Bardella warns Brussels he won’t moderate

Summary

Brussels Playbook Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Bardella warns Brussels he won’t moderate
Date: June 15, 2026
Host: Zoya Sheftalovich (POLITICO)
Guests: Marion Saletti (POLITICO Chief Europe Correspondent), Nick Vinica (Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent, POLITICO)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the confrontational atmosphere in Brussels after Jordan Bardella, France’s far-right MEP, made it clear in an interview that he will not soften his stance toward the EU should he become France's next president. The discussion explores implications for EU politics, budget negotiations, and French policy on Ukraine. The episode also provides on-the-ground insight into the upcoming G7 Summit in Évian, diplomatic wrangling over its logistics, and looming policy disputes. Additional segments touch on EU foreign affairs around sanctions on Israeli politicians, and the hyper-local controversy over Brussels' ban on shared e-scooters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jordan Bardella's Stance Toward the EU

[01:35–04:50]

• Marion Saletti recounts her exclusive interview with Bardella, who is a leading contender for French presidency should Marine Le Pen be sidelined.
• Brussels is both anxious and hopeful Bardella would "do a Meloni"—moderate his hard-right nationalist positions once in office.
• Bardella unequivocally rejects any such moderation:

  "He is not giving up on the National Rally's very much radical agenda when it comes to the EU and...is ready for a showdown in Brussels." — Marion Saletti [02:43]

• Bardella’s positioning is anticipated to be unique—not imitating Italy’s Meloni or Hungary’s Orbán, but mixing direct collaboration on technical issues (e.g., cutting red tape, migration) with staunch opposition, especially on the EU budget.

Notable Quote:

“He will be Jordan Bardella.” — Marion Saletti, paraphrasing Bardella’s advisors on whether he'll resemble Meloni or Orbán [03:17]

• Bardella intends to reopen negotiations on the EU long-term budget (“MFF”), seeking to cut France’s contribution if elected.

  “If I am elected, I will definitely reopen that and, you know, lead very hard negotiations on essentially cutting the French contribution to the budget.” — Marion Saletti reporting Bardella’s view [04:30]

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2. Bardella on Ukraine, Russia, and Trump

[05:12–07:02]

• Bardella distances himself from his party’s past Russian ties, denouncing Russia as “a threat to France and to Europe.”
• However, he remains hesitant to offer strong support for Ukraine: opposed to sending French troops, ambiguous on security guarantees, and his party has voted against Ukraine-supportive resolutions in the European Parliament.
• National Rally still has funding challenges for the 2027 presidential race—no French or foreign bank has offered major loans, and Bardella is careful to distance himself from Trump, whom he called "erratic."

  “He used the word ‘erratic’, you know, which is quite strong. He’s certainly distancing himself from Trump.” — Marion Saletti [06:44]

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3. G7 Summit in Évian: Logistical & Diplomatic Jockeying

[07:28–11:24]

• Host Emmanuel Macron is welcoming world leaders, but logistical headaches arise as Geneva (Switzerland) bears the brunt of security costs. France refuses to help pay.
• Core agenda: global economic imbalances, primarily focused on China’s excess exports—a “euphemism,” as Nick puts it, for trade tensions.
• Expectations for joint action or even a communique are low, partly due to Trump’s unpredictability.

  “Even their expectations are low, low, low for something like a joint communique.” — Nick Vinica [08:32]

• Macron’s team is employing ballroom dinners to keep Trump engaged through the summit. The hope is to simply “get through this” and preserve unity until the NATO summit.

Notable Quote:

“We just need to get through this G7 without blow ups, get to the NATO summit in Ankara with the transatlantic alliance intact.” — Senior EU official, relayed by Nick Vinica [09:20]

• The dynamic with Ukrainian President Zelensky is improved by Ukraine’s recent battlefield momentum, making it harder for Trump to “pressure a loser.”

“It’s easy to pressure a loser, it’s harder to pressure someone who looks like a winner.” — Nick Vinica [10:18]

• Still, concrete deliverables for Ukraine (defense, financing, peace) remain unlikely.

