← Estate of Mind — The Art of Selling Luxury Real Estate
Estate of Mind — The Art of Selling Luxury Real Estate
How Design Shapes the Luxury Real Estate Experience
00:50:38
In this episode of Estate of Mind, our hosts bring in special guest Laura Thurman as they explore how thoughtful design elevates the luxury client experience. From staging and presentation to long-term partnerships with designers, discover how top agents are using design to attract affluent buyers, strengthen relationships, and add value beyond the transaction. Learn why collaboration between real estate professionals and design experts isn’t just aesthetic—it’s strategic. If you’re looking to stand out in competitive luxury markets, this conversation is packed with insights you can apply to your business today.
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- [00:01]
Laura Thurman
A lot of people pick a home based on location, right? Let's just be honest. Yes, it's aesthetic, but aesthetics can change, right? I can come in and wave my wand and change it up, but they want the location, they want the school district, they want proximity to work, whatever that is. You should surround yourself with what you love personally. And again, when the next buyer buyer comes to purchase their home, they're going to look at both what does it look like from the outside, what's the neighborhood that it's in and the things inside can, can change for them when it's their turn.
- [00:29]
Tammy Sims
Today's podcast is brought to you by Interlux Auctions. Your solution to guarantee competitive offers on your luxury listings with no compromise to commission. Visit InterLuxe.com today to find out more. That's I N T E R l u x e.com welcome to a State of Mind, a podcast series all about motivating, inspiring and educating you in the art of selling luxury real estate. The podcast is brought to you by the Institute for Luxury Home Marketing. I'm Tammy Sims, lead trainer for the Institute and a full time real estate professional in St. Petersburg, Florida for more than two decades. In this episode we're going to start a conversation about having a competitive edge through partnerships and relationships with relevant luxury service providers. Today our focus is on interior design and the luxury market. Joining me is my co host, Jack Miller, a 25 plus year veteran luxury agent with Onward Real Estate in the greater Nashville, Tennessee market. Jack's going to introduce our special guest today.
- [01:39]
Jack Miller
I sure am. We're really, really excited to have with us today Laura Thurman. Lara's with Thurman Design Studio and she has been working with one of my clients here in the Nashville market. And, and I got to know Laura recently and have seen her work up close and personal and was really impressed and impressed with her personally. So Laura, thank you and thank you for joining us today.
- [01:59]
Laura Thurman
Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.
- [02:02]
Jack Miller
Yeah, for sure. So before we get into our dive into the topic, tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of what the path that you took that led you into the interior design world.
- [02:13]
Laura Thurman
So I'm from LA originally Los Angeles, California and I have kind of always had an affinity for design even at a young age. I think my mom used to say I would always rearrange my room and constantly shifting things. I was actually a dancer in my previous life, as it were, for 10 years and design was always like plan B. And then once kind of college hit, I had to Make a choice. Am I going to go the dance route or am I going to go the interior design route? And so I decided to just let dance be a hobby and pursued interior architecture. I got my degree in Burbank, California, and I worked for a few firms out there first, and then I moved to Nashville. Same thing. I kind of got my feet wet and worked for a few firms, and then I went out on my own, and I've had my own firm now for about 10 years.
- [03:01]
Jack Miller
That's wonderful. That's really wonderful. You know, in the luxury space where Tammy and I and so many of our colleagues work and our listeners work as well, we're often, you know, meeting with interior designers and interacting with interior designers in a variety of settings, you know, with our clients. Tell us a little bit about your personal sense of style or do you keep that a blank slate and wait to hear more about your clients sense of style?
- [03:32]
Laura Thurman
I think we all as designers have a style that we resonate with personally, and some, you know, kind of portray that in their business and others kind of leave it up to the aesthetic of the client. For us, I say I'm very much influenced by world travel. I like to get out as much as I can. What architecture and design looks like abroad versus in the US Is totally different. Right. And so I like to kind of say that we have a global aesthetic filtered through a modern lens. I live, you know, in Tennessee now, but I'm from la, so LA typically would have kind of cleaner, maybe a softer palette, and I have, you know, have an interjection of color and texture. So I'm not trying to recreate my home for a client. I'm really interested in creating what their dream is. But it does have a spin of what I'm drawn to naturally. Right. And therefore the clients that work with us are kind of also drawn to that esthetic. Yeah.
- [04:31]
Tammy Sims
That kind of reminds me as I was meeting with a client earlier today, I knew by the stack of materials on the table that she was interviewing a number of. A number of other real estate professionals. And so I made the point of pointing out that, you know, I'm glad that you're meeting with others and ultimately part of your decision is going to be whether we. Whether we have a connection and we feel like we would be able to get along very well. And I think part of that is adapting to one another. And I think that may be maybe kind of similar in your world, Laura, of, you know, being chosen because you have some commonality.
- [05:12]
Laura Thurman
Yeah, I think it's A really intimate thing, what we do. I think, you know, I take our job very seriously. I don't think it's only about beauty and pretty things. It's about function. It's about understanding that you are in someone's sacred space, as we call it. I mean, what's more important than home? I think we've all learned that after Covid. Right. You're just stuck at home and staring at the same things over and over again. So it's a big deal. It's where people come to unwind and sort of rejuvenate. And so, yeah, you want to have a good synergy with the designer. Just like you were saying how the other person had a stack of papers. You probably want to speak to a couple. And I think it's a combination of you should be drawn to their work, you should be on to their portfolio and what you see of, of their design esthetic and then them as a person. Because it is intimate. I always say, like, I'm in your bed and I'm in your pockets. Like, right, I'm in your bed, I'm in your home and I'm in your deep in your wallet, like in your pockets. I'm, I'm spending your hard earned money. So those are, those are intimate things. And so you want to make sure you have a connection, that there's personality is jiving, that you can sense the level of trust is there and then that you like the work that you're drawn to the designs that they' already done based on their portfolio.
