← Estate of Mind — The Art of Selling Luxury Real Estate
Estate of Mind — The Art of Selling Luxury Real Estate
Building Effective Marketing Strategies
00:43:42
In this episode of Estate of Mind hosts Tami Simms and Jack Miller are joined by special guest Will Hayes as they discuss marketing strategies and the importance of starting with clear objectives. Explore how to use the "SMART" framework (Specific, Measurable, Actionable, Realistic, Timely) to guide goal setting. Discover how to balance ambitious goals with realistic expectations, particularly when budgeting for lead generation. We cover the differences between business goals (long-term brand building) and marketing goals (short-term lead generation), from brand awareness to lead generation. We also explore the evolving relationship between digital and print media.
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- [00:00]
Jack Miller
Foreign.
- [00:09]
Tammy Sims
Welcome to Estate of Mind, a podcast series all about motivating, inspiring and educating you in the art of selling luxury real estate. The podcast is brought to you by the Institute for Luxury Home Marketing. I'm Tammy Sims, lead trainer for the Institute and a full time real estate professional in St. Petersburg, Florida for more than two decades. In this episode we're going to explore digital marketing strategies first. Today's podcast is brought to you in part by Real Marketing, the only marketing firm recommended exclusively by the Institute. Real marketing utilizes over 25 years of expertise and their products are built and customized for you to dominate any neighborhood, anywhere. Go to realmarketingforyou.com that's realmarketing, the number four you.com also look for past State of Mind episodes with CEO David Collins as our guest. I'm here today again with my co host, Jack Miller, a 25 plus year veteran luxury agent with Onward Real Estate in the greater Nashville, Tennessee market. And today we have a special guest joining us, Will Hays, who's the senior growth strategist and head of Paid media with Toby Agency, the institute's go to for all things digital digital marketing. So welcome to both of you. We're glad to be here with you.
- [01:34]
Jack Miller
Hi Tammy. Hi, Will. How you doing?
- [01:36]
Will Hays
Nice to see you guys again.
- [01:38]
Tammy Sims
Excellent, excellent. So Jack, before we dig in, when we last spent time together, for those of our loyal audience who may remember, you were navigating into a new space with your brokerage change. And so I'm just curious how your market and your clientele are settling in with the change. I think it's kind of relevant to the conversation that we're having today.
- [02:00]
Jack Miller
Yeah, actually, I think they're all settling in much better than we are from, from their standpoint as far as other brokers in the marketplace and, and with our clients, it's pretty seamless and we've tried to make as such. So one of the things that we've done, Tammy, is, you know, with our print marketing, with our social media marketing, everything we pretty much have been doing, we've kept the framework the same. So for example, if you see an ad that we do in one of the luxury print publications, we're keeping the same basic template and what they're seeing, even the same, you know, headshots and everything, what they're seeing is, is the branding changes only in regard to company name and logo. And we did that intentionally. It's, we wanted to make sure it felt as comfortable and familiar to our clients and other brokers. So it seemed fairly you know, the focus is more on. These are the same people you're accustomed to dealing with. We just have a new name.
- [02:56]
Tammy Sims
Absolutely.
- [02:57]
Jack Miller
Behind the scenes. Yeah, behind the scenes I'm concerned, or my business partner Robert is concerned. It's not nearly as seamless, but we're getting there.
- [03:04]
Tammy Sims
Right. It's kind of like the swan above water looks really great and is kicking like mad underneath. And Will, I saw you, I saw you nodding your head there because I know some of those principles really apply to what you're going to talk about. And so tell us a little bit about yourself, your role in the, the real estate marketing realm.
- [03:27]
Will Hays
Yeah, I've been a digital marketing professional for about 15 years, specializing definitely on the, on the digital paid side, focused on, you know, search with Google and then of course all the social media channels as they've kind of like grown and proliferated across all the media landscapes. So, you know, definitely a lot of expertise in, in how to use these channels to benefit from across, you know, a number of industries. But particularly with the real estate industry, I've kind of niched down and focused, you know, over the last, you know, four or five years working directly with, you know, besides just agents and brokerages, but also within the industry, you know, different partnerships and of course with, you know, ILHM as well. So, you know, a lot of knowledge and a lot of, you know, trial and error within this industry as well to see kind of what sticks, what works. And, you know, excited to be here today. And I like what you're saying, Jack, in terms of, like, I love that idea of keeping the look and the feel of things very similar and then just having just like the, the smallest change because, you know, from the customer standpoint, that familiar, that familiar look, like they see it and immediately resonates. They, they, because it feels familiar. They know it's something and then they're willing to give it a little bit more time and kind of acknowledgement. So that's a very astute and smart, smart move on your part.