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4. EU Foreign Affairs Council: Israel Sanctions Debate

[12:06–13:54]

• EU foreign ministers meet in Luxembourg with debate over sanctions on Israeli National Security Minister Ben Gvir for mistreatment of Gaza flotilla activists.
• While there was recent unity over sanctions on West Bank settlers, getting unanimous backing this time seems unlikely, with Germany, Czechia, Bulgaria, and Slovakia among the holdouts.
• Some countries worry sanctions would merely bolster Ben Gvir politically ahead of Israeli elections.

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5. Ukraine & Moldova Move Toward EU Membership

[13:54–14:34]

• A "more positive news" angle: formal opening of accession talks for Ukraine and Moldova to join the EU, after Hungary has dropped its opposition.

“So, yeah, as of today, the real negotiations for Ukraine and Moldova to enter the EU begin.” — Zoya Sheftalovich [13:54]

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6. Brussels Bans Shared E-Scooters: City Life in Flux

[14:34–15:41]

• Brussels will not renew licenses for shared e-scooters, citing 666 injuries in 2025 and links to criminal activity, including 25 shootings.
• Nick, a self-identified "scooter lover," sees these justifications as overplayed and compares e-scooter accident rates to bicycles, challenging the rationale for the ban.

“Give me the total number of accidents on bicycles. And then let’s talk. Let’s compare and contrast.” — Nick Vinica [14:53]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bardella’s approach:
  “He’s officially the plan B candidate.” — Marion Saletti [01:48]

• On the G7's diplomatic fragility:
  “Trump likes ballrooms and pomp and circumstance, so they put a dinner at the end to entice him to actually stay through the whole thing.” — Nick Vinica [09:20]

• On e-scooter ban outrage:
  “I feel like it’s against me. It’s a personal affront.” — Nick Vinica [14:34]

• On podcast camaraderie:
  “Share us with your enemies, too. Why only should your friends be informed?” — Zoya Sheftalovich [15:41]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:35] – Bardella interview discussion begins (w/ Marion Saletti)
• [02:43] – Bardella’s stance on moderating his agenda toward EU
• [04:07] – EU budget and Bardella’s intention to force a renegotiation
• [05:12] – Bardella’s position on Ukraine and Russia
• [06:44] – Bardella on Trump: “erratic”
• [07:28] – G7 Summit logistics and agenda
• [08:32] – Low expectations for G7 unity
• [10:18] – Trump’s approach to Ukraine and Zelensky
• [12:06] – EU’s debate on Israel sanctions
• [13:54] – Ukraine and Moldova’s EU membership talks open
• [14:34] – Brussels bans shared e-scooters, Nick protests

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Tone & Style

Conversational and irreverent, the hosts and guests bring nuance, humor, and sharp insight to complex policy debates, balancing inside-baseball political analysis with relatable, everyday concerns—whether EU budget wrangling or the fate of urban e-scooters.

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For more details and the full Bardella interview, visit POLITICO’s website.

Transcript

[A]

So good, so good, so good.

[B]

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[A]

Good morning. It's Monday, June 15, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is combative, as Jordan Bardella says he has no intention of moderating his stance towards the EU if he becomes France's next president. Our colleague Marian Saletti actually sat down with the far right MEP for a pretty wide ranging interview. And. And she's going to tell us all about it in a sec. Also on the pod, G7 leaders are gathering in Evian. But can Emmanuel Macron, the host, keep Donald Trump engaged through to the end? And Brussels is kicking shared E scooters off its streets and Nick isn't taking it well. Hey, Nick.

[C]

Nope, nope. Not having it.

[A]

I'm Zoya Shevdolovich and with me today is our chief foreign affairs correspondent and scooter lover, Nick Vinica. All right, Nick, for our first story, we've got a special guest in the studio, Marion Saletti. She's POLITICO's chief Europe correspondent. Marion, you're usually based in Paris, but you've been here to interview Jordan Bardella, who looks like he might be in the running for the next French president.

[D]

Yes, indeed. I mean, we will know that on July 7, when the much anticipated judicial decision will land on Marine Le Pen's future.

[A]

But then if she, she is out, then he looks like he's going to be the guy, the guy who's running.

