← Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Jeff Iverson’s Story of Overcoming Addiction and Inspiring Others
01:00:23
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, it's John Gafford from the Escaping the Drift podcast. And big news. My new book, escaping the Drift, is coming out November 11th. You can pre order it right now at thejohngafford.com There are tons of bonuses, tons of giveaways. Get the book. If you are somebody that feels like you might be drifting along, this is for you. If you know somebody that feels like they might be drifting along, this is for you. Available everywhere, all bookstores, every everywhere, Amazon, Barnes and nobles, the whole nine yards. But pick your copy up right now at thejohngaffer.com and get a bunch of the awesome bonuses I've thrown out because I promise you, I put my heart and soul into this thing. I want it to help you change your life. Pick it up everywhere.
- [00:41]
B
Well, I started smoking and smoking different things around the age of 13, so, like, my. My partying years started early.
- [00:51]
A
And your parents had no idea this?
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B
No idea.
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A
Just clueless. Did your brothers know?
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B
No.
- [00:56]
A
No. We hang out with older kids. Yeah.
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B
Yes.
- [00:59]
A
Okay. And just kids you met in the neighborhood.
- [01:02]
B
Neighborhood kids. Yep.
- [01:04]
A
Okay, so when did it start to go really bad? And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, Escape the Drift. And it's time to start right now. Back again, back again for another episode of. Like it says in the opening, man, the podcast that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today, kids in the studio, I got a special treat. This is a dude who has overcome. I mean, more than I can even believe. Right? And if you look at your situation, you're thinking, man, I'm here. How am I going to ever get there? This is a story that is going to get you on the right track to helping you escape the Drift. Sitting in the studio today is the CEO of Crossroads. His name is Jeff Iverson. Jeff, welcome to the Pro. Welcome to the program.
- [02:05]
B
John, welcome.
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A
Good to have you, man. Good to have you, dude. When I heard your story, I was blown away. And I can't wait to get into it because so many people look at where they are in life and they just think, I can't get out of here. Like, their situation is so bleak or so grim or so dead ended that they just can't escape and get to the next level. They can't get out of where they are. They can't escape the drift.
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B
Right.
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A
But you screwed your life up worse than just about anybody that I've ever heard and have turned this. And have come out of the other side of this 20 years later. I mean, one of the most successful dudes around. So let's start, let's start with your growing up. You grew up here in Vegas, right?
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B
I was born and raised in Vegas.
- [02:48]
A
All right. Born and raised in Vegas. What was, what was that like? Mom, dad, together. What happened?
- [02:52]
B
Mom, dad, together. Nice, nice household. I grew up with four brothers. I, I, I can't blame, like, the course I took on any, any exterior factors other than I, I took the course.
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A
And so you said earlier, we were talking about it, you said growing up here in Vegas, you just couldn't wait to take advantage of what Vegas offered. So talk about that.
- [03:17]
B
So, you know, I mean, I grew up, like, with my parents taking us to Circus Circus and seeing the casinos and the, you know, the Strip, and, you know, I just. So many things were taboo. I grew up in the Mormon religion. You know, alcohol was taboo. Smoking's taboo. You know, gambling is taboo. Like, all these things that were off limits. There was just something stirring inside of me. Like, I just couldn't, I was a rebellious kid, and I just couldn't wait to, like, find out what was so wrong with all these things.
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A
So that's interesting, man, growing up Mormon, because a lot of people, if you're listening to this from somewhere else in the country, we have a huge Mormon population here in Las Vegas. There's a lot of Mormons that live here. That lifestyle, as a kid, you never bought into that. Were you always feeling rebellious to that, or is this something you grew into as, like, a teenager where you're always kind of like, man, I don't know about this.
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B
I was always rebellious to that. Always. Yeah.
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A
What about your brothers?
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B
My, My whole family is active. I, I would consider myself a very spiritual being, but not a very religious being.
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A
Yeah, I can, I can, I can, you know, yeah, I can agree with that.
- [04:21]
B
The, the road I took, you know, I was, I was very rebellious against, you know, the things I was being taught in religion, and I was rebellious against, like, law enforcement, and I just, I just never wanted to, like, conform. And I think, like, growing up and, and even as a dad now, if I looked at my sons making those kinds of choices, I would think, like, what's wrong with them? But, like, sometimes that's, like, what's right with them. Like, you know what I mean? Does that yeah.
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A
No. Well, it does, because it's about perspective.
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B
Yeah.
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A
What was the first thing that you did to kind of go outside your boundaries of what you shouldn't have been doing?
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B
Well, I started. I started using. Well, I started smoking and smoking different things around the age of 13. So, like, my. My partying years started early.
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A
And your parents had no idea this.
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B
No idea.
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A
Just clues. Did your brothers know?
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B
Yeah. No.
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A
No. Were you hanging out with older kids?
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B
Yes.
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A
Okay. And just kids you met in the neighborhood?
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B
Neighborhood kids? Yep.
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A
Okay. So when did it start to go really bad?
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B
I would say by, like, the beginning of my senior year. I had. I had escalated my experimenting to different things, including, like, you know, harder drugs, which. Which, you know, it just continued to spiral, you know, and. And for. For a while, for many years, I was able to hide it, and I was able to continue to, you know, hold a job and things like that. But by my early 20s, when. When I hit the. When I was, like, old enough to go to the casinos and gamble and go to the clubs and stuff, I really lost control.
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A
What were you doing?
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B
I started. Well, I. You know, somebody offered me meth once at. I don't know how long you've been here, but there was a club called Utopia.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know what I mean?
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A
Yeah.
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B
And if you were like. If you, like. If you like to party, you could. You could do this drug and you could party all weekend and still make it to work on Monday. And, like, that was, like, you know, that was. Sounded like a dream come true to me. You know what I mean? And so, like, you know, I. I slowly, over the years, just became, like, addicted to these substances and these activities. And I lost my drive. Yeah, I lost my drive.
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A
When did. When did it start to affect you at work?
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B
My mid-20s. I was unemployable at this. At the age of, like, 27, I became homeless.
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A
So what were you doing for money during that time?
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B
Well, I got in. I got involved in distributing the wrong things.
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A
Yep.
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B
And then I started manufacturing the wrong.
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A
Things, like, straight Breaking Bad style. You were.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Wow.
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B
And I. And I. The. Eventually the law caught up with me and I became a felon. But I. I'm very grateful for those experiences now because it was the criminal justice system that led me into my recovery journey.
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A
So did you try rehab ever before that, or was it just, like, you were just balls to the wall right up until you got caught?