- [04:52]
Tammy Sims
And Will, I had mentioned when we talked about this last time that my mother, who has 38 years in the business, For 17 years she was in the same office with the same manager, but the brand name kept changing. And so she would just swap out the little logo at the bottom and her branding was consistent. I think that's something that, that really translates through, through all parts of marketing and branding. Jack, I cut you off. What were you going to say?
- [05:21]
Jack Miller
No, no. Well, I think, I think what's interesting is, you know, for us. And I'm sure this is the case, Tammy, for you and your mom. You know, the company name has changes. It's a significant change that we're going through here. It's a brand new company. We've got 300 top producing agents and brokers here. So that part's wonderful. But what hasn't changed is for our personal brand is still about luxury. And so that hasn't changed at all. So that's why it's easy to kind of, that's the focus is on. We're here in the luxury space within a new framework, a new company. So that's where we try to keep the focus.
- [05:58]
Tammy Sims
Yeah, yeah. Now, well, our institute members have had the opportunity to engage in a webinar series that you've been delivering that's really, really a drill down into the nuances and the how to's of digital marketing. And I don't want to duplicate those, but I do want you to share some high points, if you will, especially for those in the audience that understand the basics and are interested in how to apply them. And so I want to ask you first about the way that you articulate goal setting as smart, if you would, please.
- [06:33]
Will Hays
Yeah. So, you know, just to take even a step further, I actually have a digital marketing, you know, I was an instructor in the past. So one of the frameworks that we would introduce this to students was always called like the Objective first framework. Understand what your ultimate goal is before you start. You know, putting pen to paper and thinking about, you know, the tactics and strategies and, you know, all the executions that you're going to implement. And the best way to kind of describe, you know, how to start this was with this acronym, smart. So create a SMART goal. The SMART being specific, measurable, actionable, realistic. And then the last one is timeliness. Right. We always want to make sure there's a time bound, so it forces us to take action. What I really try to hone in is on, on the realistic side of goals. Right. So when we think about, you know, what can we actually achieve? You know, obviously everybody wants to be flooded with leads. We want to get, you know, the highest number we can possibly, possibly get. But once you start to think about how much it might cost to, you know, acquire not even a lead, but just somebody to your website and then realize, you know, maybe the average conversion rate is 10%. So that means, okay, I need to get 10 people to my website. You start doing simple math and you realize, oh, okay, like in order to even capture, you know, potentially A lead, you know, we're talking about 50, $100. Well then that, that helps me set my, my expectations in terms of, you know, how much am I willing to even spend, you know, at the, at the, at the start to then, you know, you know, go forward and push and try to drive leads. So, best way always to start when we're thinking about any kind of marketing is, you know, what's my ultimate goal? You know, how am I going to judge my performance? And then let's put it, you know, let's put it down on paper and let you be as specific as possible. You know, identify our audience, figure out what's realistic and then, you know, try to go from there.
- [08:21]
Tammy Sims
Yeah. You know, Jack and I have been doing a lot of, a lot of thinking about business planning and I think this comes right into that conversation. And I know Jack's in an interesting spot because they're going to push out their business planning just a little bit because of some of the changes going on. But when we sit down and we talk about measurability, return on investment, and I know from the print media side, ROI looks different, at least for me and probably for Jack. And it's more of that consistency, more.
- [09:02]
Jack Miller
About branding and generating leads. Yeah, exactly.
- [09:05]
Tammy Sims
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so sometimes we measure that in a different way. And I love what you're saying, Will, about social. In order to be effective. Right. You've talked, you've talked about the, the fact that you can't just like throw money at the wall and expect it to work. You have to really look at it and you have to think about what it is that you want. And something that struck me is do you want leads, do you want more business or do you want exposure? So talk a little bit, Will, about the, the difference in those things and like maybe some of the tactics that somebody might engage in.
