best sea level coaches out there and we are lucky to have him on today. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Evan Marks. Evan, how are you?

[Evan Marks]

I'm doing well. Listen, I do live in New Jersey, but I am a New Yorker and I tell my wife that all the time and I tell people I live in the Tri State area. Not against New Jersey, everybody. I love New Jersey. I live in a place called Westfield. Love it. But I'm a New Yorker. True. You know, through and through, as they say. But I really appreciate you having me here today.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. Now part of the bridge and tunnel crowd, as they call you. Yes.

[Evan Marks]

No, I'm from Long Island. There's no bridge and tunnel. We just have one sort of. We have one road. Right. We want to be years ago. Right. But it's funny. So I moved to New Jersey. I thought I was moving to Connecticut. And then people from New York never want to. Never want to move to New Jersey, but for some reason, which I can't understand, who doesn't want to move to Long Island? So that's. That's another. That's another podcast right there.

[John Gafford]

That's. That's a whole Long Island. Yes. Staten Island's a whole nother thing, though, right? It's a whole nother animal.

[Evan Marks]

Listen, Victory is a beautiful place to be. Some phenomenal traders will come out of that place. But. But I do agree, the islands are different. Yeah.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. So you. You grew up. You grew up in New York, but you went to school at UPenn?

[Evan Marks]

Yes, I went to Upenne.

[John Gafford]

Yeah.

[Evan Marks]

You know, I was an identical twin, and we got crew to play lacrosse at UPenn, and that's kind of where my. You know, it's like one of those things where I was. I was raised by a single mom, and my dad was never around, and we were. Two lacrosse guys got recruited. My dad wanted to see us play ball so badly, and he had one of those old Motorola phones. We're talking about, like, 90, 1990s. And he calls my mother up. He hasn't been around for a long. He goes, I'm here to see the boys play. I see Joe Paterno. I'm at Penn State. Go, Nittley Lions. And she's like, wrong school.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, that's Penn State, not Upenn.

[Evan Marks]

Where the hell is you pen? He goes, is that an. I go, she was. I thought, there's no there, just Penn State.

[John Gafford]

So he missed that opportunity, and that was that. You were lacrosse guy. What did you play? What was your position?

[Evan Marks]

I was. I was a long stick. D. Midi. But it's funny because. So we were soccer guys, my brother and I, and raised by a single mom, and. And she thought we were. We were just violent by nature. Just athletically, I think we called it. We called it raging control on the field. And in our sophomore year in high school, people were like, you got to let the boys play. So we literally started playing lacrosse sophomore year in high school. We recruited to play D1, but we were very lucky because there were a lot of phenomenal athletes on the field at the same time. So all the eyeballs were watching. And then my twin brother and I just rolled in, and we were decent athletes that we got in. Yeah, yeah.

[John Gafford]

I get to. I have a similar thing with my son. So around eighth grade, seventh or eighth grade, I walk into his room and he's watching. He's watching Notre Dame, and I think Virginia play national championship game on lacrosse. And where I grew up, we didn't have lacrosse. It was just. Just in the South. We didn't have it when I was growing up, so I didn't know anything about it. And he's like, I think I want to play this. And I said, oh, okay. So I went on Facebook and I was like, anybody out there that knows anything about lacrosse, can somebody call and help me? And luckily, this guy, Jason Griggs, who's a good dude, hit me up and said, hey, I coach the local club team. Happy to have him come out and do this. And that turned into a long love affair with him in the game. And he was also a long stick. D Midi, same thing. Get in, get out, get in, get out. And

[Evan Marks]

John, is that you don't have to know anything about the sport. You just got to be a good athlete.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, get in, get out.

[Evan Marks]

Nature some eye hand coordination and get the hell off the field.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, get in, get out. That's what we did. And. And he kind of fell in love with it. He ended up. He played through his junior year, but got medically disqualified because he had some ankle issues, so he couldn't play anymore. But the one thing I love about lacrosse, and I tell people, I'm like, man, it's the greatest sport ever if you're a dad, because especially if your kids play defense, because it's one of the few sports that, when you're watching it, it's not like the opposing team's fans are on the other side of the field, and then you're on this side of the field. Like, if your son is playing defense, you're standing over here, and the kids, their dads that play offense are on the same side of the field right next to you. So when your son comes out of nowhere and just trucks some other kid, like his dad is standing, like, three feet from you and just.

[Evan Marks]

There's mutual respect. Like, great hit. That was a legit hit.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, it Was good. No, there was never any problem. But there's just something kind of visceral as a dad, like. Yeah, you know, when you see your

[Evan Marks]

K, it just, you know, so fast, you know. You know, it's funny the. The. The game your son was watching. A guy I played with that pen. His son was a captain on that team. So what happens is, is that, you know. You know, for me, like, obviously not everybody's making D1 or D3 and things like that, but when you talk about youth sports, like, not everybody is going like. Like this D1 or D3, but, like, the camaraderie you learn and this kind of goes, you know, escaping the drift in a way, like the bonds you build, the relationships you form. What is team ship? What is a teamwork? How do we work together? I think team sports. And by the way, I only played six games in college. Blew my knees out once and blew them out again. And as a student athlete, that destroyed me, and I didn't realize why. But when you have that camaraderie on the field, whether you're an All American or you're not, it is so impactful. You know, I have two daughters and. And one's a soccer player, one's a phenomenal dancer. So the dance world, I cheer for all day long. I'm actually not allowed to cheer any longer because she's like, dad, you're too loud. You're a New Yorker. My daughter, it's like, who's. Who's. Who's a lacrosse and soccer girl, man, you just. I'm not one of those parents. Like, I think she's going D1 and. But, like, you can sense the camaraderie and the teamwork and being a Wall street guy, just being a human being, living this human experience. You know how important that is, right? So, like, as your son, I hope he's a little cross guy, because it's a great community.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, no, it was. It was great. Of all the. Of all the sports that we played came. Coming up, I found the lacrosse family to be the best one of all of the different sports. I mean, Vegas here is very baseball crazy. Like, extremely baseball crazy. You've got Bryce Harper that came out of here. You've got several other great players that are playing in the major leagues. And it's like, I remember when he was, like, playing Little League baseball at 8, and it was like, well, who's this hitting coach? I'm like, dude, he's eight. And they're like, well, you're behind. You're Behind. Yeah. And I'm like, dude, I want him to come out here and have fun and make friends. And like you said, learn how to be part of a team, not so much. I don't care if he, you know, he's. I'm not trying to go to the major leagues here is not what I'm trying to do. And it's like, I have a question, like, you went to Penn. Did you go to Wharton, too, or. No, because you. Did you go to bed?