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B
So I was. My first rehab was in. In 2000. My family was like, there's something wrong with you. Like, Know, they didn't know what it was. I would never admit it. You know, in this town back then, it was who you knew. So every job I ever got, I was kind of juiced into, you know. You know, my dad knew a lot of people and was always like, helping me out. But, but my, you know, my, my mid-20s, that stopped too.
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A
Like, word got around.
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B
Yeah.
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A
What. What were the charges you got arrested for?
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B
So my first criminal charges were manufacturing and distributing high level trafficking, methamphetamine.
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A
How much? So walk me through that bust. When they caught you, what happened?
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B
So I was actually at a friend's house showing off my. My most recent product, and his house got rated for firearms. And while. And I had. I had some stuff in my backpack that I had. I. I admitted to it being mine because otherwise my friend would have got in trouble.
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A
Yeah.
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B
They didn't find any firearms, but they found my backpack and what was in it. And so I went to jail. And then they impounded my car and searched my car and found the chemicals to make the math. So that's where the manufacturing charge came in.
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A
So you were literally just wrong place, wrong time. Like, they weren't raiding your house?
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B
No, no.
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A
Oh, man.
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B
And that, but that. So that was in 2001, and I didn't end up getting clean until 2006. So I spent between 2001 and 2006 fighting the system. I grew up with a dad who taught me that, like, if you can see it and you can believe it, you can achieve it. Right. And I was trying to pour this energy and that mindset into the wrong things. Does that make sense? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, Like, I, I was so engulfed in this lifestyle that I just was fighting really hard. Like, I was in and out of jail. I was in and out of rehabs, you know, off and on probation back then. I don't know if you remember, Goodman, Stein and Chevsnoff was the law firm that represents.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Steve Stein was my attorney.
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A
Okay.
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B
You know, and that was a gift to me. Like, I just, I had to Parents pay for that.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I had people around me that continued to enable me. Like, you know, and, and I. And I realize now it wasn't like, I think their intentions were okay, but really it was more about protecting their reputation.
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A
What did you. What did your parents say the first time you got arrested? Were they shocked? Because, like, they kind of maybe knew something was going on or they, they.
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B
No, by then they knew something was definitely up. And I think they were relieved.
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A
Okay. Because they're like, this might be the catalyst that gets this fixed.
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B
Yeah. Like, they had tried rehab. They paid for me to fly to California and go to re dad. Like, you know, by this time, like they knew there was a problem. I would never admit to any of it, but they were doing all that they could to, you know, try to help me, which I don't fault them for, but it's, you know, one of the lessons that I learned and one of the things I'm able to pass on is this tough love concept.
- [10:57]
A
That's what I was going to ask next is if you had to flip it where now you are the parent and your son did the same thing, what would you have done differently?
- [11:07]
B
Oh, drastic consequences.
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A
Just.
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B
I will always love my son, but I will not enable bad behavior.
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A
Yeah, you're just, you're on your own with that if you get caught.
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B
You know what I mean?
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A
Okay, so from the first time you get arrested in 2001, how many times you get arrested again until 2006 when you got clean?
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B
I mean, minor arrests, a few. But my next felony charge was in 2005. I did a nine month treatment stay.
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A
Okay.
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B
I got out, I was clean for a little while, but I started drinking again because I thought like, meth was the problem. And when I started drinking again, drinking led me back to cocaine and meth and. And then I got caught again for possession with intent to sell just because I, I like to. I always had corner sack blues. I needed like a big quantity. So the quantity I had on me was enough to get me with like an attempted possession with attempt to sell.
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A
So I said, now that's two. That's two felonies. Like that.
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B
That's two felonies. And that's the, that was the arrest that led me into the district court drug court program.
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A
And they sent you to rehab for nine months?
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B
No, my rehab stay was a couple years before that.
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A
Okay.
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B
The district court drug court program is a year long outpatient program with like a prison sentence hanging over your head.
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A
So I screw up, you're going to prison.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay.
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B
To be honest with you, like my last two years out there on the streets, I was tired. Yeah, I was ready for something different. Like, I just, I knew deep, deep down inside I was chasing the wrong things. I was just so engulfed in the lifestyle. I. I didn't know how to get out. And I was also 31, thinking, Damn, my ship has sailed.
- [12:52]
A
You know, did you see at that time, could you ever envision the other side of this at that time, like.
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B
Never, never, never, like, at the time, man, like, the most I could hope for is, like, getting clean and maybe getting a stable job because I didn't go to college.
- [13:10]
A
Yeah.
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B
Go to college. I barely graduated high school. I dropped out of high school at the beginning of the second semester. I finished my credits in adult ed, and because of my dad's position in the school district, they allowed me to, to walk with my class. But, I mean, I barely graduated high school. Right. So I didn't, I didn't go to college. I, I went right out of high school into the securities and insurance business. So I got my licenses. I was able to do that for a few years, you know, barely, you know, barely showing up. But.
- [13:46]
A
And this is when you were still doing. You were. Heavy drug use, doing this.
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B
Yeah. So I was the guy that, like, you know, I couldn't show up on Mondays, and then I was calling off on Fridays, and I was working at my dad's brokerage firm because when he retired, he got into the business and he, He, I think, had hoped he got into the business hoping I would be able to take it over.
- [14:06]
A
You were the, you were the son and was it bad bosses or whatever it is? Horrible bosses.
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B
Yes.
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A
You were the son.
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B
Like, you know, like, my dad just loved me to almost death, you know.
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A
Which, which you can love your kids to death. All happens all the time.
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B
Yeah. So I'm like, I'm 31. Like, I, I lost because of my convictions. I lost my ability to sell insurance or, or securities. I didn't, I didn't know what direction I was going to go in in life, and kind of like borderline hopeless, like, what's the point? Type of situation. I had no idea what I was going to do or how I was going to climb myself out of the hole I dug.
- [14:48]
A
So what was the change? What was the catalyst other than obviously the, the drug program you ran that was hanging prison over your head.
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B
So I, I managed to complete that program after a little bit of a jail stint. So I detoxed and I got clean in jail. And when I got out, I said, you know, I.
- [15:05]
A
That must have been miserable. They're not really worried about your comfort, I'm assuming. No, that was cold turkey, just shaking.
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B
On the floor, cold turkey. It was not a great experience. And, and I'll. I'll be honest. Like, let's rewind a few years. Like, I was burned really bad in a meth lab fire, so I spent six weeks in the UMC burn unit. That, that, that Wasn't enough.
- [15:31]
A
That wasn't enough.
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B
God, it was a time I. I was an IV drug user, so there was a time I went into septic shock. I was in ICU for almost a week, almost died. Like, that wasn't enough to. To stop me. So there's, like, not these, like.
- [15:49]
A
Keep going. I don't know what that is.