- [09:40]
Will Hays
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean there's, you know, the way I look at it when I start is, you know, separating the idea of business needs versus the marketing needs. Right. They can be a little bit different. The business might want that, that brand exposure because they're, they're more focused on like, know the long term goal, driving awareness, getting people to understand and feel familiar with the brand so that when they are approached by, you know, an agent, they're, they're more receptive to that, that first sales, that sales meeting and there's a marketing goals where sometimes we're measured more in a vacuum, where it's a, a shorter term investment. We're trying to Generate, you know, something a little bit quicker. So again, coming back to objective first, like what is our ultimate goal? You know, what are we focused on? And then, you know, marketers, we, we like to overuse, you know, certain, certain visuals. So you know, when we're talking about, you know, kind of what you mentioned, we like to think about a funnel approach where the top of funnel would be about, you know, driving awareness, building brand and getting people to, to know, to understand and hopefully love the brand. And you know, those tactics are, are generally about, you know, driving reach, getting engagement and then just getting people to, to, to, to see and become familiar with, you know, who we are as a, as a brand. So on social media that's more focused on, you know, high engaging content, video driven content that, you know, reaches the audience but then also tells a message or point of view, right. What's the point of the brand? It should be very obvious from the content who is being targeted and what the ultimate, you know, objective is in terms of like the audience and then getting them to obviously come down and work through the funnel. And then from there, you know, then we start to work lower in the funnel and that's when we talk about, you know, generating leads, generating sales. Like, how can I get somebody to, to self identify themselves as a potential customer, you know, to raise a hand and then how do I get them to exchange the information? Right. A lot of times, you know, we like to think about either, you know, some form of like lead magnet or, or some offer that we can give them in exchange. And a lot of times, you know, we can get actually pretty creative with those lead magnets where it's not just like, hey, tell me, you know, you're ready to sell, you know, sell your house. You know, a lot of times we can think about it in deeper. One of the most popular ones that came out over the last couple years was like a home value calculator. Right. Understanding that if somebody's looking for the value of their home, they're probably a little bit further in that decision making process. But you know, there's other things that we can think about where, you know, maybe we can put a list of, you know, the top ways to increase home value in the shortest period of time. Like what's the best, you know, renovation designs or the best way to stage a house. You know, people who are getting closer to selling their home, you know, this is going to resonate a little bit further with them so they'll be more willing and more apt to, to, you know, engage with that content and then by doing so they're kind of like self identifying themselves. And that's when we talk about, okay, that's the bottom of the funnel approach. Now we want to really, you know, engage with that customer, that potential customer, and then see if we can, you know, work them further, get them into a sales meeting and then, you know, so on and so forth.
- [12:44]
Jack Miller
Will, I have a question for you. So it's interesting because you talk about things, you know, your, your plan being measurable when you're doing digital marketing. What I'm hearing you say is if you're not looking for specific numbers of leads, that's measurable, of course. But in social media or digital marketing, it may just be exposures and you can track that, you can see how many clicks you've had, how many views you had, whatever. Obviously that's measurable too. That's one of the biggest challenges we've had for years. You know, before digital marketing was available and even still in print media, most, it's a very visual media or a visual industry that we're in. And so as a listing broker, you know, our sellers of course want to see us in social media, for example, but they also want to see themselves, I mean, their, their properties in print. And that's a very expensive form of branding, a very expensive form of advertising. Yet most of us do it in the luxury space. I'm just curious as a digital marketing specialist, what your opinion is in, in the print world and do you see what you do working in tandem with, or do you just see it as antiquated and why are we still doing it?
- [13:56]
Tammy Sims
You know, it's nothing like putting you right on the spot, will there?
