Budapest and Kyiv break the ice

Summary

Brussels Playbook Podcast: Budapest and Kyiv Break the Ice

Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Ian Wishart
Guest: Nick Winica, POLITICO’s Chief Foreign Correspondent

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Overview

This episode centers on a surprising diplomatic thaw between Hungary and Ukraine, potential shifts in Ukraine’s EU accession prospects, intensifying geopolitical maneuvering in Greenland involving the EU and the US, and the inaugural European Order of Merit awards—highlighting the interplay between politics, international ambition, and European identity. The hosts deliver insightful updates with characteristic wit, seamlessly blending deep reporting with conversational banter.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Hungary-Ukraine Relations Thaw and EU Accession Talks

• [01:19] After years of blockades, expert-level talks between Hungary and Ukraine are resuming, focusing on the rights of Hungarian minorities in Ukraine.

• Background: Historically, Prime Minister Viktor Orban cited minority rights to justify blocking Ukraine’s EU progression. Recently, Hungary escalated to an outright opposition to Ukraine’s membership.

• Significance:

  • The resumption of dialogue, described as “unthinkable a month or two ago” (A), signals a possible warming in Hungary’s stance.
  • First publicly acknowledged contact between Hungary’s Foreign Minister Anita Orban (no relation to Viktor Orban) and Ukraine’s Foreign Minister took place over the weekend.

  "The fact that we're now having this expert-level talks...is seen as a very positive sign."
  — Nick Winica [01:38]

• Complexity of Minority Rights:

  • The status of Hungarian minorities in Ukraine is a tangible, ongoing concern for both communities and must be resolved for accession progress.
  • New Hungarian PM Peter Magyar has addressed rule of law issues with Brussels but sees the minority issue as more complex.

  "They have to come to an agreement on the status of these minorities. And Ukraine has made proposals for months. They were rejected by or ignored by Hungary, and now it looks like they may be accepting them."
  — Nick Winica [03:06]

• Optimism from Ukraine:

  • Ukrainian officials are optimistic about recent contacts and are discussing a potential Zelensky-Magyar summit—which could mark a "major sea change" [04:07].
  • However, EU insiders urge “caution”—negotiations may not move as quickly as Kyiv hopes.

  "Kyiv’s talking about, you know, as soon as next week opening this first cluster. They say just hold your horses. It could last a little longer than that."
  — Nick Winica [04:52]

• Membership Timeline Context:

  • Full membership by 2027 is unlikely; associate membership may be more feasible in that timeframe.
  • Zelensky seeks a solid commitment as a “selling point” for Ukrainians in any peace deal.
  • Big member states, notably Germany, urge a slower, more incremental process.

  "We want a membership agreement. Just the deal that all countries agree that we should be on track to join."
  — Ian Wishart, summarizing Ukrainian Foreign Minister’s stance [05:47]

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2. EU’s Growing Interest in Greenland (Geopolitical Arctic Moves)

• [06:39] EU Commissioner Joseph Sikela visits Nuuk, Greenland, for the “Future Greenland” conference—as the EU locks in investments and strengthens its Arctic strategy.

• Geopolitical Backdrop:

  • The US, under Trump, has renewed interest in annexing Greenland and is sending a large delegation, led by envoy Jeff Landry.
  • The EU recently opened an office in Nuuk, employing five people—drawing some playful ribbing from the hosts about their “woolly hats” [07:02].
  • Greenland remains part of the Kingdom of Denmark; it left the EU in 1985, yet is a pivotal subject in superpower competition.

  "Donald Trump has said he wants to annex Greenland and has not given up on those plans."
  — Nick Winica [06:54]

• US and EU Presence:

  • Both delegations are in Nuuk. Despite crossing paths at the conference, sources say they don’t plan to meet directly.
  • Behind-the-scenes negotiations continue between the US, Denmark, and Greenland about American military bases and investment rights.
  • The United States reportedly wants veto rights over certain Greenlandic investments.