- [06:25]
Jack Miller
I think I love it. The level of trust is interesting because that's one of the things I think we have in common with you, Laura, is that, you know, not many business professionals are walking through their clients bathroom and their closet. Yep. And all their, their personal spaces in the place where they hang with their kids. And you know, so I mean again, in the luxury world we're going into, you know, were going into their wine collections and some of the really safe rooms and spaces that people don't normally even know exist in some of these, in some of these residences. So it is a very intimate relationship and it's one, it is very much based on trust. I think it's interesting when, when I first looked at your portfolio, Laura, I think, and I think I've had some stereotypes, I've often thought of interior designers having a brand that was closely aligned with one style. And I know that we often think of architects that way. You think, okay, I want to do a modern contemporary, you know, a California Contemporary. There are certain architects, you know, that this is. That's really their lane, and they do. That's their thing. And I think I've often thought of designers being that way too, where they're. They're less about meeting the clients where they are in their sense of style and more about the clients finding an interior designer that. That mirrors their sense of style. When I look at your portfolio, I see a variety of styles, and I'd love to hear you talk about that a little bit. Is that typical for most designers to really to be able to bring a variety of styles to their clients? Or do you think designers often have a particular style that. That's. That's where they focus, pretty much live in? That's that place.
- [08:13]
Laura Thurman
I think you have both, truly. I do. I think when you look at maybe, maybe the older generation of designers, they do seem to be very locked in on an aesthetic. They're known for it. You can. You can spot the image, and I can know it's a Bunny Williams project. Right. Just by looking at the image. I don't need to see her name. And so that sort of creates this, you know, thread throughout their body of work, throughout their life of work. And they run with it, they love it, they stick with it. But I think there are some that have facets of their work that is consistent, but the style can kind of move. So for us, I feel like color is very important. I think most of our clients come trust for our use of color, whether it's bold or a little more subdued. You're not going to see a lot of monochromatic design. In our esthetic, you might see something a little more traditional, a little more transitional, maybe something a little more kind of global, traveled, inspired. But you're not going to see a lot of, like, white on cream on beige on more white. You're just not. That's not really. That's definitely not my thing. I'm not saying I can't do it. But again, you. You attract what you put out.
- [09:19]
Jack Miller
Sure. Yeah.
- [09:20]
Laura Thurman
Big part. Right. So whatever work you're putting out there that, you know the potential client is looking at, that's what they're going to attract. I think it's the same for you guys. The more listings you see in whatever publications or advertorial work, I'm assuming that's the type of houses that this realtor sells.
- [09:36]
Jack Miller
That's exactly right. I tell agents that all the time. I say be careful. When you're promoting properties. You are, whether intentionally or not, you're Creating and reinforcing your brand in your career. And so if you're. If you're trying to be the waterfront specialist and suddenly you're throwing farms and trailers and stuff.
- [09:54]
Tammy Sims
Right? Yeah, yeah. Focus on publicizing the. The type of work that you want more of.
- [10:00]
Jack Miller
That's right. It can confuse the audience. Well, what about. So I'm curious, how does the role of architecture play into your. What you're doing, Laura, as a designer and when you're trying to pull your client's sense of style and those two things together? Because I've seen in the past, I've had listings before where I've had clients in a real traditional home, and yet they have a very contemporary aesthetic, and they bring a designer and do something ultra contemporary and a very, you know, traditional architecture. And it always concerns me as a real estate broker about. Down the line. So how do you balance those things? How do you advise your clients?
- [10:41]
Laura Thurman
I think it's a good question because it is a challenge. And I think as properties get older, as they age, it becomes even harder. It's one thing to build from the ground up, then you can make it whatever you want. Right. But if you're buying a property, you're moving into an existing setting, especially here in Tennessee, I think the architecture thing changes from state to state. Right. That you could kind of have a known look from one state to another. But I don't know. I just personally don't like to back the clients into that design corner. Like, I feel like you pick this home. A lot of people pick a home based on location, right? Let's just be honest. Yes, it's aesthetic, but aesthetics can change, Right. I can come in and wave my wand and change it up, but they want the location, they want the school district, they want proximity to work, whatever that is. And so while you may have, you know, chosen a more traditional home, if your aesthetic is a little more cleaned up, a little more streamlined, I feel like it just. It only rings true that that shows on the inside, and we can do things on the out on the exterior to sort of upgrade it to align to a certain extent. Because obviously we're dealing with hoas, right? There's sometimes there's no way around that. That's its own challenge. But I think that you should surround yourself with what you love personally. And again, when the next buyer. Buyer comes to purchase their home, they're going to look at both, what does it look like from the outside? What's the neighborhood that it's in, and the things inside can Change for them when it's their turn. So it's. It is a. It is a. It's a juggle, for sure, because I have clients that say just what you said. I mean, we bought this super traditional home, but we're really more of, like, a transitional family. I mean, we just don't live, you know, And I just say, okay, well, let's look at what we have as a foundation, and then let's, you know, kind of modify, adjust a little bit. But at the end of the day, you should surround yourself in the design aesthetic that you love, no matter what the outside looks like.
- [12:30]
Jack Miller
Yeah. One of the things we've seen is a trend, Tammy. I don't know if you see this in your market or not. Do you have a lot of older historic homes in your market?
