Europe's Palantir problem

Summary

Brussels Playbook Podcast: "Europe's Palantir Problem"

Date: August 5, 2026
Host: Zoya Sheftalovich (A)
Guest: Ian Wishart (B), Senior EU Politics Editor
Duration: ~13 minutes

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Episode Overview

Today’s episode explores the EU’s uneasy entanglement with the US tech giant Palantir, highlighting concerns over technological dependence, political sensitivities, and data sovereignty with American tech. The hosts also discuss an exclusive interview with Mediterranean Commissioner Dubravka Šuica, delve into the shifting Mediterranean political landscape, and take a lighter turn with the EU’s latest additions to its protected geographical indications list.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ceuta Migrant Crisis Update (00:44–01:49)

• Context:
  The EU Home Affairs Ministers met online to address the migrant influx in the Spanish exclave of Ceuta, with 72,000 new arrivals reported last week.
• Resolution:
  Spain initially faced criticism but saw fellow EU states rally in support after diplomatic tensions.
  • Notable quote:
    “One diplomat told me that it was kind of like couples counseling, the last 48 hours of diplomacy.” — Zoya (01:41)
• Outcome:
  70,000 migrants reportedly returned, illustrating a rare show of EU unity despite earlier discord.

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2. Europe’s Palantir Dependence and Tech Sovereignty (01:49–06:41)

• Background:
  Palantir, the powerful US data analytics firm, is deeply embedded across Europe's government, defense, and health systems.
• Political Sensitivities:
  Peter Thiel’s controversial standing as cofounder is cited as a factor in EU anxieties over Palantir.
  • Quote:
    “One of its cofounders is Peter Thiel, who’s... in the Trump MAGA camp, a big backer of Trump, and he has said some pretty interesting things about free speech.” — Zoya (02:49)
• Comparison to Chinese Tech:
  Unlike a decade ago, when fear centered around Chinese tech, many now worry US tech also endangers European sovereignty.
  • Quote:
    “Where 10 years or so ago people might have been worried about using Chinese tech, we’ve now got to the stage where governments think US tech might not be exactly what they want... not good for European sovereignty and data protection.” — Ian (03:02)
• Palantir’s Market Entrances:
  The company seized opportunities post-crises (Paris 2015, Germany attacks) to expand across EU member states.
• Product Appeal:
  Philippe Latombe (French MP, digital sovereignty advocate) likened Palantir’s allure to Coca-Cola and sugar:
  • Quote:
    “Let’s be honest, Palantir’s product is very good and addictive — it’s pretty much like sugar and Coca-Cola.” — Quoted by Ian (04:14)
• EU Alternatives:
  French firm ChapsVision (jokingly described as sounding like “an optician’s for men” or “a gentleman’s hat shop”) has been adopted by French and German intelligence services. However, it’s limited in scope.
  • Quote:
    “You can use these rivals, these European rivals, for some things...” — Zoya (05:12)
• NATO & Battlefield Capabilities:
  NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander, Admiral Pierre Van Deer, told POLITICO there’s “no viable alternative” to Palantir for battlefield AI.
  • Quote:
    “Palantir has an unmatched ability to sift through satellite imagery to identify a target, then advise on the weapon to use... and automatically put in an order to replenish the stocks... That’s astonishing.” — Zoya (05:37)
• Tax Contention:
  A new study found Palantir pays “not a hell of a lot” of tax in Europe despite significant earnings.
  • Quote: “It’s making loads of money here, but it’s not paying that much in the tax.” — Zoya (06:23)
  • Further details available in POLITICO's reporting by Antoinette Roussi.