  "Danish officials say it's not a dead issue...Ongoing closed door talks between the US, Denmark, and Greenland about the island's future."
  — Nick Winica [08:17]

• EU Strategy:

  • Massive increase in funding: from €225 million to more than double proposed for the next budget cycle.
  • Focus on rare raw materials as Europe seeks to secure resources vital for the green transition and tech industries, amidst US-China rivalry.

  "The EU is obviously trying to move forward and lay a claim to what’s under the ground in Greenland."
  — Nick Winica [09:21]

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3. European Order of Merit Awards: Inaugural Recipients

• [09:32] The first European Order of Merit awards are being presented today in Strasbourg, in three categories: “Distinguished Members,” “Honorable Members,” and “Members of the Order.”

  • Notable recipients mentioned: Bono (U2), Angela Merkel, Lech Wałęsa, Javier Solana, and NBA superstar Giannis Antetokounmpo (the “Greek Freak”).
  • Ceremony is part of the 75th anniversary celebrations of the Schuman Declaration.

  "Apparently in line for an award today include Bono from U2...And also the former German Chancellor, Angela Merkel."
  — Ian Wishart [10:33]

• Discussing Selection & Multicultural Europe:

  • Giannis Antetokounmpo highlighted as a symbol of a more multicultural European identity, given his Nigerian-Greek heritage and rise to global stardom.

  "He’s a kind of symbol of a more multicultural version of European identity."
  — Nick Winica [11:38]

  • Hosts joke about their own lack of eligibility for the awards and muse about the criteria, “just anyone who’s been pro-European.”

• Listener Engagement:

  • The hosts encourage listeners to WhatsApp who they would nominate for the Order of Merit.

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4. Audience Feedback: Europe’s Favorite Museums

• [12:43] In response to a previous call for favorite museums:
  • Joe (Australia): POLIN Museum (Warsaw, Polish Jewish history)
  • Danny (UK): Kunst Historisches Museum (Vienna, five millennia of art)
  • Kyle (Malta): Warsaw Uprising Museum (“a great impression on him and how resilient a people can be” — Nick Winica [13:15])
  • Emma (colleague): Fenix Museum (Rotterdam, migration history; “a bit more uplifting” — Ian Wishart [13:20])
• Banter about heavy topics, museums, and whether talking about museums qualifies them for an Order of Merit.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Hungary-Ukraine talks:

  "This is something they've got to sort out...the status of the minority in Ukraine."
  — Ian Wishart [03:01]

• On the pace of Ukraine’s EU accession:

  "Keeves talking about, you know, as soon as next week...they say just hold your horses."
  — Nick Winica [04:52]

• On US-EU choreography in Greenland:

  "These two gentlemen are actually going to cross paths at the Future Greenland conference. But...they don’t actually plan to speak to one another directly."
  — Nick Winica [08:09]

• Award-winner banter:

  "I expect my call to get any minute. Any minute now."
  — Nick Winica [09:38]

• On the multicultural message of Giannis Antetokounmpo:

  "Today he’s one of Greece’s biggest stars and a kind of symbol of a more multicultural version of European identity."
  — Nick Winica [11:46]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:19: Episode intro, today’s themes previewed
• 01:19–06:39: Hungary-Ukraine breakthrough; context on EU accession, minority rights
• 06:39–09:32: EU’s Arctic ambitions and US-EU maneuvering in Greenland
• 09:32–12:13: European Order of Merit awards; celebration of European and multicultural achievers
• 12:13–13:32: Listener feedback on museums
• 13:32–End: Light banter and episode wrap-up

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Conclusion

This episode gives listeners a tightly-reported, lively snapshot of Europe’s current diplomatic and cultural cross-currents: the fragile but promising Hungary-Ukraine dialogue, the quiet intensification of superpower rivalry in the Arctic, and Europe’s search for symbolic unity through new honors. With wit and in-depth reporting, it’s a brisk, engaging brief on what’s moving Brussels—and why it matters.