- [13:59]
Will Hays
Well, I love it. It's a great question. When I first started, you know, in marketing, I definitely wasn't specialized in digital media. I mean, honestly, when I first started, digital media was just coming up. So we were honestly, you know, at the marketing, we were fighting for scraps. You know, we were lucky to get, you know, 5% of a budget to even run campaigns. So, you know, I've seen it from both sides. You know, I did, you know, print, television, radio, all the traditional forms, even newspapers, if you believe it or not. But I think they, you know, ultimately there's a place for everything and they work in tandem as long as they're executed and there's a strategy behind it that makes, that makes sense. Right. So the same way I'd go about, you know, creating and crafting a digital campaign about, you know, thinking about the audience and trying to hone in on, you know, prospective, you know, customers is the same way I'd go about doing with, with print. Right. The, the one thing with print is we've always, we've always kind of understood and the same thing is with radio and television that, you know, there's this concept of, of wasted spend. We knew that 50% of our market would get targeted or you know, 50% of our spend would go to our, our, our targeted customers. But we also knew that in doing that there was a little bit of a loss there and that of like what the digital marketers tried to like hold up as a flag that we, we were better in terms of targeting. But in, in, in every, every kind of like research or study that I've seen, there's always a correlation between, you know, this, this, this quote unquote integrated marketing approach where people are using multiple touch points and tactics to reach their customer to get them exposed to the brand so that when sales does come through, they're, they're more willing and you know, accept. So you know, there's always been this theory about seven touch points. You know, your marketing has to touch somebody seven times before they're even, you know, it, even, you know, recognize that, that name, that brand and, and then so, you know, just because you're on social media doesn't mean you're always going to get those touch points. Sometimes having a different, you know, a different medium come directly to them, like print, like, you know, ultimately there's, there's little we can do on the digital side to compare with somebody holding a, you know, high quality laminated postcard with your face on it. You know, that's calling out your past sales or, you know, that would resonate to that customer. So like, you know, there's definitely, you know, I would always say value in that. But you know, going back to our, the way we, you know, I approach it in terms of the funnel, you know, there's definitely probably in print, you know, it's probably more of a top of funnel type of approach. Right. It's more about brand development awareness within the market than it is necessarily, you know, generating leads. Obviously, you know, we ultimately want to get there, but it is hard to ask for somebody or really identify, you know, as we talked about that, that they're, they're further down the funnel with, with just print. Right. That's the benefit of digital media is I can get somebody to engage with the piece of content and because of that engagement, I can understand at least where they are in the funnel. And we can't really do that necessarily on print, but it doesn't mean that we can't utilize print for what it's worth, which is getting high quality exposure to potential customers and getting, you know, something in their hand.
- [17:19]
Jack Miller
Yeah. You know. Oh, sorry, Tammy, go ahead.
- [17:21]
Tammy Sims
No, no, please, please. I think both Jack and I are like our, our brains are spinning here. We've got great, great, great ideas and we're taking this down directions. Yeah.
- [17:30]
Jack Miller
And it's interesting because we've, you know, Tammy and I both have been in this industry long enough to have seen print be at the forefront and now see digital be at the forefront. And I think it's fair to say there must, beyond being a relationship between the two and the importance of the two working together, there must be some validity to staying active in print media. Because if you look at all the major brands in the luxury space, whether it's luxury automobiles, jewelry resorts, any pick your, you know, pick the product, they all have a major presence in print media. So there's, and they're spending that big budgets. So clearly they think there's, there's something to be said for brand awareness and print media. And it's just interesting because now our focus is very much so on social media and digital media. And Will, I'll probably calling you later on that night. But it's just always fascinating because I know that our clients, on a one on one basis, they really focus on, they want to see in print. And yet ironically, print is the one part of our budget that is, it's not measurable. We can measure how many households a publication goes to, but we can't measure views because just because it goes in the mailbox doesn't mean the magazine gets opened. And you're able to measure what happens in digital marketing, which I think is terrific. And demographically speaking, same thing, you know, a lot more demographics of who is the one who's, who's, who's doing the clicking in your industry.
- [19:01]
Will Hays
Yeah.
- [19:01]
Tammy Sims
In my mind I'm kind of thinking that you've got print and some of those other more traditional, even, even some direct public facing social media and that sort of thing that's, that's two dimensional. Right. Like I think back, my mother had her first website in 1986. You know what that looked like? It was a static page. Right. With dial up that took an hour to load and it had one picture of her on her brick car phone. Right. And that was the extent of webpage. Right. So there's like, there's there's two dimensional messaging that is that kind brand awareness. But I feel like digital marketing allows the opportunity to really show personality. Like I follow Jack on social media and he loves to share photographs of amazing homes and architectures and spaces and that tells me who he is. I have a sense of his style and his personality. And so I know in some of your courses, will you talk about, you've got, you've got creative, you've got targeting, right? Seeing what resonates with your audience. And I'm curious about your take on that deeper that personality potential as opposed to just a straight offer or a call to action.
- [20:21]
Will Hays
Oh yeah, I love that question. Especially when we're talking about the top of funnel, brand awareness building, engagement. I mean the first thing we say when we talk about brands is you got to have a point of view and that point of view has got to come across. It can't just be, you know, something bland and, and really the best way to do that is, is through, you know, your, your personality. Which ultimately is why I think, you know, the people that are consistent on social media end up being the most successful because you know, it might take them, you know, a couple iterations to realize how to even come across on social media, right? They might be nervous first time they turn that phone around, not thinking they know what to say. But ultimately they become more comfortable and becoming more comfortable, the personality really starts to come through. And ultimately that personality, I mean that's what social media is all about, right? Is being able to engage with real people. So that's what's going to resonate, that's what's going to drive the engagement and get recognition from your audience and ultimately lead to, you know, what our, again, what our goal is, which is for them to recognize us in the market as, you know, a luxury leader or just, you know, as an agent that they can rely on and look to it to be an expert and then ultimately hopefully help sell the home.
