← Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
Reimagining Career Success and Financial Literacy with Peter Maher
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- [00:00]
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- [00:02]
Peter Mayer
Can I make my site softer?
- [00:03]
John Gafford
Can I make my site firmer?
- [00:05]
Peter Mayer
Can we sleep cooler?
- [00:07]
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- [00:31]
John Gafford
Hey, it's John Gafford from the Escaping the Drift podcast. And big news. My new book, Escaping the Drift is coming out November 11th. You can pre order it right now at thejohngafford.com There are tons of bonuses, tons of giveaways. Get the book. If you are somebody that feels like you might be drifting along, this is for you. If you know somebody that feels like they might be drifting along, this is for you. Available everywhere, all bookstores, everywhere, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, the whole nine yards. But pick your copy up right now@thejohn gaffer.com and get a bunch of the awesome bonuses I've thrown out because I promise you, I put my heart and soul into this thing. I want it to help you change your life. Pick it up everywhere. So obviously the vision for the vision for the company is pretty laid out. That roadmap. Where do you see yourself in like 10 years? Where do you want to be?
- [01:21]
Peter Mayer
Oh, man. Personally, yeah.
- [01:28]
John Gafford
And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift. And it's time to start right now. Back again. Back again for another episode of the podcast. Like it says in the opening, man gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today, dude, this is a really innovative talk we're going to have today. In studio today we have a gentleman who is a fintech executive. He's been a firefighter in his previous life and he's on a mission, which I thought this was the coolest thing to kill payday loans. He is the head operator over at a new company called Float. I can't wait to hear more about it. This should be a cool talk. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the studio. This is Peter Mayer.
- [02:23]
Peter Mayer
Peter hey, thanks.
- [02:24]
John Gafford
How are you, dude?
- [02:25]
Peter Mayer
Doing well, doing well. I'm excited to be here.
- [02:27]
John Gafford
Yeah. So I want to jump right into this because look, I think anybody, you know, part of our mission here, obviously with escaping the drift is to get people that are in situations where they think maybe they're behind the eight ball, maybe they're. Maybe things seem a little hopeless. I mean, there was a time in my life many, many moons ago when I destroyed my credit like it was an Olympic sport. And I think anybody in that situation, maybe from time to time has had to go to one of these payday loan places and they're just like, dude, it's, it's like going to see the old school mafia by the time they start tacking on all these fees and everything. And when I heard that you were out to kill them, I was like, okay, this is not really kill. Not really YouTube, don't ban my video. But out to, to end their business model as they are. So tell me about that. Then we'll go back and kind of figure out your story a little bit.
- [03:19]
Peter Mayer
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it's, you know, I. Thank you for clarifying that. We're not actually going to.
- [03:25]
John Gafford
Yeah. Not actually going to kill anybody.
- [03:26]
Peter Mayer
The reality, the reality is there's a, there's a better way to do things. Right. The way in which things are done today. The credit system, while it started for a purpose, is antiquated. It's outdated. Right. The people that need a little bit of flexibility, a little bit of float are the people that have the hardest time accessing it. And the less you need it, the more it's available to you. Right. And I would, I would challenge you. I think I probably had the lowest credit score of anybody I've ever met at some point because I too tanked it when I was 19.
- [03:54]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [03:55]
Peter Mayer
So we'll have to maybe we'll see who's got low score at some point. Or did.
- [03:58]
John Gafford
Yeah. I mean, well, they hand. I mean it was like first day on college campus, there's all those tables at the union. Yep. Who wants a credit card?
- [04:05]
Peter Mayer
Yeah, my friend's parents were paying for him to go on spring break. I called my dad and he got a nice laugh out of me asking for him to pay for me to go to spring break. Then just like a gift from God, a pre approved credit card. So I went to the Bahamas. I had a great time. I maxed it out, not knowing anything about how interest rates and minimum payments work. Finally I just kind of took the mindset of I'LL pay them back later. It's a couple grand, right? I spent the better part of the next 10 years of my life trying to pay that off, trying to turn that around. And like you, I experienced payday lending.
- [04:38]
John Gafford
So isn't it, isn't it funny, man, how like your, your parents never taught you about credit cards and how like how they really work and that stuff, like just the financial literacy that you got parents back in the day is not nearly. I think what parents do now, I mean, I'm deliberately trying to ruin my son as we speak. So both my kids have credit cards and they're teenagers and, and they, you know, they work and they spend money all through the month, but they have to put everything on the credit card.
- [05:08]
Peter Mayer
Nice.
- [05:08]
John Gafford
And then at the end of the month, I reconcile what they spent and they have to pay it off 100. And if they can't, I just annihilate them with like 28% interest. I'm just like, you got to pay dad the juice. And, and yeah, because I'm trying to, I'm trying to teach that lesson or not playing for keeps. Yeah. Because so many people have made that mistake in their life and they do get demolished by a trip to the Bahamas turns into this. So how are you turning this around?
- [05:36]
Peter Mayer
You know, it's interesting. So I've been in call it payments of one, one form or another for the last 12, 15 years for me. I've always had a passion about alternatives to credit. Right. A credit score, I guess, proud to have a great one. Now, it's not an indicator of affordability, Right. It's an indicator, more likely, if it's a poor credit score, as they would say, it's more an indicator that something went wrong at some point, could be a life event, could be a poor choice, but it has nothing to do with what they can afford or how well they manage their cash currently. Right. And you and I both probably know several people who likely have 800 credit scores and live under a mountain of debt.
- [06:16]
John Gafford
Oh yeah, for sure.
- [06:17]
Peter Mayer
They've just figured out how to make the minimum payment or free up their line enough that they can fill it up again the following month. So at float, I spent the last several years in, in buy now, pay later, right. And there's several providers out there, Klarna, afterpay, zip, sezzle. And while they do great things, they serve a good consumer base. They're all largely built on the exact same model, right? Which is soft credit pools, bureau data scoring, and then the ones who can go Deeper on a credit score. It's not rocket science. They give small dollar amounts in a very short period of time to repay it. Very little risk for them.
- [06:58]
John Gafford
Real quick, for those of you who don't know what you just said, the Buy now pay later, these are companies that can hook to e commerce platforms where you can purchase something now. Very similar to getting cred like a back in the day with like a rent a center where you would get like a washing machine and pay for it little by little.
- [07:15]
Peter Mayer
Yeah, correct. Yep. And then it allows them to split.