Transcript

[A]

Good morning, it's Tuesday the 19th of May, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is thawing because after years of Viktor Orban blocking Ukraine's EU path, Hungary and Ukraine are going to talk to each other today. And Brussels is wondering whether Budapest might finally be softening its position. Also on the podcast today, the EU is getting all cozy with Greenland despite, or rather probably because of Trump's America keep on circling the Arctic island. And thirdly, what the pop star Bono, former German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Yanis Antetokounmpo, otherwise known as the Greek freak, apparently have in common. We'll keep listening to find out and we'll tell you in a few minutes. I'm Ian Wishart and with me today is Nick Winica, Politico's chief foreign correspondent. Hello, Nick.

[B]

You deserve a round of applause for that pronunciation.

[A]

You said. You just, you just said you knew how to pronounce his name because.

[B]

Because Lil Wayne famously raps Antetokounmpo with something else for our hip hop fans

[A]

out there, which there are a lot. There's a big crossover between hip hop and the Brussels Playbook podcast, we're told.

[B]

Bigger than we think, I'm sure.

[A]

Shall we start with Hungary and Ukraine then? Because there's going to be a meeting today between experts from both countries. This would have been unthink a month or two ago, but the meetings about the rights of Hungarian minorities in Ukraine, that all sounds quite technical, but in Brussels, people are watching this very closely, aren't they?

[B]

Yeah. So the issue of the minorities in Hungary was Victor Orban's sort of big claim against Ukraine for months and months and months. And then sort of in the final months of his campaign, he switched over to a sort of maximalist line, saying he would just never let Ukraine into the eu. But it is there on the table and it sort of needs to be addressed. So the fact that we're now having this expert level talks in Ukraine about this, this issue is, is seen as a very positive sign. Another thing is Hungary's Foreign Minister, Anita Orban, no relation to the xpm, and Ukraine's foreign minister, had their first publicly acknowledged contacts over the weekend. So these are all good signs.

[A]

And I think people would be forgiven for thinking that Prime Minister Orban, the former prime minister, his objection to Ukraine joining the EU was a purely ideological one. But actually, as you were just explaining there, these rights of the Hungarian minority in Ukraine is very real for the people actually living in the country.

[B]

Absolutely. And it's an issue that cannot just be brushed away. I think that for Peter Magyar, the new Prime Minister, it was easy to sort of settle the question of rule of law and come to Brussels and ask to unfreeze that money. But the status of Ukraine and their

[A]

membership talks, this is something they've got to sort out. Is it the status of the minority in Ukraine?

[B]

They have to come to an agreement on the status of these minorities. And Ukraine has made proposals for months. They were rejected by or ignored by Hungary and now it looks like they may be accepting them.

[A]

And the timing's interesting, isn't it?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So Hungary, partly because of this issue, has been preventing Ukraine from opening formal negotiation clusters. So even while Kyiv has been de facto negotiating with the EU to join, the formal process is never really open because it requires unanimous support from all EU capitals. They've effectively been vetoing the progress. And now people are saying it's time to pay attention because this may finally sort of come unstuck.

[A]

You spoke to some Ukrainian officials yesterday. I know. What was the tone from them?

[B]

I think we're hearing a lot of optimism from Kyiv. They're talking about not just these contacts, but they're also looking to a potential meeting between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Peter Mad.

[A]

Oh, that would be huge.

[B]

Yep. They say, you know, that's in discussions and, and could sort of firm up in, in coming months. And of course that would be a major sea change.

[A]

So I suppose you can see today's meeting being sort of real preparation for eventually that type of high level meeting. I suppose.