- [15:50]
B
That's my phone.
- [15:51]
A
It's all right. Keep going. See, we keep. We keep it real here on the podcast.
- [15:54]
B
Keep it real. Shut up.
- [15:56]
A
That's all right.
- [15:57]
B
I. There. There was several times where I, like, I even almost lost my life, and that wasn't enough to wake me.
- [16:04]
A
And your parents saved you every time, didn't they?
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B
The. The hospitals did.
- [16:07]
A
Yeah.
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B
You know what I mean? And. And. But. But the. The. I think the. The important point to make with that is, you know, substance use can really get its claws into you to where not. Not even death is, like, enough to scare you into getting clean. And I never would have imagined being grateful for those experiences, but they really helped shape and define who I am today and how I think today and my perspective today.
- [16:36]
A
Yeah, I know, like, you watch the show Intervention, and. Which is why, to this day, I don't care how bad the surgery is. I won't take oxycontin. I'm just like, no, I'm not. I am not taking pain medicine. I will suffer through whatever it is. Because, dude, that's how those stories. Those stories always start like that. It's like, oh, I hurt my back. And then next thing you know, you're completely strung out. Oh, my God. These are problems I don't need in my life. But you're always rooting for these people to. To get better. And it's always so heartbreaking at the end of that show when. When it says, oh, no, they relapsed and they're gone. They didn't do this, man. That. That struggle is. Is something that so many people fight with. But, you know, you coming out of the other side of it, when did you start to see the light? Obviously, when you're like, okay, I might be able to pull up something together.
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B
Here, so I get out of jail. I went through some very humbling experiences at that point. My family did cut me off, and I got out of jail, and I really was out of options, and so I had to rely on the community safety net for a little bit of support initially, which was. I don't want to say humiliating, but it was humbling. So I had to go down to the county and get A voucher and, and get rental assistance so I could put a roof over my head. And I had to enroll in the food stamp program so I could buy some food. But what, what had happened is I was in, in, in jail and growing up, you know, knowing that there, well, believing that there is a God, you know, whether I don't know what that looks like.
- [18:10]
A
Right.
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B
And I don't push that on people and it doesn't matter. But I remember being in jail and saying a prayer like, God, if you are real, you know, please, please help guide me when I get out of here because I can't continue to live the way I was living. And I remember like I got out of jail and I, I got a place to stay and I remember like my first day out of jail not using, like going to bed thinking, wow, I was like a free man today and I didn't go to the plug.
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A
Well, you know that I think that's so interesting because I would think that like you said, it was, it was soul crushing a little bit. And it was, it was, it was brought on a lot of humility to you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
To have to do those things. I would think that those type of thoughts and those type of feelings are what would drive people right back to that same problem again.
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B
So what they typically will.
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A
Yeah. So what was it about you in that moment that when you're feeling probably pretty down on yourself because of the assistance that you were having to get and having to ask people for help.
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B
Yeah. It wasn't fun.
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A
Yeah. So what was it about what, what was going on in your head that made you say, hey, this is, I'm not doing it this time?
- [19:23]
B
I think for the first in my time in my life, like I made a commitment and kept it. I made a commitment to myself and I kept it.
- [19:31]
A
I think, you know, people don't realize, it's so funny you say that because people don't realize how important it is to make, to keep promises to yourself.
- [19:39]
B
Right.
- [19:39]
A
It's more important to keep promises to yourself than it is to keep them to anybody else because that's where self confidence comes from. So every day when you kept keeping that promise, your self confidence grows a little bit more. Hope gets a little bigger, I'm guessing.
- [19:51]
B
So one day turned into a week, a week turned into a month. And I remember taking, you know, in the recovery program I was in, I remember taking a 30 day chip thinking, Dang, I didn't get loaded for 30 days in a row. And that had not happened since I was 13 13. And then I. You know, so they encourage you to find a sponsor or a mentor in this program and somebody that can help guide you. And for the first time in my life, I was willing to start. Start taking suggestions from somebody who had been through somewhat similar circumstances and. And made it out. And that's where it started for me.
- [20:35]
A
Who is that person?
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B
His name was Jerry Tiffey.
- [20:38]
A
Still talk to him today?
- [20:40]
B
Off and on, here and there occasionally. Yeah. He was a singer on the Strip. I was in treatment with his son. That's how I knew him. And I asked him, hey, will you help me? He did, and he did.
- [20:53]
A
So when did your financial life start to turn around a little bit? When did your circumstances start to improve?
- [20:59]
B
So, let's see. I was 32. I got a job with the Bell family relatively quickly because I'm a. I'm a fairly smart guy, and I'm a fairly. Fairly driven guy. And when I started channeling that energy into something positive, I started seeing good results.
- [21:20]
A
What was that interview like, and how did you get him to take a chance on you with Your record?
- [21:24]
B
So, J.J. bell, and I love J.J. bell dearly. He was. You know, we all. Well, most of us have that one guy or person in our life that was willing to take a chance on us, and that was J.J. bell.
- [21:36]
A
What was the conversation like when you first sat down?
- [21:39]
B
In order to get a job there, you had to bring your scope in, which is like your criminal record printed on paper. And he looked at it, and he was flipping the pages like, we don't hire felons here.
- [21:55]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I was only 90 days sober, and I looked at him and I said, I know on paper I look like a dirt bag, and I know I've made a lot of wrong choices in life, but I said, I know my words might mean nothing to you, but if you just give me a chance, I promise you I will be the best employee you've ever had. Right out of jail. I got a job at a convenience store across from the Boulevard Mall as a cashier, making 7.25 an hour. Like, that's. That was humbling.
- [22:33]
A
Yeah.
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B
You know what I mean? So I. I interview with JJ Bell. I become a limousine driver at Presidential Limousine. My first few months there, I saw some things, if I owned the company, that I would do differently. So I asked him for a meeting, and he took me to lunch, and I shared some ideas with him. And he said, you know what? In all of the years I've been in this business, I've never had Somebody come to me and just tell me the truth about what's going on out there on the streets, what they're observing in the office. And he asked me if I would be willing to come work with him in the office to turn the company around. And people in my life, including my mentor, thought I was crazy because I was leaving a job where I was making pretty good cash tips to go in and, you know, work in the office, you know, and I. I. For some reason, I did it.
- [23:31]
A
What do you think it was?
- [23:35]
B
I held him in such high regard that I knew because he was willing to give me an opportunity, that I held him in such high regard that I couldn't say no. It couldn't.
- [23:50]
A
Do you think that maybe the idea of getting the job in the office and not being a dry. Not being driver, even though it was less money, was maybe you looked at it like a stepping stone to get your guilt? You're going up a ladder now. You're not just going sideways anymore.