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3. Interview Spotlight: Dubravka Šuica, Mediterranean Commissioner (06:41–09:32)

• Role & Background:
  Šuica’s relatively new portfolio has grown far more challenging amid recent geopolitical crises (Gaza conflict, Iran war, migrant spikes).
  • Quote:
    “She has had her workload explode.” — Zoya (07:41)
• Controversy & Diplomacy:
  Šuica attended Donald Trump’s “Board of Peace” meeting as an observer, sparking criticism for seemingly legitimizing Trump’s initiative.
  • Quote:
    “There were some critics... who said she shouldn’t have gone as an observer because it lent credence to Donald Trump’s Board of Peace.” — Zoya (08:31)
• Commissioners as People:
  Šuica admitted personal hurt from criticism, showing vulnerability often unseen in top officials.
  • Quote:
    “She said the criticism stung...She felt it personally.” — Ian (09:12)
• Engagement with Israel:
  She emphasized the need to keep negotiations open, especially ahead of Israel’s October elections, and acknowledged the devastation in Gaza without justifying it.

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4. EU Geographical Indications – New Additions (10:07–12:34)

• Explanation:
  EU’s GI labels protect region-specific food and drinks. Notable products include Parmigiano Reggiano, feta, and champagne.
• New Entrants:
  • Spanish ham: “Pernil Careta” — white, non-Iberian pork, dry-cured with pepper (11:13)
  • Spanish olive oil: “Aceituna de la Sierras Espadán y Calderona” — fruity, sweet olives from Valencia (11:28)
  • Polish apple: “Jabłka Krajenski” — firmer, higher sugar content (12:07)
• Favorite GI Products:
  • Ian: Cornish pasty (formerly a point of EU debate, now with post-Brexit status)
  • Zoya: Playfully threatens to make Ian taste exotic products live on-air.
• Memorable Moment:
  Ian reveals he’s allergic to apples, surprising Zoya:
  • Quote:
    “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You’re allergic to apples? That’s the most Ian thing I’ve heard today.” — Zoya (12:22–12:29)

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5. Closing Banter and Listener Engagement (12:34–13:31)

• Birthdays:
  Valdis Dombrovskis (EU Commissioner), Marine Le Pen (French far-right leader)
• Summer Break:
  Announcement of upcoming hiatus; Ian will return at the end of August.
• Call to Action:
  Listeners invited to share favorite geographical indications for possible live tastings:
  • Quote:
    “What’s a good thing from your country or someone else’s country? Let us know, we might try it live on air one day. I might force feed Ian something exotic.” — Zoya (12:37–12:53)
• Signature Light-Hearted Tone:
  Jokes about pronunciation, food, and allergies underscore the accessible, conversational style.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “One diplomat told me that it was kind of like couples counseling, the last 48 hours of diplomacy.”
  — Zoya (01:41)
• “Let’s be honest, Palantir’s product is very good and addictive — it’s pretty much like sugar and Coca-Cola.”
  — Philippe Latombe (quoted by Ian, 04:14)
• “Palantir has an unmatched ability to sift through satellite imagery to identify a target… That’s astonishing.”
  — Zoya (05:37)
• “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You’re allergic to apples? That’s the most Ian thing I’ve heard today.”
  — Zoya (12:22–12:29)
• “What’s a good thing from your country or someone else’s country? Let us know, we might try it live on air one day. I might force feed Ian something exotic.”
  — Zoya (12:37–12:53)

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Episode Flow & Tone

The conversation balances sharp political analysis and reporting with witty repartee and playful sidebars, maintaining the signature Brussels Playbook accessibility. The presenters offer keen insights into EU power dynamics and policy debates, while the episode’s lighter moments (food labels, personal quirks) keep it energetic and approachable.

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For more details, visit POLITICO’s full articles on the Palantir controversy and EU tax issues, and listen for further discussions on EU politics after the summer break.

Transcript

[A]

Good morning. It's Wednesday, August 5th, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is entangled as Europe tries to detach itself from the American data analytics company Palantir. Also on the pod, we interviewed Mediterranean Commissioner Dubravka schwitzer. And finally, three new products have been added to the EU's geographical indication list.

[B]

Woo.

[A]

I knew you'd be excited about that one, Ian. They join Halloumi in the pile of things you love.

[B]

God.