[Evan Marks]

So it's interesting. So it was. It was a late decision. You know, we grew up. We didn't grow with much money. So when you go Ivy Leagues, you know, you don't get scholarships. They give you grants. And we got into a lot of different schools, and they gave us a great financial aid package. So one of the things I got. His name was Tony Seymour. I said, coach, I want to go to Ward. He goes, just. Just. I'm. I'm getting you in literally with minimum amount of money.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Evan Marks]

But you know what happened, though, which is. It's a great question, because. So I graduated in 94, and at that time we were 2. My twin brother and I, we were working with. Since we're 12 years old, and we didn't come for much money. My dad, you know, ironically came a crackhead homeless guy. And so we learned early on, like, we. I don't know what we learned early on, actually. People always ask, like, how did you know to start working at 12? And I was like, I have no idea. It just happened. And we grew up in a place called Port Washington, Long island, which was. Which was the Roy G. Biv of everything. Where was the. It was a melting pot of ethnicities. It was a melting pot of. Of socio. Dynamic economic. And for some reason, my twin brother were bus boys at 12, 13 years old. So my daughter's like, how did you know? I go, I don't know. We just did. So when we had the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school, and we did pretty well. So we were very. We were very good students as well. We didn't realize UPenn was an incubator to Wall Street. We didn't even know what a hedge fund. You don't know what stocks. We didn't know anything. And I was very lucky because I. My. My twin brother's exceptional. He's a wonderful person. He got recruited by a guy named Steve Cohen. Now, Steve Cohen owns the Mets. Now he's something called sac. And my brother's like, ev, you're making mistake. Becoming a consultant, you got to see what these guys do. And that was our first foray, my first foray into Wall Street. So I joined a place called Spirit Leads in Kellogg, and it was a trading place. And. And I loved it at first, but then I realized Jonathan, you know, and I was pretty good at it. Right. Let's go.

[John Gafford]

Okay. Let's go back. So did you start as a house? It's like, was it smile and dial for 10 hours a day? Is that what you were?

[Evan Marks]

I mean, this is hedge fund stuff, right? There's no stuff.

[John Gafford]

Okay, sorry.

[Evan Marks]

Okay.

[John Gafford]

All right.

[Evan Marks]

Right. So I never. I never smiled and dialed, which is so ironic because now I run a coaching firm. So I was never in the solicitation business. Yeah.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Ever.

[Evan Marks]

Right. People gave us money to run, and if we did it well, it stayed for a while and we got bigger and bigger and bigger. So the only person I answered to was the guy's name on the door and how I managed money. So we weren't day traders, we managed money whether it was whatever the catalyst was. But when I first started, I was. I was a market maker, and I couldn't understand why people were telling me what to do. So when you make a market, it's like, make a bid here, make an offer there. Well, I'm like, I don't want to make an offer because I think you're going to run me over. And I want to be on the same side as you. And this one guy, I won't mention his name, has a big firm that. He goes, that's your job. I said, well, that doesn't make any sense to me. I'm going to lose money to facilitate this. I go, I'm not good at this.

[John Gafford]

Yeah.

[Evan Marks]

And I eventually went to the hedge fund business and I spent most of my career there. But. But it's one of those things where. And it's ironic what I do now. It's all mental performance. Like, how are you able to.

[American Airlines Advantage Business Program Announcer]

As.

[Evan Marks]

How are you able to be certain in uncertainty. Right. That you have no control with the market does. Nobody does. So how are you able to understand your emotions and choose properly? So I did that for 25 years. And. And then, you know, anybody on Wall street knows not every year is a Picasso and it's not linear, but for 25 years, I never liked one minute of it, but everyone was doing. The money was good. And I.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name, your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match, limited by state law. Not available in all states. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match, limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Evan Marks]

Stayed in it until I was 46 years old when I thought I had a heart attack.

[John Gafford]

Okay, so what kind of. So, yeah, no, let's back up, Right? So obviously you're managing massive portfolios for people. You have a lot of responsibility that's going on. What is it? I mean, what was a date? What was a day like in that? What's the pressure cooker of that like? I mean, is it, Is it some days are worse than others? Is it everyday high stress? Is it, I mean, is it every day?

[Evan Marks]

Every day is high stress. Right? Because. Because you could be right and be wrong. You could be wrong and be right. But now you are literally looking at the clock constantly, right? So what we know now about mental performances, emotions or data, be conscious about behavior. In that time, all coaches were saying one thing, do the work and get bigger. And if you weren't getting bigger, you were wrong. So now you have to deal with certain swings in the market where it's not. Your P and L system doesn't go like that. Like, you got to deal with massive drawdowns. How do you deal with that? But how about this one? How do you deal with success? So how are you keeping your mental gain intact? So now at 22 years old, you, you get thrown in the arena and you really never learn. So even though there's obviously it's, it's a, it's a wonderful place to make money, not everybody does. But how are you starting to understand performance? Performance is only related to one thing. P and L. Right. Is the outcome.

[John Gafford]

Sure.

[Evan Marks]

Right. So you know, the guys and door are making all the money and it's a very difficult profession. So when you hear hedge fund people, like, not everybody makes money. So then you have to realize, like, what. How is it possible? And this is like almost like poker. Also, like, when you look at the World Series Poker, how are these guys staying on top consistently? So I came to realize over 25 years, I'm like, there's got to be a different story here. And I had these great coaches would just do more work, get bigger. I'm like, that's not the problem here. There are certain things I'm doing that are self sabotaging myself where I don't think I deserve the success. It came too easy. I blow myself up. I'm like, there's got to be more than just get bigger and do the work. So I think what happened when I was 46, I'm 53 now. I moved my family to the burbs. I'm not very trans. I've only been with two funds and I'm a partner. And all of a sudden I'm sitting on the platform. I think I have a heart attack. Things look good on paper, John. Everything looks on paper. Beautiful home, great kids. I assume my marriage is all right, right? We always can speculate on that one. And all of a sudden I think I'm dying. And it's a massive panic attack. So there I run to the doctors, right, because my wife's like, you know, something's wrong here. And they say years of, of chronic stress. I've had many concussions along the way and buried trauma causes because, because there's a. There's a muscle above your heart that can mimic a heart attack. So at that moment, I'm thinking, like, I never wanted to do this.