- [21:33]
Tammy Sims
Yeah, absolutely. One big point I think is that digital marketing is not just social media, right? You spend a lot of time talking about the difference between behavior, you know, image driven, that is more, more social media and then keywords that are copy driven. And I remember there was a time when you could organically show up first in a Google search, right? And channeling my mother again here some time ago when a lot of this technology was new, she was named one of the top 10 female bloggers in the country. And our content brought us to the top. And if people were trying to find out about what the concert was in the park. They would call us because they thought that we were the ones putting it on. And there was that time when that organic content just really ruled. And now that day is gone. But you talk a lot.
- [22:41]
Jack Miller
I want to tag on to that. It's very interesting, too. I just had a flashback as you were describing, that I remember distinctly our first website would have been probably in 98, I believe, for, for me and Robert at Parks. And I remember distinctly as I looked around at what our colleagues were doing and this trend went on for several years. Will, I'm sure you remember this. In the real estate industry, what agents were trying to do was trying to make their website the portal for all things in their community. And the community can be a neighborhood, it could be the city, it could be the state. And so, for example, in our market, we would see agents and we did the same thing. Your website would be the Tennessee Titans, the Tennessee Predators, the Chamber of Commerce. It's like we were trying to be the portal for all things having to do in Nashville. And it's interesting because as you fast forward to today, we're the exact reverse. Now everybody has completely specialized in what it is they do, and now it's linking to other people, be the source of the source, other websites and connecting resources and being a place to find resources, but not trying to be the spokesperson for all things in your marketplace, which is damn near impossible. That was a challenge in terms of content like your mom was doing. People were doing it for content to get up in the Google ratings or whatever in the search. But at the same time, it was nearly impossible task to try to manage that and then actually be out there in the marketplace doing what we do. So it's been a pretty big change.
- [24:09]
Will Hays
Yeah, you definitely want to be more, more the expert who's guiding people towards the content than the actual source of it. For sure. It's also a very timely kind of like, you know, subject, Tammy, right now, because in, you know, across really all of, especially when you're talking about search and SEO, like this is a big kind of question right now about, you know, what is the best approach? Because with, with, you know, Google specifically, because they own about 85% of search, they've made a lot of variations to the way the search result page even shows nowadays. And, you know, it's, it's changed a lot. Like it used to just be a couple of ads and organic results, but now, especially if they're like localized searches, that means a map's going to show up first and it's going to have content from the map that's going to be there and that's going to push, you know, that'll, that'll dominate 80% of the screen share and then it'll push everything else, the organic results down. If you ask it a question nowadays, it's going to try to answer the question directly, right. Versus, you know, giving you pages that you can go to. It's just going to pull a blurb out and answer the question right there. And then again that's going to push the search results, the organic search results down. And then the last thing obviously is with the AI, you know, again they're trying to understand what you're asking and provide the information right there. So again, three different things that they're doing, all of which are pushing organic results down, which is why it's making it super hard to even think about ranking for organic content and then even having that organic content drive traffic. So a lot of things that we've been doing, especially within this industry is understanding that a lot of searches are localized based searches, which means the maps are going to dominate. So we want to show up on the maps as much as possible and kind of like, you know, rule that like section of Google, knowing that that's going to be one of the gateways and one of the easiest ways for potential customers to find us. The other thing is understanding that, you know, Google does want to tailor its message towards essentially local services. And you know, they understand that a lot of these national brands know how to do SEO and kind of dominated the landscape. And that's not exactly proliferated or turned into, I would say, like high quality results. They know that these local companies, you know, they're the ones that engage with the customers the most, provide a higher quality experience for, you know, Google's customers. So they're starting to allow local, you know, base services to kind of win again in the searches. And it's not driven by, by content. It's actually because you're, you're linking your, your Google my business profile, you're setting it up to win. You're engaging with customers on Google with reviews, messages and Google sees that as a clear signal that you are somebody within the community that is very engaged and authentic and they're starting to reward that. So, you know, it's definitely been a big shift in the industry and it's going to continue and it's one that we're trying to, you know, stay ahead of. And it's, it's, it's a, it's a fun time, but it's also a challenging time if you come from that like, oh, content wins. Content wins. Yeah, a little bit different nowadays.