- [24:05]
B
It's. It's the concept of, like, sometimes in life, you have to take a step back, to take steps forward, a couple steps forward.
- [24:12]
A
Because I know, like, me in life, right. I've always been. I'm very politically motivated, so I'm always driven to, like, I want to climb. I don't care what the ladder is. I want to climb. Sure.
- [24:20]
B
Yeah.
- [24:20]
A
You know, if we're gonna. If we're gonna rush a fraternity, I want to be the pledge class president. If we're gonna do that, like, I always want to be the guy out front. So it's. I've always been that way. I don't know why there's something that's broken and me that makes me do that, but I. I could totally see me doing the same thing. Like, okay, I'm gonna take a pay cut, but I got a business card now, and I'm moving up. Yeah, yeah.
- [24:40]
B
And a salary.
- [24:40]
A
And a salary. I'm moving up.
- [24:42]
B
So I think I brought some things to his attention. He didn't realize, and I didn't know it at the time, but he was the VP of Whittlesey Bell Companies, which, you know, they have several cab companies.
- [24:54]
A
Yeah. Massive transportation company.
- [24:55]
B
Massive transportation company. And I just. I didn't. I didn't know what I was doing, but I just. I. I. I took his advice and. And it paid off, and I worked side by side with him to clean up some things in the office. Sometimes you got a clean house. There was a lot of rotten eggs that needed to be, you know, Thrown out, and we work side by side. And three months after that, he made me the general manager of the company.
- [25:21]
A
So here's a question. What was that transition like? Because there's. There's a lot of times in life when you're. You're one of the gang, if you will. Like you when you were a driver, and then a month later, you're the guy firing your buddies or the people that are perceived as your buddies.
- [25:34]
B
There was a lot of people that did not like the fact that all of a sudden, this new kid was the boss.
- [25:39]
A
Yeah. So how do you. Okay, so how do you talk about that?
- [25:41]
B
That's where I learned not to give a. About being liked.
- [25:45]
A
Yeah. I always say that if you want to. What is it? If you want to be liked, sell ice cream.
- [25:49]
B
I love that quote.
- [25:51]
A
Yeah.
- [25:51]
B
That's where I learned to not care if I was liked. You know what I mean?
- [25:57]
A
Yeah. There's a difference between liked and respected. There's a difference.
- [26:00]
B
I was respected, but I wasn't liked.
- [26:01]
A
Yeah.
- [26:02]
B
And I wasn't liked because there was a lot of people there who had been there maybe for years that thought that they should be in that role.
- [26:08]
A
Yeah.
- [26:10]
B
None of them ever went to JJ and suggested any changes. None of them ever gave a shit about the company as a whole. It was all about, at the end of the day, what was best for them.
- [26:19]
A
Yeah.
- [26:20]
B
You know what I mean? And I didn't. I didn't realize it at the time. I didn't know that that lunch with him was going to change my life. And as a result of that, him and I working side by side, eventually he stepped away and, like, gave me full reign to. To run the company. And, you know, to summarize things, I think when I started there, there was a fleet of, like. Like 30 cars, maybe 40 or five drivers, and they were spending a lot of money on print ads. And so together, I just brought some, like, fresh ideas, like, let's stop spending all this money on print ads. Get online, and let's get online. And. And so together. It was, like, fun. It was like. And it was new and, like, I had this entrepreneurial drive in me my whole life, and I, you know, somebody had actually given me the ability to make decisions and, you know, relatively quickly. And this was in 2007. So this was right before, like, the 2008, 2009 crash. Crash. And while some companies were going out of business, we were buying cars and hiring, you know, so like, two months into my journey at. As the gm, there not only had they put me on a profit sharing plan, but we had grown the company to, like, I don't know, maybe like 150 cars in the fleet, a couple hundred drivers.
- [27:36]
A
Yeah.
- [27:36]
B
And I just was hiring and firing and you were.
- [27:39]
A
And you were profit sharing in this to me.
- [27:40]
B
Yeah, to me, it was a simple math equation.
- [27:44]
A
So I'm guessing inside of. Inside of probably eight months, you went from driver and tips to six figures is what I'm guessing. Very quickly, for the first time in my life, the first time ever. At what point did you recon? Because obviously now you're doing pretty well. What point did you reconnect with your family?
- [27:59]
B
I reconnected with my parents relatively quickly. My mom was always my champion. My mom never lost, like, her love for me. It took my dad a while, took my brothers a while to be.
- [28:12]
A
What was that process like with your dad?
- [28:15]
B
My dad was just very kind of cold. He didn't believe it. Like, I mean, I had. I really put them through some. Yeah, you know, I'll just give you, like, an example. Like, the week. The week that I was charged with manufacturing was the dedication of a school that was named after him.
- [28:34]
A
Yeah, that's not good. Yeah, that's not good.
- [28:36]
B
You know, so there's like an ad in the paper, you know, this big article about Mervi Verson Elementary School, you know, grand opening. They, you know, they didn't name the.
- [28:46]
A
Library and turn over two more pages and whoops.
- [28:48]
B
And. And, you know, literally the day after that article came out, because I was in the hospital when I got burned, the police raided their house because that was the address on my license. So, like, I was, like, constantly, like, putting them in these situations. Like, my dad had just had enough and my brothers had had enough too. So it took me a while to rebuild those relationships. But I wasn't really concerned about that either. I was. I was concerned about getting my life together. And once I got a little taste of what it was like to, like, be sober and have a little bit of discretionary income, I wanted more and I, you know, so set.
- [29:29]
A
Well, that. That's interesting, though. So you say you weren't concerned with those relationships, but just through working on you, those relationships came back.
- [29:36]
B
Well, I was. It was always in the back of my mind, like, I felt. I. I felt a lot of guilt and shame, but I knew, like, because of the people I was using as my mentors, that, like, I couldn't buy into that. Like, if I sat in that.
- [29:49]
A
You had to compartmentalize it and put.
- [29:50]
B
It away If I sat in that too long and tried too hard to convince them through my words that, like, I was. I was really serious about making this life change, like, it was just gonna backfire. So rather than do that, I just, you know, I knew I needed to just make a living amends and, you know, and let the results of the actions in my life start to show people that I was serious about this change of what you were doing.
- [30:17]
A
All right, so how long at the limousine place and then what was Left? You spent 10 years there.
- [30:23]
B
Spent a little over 12 years there. But. But my relationship with JJ Bell grew into an amazing friendship. To this day, we're still friends. They ended up selling, you know, their portfolio of companies. But because of the relationship I had with jj, it opened up doors for me. Like, I would go to him with ideas, and he was very supportive. So I opened the freedom House in 2010, which is 150 bed facility where we were providing housing. And eventually we became the provider of treatment services for the court that I got clean in. And I did that because JJ Bell gave. The company was doing really well, and JJ allowed me the freedom to kind of work on multiple projects at once. And he.
