Europe’s awkward embrace of Turkey

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brussels Playbook Podcast

Episode Title: Europe’s awkward embrace of Turkey
Date: June 30, 2026
Host: Zoya Sheftalovich (Chief EU Correspondent)
Guest: Ian Wishart

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Brief Overview

This episode of the Brussels Playbook Podcast dives into the EU’s complex, pragmatic, and often uneasy relationship with Turkey amid high-level diplomatic visits and ongoing migration challenges. The discussion also touches on a fiercely competitive EU recruitment process and the ongoing European heatwave—which raises questions about building infrastructure and climate preparedness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. EU’s High-Level Delegation to Turkey

[01:37–06:37]

• Who’s Visiting & Why

  • Three top EU officials—Foreign Policy Chief Kaja Kallas, Enlargement Commissioner Marta Kos, and Migration Commissioner Magnus Brunner—are visiting Turkey.
  • The official purpose is preparation for the upcoming NATO summit in Ankara (July 7), but the subtext is a renewed EU focus on migration and the broader, essential role Turkey plays in EU external relations.
  • "What that's doing is basically sending a signal of the extent to which Turkey is really important for the EU... when it comes to foreign policy, when it comes to enlargement, when it comes to migration." – Zoya ([01:56])

• Migration: The Heart of the Relationship

  • The ongoing migration deal (since 2016) is up for renewal by 2027, and the EU is keen to keep Turkey cooperative amidst increasing far-right pressure within the bloc.
  • EU provided €12 billion to Turkey to host migrants; a key measure during the height of the Syrian refugee influx. ([03:53])

• Political Complications

  • Turkey’s EU accession talks are "officially frozen" due to democratic backsliding under President Erdoğan.
  • The relationship is described as a “push, pull” dynamic over decades, oscillating between closer cooperation and discord.
  • “It’s sort of fluctuated for decades because obviously Turkey is officially a candidate to become a member of the EU. And then that was all sort of frozen...when Erdogan started becoming more…dictatorial.” – Ian ([02:41])
  • Example of democratic backsliding: the jailing of Istanbul’s mayor, seen as a political opponent to Erdoğan. ([04:46])

• Other Geopolitical Layers

  • Despite frozen relations, Turkey is a crucial NATO ally (second largest armed forces in NATO after the US) and a key supporter of Ukraine (while also maintaining ties with Russia).
  • “Europe wants to keep channels to Turkey open because they know how crucial it is that they can get to the Kremlin via Turkey.” – Ian ([05:40])
  • The EU’s connectivity agenda is also mentioned, positioning Turkey at the crossroads of EU, Central Asia, and the Belt and Road Initiative. ([06:02])

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2. EU's Grueling Recruitment Competition

[06:45–10:02]

• The Scale and Scope

  • The EU’s first major entry-level administrator recruitment in seven years has seen a huge surge of applicants—around 170,000 people vying for just 1,500 spots on the reserve list.
  • "170,000 people applied for jobs and...there are fewer than something like 1,500 places on the reserve list. That's not even a guaranteed job." – Zoya ([07:33])

• Tougher Selection Process

  • An extra elimination round is being added to cope with the overwhelming demand.
  • First test: basic reasoning (includes verbal, mathematical, and reading comprehension sections). Candidates get kicked out if they don't reach at least 10 out of 20 on each section.
  • "They chuck you out of the running if you don’t get more than 10 out of 20 questions right." – Zoya ([09:13])
  • The process is acknowledged as extremely competitive, with mental stress for applicants.

• Later Rounds

  • After the first tests (planned for October-November), there’s a knowledge round for those shortlisted—ultimately only a handful join the recruitment pool from which EU institutions hire.
  • "If you get through to that round, you can definitely stop listening to the podcast at that point, because you really need to put the hard work in." – Ian ([09:57])

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3. Europe’s Heatwave: Air Conditioning and Climate Policy

[10:12–13:39]

• The Summer Heat

  • Europe’s current heatwave is presenting real dangers; the WHO estimates 1,300 deaths so far with more expected as the heat moves east.
  • Discussion of how European buildings—unlike in the US—are rarely equipped with air conditioning (only 20% of EU households versus 90% in the US).
  • "It’s not something we’ve ever needed, really, is it? But as the world gets hotter...it’s clear people start thinking about it." – Ian ([11:15])

• Air Conditioning in the EU Institutions

  • At the European Commission headquarters, heat forced a floor-by-floor aircon shutdown, with lower (presumably more junior) staff affected first.
  • “It was a real upstairs, downstairs situation where, like, people on floor 1, 2, 3 lost their [air conditioning].” – Zoya ([11:58])
  • One official called it “feudalism” ([12:09]) — “the workers who were hot...the worker bees running hot and those upstairs, cool as a cucumber.” – Zoya ([12:21])
  • The Commission officially states no special treatment; it was due to logistical necessity.

