D (3:12)

Yeah.

C (3:13)

And we are hearing some enthusiasm for this idea from some candidate countries being like, yeah, cool, give us access to Schengen, give us access to the Common Market, we can deal with not being full members. That's the take from some of the accession countries. But what are we hearing about what ambassadors told Zybert last night?

B (3:32)

Yeah. So this idea, it's not a particularly popular one in the European Council, if I'm being honest, Sarah. And a lot of countries are against it. They don't want to allow Ukraine specifically in this case, because I think that's really. When we're talking about this story, it is mainly about Ukraine. A lot of EU countries, including some of Ukraine's big backers. What they said last night is something that they've been saying for the last couple of weeks. And this is. Has been coming up in the reporting that my colleagues and I have been doing. They're saying, hold on, hold on. We don't want to lower the bar for EU entry, because the whole point of EU standards and EU reforms is that is how you get the benefits of EU membership, it's by undertaking those reforms. So they're against this idea and they do feel that, you know, beyond Seibert and Ursula von der Ley and his boss might be pushing a little bit far into their wheelhouse by asking them to change the rules around accession. Yeah.

C (4:27)

And I mean, some of these tensions came up actually, in a really interesting discussion that I heard yesterday with Ivan Krasdev. He's a Bulgarian political scientist, a really respected thinker, and he was saying, look, on the one hand, you know, if you have countries that are working to integrate with the EU for 30 years and they just still can't make it, then that is going to induce cynicism. He also talked about the potential for the EU to, you know, move on from just discussing with countries about, like, okay, can we close this chapter? For can we close that chapter? Or can they move on to more saying, okay, you're going to be in the EU in 10 years. So does that mean we let you participate more in the discussions about what the EU will look like in 10 years? And that will be a really interesting development.

B (5:15)

Super interesting, Sarah, because it's similar to what I heard last week when I was in Ukraine with the EU's Enlargement Commissioner, Marta Kos, who was talking to me on the ground, and she said, zoya, something has to change about the EU's accession process.

D (5:28)

We have to have a broader discussion inside the European Union with the member states about the methodology of the accession process, which is not suitable anymore for the times we are living in. You know, this methodology is good for peace. It is good when we have time, both member states and also the candidates. If we will not be able to integrate our candidates into the EU shortly, then there is a danger that someone else will be more influential in those countries and using them against us.

B (6:08)

Whether it is this reverse enlargement process or it's one of the other three ideas that Bjorn Seibert gave the EU ambassadors last night about reforming that accession process, something has to give because it has just been too difficult ever since the last expansion of the bloc to add new countries. All right, Sarah, let's move on to our second story today. It is about surprise, surprise, the war in Iran and how the EU is preparing for the fallout. Now, we've got two super interesting meetings happening in Brussels today. Firstly, we've got the EU Foreign affairs ministers meeting. Now, that's not quite in the EU because it's over vtc, it's a video call, and they're going to be joined by their Gulf counterparts this time, which is quite an unusual thing. And of course, it's the countries that have been directly affected by the war, those that have been hit by Iran. And we also have a separate meeting which is the Home affairs ministers from around the block who are also gathering today. Let's start with the Foreign Affairs Council.

C (7:08)

Yeah, we have to just kind of step back and see sort of the remarkable turnabout that has happened, like. So the Foreign Affairs Council is inviting a Gulf Cooperation Council, foreign ministers to participate. And these are countries like Saudi Arabia, like the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and many of these countries were essentially pariahs in the EU just a few years ago. But actually under Council President Charles Michel, they started inviting them back into the fold. There's a need for their energy resources. Of course, they're in a very strategic location. So, yeah, now we're seeing quite this turnabout with these GCC foreign ministers being invited to participate in this EU meeting with the goal of, and to quote a European External Action Service spokesman person, to express EU solidarity and work jointly towards de escalation, safeguarding regional security and respect of international law. That is the world Trump has created.

B (8:07)

Yes, and not just Trump, but also Vladimir Putin, the Russian president. Because the EU is now having to diversify its energy and guess where it's finding it in the Middle East. But I think it is a super interesting Foreign Affairs Council in any case, because the EU has been sort of steering clear of getting too closely involved. And we saw just the other day Iran say that if anyone gets involved, if anyone allows the US to use their bases, then we're going to take that as you are a party to this conflict and we're going to attack you. So there is this balancing act with the EU not wanting to essentially be seen as being a party to the war in case that it gets attacked, but also wanting to ensure that firstly, its citizens are safe, but also its interests are safe. Because you know that the danger and the fear is that what this does to energy prices crisis could have huge repercussions on the EU as well. So that's part of the meeting. They're also going to be talking about repatriation, so how to get their citizens safely out of any danger.

D (9:05)

Yeah.

C (9:05)

And of course, Iran is looming large over the Home Affairs Ministers meeting happening today as well. That is going to be focused on migration. Of course, that's been a consuming issue for the bloc in general, very politically charged, but right now they are especially afraid that a lot of people will be fleeing the region due to renewed violence there.

