Podcast Summary: "Matt Bontrager's Path to Building a $4 Million Firm"

Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Host: John Gafford
Guest: Matt Bontrager, Founder of TrueBooks
Date: September 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, John Gafford speaks with Matt Bontrager—CPA, founder of the rapidly growing accounting firm TrueBooks—about the journey from a secure corporate job to entrepreneurship, the lessons learned while scaling a niche real estate-focused firm to $4 million in revenue, partnership dynamics, handling explosive growth, and fostering culture in a modern remote team.

The conversation is deeply practical, offering lessons for anyone considering the leap from employment to entrepreneurship, with a focus on risk mitigation, building complementary partnerships, hiring, and maintaining quality during fast growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Matt's Path: From UNLV to Deloitte to Entrepreneurship

• Matt's underwhelming GPA in college didn’t stop him from landing a prestigious job at Deloitte. He credits networking, eagerness, and personal connection for his early success.
• Quote (Matt, 04:42): "I wasn't a GPA guy... I was a networker talker. Showing up in a suit... trying to show I was eager to get a good job."
• His mother's outgoing nature inspired his own people skills, later recognized as crucial for business.
• Quote (Matt, 05:20): "You put me in a room and I'll make friends or I'll talk to someone."

2. The Power of Networking and Human Connection

• Gafford stresses to his own (screen-centric) children and listeners: the rare, future-critical value of face-to-face relationship building.
• Quote (John, 05:20): "The best skill that you can have in life is... the ability to look at another human being, connect with them."
• In accounting and other fields, the technical skill must be matched with communication and empathy to drive business.

3. Side Hustle as Market Proof: De-risking Entrepreneurship (07:56 – 10:03)

• Matt mitigated risk by moonlighting: "I started to land a tax return here or there... a book of business around $40,000-50,000 before making the leap."
• He partnered with Ryan Pineda, an influencer, forming a complementary team: Ryan drives business, Matt fulfills it.
• Quote (John, 09:55): "He was proofing the market... That's a smart way to do it."

4. Rapid Scaling: Growth, Pain Points, and Hiring (10:03 – 16:16)

• TrueBooks’ year-over-year top line:
  • 2020: $120K
  • 2021: $860K
  • 2022: $2.6M
  • 2023: $3.4M, with $4M projected for 2024
• Inflection points:
  • 10 months in, stress peaked; rapid sales from podcasts (e.g., BiggerPockets) led to hiring surges (13:47 – 14:46)
  • Specialized hiring filters for CPAs and bookkeepers made scaling possible (15:22 – 16:46)
• Quote (Matt, 15:08): "We sold almost 60 [engagements] per month in Q4 of 2022 just for being on a podcast."

5. How to Build Culture Remotely & Staff Retention (16:46 – 21:17)

• Innovations: purely productivity-driven, no time tracking, flexible time-off, remote work.
• Honest reflection: Matt isn’t sure he has the perfect formula but low turnover speaks for itself.
• Quote (Matt, 16:54): "We don't track time... we trap pure productivity. If I'm paying somebody $80K, I need to make three times the salary."
• The importance of gratitude and transparency in team dynamics.

6. Investing in Staff: Train Your Future Competitors? (18:54 – 20:41)

• Matt leans into staff development, aware it may empower future competitors.
  • Quote (Matt, 19:19): "For me, I would lean in and train that person... for the time period that it does work out, it should be great."
• Gafford likens this to a "coaching tree," where alumni’s future achievements reflect positively on the original leader.

7. Leading with Empathy—Balancing Numbers with People (21:55 – 25:33)

• Discussing personality, honesty, and how Matt's default high-D/high-C (dominance/conscientiousness) needs balancing with transparency and truthfulness.
• Quote (Matt, 23:42): "If honesty leads, how can it go bad?"
• Core values: Being helpful is TrueBooks’ #1.

8. Refund Policy: Putting Integrity Above Profit (26:31 – 26:54)

• Matt’s commitment: issues full refunds if clients aren’t satisfied, even if the engagement letter says no refunds.
  • Quote (Matt, 26:31): "If we have a bad experience and you deserve a refund, I give you a refund... That’s good business."

9. Navigating Social Media & Company Reputation (27:26 – 34:13)

• On handling employee social behavior: Matt has no formal policy yet but would directly address any reputational risk.
• Gafford shares real estate industry experience: clear policies help protect the collective brand (esp. amid volatile social climates).
• Quote (John, 31:54): "If you're making a post, I'm not worried about you... I'm worried about the 585 other people that work here."

