C (2:59)

No, I think what we saw was a real split reaction from the Europeans. I mean, we were reporting in the way into Munich that a lot of the diplomats wanted a reset, wanted to de escalate tensions. But what they're really talking about is they don't want to see the alliance fall apart before their eyes. They do realize that a lot of things need to change. So we had Ursula von der Leyen praising Rubio, saying she was very much reassured by the speech. But you also had the Finnish president Alexander Stubb, saying that the substance hadn't changed and pointing to MAGA ideology as a big divider between Europe and the United States. We had the EU's top diplomat, Kaia Kallas, also welcoming the speech, but pushing back on the idea that Europe needs saving. She said, contrary to what some may say woke decadent, Europe is not facing civilizational erasure and many countries still want to join our club and not just fellow Europeans. This is Europe's pushback to say we are attractive. We have cards, we have a lot of appeal to different countries in our neighborhood as part of the enlargement program. But also beyond that, Canada wanting to come closer to the eu trade deals being struck with India, with Latin American countries. That's part of the European argument, say, well, our model is attractive in its own right.

B (4:14)

Yeah. And Friedrich Merz, the German chancellor, he was another kind of leading voice that came out after this speech and said that essentially he was unconvinced, too. He gave a pretty rousing speech of his own in Munich that got noticed because he essentially said that, look, Europe's freedom is under threat. And he said there's a deep divide between Europe and the us so it was a pretty significant note. And he's also talking about a nuclear deterrent with France. What's that all about?

C (4:41)

This is something that has had some discussions but seems to be gathering steam. The idea that France, which is the only nuclear power in the European Union, could share its nuclear deterrent with other European countries and eventually kind of either complement or even supplant the US nuclear nuclear deterrent, which is currently extended to all NATO members. And that would be a very big shift indeed.

B (5:06)

Yeah, that's right, Nick. Look, it's one of those things that nuclear deterrent, it's a bit of a taboo in the past, but now we really are talking about it. Latvia, Estonia, Sweden, they're open to the idea. Of course, the Spanish Prime Minister, who is a socialist, Pedro Sanchez, less open to it, but nonetheless, we're going to hear more from Macron on this because he's going to deliver this big speech in March where he's likely to talk about this very thing. But it wasn't just nukes that Mertz mentioned in his speech. He also talked about China, and that was pretty key. So we know that the threat from Beijing is something that European leaders are starting to talk about more again. And Mertz accused Beijing and some pretty strident language of essentially exploiting Europe's economic dependencies and disrupting key industries. So that's been something that has been quite significant. And you've spoken to a key French official on this very topic. Tell us more about that. Yeah.

C (5:58)

So I caught up with Clement Boon, who was a core minister for Emmanuel Macron for many years, Transport minister, Europe minister. Now he's in charge of the High Commission for Planning, which kind of sounds like a Soviet Five Year Plan, but it's an organism that's funded by the state that advises the government. It's not really government policy, but it certainly feeds into their thinking. And he gave me a very hawkish interview about China. He said, look, Europe has been super distracted by Trump, but we really need to refocus on the issue of China, which, in his words, is continuing to wreak havoc on European industry. He cited the number of 10,000 industrial job losses per month in Germany that are being lost due to increasingly high quality exports from China. And he has also some pretty radical solutions that he wanted to put on the table, including a 30% tariff against certain Chinese imports. It's certainly the first time I'd heard that spoken on the record, but he's really putting that squarely on the table. And I agree with you. I think we're getting into a real China sequence after this big transatlantic moment.

B (7:05)

Yeah. What I'm hearing is that Clement Byrne has a bone to pick with Beijing. Try and say that three times fast. With that, let's move on to our second story. We are going to be talking about the finance ministers who are gathering in Brussels today for the Eurogroup meeting. They're going to discuss ideas on how to strengthen the international role of the euro. But it's probably going to get a bit feisty because they are also going to be Meeting while there is this kind of separate group developing. It's the format you dubbed S Club 6, which I really enjoy, but officially it's called the E6.

C (7:44)

So what we're talking about is the EU's six largest economies, France, Germany, Poland, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands, getting together as sort of a spearhead group to talk about certain sort of hard to achieve reforms. And they've met before, but now they're meeting in person, head of the Eurogroup. And the idea, as one diplomat from a participating nation described it to me, was to be a kind of tugboat for Europe pulling the tanker, the tanker being the other 21 countries of the European Union along and conducting sort of these reforms.

B (8:18)

I love that, Nick, because, you know, I was in Rotterdam this weekend and they have this thing called hot tugs, which is not what you think it is. It's these little dinghies that they fill up with hot water and people get in them and it's like a little portable hot tub tub, but it's a hot tug. So anyway, sorry, go on, Nick.

C (8:36)

I can hear people frantically Googling as you're saying that.

B (8:40)

Turn on your family filter.