- [12:37]
Tammy Sims
We do. We have. Most of our housing stock is either very late 1800s, early 1900s. Then we do a skip, a hop, skip and a jump to 40s and 50s, and then a jump to some 90s, unfortunate 90s stock, in my personal opinion. And then we've got the, like, early 2000s. Like, we.
- [12:58]
Laura Thurman
We.
- [12:59]
Tammy Sims
Because we're built out and it's all infill.
- [13:01]
Jack Miller
Right.
- [13:02]
Tammy Sims
We haven't had, like, a natural progression of years going on.
- [13:06]
Jack Miller
So that's exactly where I was going with this. Yeah. It was urban infill, because to Laura's point, a lot of people in our market purchase homes in the. What we call the urban core, close to downtown. There's all this desire to be close to downtown Nashville, because there's a lot happening in our downtown, both for tourists and for locals. And as a result, we got folks buying a lot of older and historic homes and sometimes in historic overlays where you cannot change the exterior, very limited to what you can do on the exterior. And I've seen people go in and do a completely contemporary interior design where they're ripping out traditional staircases and putting in cabling, you know, or glass, and it's a real contemporary. That's. That's hard for me. I'm a little bit of a purist when it comes to architecture.
- [13:50]
Laura Thurman
And so when you're getting that. That historic. Yeah. I do think that there's some preservation that should happen there.
- [13:56]
Tammy Sims
There's got to be a lot. Right. Like, there's got to be some intrinsic appreciation of the style that you're buying.
- [14:02]
Jack Miller
And that hurts my heart a little.
- [14:04]
Laura Thurman
Yeah. And I think that that's where, like, a good designer should be able to come in and say, let's see how we can, like, meld. Meld this together a little more. It may not be perfectly seamless, but there's a lot. That historic foundation as. And level of detail. I mean, that is so costly to recreate now. Right. So that, like, foundation, if you have that there, then there are ways to come in and sort of elevate it to a more sort of modern or transitional esthetic without it being so harsh. But, yeah, it's. It's a preference thing. I think. It's an individual. It's a preference.
- [14:40]
Tammy Sims
I have a question. It made me think of the fact that in some of those very traditional neighborhoods, sometimes it's not necessarily the aesthetic, but sometimes it can be floral plants that are challenging. And there are a number of designers in my marketplace who reach out to realtors and say, please let us come with you to your showings so that we can help people understand what they could do. And. And I'm kind of torn. Sometimes that feels too salesy, and sometimes it feels helpful. Do you have any thoughts on that?
- [15:18]
Laura Thurman
I have some thoughts and disclaimer. You can cut this out later if you want to. In my experience, there is sort of a fine line between the role of a realtor and the role of a designer. And I think depending on the market, sometimes these lines get really blurred. And from as the. As the receiving end on the design side, it can be a challenge when a realtor is what I might interpret as overstepping as far as they're sharing about trends and what can and can't be done to the house. I feel like it would be helpful for the consumer to know what the possibilities are ahead of time. I think to talk through some of that is actually really helpful. That could really solidify the deal. Or not. Not in a bad way. Even for the realtor, it just might mean that this is not the right house for them. Based on their lifestyle, how they intend live in the home. A lot can be changed. Everything has a price tag, right? So I think some of those realities would be. Would be really helpful for people to know earlier on rather than after the fact. Like, they fell in love with the location or the fountain, what we're starting out with, but, man, we got another $250,000 to put into it. Whoops. Didn't really account for that. Or, you know, people love windows, right? This is a perfect example. Oh, the more natural light and. Okay, that's all great. It. Has anyone thought about what it costs to. To dress those windows, to put shades, you know, drapery. I mean, that's like a big investment right there and there's really no way around it. Either you're living in a fishbowl or you're not. And so some of those things I think would be helpful to kind of talk about earlier on. I think it's just, I think it's a, it's a synergy thing. I think there should be a mutual respect between like a designer and a realtor. Sort of where our lanes merge and where they don't and absolutely just help to support one another rather be. It's not even competition, but you know what I mean? Rather than just sort of crossing over a lane that's really your expertise and that could be kind of convoluted or confusing to the buyer or the client.
- [17:27]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [17:27]
Jack Miller
I find that it's really interesting because as I meet a lot of our fellow agents and brokers in the marketplace, one of the things I always appreciate are those realtors and in the luxury residential world who are recognize the value they bring by bringing in the right partners. For example, an interior designer. We have clients who ask us, hey, who are some of the better interior designers in your marketplace? Who can you introduce me to? Who's a great landscape architect, a pool builder. But you know, on and on the list goes. And so I love to bring the right people to the table.
- [18:01]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [18:02]
Jack Miller
But I stay in my lane. I love when I see other brokers doing the same thing. One of the most annoying things I think you were hinting at earlier, you're not going to offend us. By the way. Laura just put it all out there.
- [18:11]
Tammy Sims
We are pretty thick skinned for sure.
- [18:13]
Jack Miller
Yeah. But you know, I've heard, I've seen brokers get in the equation and they're trying to be an expert in financing, they're trying to be an expert interior design and architecture and all these things. And like, not that we can't have our ideas. We do, but I do think it's important to respect our partners, let them do their job. And occasionally I have an interior designer say to me, what are your thoughts on how this might impact resale five years or 10 years down the line? What are you or the client may ask me ask that in front of the interior designer. And I always try to always, you know, preface. What I'm saying is I'm, I'm only offering this from the realtor's point of view because you're asking the question. But I don't want to ever step on the toe of the designer or, or get in their way of doing what they do, I think it's really important that we bring those relationships to the table and then we honor the relationships too. David, you.
