
Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni faces an uphill battle in next year’s Italian election.
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Zoya Shevdolovic
Good morning. It's Thursday, June 4th, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is fond, as officials realize Italian Prime Minister Giorgio Meloni might not be that bad. Actually fond, fond. Also on the pod at a meeting In Luxembourg today, 11 countries are going to issue a call for Russian tourists to be barred from holidaying in Europe. And what on earth is a spritz misto, the mystery cocktail that has the EU capital scratching its head? Stick around for some answers and maybe a recipe. I'm Zoya Shevdolovic and with me today is Ian Wishart, our senior EU politics editor. Ian, you've ever. Have you ever had a spritz misto before?
Ian Wishart
No. What is it?
Zoya Shevdolovic
I think it's Aperol and Camparis Ruin the podcast.
Ian Wishart
We're supposed to that at the end.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Damn. Well, now there's no reason to listen. I think it's Aperol and Campari. If I'm not wrong. Our Italian.
Ian Wishart
What's wrong with a nice cup of tea?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Nothing. It's perfection. Tell me how to make it again for all of the steps. All right, Ian, let's talk Italy first. We haven't done that much on the pod around Rome, so it's time now. There's a reason why we're talking about Italy. It's because Georgia Maloney is facing election in 2027. That's the other big election. It's not just France that's going to the polls and she's in kind of a bit of trouble.
Ian Wishart
She is. The economy in Italy is not doing so great, is it? And it's been really badly impacted by the war in Iran, basically because Italy, I think, more than any other country in Europe, imports so much fossil fuels, and that's obviously been hit by the blockades in the Strait of Hormuz, and the Italian economy has really gone downhill.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. And that's not the only thing that's been hitting Italy. It's also been Trump tariffs. And you would think that Giorgia Maloney, who is one of Trump's big admirers in the eu, one of his closest buddies, you would think that that might stop Italy.
Ian Wishart
Are they close friends now, though?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Well, friends of convenience. I mean, I guess Donald Trump doesn't have a lot of friends. He doesn't go to his son's wedding.
Ian Wishart
So why we're talking about this today is because of the announcement, the economic announcements that the commission made yesterday.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah, that's right. So this is in the spring semester package. And basically what happened was that the EU rulebook limits budget deficits to 3% of economic output. But there's going to be a concession that the Commission has announced, assuming it gets up, which is going exempt some green investments from those rules for public spending.
Ian Wishart
So just for our listeners, in case they don't know, the budget deficit is the difference between how much you spend and how much you bring in each year. And as you say, the EU rule says you shouldn't be spending more than 3% of GDP on that. There are some exemptions that are taken into account and a big exemption is, is now defense or a lot of defence spending. So that doesn't count against your. Against your figure.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. And now the commission says also when it comes to this green spending as well. That makes sense. Yeah. And it's not just Italy. Look, Spain is also a winner from this and there are a few countries that have been lobbying, but Italy, Giorgio Maloney herself wrote a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, really making the case for this exception to be made. So I think it is considered a big boost for her.
Ian Wishart
So we're kind of thinking that might be because the EU now wants to keep Meloni on board. It wants to actually help her.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. And I'm old enough to remember before the Italian election where Georgia Maloney swept to power, there was a lot of fear in Brussels about what might happen
Ian Wishart
if far right leader, that kind of thing.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Exactly.
Ian Wishart
From the apple cart.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. And she's from a big country. Italy is a heavy hitter.
Ian Wishart
It's one of the Euro skeptic.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah, yeah. But it's one of the EU's top economies. It has a lot of heft in the European Council summit table. So it was a real worry before she was elected. But over the years since she came to power, she has kind of shown herself to be quite a pragmatic leader and she's done a lot of pragmatic things. She's kind of become part of the mainstream very happily and a player.