• Policy Perspective

  • No official EU stance on air conditioning, according to Commission spokesperson Anna-Kaisa Ikonen ([12:39]).
  • However, chief spokesperson Dana Spinant (referred to as “Palopino” in transcript) says the heatwave is “a reminder of the importance of climate policy.” ([13:03])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Turkey is super key member of NATO, second largest armed forces after the US.” – Zoya ([04:34])
• “It’s a really mixed bag, isn’t it?” – Ian ([04:39]), on the complexity of the Turkey-EU relationship.
• “It feels like feudalism, because it was the workers who were hot…the worker bees running hot and those upstairs, cool as a cucumber.” – Zoya ([12:20])
• “If you’ve got 170,000 people going for it, you need to sort the wheat from the chaff, don’t you?” – Ian ([09:07])
• Listener shout-out: “Sveva, good luck…you’re the future of Europe!” – Zoya & Ian ([14:04])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:37] – Start of Turkey discussion, details of diplomatic visit.
• [03:09] – History and evolution of EU-Turkey relations.
• [04:46] – Political repression and the Istanbul mayor case.
• [05:40] – Turkey's role in Ukraine, Russia, and EU intelligence.
• [06:45] – Launch of EU recruitment competition segment.
• [09:13] – How elimination works in the EU test.
• [10:12] – Heatwave and air conditioning in Europe.
• [11:58] – Air conditioning inequality at EU headquarters.
• [12:39] – Commission’s official “no position” on air conditioning.
• [13:03] – Climate policy as heatwave reminder.
• [14:04] – Listener farewell (Sveva and the trainees).

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Tone and Style

Conversational, dryly humorous, informative, and grounded in real-time reporting and personal observation. Zoya and Ian bring a crisp, accessible tone, peppered with banter but focused on complex EU themes and the political realities underpinning Brussels’ big moves.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a window into how the EU balances geostrategic necessity with values in its fraught dealings with Turkey, the almost mythical difficulty of landing a Brussels job, and the practical (and political) struggle to keep cool—literally—in a changing climate. The hosts keep things relatable, informative, and human, connecting high-level policymaking with day-to-day life in Brussels.

Transcript

[Salesforce Sponsor]

Today's episode is brought to you by Salesforce. Salesforce is the world's number one AI CRM, helping businesses and governments of every size connect with the people they serve. From sales to service to citizen engagement and mission support, Salesforce@Genic AI works autonomously to power the world's most innovative companies, agencies and institutions, keeping humans in the driver's seat. Learn [e-mail] EU Good morning.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

It's Tuesday, June 30th, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is pragmatic as three of the EU's most senior figures head to Turkey. Also on the pod, Brussels is making a big recruitment competition even more brutal. And Europe's heat wave has just exposed how unprepared the continent is for extreme temperatures and made me desperate for an air conditioner. I'm Zoya Shekdlovich and with me today is Ian Wishart. Hey, Ian.

[Ian Wishart]

Hi, Zoya. Excited about tonight?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Pumped. Absolutely pumped. We're going to be recording our 100th episode special. It's going to be super fun, live

[Ian Wishart]

in front of a very exclusive audience.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Juicy, exclusy, every last one of them.

[Ian Wishart]

You can still listen to it in the normal way tomorrow.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

You can. And actually, if you want to be part of it, send us through the link in the WhatsApp.

[Ian Wishart]

Is it not too late?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

I mean, it's too late for them to come, but it's not too late for them to ask us a question, which we can then do in the Q and A portion.

[Ian Wishart]

So if you've always wanted to ask a question, this is the time to do it.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

This is it. Do it, please.

[Ian Wishart]

Shall we start with our stories today then?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

I would love to.