- [19:00]
Tammy Sims
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I have a particular question, and it relates to wall coverings, right? So we go through these phases.
- [19:14]
Laura Thurman
They're here to stay, girl. They're not going anywhere.
- [19:16]
Tammy Sims
I know, I know. But where my question is going is a little bit earlier we were talking about the fact that you can change aesthetics and you can have your design interior and the next person gets to change it. But when it comes to wall coverings, especially in the high end, those can be unexpectedly expensive to change. And it's very different than your textiles and other types of furnishings. And so I wonder what your thoughts are on that, because that is something that is so, from my perspective, is so perturbed, particular to the person and also very, very related to trends at the time. But it's something that is a really big deal to, to change.
- [20:14]
Laura Thurman
I still like to see it because I think it's just another expression of materiality. It's why people gravitate toward, towards it because it's something else other than just paint. As transformative as paint can be and as inexpensive as it can be, you know, paper is kind of the next thing. And there are different, there's a wide variety, you know, from temporary to pasted to super high end laser cut. I mean all the things, but it is personal. But again, I still just go back to if you really think you're going to live in your home for seven plus years, that's your space to invest in. And you know, I, I'm coming also from a. I might have a slightly different angle than some of my colleagues because I'm married to a residential real estate appraiser. And so when it, when we're talking about the value, like what sells, what affects a home, what doesn't, like, I kind of have the pulse on that, right?
- [21:07]
Tammy Sims
Oh my gosh, I can only imagine your dinner conversations.
- [21:11]
Laura Thurman
Yeah, yeah. I mean, the home cc's, let me tell you. I mean, we both, we kind of see different things and then we kind of come back. But ultimately I don't think a wallpaper will make or break a sale. I think it's something that people think about, like, oh, I don't love that paper, I gotta change it. Okay. That there's an investment, but it's also an opportunity. It's also an opportunity to replace that paper with something that speaks to you and kind of carry on then your own aesthetic in the home. And I Feel like in the luxury market, it's kind of expected, to be honest. I think there's some. Maybe there's, you know. Right. Some, like, expectation there. Like, I mean, come on. Again, it's another type of luxury. It's not a necessity to have wallpaper. It's a luxury. And you can go super premium and over the top. And so I think it's also a way to be, you know, for being honest, kind of showy. Like, there's some. Yeah. That, you know, is crazy, insane. Like, you. You don't need to be professional to know that that was some serious money.
- [22:08]
Tammy Sims
And. And there's, like, competitions. So I do a lot of work in downtown condos, and. And there's, like, competition. Who has the most expensive wall finishes from the most exotic place? And even a condo that just closed week before last, that I was fortunate enough to have clients come in, and they brought their designer, and they're from the. The Midwest, the northern Midwest, you know, kind of suburban Chicago kind of thing. And they've brought their designer in to do this. And. And he was kind of taken aback because the comm in this condo have a fancier, more exotic wall covering than he chose for his clients. And he was, like, going all the way to the moon. And so it was like, well, maybe we should rethink this right now. I can spend more money if I. If I. If I need to. It was kind of interesting. It was all about the wall coverings.
- [23:11]
Laura Thurman
And there's something to be said just about wall coverings in general, because I still have a handful of clients, even on the luxury scale, sometimes they have trepidation. They think it's still grandma. They still. They're still having some residue of the past. And it's like, we are so past that, guys. There's so many wonderful things, so many options out there, and that's really. You know, a good designer's job is to sort of deduce it all down and find something that speaks to the client.
- [23:34]
Jack Miller
So let me ask you a question, too. Are you seeing whether it's here in our market and what other designers are doing in addition to what you're doing, or perhaps going to trade shows or conferences? What kind of design trends are you seeing? What are we seeing on the horizon? What should we expect to be seeing? I'm just curious that we've certainly since taken off talk. We've certainly seen lots of trends go.
- [23:57]
Tammy Sims
Right. And I was just about to ask Laura what is out. Right.
- [24:01]
Jack Miller
Let's start with what's in what's in? What's coming out? Yeah, yeah.
- [24:06]
Laura Thurman
What's in. I think what's in for sure, is warmer tones. I think we were all living in this gray. Gray for a long time. I think that that has had its moment, and it's pretty much gone. I think there's a. There's just this. This longing for warmth in a home. And so whether that's richer saturated colors or whether it's leaning into the neutrals, but in the more tan chocolate, you know, the mauvy greens, like, I think that's really here to stay. And if you think about it, this all hearkens back to the past, right? These are 1800s. Some of this. It's cyclical. Just like every creative design, fashion, graphics, interiors, they cycle. And so I think that is all here to stay. I don't think jewel tones will ever go away. Your emeralds, your wines, your dark blueberry navy color, like, those are here to stay again because they're timeless. They. They. You can see them in period movies or period shows. Like, they help you feel like you're. You. You have your sense of luxury in your space. It's kind of old world feeling, but you can modernize it at the same time. So I just think in general, warmth is really in, and the cooler tones seem to have gone. Bye. Bye.
- [25:17]
Tammy Sims
Okay. I'm super glad that that's in the out category, because there was enough gray. Right.