Ian Wishart
And actually going back to talking about Trump, you got the impression, didn't you, that. That Brussels was kind of using her as a sort of intermediary with the American president.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah, that's right. And there's something else that one of our colleagues has picked up on, which is this idea that actually, you know, the commission is looking at 20, 27 and it's seeing that we may get a far right president in France, Jordan Bardella, potentially, or Marine Le Pe, if she wins her court case. And basically there is a view among some circles in Brussels, here, around town, that maybe if Maloney is embraced by Brussels and shows that it's. It pays better to play ball. Yeah, to play ball and to work with Brussels, then maybe that might serve as a good role model for Bardella when he comes in and you can
Ian Wishart
imagine them thinking that she could soften his edges perhaps.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, people don't know that much about how he's going to be when he gets the presidency. I mean, he is an MEP, so people do know him around 10 town.
Ian Wishart
So, Zoya, do you get the impression that you, you talk to a lot more diplomats and officials than I do, that are they already thinking of A, are they already thinking of the French presidency and B, are they thinking what can we do to moderate a supposed far right French president? And this is one of the tactics. It's, look at Maloney, look how she's played with us. You know, look what, how we help her, basically 100%.
Zoya Shevdolovic
I have had this very conversation with diplomats over the past week where everyone was looking at those polls which we talked about on podcast, Where Jordan Bardella vs. Jean Luc Melanchon in a runoff in the French election will mean that Bardella will get the presidency. That really focused some minds around town. And in my conversations that I've been having with diplomats that keeps coming up, that they need to figure out some tactics to figure out how to pass legislation if Bardella comes in and he acts as a spoiler. And there's this great sense of relief that Viktor Orban is gone. You've got Peter Magyar in Hungary who's come in and opened up a world of possibilities when it comes to decision making at the EU level. And they are squarely looking to see what's going to happen if Bardella comes in and becomes a similar spoiler.
Ian Wishart
It is interesting, isn't it? And perhaps Orban is the exception here. But it is interesting how politicians who try to get elected like to bash Brussels, like to be Eurosceptic, but when they get in and they start working with the eu, they maybe moderate their policies a little bit.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. But not only that, they then lose support, which is frequently what happens? So, look, we'll see what happens in that Italian election. We'll see whether this gives Meloni the boost she needs in the polls.
Ian Wishart
Shall we go back to Ukraine, then?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Let's do it. Ian, my favorite topic.
Ian Wishart
There's this St. Petersburg International Economic Forum today. That sounds very exciting. Are you going?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Look, I don't think I'd be welcome at Russia's answer to Davos. Yeah, it's a big event. It's an annual thing that Putin loves to throw. He's scheduled to speak later day, actually. People might remember. You know, he sits on stage, he takes questions from the audience, where he
Ian Wishart
talks for ages and ages and ages.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Literally everywhere, he talks for ages and ages and ages, as Donald Trump learned when he gave him a history lesson. Yeah, he. He loves it. He takes questions. They're all planted. It's all bullshit. But the point is, it's his annual kind of favorite big event. It used to be a lot of EU politicians would go there, business people would go there, they would court Putin. It was an opportunity to really get in his ear. But since the war in Ukraine started, it's become a very unattractive event, shall we say, for Europeans to be seen at. And the Ukrainians have made it even less attractive because yesterday they targeted St. Petersburg while the opening ceremony was happening with drones. And there was, like, clouds of smoke. Yeah. While the. While the thing was opening up. So the reason we're talking about it is because there's a fair few Russia things on the EU agenda right now.
Ian Wishart
Yeah, there's something about European visas for Russians. And also we're talking about the next round of sanctions on Russia, aren't we?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah, we are. So let's start with European visas, maybe. So this is a story that I've been looking at, and basically there's a group of 11 countries, most of them are EU countries, but not all of them. Iceland and Norway as well. Nine others, they've come together and written a letter addressed to the European Commission, basically saying, can you please crack down on Russian tourists going on holiday in Europe now?
Ian Wishart
So my question for you, Zoya, seeing as, you know, that part of the world, what sort of effect would it have on the average person in Russia to think, I can't get a visa to come to Europe? Does that cause a backlash? Does that cause more antagonism against Putin?
Zoya Shevdolovic
So there are roughly. There are over 600,000 visas that were issued to Russians last year, and I think roughly half a million were for tourists. So that gives you a sense of it it's not exactly a huge number of Russians who are traveling, but it's a question of what, which Russians are traveling. It's the rich elites in Moscow and in St. Petersburg who are making their way over. And it's also people who have family in the EU and who want to come visit. So I think it would affect some pretty key demographics for Putin.