[D]

Oh, yes. I mean, he's officially the plan B candidate.

[A]

Well, listen, we want you to tell us all about it. First up, Nick, I hear you were practice Jordan Bardella. The other day when Marian was running her questions.

[C]

This is the things I do for Politico method acting. And it was grueling, but I got to say, it was kind of fun, you know?

[A]

Are you going to now have your political aspirations awakened?

[C]

It just made me think, you know, it's not that hard.

[A]

Well, listen, let's not faff about, let's get straight to it. Marion, you were asking Bardella about all sorts of things, but one of the things that Nick and I have been talking on this podcast about is the fact that Brussels is sort of wondering whether maybe Jordan Bardella might get the French presidency and then suddenly discover a softer side to him and do a Maloney and become a constructive member around the EU council table. What did he tell you about that?

[D]

Yes, so I think, you know, there is a different perspective on that in Brussels and in France. I think the EU bubble, you know, is sort of trying to reassure itself. Some people are afraid that the national rally governing France will be the end of the eu. And there is this has been this sort of mood music about like, oh, but it will just be a mellony. But he made clear during this interview that he is not giving up on the national races very much radical agenda when it comes to the EU and that he's ready for a showdown in Brussels.

[A]

So he's going to be less Maloney and more Viktor Orban. Sounds like, well, we'll see.

[D]

You know, when you ask his closest advisors, like will he be sort of Orban or Meloni, they say, oh, he will be Jordan Bodela. So, you know, he will probably use a mix of both. He signaled that he was very much ready to work with more mainstream politicians on issues such as cutting red tape or, you know, migration even. But on other issues, he's probably going to clash really hard with them. And that includes, for instance, the EU's budget.

[A]

Well, yeah, I did want to ask you about the budget because that's a huge topic, particularly because we've now got the nego box that's out, as we like to call it here. That's the first kind of figures that give us a sense of how much money is going to be in that long term budget. And there are some real big fights emerging. It's pretty clear now between the people who want big spending and the people who want less spending. So where's Bardella going to land on that?

[D]

Yeah. So brace for an even bigger fight if he does come to power because he made it very clear that he wanted to reopen those negotiations if he were to be elected. So when I asked him, you know, this negotiation is wrapping up, essentially a lot of people are hoping to wrap it up before the French election.

[A]

Yeah, because the French election is April 2027. But everyone's hoping that they're going to get the deal done by the end of this year.

[D]

Yeah. And he said it's unacceptable that they're trying to wrap this up before such an important election. And I think the next French government should have a say in the long term budget. And if I am elected, I will definitely reopen that and, and you know, lead very Hard negotiations on essentially cutting the French contribution to the budget.

[C]

I do find that kind of surprising because this was supposed to be a threat to the eu, that if the EU does things that France doesn't want, in that case France will reduce its contribution to the mff. And he's basically telling you we're going to reduce it to start with. And of course that would be a huge problem for the eu.

[D]

Absolutely is very much willing to play hardball.

[C]

You also asked him about Ukraine. That's an interesting one. We know Marine Le Pen's history with Russia and Putin and the loans that they contracted from a Russian backed bank to finance their campaigns. What does he say about continued support for Kyiv, which has been France's position?

[D]

Yeah, he's been very clear that support for Ukraine essentially should come at the expense of the French. And so what he's trying to do two things here, like first sort of check off his party's pro Russian image. So he's drawn a bit of a line between him and some other party members who are still, you know, sort of echoing Kremlin talking points. He said out loud, you know, Russia is a threat to France and to Europe. So that's quite clear in his, in the way he speaks. But on the other hand, he made clear that, for instance, the security guarantees that Macron was committed to post peace Ukraine were up in the air if you were to be elected. So no French troops on the ground even after a ceasefire or as some sort of, you know, peacekeeping capacity. And his party has obviously voted against all sorts of resolutions supporting Ukraine in the parliament.

[A]

So that's the European Parliament or the French Parliament. The European Parliament, because he's an mep, of course.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And let's recall, as far as I understand, they have not found someone to fund their 2027 presidential election.