[B]

Absolutely. Another thing we heard is that, you know, in those first conversations that Magyar had with Ursula von der Leyen and Antonio, president of the Commission and Council, the question of EU enlargement also came up. So they've been sounding him out on where he stands on this and the signals look pretty positive. I do get some people from the council saying, caution, this may not happen as fast as Kyiv wants. Keeves talking about, you know, as soon as next week opening this first cluster. They say just hold your horses. It could last a little longer than that.

[A]

So we just zoom out quite a lot actually, Nick, and just fill people in where we are on Ukraine's potential membership of the eu because not everybody reads every word that we write because they would have seen some reference to could Ukraine be joining the EU in 2027? No. Some countries oppose that. It could be a lot later than that. There's maybe partial membership. Where do we stand at the moment?

[B]

Yeah. So the timeline is really important because it's linked to the peace process. And if Zelenskyy is going to go to the Ukrainians and say, well, here's the peace deal, he really wants that promise of EU membership as a big selling point for them. So the Ukrainians are really set on this idea of 2027. Now the question is what in 2027? We spoke to the Foreign Minister last week and he said, we want a membership agreement. Just the deal that all countries agree

[A]

that we should be on track to join.

[B]

On track to join. Now, actual membership could still be years out because it has to be ratified by all the parliaments. And what we've seen is some of the member states, big member states like Germany, push back on this timeline and say, well, you're not going to get that big agreement. You could get something like associate membership in 2027.

[A]

So there's obviously lots of facets to this, but it's interesting that today's meeting is a very, maybe a very small part on that, part of progress, but it's obviously very significant. Nick, let's go to another country that's not quite in the eu. Greenland. It's a pretty big week there too, because they've got a European Commissioner there today. The EU Partnerships Commissioner, Joseph Sikela is heading. He's in Nuuk for a conference called Future Greenland. Can you put that into some context for us?

[B]

Right, so presumably the trip is to check in on EU investments in Greenland, to pop into the EU office newly opened in Nuuk, where five people are fully employed there, and to work on the Arctic strategy. But of course, there's a massive geopolitical back, which is that Donald Trump has said he wants to annex Greenland and has not given up on those plans.

[A]

I imagine the five people in the EU Greenland office sitting there with their bubble woolly hats on and with the EU flag knitted in them. Obviously, we know what happened a few months ago when Trump was making all these overtures to Greenland. And for people listening at home who don't quite know, Greenland isn't in the eu, it's part of the Kingdom of Denmark, but withdrew from what is now the EU in 1985. So there's a lot of geopolitics going on here as well. And I know you were quite interested in the fact that there's obviously a EU delegation there today, but there's also a US delegation as well. Will the two meet?

[B]

Yeah. So the choreography is quite interesting because you have Jeff Landry, who Trump has appointed his Special envoy to Greenland is also going to be there. He's made his first official trip to Greenland on Sunday. We're reading reports about delegation of 10 people traveling around in a five car convoy in Nuke. And these two gentlemen are actually going to cross paths at the future Greenland conference. But from the sources we spoke to, they don't actually plan to speak to one another directly.

[A]

Right. Interesting. Because people might think that everything had been sorted out and it has all gone quiet. But that's apparently not necessarily the case.

[B]

No, not at all. And Danish officials say it's not a dead issue. And there's a report in the New York Times which talks about ongoing closed door talks between the U.S. denmark and Greenland about the island's future. There's some plans to make U.S. claims to certain bases permanent. Give the U.S. veto rights over certain investments in Greenland Point attention their potential with the eu.

[A]

So what the EU is therefore doing is trying to pull Greenland closer to the eu. That that's kind of the strategy from the Brussels end. Right.

[B]

And the EU is, is investing heavily into Greenland. There was 225 million on the table under the current cycle. The commission has proposed to more than double that for the next long term budget cycle. Ursula von der Leyen is expected to make a trip up there. And of course a big part of this is about the critical raw materials that are under the ground in Greenland and this kind of race to have mining rights to develop these things. As you know, China and the United States compete over over these materials. The EU is obviously trying to move forward and lay a claim to what's under the ground in Greenland. Foreign.