[John Gafford]

Was there something, Was there something that triggered you that day or was it just. You just woke up? Like, I don't feel good.

[Evan Marks]

You know, it was like, I remember like eight years before I looked at my wife, said, I'm committing spiritual suicide. Just want to let you know that I don't want to do this anymore. And she's like, you know, and she didn't say, keep going. She's not like that. She's like, just go figure it out then. But I had so many responsibilities, and I think what happened, and I really believe this, and I, and I, I can't white paper this, but in two years, we'll be able to. I think the, you know, when we talk about emotions and we'll get into this fear of rejection, acknowledgment, embarrassment, failure, all these things, there's one that trumps them all. And that emotion is called regret. So I think I never really healed as an athlete leaving Penn because I blew my knees out twice, my brother became captain twice. And I think I always considered myself a student athlete. And once I lost the athletic side, I never dealt with. I didn't talk to anybody about it. And I did a TedX talk about three weeks ago about something called post traumatic growth. And I think I suffered from this, but not even. I think I know I did. So I rolled this into Wall street, and I never really healed. I didn't address it. I didn't acknowledge it. I pushed it aside. And what happens when you push things aside? They build and build and build. And I think. And I believe at 46, just. It just came out. So.

[John Gafford]

But let me. Let me ask. Let me ask you a little bit. Let me ask you a little bit more about that because. Because in my book that just came out in November, I talk about how dangerous it is to attach your identity to something that could potentially go away from you and how. How dangerous that can be and. And make sure that you're anchoring your identity within things that you can control, right? Like if your identity is, this is, I am the CEO of this company, or I. This is my job, and that's my own identity, or I am a student athlete, that is my identity, and all of a sudden, you can't be that anymore. It creates a major. Like. Like I. Like you just said, a catastrophic fall off a cliff for a lot of people emotionally, and they don't deal with that. So if you could go back now, and obviously you can't, because that's. We don't have a time machine. That's not how the world works. But if you could go back in time to that time that you were playing lacrosse, and you're doing that at Penn now, obviously you. You have to be committed to it, to perform at that level. But if you could go back and relabel yourself and. And change and relabel your identity at that time, so maybe this doesn't stack up, what do you think you would go back and tell that kid who he was rather than student athlete?

[Evan Marks]

It's obviously a phenomenal question, right? There's no denying that question. It's phenomenal. You know, and. And John, I've thought about this. I don't know, let's call it 30, you know, three decades. I would hope that I would tell my younger self, Go feel that pain for a while, right? I feel it, right? Because I go speak to somebody about this. Because at that point, you got to remember, I'm 19, I'm 18 years old when this happens. Our prefrontal cortex is not even done developing. So if I'm there to reason with myself and be intellectual, that's a losing battle, right? But start to open up about this, and then the question is like, you know, the question should be, I'd like to try something new, right? But what's interesting about this question is one thing, and this. I'm going to get back to the question, but this is. And I want to know your take on this, because I'm not ready. I'm not ready to answer that question yet.

[John Gafford]

Okay?

[Evan Marks]

Because I'm still, I'm still working on that answer, you know, just to be extremely honest. But when we talk about self development, right? When people obsessed with self development, there's so much research out now that we be, we. We. We start to get further and further from who we truly are. So for me, as I hear that and I. And I think about that, I want to improve myself. I want to do some things different. I want to. But I think what would have happened was as I become this and this and this and this and this, I forget who I truly am as a person. And ironically, who I am truly as a person is somebody who wants to serve others always. You know, I grew up with a brother. I said my dad was a crackhead homeless guy, but my older brother was handicapped as well. And to me, service with others brought the most fulfillment in my heart. And as I left June, you know, middle school, then high school, obviously I went to Penn and Wall Street. But I always, in my heart of hearts, in my heart of hearts, wanted to be a teacher and a coach always. And I. And I believe, you know, and this is great. And it's the first. I'm actually discussing this. As I got further and further away from that, I think I got lost and more lost. So when you ask that question, as I think about it today, I wish I had the courage to go do that, if that makes sense.

[John Gafford]

No, it does. And it's funny, I think, you know, it's funny because. Because, you know, I run. Obviously we run a very successful real estate business here, and we've got a lot of people that work for us, about 550 agents that work for us. And when I interview them, it's always about, you know, tell me about your goals and being in this business. In real estate, it's always financial, right? It's always a number that comes out of somebody's mouth. I want to make 300 grand, I want to make 400 grand, whatever it is. And, you know, my next question is the one that normally stumps people, which is why, like I always say, why? Why? What's the money for? And if you can't attach a real reason to that money, your probability of making that money is going to be very Slim. Now, the flip side of that coin is kind of what you're talking about, which is if it just becomes about the money, you lose yourself in that process and you find yourself spending 26 years in a career that you, you dislike just because it provides the stuff, you know what I mean? And is. And the stuff will never fill that, that hold you have inside you to, to chase what you're really trying to fulfill. And I think that's probably what the pivot that you're hitting is now.

[Evan Marks]

You know, I had a client of mine and. And I'm not going to mention his name, he's absolutely incredible. So he had him, he had his, his. His wife had a very traumatic experience, like the last couple weeks and then another traumatic experience. And we're talking about life and he's young. And I said, I said, you know what, man? I said, you can't restore that. It's gone. It's just gone, right? So you know how people try to fill the void. And I was trying to fill that void, right? So maybe I'll get validated from a great trader. Maybe I'll get validated. You know, I was married once before my wife now, which my kids know. Like, I needed that spirituality, me bring that in. So I had all these voids that I was trying to restore and fill. But you know what, John? They're gone. They're just gone. Like a part of me as a student athlete is gone. But what's wrong with that? So my job now is to build new experiences. It's a part of who I am. It's my fabric. It's a part of my mosaic of who I am. It's a part of my story, but it's not my total story, right? So when you think about things like that, you know, when you ask me, why do you want to make money? The obvious answer should be, because I want to have choices in my life, right? Which is one of the build experiences and things like that. But to make money, to prove, to validate this is filling a void that's. That pie will never be restored again, right? And when we let go of that proverbial rope and you're thinking about it because nobody lives a linear life. It doesn't go straight up. We all deal with some sort of trauma, but when we know it can't be restored, it's gotta be, I imagine. But we're all live this human experience. Gotta give you a chance. Like, you know what? There's truth to that. So now our focus goes on through making Experiences and memories and learning about this incredible life experience we're about to have. Right? So it's. It's very. It's. It's interesting. So, going back to your question, what would I might tell my younger self? I don't know.