[A]

I'm Zora Shiftilovich and with me today is our senior EU politics editor, Ian Wishard. Hey, Ian.

[B]

Hello, Zoya. Here I am again. Are you bored of me yet?

[A]

Not even a little bit, Ian, Every day you bring me something new and sunshine, usually. Yeah, that's true. You are known for your sunshine. Hey, Ian, before we get started, I'm just going to give a little update on this Ceuta crisis which has been brewing over the past week.

[B]

There was a meeting yesterday, wasn't there?

[A]

Online there was, of the EU's various Home Affairs Ministers. It was interesting. So they gave an update in terms of the total number of migrants who arrived in this African exclave last week, and that was 72,000. And the Spanish minister said that 70,000 of those have already returned.

[B]

They're still all angry with. With Spain?

[A]

No, they've really changed their tune. And that was kind of interesting. So everyone has rode in behind Spain. I think they realized that there had been a pretty significant backlash to Spain. Spain was really upset by them. By them. Exactly. And they got kind of a bit cowed and they were accused by Spain of spreading misinformation, disinformation. So they kind of fell back into line. One diplomat told me that it was kind of like couples counseling. The last 48 hours of diplomacy.

[B]

EU unity wins out again. Who'd have guessed it?

[A]

You might have the day prior. Well, anyway, let's get to our first big story of the day. It is about the EU's little tech habit and it wants to kick it. Basically, this is the EU's ongoing struggle to get rid of American technology in its systems. There's a story out from Politico, from our colleague Antoinetta Rusi, about Palantir, which is a big old data analytics company.

[B]

Yeah. This company is deeply embedded in a lot of European government systems and defense systems and policing and things like that.

[A]

Health systems, too.

[B]

Health. Local government is used a lot by NATO. It's used by the National Health Service. In the. More than. More than most places in the world, people feel a Bit jittery about it, don't they?

[A]

They do. And in part it's because of the people who run Palantir. So obviously not only is it a big US tech firm, but also one of its co founders is Peter Thiel, who's quite a controversial person over in the U.S. yeah.

[B]

What do you know about him?

[A]

Well, he's in kind of the Trump MAGA camp, a big backer of Trump, and he has said some pretty interesting things about free speech. He's kind of seen as a real far right, kind scion in the U.S. yeah.

[B]

So a lot of this is down to politics, pure and simple. Where 10 years or so ago people might have been worried about using Chinese tech, we've now got to the stage where governments think US Tech might not be exactly what they want, and that's not good for European sovereignty and data protection.

[A]

Although I've been doing this job long enough, Ian, here in Brussels, to know that this isn't too dissimilar from the conversation we were having 10 years ago about US tech as well. Even then. Back then it was about privacy concerns and the EU was worried after some revelations about data mining and harvesting that the US Government was doing and potentially the NSA was doing. Now the concern is that these private companies, Palantir being a huge one, I mean, it's worth over US$330 billion, that they have access to this super, super sensitive information. And what was interesting to me in this story was the times when Palantir kind of comes to the fore and enters a market. So it happened after the Paris terror attacks back in 2015. They kind of quickly came to France and said, hey, look, you can use our stuff to do mass analytics of your police databases. And after a German terror attack, they came to Germany and offered similar services.

[B]

I love this. Sorry, Zoe. I love. Because it's connected to that. I love this quote from the French digital sovereignty advocate, somebody called Philippe Latombe, who said in Tony's story, let's be honest, Palantir's product is very good and addictive. It's pretty much like sugar and Coca Cola.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, who knows sugar better than the Americans anyway? So now there is this big conversation that's being had among EU governments who are saying, hey, we should be a little bit concerned. We can't necessarily rely on US Tech in the way that we thought that we could. Particularly because the US has been at loggerheads with Europe over a lot of things, such as what the US Deems restrictive regulation. And the EU says Well, that's just our rules, so that's definitely something that has been boiling over. The problem is, does Europe actually have an alternative option?

[B]

Well, there's this French company, isn't there, called Chaps Vision, which apparently is a. Is a French rival.