- [27:14]
Tammy Sims
Yeah, I was pleased to hear you say that on, on one of the webinars that, that there's some thoughtfulness behind the, behind the giant in, in terms of kind of leveling that playing field and also of, of their understanding that the consumer is frustrated if they're, if they're not seeing good content. And I will tell you that I have figured out for at least my own usage that if something is sponsored, that means that they have paid money to be there and they're going to pay more money if I click it. And so if it's a company that I like and I want them to keep their prices down and keep me as a customer, I will scroll down until I find their organic listing. But if it's a company that I don't have a high opinion of and I need to go there for whatever reason, I will click that sponsored and I will smile knowing that they had to pay for that. Click. Right.
- [28:07]
Jack Miller
Oh man.
- [28:11]
Will Hays
I don't know how to take that.
- [28:13]
Tammy Sims
Well, you know, it's kind of, kind of the thing about the personality and the perception and, and, and all of that. All of that.
- [28:21]
Jack Miller
I have a question. Will or in an entirely different arena here, but still digital. It's where digital meets print. So one of the interesting things that there's been a technology around for many, many years that remained largely untouched by our industry and most industries as far as retail, but became widely used during COVID and that was a QR code. Suddenly everything was about a QR code to keep people from touching menus and touching pieces of paper and whatever else. And so I remember we used QR codes, gosh, probably 20 years ago when came out and we would stick them in magazines and nobody knew what to do with them trying to. And so we dropped the whole, dropped it because it was too hard to try to educate and, and use that technology. And we're trying to make that leap from, from print to digital and the idea then and it's still the idea today. And again I'm going back on print. When you're doing these really, you know, high end luxury publications, white space is valuable. You want to see images that are luxurious and you want to see textures and colors and things that look like you gotta have it. But if you fill it up with a bunch of words then it looks junky, it starts to look like a used car. Ad okay, so a QR code allows you to bypass all that and drop a QR code where they can look at the picture and hold their phone over the QR code and go to a website or whatever else. One of the challenges we've had is the QR code itself feels almost like you're slapping a barcode on your $7 million home. It, it doesn't really feel good, but it's real functional. Do you have any thoughts on the use of QR codes in the luxury space? What, any, any feedback you've heard?
- [30:05]
Will Hays
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, when we, you know, we started talking about it a little earlier in terms of like, the measurability of print and how we would go about doing that, and, you know, one of the two ways and, and kind of, you know, that we've always thought about it is how do I measure redemption? I either get somebody to bring that, you know, that piece of content in as the form of like a coupon or some kind of redemption offer, or, you know, I get them to, like you said, scan a QR code and get, and get online. And of course I can measure that. You know, that person came from that QR code just because of, you know, a simple tracking. But ultimately the QR code, I think people, people understand its usage and I don't think it necessarily has that, that negative connotation, but ultimately also comes down to how you use it. Like, what's the point of the QR code if, if it's just slapped there with no explanation, no like, call to action, you know, the, the usage of it's going to be real low. But if there's like, and I love doing this, having like a cliffhanger where it's like, here's a tease of content imprint in your hand. I'm giving you like a top five places, but I only give you three. You got to scan the QR code for the last two. Well, that'll, that'll drive engagement. But it's also, they know they're going to get a benefit from it, right? So it's, it's not necessarily that the user thinks it's, you know, some kind of scheme. It's, it's, it's, it's offer, it's a benefit to them by, you know, again getting to the website and then again continuing with the, with the content. So, you know, you can use the QR code to your benefit if there's a strategy behind it. And, you know, more than not, it's just, what can I give to the customer that's going to make them want to use it, right? If it's just, hey, here's more photos of the same thing you're looking at. Not necessarily going to do you any good, but if it's like, you know, here I can see you're on a journey, here's like the next step in that journey, here's some more valuable content, here's a value add, you might see a lot more engagement with it. And I think it'll resonate and people will appreciate that. And especially if the experience when they get to the site, you know, has the kind of same look and feel, it feels luxurious, it feels high end. I don't think that they're going to come across as thinking it's, you know, something cheesy or low brow, you know.