[John Gafford]

No, it's fair. Maybe we don't have a time machine for a reason. Maybe there's a reason we don't have time machines.

[Evan Marks]

Maybe there's a reason. Right. But what would I tell my son? I'd say, listen, son, feel all your emotions, Verbalize them, express them, and now let's choose what you want to do. That's what could I say to somebody else? Right. For me, in that point, you know, I'd like to say that. Right.

[John Gafford]

Well, let's go back to the. To the point. So you had this. You had this massive panic attack that you thought was a heart attack, and you've realized that that's probably because of 26 years of stress in a job that you don't necessarily love. That is not fulfilling you at a level that is your calling. So my first question is, what is the discussion like with your wife when you say, I'm not going back.

[Evan Marks]

Discussion. I'm sitting with a neurologist, right? He's looking at the gray matter in my brain, which is incredibly impaired. He goes, you really don't have a choice here.

[John Gafford]

Oh, okay. You got medically DQ'd from the hedge fund business. Okay, I get it, all right, John.

[Evan Marks]

If my wife wasn't there, I'd probably still be doing it. So there was. I'm not really DQ because I'm stubborn. He's like. He looks at me, he goes, why'd you become a coach or a teacher? And I look at him, I go, that ship has sailed. I'm 46 years old, got a beautiful home, got two young daughters. I got a lot of responsibility. But ironically, I had. I've had performance coaches in my life, and my last one, I was down a lot of money. I came out of the hole. I think it was just because I didn't have the market right? And I let her go. And she called me out of nowhere, literally days later, and she's like, what are the odds you come work with me? I need your sort of personality, your pedigree, your experiences to break, really get big in this world. A performance coaching. So I'm like. So literally, six months later, I sell my partnership, go back to school, and there I am in Charlotte, North Carolina, at Hendrick Motorsports, coaching Jimmy Johnson and his pick routine. Wow. I'M about to stand in front and tell it and give us. First of all, that's not true. There's two other coaches in me. I'm the newbie. So I'm sitting in a chair. I'm not gonna say anything because I'm gonna watch. Never done this before, but everybody's telling me I'd be a great coach. Now I'm sitting in front of 60 incredible athletes and, and six drivers. So the girls. My head coach is going to speak and this other guy's going to speak. And she looks at me, she goes, you got to tell your story there. I am, John, wearing these, and I tell a story all the time. These light pair of gray trousers, a nice little jacket. And I'm about to give a speech and I feel like I'm going to pee my slacks. Yeah. I'm like, really? At 46 years old, it's over. And in that moment, I felt every emotion and I said to myself, this is where you want to be, ev. And all of a sudden my voice changed. It was like, I don't even know how long. It was an out of body experience. And I remember leaving because, because Hendrick Motorsports, it's almost like Nike. They were performance center. And I remember calling my assistant, like, make sure you liquidate every single position within a week. Now, because I watch, I go, this is what I was meant to do.

[John Gafford]

This is it.

[Evan Marks]

And this is it, right?

[John Gafford]

Hang on, hang on. Because I find that to be interesting too. So I find. No, I find that most people that really find that, that groove as to what they were supposed to do, something comes up that you are either not qualified, not prepared for, or, you know, maybe it's just, it's like scratching a lottery ticket. And the difference between so many people finding their path and not are the people that are willing to scratch that lottery ticket. You know, somebody calls and says, come to Hendricks Motorsports and we want you to be a coach. And you're like, okay, right. Whereas somebody else might have said, well, I'm not quite there yet. I just went back to school. I need to, I need to get a couple of things under my belt before I try to punch at that weight class. And had you not said that, right, had you not been able to take that chance, you wouldn't have had that moment that led this. So my first question, coach, is, is that something that's innate with people? That ability to recognize opportunity and, and, and jump, you know, burn the bridges and, or burn the boats and hit the beach? Is that something that's innate in people or is that something that can be developed in people? What's your what says you?

[Evan Marks]

Another great question. That one I can answer. I think anything could be trained. I believe in neuroplasticity. I think, given the moment, listen, I could have run away that day and still been a great coach, right? So maybe the next time I would have stepped in. So maybe that one moment, even though it worked out and, and, and I've grown since then, won't define you. But we have the ability to be trained. Now. The quote right now we're talking about talented effort, right? But we all, as Nick Saban says, with this a massive capability gap, it takes courage to jump into that gap, right? Because there's no way. Like, like you have a pockets, right? You have an incredible business. Like, you could say something ridiculous on air and get judged and stuff like that. Like, John, why are you doing this? You already got a great business, so you're putting yourself out there. So what happens when you put yourself out there? You're going to be judged. There's a possibility of anything. But once you feel it once, what happens to the intensity of that feeling?

[John Gafford]

Oh, sure. Magnifies.

[Evan Marks]

Well, no, the intensity actually comes down. Oh, I'm sorry, you've already felt it, right? Like, I've been like. How many times have you been judged in life? I'm sure many.

[John Gafford]

Oh, the negative. The negative stuff. Oh, yeah, dude.

[Evan Marks]

The negative side. I'm sorry, the negative.

[John Gafford]

Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Evan Marks]

Yeah. Things that turn us away from courage. But also you do it once.

[John Gafford]

You get callous.

[Evan Marks]

Yes, it's not even callous. It's rep. It's training. Right. So negative emotion. Negative emotions. Fear of. They're just an emotion. Just like joy and happiness and all these other things. What happens is we attach a story to emotions because emotions generally in science last for 90 seconds. That's how long they last. Now, if you tie an experience to them, like, I only want to feel joy. The only way you can feel joy is what? Feeling sadness. Right. But as long as you lynch onto joy too long you have sadness, that sadness becomes extremely intense. So now these are just emotions, right? So we always talk about negative emotions as the Achilles heel. All they are is emotions. And actually, I'll take another point. They're only data points. So I get on this podcast, you're a big guy out of Nevada. I know who you are. I am nervous. Why am I allowed. Allowed to be nervous? I want to do well. I want to speak properly. I want to make sure I Don't say right a lot, which I do sometimes. Right. Fair. True. It's fair. Right? Like I just said it. It's fair, period. Why is that bad? I know this is extremely popular podcast. I want to show up the way I want to show up. I want to make sure I slow down, how I speak as a. As I'm a New Yorker, and this is training. If I didn't care, I don't think the best we would come out. So I have to accept these emotions, tie a new behavior as opposed to saying no. I don't want to do the podcast. I tell my team I like. It's too much for me. I want to show up. I want to be conscious of how I feel. Slow things down a bit. So make sure I'm articulate. I'm a New Yorker. If you heard me nine years ago, you'd be like, there's no way this guy speaks English, right?