- [07:17]
John Gafford
Micro credit for purchase microcredit.
- [07:20]
Peter Mayer
You can purchase something today. The buy now pay later provider pays the business in full and then the consumer repays the buy now pay later over a few installments. Right. So.
- [07:30]
John Gafford
So what's wrong with the traditional model of people doing that normally?
- [07:33]
Peter Mayer
Well, there's nothing wrong with it. I don't actually even think it's really like predatory per se, but it locks out a lot of people because of the model that it's built on. Right. So if you have a low credit score, think about the US right now you've got no less than 120 to 130 million people, adults that have a 620 or below credit score. Right. You've got tens of millions of gig workers that don't have consistent employment data or reliable cash flow data in terms of payroll. You've got our leadership team, you know, at float, you've got expats that have had successful careers and came over to the US for job opportunity, have an established credit immigrants new to credit 18 to 25 year olds. When you add up this entire population, it's no less than 150 million people. Right. And the scary thing is that's over half of all US adult consumers that for the most part can't even access buy now pay later let alone traditional credit.
- [08:30]
John Gafford
Wow.
- [08:31]
Peter Mayer
Right. And so what we've done and the risk that we've taken is to turn our back on the credit model. So we are the first totally credit score agnostic buy now pay later provider where we're connected through partners within open banking where we can look at an individual and say what can they afford and how can they afford it? We're not here to enable people to buy Louis Vuittons or pelotons or a joke like any other type of ton, probably right? But we can look at somebody and say they can afford a $200 purchase, but instead of eating up all their liquidity to make that, we'll make the purchase for them and Allow them to spread it out over a few weeks that fits into their cash flow cycle. And we don't use credit score as an indicator as to whether or not we'll approve them.
- [09:17]
John Gafford
Use cash in, cash out of their other bank accounts.
- [09:20]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. So through it, through our partners, we can pull what's called aggregate data. Right. And we can get a healthy snapshot of the last 90 days or so of their even older if we, even more if we need to. But what's their money in, money out frequency? How much of their money is going towards installments? What type of merchants are they shopping at? They had several overdrafts. Right. And then we can make an informed decision around their current affordability status as to how much they could reasonably have outstanding with us at a given time. And then alternative to that, as we build a relationship with that consumer and they show positive repayment history and things like that, we're open to the idea of enabling them by giving them a little bit more. But there will be never, there will never be a world where we're there to help people make 2, 3, 4, $5,000.
- [10:08]
John Gafford
Sure.
- [10:09]
Peter Mayer
Right.
- [10:09]
John Gafford
It's everyday, it's a little float.
- [10:10]
Peter Mayer
So it's just a little bit of float. A little float, yeah. Don't sweat it.
- [10:14]
John Gafford
Can people. Now, is this a, now will this be a payment process you can use for anything? Is there strictly, is it strictly like if it happens to be used by this consumer or this, this e commerce system or whatever it is?
- [10:25]
Peter Mayer
Yeah, I mean that's a, it's a great question. So merchants find the value in what we're doing because it enables us to help the debit and cash majority transact in a responsible way. Right. So there's value to them by having us on their e commerce site. Because if you think about it, across any merchant in any category Today in the U.S. at least 30 to 50% of their transactions, sometimes higher depending on what they do, are still debit and cash. Right. And that's not because that's their preferred method of payment. It's their only method, payment. Right. How many people didn't transact with a given merchant because that was their only payment method. Right. And so there's, there's huge value to the merchant and us being able to create some customer loyalty and help drive conversion at their site. But additionally, like, we exist to serve the consumer. Right. So in our app, which will be launching in the next couple of months, a consumer can go in, link their account and tell them, hey, this is what we think. You can Afford based on your data might be a couple, a few hundred dollars and then essentially they can use that anywhere in store or online. Yeah, that MasterCard.
- [11:37]
John Gafford
Using their phone to pay.
- [11:38]
Peter Mayer
Yep.
- [11:38]
John Gafford
You're essentially going to give them a debit card, but you're essentially going to give them a credit line. You're getting a credit card. Now does this, will this report to the credit bureaus to help them? No, it will not.
- [11:47]
Peter Mayer
Nope. We'll never report to credit bureaus.
- [11:50]
John Gafford
Never report because you're trying to break that system, you're not trying to be part of it.
- [11:53]
Peter Mayer
Yep. It'll never happen. But the beauty of like open banking data versus credit data is as we scale this up, we can become less of just a payment method and more of like financial wellness where we can look at somebody and say like, hey, here's the categories you were spending at the last couple of months. Here's where maybe you might want to set aside some cash in case of a rainy day so you don't have to use us. Right. Or here's maybe where you might want to think about us for this upcoming bill so that you're not eating up all your cash flow and actually provide like close to real time financial wellness insights based on their spending habit like patterns.
- [12:31]
John Gafford
Now how are you monetizing this? Because you said earlier you're not charging them an interest rate. There's no apr, there's no juice to the consumer. So how are you monetizing as a company?
- [12:39]
Peter Mayer
It's a great question. We are a. Not for profit. No, I'm just kidding. But it's, it's a, I do, I've.
- [12:45]
John Gafford
Had a couple of those businesses. Not intentionally, but it just worked out that way.
- [12:49]
Peter Mayer
Believe that you can have an innovative fintech without exploitation. Right. And so for me, we work with the merchants, we work with our partners. Right. If we can convert a consumer that they may have otherwise lost, who might have gone somewhere and bought it for $3 cheaper because they're very price sensitive. Right. Merchants are happy to pay a transaction fee for that. So for us it's one of two ways. Either without going too far into the weeds, we can pay the merchant using a card at which we have a partnership with the network. And when they pay their card processing fee, we get a slice of that.
- [13:22]
John Gafford
That's the MasterCard affiliation.
- [13:24]
Peter Mayer
Yep. Or whoever their card processor provider is, we don't control what they pay. That's between the merchant and them, but we get a piece of that interchange. Additionally, we can settle directly to a merchant, almost like A wire and achieve kind of at which point we just agree to a transaction rate, you know, a couple, a couple of percentage points on the transaction, similar to their other processing costs. So we're making, so we're making money on the transaction on the merchant side. And then the goal long term is we create such a loyal user base within the app. Right. We can have affiliate, we can have revenue share from other providers. And then down the road we may even offer an option to consumers. It will always be free to anybody to use us. But where, if we do build in all these budgeting and wellness tools and things like that, that maybe we charge a $4 a month subscription or something for those that want to opt into it, but we'll never monetize the consumer off late fees, APRs or installment fees.