10. Making a ‘Boring’ Business Interesting (35:39 – 38:05)

• Matt leverages authenticity, humor, and a plain-spoken approach to tax to differentiate TrueBooks.
  • Quote (Matt, 36:10): "I'm not a normal accountant... I try to break down black magic so people understand."
• Focusing on a niche (real estate investors), who are often uneducated in finance, has been a strategic advantage.

11. Root Mistakes Real Estate Investors Make (40:46 – 42:26)

• Top problem: Poor bookkeeping and failing at timely tax planning (reactive, not proactive).
  • Quote (Matt, 41:14): "For a non-investor, it's entity structure... for somebody with a portfolio, it's cost seg."
• Missed deductions and costly errors are fixable with professional planning.

12. Potential Threats & Planning for Change: Looking Ahead (43:10 – 45:03)

• What if income tax disappeared?
  • Matt would pivot into transactional accounting, leaning on his financial statement expertise.
  • Quote (John, 44:16): "You should never be shocked [in business]."

13. Partnership Dynamics & Exit Planning (45:08 – 46:44)

• Matt’s split with Ryan Pineda took 8 months of negotiation.
  • Both admit: they didn’t plan for the end at the beginning. Now advocate for clear operating agreements and buy/sell plans.
  • Quote (John, 45:52): "If you're going to become partners with somebody... you need to have... a prenup."

14. The Next Phase: Scaling, Roll-ups, and the Future (47:23 – 49:44)

• Matt aims for $10M revenue, at which point CPA firms command 8-10X EBITDA multiples.
• Sees acquisition/roll-up as a primary future growth path; interest in buying small books.
• AI is embraced as a productivity booster, not a threat.

15. The Role of AI in Accounting (49:44 – 50:27)

• AI’s biggest impact: speeds up research, augments (but doesn’t replace) accountants.
  • Quote (Matt, 49:47): "If anything, it's fueled our business and helped us so much... It's great. It's just helping the accountants."
• Customer-facing work and nuanced planning still require a human touch.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Networking over GPA:
  "I wasn't a GPA guy... I was a networker talker." (Matt Bontrager, 04:42)

• On Partnership: "You didn't make that mistake. You found a very complementary piece to what you were able to do." (John Gafford, 12:11)

• On Exponential Sales: "We sold almost 60 throughout those Q per month in Q4 of 2022 just for being on a podcast." (Matt Bontrager, 15:08)

• Staff Development: "For me... I'm going to lean in and train that person... it should be great." (Matt Bontrager, 19:19)

• Refund Commitment: "If we have a bad experience and you deserve a refund, I give you a refund." (Matt Bontrager, 26:31)

• On Mistakes in Real Estate Taxes: "You have people who've paid hundreds of thousands of dollars... and I'm like, with a couple of click boxes and two hours... you would have not paid anything." (Matt Bontrager, 41:14)

• Future Planning: "You’re going to be surprised in business, but you should never be shocked." (John Gafford, 44:16)

• AI's Role: "It's helping the accountants that... we spent a lot of money on trying to leverage bigger tools and integrate them together." (Matt Bontrager, 49:47)

Timestamps For Key Segments

• Landing Deloitte & Importance of Networking: 04:15–05:20
• Side Hustle to Market-Proven Business: 07:56–10:03
• Explosive Growth & Hiring Challenges: 13:47–16:16
• Culture in a Remote Firm: 16:46–21:17
• Investing in Staff/Competitors: 18:54–20:41
• Refund Mindset: 26:31–26:54
• Social Media & Reputation Risks: 27:26–34:13
• Making Boring Interesting/Niche Strategy: 35:39–38:05
• Investor Tax Mistakes: 40:46–42:26
• Threats, Pivots & the Future: 43:10–45:03
• Partnership Exit Lessons: 45:08–46:44
• Growth & Roll-up Discussion: 47:23–49:44
• Accountants & AI: 49:44–50:27

Conclusion

This episode offers a candid, detailed roadmap through the real-world journey of building a high-performing business in a traditionally "boring" niche. Key takeaways include the value of relationship-building, proofing the market before quitting your job, structured yet humane staff management, planning for inevitable change, and embracing technology.

If you're ready to move beyond "drifting," Bontrager's story provides both inspiration and actionable strategies—particularly for those eyeing the leap from employee to entrepreneur or aiming to scale a service business with integrity.

Find Matt Bontrager:

• Instagram: @mattbontrager
• Website: truebookcpa.com

More on the podcast: Escaping the Drift