- [25:22]
Laura Thurman
And I think there's never going to be a enough dose of just natural, any type of natural, whether. I think Marvel is also here to stay, because that's what was used back in the day. Like I'm saying, it's all kind of coming back. Everybody had, like, their quartz thing, and now people are really leaning into materials that last that are natural, that petite over time. So it's not only that it's gold finish. It can be a living. It's what we refer to as a living finish. Right. So it can be in the silver side or the gold side, but it's going to patina as your hands touch those doorknobs or your cabinet poles. It's going to literally oxidize and change color year after year after year. So again, this sort of like age longevity, you know, natural again. So I think that all the stones, the woods, the marbles, those aren't going anywhere. I don't even see that as a fad, really. I don't, because I think it's timeless and people will choose it and will keep it for a long time.
- [26:20]
Jack Miller
One of the Things that we've seen a lot in our market last, in the last few years and partially is because of the, I think the. I would call it the California influence. A lot more contemporary architecture coming in the marketplace. And we're seeing a lot more coverings, wall and ceiling coverings, and use a non traditional material. So, for example, you'll see instead of a drywall ceiling or like a tray or some kind of coffered ceiling, which is all the traditional things we've seen in our market for years and years and years, suddenly we're seeing these large expanses of ceiling covered with hardwood. You know, why? Plank hardwood on the ceiling and wood treatments on the ceiling and wood treatments on walls and foyers. And it's a very expensive treatment and it's a very distinctive sense of style. But it's, but it's partially, I think, almost the pendulum swing from the white on white on white you talked about. We went from monochromatic period where everything was clean lines and white and white, and it got a little. It got a little boring, honestly. And so suddenly we're seeing all this wood over the last five years or so, covering ceilings and whatnot and walls. And I love it. I think it's a. It's expensive, but it's beautiful treatment.
- [27:19]
Laura Thurman
And again, that's bringing the warmth, right? It's like this. Yeah. This opposition to like really cleaned up, smooth, slick, open floor plan. Like, I think people are even going. Coming back to, you know, kind of compartmentalized rooms again back in the day, like a proper dining room. Like, not everybody wants open concept anymore. If you think about a home, I mean, even for myself personally, my, my perspective on floor plans have shifted over the years too. Like, yeah, all that open floor plan looks expansive. You can see someone from one end of the room to the other. But then you think, man, I've lost so much surface space. I've lost all the walls from my awesome art or my awesome wallpaper or my art collection or my whatever, right. These. I think there's just this need for warmth and like creating nooks, you know, that you. Within your expansive home or even your smaller home, you can create little moments. And that's really hard to do when everything is open. So I think some walls, and you might even start seeing more different applications for creating walls that are not walls. So whether that's drapery panels that are acting as wall, like a whole run of, you know, floor to ceiling hung drapery panels, that's kind of creating the illusion that it's a Wall, but then you can open it back up. So I think how multiple uses for the space is where you see a lot of that and then keep the space flexible, you know, for family versus singles or however you want to use it.
- [28:43]
Tammy Sims
I'm seeing swinging walls in some cases, and I don't know if that's the right terminology for it, but it's like walls that, like, you can make them perpendicular or they can close off a space, or they can become conduits to a different space. Obviously mostly in contemporary environments, but that's like doubling your wall space and giving you flexibility on the floor plan based on how you want to use it.
- [29:06]
Laura Thurman
Yeah, I've seen a lot of examples of stone, like traditional stone that you might see on the outside now being applied in the inside. Whether it's in your kitchen or an accent wall or, you know, it's in a library, that's making it feel kind of old world and cool again. I think it's this just draw to nature, different ways of incorporating nature. And while these materials are ultimately an investment up front, like you'd mentioned, Jack, they're long lasting, so they give return in that sense. Right. They should be, for the most part, fairly low maintenance if you are okay with how the natural materials age and patina over time. So you kind of invest up front, but you'll have it for a very long time.
- [29:46]
Jack Miller
That was one of the pieces of advice I got when I was very young and had nothing. I remember talking to an interior designer when I first got in real estate who was one of my clients. What's that?
- [29:55]
Tammy Sims
Get one thing, one really good thing.
- [29:57]
Jack Miller
That's exactly. That's it. We've had this conversation before. Yeah, yeah. She said, she said, don't try to furnish your house all at once. Don't try to buy a bunch of, you know. She said, find something you absolutely love and it's very expensive. It's okay. Get that piece of furniture, last forever. And she was so right. Because most of the furnishings in my home to this day, I'd say probably well over half are pieces that were accumulated one piece at a time. And I love those pieces. And they're timeless. They're not trendy at all. They're nothing trendy.
- [30:25]
Laura Thurman
I think that's hard to do when people are just eager to see their whole space finished. Right. They want us to come in. And I mean, when you, if you, if you're.
- [30:31]
Jack Miller
That's why we hire people like you, Laura.
- [30:32]
Laura Thurman
Right. I was gonna say, if you are fortunate to hire A designer, then we'll take care of all that for you. And, you know, it's a balancing act even with what we do. Every, as I say, every, you know, client has a, has a financial limit, whether it's in the millions or in the hundreds. It's, you know what I'm saying? Everybody has a ceiling that they don't feel comfortable surpassing. And so how we sort of navigate that budget and get the most out of it. Yeah, some things need to be mega investment pieces because we know you're going to use them all, you're going to use them a lot, they're going to get a lot of wear and tear, and you might want to pass it down to your kids or your friends. So, yeah, I think that's, that was really good advice. And I have to tell myself that from time to time. If you can imagine all the beautiful things I have to sift through all the time.
- [31:12]
Tammy Sims
Oh, yeah.
- [31:14]
Jack Miller
Oh, my gosh.
- [31:14]
Tammy Sims
And you're like, oh, I want this, I want that, I want this. Oh, my God.
- [31:18]
Jack Miller
We have the same trouble with houses every time. A gorgeous home.