- [14:22]
John Gafford
I think the parent company to this is publicly traded. Yes.
- [14:26]
Peter Mayer
Yep. Small cap public company out of Australia.
- [14:28]
John Gafford
Okay, so there are public. Okay, they're publicly traded. Because I'm thinking how do you raise debt for this if you're, if your, your lifeblood is a sliver of transaction fees? I mean, how do you raise debt when the wind, I mean, the debt cost would be more than that.
- [14:46]
Peter Mayer
Well, the, the debt cost really isn't that much. So you have a, you have a debt facility that you use to fund the merchant settlements. So if you're the merchant, I'm paying you in full at the time of transaction and we're making revenue off that transaction. But then the consumer enters into a repayment agreement with us that isn't months. Right. It's, it's high volume, high, high turnaround.
- [15:07]
John Gafford
It's very quick.
- [15:08]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. So it's, it could be, depending on where they're purchasing and how they're using it, it could be one payment a couple or a few days later, or it could be four payments over the next six, eight weeks.
- [15:19]
John Gafford
Okay. So normally your money is normally not out for longer than the cycle is very short on the money. So you can, you can recapitalize quickly. So you don't need that much capital sitting in an account to fund all of this.
- [15:31]
Peter Mayer
You really don't. You really don't. There's BNPL providers out there doing, you know, a couple of billion in transaction volume that are doing it off of a debt facility of a couple hundred million.
- [15:41]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [15:43]
Peter Mayer
And for us, we want to, you know, you, you say that like you want your kids to pay off the balance in full. Right. Reward that habit. So like we want to incentivize healthy repayment habits. Right. So you may have heard about like a buy now, pay later provider that, that integrated with one of the big food delivery services and some article came out that said you can now pay off your burrito over six weeks.
- [16:04]
John Gafford
Right.
- [16:06]
Peter Mayer
And while, while I kind of. It's not 100% true that people are just using it for a $6 burrito. In fact, I don't think you could. There are minimums, but you still shouldn't have six weeks to pay off something that maybe you need to pay purchase every week. Right. So, you know, I think about gas and grocery, which are heavily criticized categories from the lens of someone looking at it where. Why would you give somebody six weeks to pay off something they're purchasing every week? Well, for us we won't. Right. But what we'll do is we want. I remember a time where the low gas light came on Tuesday and gases for. And paydays Friday.
- [16:44]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [16:44]
Peter Mayer
Right. Still got to get to work. Like you still got to feed your family. So for us, we want to incentivize the consumer to opt into things like pay in one, which is where, hey, we will get you your groceries or get you your gas and we'll float you till Friday or whatever your next payday is.
- [17:00]
John Gafford
So are you using. I'm guessing this is all AI data driven is what you're deciding based on. So you're categorizing things in real time based on what they are, how, like how many payments you offer on them. Is that all that's just real time driven?
- [17:14]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. So to. To an extent. So we have a. In our origination and management system, essentially when somebody makes a request, we can look at like where they're looking to shop with us, especially if it's an integrated merchant or somebody and make a decision. But the biggest thing is when we have, when we're using open banking data, we can see is this person paid weekly, bi weekly, semi, monthly. Right. And we can do things like auto align payday or due date to be payday plus one. Right?
- [17:42]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [17:42]
Peter Mayer
People will pay you back if you ask for the money when they have it generally.
- [17:46]
John Gafford
And if only that was true on some of the deals I've been in.
- [17:50]
Peter Mayer
Good luck. Some of my friends, there's always one in every group group where you have to chase them down for a Venmo.
- [17:56]
John Gafford
I was referring to a lawsuit I've had going for about seven years for over a million bucks. But that's okay.
- [18:00]
Peter Mayer
But we want, but we do want to do things like with categories where say for example, gas. Right. Gas could be a merchant category code, essentially at a high level, we can restrict gas. So somebody can't just go use our card and purchase gas. Right. So what they'd have to do within our application is actually let us know that they're purchasing gas, in which case we'll only present to pay in one. Yeah, right, yeah. So that we don't take on the reputation.
- [18:27]
John Gafford
Those decisions change in real time.
- [18:29]
Peter Mayer
Yeah.
- [18:30]
John Gafford
So it can change based on their spending habits, based on what they're doing. It just, it's, it's all run by one giant algorithm in the back that's making these decisions for you guys.
- [18:39]
Peter Mayer
Several, several algorithms. I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by people on this team that have been in consumer finance, open banking since it started, that have worked for some of the largest retailers and payments providers in the world, that have come over to join on the mission, and the partners tied to us as well that are helping us create this logic, create these algorithms. But yeah, we're making the decision in real time. We're not anytime soon going to be enabling people to do anything long term unless it's for a very specific merchant or partner. Yeah, that needs that. But yeah, we're decisioning. We can tell, we can tell when somebody links their account, if they have regular employment income or if, because of the sums and the frequency, if they're a gig worker. Right. In which case we should probably present a little bit of a different payment plan or give them the optionality to move up or out their due date if something arises.
- [19:40]
John Gafford
Does it, does it scare you at all with the advancements in AI and every day you see this, you know, segment of people is going to get wiped away and these jobs are going away and you know, all these companies are laying people off. Does it, does it worry you at all, being in that business of floating.
- [19:54]
Peter Mayer
Yeah.
- [19:55]
John Gafford
That you guys could get caught behind a tsunami of all of a sudden like, oh my gosh, we've got all these people now defaulting. Is that part of your equation? Like, how are you modeling that out?
- [20:04]
Peter Mayer
There's always risk, Right. What's interesting is we'll go around. Yeah, there's always risk. You know, if I, if I could tell you what was going to happen six months from now, I'd be, I'd be in a different category, you know, but, but the reality is it's all about managing risk. Right. So like somebody who's new to us, we're not going to start out like with a really high line exposure. Right. And it's going to be faster repayment periods and things. You know, interestingly enough, while loss rates across BNPL have crept up in recent months, I have to give a lot of credit to the, to some of the incumbents like Zip and such, who have taken a chance on the traditional model of credit underwriting, but still gone to what's deemed by many a higher risk consumer base based on credit scoring. And they've maintained loss rates that are significantly below sometimes less than half of what traditional credit providers can do or credit cards.
- [21:00]
John Gafford
Huh.
- [21:01]
Peter Mayer
Right. And so I think it indicates a lot of loyalty amongst a consumer base that doesn't have many options.