- [31:13]
A
So you started this while you were still with doing this, where you were still. Okay, yes. So how do you. Okay, so talk to me about opening 150 bed facility.
- [31:21]
B
That's scary.
- [31:22]
A
That's a lot. So where do you. Where did you raise the capital? How did you. How did you pull this together?
- [31:27]
B
So, interestingly enough, JJ had a friend that was a big real estate investor. His name was John Blinsky. And John is as much of an angel to me as JJ And John had these buildings over off of Twain in Paradise. And I had this idea, and we all sat down in a room and I said, here's my idea. Let's take these two buildings on Palos Verdes and turn them into a transitional living center for people just like. Like that are in the situation I was in a few years ago, and I got their blessing. You know, proximity is power, right? Yeah, proximity is power. Like, I. I can't. I can take the credit for the idea and being the visionary, you know what I mean? And. But I didn't. I. I lifted Freedom House off the ground with very little capital.
- [32:21]
A
Just converted it straight up at like it was. And. And there you go.
- [32:24]
B
Well, Balinsky at the time, who also I would consider a very spiritual person, saw the transformation I had went through and just really, you know, believed that I could pull this off. Even though you know, Chris G. At the time it was the county commissioner and the sheriff and everyone thought I was crazy for doing what I did there. I convinced them all to let it, like let it, let's make it happen. I mean I had to do it through the special use permit process. I had to convince a lot of people it was a good idea, like Metro.
- [32:57]
A
Well, you've also got to go to the city and get their blessing because they're technically the ones that are going to fund it once these people start coming through. Correct.
- [33:04]
B
I, I didn't know who was going to fund it.
- [33:07]
A
Well, who pays for the people to be, to be in these beds?
- [33:09]
B
They do.
- [33:11]
A
They individually. That's what, that's. They pay.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah. So we charge a program fee.
- [33:14]
A
Oh, I got it.
- [33:15]
B
And my, and, and here, the blessing in disguise with that was we put so many people there and like half of them could pay, half of them couldn't. My first two years I lost over $300,000. And unluckily I had like at the time he was my landlord, but I had a landlord that was willing to work with me. So here's here, here's the catch.
- [33:39]
A
Yeah.
- [33:40]
B
That three hundred thousand dollar loss is what caused me to develop a case for support and go to some local foundations and say, here's the people we're trying to help. Here's the amount that can't have no resources.
- [33:54]
A
We get some scholarships or something.
- [33:56]
B
This is what allowed me the proof. And we had collected enough data, you know, like, you know, I had data to just like taking one drug addicted criminal off the streets. What is the impact to the community safety net for that? And for it's tens of tens and tens of thousands of dollars a year. So that's what we, you know, we, we started collecting data and that's what helped me to get the support of some of the local foundations to create a scholarship fund. So we give away about 400,000 in scholarships a year now.
- [34:30]
A
Wow.
- [34:31]
B
For people that don't have any resources, that need, need to get off the street and need help.
- [34:35]
A
Yeah, because that's what I mean, that must have been an impossible situation for you in those first couple of years because you have people that aren't paying. You're upside down and you, all you see is your face and all of these people and you just don't have it in you to turn them out. Even though the business model says you got to turn them out.
- [34:52]
B
That's right.
- [34:52]
A
You couldn't do it.
- [34:53]
B
The pro forma looked great.
- [34:55]
A
Yeah. If Everybody pays.
- [34:57]
B
It looks, you know what I mean? Yeah, the pro forma looked great and that's, you know, that's why I think we were able to get our start. And then like once I opened and got licensed, because I went through the whole process, I got, I got county business licenses, city business licenses. We took these two old apartment, you know, garden style buildings and I went through special use permit process. I got them licensed through the Department of Health Care Quality and compliance as licensed halfway houses. Like I did it right and that was scary. Like I had never done that.
- [35:33]
A
You know the interesting thing about, about this is, is, and look, you're not a church, nobody expects you to do this. You're not a non profit. Freedom House is, Freedom House is a.
- [35:43]
B
Non profit, is a nonprofit organization. But it runs just like a business.
- [35:46]
A
It runs just like a business. So there's a bottom line, you're turning obviously a great profit on this, which. There's nothing wrong with that now. Yes, now there's nothing wrong with saving lives and making money.
- [35:55]
B
No, absolutely.
- [35:56]
A
Otherwise hospitals wouldn't exist.
- [35:57]
B
I don't feel bad about that at all.
- [35:59]
A
No, you shouldn't. So you got Freedom House running. You got 150 beds there and then what, what does that grow to? Where are you now?
- [36:08]
B
Freedom House is the same. We did open a third location for women so it grew a little bit, but it's just, it's a well oiled machine now.
- [36:16]
A
And how many people are you saving a year?
- [36:19]
B
At the Freedom House we serve probably close to 700 unique individuals a year.
- [36:27]
A
So you're talking about tens of thousands, let's just call it $10,000 worth of impact on the community by taking like you said, a drug addicted felon off the street. So with 700 a year talking about $7 million worth easily of improvement to.
- [36:39]
B
The community because we now we're contracted with the county, what, what they refer to as a jail depopulation program. So like Freedom House is primarily dedicated towards taking people who are entangled in the criminal justice system and giving them a shot at housing and treatment in exchange for like a lesser sentence or something like that.
- [37:00]
A
So now that you have this, I mean you got this obviously going incredibly profitable. Where has that opened up you to be entrepreneurial in other areas.
- [37:08]
B
So in 2015 I saw some other holes in the community safety net, whenever, when, when it comes to this population. And I put together a plan for Crossroads of Southern Nevada which is a 400 bed program. Now it is a for profit program and we, you know, are Sustained through billing insurance for the services. Because in between, in between opening Freedom House and, and starting to develop Crossroads, Obamacare was rolled out and there was a huge segment of the population that, you know, now had access to Medicaid coverage who didn't previously.
- [37:45]
A
Are the changes now going to affect you?
- [37:47]
B
No, no, no. I think the changes that they're talking about in Medicaid reform now have to do with people that are milking the system. Yeah, you know, people that should be working, could be working. You know, my heart has really been in working with the indigent homeless population. So, you know, Crossroads, we have a 75 bed detox clinic, a full medical clinic, a very robust outpatient clinic. We have a housing center downtown where we house 160 people in our outpatient program. We have the second floor of our main building, which is right across the street from UMC. We have an 80 bed residential treatment program. But the idea for Crossroads was at the time when Medicaid started covering all these folks, people started to access the ERs who didn't really need medical care. They needed substance use and mental health services. And so I would, I would be in these meetings where they were constantly Talking about the ERs being overwhelmed and people sitting in the hallways on gurneys. And so I was like, well, let's create a place where the police and paramedics can take people who need straight, just mental health. Can I just shut that off?