- [31:20]
Tammy Sims
You want to move on, right? I take this one. Yeah.
- [31:25]
Laura Thurman
Yeah.
- [31:26]
Tammy Sims
I have a question. In, in Jack and my industry, particularly in the upper tier, we talk a lot about the importance of having great relationships with other real estate professionals that operate in the same space. And, and so it takes a concentrated effort to build those relationships, interact with them, network with them, be shoulder to shoulder as collaborators, not just competitors. And so I'm cur. Curious what that looks like in, in, in your field, Laura, and how you interact with other interior designers.
- [32:05]
Laura Thurman
It's the same. It's very similar to what you described. I think the culture of our industry has really changed. I think previously, you know, 20, 30 years ago, it was very hush, hush, keep it to yourself. I put in my ears to figure it out over there, friend. You know, like, people weren't really willing to share, but I think with certain television shows and just this general sense that design is easy and anyone can do it, you can just kind of be good and now you can be an influencer and you're a designer. Like, I think there's been a rallying in our industry to kind of come together, those who are really doing it at a professional level and kind of band together, share resources, be open, have open conversations. We're constantly trying to raise the, the value and the appreciation of what we do. I think because so much of it, people just see the beauty, they don't understand that it's a real business behind it, especially if you're running your business, right, if you're an employee, a little bit different, but we're talking on a high level. Someone owning their own firm like it's a real business. This isn't a hobby there. The amount of fun, pretty design things that happen versus, versus the dramas, damages, freight, shipping, tariffs, all that that we deal with is, Is so much more. And so I think there's a good camaraderie now of people just being open and, and wanting the industry as a whole to be really strong. And that just comes through unification, not through like, you know, division or isolation, I guess.
- [33:28]
Tammy Sims
Boy, Jack, doesn't that sound familiar?
- [33:30]
Laura Thurman
Right?
- [33:30]
Tammy Sims
Like, it's not just a hobby and we have to deal with all the sorts of things behind the scenes. Right? And we can smile and know what we're dealing with behind the scenes that nobody else gets to see. Yeah, it's interesting the similarities in industry.
- [33:44]
Laura Thurman
And I have a good, and probably like you guys, you know, I have a good handful of colleagues I can probably count on one hand who were the ride or die. We can say, talk about contracts, drama. Oops, I made a mistake here. How do I fix this? Oh, man, I found this awesome thing. Here's a great resource. I need a, A plaster I can recommend. And you know, so there is good community that way and you really need it. I don't know if it feels like that with you guys, but our industry can be very isolating, I think. And so you can feel very lonely, I think, if you're not plugged in and you don't have kind of your handful of people that you can speak really openly and candidly with. Not to sugarcoat, but to just be honest, you know, because we're all, again, we're just trying to raise the bar. Like, we want our industry to be perceived as serious, as a real, as a real job. We're not in. I'm not in the industry of discounts. Okay, let's just get that out there. I'm not in the business of discounts. I'm in the business of, of making money and serving my clients well. So all that, but it's. It's changing for the better, for sure.
- [34:45]
Jack Miller
And, and the, the other designers that you've interacted with, you typically interact with, with local designers, or are they in other places in the world? How did you build this community? Where do they come from?
- [34:55]
Laura Thurman
Yeah, a lot of them are designers I've met at networking events, so either at High Point Market or Atlanta Market, Any other type of. Of, you know, retreat that there are several that go on throughout the country. And so probably one of two of my closest friends I met through that. And then here locally, Nashville has a very strong, a very strong group. And we stay connected on social. We have private groups where we can share knowledge exchange and referrals. And I need, I need a recommendation for that. So both ways. But a lot of it is through just personal and professional networking and you kind of make those connections and they've lasted.
- [35:34]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [35:35]
Jack Miller
You know, we get asked a lot, Tammy, in, in our business in terms of builders. Our clients will ask us, what do you think of this builder? Who are some of the better builders? You know, can you introduce me? And what do you think I should be looking at in trying in terms of hiring a custom builder? And they'll ask a lot of questions, and I feel well versed in that. I've gotten some of those same questions regarding designers. I've gotten clients who are, you know, buying luxury homes who have kind of, you know, recently evolved to that place in life where they can have type of property and they're hiring designers for the first time. Or maybe they've been. They've hired designers before, but they moved across the country and they want to hire locally. Tell us, Laura, what.
- [36:15]
Laura Thurman
What type?
- [36:15]
Jack Miller
You know, again, we want to stay in our lane. But if we ask questions about designers, what advice should we offer our clients and to what degree should we be involved? Is it just simply sending over a contact record, here's somebody comes highly recommended or what. What do you think we should be telling our clients where designers are concerned?
- [36:33]
Laura Thurman
I think it's helpful that if a Realtor has a client they want to recommend that they kind of give us a shout out first, just sort of say, hey, we have a client who think it might be a good fit. And I think it's helpful to be honest, if you've sent them others, just say, we sent your two others and, you know, we're hoping you guys make. I'll help facilitate that introduction and I'll let you take it from here. I would encourage them, you know, like I said earlier, to, to have some sort of emotional response to the body of work that they see from their designer. They definitely need to have a good vibe as far as a phone call or an initial consultation. Yeah, that says a lot. All of us are doing our best to weed out clients that are not a good fit. And it happens we'd have.
- [37:15]
Jack Miller
That's the discussion that, Tammy, I were having before you came on earlier about that.
- [37:18]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [37:18]
Laura Thurman
I mean, no amount of money is worth the wrong vibe here. Okay. It's a long haul. It's not worth it. There's someone for everyone. You'll find another person that's a better fit. So feel confident in the fit. I think that you, you know, your client should expect to discuss money early on with a designer.