- [21:06]
John Gafford
Yeah, yeah. You know, they don't view it as this giant evil empire. They view it as somebody that's trying to help them out.
- [21:12]
Peter Mayer
Yeah.
- [21:13]
John Gafford
How do you guys, how do you guys. So let me ask you this though. How do you create a culture within your client base where you connect with them that way?
- [21:20]
Peter Mayer
Well, exceptional marketing. Right. So we're. But I think it's also about flexibility, giving them optionality, you know, letting them know that they can make progress without pressure. For us, it's like if somebody, somebody lets us know that like, hey, I lost my job, I'm in a hardship, like they don't have to worry about us sending them to collections or anything like that. Yeah. We might pause the account and say, hey, pay us back when you can and then you can continue using it.
- [21:51]
John Gafford
But you're not there to pile on when things get.
- [21:53]
Peter Mayer
We're not here to pile it onto them. Right. There will be bad actors. Honestly, the biggest threat to us isn't necessarily some huge economic change because you tend to be able to see that coming a little bit.
- [22:05]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [22:05]
Peter Mayer
Right. Biggest threat to us is just ensuring that we block out the bad actors so that we can empower the good ones. There's going to be fraud everywhere or attempted.
- [22:13]
John Gafford
Right. What that's. That brings me next question. So what systems are you guys put in place to try to limit fraud?
- [22:19]
Peter Mayer
Yeah, well, at the highest level, Right. This is something that a lot of people just don't really realize or know. But if you go to the majority of the incumbent traditional buy now, pay laters out there today. Right. The only thing you need roughly to apply or try and open an account is name, date of birth, phone number, address, email.
- [22:40]
John Gafford
Yeah, it's dark web. You know that in five seconds you.
- [22:43]
Peter Mayer
Can have that information on me in 20 minutes if a lot less with GPT or dark web. Right. Most of it's Google publicly available. If you're a Little creative. Right. You don't need social or anything. So for good reasons. Their fraud guard rails are high, but when you look at a consumer that maybe doesn't own a home, Right. Or maybe is renting or on a lease, that's not in their name or has changed. Has changed addresses, has changed phone numbers, a lot of them get booted out during ID verification because those risk guardrails are so high in our model, it's much harder to link your bank account.
- [23:19]
John Gafford
Right, yeah, that's true.
- [23:20]
Peter Mayer
Yeah.
- [23:20]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [23:21]
Peter Mayer
We need all that. We don't. We're not just gonna use. We're not just gonna use technology to try and figure out if the five bits of information you put in are actually you. Right. We're actually gonna ask you to link your account and then we can do things in real time like tying that account back to device ownership. Are they logging in and. Yeah, right.
- [23:39]
John Gafford
And if somebody had access to somebody's bank account at that level, they would just steal their money, not yours.
- [23:43]
Peter Mayer
They're not going for buy now, pay later.
- [23:45]
John Gafford
Why are they still money when they just join their account? Yeah. Good. So what's the law? So what is the. How many users currently on the platform? How long you guys been up?
- [23:53]
Peter Mayer
So we are actually launching.
- [23:54]
John Gafford
Oh, you're just getting ready to launch.
- [23:56]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. So, you know, we're here in Vegas meeting with a ton of our partners that we're really excited to begin announcing in the next few weeks. Both across the merchant ecosystem, but also fintechs and payments providers that have really gotten behind our message. So it's really exciting. We're launching the app and our first merchants and partners at the end of Q1. We'll be delivering our MVP and test transactions in January.
- [24:22]
John Gafford
Okay.
- [24:22]
Peter Mayer
Yep.
- [24:23]
John Gafford
So are you guys. So you guys are first in your space doing this with this, where you're linked to your thing. Are you strictly going on demand based on the people using Buy now, pay later through these other companies and just think, you have a better way, you have a better mousetrap, or did you guys actually send this out into the world and say, hey, would you be willing to give us this info? Did you. I mean, did you test market at all?
- [24:45]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. Well, so luckily most everybody on the team has been in payments either on the provider or merchant standpoint for a very long time. Just across the five leadership team. I mean, we'd. Well, there's over 100 years of payments experience.
- [25:00]
John Gafford
Okay.
- [25:02]
Peter Mayer
So very good people that I'm with. But we have, we've tested the hypothesis across Several different merchant conversations, payments providers, we validated the data, we've done surveys. Everything we can do without actually just having the product out there.
- [25:18]
John Gafford
Sure.
- [25:19]
Peter Mayer
But the exciting thing is like we're at Money 2020 this conference in Vegas this week. Right. It's very hard for a brand new fintech startup to have the sort of meetings that we, that we're having, Right?
- [25:31]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [25:31]
Peter Mayer
A lot of it comes from just relationships within the industry. When they hear the value prop and they hear the consumer base that we're going after and it's not a portion of the same consumer base that's using BNPL today. It's generating a lot of buy in and a lot of support. So.
- [25:48]
John Gafford
So what's the go to market strategy?
- [25:51]
Peter Mayer
The go to market strategy is kind of twofold. Right. So in today's world, like it's not just go to market strategy, but you can do building and everything. We can do lean and agile. Right. Like we built our entire platform and engine and soup to nuts. We didn't acquire another one input, dress it up and we're doing it start to finish in six months. Right. Three years ago that would not have.
- [26:16]
John Gafford
No, I built well, dude, it can just do your basic coding and the stuff on the back end can be done. We would twice as fast with half the engineers.
- [26:23]
Peter Mayer
We would have needed 50 people.
- [26:24]
John Gafford
That's right.
- [26:25]
Peter Mayer
To do what we're doing. But also with our go to market strategy, it doesn't necessarily make sense to bring in a huge sales force and start calling one to one on a ton of merchants and such. So our strategy is partnerships, first driven approach. Right. So there's very big providers within the payments ecosystem that are already working with the world's largest merchants, smallest merchants, medium merchants, that believe in what we're doing and we've invited them to be a part of it. And so in exchange, they're doing things like bringing us into their payments ecosystem that they offer to all of their existing merchants. Right. And then through that, the merchant no longer has to find out and figure out whether or not they want to integrate us or fit us into their roadmap. They can just turn us on. Just like they can decide, hey, we want to accept Visa or Discover. Right. And turn it on. So that's a, that's a path for us. We also know that, you know, 15, 20% of the consumers that see us at a merchant's checkout will be their first experience with us and that they'll go on to download our app and use it moving forward. So there is a customer acquisition strategy from the merchants checkout there. That is, it's low CAC and it drives a lot of awareness while also benefiting the merchant.