[John Gafford]

No. No, dude, I am.

[Evan Marks]

Why am I not allowed to be nervous? Why not?

[John Gafford]

Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting that you look at negativity as data points instead of just trying to wallow. And I mean, for me, like, we do something similar along those lines, which is attaching sort of a positive to a negative. For example, in sales, the biggest fear everyone always has in sales, in any. No matter what you're selling, is being told the word no, right? Oh, no, no, no. That's. That's the thing that runs people down. Oh, they said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And so what we teach our people is value the no. And they're like, well, what does that mean? Well, what is it? What is a yes worth? How much is it. How much is it worth when you get a yes? And it's like, oh, man. A yes is worth $20,000. Okay, cool. How many no's do you got to hear to get a yes? I got to hear 100 no's to get a yes. Okay, great. Then every no is worth $200. So if I told you that I was gonna put you in a booth and people were gonna walk in and call you a name, curse at you, and then tell you no and walk out, and every time they did it, they were gonna hand you $200, would you let them do it? And they're like, yeah, absolutely. I'm like, that's what we're doing here. Don't value the yes. Value all the no's. And then you.

[Evan Marks]

I've heard that before, by the way. I love it. It's like, I'm gonna give you a hundred million dollars, but you're gonna have to take down a thousand no's. Would you do it, like, any day of the week?

[John Gafford]

Yeah, all day. All day. But. But it's the same thing with what you're talking about. When you feel those negative emotions and you have that, understand that, like you said, life is not linear, is data points on a line, and in order to feel it up, you must feel it down. There's got to be equilibrium to the universe. So understand that, yes, nothing is permanent, but the fact that I feel sad or depressed or lonely or those things in that moment are opening up a door in the future for you to feel the exact opposite.

[Evan Marks]

But, but also, John, it's all right to feel these things, right? Like, I, I. You know, luckily, I did have a good career as a hedge fund guy, right? And I have. I've made great investments and stuff like that, but I'm not still allowed to feel lonely at times, Sad. Well, I'm allowed to feel whatever the hell I want. But what happens is I'm allowed to acknowledge it and have a moment to myself, whether it's taking a walk in nature, having a feeling because I'm a compassionate, empathetic person, and having my moment. That's all it is. But I think it's. It's. I think it's so important. There is no such thing as fearlessness. There's no such thing ever. I don't care if you SEAL, Team 6, Delta Force, whoever you are. There's no such thing as fearlessness. Well, face of.

[John Gafford]

Yeah.

[Evan Marks]

How do you behave?

[John Gafford]

Well, that's courage. There's a difference between fear and courage.

[Evan Marks]

That's conscious behavior. That's choice. All these things like. Like, I don't live in your bank account. I live, I don't know, your wife and if you have children, stuff like that. But there's no doubt in my mind that you haven't been sad once or twice. There's no doubt in my mind that you haven't been disappointed. There's no doubt my mind you haven't been embarrassed. And if you haven't, get out there.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, yeah. A couple. Well, a couple of points to what you just said. So, first off, I. I do deal with. I call it the funk. I deal with some seasonal depression that comes up, and when it. And when it hits me, there are days when, you know, I'm like, man, I just got to try to get one thing done. Today, if I can just get one thing done, then it'll be okay. And, and I get through those times. But the second thing that you just said, which was get out there, you know, I find it so funny. We were talking about before we got on the air of my last several weeks of travel, and a big part of that was, was going to Antarctica, but we were staging in the polar opposites of the world, right? So I spent a couple days in Dubai, which is just the most opulent, over the top wealth you've ever seen your life, if you've never been there. And then when we're staging to go to Antarctica, we were in South Africa, in Cape Town for several days. And there's some beautiful, cool parts of Cape Town. But when you're riding from the airport to those beautiful parts and you see those shanty towns, man, anybody, it just makes me want. I, I know for a fact that anybody that you see on television at a protest, talking about how terrible it is to live in the United States of America has never been outside of it. Because when you see that and then you see how we get to live and the opportunities and the choice and, and the overabundance of wealth that we have versus how a lot of the rest of the world lives, it's hard. So I love that. Get out and take a look around because

[Evan Marks]

I've been south, I know what the shanty towns look. You can go to St. Martin and see shanty towns, also Caribbean. But you know where it is though. We all have, like, obviously my trauma, blowing up my knee twice is, is not equivalent to the atrocities that happen in this world. Not even those. But it had a massive impact on me. Right. So when, when we look at places that are just, I mean, not even close to below poverty. Right. And we try to put things in perspective, what happens sometimes is, is that we really dismiss our own things. Where now that negative talk picks up a lot of steam. Like, it's almost like, shut up. You don't deserve to feel that way.

[John Gafford]

Ah.

[Evan Marks]

What happens is that when we talk about post traumatic growth trauma, like, if I'm talking to somebody, and I'm not going to say the obvious, but I think we know what I'm talking about. Me as an Ivy League kid blowing out his knees twice, people like, then I went to Wall street, had a good career, struggled somebody's dad was homeless and cracked it, like, dude, really, like

[John Gafford]

the mean streets of Greenwich, Connecticut, Long Island, Right? Yeah.