[A]

That's an interesting choice of name, but

[B]

yes, like an optician's for men, doesn't it?

[A]

I thought it sounded like a proper English gentleman's hat shop. Anyway, German intelligence agencies use Chaps Vision, but the problem is, look, I think one of the elements of this reporting is that you can use these rivals, these European rivals for some things.

[B]

But, well, the friend. The French and German intelligence services have started using Chapter Vision as of last month. So that shows that there are alternatives to the American.

[A]

Yeah, but then again, some people say, look. So we spoke with a NATO official, NATO's supreme allied commander, Admiral Pierre Van Deer, and he recently told Politico that there is no viable alternative to Palantir's battlefield AI technology for NATO. So he said there's nothing even close. Another NATO official actually said that Palantir has an unmatched ability to sift through satellite imagery to identify a target, then advise on the weapon to use to strike that target, inform the person how much ammunition is required, and automatically put in an order to replenish the stocks that are going to use. That's astonishing.

[B]

That's a lot of responsibility to put in the hands of an American company.

[A]

It is. Of any company, really, that non European

[B]

company, if you're European, anyway.

[A]

Yeah, indeed, indeed.

[B]

There's also a tax element to this, isn't there?

[A]

Yeah, that's right. There was a study that came out overnight looking at Palantir's earnings, which found basically that it's not paying a hell of a lot of tax to Europe. So it's making loads of money here, but it's not paying that much in the tax.

[B]

Sure. That's not helping the case.

[A]

Absolutely not. I reckon the EU wants a little. A little delicious tax revenue.

[B]

Okay, Zoya. And if anyone wants to read more about the tax issues here, there's another story that Antoinetta has done for us this morning that's available for people to read on the website. So, yeah, let's talk about an interview we've got out on Playbook this morning with the European Commissioner for the Mediterranean, the Croatian Dubravka, Switzerland. She's a very, very fascinating person playing a fascinating role, anyway, because when the European Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen, needs to send someone abroad, she tends to send her and that's caused some conflict in the past with Foreign Affairs Chief Kayakalas.

[A]

Yes. So this is kind of an interesting one. So basically, when Dubravka Schwitze was appointed as the Mediterranean Commissioner, I remember there was some, like, murmurings around of what kind of job is that? It was a new portfolio, and who

[B]

would have thought how busy it could become?

[A]

Yeah. And Dubrav Kashmir actually told our colleague Seb Starchevic that she has had her workload explode. So, of course, the October 7th attacks and the ensuing war in Gaza was one thing, and that happened before she was appointed. But since then, she's had this war in Iran that she's been dealing with. There's been even, I mean, this migrant crisis that we've been talking about on the show this week. She was one of the two commissioners tasked with looking into it. So she's definitely. She's getting around.

[B]

Yeah. She said that when she started the job, Assad was still in Syria, the leader who was opposed there was no war between Lebanon and Israel. So these are all things that she's had to deal with.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. And of course, famously, debratka Schwitzer is the commissioner who went and joined Donald Trump's meeting of the Board of Peace back in February as an observer.

[B]

Well, this is when she really got high profile, wasn't it?

[A]

Yeah. And I remember the conversation around that when that was happening, because there were some critics of Ursula von der Leyen and of Schweizer herself who said that she shouldn't have gone and joined this meeting. She shouldn't have gone as an observer because it lent credence to Donald Trump's Board of Peace. But she actually says to Seb in this interview, she said, well, we need to talk to these parties. We need to be there. And she talked about the fact that one of the dividends that was borne out as a result of going to the Board of Peace was that Jared Kushner, Donald Trump's son in law and the guy who's kind of managing this diplomacy with Israel and diplomacy in the Middle east for Trump, he actually ended up coming to the Palestinian donor group meeting that the EU hosted, which, by the way, was a story Politico broke.

[B]

She said the criticism stung, though, the criticism of her joining the Board of Peace. She felt it personally.