- [27:41]
John Gafford
Because all of a sudden you're just going to be there and they'll pop up and be like, what is this?
- [27:44]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. And they'll see an advertisement maybe if the merchant's partnering with us that says pay with float.
- [27:50]
John Gafford
Yeah. I'm a huge fan of borrowing sales forces from partnering companies. Like if who has your client already, how can I work with you to enhance your offering and just leverage your salesforce, which is essentially what you guys are doing 100%. They just drop you in your platform and you just show up one day and all of a sudden that's gonna. That in itself creates like, well, what is this? I haven't seen this before.
- [28:12]
Peter Mayer
Yep.
- [28:13]
John Gafford
And people looking for alternatives that other than draining their own bank account are gonna click on just about any alternative you put in front of them. Just from need.
- [28:20]
Peter Mayer
100%. Like somebody shouldn't have to choose freaky things. Is a while back I saw that 40% of households in the US would struggle to cover an unexpected $400 expense. Right.
- [28:31]
John Gafford
Same.
- [28:31]
Peter Mayer
You shouldn't have to make the choice of all your cash flow and liquidity to get something that you want or suddenly need. Right. I think about, like, I think about where we can add values. It's. It's the things that everyday people want or need access to. Whether it's. Whether it's tickets to take your kids to a ball game, whether it's, you know, the $500 deductible that you might have to pay after you got into an accident.
- [28:55]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [28:55]
Peter Mayer
Right. You know, you deserve access to those.
- [28:59]
John Gafford
Things without having to visit to the pediatrician.
- [29:01]
Peter Mayer
Man, that's a visit to the pediatrician. Co pays if they're lucky enough to have insurance. You know, it's not, it's not up to us to decide necessarily what the where and how the consumer can use us. It's just to make sure that it's within reason available. Yep. And it's not something that's going to put them into a bad situation like they can't use us to go, you know, fund their gambling account.
- [29:23]
John Gafford
All right, so well, let's back up and ask a totally different question. How do you go from being a fire. How do you wind up being a fireman? And how do you go to being like, how do you go from fireman to most innovative guy in fintech? Because that, that seems like an interesting story that I want to hear.
- [29:37]
Peter Mayer
So I actually still am a fireman.
- [29:39]
John Gafford
Still our fireman.
- [29:39]
Peter Mayer
Okay. Our fireman medic. My story is one that's really unique. Everybody's is, you know, I think, you know, like, the greatest version of yourself is out there waiting for you. Right? And it's just like the only way to get there is to. Is. Is not just to pay attention to what other people are doing and trying to replicate it, but more importantly, learn from your mistakes along the way. Right? And so, like, I tanked my credit. Right. Learned from that mistake. I actually am not a college graduate.
- [30:08]
John Gafford
Neither am I.
- [30:09]
Peter Mayer
You know, and that is something that at the midpoint in my career, I used to have a lot of insecurity about stepping into a room. Now, I think it's very likely one of my greatest strengths, right? Because my, my perspective is entirely from my experience.
- [30:24]
John Gafford
Well, let me ask you, Let me ask you this, because I'll tell you my experience with that, which was, you know, early in my career when I thought that that was very, very important. I never necessarily lied about it, but I never. I never clarified it. I didn't clarify it either. Right. I have a PhD in my fraternity, but did not finish. Did not finish school, but I never clarified with people. And so how it got outed for me was I was on the Apprentice, and I'm sitting there the very first day we're on that show, and Donald Trump comes out and says, so this year we're going to do things a little differently. Half of you have college degrees and half of you are high school graduates. And I'm like, holy shit, I'm about to get outed on national, like, literally national television. This is how it's going to come out. And I remember, like, you know, I just didn't even know what to do and got through it. And then here's, you know, months later, it's time to debut the show, and we had a watch party, and it was everybody I was friends with and everybody that knew me, and we're all there, and here comes the show. And that happened. And they said that. And then it was street smarts versus book smarts, and nobody ever said a word about it. And it's like something that I had built up in my head that it was going to be this heavy thing that I was going to judge for. Nobody cared.
- [31:43]
Peter Mayer
Nobody cares.
- [31:43]
John Gafford
Nobody cares.
- [31:44]
Peter Mayer
I always think back on, you know, David Goggins, guaranteed, you know, he always says, like, your mind is not your friend, right? Like, it knows all your deepest, sturdiest Secrets. And it uses, tries to use them against you. I have yet to ever tell somebody that I didn't go to college. And worst case scenario, they didn't care. But usually they actually think it's like a pleasant surprise, a good surprise.
- [32:07]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [32:07]
Peter Mayer
Or how many people have you told that then said, me too, you know, I think anymore.
- [32:13]
John Gafford
I think it doesn't come up that often.
- [32:14]
Peter Mayer
Yep. Do you, do you remember? For me, it used to be you said you avoided it. Like, did I go to college?
- [32:23]
John Gafford
Yes, I did.
- [32:23]
Peter Mayer
Yes, I did.
- [32:24]
John Gafford
Yes I did.
- [32:25]
Peter Mayer
But I was always worried about the follow up question.
- [32:27]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [32:28]
Peter Mayer
What was your major? Or what, or what year?
- [32:29]
John Gafford
That's okay. What year did you say? That's okay too.
- [32:32]
Peter Mayer
Yeah, for me I was like anthropology. Anthropology, yeah.
- [32:34]
John Gafford
Yeah, that's okay.
- [32:36]
Peter Mayer
But then the. What year did you graduate?
- [32:37]
John Gafford
You're like, yeah, I felt the institution had nothing further to offer me. Somewhere in the year of 1992. Yeah.
- [32:43]
Peter Mayer
Well, so, so I, I dropped out a couple years in and. And I actually wanted to be a firefighter. Right. So I went and got my, I went through. In Kansas City, I went through academy. I moved to New Hampshire and got my medic, a bunch of backcountry medicine stuff too, knowing I wanted to move to Colorado. And then I moved young and dumb to Denver, Colorado, thinking I've got my certs. Denver fire is going to hire me tomorrow. Didn't work that way. So in the two years that I spent trying to get on with one department, instead of going out and getting experience and volunteering, I was bartending in Denver. And what it was actually one of my bar regulars over the course of months that owned a construction company and talked me into coming into sales form. So I was like, you know what? Screw it. It's almost like a wolf of Wall street moment. He showed me what a couple of his sales guys were making and I was like, I will do that.