Ian Wishart
Right. So. So Europe isn't really trying to target the average Russian middle class family who just wants to come on holiday to Warsaw or whatever.
Zoya Shevdolovic
I think it's also targeting those. I think the whole point that Europe is trying to make is Russians should also feel the cost of the war because Ukrainians can't leave the country. You've got Ukrainian men of certain age prevented from leaving the country. You know, there's no flying out of Ukraine currently. So I think the idea is just to strangle everything. Yeah. And. And get the Russians to feel that pain. And I think that's also part of these strikes that we saw in St. Petersburg. The whole point of it is to make the war visible, to make it to give friction to an average Russian's daily life.
Ian Wishart
Yeah. So this letter will be looked at in the justice and Home Affairs Council meeting in Luxembourg today. And then we're told that if there's support for it, it could be fast track, the summer.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah.
Ian Wishart
And what do they want to do? Reduce the number of visas given or.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Or they want fewer visas to be given. They want more tracking of Russians who do come to the Schengen Zone. Because this is about the fact that when you come to Europe into the Schengen Zone, then you know it's border free travel, so you can go wherever. And there are some concerns that some of those tourists aren't really tourists, that they're members of the secret services and so forth. There are concerns that they are trying to intimidate some. Some of those people are trying to intimidate European journalists, for instance. So the idea is track them better, reduce the number of them coming here and just really tighten the screws.
Ian Wishart
And briefly, the other thing is about work, work going on on the latest round of sanctions against Russia.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. So this is the 21st package of sanctions and European diplomats have been racing to get agreement. There are some things that they haven't quite agreed on just yet, but the hope is that they want to at least sign off on it at the latest in June at the European Leaders Summit, which is happening on June 18th, June 19th.
Ian Wishart
They want now.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Indeed.
Ian Wishart
And our colleague Nick Vinica this morning is reporting that Four Chinese companies might be on the list. Chinese companies who have apparently been helping Russia. So that's another way of sort of really strangling the Russian economy, I suppose.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. And basically the previous 20 rounds of sanctions hit some of the easier, lower hanging fruit. The EU now wants to really tighten things up when it comes to the facilitators of Russia's war. And the Chinese companies in particular have been a target in the past. But Europe has sort of not been super keen to get too aggressive because they're concerned about repercussions when it comes to Beijing retaliating. But now they're trying to sort of say, okay, we're going to, we're going to do it now.
Ian Wishart
Fancier cocktails?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Oh, yeah, always.
Ian Wishart
What's your favorite?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Oh, I do love.
Ian Wishart
Is there an Australian cocktail? Is there a.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Have you heard of a grasshopper?
Ian Wishart
No.
Zoya Shevdolovic
It's disgusting.
Ian Wishart
What's in it?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Creme de menthe. Oh, fell. Yeah, but, yeah, so I'm not gonna go with that one. I, I quite like a Cosmo.
Ian Wishart
What's in that?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Vodka, cranberry juice. I don't know. What's yours?
Ian Wishart
A gin and tonic. Is that a cocktail?
Zoya Shevdolovic
I think so.
Ian Wishart
Very simple one, isn't it?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah.
Ian Wishart
It's very easy to work out the ingredients in a gin and tonic. Why are we talking about this?
Zoya Shevdolovic
God knows. It's because June 2nd was Italy's Republic Day. And our colleague Gerardo Fortuna went to these celebrations in Brussels and he reported because he is, has a sharp eye. He does that. Mep Brando Bannafay. He spent a, a large part of the party trying to convince the bartender to make him a spritz. Mr. But the Barten had no idea how to make it.
Ian Wishart
So what is it?
Zoya Shevdolovic
Well, it's a sort of a, a spin on the classic apparel spritz, but with Campari, as I said earlier.
Ian Wishart
You did say that earlier.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah.
Ian Wishart
So you've ruined the, ruined the cliffhanger.
Zoya Shevdolovic
The surprise. Yep. Yeah. And, and Gerardo is a big, big fan of these things. He's got a, a recipe in today's Brussels playbook, so if you want to find out how to make it. And we actually, we spoke with several Italians because they really wrote in on them.