[A]

So, Nick, should we talk about the first European Order of Merit awards? Are you excited?

[B]

I expect my call to get any minute. Any minute now.

[A]

It's the first batch of these. It's been created for the 75th anniversary of the Schumann Declaration, which we talked about a few weeks ago. So no need to remind people what the Schuman Declaration was. I'm sure you could do that very easily, Nick. But this is all happening in the European Parliament today in Strasbourg. And there are three categories of the first European Order of Merit awards. Nick.

[B]

Yeah, and this is disappointing to me because I just don't make the first rank. Distinguished members, presidents, prime ministers, heads of state.

[A]

No, you're not in that.

[B]

Nope. Honorable members, diplomats, humanitarian figures, intellectual scientists.

[A]

Nothing intellectual about you. Carry on.

[B]

I don't think we make the cut share either. Members of the order. This seems like this seems like everyone else could squeeze into this people from Culture, sports, music, celebrities.

[A]

Good. Well, the celebrities apparently in line for an award today include Bono from U2, if people remember that, from the 80s.

[B]

Oh, he's still around. He's in everyone's itunes.

[A]

And also, the former German Chancellor Angela Merkel is going to be in Strasbourg today. The former Polish President Valencia, who everybody will remember from the fight against communism, also in the 80s. There's a very 1980s vibe here. And Yavier Solana, the former European Commissioner and also the former NATO Secretary General. They're going to receive a badge, a ribbon and a certificate from Roberta Metzole, the European Parliament President. Nick.

[B]

That's right. And there's another fascinating name on the list, at least according to our producer who insisted we mention this is. This is the great freak, Giannis Antetokounmpo, huge NBA superstar mentioned by Lil Wayne himself, known as the Greek freak. He was born in Athens to Nigerian immigrant parents, spent years effectively undocumented before getting Greek citizenship in a big ceremony. So today he's one of Greece's biggest stars and a kind of symbol of a more multicultural version of European identity.

[A]

And if anybody wants to know, these laureates were selected by a committee, which is always the best way to choose things, I think. Roberta Metsola was on the committee. Michelle Barnier, the former Commissioner, Jose Manuel Barroso, the former Commission President, Josep Barrel, Enrico Letta. I mean, what's the criteria? Just anybody who's been pro European. I don't think Viktor Orban is going to get one soon, is he?

[B]

Probably not. This one, I don't know.

[A]

Perhaps we could ask you at home who you would choose if you were on that jury, who would you choose to get European Order of Merit? Who would you nominate? Who do you think deserves one? If you WhatsApp us, then we might read it out in the podcast tomorrow. Yesterday, Zoya asked for some of your favorite European museums and we had a couple people, or quite a few people write in actually. What are you doing?

[B]

This is a gesture of plenty. Our cup overflowing.

[A]

Yeah, there's plenty here. Joe from Australia likes the Pollen Museum, which is the museum of in the history of Polish Jews located on the side of the former Warsaw ghetto. Danny from the UK messaged us to say that he liked the Kunst Historica Museum in Vienna, which houses five millennia worth of artwork and valuable objects.

[B]

It's a lot of millennium.

[A]

These are quite heavy, these museums.

[B]

Exactly. Where's the comic book museum?

[A]

Kyle from Malta told us he likes the Warsaw Uprisings museum.

[B]

It left a great impression on him and how resilient a people can be. Thoughtful.

[A]

And our colleague Emma said she likes the Fenix Museum in Rotterdam. It's an art museum on the history of migration. She said it was excellent. That's one little bit more uplifting.

[B]

I feel smarter already.

[A]

That's what you get when you listen to the Playbook podcast, Nick.

[B]

I don't know if that qualifies us for Order of Merit, but.

[A]

All right, thanks for listening, everyone. We'll be back tomorrow morning. Have a good day.

[B]

It.