B (9:25)

Yeah. And this is something that we saw in the wake of the Syrian civil war when there was a large migration crisis in Europe. Currently there's a big focus on the EU level at increasing the number of returns of failed asylum seekers. The EU has all sorts of different ideas for how it's going to do that. And that's the deportation centers that we've seen. We've seen deals being struck with various countries in the region, in the Middle east and in Africa, to see people returned to those of origin more quickly. That is something that is high on the agenda for a lot of the EU's countries, particularly those that have large far right voting blocs. And they're seeing an opportunity to get tough on migration as a way of taking some of the sting out of the far right attacks on them as being too soft on migration.

C (10:16)

And it's worth Noting that these talks are happening just ahead of some European Parliament votes in a committee on a new EU returns law. And that proposal would be pretty harsh. It would not just speed up deportations of rejected asylum seekers and expand Europol's role in tracking migration networks, but it would also give police broader powers to do things like raids on homes hosting undocumented migrants, which is giving some kind of ICE echoes.

B (10:43)

Yeah. And the crisis in Iran will very much be hanging over this meeting today. At the moment, we're not seeing an increase or a big increase in the number of people who are coming to Europe from Iran or from the region in general, but it's certain, certainly something that those ministers will be keeping an eye on. Alrighty, Sarah, let's move on to our last story, and maybe it's my favourite one of today. It's about the European Commission's attempts to ensure intergenerational fairness. There's a new strategy that is expected to be adopted today, and it's being spearheaded by the Maltese commissioner, Glenn McAuliffe, by the way, in case you didn't know, the youngest member of the College of Commissioners. Did you know that, Sarah?

C (11:25)

I did. Just because, you know, we all kind of laugh that they gave the youngest commissioner the Commissioner for Youth and Sports job.

B (11:31)

It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it well. And what McAuliffe has been doing is he's been trying to ensure, through this strategy that everything the block does doesn't harm future generations. We're talking climate change, we're talking housing, digital policy, pensions, all of those things. And we're hearing that he wants to use AI to do this.

C (11:51)

Yeah. Our colleague Gerardo Fortuna got to test out the prototype. So, basically, the idea is that you would create a policy project, define the problem to be solved, set goals and budgets, identify the target population, and then this AI kind of crystal ball visualizes how the policy would perform over time. It's not formal yet, but according to an EU official, a tool like this could potentially support what we call impact assessments that every legislative proposal is supposed to go through.

B (12:22)

So I guess everything is now AI, Sarah.

C (12:25)

The bots are coming for the bureaucrats.

B (12:27)

Ooh, the bots are coming for the bureaucrats. Sarah, I actually wouldn't mind hearing from our listeners on this. What would you like to give AI out of your tasks and responsibilities? I don't know. What about you, Sarah? What's, like. What's something you hate doing?

C (12:43)

What do I. I mean, well, here's a little peek behind the Politico Curtain. We're supposed to write in American English, which is very easy for me, but many of the people who learn British English keep spelling things with S's that need to be spelled with Z's. And if I could have a robot go in and replace all the S's with Z's, then that would make my life much easier.

B (13:04)

I think I would make mine. I think I would make it answer emails about press releases that I don't care about. Now, we've got a little special treat for our listeners today. A friend of the pod, someone you may know, a certain Ian Wishart, has sent in a voicemail from Berlin.

E (13:22)

Hello, Zoya. Hello, Sarah. I'm in Berlin. I'm standing in the sunshine just by Brandenburg Gate. I wanted to tell you that the media here is full not only of Chancellor Mertz's visit to the White House on Tuesday night, but also what they're calling a super election year, because on Sunday, it's the first of five state elections this year, which could really, I think, take the pulse of German politics and gauge how close the far right AFD is to real power. Sunday's election is in the state of Baden Wurttemberg, where Stuttgart is the home of Mercedes Benz. It looks pretty neck and neck between Mertz's CDU and the Greens. They've both been in coalition with each other in the state till now, but in Germany, people who know German politics more than I do say there's a real fear here about the Iran war leading to rising prices again, and voters may be in the mood to punish Mertz for that. The AfD almost only won't win in Baden Wurtenberg, but it is on course to pretty much double its showing from the last time to 20%. And this, of course, in the heart of the former West Germany, a long way from its traditional eastern heartlands. Right, I'm off for a currywurst juice.

B (14:32)

Well, Ian, good luck with that curry versed. May it be delicious. Before we go, Sarah, could you give us a little preview of what's coming up on EU Confidential tomorrow?

D (14:41)

Yeah.

C (14:42)

We're talking to Mark Leonard, who's just written a book about how we're in an era of quote, unquote, unorder, this idea that some societies are ready for chaos and some definitely are not. We'll also have our former colleague Reem Momtaz, who'll join us to connect the dots between the egg, you and the Mideast.

B (14:59)

Sounds fabulous. Well, I'm looking forward to that episode, listeners. Thank you for joining us Please send us your voice notes. Send us your texts. The WhatsApp number is in the show notes. Leave us a review. I would love that actually. Five stars would be so great. Especially when I'm sick. I'd like to see a bunch of new 5 star reviews. Recommend us to your friends, recommend us to your family and see you on Monday.

C (15:21)

Get well soon.

A (15:34)

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