- [37:39]
Tammy Sims
Yeah. Yeah. You need a sense of budget.
- [37:41]
Laura Thurman
Yeah. And if you're not, that designer is not experienced enough. There's some timidity there that they're not wanting to bring that up. I mean, that's like the first thing I like to just get out of the way.
- [37:51]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [37:52]
Laura Thurman
So we can move on and move on to the fun and the awesome. But I don't want to have any false expectations. I like to lay it all out there. And any experienced, qualified designer should be able to do that. And I think, like you were saying, a sense of loyalty and respect is a big thing. I would just encourage them, just say they take the job very seriously. You know, they're, they're looking to serve you well and you just have to kind of keep open lines of, of communication and just be, you know, just be honest. It is, it is an intimate thing. We're dealing with people's money. I think that's a very big deal. No matter how they got it, they worked hard, they inherited it. It doesn't matter. It's their money. I think that they should sense that.
- [38:31]
Tammy Sims
From, you know, and it makes me think, going back to your comment earlier about, you know, you're, you're not about discounting. Right. Like, you are a full service, full fee professional. And, and Jack and I have to, to, to, to also work in that world. I think everybody's looking family discount. Everybody's looking for, for an edge. But we have to often come, you know, kind of upfront and say, you know, we are not the least expensive option, but we are bringing this to the table and we are worth what we're charging and also setting that standard, you know, of professionalism for our industry. So, you know, I'm glad you said that because often, Jack, do you find, I mean, either it's implied that they know that they're going to pay whatever it is that they're going to pay, or they ask up front and you get over that hurdle. What do you think?
- [39:21]
Jack Miller
No, absolutely. I mean, and I've said many times, you know, we're not, we're not getting paid just for the obvious checklist of items that real estate brokers do. We're getting paid for the years of experience we bring to the table and all the scenarios we've been to, to get us to this point so we can offer good advice. I was, I was just sharing with Tammy before we went on to the podcast about a client who's did a extremely high end custom build and I offered to introduce him to some of the best builders in our marketplace. And he waved that away and basically said, no, no, I've got this. Because in his mind he saw that as an expense because that might be a referral fee and he'd rather capture that than have me be involved in transaction. He and I have a good relationship, but he wanted to do it on his own and now he's in a project now that's in the many millions of dollars and no lawsuit and the jobs come to a halt and nothing's happening. And he said to me, I wish we'd had that conversation that, that you know, we didn't have on the front end that I offered to him.
- [40:18]
Laura Thurman
I mean, ultimately, you know, I think it's helpful if the realtor can express to the designer, as I mean to the client is saying, I want to refer you to this designer. It is an expense, but you are saving money. You're saving money with errors and mistakes. You're saving money by knowing it's going to be done right. You're saving money knowing it's going to be cohesive. Just because you, you know what you like doesn't mean you have any idea of how to pull it off. Any idea of how to put it together. Yeah, even have the resources to pull together. I mean the way that you guys are giving the referral for different, you know, for different industries. Imagine like with us as a designer, I can have the beautiful know how, the knowledge, technical skill. I am reliant on so many other people to sure to do their part this, to make this a reality. Like yeah, contractor, the electrician, the carpenter, the wallpaper.
- [41:11]
Jack Miller
I mean, well that, and that's one of the questions I actually have for you, Lars, very specifically is the custom builder where again, we've got a lot of clients in our market who are building, either building a single family home or they're building out a condo. They bought a very expensive shell in a high rise condo. They're building that out. At what point should we be bringing, you know, if they're asking us for builders, not in the condo scenario, but the single family and we're trying to, to help them create a builder relationship, where in that process should they be Bringing in the designer because you're very, very close to that builder.
- [41:44]
Laura Thurman
There should be no, there should be no difference between you reaching out to the architect, builder and designer, all three. Because people often think, you know, we're dealing with construction, so you need to lock in a builder or you need to lock in an architect, but they're building what the designer designs. So it's, it's not helpful to be brought in. This has happened recently with an out of state client. She was a client here and then we're working on another project out of state and she had a different contractor. That's fine. But we just got brought in too late. I mean it was the information missed between the three of us. Client, contractor, us was like, ah, you know, like, oh, if we were just brought in earlier, some of them really smoothed out. And I think it's important that, that the builder and the contractor or architect has worked with a designer before. Critical, like you may lock into this builder.
- [42:38]
Jack Miller
Wait, wait, with that particular designer or a designer.
- [42:40]
Tammy Sims
A designer.
- [42:41]
Jack Miller
A designer.
- [42:42]
Laura Thurman
A designer of just of the same level, you know, just a professional designer. Because again, as we're talking about professional lanes and staying in them, you know, it's a, it's a pat, it's a, it's a team effort. All of us, us, architect, builder, designer. Right. We're all on the same team here to serve the client. And at a certain level it's pretty expected that most builders or architects have worked with a designer, but you might get a few where they just have a, they have their systems and they're not deviating and we have our systems and we may not deviate. So we want to know, can we smooth this out for it to be a great relationship for the client or are we not a good fit? So bringing us in, you know, oh, it started now you think I need finishes and selections. Well, that pricing, budget, all of that can be determined at the front. It's really hard to expect a builder to give you, you know, to the point numbers or contractor to the point numbers when they don't even know what they're building.
- [43:33]
Tammy Sims
Yeah, yeah.
- [43:35]
Laura Thurman
So our roadmap.