Ian Wishart
There's a lot of them.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah. And they told us that it's not universal. It's a northeastern Italian thing.
Ian Wishart
Anyway, WhatsApp us. Tell us your favorite cocktail.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yes, tell us your favorite cocktail and perhaps your favorite place to grab a spritz in Brussels. Diornes Saga I'm a fan of Negroni. Oh. Oh.
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Margarita always.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Do you like a spicy mug or a regular mug?
Red Bull Announcer
Spicy mug.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Spicy mug. Folks, we asked for birthday shout outs and you've delivered. We have a birthday special birthday shout out to Dave from Texas.
Advertisement Voice
Wow.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah.
Ian Wishart
Happy birthday. Yeah, I like this WhatsApp we got from Brendan from Dublin. Yeah, he said he was skeptical about this switch of the podcast today. We've been going, what, a few, couple months now?
Zoya Shevdolovic
February 10th. Not that I'm counting.
Ian Wishart
He says. At first he was saying, who is this Aussie woman with a weird sounding name and what is she doing in my ear every morning? I have to say I thought very similar things, Brenda.
Zoya Shevdolovic
You thought that every day as I came into the office.
Ian Wishart
And on tomorrow's weekend, though, it's all about tech sovereignty following the release of the Commission's long awaited package on Wednesday.
Zoya Shevdolovic
Yeah, we've covered that earlier on the podcast this week, but you can expect a deep dive tomorrow. Folks out there like us, subscribe, rate us, tell their friends, tell everyone.
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Date: June 4, 2026
Host: Zoya Sheftalovich (Chief EU Correspondent, POLITICO)
Guest: Ian Wishart (Senior EU Politics Editor, POLITICO)
Duration: Approx. 15 minutes
This episode centers on Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, her political challenges ahead of the 2027 election, and how shifting EU rules could influence her standing at home and abroad. The conversation also explores the EU’s changing posture toward Russia—particularly regarding tourist visas and sanctions—and touches on the lighter side of Brussels social life with a discussion about Italian cocktails.
Context and Challenges
EU Budget Rule Changes – Political Lifeline
From Far-Right Worries to Pragmatic Partner
Setting a Template for Far-Right Leaders in Europe
Moderation and Political Costs
St. Petersburg Economic Forum & Drone Attacks
EU Crackdown on Russian Tourist Visas
New Round of Russia Sanctions
On Italy’s EU relations and Meloni’s moderation:
On the EU’s long-term political strategy:
On EU sanctions scope evolution:
On the realities of Brussels social culture:
| Time | Segment | Key Content | |-----------|------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 01:23 | Main Topic Introduction | Spotlight on Italy & Giorgia Meloni’s troubles | | 01:49 | Economic Woes in Italy | War-driven import shocks, Trump tariffs impact | | 02:35 | EU Budget Deficit Rule Changes | Green investment exemption, Meloni’s win | | 04:03 | Meloni’s Evolution | From fear to pragmatic partner for Brussels | | 05:24 | Preparing for a Far-Right France | Meloni as a positive template | | 06:34 | Populists Moderate in Brussels | Moderation and loss of support | | 07:07 | Russia: St. Petersburg Forum & Drones | Forum as propaganda, Ukrainian retaliation | | 08:26 | Russian Tourist Visa Crackdown | 11 countries call for restrictions | | 10:54 | New Russia Sanctions – China Companies | EU to include Chinese firms aiding Russia | | 12:06 | Brussels Life – Cocktails & Republic Day | Origins of the ‘Spritz Misto’; listener engagement |
The tone is clear, conversational, and informative, with a touch of humor and insider wit—perfect for policy-minded listeners who enjoy both EU politics and the lighter quirks of Brussels social life.
This episode provides sharp analysis of Giorgia Meloni’s precarious position, how the EU’s political and economic maneuvers may help—or hinder—her, and the broader European strategy in managing nationalism and Euroskepticism. It wraps by connecting policy discussions to the daily culture of Brussels life, exemplifying the human and quirky side of EU politics.
For more, tune in tomorrow for a special weekend deep-dive on tech sovereignty following the Commission’s major legislative package.