[D]

No, they're still looking. They're still looking. Y. They are looking with French banks and abroad.

[A]

Have they been in talks with Trump? With the us they wouldn't say.

[D]

I suspect not. But you know, why not? He had some tough words for Trump in the interview. Interestingly, the party has been trying to sort of keep him at a distance because it's a bit toxic to French voters. He used the word erratic, you know, which is quite strong. He's certainly distantiating himself from Trump.

[A]

Right, well, thank you so much, Marion listeners. If you want to hear more about what Jordan Bardella told Marion, you do need to go to our website today because you can read and watch the whole interview there. Nick, you are about to head to the French Alps, to Evian, where the G Summit is about to take off. Where are you flying into? Is there an airport in Evian?

[C]

There is none. And funny you ask, because Switzerland and France are not happy about this G7.

[A]

Why? Why are they not happy?

[C]

Well, because France is hosting it in Evian, but most people are flying into Geneva, which means that the Geneva airport has to pay for all the security. And as you know, G7S, there are protests, there's a lot of activity around it.

[A]

Oh, yeah, people get pretty spicy.

[C]

Exactly. And so the Swiss are saying, hey, we're running up a bill in the tens of millions of euros for security. Maybe you could contribute to the tab. And Francis said, no, no, no, they will not pay.

[A]

They've said, switzerland, you've got enough money. Thank you and no thank you.

[C]

That seems to be the subtext. But let's talk about. Yeah. What's on the agenda here?

[A]

The substance. My least favorite part of any discussion. Well, okay, yeah, let's chat about it. Let's just remind our listeners it's the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, the uk, the us, Canada, Japan, plus Osilo of Underline and Antonio Kostia from the EU getting together. And the theme this year is basically global economic imbalances, AKA China, flooding global markets with cheap stuff.

[C]

That is the euphemism of the day. And indeed, everyone wants to talk about these global imbalances because it seems to be the lowest common denominator. These are all sort of Western friendly countries. And what they hope is to come to some kind of joint position on China. I'm told that even their expectations are low, low, low for something like a

[A]

joint communique or you've been reporting that there probably isn't going to be one. There might be some presidency notes that the French come up with, which some summarize what has been discussed, but this is a actually not unusual in this day and age of Trump, because when Trump is at the table, often a joint communique is too high a bar to reach.

[C]

Yeah, it was not too long ago. They weren't sure that Trump was actually going to come to this.

[A]

Oh, isn't Emmanuel Macron throwing him a big old fancy dinner at first sight to get him to stay through the whole thing.

[C]

That was exactly the idea. So they know Trump likes ballrooms and pomp and circumstance, so they put a dinner at the end to entice him to actually stay through the whole thing. Because as someone put it to me, a senior EU official, we just need to get through this the idea is we need to get through this G7 without blow ups, get to the NATO summit in Ankara with the transatlantic alliance intact, and hopefully by the fall, things will look better in the world.

[A]

How do you, how do you square that circle, Nick? Well, is that they're not the only ones who are going to be there because Vladimir Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, he's going to be jetting in as well on Tuesday, though. And I've been talking to some Ukrainian officials in Kiev and here, and they have a sense that this G7 might actually go better for Zelensky than other meetings with Trump have gone. And that's because Ukraine is on the offensive right now and is doing much better in the war. Is that what you're hearing as well?

[C]

That's the narrative out there. I think what they're saying is it's going to be harder for Trump to put pressure on Zelensky because it's easy to pressure a loser, it's harder to pressure someone who looks like a winner. But in terms of deliverables, in terms of what Ukraine, Ukraine needs, which is more air defense, more financing and a better peace deal, it doesn't look like we're going to get that much concrete out of this G7. One thing in the briefings they're saying in between the lines is we got to come up with a joint approach to Russia. And we know that in Anchorage, Trump basically, you know, offered concessions on Ukraine's behalf and they kind of want him to back away from those concessions. We all get behind the line that there are no territorial concessions. Trump to Russia in peace talks. But even that might be elusive here. I think what's really interesting is sort of the handing over of the baton is really what's going on at this G7 where the Europeans are much more in the driver's seat and we might get some kind of recognition from Trump, other U.S. officials that, yeah, you can take the negotiations forward. It's over to you.