- [33:34]
John Gafford
Yes, I can do this.
- [33:35]
Peter Mayer
I will go knock doors and sell roofs.
- [33:38]
John Gafford
Yeah. Oh, that's big dollars, right? That's big dollars.
- [33:41]
Peter Mayer
It can be. And you know, and then fast forward, you know, I don't even know what that was. 17 years ish. Or something later, here I am, right? But, but the coolest thing is I live in Golden, Colorado. Our volunteer, our fire department, the one that I'm on, is all volunteer. And so a few years ago I got connected with a few of the guys on the department and we were just joking and talking about things and they invited me to come up and meet the rest of the Department. And so I've been doing search and rescue, wildland firefighting, structural firefighting, and motor vehicles response for the last five years in my. When I'm not, you know, fighting the credit institutions.
- [34:23]
John Gafford
Oh, that's dude. That's a dude. I'm putting fires out every day here, but it has nothing to do with actually being out in the wilderness. It's kind of. Yeah, my phone never stops ringing, which is how it is.
- [34:31]
Peter Mayer
It gives me perspective. You know, there's so many times at previous companies and such where sure, an issue pops up, right?
- [34:38]
John Gafford
Like, this is not a real problem.
- [34:39]
Peter Mayer
This is not the worst day of your life, right? This is not a real problem. Like, yeah, I've got work, I don't have problems.
- [34:45]
John Gafford
Dude, don't you love when people have to say stuff? Oh, this is the worst. I'm having the worst day ever. Really? You're having the worst day ever? The worst day ever because I turned on and saw some refugees on a boat trying to get from one country that oppresses them. Just hoping to get to freedom is worse than that or. What are we talking about?
- [35:03]
Peter Mayer
I have a, I have a kind of big brother who's sort of taken me under his wings Since I was 18, a guy named Marion back in Denver. And one day I was, I was bitching about something like 10 years ago, and I'll never forget, he was like, petey, the worst day you ever have will be better than somebody's best.
- [35:18]
John Gafford
Oh, dude.
- [35:19]
Peter Mayer
And I was just like, well, you.
- [35:21]
John Gafford
Know, something like, it's something like to be in the top 1% in the United States, I think you've got to make like a hundred and $90,000 or something. It's not a lot. Yeah, right. To be in the top 1% on Earth, it's like 38 grand. And when you hear that, you're like, you know, I mean, maybe it's not so bad. It doesn't really matter what the government's doing today because maybe it's an okay place to live.
- [35:51]
Peter Mayer
My wife, my wife and I play the. Play the. We call it the worst case scenario game, right? And it's. And we, and we back into like, what's the worst case scenario of this? And then, okay, that happens. What's the worst case scenario of this? Right? And when I, when I chose to make the decision to come over here and really try and build this thing, I was walking away from a very comfortable long term job, right?
- [36:12]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [36:12]
Peter Mayer
And the worst case scenario ended us, ended us back at a place where it's like. And it's. It's not a bad job if you're doing it. But like, it's like, hey, like, we ran out of money. I couldn't get a new job in time. We lost the house. We're back in an apartment where we started, right? Working in a restaurant in the kitchen or something. She's like, so that's the worst. And I was like, yeah, I think that's about as far as I would fall. And she's like, great. What happens six months from now? From then? I was like, I'm managing the restaurant. She's like, what about after that? I was like, I'm managing the region of restaurants. Yeah, right. And then I'm taking that and parlaying it, and it's just like the end of the day. Like, most problems aren't problems, you know?
- [36:52]
John Gafford
Yeah. You know, it's funny. I've got a book coming out November 11th, and congrats. Thanks. It's a long time in the process. And through that process, if you've never written a book before, through that process, you get reviews from, like, the book buying reviewers, like these companies that review books for the book buyers. My publisher calls me up and he goes, hey, you're getting a review tomorrow from Publishers Weekly. Like, cool. I'm all excited about it. First. First, like, review from a professional person. And I get it and I read it, and it's not super complimentary. And I was, like, super bummed about it. And I went to bed and I was like, man, I'm super bummed about that. I woke up the next morning, I read it again, and I love this review. I love it. I absolutely love it. Here's why. Because the person that wrote it obviously is subjective. It's one person. Their job is to read books and then write for this thing. That's their job. I get it. And they wrote this. This sentence made my day about this review because they said that my. My. My help can come off as trite because I do not recognize the myriad systemic problems or myriad systematic issues. And I present all problems as solvable. And I was like, yeah, you're 100% right. I do. And anybody that believes that the myriad systematic issues that you can't solve a problem because the boogeyman or the government or your social construct has set the world up against you. Yeah, you're gonna hate my book. It's not for you. And it's like, how can I believe that? Because, dude, I've had so many people sit in the seat that you're in. You know that hat dude that demolished his credit, didn't graduate from college selling roofs is now, you know, the forefront of one of the most innovative fintech companies out there. That shouldn't have happened. Yeah, right. Wait, wait, how's that happen?
- [38:44]
Peter Mayer
Yep.
- [38:45]
John Gafford
Right. I mean, guys that came here, like I said, on rafts from Vietnam, that now on a thousand doors, yep, that shouldn't happen. But yet it does. And it's because I think people in life, you have two choices. You can see problems as solvable and you can take responsibility for where you are.
- [39:01]
Peter Mayer
Couldn't agree more.
- [39:02]
John Gafford
Like, you didn't come in here and tell me that the evil travel company demolished your credit because they made you go to the Bahamas and you know, the MasterCard made you take that card and go buy the Money that was 100%. You took responsibility for that. And I think that's the difference.
- [39:17]
Peter Mayer
I think, you know, I, I am totally understanding of the fact that we don't all have the same starting line. Right. And it's, it's not as easy for some as it is for others. But at the same time, it's like, there's also a quote that I love, right. Which is, we are all self made. Only those, or usually only those who like where they're at will admit it. So you've never heard somebody say self made? Average self made.
- [39:40]
John Gafford
Oh, I like that. Yeah, I like that.
- [39:42]
Peter Mayer
Self made, out of shape.
- [39:43]
John Gafford
Everybody is self made, except only those.
- [39:46]
Peter Mayer
Who like where they are will choose to admit it. Right.
- [39:49]
John Gafford
It's really good.