- [38:57]
A
Yeah, go ahead, feel free. Do your thing. No, you're good. Busy man, don't worry about it. So like Joe Rogan has people get up and go to the bathroom. We're fine.
- [39:10]
B
So, so the idea was, hey, let's create a place where.
- [39:13]
A
Pull this closer though.
- [39:15]
B
Like, let's create a place where, because I have two brothers that were firefighters, you know, and they would constantly talk about these frequent flyers, they refer to him as, you know, who go from the street, you know, they call the ambulance, they come up with these symptoms so that they have to go to the air emergency room. And like, so when you do the math, the county's paying like on average, you know, six or seven hundred a night for somebody to sit in emergency room bed when they. I'm sorry, $1,500 a night.
- [39:49]
A
I was going to say, last time I went to the emergency room, it was not $600. It was not $1500 either.
- [39:54]
B
So it's, it's $600 a night at Crossroads versus 1500 a night, you know, in an emergency room. And that's if they're not complaining of chest pains or heart this or that, you know, and don't need an mri, you know. You know, but the people on the streets are very crafty. They know exactly what they need to say, you know, in their stay and they're really just there to get off of the street for a few days, get some food in them and med seek.
- [40:19]
A
Yeah.
- [40:19]
B
You know, and then they're back to their original thing. So the, that's what we did. We, we took this building. It's a 50,000 square foot facility. We got it licensed as a medical clinic, detox center, rehab clinic. And I got the blessing from the county and the county fire department and Metro for it to become a drop off site where police and, you know, first responders could drop people off that they knew needed mental health and substance use services rather than eat the ER at umc.
- [40:54]
A
So I mean, obviously, dude, you become incredibly financially successful because of this. Do you think that if it wasn't so in line with a mission that you, you lived through yourself, you would have done the same in any other field?
- [41:07]
B
I don't think so. I think I had to go through what I went through to find my purpose, my passion, you know what I mean? And, and it took me a while to like feel okay about making money off of helping the population. But you know, I, I worked, I worked through that mentally because in the, in the recovery program, it's all, you know, it's an altruistic movement. Right. But not everyone can just go to a 12 step recovery group and get their life together.
- [41:34]
A
But I don't think it should be. I was, you know, because my next question was going to be, are you still actively involved? Not necessarily day to day, but I think you're probably the best example of if I can do this. You can do this. And seeing that financial success you have and hearing your story and knowing that you were hopeless and, you know, didn't know what you were going to do. I mean, I think you're the, you're the, you're the benchmark of what people are trying to get to. So are you, how heavily involved are you in those meetings, in those people, in that motivation with people? Because it's got to be hard. There's 700 of them. You can't take on 700 mentees that you cannot do.
- [42:12]
B
No, no, but, but I do spend a good percentage of my time talking to people who've been willing to come in about the results and the outcome that they can have in their life. And I Spend a lot of time and I have like a social media platform where I try to send this message to. So obviously yes, I, I don't spend a lot of individual time with people but, but my example and then the ripple effect of the people that I've been able to help. A lot of my non clinical and non medical staff are people who have come through our program.
- [42:50]
A
That's what I was going to want to bring back. That's what I was gonna ask.
- [42:52]
B
So, so I've created, you know, both free. You know, Crossroads is a, is an eight figure annual.
- [43:02]
A
Oh yeah. It's a ginormous business.
- [43:04]
B
Freedom House is a high seven.
- [43:06]
A
Yeah.
- [43:06]
B
Figure. You know what I mean? Budget. So I'm managing a couple companies, you know, with, with relatively healthy budgets.
- [43:16]
A
Oh sure.
- [43:16]
B
You know what I mean? And then I'm not like an operator though. I'm a visionary. I like to design and create and then like turn it over to people and let them run with their ideas. It's, you know what I mean? It's my philosophies. So I'm the CEO, but like I have great people and all. Most of my executive teams are people who are just like me that have the life experience.
- [43:40]
A
Yeah.
- [43:41]
B
So in between those two, we start a program called Shine a Light, which is an outreach program that we started at the Freedom House, you know, reaching out to the homeless, primarily the ones that are living in the tunnels underneath Vegas and offering them a way out.
- [44:01]
A
Oh, that's right. I forgot you do that. So I forgot about the tunnels.
- [44:06]
B
About five years ago we, we broke it off and it became its own non profit foundation. And now it's the Shine Alight foundation. And it's also, you know, and now a seven figure operation.
- [44:19]
A
And you take people down there to show them what's going on.
- [44:21]
B
We do and we've, we've really got a lot of, we've really got a, a lot of attention and support from the community. The community, the local community, you know, a lot of the family foundations. But we're also contracted with the city of Las Vegas, North Las Vegas, Clark county to do case management. Because the, it's the people from the streets who understand the problem better than anyone. Right?
- [44:43]
A
Yeah, yeah. For those. Because again we have people listen all over the country and all over the world. I don't think you necessarily understand what he's talking about. I'm gonna explain it to you. So here in Las Vegas, obviously It's very hot, 119 degrees sometimes. And we have tunnels which are waterway systems they're wastewater systems. Like, as it rains heavily here. Because flood drains. Yeah. Because in the desert, the ground is incredibly hard and it doesn't absorb water. So the water just runs over the ground here. And especially in areas like the strip, they have to route the water away from the buildings. You probably seen videos of outside. What is it? Harrows. That looks like a. It just turns into a. Rapids behind here is the link. Right by the link. Always just looks crazy when it rains. People like, oh my God, the town's flooding. Not really. It's just the wastewater running in that one place. But those tunnels are occupied by estimate. How many people?
- [45:31]
B
2,000.
- [45:32]
A
2,000 people live under the city in these tunnels. It's really crazy. And when it rains like that, they just get washed away. Right. Everything. And I'm not talking about. They're down there sitting around, you know, some sticks making a fire. I mean, these people build pretty elaborate, like, things out of whatever they can find. It's like a shanty town. And they build these little houses down there.
- [46:00]
B
They do.
- [46:01]
A
And. And that just gets washed away every time it rains.
- [46:04]
B
Yeah, yeah. And I've seen some of them try to get creative and. And stack like pallets.
- [46:11]
A
Yeah.