- [32:13]
Tammy Sims
That makes me think, well, I think it's a perfect explanation. But it also reinforces a concept that you say a lot when you're, when you're instructing and that is that if you've got a call to action, whether it's a QR code or a hot link or whatever, that you need to have very specific and appropriate landing pages for those calls to action. And so what you were just describing, if somebody wanted to find out more information about that $7 million property, right. That QR code is going to drop them in an immersive experience, more than likely about the property. And ironically, as we talk about all of this brand positioning, messaging, all of that, I am in the process. I have had architect plans done to do an addition to my house and also to create an adu. And I'm at the point where I have to, I have to, I'm getting quotes from some builders and that sort of thing. And so there is, on my desk right here, there is a postcard that I saved from going in the garbage because it is a builder that has built a reputation as being the go to for ADUs. Right? And so they're hitting me at the moment, they've positioned themselves as a brand. They're hitting me with a call to action at the moment when I am ready for that. And they have here, it says whether you need more space for family or friends looking for extra rental income and accessory dwelling unit is great option for you. Scan this QR code to get in contact with us about starting your ADU journey. That is such a specific call to action. And I have it here on my desk and I am prepared to scan that QR code. And I have the expectation that I am going to land on a page that is specifically designed for, for, for what I want to know after reading this, right. It's not just going to be like a sign up for more information. It's going to be a what are you looking for? What are your motivations? Right. So they've just accomplished that from a broader sense and I'm seeing them on my social feed and all of that. So it's that nice combination as we've been talking about print, digital messaging, positioning and the call to action. So I've just been chuckling inside that this whole circle has happened and it's sitting here on my desk. But we'll talk a little bit more about those specific types of landing pages. Right. So you can do the digital media, but you gotta, you gotta send them somewhere.
- [34:47]
Will Hays
Yeah, no, I love it. I mean it's like Digital Marketing 101 with that postcard. Understand the customer's pain points, understand, you know, what's going to resonate and then put the proper message in front of them. And then ultimately, you know, we've been our, you know, digital marketers have known for, for years that specific landing pages that match the message, match the offer, will always outperform any general page that you're going to send traffic to. So our recommendation, when we're doing any kind of, you know, campaign or execution as much as we can, obviously, you know, there is, there is some constraints, you know, whether if it's a single person has to run everything, it's a little bit harder to do this, you know, multiple iterations of landing pages. But in all honesty, landing pages and a specific page based off of the campaign will always outperform a general page in every instance. And you know, this has been studied multiple times across different industries, different executions, and we've seen wide numbers in terms of like, increases in performance, in terms of like driving leads or driving cost per acquisitions down. But it's always, it's always a very big net gain when you can use a specific landing page that essentially is tailored to, you know, the offer and then that message matches where the audience is. Right. So, you know, as much as we can, we try to get very specific with the pages. Obviously with the landing page too, it's a little bit, it helps us design the page for conversions. Right. Because if we're getting them to that page, there's a purpose that we're, you know, there's a purpose in that. And then we're trying to get them to, you know, either exchange their information for content, to purchase something to, to sign up for more information, whatever it may be. But like, we can build the page with that purpose versus, you know, a homepage is more like you're walking into a grocery store or, sorry, I would say even like a retail store. And it's like, here's.
- [36:44]
Tammy Sims
Oh, let's go Whole Foods. Right? Let's go Whole Foods. Right. We'll be, we'll be high class.
- [36:48]
Will Hays
Like, here's everything I offer. So it's a gateway to you, get you in any single direction. Right. Well, with landing page, generally speaking, we know why they clicked or why they got to that page. Right. So we don't have to go through that whole process of like, oh, here's everything I offer and lay it all out and get them confused and to make them not quite understand what to do next. Like, we can be very specific, tailor that message, put the offer the content right in front of them. And that's why you're generally going to see a lot more conversions and a lot more success with, you know, tailored landing pages.
- [37:18]
Tammy Sims
Absolutely. Makes perfect sense to me. But you also made a point about individual real estate. Professionals may not be able to tackle this all themselves. So if you had to give some advice, as we are getting on in our conversation, about how somebody could reach out, like in their own marketplace or maybe they want to engage Toby, you know, a larger company, what would be the first step for somebody who wanted to hire someone to assist with social media.
- [37:48]
Will Hays
Yeah.
- [37:49]
Tammy Sims
Or digital marketing.