[Evan Marks]

But even though my dad was like, you know, work. Oh, he worked at 12, I worked at 11. Right. But you know what it is, though? That's the issue, once we start grading ourselves against others, we got a massive problem, right? Did I grow up in the shanty towns of, of Joburg South? Of course not. And I'm not even saying that. What I am saying that I, I personally felt certain things that I have to deal with as a person. And I think, and, and when we talk about post traumatic growth and like, you know, and I say my TEDx talk, it's not the headlines or the big enough trauma. We all have things in life that we have to address and acknowledge in order to get better. So let's not dismiss the grays that we think they are and accept them. Have a moment, acknowledge, have a moment of reflection and then choose consciously who you want to be.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, I think one of the most interesting things, yeah, one of the most interesting things that I've done with, with a bot was I found myself getting very angry about certain things in business that would happen. Like, my first instinct was, something happened, I get really angry. And I was like, man, I'm. This is not that big of a deal for me to be this angry about this. And I want to start kind of diving into this. And that journey of diving into that took me into like Carl Jungan philosophy with like shadow self and all of that. And I was like, cool. So then I trained a bot to, I said, okay, learn everything you can about Carl Jung and his philosophies and your shadow self. I want to, I want to get in contact with, see why I feel the way I do about these things. So ask me up to 50 questions about myself so you will understand more about my shadow stuff than I do. And I went through this exercise size on a plane flying back from New York, ironically at Christmas, right? On Christmas, I'm on the plane sitting in business class. I know I'm in mid class on JetBlue. And I'm just sitting there laying in my seat, I'm going through this and I'm like, holy wow. I mean, this is unbelievable. And so now I've got this bot that's trained and Jungian, you know, full philosophy with shadow self stuff that now like, I used to wake up at night, right? And like, like I'd wake up after having a dream and like the circus would be going off in my head, right? And I would just forget going back to sleep because I'm gonna sit here and just spin on this for the next two hours. And now like, I wake up and I'm like. And I grab my phone and I'm like, this just Happened, I woke up and this is what I'm thinking about and this is how I feel about it. What's going on? And this, this bot, my phone says, well, this is why, because this, this, you're trying to connect to this and this is making you feel like this. So as long as you just kind of have a plan to push forward on this, you'll be fine. And I'm like, huh, okay, cool. And I can go right back to sleep. It's wild because of that.

[Evan Marks]

I love this story. But I'll tell you how that gets dangerous.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. Okay.

[Evan Marks]

Because. You need to hear yourself and speak to somebody, right? So as a coach, right? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you what we do, right? It's very simple. Presence, listening and questions, right? So what happens is as this bot's telling you things, right? And as we know now, like, bots like to please people, but like, like that's going to change over time. So whatever it is, it's almost like going to a conference or going to a motivational speaker and you feel all these things. What happens is that you never have a chance to really reflect, right? So you're in a constant state of exploration and not really reflection. So as you're asking these bodies 50 questions on a JetBlue airplane and all of a sudden that sounds good to you, right? And then you go with that. It's not really coaching, it's. It's literally an interactive self help book.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, no, no, that's exactly what it was. I'm not trying to say this would ever take the place of a coach or coaching, but it's exactly what it

[Evan Marks]

was because I get phone calls.

[John Gafford]

John.

[Evan Marks]

Hey, Ev. Man. Well, I'll tell you exactly, because I deal with a lot of entrepreneurs and they go that, I call it chat, GPT Law school. Like, we got to talk to my people.

[John Gafford]

Yeah. Or Doc, or Dr. Or Dr. Google, which is not.

[Evan Marks]

Because then that suggestion is very dangerous, right? Because now you have the answer, right? So, but remember, you're the issue and you can be the solution. But now you're playing that duality game, right? It's. Listen, I, I, by the way, like I say all the time, there's gonna be great Harvard case studies on this one also. Right? But it's, it's sort of the same thing, you know, Like, I love the fact that you're aware of what you're doing. Like you have seasonality and you're in the moods, right? It's all right to say, you know, and acknowledge it. But acknowledgement and doing are totally different things. Like if it takes you as you feel sadness or depression, whatever seasonality thing it is. Right. We're all human beings and you forgo and you have a great trainer go into your body for a while and it lets your brain, you let your brain relax a little bit. Wonderful. Right. The fact is we have so many choices to make in order to help ourselves. Right. And the minute we say we can't, I think that's where the problem lies. We do. Right. Like I, you know, John, you don't have to be happy all the time.

[John Gafford]

Oh, dude, trust me. That's my wife. I'm not,

[Evan Marks]

trust me, I'm not so somebody, I always tell clients and they love this, I go, and I'll say, I really don't care how you feel. They go, what do you mean? Okay, I feel, I go, I care how you behave. Because remember one thing. Behaviors change before feelings. So when John feels happy and great, he's going to go do this. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't. So if all of a sudden, in the face of how you feel, you choose conscious behavior and now all of a sudden you feel fulfilled but you're on the opposition's 10 yard line. Wow. I am the game of behavioral. Behavioral change.

[John Gafford]

That's, that's, that's part, that's part of my, that's part of my. I just got to get one thing done today. If I can just push, if I just push the rock one step, then that'll create some momentum and the momentum carries on. And I can say that word one more time faster.

[Evan Marks]

Motivations, fleeting. If, if you know that when John gets seasonal, whatever it may be, I'm still able to do things well. How do you know that? Well, dude, I have evidence. So even though I'm feeling set of whatever's going on internally, I'm still able to do things well. How do you know that? Because look here, like I, I never read Jesse Itzler his book Living with Seal.

[John Gafford]

Oh, dude, yeah, about David Goggins.

[Evan Marks]

And it was no Goggins yet. Right. But he goes to the cookie jar and all that. Cookie jars, evidence, right. So when you think about it, belief systems are based on evidence. I don't care if it's as small as going for a two minute walk. There's evidence. Right. And you can lean on that. So in the face of whatever happens, you can create whatever stimulus comes out to a trigger. Right. I don't know if you read the book, man. Search for Me by Viktor Frankl.

[John Gafford]

Another book.

[Evan Marks]

I mean, phenomenal.

[John Gafford]

Great book.

[Evan Marks]

Yeah, great book. So his whole thing is there is a trigger and stimulus, there's a gap and there's a response in action. We all get triggered. If I said to, you know what, you know, you have the worst podcast of all time. You're an unsuccessful real estate guy, and also, I don't even know you, we just met for the first time and you get upset. It's not me making you upset. It's somebody else who's judged you in your past. Could be your father, mother, all that stuff. But all of a sudden, if you're able to feel because you're a human being, say h, well, that wasn't very nice of Evan Marx, who I met 15 minutes ago. You feel a little bit annoy because you're a human being. And then you say to me, why do you feel that way as opposed to reacting to me? So Victor Frank is like this stimulus and stimuli coming at us all time. So the better we get at acknowledging it, Choosing mental space, which is the gap, and then choosing our response, not reaction. What a powerful place to be, dude.

[John Gafford]

But, but I'll say, in the world that we live in now, where you, you on social media, you have to have an opinion on everything. Like I tell people all the time, it's like one of the most valuable phrases you can learn in this life right now is I don't have an opinion on that. It's okay not, it's okay not to have an opinion because when you start just pontificating opinions that you're a not qualified or don't really have just to fill the space, that's when people start to pile on. And that's when it becomes that, that never ending outside stimulus. That's just

[Evan Marks]

people.