[Ian Wishart]

Should we start with Turkey? Tell us what's going on.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

So we've got three pretty big wigs from the EU arriving in Turkey today. We've got the EU's foreign policy chief, Kayakallas, the enlargement commissioner, Marta Kos, and the migration commissioner, Magnus Bruner.

[Ian Wishart]

And it's unusual, isn't it, to see big, a big group like that going somewhere outside of of the block?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

It is, but I think what that's doing is basically sending a signal of the extent to which Turkey is really important for the EU in these three areas when it comes to foreign policy, when it comes to EU enlargement, when it comes to migration, major kind of infrastructure stuff like it's pretty big.

[Ian Wishart]

Officially, they're preparing the NATO summit, aren't they? Because that's in Ankara.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

That's right. And that's just coming a few days before that, because that's kicking off on the 7th of July, I believe.

[Ian Wishart]

Correct.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

But unofficially, this is really part of the push that the EU is making when it comes to migration, because, as you know, this is something that EU countries have been talking about a fair bit. There are far right parties around the block that are gaining vote shares and the EU wants to look like it's got solutions to migration.

[Ian Wishart]

And it's really interesting and weird, actually, the relationship between the EU and Turkey and it's sort of fluctuated for. For. For decades because obviously Turkey is officially a candidate to become a member of the eu. And then that was all sort of frozen. Frozen when Erdogan started becoming more. More. What's the right word? Dictatorial, I suppose.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Autocratic.

[Ian Wishart]

Yeah. But then Turkey came closer, didn't they, during the migration crisis of 10 years or so ago?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah. So it's been push, pull. And basically there was a time, you know, that I remember really there was coverage of the fact that Turkey might become an EU member country. It was really KE Erdogan was more of a reformer.

[Ian Wishart]

Economy was doing great, wasn't it?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah. In the early parts of his. His regime.

[Ian Wishart]

Yeah.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Then he sort of had this attempted coup, failed Coup back in 2016, which was when essentially things took a turn, a very serious turn. But there's still this migration deal that the EU has with Turkey, which was signed back in 2016, where basically, in exchange for a bunch of EU funding, they. They take migrants back and they host them on this oil.

[Ian Wishart]

And the EU promised to give Turkey about 12 billion euros in 2016. And that was really at the height of the influx of refugees from Syria, wasn't it?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, that's right. And so this money was supposed to last, and the deal was supposed to last until 2027. We're now staring down the barrel of 2027. Migration still a key concern, and really the EU is having to kind of think to itself, okay, how do we ensure that this deal, when it expires doesn't go away, that Turkey is still cooperating, particularly considering the situation in the Middle east right now isn't exactly stable.

[Ian Wishart]

This relationship with Turkey is really strange. You know, negotiations over membership is officially frozen.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yep.

[Ian Wishart]

Since 2018, Turkey is a member of NATO.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

However, Turkey is super key member of NATO, second largest armed forces after the US.

[Ian Wishart]

But then you've obviously got the. The weird thing in Cyprus. You know, it's. It's such a mixed bag, isn't it?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

It is. And obviously also because of the backsliding on rule of law and on democracy since the attempted Coup back in 2016. It's very tricky for the EU. And I mean, the latest thing here is the mayor of Istanbul who is currently in prison on what he says and what his supporters claim are trumped up political charges. And Erdogan has sort of locked him away. He's seen as the greatest risk to Erdogan's regime.

[Ian Wishart]

Is it fair to say this is kind of a rapprochement, though? I mean, Kayakallas, the foreign policy chief, went there in 2025. Commissioner Koss was there in February. You know, they. They do talk to Turkey a lot.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, and that's because they have to. Turkey is really key when it comes to the war in Ukraine because it does support Ukraine. It's been selling weapons to Ukraine the whole time. The flip side of it is it's still talking to Moscow and there's. Everyone who's been on a Turkish beach knows that it's just Russian tourists.

[Ian Wishart]

Well, I think actually this is a really key point, Zoya, because Europe wants to keep channels to Turkey open because they know how crucial it is that they can get to the Kremlin via Turkey. You talk to people who speak to the intelligence community in Europe and they see Turkey as a real important conduit for that.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

They do. And there's also this fight for influence from, you know, the EU versus China perspective as well, because China has been investing in all sorts of countries and various projects with its Belt and Road initiative. Well, the EU has this new connectivity agenda platform and that's meant to improve transport, energy and digital links between Europe and Central Asia. And those routes run straight through the Black Sea region, the Southern caucuses and Turkey.