[A]

It's actually also pretty important to see how Trump handles European leaders here, whether Macron, Merce, Starmer, whether they're able to get the kind of friendly Trump or if they get the combative, pugilistic Trump. That's all about telling Europe where to stick it.

[C]

Yeah, I always remind people of that famous picture of Trump looking like a sort of angry toddler surrounded by lecturing European leaders. That was at a G7. And that can easily be the dynamic Trump versus everyone else. I think the idea is kind of get through this, but the idea of getting Wins the idea of building bridges, of repairing things. I have not really not heard a whole lot of that in the briefings going up to this.

[A]

Yeah, let's actually really quickly talk about the other big meeting that's happening today also on your turf. It's the Foreign affairs council, the FAC, and that is happening in Luxembourg. And it's the EU's foreign ministers. They are going to be discussing one pretty spicy topic, something that has divided the eu. And this is this discussion about sanctioning certain Israeli politicians, particularly the National Security Minister, Ben gvir, over his treatment of the Gaza flotilla activists. Where are you expecting this one to go?

[C]

Yeah, so not too long ago we had the first unified stance on sanctions against Israel from the Europeans. And that was a big moment. Hungary changed its stance and we got sanctions against violent settlers in the West Bank. But it's looking like that's a one off because there's this big push to impose individual sanctions against Ben gvir. And it kind of looked like a slam dunk. I mean, the images of the Glaza flotilla activists being kind of manhandled and mistreated, widespread outraged in Europe, several individual travel bans. But from what I'm understanding, it does not look like we're going to get that unanimous backing for these sanctions. We're going back to more familiar configurations. Some countries opposing Germany, Czechia also talking about Bulgaria and Slovakia.

[A]

Yeah, and to be clear, one of the reasons why some of the countries oppose it is also because they feel like it might actually help Ben Gavir because he can then weaponize that in his campaigning.

[C]

Oh, absolutely. Let's not forget there is an election coming up in Israel.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

All so we could get a very different government and you're going to have, you know, the far right factions digging in their heels. It's a very hot button topic today. But that's not all because we also have, let's say, more positive news certainly for Ukraine and Moldova, which is the opening of the first cluster of negotiations for joining the eu.

[A]

That's going to be huge. So this is the official opening. It's the first big step that the EU has been able to take in a really long time. Because of Hungary blocking, Victor Oban is now out of the way. Peter Magia has unblocked this move. And so, yeah, as of today, the real negotiations for Ukraine and Moldova to enter the EU begin. Nick, our last thing we're going to talk about. It is something that I think is going to wound you right in the soul. It's the fact that Brussels is going to be banning shared e scooters from next January. Basically, the license for Bolt and dot is expiring and they're not going to renew it.

[C]

I feel like it's against me. It's a personal affront. It's how I get in when I'm in a hurry. I find them pretty safe, very useful. But not everybody seems to feel that way.

[A]

No, that's right. And the government is saying, look, accidents are on the rise. They said 666 people were injured in e scooter accidents last year.

[C]

Very, very dodgy numbers. Give me the total number of accidents on bicycles. And then let's talk. Let's compare and contrast. Just saying, oh, there's 600 accidents. So what? I don't know. That doesn't mean anything.

[A]

Well, they're also saying that the scooters have been used in 25 shootings in Brussels. In 2025.

[C]

And how many cars have been used? Okay. I mean, I'm like the idea that e scooters are a drug dealer's dream to me as a reason to ban them. Come on, guys.

[A]

Well, I would love to hear from our audience, actually. Listeners, let us know. Link is in the show. Notes to our WhatsApp. Send us a note, voice note or whatever. Tell us what you think. Are you pro this ban? Are you anti? Are you a Nick or are you a Zoya?

[C]

I know what they're gonna say. And you know what? It's fine. I respect all views.

[A]

All right, folks, that's it from us today. Please do subscribe and share us with your friends. Share us with your enemies, too. Why? Why only should your friends be informed? That's my question. Thank you so much, folks. Speak to you tomorrow.

[C]

Sam.