[John Gafford]

People do not people. It's like so funny. We're getting to where you look at like, like alcohol consumption is down and peptides are like, everybody's shooting peptides right now. Which, you know, guilty. But you know, we're also, we're also worried about what goes into our mouth. But, but nobody's even worried about what's going in their head. It's like they just feed themselves with this just never ending sea of garbage.

[Evan Marks]

Yeah, terrible. You know, and I agree with you, John. I always people I say, what do you think about what's going on? Right? I said, I don't know. What do you mean? I said, I'm not well versed, right? I Can give you my opinion but it's really nothing backs it.

[John Gafford]

Yeah.

[Evan Marks]

I go, it's just my emotions speaking. I said but if you put me on a panel I couldn't back my, my opinion. And they go well you don't have to. I go I think you do.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, I think, I think, I think some of it does.

[Evan Marks]

I think it's important. Right. And obviously a lot of people don't feel that way so I never get in that arena. Right though I'm in.

[John Gafford]

You're there. Well I do want to talk about a couple things. I want to talk about a couple things that I know you're qualified to talk about because I looked at them on your website last night. You have some guides on your website that I thought were interesting, right? So you have one which is the emotional regulation guide. It's a five step process to that on there on your site. I'll talk about that. And you have another one which is the 20 minute evening reset which I like too. So let's, I want you to talk, yeah, I want you to talk about those two things because they are available on your website for download and I just, I wanted you to talk about them.

[Evan Marks]

So I have to imagine you wake up early in the morning.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, I get up pretty early

[Evan Marks]

but

[John Gafford]

I'm not set an alarm, I'm not the set an alarm at 4:30 because I gotta hustle and grind. I just, I naturally, I don't care what time I go to bed, I'm. My eyes are open by 6am that's just what time I get.

[Evan Marks]

So this is gonna be very helpful. So I'm a five o' clock guy since I've been 16. Right. I'm a very, I'm an early morning guy. So we always hear about gotta conquer the morning. The morning's everything, right? You wake up early, you know. All true. However, your evening routine is more important. Right? Think about it. How you go to bed is going to really determine how you wake up, right? So I wake up at five but you go to bed at two. I don't care what your morning looks like, it's not the same, right? If, if, if you have a couple glasses of wine and you got a big day tomorrow because you know in the trading world every day is game day. You're not gonna be that sharp. So how are you going to bed? What is your evening routine look like? You show me an evening routine that's solid, dude, I, I can guess how successful this man or woman is. So we forget about that, right? Because, well, I Woke up at 4:45. I'm like, your quality going in was poor. So for all that, I'll, you know, I coach more than hedge fund guys. I'm like, guys, every day is game day for us. Like we are dealing with the world of uncertainty. And uncertainty to us is an edge. However, we got to be certain in our behavior as we walk into this arena. And don't think it starts at 4:45 in the morning, because it doesn't. How are we going to bed? Are we going to bed at 9, 30, 10? Clean, like nice, you know, did we exercise? Are we going to exercise it? Do we take a, A nice shower? Did we down. This is going to downregulate. Do we write down a couple ideas? Like if you don't think that. How about this one? If you don't do that now, do it now. Give yourself a 20 minute. Turn your phone off, turn the TV off, read a couple pages of a book, watch a comedy show. That's what I do. I like watch. I used to watch evenings at the Improv. I'm old, right? Have a laugh because it would lighten up my soul.

[John Gafford]

We're the same age. Don't say you're old. We're the same age. Yeah. We're 53. As soon as you said you would graduate 94, I'm like, we're the same age.

[Evan Marks]

By the way, I had a conversation yesterday with a guy. 1972. Powerful. By the way, March 29th, April 6th.

[John Gafford]

So we're, we're lit. We're literally like eight days apart. Eight days apart.

[Evan Marks]

Listen, I have a sauna in my house. I got, I got plunge. I got all this stuff. I got gin. I use everything.

[John Gafford]

I have it all.

[Evan Marks]

I. I need it. Right? And now all my clients. And by the way, people like you gotta. You can get, you can get a song. It's just like a peloton, same model, right? Right. You could do a pay per month sort of thing. But if you want to be really serious, you gotta protect your evenings. You know, Jesse Edster, who I met, he said something that's so brilliant. And, and it's part of my. And he's a Long island boy, so I even respect him even more. Remember tomorrow. Remember tomorrow. And what does exactly that mean? What you do today is going to affect tomorrow. Now, by the way, this is all bullshit. If you want to stay in the right hand lane, if you want to stay in the right hand lane, in the middle lane, you want to do any of this stuff, stay There. But for people who want to operate optimally, this is what it takes. It just does, right? Like I only coach people who want to live in the left lane. That's it. And by the way, John, and you know this, and I, this is not punishment. This is massively rewarding.

[John Gafford]

Well, I love that one of the things that you say is, is, and I, I've. Every great coach I've ever known says same thing, which is pressure is a privilege. You know, be grateful, be grateful for the problems that you have. Because if you're not grateful for the problems that you have, the universe is going to serve up a whole nother set of problems that you probably won't be grateful for. So the problem, the problems that we create for ourselves by trying to push forward are much better than the ones from us waiting for the universe to suck us under.

[Evan Marks]

You know, that's the whole thing. When I think about, you know, so when people start work with me, like, what's the goal of something? I go, you have choices. They go for me to have choices. Yeah, because I want you to have choices, not choices made for you. What does that mean? Yeah, it's exactly. Pressures of privileges is responsibility. We are, we are. I always, I think you like this one. I treat my clients like secretariats, right? Like the horse. Like, we go hard not to burn it because also we know what rest and recovery looks like. Like all this stuff matters to me. That's all I think about all day long. If we're pushing people not to burn up, but to really taper their optimal state, what is rest and recovery look like? What does all this look like? What does their evening routine like? What is their morning routine like? What is their narrative in their head? How they dealing with emotions tie with behavior which we know in the brain, creates new experiences and circuitry in the brain, like new circuitry, neuroplasticity. So when we talk about mental performance, it's a very easy formula. And this comes, this is, this is known forever. It's performance equals potential minus interferences. What are your interferences? You start to dis, you start to really lessen those or, or, or diminish those. Excuse me. Watch what happens. So what does that mean? So self sabotaging behavior, right? Which is unconscious, right. Drinking, smoking, not working out, like all the obvious that you read in self help books. The 900th one says the same thing. Once you start to change one thing, right? And you know, money compounds, but so does behavior. So when you're not having the greatest days because of how you feel and you do one thing that compounds. So all of a sudden, even if you did one thing, those days, weeks and months start to stack and now time becomes a fucking ally and not a foe, right? So that one thing, even though you didn't do anything, you look up now when times you're feeling a little bit better and there's more mojo in your step, you're not in your end zone, you're crossing the 40 and you're like, I didn't even do anything. But you did. That's compounding behavior compounds the same way as money. So we talk, this is a full circle conversation. We talk about courage and all these things. It doesn't have to be herculean, it doesn't. But just like money, all of a sudden it goes like this. So where one on one is two means nothing. Two, two and four is nothing. Four and four, it's eight stuff. Eight, nine, 16. You start to compound. You look back, you're like, how did I get here?