- [39:50]
Peter Mayer
And so, you know, to me it's it. I really do believe, like, your results are a reflection of the work that you put in when nobody's looking. Right. And from learning from your mistakes. It's like, I can't change the fact that I made a dumb decision with a credit card. It's not their fault. Where do I go from here? And how do I make sure it never happens again? And honestly, like with that mindset, and there's moments, everybody has moments where you feel underwater. But like with that mindset, it's, it's, it shaped every. Everything I am today. Right. And there's still a long way to go. Like, the best version of me is out there waiting somewhere. But like, it's wild to me. Somebody said the other day, if you could do it all over the same way, would you? And I was like, hell yeah. Because it's the only thing I know. It's. But it's so far, so good.
- [40:35]
John Gafford
Yeah, that's that's the only thing for me that I kind of regret is the amount of time I kind of spent screwing around. I think, dude, where would I be if I hadn't screwed around that time? Which is, you know, that's, you know, somebody asked me yesterday what my book was about. I was like, it's, it's a user's manual to my dipshit 27 year old self, what it is. So I go back and just do all this and you'll be fine. Like, if you just do this, life will change for you. But let me ask you this because, because one of the things in topics I love to talk about, especially on this show, is risk evaluation. And like you said with your wife, like you sat down and talked about that. I want to dive a little bit more into that decision because I think a lot of people are scared to take leaps because they don't want to step out of the unknown from where they are. And I think what the difference between people that become high achievers and people that don't is, are willing to take those steps. So I mean, you briefly talked about it, but really at a macro level, like, how do you evaluate risk for things in your life?
- [41:25]
Peter Mayer
Yeah, I just, I try to think about like, what is the upside? What is it that I'm working towards? Does it fit in to the version of myself that I hope I'm trying to become? It's not all about finance for me. Don't get me wrong. It is much easier when you don't have to worry about bills when they're on auto pay and things like that. But that's not the core of my happiness. You know, I was just as happy slinging drinks, you know, in terms of I had great friends, great family. For me, when I think about risk, it's, it's, it's. What am I at risk of losing if the ideal outcome doesn't happen? Because while I believe you can always learn from mistakes, not everything at all times is in your control. Right. So you have, you have to be okay. You have to be okay with the opposite of the ideal outcome to an extent and kind of be able to convince yourself or trust yourself of if that were to happen, where would I go from there? And if you're, and if you're comfortable with that and if you're okay with it, like make the bet, bet on yourself. It's, you know, like the greatest project in my mind and I've heard it before, so that this is not a quote from me, but it's like, like the greatest project you'll ever work on is yourself.
- [42:43]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [42:44]
Peter Mayer
Right. So, like, take the bets, bet on yourself. But, like, don't be blind to the. To the less than ideal outcomes that could present themselves, too.
- [42:54]
John Gafford
So you just said this. You said the person I'm trying to become are. Do you have a strong vision of the, of where you're trying to go personally, you know, and how often do you revisit that vision?
- [43:04]
Peter Mayer
Regularly? Yeah. So for. So for me, once the day starts, it doesn't end, you know, and so, like, for me, I've got some time in the morning that is, that is my time, right. I get up earlier than my wife. Usually that's the time where nobody's bothering me, the phone's not pinging. So I take that to reflect. Right. I don't. I don't get on social media. I listen to podcasts or I pull out my wellness app and listen to 10 minute meditation and just think about where I want to be. I think I sit on the. On the. We have a porch in golden that looks out at some of the mountains. So I like to sit out there around sunrise with my dog and just stare in the distance and just think, like, what am I putting into my cup for today? Right? If things go wrong, how am I going to react? What are the. What are the one or two things that I get these things done today, it's a win. Everything else is a bonus, Right? And so for me, I don't have some ultimate goal of, of having tens of millions of dollars, like, for me, for me, be great. Right? I would love that. Hundreds. And it's just wild. It's. Some of the. Some of the most unhappy people I know are the wealthiest.
- [44:13]
John Gafford
No, for sure.
- [44:14]
Peter Mayer
I also know very happy.
- [44:15]
John Gafford
Well, because you ask them, you ask them, how much more do you, you know, okay, you're here. What do you want? The answer is always the same. It's just more.
- [44:22]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. Yeah. So. So for me, it's like the ideal outcome of myself is we've built a life that my wife and I really don't ever have to worry about important things again. You know, we can take care of those around us. You know, her siblings, her parents, my siblings, we can help others. Right. Like people say it, but to me, it's like, you know, obviously, you know Shaquille o'. Neal.
- [44:46]
John Gafford
Yeah, of course.
- [44:47]
Peter Mayer
You know, he doesn't go into a grocery store without ever buying something for someone. Like, I love that.
- [44:51]
John Gafford
Yeah, it's awesome.
- [44:52]
Peter Mayer
Like, that's the sort of Stuff that, like wealth can enable you to do so. Like, I love the idea of that. But to me it's, it's being somebody that others respect, being surrounded by people that will always take my call, knowing I'll always take theirs, and then having the financial freedom to not really feel trapped ever. You know, it's like you can make that decision. You can go do what you want and not worry about how you're going to pay your mortgage. Right.
- [45:21]
John Gafford
So with doing something is as big as what you're doing now, what do you attach your identity to?
- [45:30]
Peter Mayer
My identity, professionally, general, in general.
- [45:34]
John Gafford
The reason I asked, the reason I asked that is because one of my favorite things to do, like you're doing a networking event right now.
- [45:40]
Peter Mayer
Yeah.
- [45:40]
John Gafford
And if you walk that floor at Money20 20 and you met a new person, you said, tell me about you. Exactly those phrases. Tell me about you. You would get a 32nd resume. And whenever I'm in a networking situation, I always do this on purpose because it just, I'd rather be memorable than because my memory's terrible. So I need to be very memorable when I meet people. So I say, no, no, no. When they start spelling me the resume. No, no, no, no, no. I don't talk about you. Dude, you married, your kids, where are you from? And people are just, they're just so shocked. Yeah, they're just shocked by that question. Like, like, yeah, I don't care what you do. If I don't like you as a person, I want to know who you are.
- [46:15]
Peter Mayer
I had a boss, Andy, once, that in interviews would start with, what do you do for fun? Yeah, right. And just because he's like, somebody has to like, think of it, right? Or think about it or try and come up with an answer that you want to hear. He's like, couldn't spend six hours in a car with that person. It's not going to work.
