Escaping the Drift with John Gafford

Episode Title: Revolutionizing Property Lending with Tim Herriage
Date: September 9, 2025
Guest: Tim Herriage, CEO & Founder of Turnus Lending

Brief Overview

In this episode, John Gafford sits down with Tim Herriage, a serial entrepreneur and the CEO/founder of Turnus Lending. The main focus is how Tim is transforming the fix-and-flip property lending industry by creating an investor-focused, customer-owned hard money lending company that stands apart from institutional finance giants. The discussion stretches far beyond real estate, offering robust insights for any entrepreneur about building resilient businesses, the importance of capital strategy, innovating business models, and ensuring customer experience remains central at scale.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Fix-and-Flip Lending: Asset-Based and Inclusive

• Traditional Model Review: John explains the basics of fix-and-flip lending—where lenders provide funds to purchase and rehab investment properties, usually with some skin-in-the-game from the borrower.
• How Turnus Differs:
  • 100% Financing Available: Turnus offers 100% purchase and rehab financing—unheard of in an industry that typically requires significant down payments (00:00-01:17, 19:01-20:16).
  • No Credit Checks or Appraisals: Lending decisions are based on the strength of the deal, not the borrower's credit or experience (23:04-24:02).
  • Investor-First Ethos: Turnus is owned by the community of customers, not institutional capital (16:13-17:52, 19:01-20:16).

2. Origin Story: From Drifting to Purpose-Driven Disruption

• Entrepreneurial Seizure: Tim shares how being unfulfilled in a billion-dollar executive role pushed him to start Turnus after reflecting on Simon Sinek’s "Start with Why" (04:11-06:22).
• Learning from Failure:
  • Capitalization is the linchpin; many of his businesses failed due to undercapitalization or a lack of a capital growth plan (06:31-08:12).
  • Validate the market—"Just because you have inventory doesn’t mean you have a product." (08:12-09:57).

3. Evolving the Business Model

• Iterative Testing: Tim invested months planning, personally handled every loan process at first, then built the team as the model got validated. "We're on our fourth or fifth set of underwriting guidelines in 19 months because we're always listening to the customer." (10:18-12:16).
• Flexibility in Offering: Turnus is now able to offer multiple loan products (e.g., lower rates for more money down) but won’t abandon the core value proposition that customers love (11:42-12:16).

4. Unique Selling Proposition: Shared Ownership & Customer Alignment

• The "Threefold" Philosophy (Turnus):
  • Make Money: Simplify flipping and let customers also own stock in Turnus.
  • Passive Income: Customers can invest in Turnus notes/funds for mailbox money.
  • Legacy: Help investors build generational wealth (15:16-17:52).
• Customer Ownership: Regulation CF crowdfunding lets even small investors buy shares for as little as $1,000. The goal is for management to eventually own less than half the company, maximizing customer ownership (16:13-17:52).

5. Mission-Driven Innovation & Staying Main Street

• Resisting Institutionalization: Tim emphasizes Turnus’ commitment not to become just another big lender. Their product and governance focus remain on supporting new and everyday investors—"My intention is that Wall Street doesn’t call the shots here." (19:01-20:16, 21:00-22:29).
• Real-World Impact Stories: Example of helping a Georgia firefighter buy his first rental—something big lenders wouldn’t do (20:16-22:29).

6. Scaling Without Losing the Customer

• Tech & Training: Tim is working to replicate his and his brother’s 'deal-sense' through training and software as the company grows (24:04-25:22).
• Main Street Capital: Turnus enables regular investors to buy first-position notes (the way large banks do) and get solid, fast returns—an opportunity traditionally reserved for institutions (25:22-27:55).

7. Entrepreneurship, Capital & Building for Longevity

• Active Investment: Commissions and active income should feed investments and legacy—not just lifestyle (27:55-29:24).
• Exit Strategy & Evolution: Tim envisions stepping aside as CEO in the near future, bringing in professional management to scale while he remains the strategic visionary (29:36-30:32).