C (8:42)

People in any case, call it the tugboat or the spearhead. But the idea is for these six countries to come together and to try to sort of coalesce around certain reforms. One of them that is being talked about is the Capital Markets Union. This is something that has been attempted again and again in E27 format, and it's always failed because countries have such a strong interest in keeping their own financial markets essentially under national supervision. Countries like Luxembourg, Ireland, opposed to the Capital Markets Union. This all started with a speech by then French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire, who said, we've got to move forward in smaller groups. So now we're really watching this. S Club 6, Seal Team 6, whatever you might want to call it, and see what they can do.

B (9:29)

Well, it's interesting because this is kind of echoing a lot of what we had at Olden Beeson last week, where I was at the informal European Council summit in the castle in the Belgian countryside. And the big topic of conversation that emerged was this idea of like, okay, well, we've got 27 members now, and some people want to move ahead with certain reforms, such as the Capital Markets Union, others don't. And so it will be sort of a coalition of the willing situation. The idea being that the people who want to move faster and be ambitious can move faster and be ambitious. Everyone else can watch and then maybe they'll join, maybe they won't. But really, Ursula von der Leyen said in her closing press conference, she said we should not be moving at the pace of the slowest, we should be moving further ahead. So it's similar to that idea, right, Nick? And it kind of makes sense. But the flip side of it is that it's tricky. Not everyone loves the idea of a supergroup deciding things before a meeting even starts. Right, yeah.

C (10:25)

So all the usual caveats apply here, and the first one would be that. But if you actually want to do an EU reform using enhanced cooperation, which is the idea that von der Leyen put on the table in Auld Andesen, you actually need a minimum of nine countries. So six doesn't cut it off the bat. You need to get a few others on board to have EU legislation get.

B (10:46)

On board the hot tug.

C (10:48)

They said they were not too worried about getting a few extra people on board the hot tug Express. The other concern is exclusivity, is having this small group which obviously excludes others. And the fear there is. Well, you get together as this group of six big economies, you're going to pre cook the decisions before we get a chance to discuss them at 27. That's not the spirit of the EU.

B (11:12)

All right, Nick, plenty more on this to come, I reckon. Let's get to our final topic. It's Brussels. And look, it's the first proper working day of a brand new Brussels regional government. Also my day of shame, Nick, because on this very podcast last week, I poo pooed the idea of a boucher breakthrough. And looky here, he's proved me right. Maybe he was listening to the podcast and he really felt like he needed to prove me wrong.

C (11:39)

I think that's probably what happened. It was your words straight to the gods of Brussels ears.

B (11:44)

Yeah, it took them 613 days. They've got a coalition deal. It's pretty interesting because they're going to face some pretty significant challenges. The main one being a budget deficit of over a billion euro. What else are they dealing with here in terms of. Tell us a little bit about this government.

C (12:01)

Right, so a new name to remember is Boris Dillies. He was sworn in on Saturday as the minister President. He'd been mayor of Ugle, kind of tony neighborhood near where I live. And recently an MP in the parliament for the Brussels Capital region. He's a member of the reformist movement, the same party that former Prime Minister Charles Michel and Sophie Wilmes belong to. And his main task is going to be the budget. As you said, there's a deficit of over a billion euros. We know that the Brussels government has written to the European Commission asking them to help fund renovations of Schuman Roundabout. We'll see where all that goes. And now the coalition says it wants to balance the budget by 2029 by making savings, merging parts of the regional administration and potentially some new taxes, if you can believe that.

B (12:51)

Is there room for more new taxes, Nick? That's what I'm wondering. All right, before we go, last week we asked you to send us some voice notes and messages about your loved ones or missed connections for Valentine's Day. And boy, did you deliver. We got some lovely messages and here's one of them from Amelia.

D (13:07)

Good morning, Zoya. I wanted to share my somebody that I've been keeping my eye on ahead of Valentine's Day this weekend, and that is a very handsome intern at the Dutch Ministry for Foreign affairs who I've been spying going in and out of the ministry building every morning in a very stylish dark brown suit. And how lucky am I because this, this good looking intern happens to be my very own boyfriend. He is not a stranger, but means the most to me and is the only person I can think of for Valentine's Day.

B (13:40)

Thanks so much, Amelia. That was lovely. And if you've got something to share with us, please send us a voice note or Write in our WhatsApp number is in the show notes. Finally, a quick birthday shout out to Portuguese Prime Minister Montenegro and to Thomas Tobay, the Swedish MEP and Vice Chair of the European People's Party Group.

C (13:57)

Plus, it's Lithuania's Restoration of the State Day. Parliament President Roberta Muzzola will be in Vilnius to mark the occasion.

B (14:05)

I hear it's going to be chilly when she delivers her speech and apparently it's going to be outside, so good luck, Roberta Rug up Cover up all right with that Brussels Playbook podcast is over for the day, but we're going to be back tomorrow. Nick, thank you for joining us.

C (14:19)

Thanks for having me, Zoya.

B (14:21)

Listeners, subscribe if you haven't already. Leave us a review. Five stars are the best number of stars. I'm Zora Shevdolovic. I'll be back with you tomorrow.

A (14:42)

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