- [46:30]
John Gafford
It's my, my, my buddy, the late, great Steve Sims, that just passed away used to have what he called the beer, the beer test. He goes, if I see somebody and they were walking down the other side of the street, if I wouldn't grab, I go have a beer with them. I don't need to be anywhere. I don't need to be around them.
- [46:43]
Peter Mayer
It's a great.
- [46:43]
John Gafford
If I would duck into the street, if I would d store so I didn't have to see them. I don't need to be around them.
- [46:48]
Peter Mayer
It's a great call out. It's, you know, it's funny. So with the Identity piece. It's, I've heard so much over the years, which is hilarious and like corporate to me and a lot, anybody that's been working with me for in recent months or history has heard it. But it's like one thing that's come up over the years when people are like, you're just so authentic. Like, we love it. And I'm like, how is authenticity like a rare trait these days? Right. It's like, I'm like, thank you. But at the same time, isn't it a little bit concerning that that's like a pleasant surprise.
- [47:18]
John Gafford
Yeah. Like maybe that shouldn't be the, shouldn't be the.
- [47:22]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. So my outlier, my identity is like, I keep a very close, close, valuable, like circle of friends that I've been with for a long time. But my identity is somebody who, if I'm calling, you're going to pick up the phone. I'm always going to shoot you straight. The reason so many partners here took our call before we were even live with the product and these are multi, multi billion dollar global companies. It's because every interaction we've had over the years has been done so with transparency. Transparency and integrity. Right?
- [47:53]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [47:54]
Peter Mayer
So if, if we couldn't do something, I wouldn't string them along. I'd say we can't. But like, the next time, the next time I call, you'll take it.
- [48:01]
John Gafford
I learned that very, very early in my work career because I also came in the restaurant, I was just saying, in puddles as well in the restaurant industry. And I was a multi unit manager for Hooters of America early in the, in the, in the early 90s, which was a cool job, didn't make any money. It was a cool, one of my cool jobs in my mid-20s. And I remember my boss called me one time, vice president, company and he was, he was trying to have like a gotcha moment with me. And he goes, so tell me about this. And I was like, oh, well, this is bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I just, just, just lay, I mean, I laid myself on the tracks.
- [48:35]
Peter Mayer
Yeah.
- [48:35]
John Gafford
And he just goes. And I said, this is what I'm doing about it. This is why it'll never happen again. We've already sorted it out moving forward.
- [48:41]
Peter Mayer
Yep.
- [48:42]
John Gafford
And he just goes, that's why I love you, Gafford. You're a bleeder. And I thought, and I've often in my life when people have asked me like, what's the best cop we've ever gotten? I loved that compliment Because I love that it just says, I'm just gonna stick my chin out and just. You're gonna smash me as hard as you can and I'm not gonna squirm. Like it just. I fiction like that slap contest they have now on the chin. Right. Exactly what it is. You just take it on the chin. Because I think honestly, it's almost like a rare quality to have that so many people want to squirm and kind of get out of things. But I love that you said that. That's great. So obviously the vision for the vision for the company is pretty laid out. That road map. Where do you see yourself in like 10 years? Where do you want to be?
- [49:27]
Peter Mayer
Oh, man. Personally, Yeah. I would love to still cheer firefighting. Right. I think we got our. Our house entirely paid off. Wife and I are in a great spot in terms of maybe we've got a passion project outside of work. My favorite thing to do is fly fishing.
- [49:45]
John Gafford
Right.
- [49:45]
Peter Mayer
And so if I didn't have to worry about anything else did.
- [49:47]
John Gafford
You're like the Mr. Colorado.
- [49:48]
Peter Mayer
Oh, yeah.
- [49:49]
John Gafford
You're like, dude, my sister's in Denver. You're like Mr. Colorado. She's the same. Same way.
- [49:54]
Peter Mayer
If it. My. My like dream outcome. Right. Is Float's an incredible success. We've changed the game for how consumers are scored and rated. Right. And so I think our challengers three years from now are going to be the people who took our model and innovated.
- [50:11]
John Gafford
Yeah.
- [50:11]
Peter Mayer
Not the. Not the incumbents on the old model. And 10 years from now, hopefully I've. I'm blessed and lucky enough to have stepped away. And you know, I probably own a fly shop somewhere and you know, all the, all the would be profit is going to the guides so I can have the best ones. And I just get to be in the shop shooting the. And hanging out with the people all day, hearing their stories and real conversations.
- [50:33]
John Gafford
Doing exactly what you want to do.
- [50:35]
Peter Mayer
Exactly.
- [50:36]
John Gafford
Which what I love doing is the definition of success.
- [50:38]
Peter Mayer
Yeah.
- [50:39]
John Gafford
Well, dude, this was a fascinating conversation. I appreciate it so much. If they can. How do they find you if they want to find you?
- [50:45]
Peter Mayer
Yeah. So if they want to find me, they can look on. On LinkedIn. I believe my username's. You can look up Peter Marv at pt mar86. Get float is our handle across socials. Getfloat.com yeah. Then anybody can reach out to me. Peter mvante.com which is our parent company, Avanti. So I still have a Avanti email address, But Peter M ovante.com or peter.mloat.com will be available probably by the time this is released. But I welcome people to reach out. You know, I want to hear from users, I want to hear from potential partners. Even if it's just somebody who didn't graduate college that's trying to figure out how to crack in Love that dude. Let's have a chat.
- [51:26]
John Gafford
I love it. I love it. Well, thanks, Peter, so much. Yeah, guys, listen, that, what an inspiring story, dude. You know, it doesn't matter if you killed your credit, it doesn't matter if you didn't graduate from college, it doesn't matter. None of that stuff matters. Stop telling yourself some lie and go out and build that thing that's going.
- [51:44]
Peter Mayer
To potentially change the world 100%.
- [51:46]
John Gafford
We'll see you next week. Hey, it's John Gafford from the Escaping the Drift podcast. And big news. My new book, Escaping the Drift is coming out November 11th. You can pre order it right now at thejohngaffer.com There are tons of bonuses, tons of giveaways. Get the book. If you are somebody that feels like you might be drifting along, this is for you. If you know somebody that feels like they might be drifting along, this is for you. Available everywhere, all bookstores. Every everywhere, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, the whole nine yards. But pick your copy up right now atthejohn gaffer.com and get a bunch of the awesome bonuses I've thrown out because I promise you, I put my heart and soul into this thing. I want it to help you change your life. Pick it up everywhere. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escaping the drift.com you can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.