[John Gafford]

You know, I, I, one of the reasons I love this conversation so much today is because in the era of hustle culture, as I call it, you've got all these young guys coming up and, and they see the, the alpha dudes beating their chest with the Lambo on this and grind and grind and grind and grind and, and yeah, that's fine. Right? That's fine. But there is a, there's a, there's an emotional expiration date on that behavior. And I love that in arenas like this, you can kind of bring the mental health side to that. Like, we're not saying don't go, be successful. We're not saying do everything that is not maximizing your own potential, but we're saying doing it in a way where you're respecting your own mental health and do it for, you know, this is going to allow you to perform at a high level longer than just sprinting till you burn yourself up.

[Evan Marks]

Well, you know, you know, we always say, and I know you know this, we learn. Everything's learned in struggle, right? We hear that you can learn so much in success too. Yeah.

[John Gafford]

Yep.

[Evan Marks]

Right. So like, like, so that means that when people are doing well, it's like, like my clients laugh, right? So obviously I care more about the inputs than, let's say the P L, the top line, right. The byproduct. But if the byproduct's not good, I don't have a job. Right? But I care about the inputs. But what's so interesting is that as it starts to Move in the direction, right?

[John Gafford]

But it's true. I'm laughing because I was just. I don't know why this jumped in my head, but as you said that, all I could think of was, what is the saying that stormy seas make great sailors. I'd rather be an average sailor, but a good meteorologist so I can stay out of the stormy seas, Right?

[Evan Marks]

Yeah, it's true. But you know what happens, John, is that as we start to build, right? And now things are moving the right direction and my clients left, and I. And I have a client who's done doing really well. So we have a call after this. He knows what I'm about to say. I say, al, how we doing, man? We're good, right? Goes, yeah, we could have. He's been with me two years, three years. He goes, I know what you're about to say. I said, I have to say anything. You tell me. Time to recommit. Recommit like, zero, zero. Recommit like. Because you always hear like. And I think it was the la. I forgot what sports. We got to go back to the basics. We never lose sight of the basics, ever. Those are the tenants that got us here, right? We leverage off the foundation. So I know when we're running hard. We cannot forget to recommit. I'd rather husband John reset at the top than at the bottom.

[John Gafford]

Yeah.

[Evan Marks]

And what happens is you start to set up these stages, right? So we reset, we consolidate. We check, right? Everything's in order, right? Foundation, smooth. This. Let's expand. I call it stretching. And now we. Now we up the baseline. Always recommit. Recommit. 0, 0. Down, regulate. How we feeling?

[John Gafford]

I feel low.

[Evan Marks]

Well, let's get to zero, zero. Where we have to be. Let's take a walk, Ev, on the best you've ever seen. Oh, that's not a good place to make decisions. Down, regulate. Yeah, right. But give yourself credit along the way, because if you're Zeus and the greatest, then you're living in hell the next day, right? So I really want to be able to detach from these things but give you credit, because neurologically, it sticks in the brain, right? On a circuitry basis. But to operate at that place, like, where do you make best decisions?

[John Gafford]

Yeah, that's really interesting. Not high, not low, but right. Right at your midline.

[Evan Marks]

Zero, zero. Equilibrium.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, I haven't heard. That's. Hey, man, I don't hear a lot of stuff on here anymore that I haven't heard before. That's a new one. That's good. I like that.

[Evan Marks]

You know, when you think about decision making, right, we're in the. That's what I do for a living. Right? We're in the game of best decisions, not right decisions. Right. You know, best, only you know when they're right. Only time will tell you. So I want to make sure that John makes best decisions. If we do that consistently and consciously, we're gonna be all right. I don't know if every best decision is gonna be the right decision, but the more we're sitting at seat we're going to be damn. All right. So how do I make my people that are on my team, I call my team, my clients sit in a seat where they can make best decisions. That's all I do for a living.

[John Gafford]

I love it. Well, Evan, man, dude, if they want to find you more, if they want to get part have you coach them, how do they find you? Dude, where do they find you?

[Evan Marks]

So I have an incredible team behind me. So it's M1 Performance Group Calm. That's our website. It's Evan marks on LinkedIn. It's eMark72 on Instagram. We actually, if there are traders listening, young traders or retail or young professionals or just professionals. Coming May 1st, we have something called the M1 Trading. Excuse me, the N1 Mental Trading Academy coming out. You'll see it all over YouTube and all those other things, which is pretty exciting. And I did a TedX actually in Houston on January 10th that's gonna be out in about a week. So we're excited about that.

[John Gafford]

That's great. Yeah, I can't wait to see it. Well, brother, thank you so much for joining us, man. It was awesome to have you. That was a great chat. And dude, I appreciate all the value you brought today.

[Evan Marks]

John, I really appreciate you inviting me on this thing and it was really a pleasure meeting you.

[John Gafford]

Yeah, you too, buddy. I'll see. I'm sure I'll see you in Vegas at some point. When it was everybody comes to Vegas at some point. They always do.

[Evan Marks]

I spent a lot of time at Vegas in the 90s. Yeah. But I'll be back.

[John Gafford]

I always do. Well, man, if you listen to that today, Listen, if you should take anything away from that, I think today the biggest takeaway for me and as I walk out of this room, if you subscribe to my blog, you'll be getting this later today, which is talking about making good decisions and making sure that decisions you make, taking emotions out of them as much as you can by driving them to your baseline is something that I that's a concept I have not heard before, but one that I'll be living my life by from now on. We'll see you next week. What's up everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escaping the drift.com you can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.

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