- [37:50]
Will Hays
You could always reach out to us. We have, we can take that on. But, you know, ultimately, I would say even before they do that, you know, they, they would probably want to, like I mentioned before, is think about, like, what would be the ultimate goal? Because there are a lot of people out there that can do, you know, social media and you run ads for you that. And I don't want to say they're disingenuous, but they'll wait for you to kind of like, dictate. Obviously in most instances, you know, you're a real estate professional, you're not a digital marketer. Right. So you don't necessarily know what the right execution is and you're relying on their expertise and they're kind of waiting for you to dictate strategy because it's kind of a safer approach and that's not really the best way to, to win. So, you know, ultimately understand what it is that you want to achieve and then, you know, that's first step. And then, you know, try to engage people that, you know, just like we do with when we Talk about focus on, you know, luxury, real estate, luxury market. Try to find people that have a focus on, you know, real estate and focus within the industry and have expertise or at least have, you know, they've done it before. Right. They can show you case studies or they can at least show clients, because every industry is a little bit different. So, you know, understanding the nuances and, you know, how you might want to approach the, the potential customer. It varies, you know, again, from every industry, and there's definitely a different way to go about it within, you know, the real estate market.
- [39:15]
Tammy Sims
I have a question.
- [39:17]
Jack Miller
If somebody is, whether it be you, one of your competitors, if there's an agent out there who's in considering engaging someone who provides digital services like yourself, and they come to you and say, hey, we're very interested, and could you provide references? Is it appropriate to ask for references of other agents, perhaps in other markets or whatever that this particular company has done work for?
- [39:40]
Will Hays
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I mean, it never hurts to ask, right? You don't, you don't know if they're going to deliver some of that information. A lot of times what, you know, we do in the marketing side is we try to produce case studies ahead of time or just have those prepared so that it's a little bit smoother of a handoff instead of, you know, bothering a client. I can just give you an example of work that we've done that's real life that you can, you can see, you can engage with. So that's generally from the marketing side, how we would approach that. But, you know, it never hurts to ask. It's always good to, you know, ask about references and see, you know, what's out there. Yeah.
- [40:19]
Jack Miller
Let me tell you why I'm asking that question that way. Here's why I'm asking the question. And actually, in your line of work, it's a little different because you can, you can show case studies, you can show samples of social media and, and direct people to Instagram pages or whatever, it's when lead services contact us in the field. And it happens every day, multiple every day.
- [40:38]
Will Hays
Oh, my God.
- [40:39]
Jack Miller
Throughout the year. I mean, they just wear us out. They put the biggest. Give you the biggest pitch you can possibly imagine. And to date, every single one, when I ask for references, will say, you know what our policy is, we don't provide references, it's confidential. And also find the vast majority of them would not have good references. So. So I guess the question, the way I'm framing it that way, is how do you find somebody good in your field. What's the best way to evaluate?
- [41:08]
Will Hays
Yeah, I mean, that's a. That's a loaded and a tough one. I mean, ultimately, it's the same way that you would evaluate any service. Right. The best that you can is, you know, try to. Try to speak to them and try to gauge their. Their abilities, try to get as much information about, like, their historical performance as you can. You know, you can obviously do your own research, but, you know, unfortunately, there are a lot of actors in this. And again, I'm not going to say people are out there to try to steal money from you. They're trying their best, too. But, you know, some people are just better at their job. Some offers and some products are better served for, you know, for an agent. So, you know, the best way I would say go about it is the same way that we would do it in the real estate industry is ask for referrals. Find out what other people that are doing that are. That have been successful. You know, that's why, you know, it helps to be in a network like IHM where you can reach out to people who are obviously sharing the same experiences and be like, you know, do you have any referrals? Or how have you, you know, generate success and to start having those conversations. And you'll find rather quickly that the people that are doing well are more willing to pass.
- [42:11]
Tammy Sims
Absolutely. And, you know, we could keep this up all day. I. My mind is spinning. But as we reach the end of our time today, I want to thank you, Will, very much, and of course you, Jack, for sharing with us today and sharing with the audience. And I hope that all of our institute members who are in the audience will take advantage of the webinar series that they can access through their member portals because it is deep and rich and that those in our audience who aren't members will look for opportunities to expand their digital presence and find ways to make their marketing truly effective rather than just expensive. And so thank you all so much for joining us on this episode of Estate of the Art of Selling Luxury Real Estate. If you're interested in learning more about the Institute, you can find more@luxuryhomemarketing.com if you like what you just heard, please share it with a friend. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review this podcast. And if you've got a hot topic that you'd like us to discuss in a future podcast, feel free to let us know. Send an email to infoluxuryhomemarketing.com thanks for listening.