- [43:36]
Tammy Sims
Laura, I just had an epiphany if what, what you were just saying, making sure that a builder has worked with designers before. Period. Right.
- [43:47]
Laura Thurman
So not, not someone who's like a hobbyist.
- [43:51]
Tammy Sims
Right. And, and also just have they worked with any designer before? Right. Because what's happening in my market is we've got this infill that we talked about before and so you have a Lot of builders that are coming in, tearing down grandma's house that's on two lots and building two brand new houses, building out to the edge of the lot, as much house as possible, not a blade of grass. Right. And they're making these designs, but some of them are one off builders. They just created a company to do this build and they have never, ever, ever worked with any designer before. In fact, the ones that are going across the street from me right now, I look and if you look in the front window, the staircase goes in front of the front window, like literally in the window. And, and you're like, oh my goodness. And that also makes the difference. So we have these products, right? Like a million and a half, two and a half, three million dollar products that are being built. And it's the reputation of the builder and how they work with the entire community, both real estate professionals, designers and all of that, that makes the difference between whether somebody's going to buy their property or go for the one that's even maybe $250,000 less over here. That's a unknown quantity. So it's funny when you just said that, I was like, oh my gosh, there are some builders out there that have never worked with a designer ever.
- [45:20]
Laura Thurman
Yeah. Or they have, they have a designer on staff and that's not the same. That's right, that's not really the same. Right. So they, they're, they want, they're going to use their resources, who they pay and that's fine. So again it just if you can get your, get your, your wish list, your dream team together first, reach out to each and then say, can we all like connect together and make sure we can all do this?
- [45:45]
Jack Miller
No, it's a really big deal actually. I had a, a build job with a client a few years ago. They were doing like an eight million dollar build here in Brentwood. Gorgeous home, terrific builder. He's got a great reputation, building a great product and, and to buy one of his spec homes is a wonderful experience. But to build with him is a big challenge. Particularly it's challenge for the clients and it's a challenge for the designers because they brought a designer in. Very reputable designer from our market. Laura, I'm sure you would know her, she's tremendous. And it was just cracking heads constantly because the builder wanted to do it his way. And we had to often remind the builder that he's doing it for our client. And it's the other ones we're living in the house, not the builder. But it was really hard because he did not. He was not flexible and he did not want to work with a designer. Kept trying to override what the designer was doing because it wasn't his vision for this house. And so I think that, to answer my own question from earlier, I think that's one of the things we probably should be sharing with our colleagues that we should all share with our clients, which is. You use the word team earlier, Lauren. Exactly. Right. When you're doing a luxury build job or a luxury condo built out, putting together a team. And just because somebody's a great interior designer and a terrific builder doesn't mean they can work together. You know, it's like marriages. There's some wonderful people that are married. They just don't make a great couple.
- [47:06]
Tammy Sims
Yeah. But I love what Laura said. It's the dream team, right? Not just a team. It's your dream team. And that, that doesn't. That, that can be intangible how that, how that dream relationship happens. Well, so as usual, we can go on and on. So I want to ask Jack, do you have any last burning questions or la. Anything that you want to make sure that, that, that. That our listeners hear before we wrap up today?
- [47:34]
Laura Thurman
I don't think so, other than, you know, design. Having a good designer, having a good realtor, it's an investment not only in time and money and energy, and I can't stress enough the vibe that there's a good connection that you get with someone and that can be instantaneous. There's lots of clients we've worked with for years. We've done phases at a time, and they're awesome. We, we can go to dinner and it's no, you know, no big deal. And, you know, as we all said, no project is worth sacrificing that good buy.
- [48:06]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [48:06]
Laura Thurman
Senergy for. Yeah, we, we love realtors. We want to always be a referral on the top of the list. If you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, it's just. It's just to make the process easier. And I wanna, I wanna have a beautiful result for us, for our work.
- [48:23]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [48:24]
Laura Thurman
To make the realtor who gave us the referral proud so that it's cyclical, that it, you know, we just keep helping each other out. That's really the goal.
- [48:32]
Jack Miller
Yeah. Well, I think at the close, I think also it's very interesting because the way that Laura and I met was through a mutual client. I helped her find a home. It's just. It's just a gorgeous home in East Nashville, new build. And she My client told me about Laura and her work.
- [48:47]
Tammy Sims
Work.
- [48:48]
Jack Miller
And one of the key words that she used to tag on to what you said, Laura, was she said she had a really good energy. I just connected with her easily. And I think that's so important to your point, Laura, because if, if it's an uphill battle the whole way, it's, it takes, it sucks the joy out of the experience.
- [49:05]
Tammy Sims
Yeah.
- [49:06]
Jack Miller
And I think that ultimately hiring the right designer and hiring the right real estate broker, builder, you know, you're, you're, you're creating a relationship and oftentimes this becomes a great relationship that goes on for many, many years past pass that project onto other projects. So life is a whole lot more fun for all of us. Yeah, it's good energy that we're putting out. Good energy we're receiving as opposed to feel like we're in conflict with our own clients. And so I think that that part of it cannot be underestimated or undervalued here as we talk about making selection.
- [49:35]
Tammy Sims
For sure. For sure. Well, I want to thank you, Laura, for joining us today. And for all of our listeners and audience, I want to thank you so much for joining us on this episode of a state of the art of selling luxury real estate. If you're interested in learning more about the institute, you can find more@luxuryhome marketing.com and if you like what you just heard, please share it with a friend. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review this podcast. And if you've got a hot topic that you'd like us to discuss in a future podcast, feel free to let us know. Send an email to infoxuryhomemarketing.com thanks so much for listening.