- [46:12]
B
And try to like, you know, build things off of the ground. None of it works. But there's a huge population of people living under the tunnels, and they're. They're incredible people. And I actually do still go down into the tunnels and I get to spend time talking to them and I listen to their stories and like, you know, that's where I would have been.
- [46:31]
A
Let me ask you a. Because I'm always curious about this. Of the people that are living down there, obviously there's some problems. Right. There's some problems. These folks. There's a mental health issue, there's a substance abuse issue, and then there's a gambling issue. I'm guessing.
- [46:46]
B
Yes.
- [46:46]
A
So which one of the three is the largest contributor to the folks down there?
- [46:50]
B
I would say substance use.
- [46:52]
A
Okay.
- [46:52]
B
Which leads people to mental illness.
- [46:54]
A
Okay.
- [46:55]
B
You know, I would say, like, I, you know, I'm going to go against county's data. The county says about 10% of our homeless population has a substance use issue. And I'm going to say it's more like 90.
- [47:08]
A
Yeah, I guess. What else are you gonna do? Well, I mean, little. Seriously, what do you do?
- [47:14]
B
You can't be homeless and on drugs and not develop some form of diagnosable health.
- [47:19]
A
Yeah.
- [47:20]
B
Mental health issue. Right. So.
- [47:21]
A
Yeah.
- [47:22]
B
So you have to treat them both and you have to treat them separately.
- [47:25]
A
How many people have you guys been able to manage to save out of the tunnels at this point?
- [47:29]
B
So last year the Shine Light foundation got a little over 500 people out of the tunnels into programming and we do an 18 month program. So I, I don't believe in a 30 day spin dry treatment model. Yeah, you know what I mean?
- [47:47]
A
Takes a minute to fix.
- [47:48]
B
You need a higher level.
- [47:49]
A
It took a minute to get in there, it's going to take a minute to get out.
- [47:51]
B
You know what I mean? You need a higher level of care to begin with. So you know we, a lot they go from detox into maybe like a lower level of care of treatment. But we case manage them and this is what's drawn the attention from a lot of the municipalities is the way we case manage folks and the way we take care of them so they don't slip through the cracks. There's a lot of components and, and providers in the safety net who provide one piece of the puzzle like outpatient counseling or you know, they do, you.
- [48:23]
A
Know, but you're completely vertical, you're completely vertically integrated in the space.
- [48:27]
B
We do and we, and we connect them not only with services we're able to provide but with other community partners. So it's the continuity case management program that Paul and Rob and the other folks that run the day to day operation of Shine A Light have come up with that make us a little bit different than most. And you know, we, we, we believe in a harm reduction model would, but also because of our own experiences, don't agree with enabling people. So like if you want help and you're serious about getting help, you're gon gonna, you're gonna do this, this and this versus.
- [49:09]
A
Okay, that's a good question. How do you know?
- [49:12]
B
How do we know?
- [49:13]
A
Well, when you go to somebody and you're like, I mean obviously you're in the tunnels, you're like we want to help you. At what point do, do you know they really want help when they're just.
- [49:21]
B
Well we explain what they're, what the process is and they either agree or they don't.
- [49:25]
A
Oh, they'll say I'm ready to go.
- [49:26]
B
Or I'm not, you know and we develop a relationship. We have, we have a team of about 60 volunteers every Saturday morning that go into the tunnels and, and talk to people and you know, we, we take them supplies, the bare minimum, you know, water bottles and some, we have a lot of people that make sandwiches and we take them the bare minimum. But that, those the things that we're giving them, we're not, we're not enabling them to continue to be homeless. Now we're building a relationship of trust and a lot of it takes about 12 interactions for them to begin to build trust. And then we start talking to them about the programs that we can help them get access to. And you know, we, we can now have conversations and rebut things that, or excuses that they have. Well, I don't have id, I don't have my birth certificate. We can help you with all of that.
- [50:19]
A
Doesn't matter.
- [50:19]
B
You know what I mean? If you agree. You know what I mean?
- [50:22]
A
If somebody really wants help, there's, there is no excuse. If they're there and you're there, you can get them sorted out and it.
- [50:28]
B
Doesn'T matter if they stay or not. You know, we don't, I don't have the liberty to decide, you know, if this person's really serious or not. If they say, hey, I want to get out of here and I want to get help, we take them.
- [50:40]
A
Well, I'm guessing because you guys are, are being used as a case study for the quality of care you're giving, obviously there's a fallout rate. Obviously there's everything. There's, there's. Sure.
- [50:50]
B
I was going to say about, about. So almost 300 people that we got out last year are still engaged with us in case management.
- [50:57]
A
That's, that's, I'm guessing that's amazing compared to the industry standard with what.
- [51:01]
B
That is amazing. So there's a difference between an output and an outcome. Right?
- [51:05]
A
Okay.
- [51:08]
B
Like I'll give you an example. The homeless shelters, their success is gauged on how many beds they have filled every night. And their funding relies on that. Right. What motivation, what incentive do they have to help these people not be homeless?
- [51:27]
A
Because they need them to come in every night in their beds.
- [51:29]
B
They need people to be homeless, to fill the beds, to continue to get the funding that they're getting. They don't really have an incentive to help these people change their life. There's some non profit treatment centers who may have a 30 or a 90 day treatment program and they're, they will tout 85, 90% success rates and that success rate is, is an outcome of 36, 90 days. You know what I mean? The amount of people, I'm sorry, output. That's an output.
- [52:00]
A
Yeah.
- [52:00]
B
What they get, how many people came in and how many people completed. Yeah, but, but the real work starts when they complete. So we're for, we're Focused on our out comes, not our outputs, not how many people came in and completed treatment, how many people 18 months later, we've really impacted their life. Are they permanently housed? Yeah, you know, are they employed?
- [52:22]
A
You know, are they on their way to being productive citizens?
- [52:24]
B
Exactly, exactly.
- [52:26]
A
Dude, man. If they want to find you, how do they find you?
- [52:30]
B
I'm on Instagram at Jeff Iverson. It's really easy. Are we done with our time?
- [52:34]
A
I think we are.
- [52:35]
B
We didn't even get into my solar business.
- [52:36]
A
Let's talk about solar. We can talk, man. Let's talk about solar. Go ahead. I'll make it longer. I don't care. Go ahead.
- [52:41]
B
Six years ago I got into solar. I had no idea what I was doing. And we did 150.
- [52:46]
A
Okay, that's not fair because I asked you if there's something you want to land on. You didn't say you want to land.
- [52:50]
B
We did. Well, well, anyone can go to my Instagram page and see like, we're going longer.
- [52:55]
A
Go ahead, talk about.