[A]

Yeah, she does say that, which is quite interesting, because we don't really think about commissioners as people with like. No, you think of them as like, these kind of iron people who don't get hurt. When you write something that's not very nice but turns out they don't like it.

[B]

No. Like journalists.

[A]

Yeah, it's true. Thin skinned as we are. The other thing that Shweetza told Seb about was the fact that she thinks it's really important to keep engaging with Israel. She said, look, obviously what happened in Gaza, nobody can justify it, that's been devastating. But she said, we do need to engage with Israel, we need to talk to them, we need to keep this negotiations going. And it's particularly problematic to make any really critical statements before this October election. Ian, have you got a favorite geographical indication?

[B]

I thought you'd never ask. I have actually. Cornish pasty.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

When I first came to Brussels, that was the big. The big one. Is the EU going to recognize Cornish pasties as only being able to be baked in Cornwall and have the special, have the special shape. But of course that's all gone out the window now with Brexit.

[A]

Don't they get to keep it?

[B]

Because I think the UK have sort of carried over the list.

[A]

Yeah. Anyway, we should tell people why we're talking about this. These are the labels that the EU has which basically say that this particular product, and it's usually food products but not always food, it's drinks and things like that. That. That product, every step of production happens in a specific region in a specific special way. So people might be familiar with Parmigiano, Reggiano, feta, queso, manchego.

[B]

Is it all cheese?

[A]

No. There's also champagne for us.

[B]

Sounds like a great night.

[A]

Yeah. Halloumi is in there too, Ian.

[B]

Sounds like a great night.

[A]

Yeah, well, anyway, there's three new products that have just been added to the list which has been approved by the eu. Two of them are from Spain and one from Poland. And I think you're going to pronounce the Spanish ones, Ian, after all of the splaging Spanish.

[B]

But I'll try Perennial Careta. It's ham.

[A]

Oh, yummy.

[B]

Yeah. A white non Iberian breed of pig, cured for seven months, not smoked but dry cured in pepper. Oh, I don't know for the vegetarians.

[A]

Well, there is one for the vegetarians which is the Asieta de la Sierras Espadan y Calderona, a type of olive.

[B]

But by the way, people can WhatsApp us with the proper pronunciations, can't they?

[A]

Yes, please do.

[B]

This is a type of extra virgin and virgin olive oil producing the mountainous northern part of the Valencian region.

[A]

Apparently those local olives are sweet, smooth and Fruity, just like you. Actually, no, I take that back, because you're not very sweet. There's a last one, and that one is the. It's a Polish apple. I think this one's for me to pronounce. Yapka Krajenski.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's a particular apple that has a higher sugar content than normal and it's firmer than other apples.

[B]

Nice. Yeah, I'm allergic to apples, so I can't.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, let's talk about that another day. Move on.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're allergic to apples?

[B]

Yeah, I am, unfortunately.

[A]

That's the most Ian thing I've heard today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, there's already, like, 3900 geographical indicators.

[B]

Now we're going to go through all of them, and that's the end of the podcast.

[A]

No, wait, wait, wait. I want to ask people what their favorite geographical indication is. You probably saw it coming, folks, but that's what I'd like to know. What's a good thing from your country or someone else's country? Let us know. We might try it live on air one day. I might force feed Ian something exotic.

[B]

Maybe some Iberian ham.

[A]

You've never had that before. All right, that's about it from us today. But there are a couple of interesting birthdays happening today. So, first off, the EU's Latvian commissioner, Valdost Dombrovskas, operating. Yep. He's your bestie. And French far right politician, Marine Le Pen.

[B]

Know her less. Well.

[A]

Well, I don't know. I saw her at your party.

[B]

That's it for me for the summer. Zoya, I know you're with Sarah tomorrow, and then we're off for a couple of weeks.

[A]

We are. Oh, no. Now we're breaking it to people that we're going to go on hiatus while you sun yourself somewhere.

[B]

So I'll see you at the end of August.

[A]

See you then.

[B]

Behave yourself.

[A]

I will.