[Ian Wishart]

Okay, so that delegation from the EU there today, and I'm sure we'll hear in various press conferences and that kind of thing how it's gone.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, looking forward to it. Right. Oh, Ian, shall we go to story two?

[Ian Wishart]

Yes. This is about a way that budding European Union officials get their jobs, isn't it?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

It is. This is super interesting to a lot of people in our audience, I'd say, because we get a lot of whatsapps from people saying that they're studying for these tests by listening to us. I'm sorry, people, you've got better sorts of.

[Ian Wishart]

This might be a nice 15 minute respite, though.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

It might be indeed. Yeah, that's true.

[Ian Wishart]

Because I don't think we're really helping them with their. With their exams, are we? I don't think you find any answers here.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

I think you find a lot of questions. In any case, this is this big competition. It's the first one in seven years that they've had at the EU for entry level administrator jobs in the EU institutions. And this is a thing where, you know, over 170,000 people, or around about 170,000 people.

[Ian Wishart]

Reiki. What? Applied?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Applied.

[Ian Wishart]

Yeah, 170,000 people applied for jobs and

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

there are fewer than something like 1500 places on the reserve list. That's not even a guaranteed job. That's just for you to be on the list for them to pick from. So it's less than chances.

[Ian Wishart]

I was going to say your chances are really low.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah. In any case. So because the demand has been so insane, Ian, the EU has actually added an extra elimination round. Our colleague Gerardo Fortuna reports.

[Ian Wishart]

The World cup.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

It is. Yeah.

[Ian Wishart]

So tell us about this round, then. So you go through two stages now, don't you?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, that's right. So now there's going to be a test that people are going to find out about. They're only going to get a few weeks of notice to say that they're going to be sitting this test. And that test will allow the elimination of a bunch of those candidates to make it easier, because 170,000 applications is just too many for anyone to.

[Ian Wishart]

First test, apparently, is basic reasoning. And you have to pass that to go into the second round.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah. And there's going to be just as well.

[Ian Wishart]

You don't want a bunch of thickos in the European Commission.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yes. So there's basically three sections here. So they've got a verbal section, then they've got a math section, and then they've got to, like, read something and answer a bunch of questions about it.

[Ian Wishart]

And these tests. October, November this year. I see.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah.

[Ian Wishart]

So that's. People can still revise for that, then, because it's apparently it's not about sort of memorizing facts about the EU as much about being able to process information quickly, which I guess is a good thing. Really.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah. And I saw actually, I saw a practice question that someone showed me at a party the other day.

[Ian Wishart]

That was a good party.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

It was wild. Wild. And it was a maths one.

[Ian Wishart]

Yeah.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

And it was really hard.

[Ian Wishart]

Not surprised. Well, I mean, if you got 170,000 people going for it, you need to sort the wheat from the shaft, don't you?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

You do. And actually you're supposed to. So they basically chuck you out of the running floor. They chuck you out of the running if you don't get more than 10 out of 20 questions. Right, so each section has 10 questions. Sorry, 20 questions? Yeah, you've got to get 10 or you're.

[Ian Wishart]

Wow, that's tough.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, it must be tough.

[Ian Wishart]

I mean, seriously, I don't envy these people going through this when it's such a. Such low odds of ever getting a job and you're putting so much in, you know, the effort you have to put into it and the stress and all that kind of thing. It's not easy.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

And this is just the first round. And then after that they've got to have an EU knowledge test, which is the next round, where they're going to have a shortlisted bunch of candidates, and then there's going to be the 1500 in the pool from which the European Commission, Council and Parliament get to pick their stuff.

[Ian Wishart]

Well, I think if you got through to that round, you can definitely stop listening to the podcast at that point, because you really need to put the hard work in.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

No, Ian, don't tell people they've got to listen for studying. They'd better be listening every day. Ms. No episodes.

[Ian Wishart]

Well, I wonder if there's going to be a question about air conditioning.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Oh, now there's a segue. Ian, let's talk. Air conditioning today is not so bad. It's like back to the mid-20s, but

[Ian Wishart]

it still feels quite hot to me,

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

to be honest, because the buildings absorb the heat and then, like, I absorb the heat. Yeah, and it takes a little while for you to desorb it, but desorbit we must. Actually, it's worth mentioning, you know, the World Health Organization said that this heat wave killed around 1300 people. And by the way, it's not even over, it's just moved east, so it could still rise.