- [52:55]
B
But I, I'm pretty proud of the fact that I knew nothing about solar except one day a guy knocks on my door, wants to talk to me about solar. I tell him to, you know, take a hike. And about the sixth guy that came by, I, I, I, I finally listened to the pitch. And this guy, because of my history in financial services, this guy showed me a comparison, a side by side, like, okay, if you stay with Nevada Energy versus buying a power plant and putting it on it on your roof, this is how much you would save over, you know, 20 years. And I was like, well, what? That caught my eye. And then question six. What? You know, NV Energy has to get 60 or 50 of the energy it sells from renewable sources by 2030. And who's paying for them to build solar farms? We are. Yeah, that caught my attention. So everything I've done over the years has been purpose driven and I left presidential limousine to get into the solar business. And I'm glad that I did. But anyway, I just want to end with, I took all of those years of experience and joined forces with a couple people and we did, we did close to 150 million in business in our first three years in solar.
- [54:09]
A
Unbelievable.
- [54:10]
B
And, and, and I'm still in the solar business, which is getting harder because.
- [54:16]
A
The credits are going away.
- [54:16]
B
It's getting harder, but it's just, you know, you have to be able to adapt to change.
- [54:20]
A
Yeah.
- [54:21]
B
You know what I mean? And, and be willing to, to just be able to pivot when you need to. To be successful. And this is where the things I've learned over the years, you know, with. When it comes to mindset, you know, I can either sit in my shit and feel sorry for myself and, like, go against the grain, or, like, I can pivot and figure out a solution to the challenge in front of me. You know, Those are the things that I learned, dude.
- [54:45]
A
You know, number one, don't ever apologize for making money, for doing something you love and help.
- [54:49]
B
Exactly.
- [54:50]
A
I think you should do it. But if you're listening to this and you're at a place where, man, you're at a crossroads, you don't know what you can do. Here's a dude that literally was in a halfway house eating government cheese, working for $7.25, the convenience store, only job he could get. And not that much time has passed between then and now that you've owned a company that did 150 million in solar, you've got 8 figure annual revenue from one of your places. 7 high 7 figure annual revenue for another one. That's amazing, dude. It's amazing what you've been able to accomplish.
- [55:20]
B
I want to. I know, I know. We're out of town. I want to say, like, mindset is everything. And I was a convicted felon doing all of that.
- [55:28]
A
Well, one more thing because. One more thing before we go. Because you're no longer convicted felon. We didn't talk about that.
- [55:34]
B
I am no longer a convicted felon.
- [55:36]
A
How did that go down?
- [55:37]
B
A couple years ago, a group got together and said, this guy deserves some recognition for what he's. What he's done. And over the years, I've developed close relationships with who. Who are people who are now in the Supreme Court.
- [55:52]
A
Who.
- [55:53]
B
One of them is now our governor. One of them now is our attorney general. And, And. And I don't get political at all, but all these people have known me for years and seen the work I've done. And I was presented with a full gubernatorial pardon, restoring all my rights, including the rights to bear arms, last year. And it wasn't something that I expected, and I'm very grateful for that. To me, it's. It's a way of the community showing me that transformation is possible. And if you're listening to this, anyone's listening to this, who might have been convicted of a crime or has any kind of a hurdle to overcome, it's your mindset that's going to keep you stuck or help you to make a move forward and overcoming anything is possible. You know, I Know that there's all kinds of challenges out there, right? Everyone's facing some kind of rock bottom in their life. It could be financial, emotional, you know, it could be substance use, it could be depression. There's a solution to anything in life. It's just you've got to get yourself in a, in a, in a mindset that, okay, I can, I can believe that I can overcome this, brother.
- [57:02]
A
That is the message of my new book coming out November 11th. Pick your copy up anywhere. Escaping the Drift. Available anywhere books are sold.
- [57:08]
B
Sorry to read your book, brother.
- [57:10]
A
I gotta plug it. Well, dude, I, I love this. I wanna, I don't want to go down in the tunnels. At some point, man, I just, I.
- [57:15]
B
Would love to take you.
- [57:16]
A
I think that would be such a. How old do you have to be to go down there?
- [57:20]
B
12.
- [57:21]
A
That's it. I want to take the kids down there.
- [57:24]
B
I have it, you know. Yeah, I think, I think people that.
- [57:27]
A
Take their kids down, I think, you know, one of the biggest fears you have in success is raising kids that are worthwhile. You know what I mean? My kids are great. Don't get me wrong. Your kids, one's 15, 117. But at the same time, you always want to keep them as grounded by showing them as much of the world as you can.
- [57:49]
B
We've designed a special tour for, for Shine a Light that a lot of the politicians, company executives that are interested in, you know, donating. You know, we've had, you know, people from the Raiders, like all kinds of people that come down there and we've designed a very special safe experience for people that would like to go down and just get a glimpse of what it's like.
- [58:13]
A
Yeah, you know, Cool. I'm in, man.
- [58:16]
B
My buddy Fletcher Jones has taken his son down. Yeah, a lot of people have taken their kids down. My kids are 15 and 13.
- [58:23]
A
Yeah.
- [58:24]
B
About to take them down. But it's, it's an eye opening experience and you emerge from that with a lot of gratitude.
- [58:30]
A
And how could you not? Yeah, how could you not?
- [58:33]
B
It's crazy. It's crazy to see the bottom that some people reach and are willing to accept so well, man, thank to have you down there.
- [58:40]
A
Thank you so much for sharing your story, dude. It was inspirational. In the, in, despite of your, despite your rocky start, the world is a better place because you're in it.
- [58:48]
B
Thank you. That's my goal. That's my goal.
- [58:51]
A
That's it. Guys. If you listen to this today, I don't care where you are in your life or what adversity you perceive to be facing you. There is always a next level. Don't let anybody tell you that systematically. You can't escape where you are. The deck is stacked against you. Don't listen to that. You can bootstrap yourself up from wherever you are.
- [59:11]
B
That's right.
- [59:11]
A
And today proved it. We'll see you next time. Hey, it's John Gafford from the Escaping the Drift podcast.
- [59:15]
B
And big news.
- [59:16]
A
My new book, Escaping the Drift is coming out November 11th. You can pre order it right now at thejohngaffer.com There are tons of bonuses, tons of giveaways. Get the book. If you are somebody that feels like you might be drifting along, this is for you. If you know somebody that feels like they might be drifting along, this is for you. Available everywhere, all bookstores, every everywhere, Amazon, Barnes and nobles, the whole 9Y. Pick your copy up right now at thejohngaffer.com and get a bunch of the awesome bonuses I've thrown out because I promise you, I put my heart and soul into this thing. I want it to help you change your life. Pick it up everywhere. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift. Com. You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind. Throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.