8. Customer Experience—SOPs Without Bureaucracy

• Secret Shopping: Both Tim and his wife regularly "secret shop" Turnus and provide direct feedback—“I believe every business owner should secret shop their company consistently.” (32:58-34:30).
• Sensible Process Improvements: Persistent focus on identifying and eliminating bottlenecks and unnecessary complexity to maintain a simple borrowing process as the company grows (35:45-36:54, 36:54-38:06).

9. Revenue & Expansion Opportunities

• Insurance, Fund Management, Tech Licensing: Exploring additional verticals that fit Turnus’s mission and enhance borrower experience (38:13-40:08).
• Events & Education: Collaborations like “Find, Fund, and Fix” with industry leaders to educate and onboard more investors (40:13-41:16).

10. Outlook on the Market & Strategy in Downturns

• Cycle Savvy: Both John and Tim advise caution and strategy in current markets; investors must adjust expectations for profits and risk (50:30-52:07).
• Psychological Factors: Future market sentiment driven by interest rates; expect a refi boom when rates dip into the fives (52:50-54:11).
• Regional Insights: Speculation has over-inflated some markets; success will require adaptability and risk analysis (54:52-56:31).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On starting Turnus:
  “I had an entrepreneurial seizure... I reread Simon Sinek’s book and it really connected me with the business philosophy of understanding your customers’ why and crafting your business around fulfilling that intrinsic need.”
  — Tim Herriage (04:11-06:22)

• Key lesson from failure:
  “The number one thing that’s made my businesses either fail or be so unfulfilling that I even shut them down was poor capitalization strategy.”
  — Tim Herriage (06:31-08:12)

• On innovating vs. following industry norms:
  “Lending is the most commoditized product ever... When those are the first two questions, you’re just commoditized. It’s a race to the bottom.”
  — Tim Herriage (12:50-13:16)

• On customer experience at scale:
  “I believe every business owner should secret shop their company consistently.”
  — Tim Herriage (33:44-34:30)

• On risk in real estate cycles:
  “Hope is not a strategy.”
  — John Gafford (52:07-52:50)

• Big market vision:
  “I see Turnus as a way to take Main street back from Wall street and share it with Main Street.”
  — Tim Herriage (19:01-20:16)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• How 100% financing & hands-off rehabs work:
  [00:00 - 01:17, 43:59 - 44:37]

• Tim’s origin story & Sinek’s 'Why':
  [04:11 - 06:22]

• Lessons from failed startups:
  [06:22 - 08:12]

• Validating product-market fit before scaling:
  [09:57 - 11:42]

• The Turnus threefold philosophy explained:
  [15:16 - 17:52]

• Customer stock ownership and the long-term vision:
  [16:13 - 17:52]

• The importance of scaling technology and knowledge:
  [24:04 - 25:22]

• Letting Main Street investors act as banks:
  [25:22 - 27:55]

• Customer experience and SOP optimization:
  [32:58 - 34:30]

• Market outlook and adaptive strategies:
  [50:30 - 52:50]

Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode is loaded with actionable wisdom for entrepreneurs at all levels—while rooted in real estate, the principles apply across business:

• Purpose-Driven Innovation: Start with customer needs (‘why’), not product features.
• Smart Capitalization: Plan for growth and runway; validate market demand early.
• Iterative Development: Test, tweak, and listen to customers constantly.
• Empowered Customers: Shared ownership creates loyalty—and a viral salesforce.
• Don’t Lose the Human Touch: Successful scaling means process without bureaucracy.
• Market Adaptability: As cycles shift, so must your risk models and strategies.

For those interested in property investment, Tim’s model makes professional-grade resources, financing, and opportunities accessible to everyday investors—potentially shifting industry power structures for good.

For event details or to connect with Tim:

• Social: @TimHerriage on all platforms
• Company: turnus.com

Upcoming events:

• Five Star Conference Workshop: October 1, 2025, Dallas – Full-day sessions on thriving in a down market with industry veterans.

“No matter what business you’re in, you have to understand the language of business is money.”
— Tim Herriage (56:38)

(Note: All ads, intro/outro, and unrelated segments have been omitted for clarity.)