[Ian Wishart]

But this question about whether buildings in Europe should get air conditioning is really interesting. Anybody who's been to the US knows that most houses and flats and that kind of thing does have air conditioning. You just walk in and suddenly it's really cold. You don't get that here.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, it's like 90% in the US. 90% of places households have air conditioning in the US and it's one in five here.

[Ian Wishart]

I thought it'd be lower, actually. I mean, I don't really know anybody who's got it here, do you? I suppose in terms of offices and things like that, I suppose do.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

This is households, though.

[Ian Wishart]

Households, yeah. I'm surprised it's many. It's just not something we've ever needed, really, is it? But as the world gets hotter and as Europe gets hotter, it's clear that people start thinking about it, because you have to be able to live and work in a place that's comfortable.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, you do. Well, actually, speaking of living and working in a place that's comfortable, Ursula von der Lyon Bom Tish Segway. She famously both lives and works in the Berlamont. And last week, in fact, things got so bad on Friday, the heatway was so bad that the Bellomont, which is the Commission's headquarters here in Brussels, had to switch off their air conditioning and they went floor by floor and basically the first floors to go with the lowest floor. So it was a real upstairs, downstairs situation where, like, people on floor 1, 2, 3 lost their.

[Ian Wishart]

So the plebs were sweating while the commissioners were higher up in the building.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Fine. Commissioners are level eight up. And so they were towards the back end of the shutdown.

[Ian Wishart]

So people weren't particularly happy about this.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

I bet they weren't. So we've seen some interesting messages that were flurrying around from various colleagues and one official called it feudalism because it

[Ian Wishart]

was the workers who were hot.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yep. The worker bees running hot and those upstairs, cool as a cucumber.

[Ian Wishart]

Although, let's be fair, the Commission did say there was no special treatment for the commissioners, didn't they? And it was just a logistics thing.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, they said basically that they were having to shut off the air conditioning gradually. And of course, we know warm air rises, so they were going bottom up.

[Ian Wishart]

Right.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

They've said. But actually, you know, the Commission was asked about this yesterday at the midday briefing. That's these daily briefings that the Commission has for the press. And the spokesperson, Anna Kaiser Ikonen, said that the EU has no position, pro or contra, on whether people should be installing ac.

[Ian Wishart]

I suppose that's fair enough. You wouldn't expect the European Commission to have a position on that, would you? I mean, they can't do everything.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, yeah, this is true. But the chief spokesperson, Palopino, she said that, yes, while air conditioning is a matter for people to choose for themselves, the heat wave is actually a reminder of the importance of climate policy.

[Ian Wishart]

I mean, it is. I mean, it is. It just underlines, as we said the other day, underlines all of that. And the reason people are against air conditioning is that it takes a lot of energy itself. And does that make the climate crisis worse?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Yeah, that's a real tension, Ian.

[Ian Wishart]

So have a manual fan instead. Right. That's kept you quiet. So we end the podcast.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Before we end the podcast, Ian, we've actually had such a sweet message from one of our listeners. It's from Sveva, who is a trainee at the council from Italy. She's written in and she said that today will be the last day of the traineeship for her and 50 other trainees. And she writes in. It was a super rewarding experience and we all collectively listened to the Brussels pod. Will you say hello to all of us and wish us luck for our future? Thanks a lot. Love the pod. Sveva, good luck.

[Ian Wishart]

That's lovely. Svaba, thank you very much. And yeah, good luck and thanks for listening. And you're the future of Europe.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Thanks, dad. All right, folks, before we go, as we said earlier, we're recording our 100th episode live in front of an audience tonight here in Brussels. We've been banging on about it for a while, haven't we, Ian?

[Ian Wishart]

It'll be weird recording this podcast in an evening, won't it?

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Well, we'll see. We'll see. Folks, send us those questions and you might here at the podcast sound a little different tomorrow. So please tune in and actually rate us, review us so that people know that we're here so they can tune in for the first live episode.

[Ian Wishart]

And if you're coming, we'll see you tonight. Otherwise, we'll speak to you tomorrow.

[Zoya Shekdlovich]

Bye.

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